₦airaland Forum

EVarn:
The idea that China is building all our vessels for us is an utterly ridiculous fallacy.Why,I can clearly remember that China is scrambling to acquire more vessels to safeguard its hold on the South-China sea and silk trade route,tell me,how can a country in such a dire need,leave its own problems to serve the interests of another country?.

China is hardly "Scrambling" to build that class of vessel

They are "scrambling" to build destroyers and design a new cruiser, not sh1tty little gun-boats

agaugust:
2015 citation needed
.

No it isnt.

SAN is operating just as it always has.

If you wish to suggest that SAN operating guidlelines have changed - then you have to post a citation.

agaugust:
Radar controls the 20mm cannon on Shaldag gunboat, does that make it a CIWS ?

Now your source DOES NOT say the gunner is on Drakensberg, I need proof of 20mm gun specs for SAS Drakensberg, prove to us that it is only manually controlled.....or you just made claims with ZERO proof ?

#Trapped
.

Augustus

The 20mm on the Shaldag is listed as being the Typhoon Weapon System

The 20mm on the Drakensburg are listed as just 20mm Oerlekon

I am not wasting anymore time with this.

We all know that they are manually operated, I have shown you pictures as well.

If you want to argue for the sake of arguing, go ahead. I am not going to waste my time with pointless arguments.

EVarn:
I thought you once claimed that OPVs are for weak and small navies,Now when it comes to 'Project Biro',OPVs have suddenly become vessels of national prestige?.
You are going to build OPVs by 2018?
rather unbelievable.

OPV's are indeed just that

But we allready have frigates and submarines

Now we can focus on smaller support vessels

agaugust:
Nope, Egypt is not buying your old type of submarine, they are buying the latest technology version of Type 209. South Africa got technology of 10 years ago, Egypt is advancing to year 2016 technology of new Type 209.

So you tell lies again, serial liar !

On 31 August 2012, the Egyptian Navy commander General Osama Ahmed stated that a contract has been signed with the German side to build two type 209 submarines for the Egyptian Navy including the latest technology this type has reached. The first vessel is scheduled to be delivered in 2016. Egypt is planning to exercise an option of the contract for another two type 209 submarines"


http://dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9220:egypt-mod-intends-to-procurer-two-more-type-209-subs&catid=36:africa&Itemid=55
.

The Egyptian Government has signed an agreement with Germany for the procurement of two Howaldtswerke-Deutche Werft (HDW)-built SSK Manthatisi-class Type-209 submarines aimed at boosting its naval fleet capability, Egypt's Naval commander Osama Ahmed el-Gendy has announced.
http://www.naval-technology.com/news/newsgermany-deliver-two-type-209-submarines-egypt

The Manthatisi-class is the latest of the Type 209/1400 classes you chucklefuck

Get that into your goddamn head.

agaugust:
[size=20pt]He posted a 2013 old report in 2015....out-dated wrong information. LOL.

He actually k.illed h.imself in suicide mode.

LOL[/size]

You illiterate

You are unable to comprehend the most basic of sources

The source explains the designed usage of our fleet - a usage that the fleet has maintained.

The only times it failed to do so was when 2 subs were in dry-dock (after the crash) and most recently when the Amatola was undergoing sea-trials post refit and was thus not considered operationally ready.

Dude, I am starting to lose interest in this thread. This is becoming pointless.

agaugust:
[size=16pt]Out-dated report year 2013.

Today year 2015, South Africa has ONLY 1 Frigate, 1 Submarine operational

The others are non-functional
.[/size]

Augustus

That 2013 report explains the operational model in which the SAN operates its frigates.

Currently 2 frigates are operational as well as 2 submarines.

The 3rd frigate is used for training, the 3rd sub and 4th frigate are in refit.

Fact, fact, fact.

agaugust:
I quoted the dates and costs with the contract summary and that confirmed the Harpoon missiles from my first post, you denied it. You are a liar.

Did you post a proper source to show SAS Drakensberg 20mm cannon is only manually operated?

For the bolded parts, you lie again :

1. Today, best Submarine in Africa is year 2010 version Algerian Kilo Class 636M

2. Type 209 was NOT developed for SAN, they were developed for Germany and have existed since world war II, mumu !

http://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.asp?ship_id=Type-209
.

1. Citation needed for kilo class

2. I have posted the links many times, this is the last:

The Egyptian Government has signed an agreement with Germany for the procurement of two Howaldtswerke-Deutche Werft (HDW)-built SSK Manthatisi-class Type-209 submarines aimed at boosting its naval fleet capability, Egypt's Naval commander Osama Ahmed el-Gendy has announced.
http://www.naval-technology.com/news/newsgermany-deliver-two-type-209-submarines-egypt


SSK Manthatisi Class (Type 209/1400) Attack Submarine, South Africa
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/sskmanthatisi/

The Type 209 family is divided into classes according to tonnage and capabilities. Manthatisi is the most modern of the biggest of the classes (at 1400 tonnes)

So, we can see:

- Egypt is ordering the Manthatisi-Class Type 209
- The Manthatisi-Class is named after the SAS Manthatisi and is a sub-class of the Type 209/1400

Just a reminder about the allegations made by Nigerians about SAN fleet readyness:

There have been reports critical of the SAN’s operational readiness levels.

