₦airaland Forum

wordtalk:
A Budget is part of a Financial Plan, and it is hard to see the substance of teaching only one aspect.

Most of the things you mention are also taught by many pastors who encourage tithing, and it is not 'breaking news' that they do not teach it as a "requirement", even though they encourage their congregations to tithe. That is a totally different thing from the anti-tithing campaign to argue all against any hint of tithing among Christians.

I would really love to know the kind of Church this guy worships at so I could worship there when time permits, this "utopian" kind of Church doesn't exist in the Pentecostal universe of prosperity/get yours in this life and the life after/give in order to receive, Cref and co don't preach that stuff neither do their "lieutenants"

Share the good news buddy!

Zikkyy:
Jo dey enter game from 89th minute due to lack of stamina. The man is one central defender that's so good at scoring own goals

Zikkyy: You go kill person for here one day oooo


I am not in the frame of mind to take viaro/pilgrim.1/wordtalk seriously any more than I would Pastor JoAgbaje, this guy says everything about the place he "worships when in Nigeria" but hasn't shared that information yet so some of us can check them out, what a way to witness that would be.


Anyone is free to do as he/she pleases with his/her resources, the only point some of us have argued against is the notion that if you ain't doing it, you've got to be robbing God, I don't know anyone that collects a tithe from the allowance they give their kids, we should go to Jerusalem or wait till the Temple is rebuilt to return to the old ways of worship shouldn't we?

I don't know today's Pastors to be in the class of Melchizedek but what do we know? None farmers like fishermen, tent makers, etc must have paid tithe, it was just not "recorded" LOL


Today's governments don't have any semblance of the Levitical system either!


Na waa waa waa for WAEC ooooo!

Joagbaje:
Clowns like you don't require intelligent response.

2 Timothy 2:23
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Why I go blame you? You have no answer to any of my questions so it is easier to retort to name calling, omase oooo!

Your kinds of "organizations" remind me of DILBERT cartoons, enjoy this one!

http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/00000/1000/700/1717/1717.strip.zoom.gif

Joagbaje:
It sure has everything to do with it. The old testament reference he gave had to do with tithes and offerings.

The pastor is not actually consuming tithes. It belongs to God. And the same way , tithes and offerings were used to run the affair of the temple . And welfare of ministers is only a part. Money given in church belongs to God. It's not pastors money.  Most pastors actually have their jobs and business and some few that are not allowed of God to do secular work are put on salary,Which still has to be approved for them by elders or G.O . According to the structure of their churches. It doesn't mean that the pastor collects tithes and spend on himself . The church money does not belong to a pastor. He is a steward.

You've got to be kidding me,

Nigerians sha! They live in "civilized" societies but still remain steeped in the old mentality, If you have to use SCAMS to raise funds to fund your excessive plans, it doesn't make it less sinful because of your reasons for doing so.

Pastor JoAgbaje don come again coming off the bench for viaro/pilgrim.1/(later day) Wordtalk .

Joagbaje:
It is christ that is the high priest who recieves the tithes not the pastors.

Pastor JoAgbaje: Kindly point to the Scriptures and show us where Jesus Christ who DID NOT COLLECT TITHES on his Earthly journey somehow gave that responsibility to pastors of the Modern Churches of Nigeria LTD.

Joagbaje:
1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 [color=#990000]Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.[/color]

Pastor JoAgbaje: I don't think you understand the CONTEXT of this quote because if Jesus Christ paid the ULTIMATE debt to free us from the BONDAGE of SIN and DEATH, aren't we the TEMPLE of God? Do you have another type of Temple in today's Christianity? Aren't we Royal Priests of God?

You wake up one morning, follow some jerry curled dude about and proclaim you have been called and now we are supposed to pay for you? Why can't you "eat" from the free will offerings since you want to be fed? Why must you impose a non-existent requirement on your flock?

Judgment day go though no be small.

Febup:
Ok, I will get you a visa and a ticket to come and see me in the US, and I can assure you that you will come back here to say "Actually that shows how BIG you are"

You need to add 10% processing fee (I mean tithe) of the ticket value or "azibalua" ain't coming to see you in the good 'ol USA.

