oduademonest:



Egbon, no need to insult. Tao hasn't been very polite, professional, and objective. We can disagree on analysis, but he/she has been very very objective.

I know you are not Katsumoto because Kat's is strictly a historian.

Now back to Ikedu.

The Ikedu stuff, assuming it once existed, wasn't written down? All the academic sources I have read, mostly Adepegba and Blier referred to it as oral history.

Still early Yorubas did not write anything down, it seems?

Do you have references?

I apprecated that s/he check the Bini revisionist. However, some of his/her claims her misplaced.

Ikedu was not written down but authors referred to it as 'sacred text' but none of these authors have provided a citation for these texts & neither have they provided details, they all just repeated the same things. Here in Ife, no one knows Ikedu. Even old Professors who are Ife indigenes never set eyes on the sacred texts nor found any Ife person that has heard it. Does this not bring the Ikedu claims into question.

Kats was not a Historian. He was a smart intelligent person. He himself alluded to not even being in the academia. The poster I knew to be Historian was Terracotta. I was active back in the days with these people so I'm familiar with them.

TAO11:


You try hard to give off the impression of being aware but you're just not. Anyone can make thousands of grandiose claims, but if they can't substantiate them, then they simply still amount to nothing.

Your primary claim that Ikedu does not exist, no one knows what Ikedu is, etc. is still yet to be backed up by any source at all, let alone an authoritative source.

You had bungled when you noted that every scholar cites Akinjogbin when they make allusion to Ikedu, and when I showed you that Cornelius Adepeba did not (but instead cited the original compiler of the text, i.e. a certain Odukoya) you ignored your bungle and attempted your failed damage control stunt to the effect that you don't know who Odukoya is. Lol!

And the specific cheap face-saving excuse you gave was that Cornelius Adepegba did not provide the footnote to identify Odukoya, even though the excuse is obviously ineffective in rescuing you from the mess that every scholar cites Akinjogbin.

However, Cornelius Adepegba actually didn't make any attempt in the first place to give a footnote to the name "Odukoya" on that page 83 of the Journal in which his "The Descent from Oduduwa" was published. So, the question of the footnote not citing Odukoya doesn't come up.

In fact, how was he to cite an ancient compiler of an ancient text? Did you really expect that the Odukoya would have included the year of his publication, ISBN, etc. in his compilation? You're just being a joke that you obviously are!

And Cornelius Adepegba wasn't doing a critique of Ikedu when he alluded to it (contrary to your seeming suggestion along those lines), he was actually alluding to it as a piece of supporting evidence to the thesis that "monarchical system of government had been established in Ife before Oduduwa".

You actually confirmed my assertion that you're just being an intimidated and insecure person when you noted that my "comment about a Professor in the US is" false. You are just a bored rookie looking for relevance.

I did hear from Bukola Oyeniyi, PhD who is a faculty member in the Department of History at Missouri State University, United States when he once said that he has worked with people from the North-Eastern Yoruba border (i.e. our people in Kogi, Yagba, etc.) who are well versed in the ancient Ikedu tradition.

If you really want to confirm from him if he said that or not, I am willing to give you his contact if you drop your contact detail. In fact, you may check up his contact details on his page on the University's webpage. It's public information. You could be invited over if he finds you interesting, but perhaps on the condition that you're willing to learn.

And it is not only Cornelius Adepegba who did not make reference to Akinjogbin. Bukola Oyeniyi in his joint publication with Professor Toyin Falola also made allusion to Ikedu wherein they touched on the mythology of Orisanobu-Oghene and his slave Oko.


You seem to be so stuck in your imaginative ideas which you have no evidence whatsoever for.

I expected a much better come back but well, with every post one can tell History wasn't what you went to school to be trained for; rather it is a new hobby you picked up.

Wht kind of statement is this?

In fact, how was he to cite an ancient compiler of an ancient text? Did you really expect that the Odukoya would have included the year of his publication, ISBN, etc. in his compilation? You're just being a joke that you obviously are!

How was he supposed to cite an ancient compiler? Are you serious? Wow.

Also, if History was what you were trained in school you would not keep harping upon 'evidence' which to you is a written source. A written source is regarded as a secondary data which is considered unequal to Primary data which in my case is oral source.

The Ikedu you're talking your neck out over has been used within the context of Ife history. Nothing else. And I, in my previous post stated I have asked around & no one here in Ife knows Ikedu - my sources are within my maternal, paternal lineages [both which hold important places in Ife] & across board in Ife. Rather, what is know here is 'Oro Ife' which is used by Monle, certain classes of Isoro & a few others. Secondary data are solely to help build knowledge or a gap in a study, it is not the ultimate. Sitting behind a screen and dishing out references is not a 'thing', get up for your butt & come down here to conduct an investigation.