Of course, there is no way that all its vessels can be fully operational at the same time – naval vessels, like aircraft, have complex mainte-nance schedules involving a variety of different levels of maintenance. And crews need training – a vessel undertaking training duties is not operationally deployable.

In the past readiness, was, if anything, worse. In the 1970s, the SAN had, on paper, a fleet of three submarines, two destroyers, four frigates and three ocean patrol ships (comprising two obsolete frigates and one obsolete ocean minesweeper).

In reality, there were never more than two submarines, one destroyer and three frigates in service (and often there were only two frigates operational). Of the nine strike craft that formed the backbone of the surface force in the 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s, no more than six were ever in service at the same time.

Worldwide, an operational level of 50% – that is, half of the fleet is at sea or can put to sea for operational missions in a matter of days – is regarded as good for navies. Many navies do not achieve this level. Very, very few indeed exceed it. “

The SA Navy currently has two frigates available for operational contingencies,” he reports. “One frigate is deployed as part of the anti-piracy patrols in the Mozambique Channel whilst the other is scheduled to undertake an extensive west coast patrol with visits and exercises scheduled off Namibia, Angola, Nigeria and Senegal (where it will participate in the Sea Power for Africa Symposium [November 5 to 8, 2013]). A third frigate is available for training in Simon’s Town whilst the fourth is undergoing maintenance and repair. The SAS Amatola is due to conduct a refit which should commence early in the new year. The current frigate availability rate is as per the SA Navy ‘business plan’ and exceeds the international norm for operational availability.” As for the submarines, one is undergoing a major refit which will last until the middle of next year.

It is our preference that if you wish to share this article with others you should please use the following link:

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/south-african-navy-mulls-future-requirements-as-fleet-remains-active-2013-10-04-1

EVarn:
By the time you start building your {imaginary} IPVs and OPVs,we will be constructing destroyers and assembling an aircraft carrier.

you are going to be building destroyers and an aircraft carrier by 2020?

Wow

agaugust:
Fact? How? Just because Patches says so? No ! Citation needed now !
.

Look at the name of the weapon: "20mm Oerlikon"

Look at the caption of the picture: "A Gunner operating a 20mm Oerlikon"
http://www.navy.mil.za/SANCareers/weapons_operator.htm

Look at the armament of the Drakensburg "4× Oerlikon 20 mm cannon"

Unless you are saying that ALL 20mm Oerlikon in service with the SAN are actually CIWS... which is fine by me

agaugust:
[size=20pt]

Operator: Egypt Status:

On Order Number: 4 Names:

Cost: First two for 920 Euro Acquired: Approved in November 2011 and first expected to be delivered in 2016.

Country of origin: Germany Manufacturer: Howaldtswerke-Deutsche -

Armament: 8 x 21 inch torpedo tubes Missiles UGM-84 Harpoon SSM Torpedos 14 x Tigerfish torpedoes

http://militaryedge.org/armaments/type-209/

Now you are the big time serial liar !
.[/size]

No I am not

Your last citation said nothing about Harpoons

Post proper sources and we wont have to waste post after post

Anyway:

Status - On order
http://militaryedge.org/armaments/type-209/

And your source is some unknown trash site. Give us reputable citations.

Until delivered, SAN has the best Subs in Africa (So good that Egypt ordered the class of submarine that was developed for SAN)

Game over

agaugust:
There is nothing in your source relevant to your claims.

I see talk about nuclear submarine and Korea buying a new model Type 209 that is superior to that of South Africa.

You helped me prove my point o ! Thanks brah
.

Stop wasting time.

Read the sources

make educated posts

Stop trolling

agaugust:
Nope, I need a citation of technical specs saying that SAS Drakensberg 20mm cannon are not connected to radar fire control.

The photo you posted is NOT SAS Drakensberg, it's a random photo....http://www.navy.mil.za/SANCareers/weapons_operator.htm

Now I make you look more dense today than I did yesterday . LOL

#Slaughtered
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Augustus

I am not wasting time with this argument.

The 20mm guns on the Drakensburg are manually operated.


Look at the name of the weapon: "20mm Oerlikon"

Look at the caption of the picture: "A Gunner operating a 20mm Oerlikon"

Look at the armament of the Drakensburg "4× Oerlikon 20 mm cannon"

This is fact, end of story.

agaugust:
SANDF has only 26 Olifants with Passive armour ONLY in some parts of the tank, partial composite, not full.