Babylon is falling to rise no more!

Azibalua:
Tithing is not a giving, it's payment

It would be nice for you and your tithe MONGERS(masters) to show us your letter of appointment/offer letter where God replaced the house of Levi with modern day pastors, The new levites would then take over today's governments and run everything like they did in the past don't you think?

Get a JOB and stop driving folks away from the FAITH with your man made requirements that can't stand the test of the Scriptures.

God help you all!

God help the rest of us to recognize your kind from MILES and FLEE

Is it me or does "wordtalkt" remind anyone else of "Pilgrim.1" (wait for it) "viaro"

I think we've seen this Ecclesiastical gymnastics on NL before especially on the tithe threads.

Joagbaje:
tell them o. To some folks, church is seen as business. not knowing the many sacrifices ministers make just to reach others for jesus.

Pastor JoAgbaje don come again ooo

Your CEC has about 15 or so branches in the US, I would like to know the percentage of your membership that aren't Nigerians, 1% at BEST so who are you kidding here?


"My people perish for lack of knowledge, ", Instead of prosperity, our people need to pray for the Spirit of DISCERNMENT.

I trust Pastor JoAgbaje to produce the "endorsement letter", LOL@ Jesus Christ endorsed tithe!

These guys will stop at nothing to grab money that's not theirs to begin with using fear, curse of God, robbing God, etc to hoodwink a bunch of educated folks who should know better since the Bible is freely available currently to check things for themselves. They deserve to get jacked up for being too LAZY unlike the good people of Berea who fact-checked everything they heard from Paul and Silas.

If your "budget" is big enough to need LIES to foot the bill, maybe you need to downsize. There are no TEMPLES any more, we the Christians are the living TEMPLES of God,

Repent before it is too LATE!

Shalom.

NL and their moderators have to understand that we come here not because there aren't other options, this site can't be managed like other Nigerian stuff. I have enjoyed your postings and one would think the moderators are sharp enough to catch undue reporting coupled with a detailed investigation before banning a prolific member.

^^^ No mind them jare, that's why you call them "kalo kalo" gospel providers or business centers

tunnytox:
Statistics for what? The likes of you would even require statistics to believe that people who can't swim are likely to drown. Are you a professor of statistics?

He maybe a "Church administrator or accountant" for all we know.

Sicherheit:
If one more person types "incur God's wrath" in this matter, they will incur my wrath. What nonsense is this? These churches have managed instill fear in people's minds they are afraid to call them out on their rascality. The family obviously knows more than we do about what kind of "entity" RCCG is or they won't be demanding things that suggests RCCG is a regular business/corporation instead of a church.  

I loved this post!

Sie wie ein Löwe klang meines bruders


For someone whose username means security, this is a SECURE response.

Shalom.

This is the religion section,

trimwis:
tithing is scam

Don't mind them ojare, Only those that benefit from the scam can defend this SCAM, Majority pay it out of FEAR and the need to "belong" or be counted as "OBEDIENT" by "pastor, MOG, prophet" and maybe rewarded with "deacon" or some official title at some point. Is that the reason we worship and serve God?

You guys need to leave this "coogar" dude alone, he is on a huge roll here dishing out insults after insults as any true "christian" would,

You get him on one, he switches gears like someone NL folks remember well for being "regular combatants" with no commission. It is not funny when "believers" retort to name calling and other invectives to "buttress" or emphasize their points but then again, perfection we seek!

The early Christians took contributions, the rich among them sold their belongings to help out the other not so fortunate among them but that is not the main thing these days when there are Jets, SUVs, shining buildings, etc to acquire.

"Churches" "make profit" these days as coogar let slip in one of his numerous rebuttals yet Jesus Christ said "sufficient unto the day is the EVIL thereof", hhhhmmm something fishy!

The next thing we expect from coogar is his list of "MOGs" that are doing the right thing, I won't be surprised if this guy has been to all 50 states of the Union either, and found how the "poor" live,

Omase oooooo!


