₦airaland Forum

Deep Sight: O, no, please try again.

The link you posted identified an area responsible for self-control - it did not identify the self.

Here are the exact opening words from your link -

The area of the brain responsible for self-control—where the decision not to do something occurs after thinking about doing it—is separate from the area associated with taking action, scientists say in the August 22 issue of The Journal of Neuroscience

Read more at: http://phys.org/news106936688.html#jCp

Before you can talk of "controlling" something - the thing must exist, no?

So please, you have not identified the self, or located it.



This does not address the question asked sir. In simple terms, the question asked is whether or not a material construct (evolved or created, regardless) can have perception and experience.

Do you need to be told that it takes a decisive mind to make up a "self"?

The brain has perception and experience, so material construct in specific configuration can and do have perception. What we dont have an evidence for is your "being that inhabits the body"

maclatunji: Actually God exists independently of what you believe or say. The meaning is that whatever you choose to call him does not affect him. #LOL

It is a little bit like asking whether the glass is half-empty or half-full. The glass and its content remain constant regardless of your arguments.

at least there is a glass and water to view, where is your god?

kambo: agreed. But it seems the most plausble to the sceptc mind pick in a whole stack.

agreed, but things are not often the way they seem.

I personally think that if indeed there is a god, he would be more concerned about new inventions and innovations than become angry and jealous of some conscious spec of dust he created to keep the earth busy.

Deep Sight: I have not touched on the topic at all. Do not project. I have not even said I believe in an imperfect God.

Just don't take religious notions of God and project them on to me please.

I do not subscribe to any religion, thank you.

once again my apologies, now touch on my other responses, especial that concerning the mind.

Deep Sight: So you have no questions. Lol, please leave me and mine to my musings.

By the way, if there is a single falsity in anything I wrote, do feel free to point it out. But if there is not, can you not just smile at an idle old man and let him be.

falsity? maybe not, purposeful? definitely not too

what is your point is the simple question here.

Deep Sight: Where in my post did you see the word "perfect"?

Please don't make assumptions or project ideas that I have not expressed unto me.

Sorry, i assumed you also believe your god was perfect. I did not know you believe in an imperfect god. My apologies.

Deep Sight: I contend that save there exist a being which inhabits the body, there could be no such thing as the senses, no such thing as thought, and no such thing as emotion.

To be clear, I say that the being utilizes the particles which form a body, as instruments of perception: and I deny the reverse - which would be to say that dead particles assemble over time, and through evolution, into a perceptive being.

I say that a robot cannot taste an orange, or enjoy s.ex, however it may be formed, now or in the future.

I say that cameras, even computerized cameras, do not have the faculty of sight.

I say that audio recorders cannot hear.

I say that perception is only open to a person, and that matter, and the body, is not, and cannot, be a person.

I say that experience is only open to a person.

I therefore say that that which is not material, evidentially exists.

I task the atheist to identify, define and locate the self.

its simple, robots, etcs arent made of carbon molecules, neither do they have replicating and mutating dna.

And the area for "self" has been recently found. This is the the dorsal fronto-median cortex (dFMC), an area on the midline of the brain directly above the eyes.

http://phys.org/news106936688.html

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/14/health/self-control-brain/

Deep Sight: It is for the initiated to see.

Anyhow, there will be more.

all you have up there are questions showing your confusion...

^^Still doesnt mean your god is the true god.

Deep Sight: It is insane to hold that mind arose from matter.

Or even to claim ignorance that mind arises from mind.

It is insane to deny design in living creatures.

It is insane to hold that the particles constitute the being, and not that the being utilizes the particles.

It is insane to deny cause.

It is insane to claim ignorance of the laws of motion and thermodynamics, and their relevance to the cosmological discussion on the existence of God.

It is insane to deploy religious absurdities as the basis for rejecting a philosophical and cosmological supposition.

It is insane to behold the world, and all that rests therein: and repeatedly say: there is no proof, not a shred of evidence, no proof at all . . .

Is there any evidence for any mind not based on matter?

Does a human baby's mind come from his parents, or does he develop his? And does mind replicate or does 2 mindless half cells develop into a complete mindful being?

Design is never denied. The mechanism of its existence is what is in question.