I said the Ikedu is non-existent because it is unknown to Ife people whom the Ikedu supposedly talked about & also, all available research discussing Ikedu in whatever measure have not been able to provide a citation to the suppoaed 'ancient text'. Not Akinjogbin, Not Adepegba, Not Blier, Not Falola. Everyone seems to regurgitate each other, no one has provided the complete or atleast, detailed information on Ikedu. If Ikedu was indeed in existent, the desperate Alaafin or Olugbo will readily pay millions to have it.

Also, you are quite immature with your reference to insecurity. It is an infantile thing to assume I called you out on your US professor because of whatever imaginative thinking you concocted. Rather, I called you out because no Professor would take such risk to identify Ikedu that is said to speak primarily on Ife with Okun/Yagba. Wetin be Okun/Yagba with Ikedu that Ife which is its primary concern does not know. Do you see your logic now?

TAO11:


Smiles ...

I had anticipated your folly and bungle and you didn't dissapoint with your so-called evidence.

It is obvious even from a cursory reading of the statement you submitted as evidence that the statement in no way supports your imagination that the Story of Noah borrowed or copied from the mythologies.

Rather, the statement shows in very clear terms that (if anyone ever borrowed from the other considering the similarity) it is the cult of Mithras that actually borrowed from the Judeo-Christian Stories. And that is the point I had defended when I written earlier on that:

" The submission of experts is that, as far as the Story of Noah (and the Flood of course) is concerned, is that it is a true historical event which influenced many myths around the world, and not the other way round. "

The statement you provided noted in relation to the Flood and the Ark among other common similar stories that:

" There are many point of resemblance between Christianity and the cult of Mithras. One of the REASONS for this (i.e. for the similarity and commonality of their stories) is that the Persian mystic INVADED Italy during the first century AFTER CHRISTIANITY ..."

How then in your warped mind could "A "possibly have borrowed an idea from "B", if their point of contact wasn't until after A had formed the idea?

Use your upper!

Again, are you ready to learn or not?

Damn, I give up at this point.

You mean to say the cult of Mithras [Zoroastrainism] and the Egyptian cult of Horus both which predates Abrahamic cult by hundreds of years copied from the Jewish cult?

Did you see the part where the author said that Christianity and Mithra share similarities because Persian army invaded Italy - the seat of Roman Catholicism and as such, the alegories/stories of Mithra diffused into Christianity?
O o ni brains mehn.




Read further.

TAO11:


Oga, all you did was simply repeat your empty claim without providing any evidence.

Again, cite me the prominent scholars whose position you just echoed above because you are no authority, so you should substantiate your claims.

It is pointless to go into a debate, dialogue, etc. when the co-debater is simply stating their personal opinion while passing it off as facts, lol.

Cite your references backing your claim that there is nothing like Ikedu, lol!

Moreover, I had noted that Cornelius Adepegba alluded to the text and he didn't have to cite Akinjogbin, smiles!

Also, I have personally heard from a Professor in Missouri State, U.S. who knows and has worked with people from the Noth-Eastern border of the Yoruba region in Nigeria (i.e. our people in Kogi, Yagba, etc.) who are well versed in the ancient Ikedu tradition.

Overall, I observed a sense of insecurity in your tone. I think you should put that to check. Please work on it.

Your delusion is major and your knack for personal-esque conclusions is out of this world.

You are not a very bright person. You are one of such internet historians with no training in the field but jump on topical issues and act like they're in the know of what they say. Meanwhile more damage is being done by their delusion induced ignorance. I know your comment about a Professor in the US is a lie; no Professor who nows his/her onions would make such a careless and unfounded statement.

The first person to inject Ikedu into Ife/Yoruba history in writing was Akinjogbin. His interpretation of the data wasn't very broad and that was as a result of the meagre information which he could gather on Ikedu. No one in Yagba/Okun speaks Ikedu and neither it is a tradition that affects or connects to them in any direct measure. Ikedu, according to Akinjogbin, was a sort of 'Awo' literature taught and learnt by initates of the Ikedu school. In essence, it is not a knowledge available to the public. From lexicostatistical data presented by scholars like Akinkugbe and Oga like Professor Ogen, Ikedu is said to be closely related to Ugbo language and in turn related to Ife dialect. Be that as it may, the fact remains, no one, not even the Olugbo and Alaafin who spend millions on gathering data in order to boost the position of their throne and further denigrate the Ooni's stool have been able to lay hand on any Ikedu text or speaker. Prof Akinjogbin claimed to have collected Ikedu in Ife but no one seems to know what Ikedu is, rather, what we have here is regarded as 'Oro Ife', an archaic type of language/terms spoken in Ife which is now closely restricted within certain Awo circles. Guess what? It shares no similarity with the Ikedu presented by Akinjogbin, Olugbo and several other writers who have made reference to it.

Professor Adepegba in his work referred to one Odukoya but the footnote of the paper does not provide a citation of that Odukoya. This implies two things: the Ikedu collected by Odukoya was irrelevant and incosequential in the argument of the paper OR the Ikedu collected by that Odukoya was non-existent. And consequently, the Prof had to mention it in passing.

Y

TAO11:


Lol!

In which of these fields did you investigate the Noah Flood Story?: Geology, archaeology, oceanography, or anthropology.

