₦airaland Forum

In a sense, I kind of agree with Kambo here, but still, the degree is very very important because of the maths, exposure, experience and numeracy among other things that cs offer. I still think the degree should stay. Dont be lazy.

OLAADEGBU: Someone Asked: "Why did God order the killing of an entire people group? That’s genocide."

Answer:

God didn't just kill a group of people He killed the entire human race, except for eight people in the Noahic flood. You should thank Him for saving them, because without them, you wouldn’t be here. You will also die because God has ordered your death sentence. However, He will grant everlasting life to those who repent and trust in Jesus. www.NeedGod.com

guy, why stab yourself in the back? Why start a thread like this that can't get you anywhere?

DK Jaleel has given you a great reply...

plainmirror: Shaaaarap my friend !
You are yet to answer my question. I repeat, can you independently explain †нэ theory behind 'psychokinesis' ?

Perhaps you can also look into this gist360.com/2013/07/scientific-facts-that-prove-the-bible-is-true/ at your leisure.

nothing like psychokinesis, There is no scientific evidence that psychokinesis or telekinesis are real phenomena<<from wikipedia

your link contains articles as deluded as you are

Is something good because god commands it, or does god command it because it is good?

Case 1 (The former):
If something is good because a god commands it, then terrorism as commanded by the quran, and slavery and genocides as commanded
by the bible are good, and should be considered as everyday act.


Case 2(The later):
If god commands something because it is good, then goodness is exclusive of god. Meaning goodness exists separately from god. Then
it is not a god who defines goodness for us, but morality exists separately from god, which is the atheistic take on the matter.

This question has been asked to numerous Christians and Muslims philosophers who have always had no definite answers.
The atheists on the other hand, are just having a good time.

JMAN05: Because we make that statement from scientific point of view. nothing comes uncaused from nothing in the physical realm. But in the spiritual realm, which science cant say anything about, something can exist from nothing. Supernatural power is now involved while science deals with only natural. That supernatural power exists has been admitted by sincere scientists during an experiment involving ESP. You can explore that if you like. Something can come uncaused from nothing when you talk supernatural.



Again it is with the intention of proving to scientist that there must be a supernatural power that made Christians employ the bolded statement since it is a scientific fact that nothing comes uncaused from nothing, so an intelligent supernatural power must have kickstarted the first thing to exist in the physical realm because it is unthinkable to assert that something can come from nothing in the physical realm. This science agrees. BUT you cannot use that principle in the supernatural realm cos science cant explain the supernatural.

What we want to establish is that scientifically, nothing comes uncause from nothing. If so, how then did the universe appear? that will lead us to establishing that something supernatural started the process. You cant escape it. But dont use that principle in the supernatural cos science cant explain anything there. the impossibilities in the natural can be achieved supernaturally. I dont know if you get the point. Science is about nature NOT 'supernatural'. But we want you to believe that 'supernatural' exists.



He interferes.

Everything didnt come from God. unless you be specific. I take your everything to mean everything.

pathetic!

JMAN05: God didnt kill himself. the doctrine of trinity is not biblical. the sacrifice of Jesus is made to God to relieve humans the false step which brought the penalty of death.

what? i hope christians see this.

striktlymi: ...and that is your argument? You sound like one using Hellfire to threaten another instead of addressing whatever ish logically.


#Welcome back though!

Well, sorry but your reply is nothing to make sense of... this time, your lake of knowledge of how stuff work in nature makes this debate unnecessary to continue.
We know that cells are not conscious, yet connections of them bring consciousness. Electrons are not electricity, yet movement of them result in a charge.
Consciousness did came from unconsciousness energy, but it is not a day's job, neither is it six day's job, it takes billions of years, and this is not the final state of the change.
We dont need a conscious god to exist, because natural selection was sufficient for us, and because the compulsory need of a creator for our existence also makes compulsory the creator of this creator.

And to say evolution was "created"?

striktlymi: The brain or Energy which comes first?

What brought the brain into existence?

Without Energy will the brain even function?

Answer those questions and you would get my response to your post above.

I think you know the answer, and i hope you see how the answer contradicts your very belief. First we have energy, then we have consciousness, never the other way around and never a constant path, meaning we dont have a god, and we dont have a conscious energy.

striktlymi: With all the connections in the brain, can the brain make itself conscious? If your answer is yes, then how? If your answer is no, then it follows that the brain and its billion connections in themselves do not hold the secret to consciousness. Consciousness is brought about only by something this conscious Energy can give.