Nature has natural causes. No one deny causes in nature.

It is insane to claim a perfect being as the creator of an imperfect world.

If only you can tell of how nature proves the existence of a particular god, or how you think your deistic view makes this starter of nature intelligent.

ok, where is the sum?

Deep Sight: If you had any idea of probabilities and "statistical analysis" you would not be an atheist.

You would see the stark, dim witted f.oolishness therein.

The epileptic insanity, even.

It will be great if you can point out the insanity in atheism

and its just alarming that you, who had made a choice and is certain about his view of deism, can claim any understanding of statistical analysis against someone with an open mind, who made no claim or certainty about existence of deities.

what if you have believed in the wrong god? your belief would then make no difference from disbelief. We are all atheists to gods we dont believe in.

it shouldnt, you probably did not download the one for your processor and bit, check your processor and bit and choose the appropriate setup from python site.

Reyginus: No. It still doesn't work. The problem is, what causes this constant process of change?

imperfection, lack of purpose if you will, or we can start talking about mutations and chemical instability. Natural forces like pressure etc are the reason for chemical reactions, and mistakes causes mutation. Now you may want to ask what causes mutation again, then its because cell's copy mechanisms aren't perfect, or ask why pressure and the like initiate chemical reactions, its because chemicals react when they are not stable so they can be relieve the stress on them and remain in equilibrium. Nuclear reaction is another topic entirely where quantum physics explain the causes. Still, the general concept of a chemical reaction has been extended to non-chemical reactions between entities smaller than atoms, including nuclear reactions, radioactive decays, and reactions between elementary particles as described by quantum field theory.
There is no room for an uncaused cause. Stability is what nature lacks, should nature be stable, there will be no need or cause for new forms, so instability as brought about by pressure, temperature etc can as well be said to be a cause. Constant motion of particles can also be said to be a cause.

It all depends on the context and your purview

I just got this new fascination for matlab, but i already write in c/c++, so i dont think i need it. Any Matlab writer here who can give me reasons to learn matlab will be appreciated. Thanks

Rexyl: People who are passionate for the truth will like to seek the truth, identify it and hold on to it be it on the physical or the spiritual. In science people have explored so many things and made some discoveries which have changed human perspectives and created many new things. Belief is just a way of appreciating wonders of creation and recognising the mighty Creator. Christianity is based on the truth of Almighty God the Creator, His knowledge and proper way to serve Him. He created and gave humans the power to bring substances into being from existing things. That the world is spherical should not have caused any threat as regards peoples‘ belief about God in line with the doctrine and design of the universe. This fact was also supported in the Bible.

he's just telling you that you need to question your belief

maclatunji: ^Your case is no case at all. So far, I see ad hominems and no attempt to logically disprove his excellent analysis. This is an analogy of what Atheists are saying:

1. I am an intelligent being.

2. I come from nothing.


We say:

1, Nothing is zero.

2. Zero is unitelligent

Conclusion:

1. You say you come from nothing

2. Nothing is zero

3. And zero is unintelligent

4. Therefore you have no intelligence because you are essentially zero.

Rebuttal:

1. You insist you are intelligent

2. We say you must have come from something intelligent to have intelligence.

In essence, an Atheist insults himself as "nothing" everytime he says he has no creator.

As for evolution, re-read the OP again. If you do not get it, then there is little need engaging you as you might never get it.

-QED

Since you also claim your god does not have a creator, each time you make such statement, you insult your god as nothing.

Hope your logic become clear to you now.

And this is no lecture for atheists, this is a show of your ignorance.

kambo: The active atheists here swing btween[b] two main states of mind[/b].
In one state they try to prove he isnt real and they believe in him .
This is the doubtful state.


In anoda state they attack the Bible insult Him and try to prove him evil usually with bible references to backup their attacks.


In a 3rd state they extend d attacks to christians: pastors ,prominent men of God etc.

you said we swing between two main states of mind, but you highlighted 3 states...
we dont doubt, we disbelieve and we talk about religion because it affects our world, and we care about the world, and the future of our species, we are only trying to bring about change

atheists are not afraid of hell, we dont believe in hell so no need to be afraid and even if there is indeed a hell somewhere, then atheists will make it a better place of eternal existence, so you dont need to be afraid of hell anymore

Reyginus: Lol. ooman, we are not quarelling yet. Please, kpele, biko, abeg.