What is your name? Cite me your publication with detailed refrence in relation to your investigation of the Story.

'Ngbeke' feeling funky! You better talk if you're willing to learn or not.

And yes I used to be like you at least seven years ago.

I was busy marauding like you with the unproven claim that the Flood of Noah never occured, of course without any evidence to back the claim, just as you haven't been able to adduce even one shred of evidence

-- I mean just one shred of evidence that could resist objective scrutiny, lol!

You're simply socialized by pseudointellectual pressure into the unproven idea that the Flood never occured, you have absolutely no evidence that can stand the test of scrutiny.

LOOOL demanding much?

Check my previous post to you, attached her photos from Manly P Hall's work, a compediun of several well researched thesis on in

TAO11:


Lols, you actually have no idea.

I really can figure out your level of awareness on this because I used to be where you're currently at. But the difference today is that I proceeded even further.

The idea that the Story of Noah was borrowed from Mesopotamian myths (and that the Jesus Story too was borrowed from myths) are some of the ideas that almost every young person who have at some point (at least) contemplated non-theism (agnosticism, atheism, etc.) must have stumbled upon in one way or the other.

Some others cling to the idea just because they seek to abandon and dissociate from the organized Abrahamic faiths at any cost, reasonable or not.

The idea is actually itself the myth which is unfortunately popular and accepted by young people hook, line, and sinker without hesitation and scrutiny. They simply want to be seen as different and "free-thinking" which is not bad, but the sacrifice for that shouldn't be objective research.

The reality, however, is that geologists, archaeologists, goe-mythologists, anthropologists, oceanographers, et al. who have conducted investigations on the Noah Story do not share in the foregoing youthful unsubstantiated sentiments of the young and 'emotional' non-theists, even though the unproven hypothesis of borrowing from myth sounds and appears "woke".

The submission of experts, as far as the Story of Noah is concerned, is that it is a true historical event which influenced many myths around the world, and not the other way round.

I can submit a whole thesis on this position to you in few minutes if you're willing to have an engagement, but prior to that you will have to assure me that you're willing to learn.

You are highly deluded. You do not know me - heck, you do not even know if I work in any of the fields you've listed above. Just to impress your fans and yourself, you went on a tirade of nonsensical conjecture.

TAO11:


Lols,

Please cite me the prominent scholars whose position you just echoed above.

You see, you need to be very aware that you're no authority. So, you really have to substantiate your claim with reference to your source.

Modified:

However, just for the sake of informing you, experts such as Cornelius have made reference to certain content of the surviving text (which even bears the name of its compiler) again and again.

You do not know if you've come to my field, you need to really relax. I think the kids you've engaged and impressed is beginning to gas you up. You're beginning to go out of what you know - you're reaching. You're an history ethusiast who probably began to dig into secondary sources [written history] as a result of exposure to Nairaland. Smh.

There's no Ikedu anywhere. Every scholar has cited Akinjogbin. None has laid their hands on written or oral data which Professor Akinjogbin consulted. In fact, their analysis have been greatly limited to what Professor Akinjogbin gave in his work. Again, there's no Ikedu anywhere. No one speaks it. Not even the boisterious Olugbo or Alaafin who are desperately trying to prove something have been able to give us detailed Ikedu beyond what Professor Akinjogbin tinkered with.

You may want to focus on these kids you're impressing who have erroneously compared you with the great Katsumoto.

TAO11:


Lols, you actually have no idea.

I really can figure out your level of awareness on this because I used to be where you're currently at. But the difference today is that I proceeded even further.

The idea that the Story of Noah was borrowed from Mesopotamian myths (and that the Jesus Story too was borrowed from myths) are some of the ideas that almost every young person who have at some point (at least) contemplated non-theism (agnosticism, atheism, etc.) must have stumbled upon in one way or the other.

Some others cling to the idea just because they seek to abandon and dissociate from the organized Abrahamic faiths at any cost, reasonable or not.

The idea is actually itself the myth which is unfortunately popular and accepted by young people hook, line, and sinker without hesitation and scrutiny. They simply want to be seen as different and "free-thinking" which is not bad, but the sacrifice for that shouldn't be objective research.

The reality, however, is that geologists, archaeologists, goe-mythologists, anthropologists, oceanographers, et al. who have conducted investigations on the Noah Story do not share in the foregoing youthful unsubstantiated sentiments of the young and 'emotional' non-theists, even though the unproven hypothesis of borrowing from myth sounds and appears "woke".

The submission of experts, as far as the Story of Noah is concerned, is that it is a true historical event which influenced many myths around the world, and not the other way round.

I can submit a whole thesis on this position to you in few minutes if you're willing to have an engagement, but prior to that you will have to assure me that you're willing to learn.

You are highly deluded. You do not know me - heck, you do not even know if I work in any of the fields you've listed above. Just to impress your fans and yourself, you went on a tirade of nonsensical conjecture.

Amujale:


That is your opinion, nobody is here to discuss Ikedu with you.