If Tithe was really the main thrust of Salvation, God would have sent Jesus Christ though the house of Levi as opposed to the tribe of Judah don't you think? Jesus was a Carpenter, Paul made tents, Peter was a fisherman, the list goes on and yet none of them were recorded to have paid tithe once in the Bible, something fishy?

The Levites have been replaced by "Governments" as every believer is a royal Priest, right coogar?

This "coogar" dudee is an interesting piece of work it seems, typical Nigerian this and typical Nigerian that, suit your self, I am not even sure i have spent up to three Months total in Nigeria in the last 22 years, but that's not the reason I decided to contribute to this piece.


Your dismissive attitude must really be full of "Christian values", "by their fruit ye shall know them, "?


Fela dealt with these kinds of stuff in "coffin for head of state & suffering and smiling" but you're probably too "young" to appreciate his whole body of work.

You guys use "pre Covenant Abram's" tithe, Malachi, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, etc referenced tithes and can go ahead and "pay" all you want "to receive all the blessings" (investment banking to some) but some of us know our God doesn't live in Temples made with human hands and that "where two or three are gathered in his name, he is there"

Let me just educate you about the German "religious tax", they only deduct that from you if you declared Christianity as your religion, and I remember folks claiming "frei denker" so as to escape that because they believe the Church take and take but that's a story for another forum,

The so called "successful Pastors" in Nigeria today would qualify for the rich man Christ told to sell all his belongings and give to the poor to follow him, Faith without works is DEAD, Nigerians should all be "prosperous" now with all those "claim it" abracadabra shows, God gave us a SIMPLE way to worship him--with all out heart and with all our SOUL,


You can't pay your way into Heaven(at least not the one I know of)

Shalom.

coogar:
i can now see you are not well versed in the issue of tithes.

tithing is a key ingredient but not the absolute practice in receiving heavenly blessings.
matthew 23:23 says woe to you scribes and pharisees, pretenders(hypocrites). for you give a tenth of your mint and dill and cumming, and have neglected and omitted the weightier(more important) matters of the law--right and justice and mercy and fidelity. these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.

so tithing alone will not bring the rewards you desperately crave if you neglect the other indices of the law.

Dude has got to be a pastor or an aspiring one!


In your previous post you mentioned having been to Countries that don't complain about tithe, Care to "educate" us about those countries? We would certainly like to know where those Countries are because people don't pay tithe in Germany-the home country of Martin Luther himself the father of the Protestant movement, so come on.

brainpulse:
@ dramenda
Your issue was like that of the pharisees whenn they came to jesus asking him why he should heal on the sabath day. he answered them that how many of them that have a donkey that enter a ditch on the sabath and will leave it to die, they never reponded and they went away.
let the spirit of the lord direct you to do that which is pleasing in the sight of the lord without robbing him and care for the need.

Brainpulse (what a handle!)

Was the book of Malachi addressed to Christians? Think very well before you regurgitate the same BS you're being fed in your local business center/chapter.

dramenda:
hello peeps,i have a tithe to pay,and an orphan came to me to help him/her out for her waec fee,the tithe money is only what i have left,if i give the money to the person,is my tithe accepted?i have spend all other money have with me,its only the tithe i have left.i need a spiritual advise,

First of all, you shouldn't be "paying tithe" as a born again Christian, you should be helping the needy like this WEAC fee orphan (double here since he/she is NEEDY and also an ORPHAN), widows, strangers, etc. These are the ones Jesus Christ CHARGED us to help, protect, left up, in addition to living a HOLY life that we might find FAVOR on that great day.

If there is anywhere Jesus Christ asked us to give 10% of our earnings to a "church"/pastor, I'll love to see the passage(s).

Anyone who's been on NL for a little time will attest to Pastor JoAgbaje's religious acrobatics which I know he didn't learn at UNIBEN, CEC university "exposed" him to a lot of antics one might add.

Nothing brings out the "NL religion section faithfuls" like TITHE,

Sports, entertainment, Worldly standards, etc are meant to DISTRACT the believer from what actually matters - HOLINESS AND SALVATION.