Energy only powers the consciousness bought about by the brain. Without a brain, energy cannot bring about or have consciousness. Do not confuse yourself thinking you are being wise.
Its like a computer, it has to be powered by electricity to function, but electricity is not the function it performs, and electricity does not have a word processor, etc in it, yet it powers word processing and graphics.
So energy does not contain consciousness just as electricity does not contain word processors, but they both powers them. That should do it, that should make you understand your fallacy, and probably drop this irritating idea of a conscious energy.

striktlymi: How does transformation change purpose and I am trying to understand the relevance of the statement above.

You serious do not see the relevance of that? Well its simple: The fact that things change destroys purposeful creation. Because purposeful creation require things to retain their original configuration, and so retain their original purpose. When a chair changes to a table for instance, its purpose as a chair has been destroyed. So the fact that nature changes destroys any purposeful beginning it could have been thought to have. Hence, nature does not have a purposeful beginning that would suggest a mind.

striktlymi: Who said consciousness ends with brain misconfiguration? Consciousness is forever.

how ignorant, making a claim without no iota of supporting evidence.

striktlymi: The next thing you will say is that Energy is too simple to cause everything into existence and hold their existence.

its the 4 forces of nature that causes and hold in place.

striktlymi: But there is evidence of a particular Energy that caused all things to exist? Is an eternal Energy a state of mind?

You talk as if you understand what caused the universe. (note i didnt use "know", but "understand". You already claim you know, a god, which is just pitiful.)

striktlymi: What you are saying is that Nature just brought consciousness from out of the blues?? Note that this Nature you talk about is driven by Energy...Anyways, no one can give what he or she does not have. If Energy does not possess consciousness, it cannot give it.

That is where you miss it again, energy does not give consciousness, it only powers it.

And dont forget you are the one saying eternal and complex conscious energy came out of the blues. I say consciousness result from brain configurations, just as graphics can come from a computer by programming, but the computer is not really the graphics, neither is the electricity that powers it. So consciousness is not energy, but energy powers it.

So dont claim I said what i didint.

striktlymi: I have demonstrated that for Energy to cause anything to be, it must have a demonstrable will or force if you like. It can do nothing otherwise. To have a demonstrable will is to be conscious, hence consciousness is not just a property of its own but an attribute of this eternal Energy. Its similar to saying that eternity as it relates to Energy, is not just a property of its own, it is an attribute of Energy.

Sorry but you didint really demonstrate anything, you only made pathetic claims of a conscious energy.

You believe the very thing you so desire to refute.

You claim that our consciousness must be created, while you spend your time believing in an even more complex but uncreated consciousness.

When will you activate your faculty of thinking? And more important, when will you become sincere with yourself?

striktlymi: Finally, some time for this...



The bold is incorrect...

Man is not created simply because he is conscious. There are a lot of things that seemingly lack consciousness but are created. As I have mentioned before, man and other conscious beings created became conscious because there exist a conscious agent who was uncreated.



In effect, this is your argument...

Energy existed of itself...
Energy caused everything in existence to be, including this billion of cell connections in the brain...
Energy is responsible for the consciousness in man and other created conscious beings....
Energy is neither conscious nor have the capacity for consciousness.

I hope you now see the contradictions? ooman, the fact remains, if Energy is not capable of consciousness, there is no way it can bring about consciousness.



I hope you do realize that evolution is a process which was created? If you say evolution requires no creator then you are saying that we have two things that are uncreated: Energy and Evolution which of course is not correct. Without Energy, there won't be anything like evolution.

@Bold: That is exactly my point. Man is conscious, hence he needs something with the ability for consciousness to create him....if that process goes on ad-infinitum then it would only mean that this conscious agent extends to eternity. The only thing we agree extends to eternity is Energy, hence its consciousness and I have already posited that this conscious Energy is what I call God.



Take away Energy from that process of natural selection and tell me what you have left.



I have addressed the bold already.



I am the one who is supposed to be arguing the above...

I agree that evolution is not just some random event like some Atheists wants folks to believe. It is guided by Energy and for Energy to be able to guide this process, it has to have some sought of demonstrable will which implies consciousness.



Lol!!!

The above is very funny..."randomness as controlled by Evolution"?? My dear ooman, evolution in itself cannot control anything...it is a process that is guided by Energy. Energy gives meaning to evolution, not the other way round.



The above is like asking me to demonstrate how Energy is eternal. Can you demonstrate it? I have tried to show you how impractical it is for Energy to possess the ability to give consciousness without itself having that characteristic. This should suffice for now.