Assuming you really want to learn and understand then you can always visit the right places. Becoming an apprentice to a good priest or visit the many royal palaces and seek their attention.


Thank You

LOL.

You do not even know me or where I am from yet you speak of visiting the right places. The computer/phone screen really affords people one serious delusion yo!

TAO11:


My brother, the learning is mutual. I have learnt a lot from you too recently.

I am not Katsumoto tho. Lol!

Katsumoto must be someone I also should be dying to read from, and I am humbled that you think of me in such an apparently generous and respectable manner.

I was also motivated to investigate Yoruba history for similar reasons. The empty chest beating from our Ubinu kins is just so annoying.

And I became embarrassed for them when thorough investigations showed their very low place in relation to the Yoruba civilization.

Regarding writting, it's not that our father's didn't write nothing down. They actually did.

The reality appears to be that writting (among the ancient "Yorubas" in early Ife) was either an extraordinary skill which only few privileged ones could acquire (hence the scanty surviving materials), or it was that an imperialist contact wiped off the ton of surviving materials.

But truth is that there was a system of writing among the ancient "Yorubas" in early Ife, centuries (if not millennia) prior to our adoption of Latin/Roman script for Aa, Bb, Dd, ...

This writing system, which encompasses the history and philosophy of Ife is known in early Ife as Ikedu. The surviving text is unpublicized for certain reasons, but some experts have been able to access it.

It is in this text for example that we find that the name for the Supreme Being among the people of ancient Ife to be the proto-word Orisanobu-Oghene which, to some extent, goes to bolster the Yoruba mythology that everyone (including the Binis, Urhobo, Esan, etc.) spread out from Ife because these peoples words for God are obviously derivatives from, or cognate with this Ife word. In other words "Osanobua" from "Orisanobu"; "Osa" from "Orisa" or "Oosa"; "Oghene" being unchanged in Urhobo; etc.

Regarding those mighty words penned down by those historians, anthropologists, and archaeologist, I sometimes feel like crying whenever I encounter those words. They make me feel really proud and aware.

Imagine the reaction of Leo Frobenius when he encountered the Olokun Head. Imagine his funny but yet soothing conclusion regarding who he thinks the ancient Ifes really are. What about about the reaction of Willliam Bascom in the Illustrated London News that year when another set of finds were excavated?
Enigmatic! Yoruba indeed is King!

On slavery, my personal opinion which I adopted very recently is to refrain from absolute judgement of the worldview of ancient peoples especially through the lenses of our modern times.

We have only recently in modern times evolved to handle our affairs with more humanity than ancient people did.

I beleive their actions (in the context of slave trade) should not be viewed as evil in such gross and absolute terms (of course they also can not be absolutely excused), because to have expected them to manage their affairs exactly in accordance with our highly evolved moral standard of modern times will be to be asking for too much from them, and will also mean that we ourselves have not really grown, developed and evolved since then.

Human societies in ancient times are almost by default at war with each other, such that concious efforts and real steps have to be taken by at least some of them for them to be mutually at peace with each other -- i.e. to not attack each other. It was by default an expansionist milieu.

Our societies today have evolved in almost the direct opposite direction, in the sense that societies are now by default at mutual peace with each other, and concious effort and real steps have to be taken by at least some of them for them to be at war with each other.

We have only recently been able to develop global conventions (such as the Geneva Convention, the Hay Convention, etc. to which many nations all over the globe are signatories) on how nations should treat prisoners of war, etc. in the most respectable and humane manner possible.

But ancient peoples (including the different independent and sovereign "Yoruba" groups) who were by default at war each other do not understand why there should be any restriction on selling their war captives especially when there is a readily available market for such people.

They wouldn't be able to phantom such restrictions if we are to be honest, and to be fair to them. They simply could not imagine any such restriction.

So, whatever immoral acts (by our modern standards) they engaged in (particularly slave trade now in this context) if viewed in the light of the foregoing background may cause one to judge them quite fairly and differently from how we used to; but if we must be imposing our modern standards on them (in this particular context of slave trade) then we will simply be hypocritical and be demanding for too much from them.

There's no Ikedu anywhere, my G. The first person to present that thesis was Prof Akinjogbin who was only able to gather excerpts of it from Oral Tradition. No one speaks or knows about Ikedu. Not even Ife or Ugbo.

wowcatty:
And the yadayada litany continues.Why not answer your own question if you know it and if they are different from mine? Asking questions you yourself don't know the answer to shows you are a hypocrite. You are still saying the same thing and will keep getting the same response.

Before you claim knowledge highground, you need to be on it first, you have no idea what you are talking about, just trashy sound bite-filled nonsense.

Yoruba ancient communities have always have Obas and then Abores, and you can't because of modern day shame of being looked down by different religions now bolt away from traditions of Ooni being a priest, usurping Alaafin, it will never work. You will just continue to divide Yoruba because some people can't sit by and watch such injustice take footholds. My great grandmother time knew Alaafin to be Oba and Ooni to be Abore, and no modern day phenomenon will change the fact that Awolowo just did his friend and fellow Orisa adherent Ooni Aderemi, a favor by passing over Alaafin to make him the governor general. That was just a bump in the road, not here to stay, the old Alaafin may be quite but a young one won't and that's when you will know that swapping positions is dangerous.