I am not saying one should be blind to his/her surroundings but it must NEVER interfere with what really matters.

This is a diservice to the good book of Revelations to say the least, hamas is way too inconsequential/small/atomic to factor into the discourse when it comes to Revelation 13 which deals with an "enterprise" class event rather than a narrow one as your post seems. Study more before responding or adding more information to your post.

Image123:
So what do we say of Jesus and Paul that the bible records to have expeRienced poverty, did it lead to 'more sin'?So what do we say of Jesus and Paul that the bible records to have expeRienced poverty, did it lead to 'more sin'?

The CEC bunch/Nigerian "MOG" worshiping crew don't have a full understanding or poverty nor of wealth hence Bible-twisting oles get them all the time. Greed at the lowest and highest levels-no nation can truly survive on those.

Digriz:
You are a big i.d.i.o.t, who told u that catholic worships Mary? your facts are all wrong.

Calling OP names doesn't address his points does it?

This is a new one, I haven't heard this one before but I will keep my ears open going forward to see if I can pick something up, MOG is the one that pisses me off the most, every believer ought to be able to call him/herself an MOG since Christ died equally for all of us and no one is more"special" than the other.

It is very HARD to tell those "under the influence" otherwise because they believe they are "blessed" because some pastor prayed for them rather than God's mercy. We need to keep them in our prayers.

It is and should be VOLUNTARY no matter what the "business-churches" preach as well as the percentage 10, 15, 20, 50%, etc

Are those not the same group of people patronizing his university since only THIEVES(for the most part) can afford to send their children there? This could be bad for both businesses now!

Joagbaje:
I don't mean to be critical, but it's possible to drive forward while looking at the mirror . We do it everyday.

The man Who compares himself with others is not wise.

2 Corinthians 10:12
For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Pastor JoAgbaje don come again ooooo, how can you drive and focus at the rear view mirror at the same time? I can understand looking before switching lanes or so but then again, it might just be one of those "miracles" that you talk about for you to multitask in a moving vehicle though I would pay not to be in front of you at anytime.

"Our eyes are placed in front because it is better to look forward than look backward, " (An African saying)

Pastor JoAgbaje:


Where in the Bible did Jesus tell his followers to speak in tongues? Does "Our Lord's prayer" look anything related to what Creflo is spitting below?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7cye4wzZVw



You people need to stop this grand deception that's leading people away from the FAITH.

As at the time of this post, CEC is working hard to create a new TIME ZONE, Those of us on the Eastern Time (UTC-05:00) will be able to hold hands with those on Pacific Time (UTC-08:00) and even those on the in Nigeria (UTC+01:00)


You people are good for entertainment, why do you get your facts? yookoos is already in China too abi?

Joagbaje:
It is wrong to make someone feel bad for not having. You should know Gods word for yourself not to feel bad. But at the same time you should nurture the desire to give. One thing is not having to give , another thing is being critical of giving. That will be a mistake . But if you desire to give , there will be a seed. because God always give seed to the sower. You give your way out of poverty.

2 Corinthians 9:10
10 For God, who gives seed to the farmer to plant, and later on good crops to harvest and eat, will give you more and more seed to plant and will make it grow so that you can give away more and more fruit from your harvest.

By the way why dont you have? Is it lack of a job or something? Or you don't earn much?

Pastor JoAgbaje don come again!

You didn't seem to read all of OP's original post and now coming with your own, "give your way out of poverty"? WOW! I am not surprised your own form of giving is only to a Church after all, your man CD said " if you sow time, all you will get out of it is a vacation"

Straight CASH homies, that's all the FAKE churches are all about.

@OP, you are not alone in your observation and how folks are in a hurry or preoccupied with their daily grind to even have time for the thing that really matter, praying, joining other believers to worship the Lord, study the Bible, etc.

I have seen folks spend a lot to buy a house because of one reason or the other only to have to take another job to meet the mortgage obligation and then you ask yourself if it is really worth it.