I have explained why the demonstration you seek in concrete terms is impractical. Maybe you should show me how practical it is to demonstrate that Energy lacks consciousness.



What guides that change and conversion if not Energy? Which still gives credence to my argument that Energy possess a demonstrable will.



My guy, this Energy in its pure form was what caused everything into existence and still holds everything in existence or if you will: "powers everything". If we take away Energy, there is no existence. The flesh we have was forged by Energy...so realistically, it is not just about powering but holding everything in existence. That's why we are all connected...Energy aka God is the link.



Guy consciousness is an attribute of Energy just like Eternity is.



Let me explain this...

Potential Energy has its source from this conscious Energy that brought all things into existence. Existence cannot come about with just potential Energy. If your argument is that Energy is just Energy i.e dormant until converted into use then you are saying that something made use of Energy to create the Universe. This still is incorrect.

We agree that Energy is uncaused i.e uncreated and it is the only thing that extends to Eternity. If Energy is the first cause and it is 'dormant' or simply put: awaiting something to use it or transform it, then you are saying that there is something that either predates Energy or caused it to be. We know this is not correct.

Energy existed of itself, Energy drives other processes aka it is the first cause...an ability to drive other processes or cause other things to be shows that Energy is not just dormant even in its raw state...it is an active force. It has to be in order to cause existence in man or hold the Universe in existence. This also demonstrates that Energy has to be conscious.



"Dams power Energy conversion"?? Where will the dam be without Energy? Without Energy, there would have been nothing like a dam.



The brain or Energy which comes first?

What brought the brain into existence?

Without Energy will the brain even function?

Answer those questions and you would get my response to your post above.



Lol!!!

I have already addressed the above. Energy exists, it caused all to be, it holds everything in existence, we are all offshoot of this Energy and whatever we use to power anything and that thing are from Energy....we are all connected and the link is God aka Energy.



Let's take another approach....

With all the connections in the brain, can the brain make itself conscious? If your answer is yes, then how? If your answer is no, then it follows that the brain and its billion connections in themselves do not hold the secret to consciousness. Consciousness is brought about only by something this conscious Energy can give.



No!!! I believe I have explained this before. The difference between the consciousness noticed in man and say the unconsciousness noticed in rocks is DEMONSTRABLE WILL this conscious Energy possess. Because there is a will, this Energy can determine what it gives consciousness to.



Sorry but that's not what the debate is about. If you want to discuss the above, create another thread for it.




How does transformation change purpose and I am trying to understand the relevance of the statement above.



Who said consciousness ends with brain misconfiguration? Consciousness is forever.



The next thing you will say is that Energy is too simple to cause everything into existence and hold their existence.



But there is evidence of a particular Energy that caused all things to exist? Is an eternal Energy a state of mind?



I have addressed the above previously.



What you are saying is that Nature just brought consciousness from out of the blues?? Note that this Nature you talk about is driven by Energy...Anyways, no one can give what he or she does not have. If Energy does not possess consciousness, it cannot give it.



I have demonstrated that for Energy to cause anything to be, it must have a demonstrable will or force if you like. It can do nothing otherwise. To have a demonstrable will is to be conscious, hence consciousness is not just a property of its own but an attribute of this eternal Energy. Its similar to saying that eternity as it relates to Energy, is not just a property of its own, it is an attribute of Energy.



I have explained the above before and in my explanation I said that the reason why everything is not conscious is because this Energy has a demonstrable will. It can decide what it gives consciousness to or not.



I have addressed the above before.

your state of self delusion cannot be cured

mumu mugu.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.



When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)



You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.



Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)



Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.



The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

perfectgen: @ Codemaniac, I have sent you a mail in the address supplied by you. I will be looking forward to hearing from you.
@ Ooman, I still don't have your email

biosoftinc@gmail.com

OLAADEGBU: Let me put it into proper perspective to you. Mosquitoes are known to have killed more people than those killed in world wars, how about that?

what an evil god... creating mosquitoes to kill people...

Striky, how is it going?

if its a god who truly did this, the he is really jobless....

ajayikayod: Actually, u r d one who carries god in ur head who is yet to reveal itself to u but working in u. U r just contradicting urself in all ur claims. Did u missed any of ur foundation classes. I ve told u ur Prophet Hawkins knows better.

ok

Joshthefirst: God gave you laws that you couldn't keep. Smh. So he should reduce his standard and start all over again.