If Abore tradition is no longer needed, then scrap it, we already have emperical paramount Oba, alase ekeji Orisa Alaafin, not propaganda bootleg oba who has turned his shrine office to a palace just cos of envy of Alaafin.

Get your head out or your ass, your dumb propaganda will only work on those who don't know their history and willing to learn. Ww will never see Ooni as Oba let alone a senior Oba, he's Ooni, an Abore. Propaganda se ti.

You are so fixated on this Abore nonsense that you do not see how badly you are embarrassing yourself.

Ife is structured in a pyramid way, make I show you:

Ooni
Isoro Agba Ife

The Isooro were the Kings of each autonomous communities that preceded Ife. The Kings of these autonomous towns are the deified Orisa we have today. The Isoro are 201 in number but 16 of them are the foremost. Their obligations are to head their autonomous towns & head the festival, initiation, procession & whatever has to do with the deity that started their clan.

Agba Ife are also autochthonous people who supported the creation & developed the administration of Ife. Each of them is tied to an Orisa.

The Ooni [& the four ruling houses] is the only clan that is not derived from any Orisa & is not tied to any Orisa. Instead, the Ooni has an 'Abore' in the person of Obadio who is the Chief priest of Oduduwa & the head of Oduduwa's section of Ife called Idio.

P.S: I didn't mention the Modewa because they are of servant progeny who serve in the palace but are tied to provifing services to Oduduwa/Oranfe & Obatala/Ifa.

kunmiiii:


Yes, you try...very worthy of note, the embolden was very enthralling because it was totally rebellious to the narration that has been propagated and accepted by a lot of people.

Nice one, thanks!

In other words, the "Yorubas" had a god of thunder centuries before Shango-Alaafin Oyo, or even his father Oranmiyan, was born. Shango Alaafin Oyo became named after this man because this son of Oranmiyan was thought to possess similar temperament as this great man who lingers in the memory of the "Yorubas".

Across Yorubaland, it was Jakuta [fights by hurling stones].

In Ife, it was & is Oranfe. Ora is Ife's dialect of Ara. Hence Oranfe [Thunder in Ife].

TAO11:


With due respect sir, the Noah Flood story is an actual and true historical event.

What experts have disassembled is its universality.

Experts have come to the realization that it is a famous local deluge in the distant past in some corner of the world, rather than it been a universal cataclysm.

The existence of several flood myths among different ancient cultures of the world, all over the globe (including among the ancient people of Ife) does not undermine the Noah Flood account, rather it buttresses it. So say the experts.

We can explore this subject further if you're open to the duscussion.

Cc:

forgiveness
kunmiiii

Actually the Noah story isn't true. It was adopted from the mysticism of other cultures just like Osiris & Horus story was adapted to the virgin status of Mary & saviour-murder status of Jesus. You just need to read a little bit more.

wowcatty:
Oduduwa is not the source of Yoruba, source has nothing to do with Oduduwa who met people in Ile Ife. And the there’s no such thing as “crown general” in Yorubaland, what we have is generalissimo which is Aareonakakanfo. Ooni is ABORE which is Orisa’s attendant, priest, custodian or butler, he’s not even an Oba at all. But money politics, betrayal, lack of respect for ancient traditions and sense of injustice in an average Yoruba is what brought us to this point. The Ooni stool is cursed because Abore’’s shrine is now called Ooni’s palace and the confusion has been from one Ooni to another, or is it not Ooni Sijuade the Judas who collected 30 pieces of silver on Abiola? And the new Ooni is on his way to even be worse than that. Slaves have a way of showing themselves.

'Ignant' much like your Alaafin/Oyo peoples?

Mention just 1 Orisa that Ooni is in charge of, just one or better still, mention one Orisa & I'll tell you the clan of that Orisa as well as the facebook page of the head or a son of that clan for verification. Heck, you could even come to Ife to verify.

You & your ilks have bandied this nonsensical story for years without recourse to how Ife is structured.

If anyone is a slave then it should be Alaafin. Eru, slave, lon ko ila. In Yorubaland, slaves are the ones with the type of marks found in the Alaafin family. Read C.O Adepegba's work. Also, if any King should be regarded as inferior in the entire Yorubaland then it is the Alaafin's throne: 1. The empire it controlled crumbled & was chased like a bitch to his friend's town which he usurped & sidelined his friend's family. It is like saying the Queen of Britain is superior to Arab Kings because Britain once ran the whole world or say the Roman King is superior to British Queen because Roman was colonized Britain. 2. Alaafin has no fecking crown! There are 16/32 Kings with original crown, Alaafin has 'zero' crown. In fact, the throne has a 'crown' made of sese efun [white beads] which is sacred to Obatala; who knows if Alaafin was the son of the slave woman who became a votive of Obatala?