The other 177 SANDF Olifant tanks are old world war II capacity basic steel armour, Nigerian T-72 tank with ERA will eat all your 203 tanks
.

All 64 Olifants of the Mk1B and Mk2 standard have composite armor while the turrets have reactive armor.

The glacis plate and nose of the hull have been upgraded with the addition of passive armour and the turret has been fitted with stand-off armour. The installation of a double-armour floor gives the crew additional protection against mines. The running gear is protected against HEAT missiles by new sideskirts.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/olifant/

So yet again, you talk about that which you know nothing about.

And multiple T-72s with no-no-no era have been posted.

agaugust:
Nigeria trained deputy chief of staff of South African airforce in Nigerian aviation school, we built his foundation, without us he will NEVER fly an aircraft....Nigeria trains South African military top leaders of General ranks, not sergeants, we train your military Generals, we own you o !
.

So you taught a man how to fly?

You didnt teach him anything military?

So, how then is this relevant to a military career?

agaugust:
SANDF does not have infantry NCOs and COs that lead your file troops/privates into dismounted infantry battles ?

LOL

Read the ranks of those old white men, the lowest ranked amongst them is a Staff sergeant

agaugust:
Bigger gun bigger explosive ammunition bigger firepower bigger killing power....Naija T-72 will eat up SANDF tanks like indomie noodles
.

Gun is irrelevant if you cant see or hit what you are shooting at

agaugust:
SF ops are secret all over the world. You don't have the military knowledge to know that fact.

Only few important SF achievements are published.

Nigerian SF and US Navy Seals SF both have world record of killing top ranked enemy leadership in surgical strikes. South Africa has no such achievement in your history.....you failed to nail one single enemy leader in surgical strike.

Nigerian SBS is 10 years old. NA commandos are as old as our army. Our SF have been in every war we fought
.

So your only accomplishment in 10 years of war is to kill the same guy 3 times?

agaugust:
Nigeria has over 100 T-72 tanks already, about 200 will be total final numbers.

. [/b]

What evidence do you have to support these claims?

Your own citation says 56.

I say you only have 4.

Prove me wrong.

agaugust:
[s]Nope, South African education is a failure even for you a white man [/s]

You say 16 vehicles including T-72 tanks. The source you are reading says T-72 tanks and 16 other types of vehicles.

You see what your 'Top Ranking' South African education can do to disgrace your country? Zimbabwean brains are superior to South Africans' .

"The Czech arms dealer Excalibur Group will deliver modernized Soviet-made tanks T-72 M1 and 16 other vehicles ."

"Czech company Excalibur Group, led by a former armorer Pavel Strnad, managed to acquire as many as 58 T-72 tanks (T-72M1 variant) from Hungary to sell them – with other heavy military equipment – to the army of Nigeria , locked in a savage conflict with Boko Haram."

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2015/02/01/czechs-sell-tanks-to-nigeria-to-fight-boko-haram/

http://www.praguepost.com/the-big-story/44075-nigeria-buys-czech-weapons-to-fight-boko-haram

Now you see why I usually refuse to re-post old sources for you and insist you go back and search it out yourself from the archives? It's because I discovered that you are not worth the waste of time.....even when we give you sources, you still cannot read and understand simple English language....then all the efforts to prove things to you, becomes a waste of time and energy even with clear evidence and sources.


South African brains cannot read and understand a simple short comprehension passage....worst schools in Africa

[s]Nigeria has over 100 T-72 tanks already, about 200 will be total final numbers.[/s]

CASE CLOSED
.

It seems you cant read either.

Read the CITATION

agaugust:
"The Czech arms dealer Excalibur Group will deliver modernized Soviet-made tanks T-72 M1 and 16 other vehicles ."

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2015/02/01/czechs-sell-tanks-to-nigeria-to-fight-boko-haram/

[size=20pt]Not 16 TYPES of vehical... 16 other individual vehicals!!


Bwa-ahahahah!! you insult others about literacy yet you expose your own lack of literacy in the same post!! Now that is IRONY! [/size]

agaugust:
South African brains cannot read and understand a simple short comprehension passage....worst schools in Africa


.

Says the man who could not read a simple artical about the speed of a falling bomb

Henry120:
Exactly, Even with improved targeting(laser guided munitions et al), most jets are simply no good. Of course Sub-sonic jets are better in CAS, i still do not feel jets are an ideal close air support platform.

who said jets are no good?

Speed is irrelevant, you just need to target what you want to blow up and press the button that releases the JDAM's

Hence why the F-35 is going to retire the A-10.

Henry120:
Naah!! I'm not a fan of using Fighter Jets for CAS. Not only are (jets) bad at it, there's a higher chance of blue on blue.