I tire.
Keep blaming God for your sinfulness.

so your god gave me, a man, laws of his own (a perfect god's) standard and expects me to be able to fulfill it?

You are ignored henceforth....

Joshthefirst: the law brings condemnation because no man has ever fulfilled it but Jesus Christ. He never lied or stole or profaned or looked at a woman lustfully. Because we have not fulfilled this law written in our consciences, we are condemned. We have sinned against God, our consciences bearing witness.
We stand condemned. We deserve it.
But God in his mercy sent Jesus to save us from our guilt and sin. He took our punishment for us. That is the gospel. If you believe, you're saved. Born again into Gods kingdom a holy and perfect child because of Jesus Christ

Well stop blaming the law, because your god gave it, meaning condemnation comes from your god. Your god gave laws that no man can fulfill, then blame us for not being able to fulfil it, providing the excuse, called jesus, as a way to get us into intellectual slavery for ever.

Because your god gave laws that we cannot fulfill, he therefore brought us condemnation. So stop wasting nairaland space and shut the heck up

Joshthefirst: its not what you think ma'am
He doesn't think he needs salvation from sin, therefore Jesus doesn't make sense. The gospel sounds foolish.
For Jesus to make sense to him, he must first see that he is guilty of sin and guilty before God. Only then will salvation make sense.

Jesus said it himself

in order words, i am condemned before god, therefore xtianity brings condemnation than love. Or maybe I should say, it brings condemnation first, then love..

Joshthefirst: sin is breaking Gods moral law.

and how am i doing this?

ok, am available, just PM me or drop your contact...

Joshthefirst: no sir, its because of sin.

ok, what sin?

Joshthefirst: no. Christianity brings salvation and God's love. You're already a condemned and guilty sinner.

look, its simple. Why am I condemned? Its because am not a xtian right? Thats why xtianity brings condemnation than love. Without xtianity, am not condemned, but with xtianity, I am condemned as an atheist...

Its the illiteracy of religion that you are beginning to see. Continue to think, and soon enough, you'd realize that when it comes to a god, there is really nothing to think about because gods do not exist.

Joshthefirst: that was what the law brought for them. Gods judgement. That is what your sin will bring for you.

ok, so dont tell me xtianity brings love and salvation, it brings death and condemnation more often than it brings salvation and love...

Joshthefirst: ^^^
Woooooooww bless God!

Yes. Our hope is sure and stedfast in Christ Jesus. We already see the reality of God's life in us as we walk in godliness, we see it now. We'll see it in the world to come.

Blessed be the name of the lord.

mumu

Joshthefirst: Christianity brings love and salvation to man from God.

tell this to the Amorites and Canaanites etc that Yahweh commanded their genocide...

Secularist: Good analogy!

I love your signature: "Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people." Its true...

Logicboy03: Imagine you telling me that

a) A construction had a maker
b) Human beings have a maker
c) Everything has a maker

only to contradict yourself
d) God has no maker

and this thread is destroyed.....

ok, late but am a strong atheist, am certain gods do not exist just as am certain that flying pigs do not exist....

ajayikayod: Atheist Evangelist ooman,
I m surprise u agreed wit d Op in ur 1st statement and then made a blunder again in ur last statement. i tot d Op made it clear that in ur holybook ur Prophet said God is "not technically disprovable but is very improbable". (inherent confusion in statement sha). Hmmm, truly logical.

Sorry this took a long time, but its better late than never, and besides, i have something to clear

Assuming I believe that there is an invisible Flying Pig holding the earth in place, and i offered no proof of my Flying Pig except for my faith, then you can as well claim my Flying Pig does not exist by reason of not believing in my Flying Pig, its as simple as that..
As Hitchens already said, that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence too...

There is no evidence for any god, but because gods exist in people's head, the best position of an atheist is to say Yahweh doesnt probably exist, just as we can say the Flying Pig does not probably exist, but cannot really prove both as non existent

Yo are probably right by your analysis, Dawkins, and indeed all atheists aren't as aggressive as we seem to give the impression, but you have to understand that most xtians and other god worshipers are indeed dumb in their analysis too.

Outside nairaland, I am a gentleman, but in here, I have to treat people with ironhand to force logic into your head.

Atheism is a peaceful, in fact, the most peaceful way of life.

Understanding there is no god changes everything for you, you become newly born into a perfect and complete life.

peace out.

load of rubbish...

Deep Sight: By Living it.

i can ask again, how do you live it? stop prevaricating, i dont think you have an answer....

striktlymi: That would be unfair.

i understand, but you want something here, so give up or give in