Feck outta here. Ife is still the head of all Yoruba towns & the Ooni is still the head of all Oba Alade in Yorubaland in Nigeria & in the diaspora.

You are welcome.

NPComplete:


Foolish ignorant nonsense.
So because u know 2 guys who were Masons and scientists then it means scientists need esoteric nonsense to achieve results? It's like saying because I know 2 guys who where Rastafarians then Rastafarianism is needed for scientific achievements. Where do u guys get Ur foolish arguments from?

Albert Pike & Manly P Hall were not scientists. They were craftmen who wrote history/contributions of the study of esoteric knowledge to the emergence of Scientific revolution, Industrial revolution and every other revolution from the Middle Ages that set the stage modern age starting from post war years. People who led the sciences, from Gallileo to Newton were taught the art of esotericism which led to their 'discoveries', thinkers of the Renaissance to the enlightenment giants were into esotericism and that had effects on what they contributed to mankind. Mention any achiever past and present, investigate their background, they were/are esoteric men.

If it is so, why aren't Ur babalawos achievers? Why are they usually poverty-stricken bastards that work from one bush and hype up their achievements. I am sure Einstein would have been a Mason too according to u. Even atheist scientists have pastronised a spiritualist before. Foolish dumb arguments.

This is a dumb statement from a man who presents himself as someone in the know. How could Nollywood images be a yardstick for your judgement? How many Babalawo do you know? 'Poverty-Stricken bastards', I hope some Awo won't see/hear you say it and make it the lot of you and your generations to come. There are Babalawo who are wealthy, not having the interest to flaunt is not the same as being poverty-stricken. It is like saying the non-affluent presentations of professors means they are poverty-stricken bastards, igorant much? There are several well to do Babalawo, science rests on investigation, being that you believe in science then you should take it upon yourself to conduct a study rather than rely on your TV screen.

Why don't u use the esoteric knowledge u have and win a Nobel prize? Is it only shouting "Ogbo ato" u know how to do? U think it is by ascribing powers to urself online that we make us take u seriously? Bring proof.

Wole Soyinka is an Ogun adherent, a devotee whose life is directed by Ogun, he won a Nobel Prize. Is that good enough? You are just an angry person with so much outbursts. If you had taken your time to investigate, as science requires, you would have known there were several esoteric people who are renonwed in their various fields. There's a lawyer of Igbo origin who has a somewhat unblemished record in election litigation, guess what, he's a Mason. Those who led every facet of the newly independent Nigeria were esoteric men - Sir Adeyemo Alakija, Sir Adetokunbo Ademola, Chief Oladeinde Lawson, Nnamdi Azikiwe, the Sardauna, Ahmadu Bello, Ladoke Akintola, Obafemi Awolowo, Chief Fernandez - to mention a few.

It takes exceptional impotence and low self-esteem to come online and be ascribing great works of other people to a belief u share while u urself are just a husk of a man with no footprint. It is intellectual parasitism.

Dude, you do not know me. You need to relax. The core of atheism is investigation/proof; you seem to lack the ettiquete for both. You are one boisetrous person full of tantrums. You need to relax, read and process before you 'speak'.

FOLYKAZE:


Eji re bi

Awo o ni te, Awo o ni faya

Ke pe o

Ase.

MXrep:

The places you are mentioning were his abodes during transition from benin to ife

He was a local, Oke Ora was a community where he lived grew. He wasn't alone. He moved with the inhabitants of that place to Idio. He was from Ife, he only changed locations but with an entire community & that affected the social & political arrangements they had and conflict emerged as a consequence.

Folykaze

Baba, you get time. An oldee Awo once told me that everyone can not be 'awake', if that happens, there will be problems. So it is best to let some sheeple remain just that, sheeple.

I have followedthe thread & you have actually tried. In the end to me, these 'ignant' folks have just had you going in a cycle or say, have you on repeat. You may just want to leave them alone, you are not on their plane & you may just want to keep them where they are, below you. Just my suggestion.

What I know is, most of this pseudo-educated people have NEVER in their lives carried out a scientific experiment or observation to prove anything. They just sit on their butt cheeks, scurry the internet to see if the white man has said something then pick it & run with it. They are not independent thinkers. They won't take up your challenge to go out there to observe/test & neither do they have the senses or resources to carry out a test of the scientific nonsense they say. They are just couch potatoes waiting to be fed by the West & think they look 'smart' or 'modern' when they talk. For instance, see one talking about charged cloud like s/he conducted some type of research & came to that conclusion to gleefully regurgutated what the white master said.

In the end, most if not all of them have patronized a magico-spiritual service provider be it an Awo, Pastor or Alfa at one point in life and some still do. So they know what you speak of, they just like to deny like most hypocritical Nigerians.