With PGM's and sniper pods combined with good operational control this is not a problem.

agaugust:
[size=16pt]Bwhahahahaha

Your own source k.illed y.ou pata-pata

Col. Barlow side, the tide turned against Boko Haram and the credit goes to the Nigerian army, NOT South African mercenaries who did not exist in that war......imaginary phantom SA Mercenaries DO NOT EXIST in Boko war.

All that came was a small 5 man trainer team as private military company to train 120 men strike force of low rank troops....corporals, privates, sergeants... .

Nigeria trained SANDF-SAAF army/air force chiefs of staff, top rank Generals !


The Army that defeated Boko Haram is the 150,000 man Nigerian army......with a 0.0001 % support from the 120 men trained by Barlow....ordinary 120 men with AK-47 rifle, HMG and MRAP.

Nigerian army of 150,000 men turned the war tide with T-72 tanks, Bofors FH-77 artillery, BTR-4E IFV, Palmaria artillery, BVP-1 IFV, RM-60 MRLS, LG-3 AGL, Scorpion tanks, etc....All used by Nigerian troops trained by Nigerian officers for many decades.

End of story.....NO South African mercenary fired one bullet in battle against Boko Haram....war victory credit goes to Nigerian army according to South African Col. Eben Barlow
.

[/size]

Mercenaries trained your men, flew your gazelles and hinds and co-ordinated your war

South Africans directly trained your men'

We own your army, you must now thank us for liberating you from boko haram!!

Ps: When did South Africans receive combat or military training in Nigeria?

lezz:
oh cut the crap. everything about south Africa is racial. can one really discuss south without race? hell no.

from the way your incompetent military is constituted is racial. filling it up with freedom fighters and black personnel who are dimwits. that is the true image of South Africa if you are honest.


keep improvising excuses, it makes an interesting pastime.

Yes, and this post of yours is supported by the simple OPINION of another.

Racially motivated OPINION.

agaugust:
Yes, the SANDF Olifant tank captured in battle by Cuban army boys and girls
.

Yes, the 90 Cuban and Angolan tanks our Ratles and Olifants knocked killed in one battle.

agaugust:
[size=13pt]

"Czech company Excalibur Group, led by a former armorer Pavel Strnad, managed to acquire as many as
58 T-72 tanks (T-72M1 variant) from Hungary to sell them – with other heavy military equipment –
to the army of Nigeria , locked in a savage conflict with the brutal Boko Haram sect."

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2015/02/01/czechs-sell-tanks-to-nigeria-to-fight-boko-haram/

http://www.praguepost.com/the-big-story/44075-nigeria-buys-czech-weapons-to-fight-boko-haram


Soweto rug-rats with ancient SANDF Olifant tanks [/size]
.

Thank you for proving that you do not have 100 T-72's!!

You have committed suicide!!

agaugust:
About 203 SANDF Olifant tanks, ONLY 26 have modern armour....the others have ancient steel armour.

One Nigerian T-72 tank with RHA will wreck 90 % of South African tank force in one day !

See Naija T-72 ERA the Killer...
.

How, Olifant has superior optics and FCS, we can engage you at longer distance and with superior accuracy.

You only have less than 12 T-72's.

agaugust:
90 % of SANDF Olifant tanks are stuck with ancient RHA armour forever, one Nigerian T-72 will wreck 90 % of SANDF tank force
.

Problem is that we have been upgrading them as we need them.

Composit armor additions are installed as we need.

We have no threats that posses heavy armor thus MBT's are a low priority for us... just like they have allways been.

agaugust:
Our ERA armour will kill all SANDF RHA armour....they won't even find your tank crews' dead body to bury after we blast your 105 mm gun tin can Olifant tanks with our 125 mm T-72 guns
.

Olifant has composite armor.

Olifant superior FCS and optics will enable us to engage you before you can engage us and with better accuracy.

Crew kills are not necessary to take your tank out of the battle, we could track you, destroy the ability of your turret to turn (hit the turret rim) or hit the weak armor around your engine.

Plus, lack of spalling-liners on the inside of your T-72 mean that we can kill your crew without getting a penetration.

Brah, you wanna talk tanks? Tanks are my forte.

agaugust:
90 % of SANDF Olifant tanks today are the old cargo plain metal ancient RHA armour, only about 10 % of your Olifants got modern armour upgrade. Today, Nigeria will defeat South Africa in a tank vs tank battle.

One Boko Haram RPG with HEAT warhead will tear 200 units of SANDF Olifant tanks into pieces

SANDF armour is now obsolete.....world war II relics.....Nigerian T-72 tanks with ERA armour will ruin and wreck SANDF ancient tanks
.

You have less than 12 T-72's

We have 68 in service all have been upgraded to at least the MK1B standard. Reserve MBT's are in varying states of upgrade