I hope this doesn't derail the thread.
This is what I mean. My problem with Natural Selection as encapsulated in that post was that, it cannot explain how things are designed. It only appears to be a name given to the structure of things as they appear.

You response was that it is the cause of Evolution and the constant process of change. If you look carefully you'd notice that the statement as presented by you appears to be tautological. It uses the question to answer itself. We know evolution happens because of natural selection. Your answer is simply put as, Natural selection determines how things are structured because of Natural Selection. Correct me I am wrong.

Yes you are wrong. Correctly put would be: Natural selection determines how things are structured because of the constant process of change.

It's as simple as that. The fact of the constancy of change is the cause of new things, and natural selection is the sustainer of the better ones.

Hope this works

There is no god to pray to

c free is free and simple

which bold and what repeating question? I understand the answer is nothing new, but how it eludes you is surprising!

Reyginus: I don't understand your first two paragraphs.

its self explanatory, what exactly dont you get?

Python 2.7 doc in the interpreter....silly question

OLAADEGBU: Scientific facts in the Bible:

Genesis 2:1 (after creation): "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them."

The Hebrew word used here is the past definite tense for the verb "finished," indicating an action completed in the past, never again to occur. The creation was "finished"— once and for all. That is what the First Law of Thermodynamics says. It states that neither matter nor energy can be either created or destroyed. There is no "creation" ongoing today. It is "finished" exactly as the Bible states.

From, The Evidence Bible

Heavens and earth were finished and all the host of them, not some very fundamental stuff that the 1st law of thermodynamics supports but the very heavens and the earth itself, and the host of them.

Do you have an open eyes at all?

Stop making silly claims

Do Nigerians need common sense and do Nigerians need to start thinking about here and now and drop the bed time story of a god and paradise? Yes

OLAADEGBU: God is never unjust and never capricious. He is the God of mercy and at the same time the Just God. It is your choice whether you will face His justice on Judgment Day or His Mercy through Jesus Christ. Your decision determines your destiny.

look, your god is a monster, the rest is just made up story

Reyginus: Lol. Another miss. I was to end on wednesday but I choose to add one day.

On a serious note, I think being an atheist is easier. The only difficult question I encountered must have been the fine-tuning argument by Manhunter. I would have replied by asctibing it to Natural Selection, but, I reconsidered.

Natural Selection experiences change in the building of simpler blocks of existence to their respective complexities. So it cannot be causeless and if it is not, it cannot be uncaused. There should be a reason why Natural Selection is happening. It cannot be because of Natural Selection. The 'why' or to put it better 'cause' held me back.

The 'why' is because nothing is constant or perfect in nature, everything changes and so, only the best fitted and only the most stable continue

The 'cause' is the constant process of change, which is evolution.

@bold - its true, its very easy to be an atheist because god is easy to drop.

OLAADEGBU: Did you guys read the answers provided at all? And you ended up shooting yourselves in the foot.

If you did you would have realised that God didn't just confine His wrath to the Canaanites or to the Amalekites or Midianites. He proclaimed the death sentence upon the whole of humanity. We will die because we have broken God's Law. Every one of us is waiting on death row. Instead of you guys standing in moral judgment over the Almighty God, the appropriate thing to do is to judge ourselves according to the Law of God as I posted above. We would find out that we have a multitude of sins and are therefore deserving of punishment. Yet God, out of love, paid the penalty for our sin so we would not have to.

"And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter" (Revelation 8:11 The Evidence Bible)

we are talking about what happened after the flood...

Lordlexyy: And God will yet kill more at the final judgement. He will show mercy to those worthy of mercy, but to the children of disobedience, He will pour out yet His indignation fury and wrath. Like the scripture said, "it is a scary thing to fall in the hands of the Lord". For people like you who find occasion to speak ill of God and His messangers, remember that every idle word will receive just recompence.

Yeah, i know, your god is a murderer. Thats not new to me...

Concerning recompense for speaking ill of your god, that will happen only if he receive recompense for all the evil and genocide he's committed.