Awo, what these people do not understand is that, the finest minds who led scientific revolution [and all other endeavours we enjoy today]that set the stage for today's scientific advancements were initiates of esoteric rights. Their achievements in sciences with which they are known today were derived from esotericism. If you can, read Albert Pike & Manly P Halls's works to see renowned scientists [and thinkers] who were Masons & other rights and how their 'crafts' contributed to the knowledges they gave to the public.

Ogbo Ato, Awo.

Ekaaro.

degamemaster:
Satan of sokoto and Mr iberiberism

Looool this one here killed me, I swear.

X

FOLYKAZE:


These are Ugbos people under the rulership of Olugbo. Ugbo is not same as Igbo. Ooni was particularly referring to Ugbo who were supporters of Obatala who fought against kingship of Oduduwa. Ugbo people raided Ife and cause too many tensed atmosphere unti[b]l Moremi from Offa, a relative of Oduduwa (through marriage with Oranmiyan)[/b] came into the picture and exposes Ugbo secret to Ife people which ended the crisis.

This is why Ife people see Moremi as Hero and Ooni built a stature to honor her. While Ugbo people see her as betrayer and disloyal wife who exposed their secrets.

While Ugbo acknowledge they are Yoruba, they despise Ife for overthrowing Obatala and installing Oduduwa. Ooni is simply trying to appeal to them so that the long time enmity could end.

The supremacy also appears in Yoruba creation story where Obatala couldn't finish creation task because he was drunk, and Oduduwa took it up and finished it. Till date, Obatala adherent don't take alcohol because it became a taboo to them.

From the relationship stance with Obatala, Ooni is definitely referring to Ugbo of southern Ondo state, not Igbo of Eastern Nigeria.

Moremi was not from Offa. At the time she existed, Offa had not even been founded. She was from Yekere town in Ile-Ife. She was an Ife woman, as in Ife proper.

Isokun is the umbilical cord.

MXrep:

The places you are mentioning were his abodes during transition from benin to ife

I don't understand your contention, the man was an Ife man with a family in Ile-Ife that exists till today.

Oduduwa was from Oke Ora [Ora Hills] in the eastern part of Ife. Ife East LGA covers the area even. Oduduwa was a local not a migrant from Bini or Mecca. He was a proper Ife man whose family is in Idio section of Ife where he lived & died.

To the Bini: did the lost Bini wanderer who ended up in Ughoton come with relatives to Ife?

ConcernedYouths:


Your submissions can easily be predicted to have been birth out of an irrational cognition. The author[b] in his write-ups[/b], merely identified the problems bedevilling the people of his home-town, and not the gibberish you are unleashing here.

From the questions raised, your overcast ratiocination is crystal-clear. The author only let-out the INEC population statistics, and the surrounding challenges. If such a community with the prodigious counts like such is having a local government, is it then a crime? If such is given the opportunity at that realm of affairs, then it is deliquent? LGA level? This gave me a tip about the writer whose reasoning is done from the anus. If you don't know history, then ask.

Hitherto, in the author's write-ups, did he linked the said "bondage" to Ife, but the inability to think straight of their "inwarders".

You could have made enough sense with your sense of English but it made a mess of you. The write-up, is enjoining about working across party-length.

If not for your blind obsequiousness, you could have read the author's opinion with your eyes wide-open. Where categorically has he stated anything about Ife or no Ife, except a charge to work from party-based loyalty to programme/personality-based loyalty.

Let me just conclude with President Muhammadu Buhari's letter to Chief Olusegun Obasanjo, "Get well soon". And I reiterate GET WELL SOON!

I'm a long-term internet bully and I can run you out of the page if it comes down to it but I'm too busy and will not get in the gutter with you.

However, I'll implore you to write in simple and clear English. Yes, you want to 'blow' grammar because, like the average, half-baked Nigerian graduate, you think it makes you look intelligent. Read through your own post again and see how you've made a solid mess of English. Whatever academic certificate you have should be withdrawn, you are a total embarrassment to whatever schools you passed through.

While it is legal and very reasonable to clamour for a LGA, it is also important to assess the history of the geographical area for which LGA is being requested. Before an LGA is given, the history of the area is considered. Also, in the time past, the LGA question has been a matter of contention between the two peoples [who are highly intermarried and very related]. In essence, what I am saying is, the matter of LGA is a touchy topic and your post, which was 'demanding' an LGA could contribute to setting fire to the inter-group relations of the peoples who have managed to re-build the environment and peaceful co-existence over the years. What those two groups need is integration abeg, take your pseudo-activism elsewhere. It is not for Modakeke nor Ife people.

I wish you all the best.

cornoil:
Why are you u so irrational and hateful?

Irrational and hateful from asking basic questions that would have cleared up my confusion and probably many other people? You are the hateful one who sees hate in the well-meaning actions of other people. My questions were asked to see if the author preaches divisiveness and possibly, course towards conflict. You could see words such as 'blood', 'fight' and such in his post.

What exactly is the crux of your verbiage?

Apart from being unnecessarily prolix, your write-up lacks a clear direction. In addition, it contains certain contraditions that makes it quite unintelligible.

What exactly are you complaining about?

1. That you want a separate local government for Modakeke, a quarter within Ife?

2. That you want a shot at the leadership of Ife East LGA?

3. That Modakeke have never held political positions in at the LGA level in Ile-Ife?

4. That you are still in 'bondage' and Ife is responsible for that?

5. That your candidate in Accord Party lost and Ife is to be held responsible?

6. That elders in Modakeke defected and it was Ife that caused it?

7. That there were/are no Modakeke folks in APC and PDP?

8. That there are no Ife in Accord Party and it is solely a Modakeke fold?

9. That Ooni preaches peace and you want to continue to key into that with your fellow Ife brothers, some whom you may even be related to?

10. That despite Ooni's peace messages, you want to fight for the sword with sweat and blood? In other words, you are far away in Ondo but want to incite conflict in Ife?

Ayajmaster01:


You and Your generations will suffer this statement of yours, if you have issue with your fellow human being, does it need you to talk ill of a prophet of God? You are a disgrace and waste to your generation

kehinde1588:

Must you insult prophet of God?
You have issue with the northerners not Islam. You guys talk about tolerance yet you come on social media to show you intolerance by insulting other peoples religion.

A prophet of an Arab god within Arab culture that has no space for you, a black man. Your own culture has its own prophets for its own god yet you are here cursing someone else who has a right not to recognize the Arab prophet and god you think is concerned about you, a black man. Smh.

dollarsplenty:
If Gods (as you put it) are not the same, why did bible translators use diffent names for God in different bibles? Why not having a unique name for Supreme God throughout the Universe? Are we saying some cultures have lesser Gods with the attributes of Supreme God attached? if an Ibo man says Chineke, and you ask him, who or what it means, he will tell you the Supreme being with all His attributes attached, the same thing as a Yoruba man's description of Olohun Eledumare and Hausa man's Ubangiji Allah. If God really created men in different Nations and Cultures, then He also created His identity as names in those cultured.

my G.

1. Translation of bible/quran/Ifa into different languages with local parlance for God in the target culture being used is for proselyting conveniences. Take a God, tear away its original attribute, graft the qualities of another God into it & you'll make it easy for people to convert. A notable example is Esu, God's messenger deity in Yoruba culture had its name grafted over Satan, a Jewish folkimage with totally different qualities.

2. Why there is no universal name for God is because we have thousands of cultures that perceive God differently & as such, given God a name usually along the lines of that perception.

3. Yes, in certain instances, what is the attribute of a God in one culture is an attribute of a deity in another. For Jews, God created earth, humans & animals while for Yoruba, Obatala [not God] created human & everything. Look at such features in Khoi, Xhosa & other Southern African culture in comparison to God in Asian traditional religion. Go further and examine God in Native American religion against God in Indian religion in Asia etc.

4. Your analogy is flawed. Saying Chineke, Ubangiji, Olodumare are the same is a very pedestrian thought. While Allah in Quran & Yahweh in the Torah are very different, these cultures you drew your analogy from have been heavily influenced by these Abrahamic religion. To get a better concept of God in Ibo, Hausa & Yoruba, You'll need to ask an Ibo practicing traditional Ibo religion of Chi divinity not those into Christianity; you'll need to question a Hausa maguzawa, not the Islamist & you'll need to ask a Yoruba Awo. These are the people who will tell you characteristics of God in their native religion and you'll see that God in Ibo, Hausa & Yoruba are different entities operating differently.

Hadampson:


Yes @the emboldened

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD*

Culture aside. All the deities play the same function as Jesus Christ to Christians and Prophet Muhammad to Muslims.

They believe those dieties play intermediate role, that is, they are the way to Olodumare. Same goes to Christianity and Islam.

But if you look at it from another perspective, Most Christians have attributed divinity to Jesus Christ which i think is very wrong. God who is the creator of heaven and earth, the creator of mankind, the creator of Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad SHOULD be the only one to be worship and praise all the time.



Shalom

You'll need to randomly select cultures across each continent then investigate the attribute of God in each culture to answer the question.

Hadampson:



Ignorance is a disease. Allah is an Arabic word for God. Can Jesus who is one of the creatures of God be greater than God.

The same God in English is different in many languages

Gott (German)
Jumala (Finnish)
Dieu (French)
Dios (Spanish)
Deus (Portuguese)

Can you say it with confidence that Jesus is greater than all the above mentioned.... They only mean the same thing which is God.

Instead of you being a religious fanatics, why don't you turn your fanatism to Nigeria and be a good ambassador of Nigeria ?

On the flip side, nobody has ever been to heaven before. So, saying all these things is nothing but a beautiful NONSENSE

Your own ignorance was not being able to figure that languages do not only give different names to 'God', they also give 'God' varying characteristics.

While Allah may be Arab for 'God'. Would you say Allah in Arab culture and Dios in Spanish culture or say Olodumare in Yoruba culture have the same characteristics/attributes?

While you may be correct with your position, you should also know that there are as many 'Gods' as there are culture. Every culture has a concept of God which is never the same.