₦airaland Forum

Henry240:
A contract hasn't been announced yet Dufus. We'll have to wait till November at the IDEAS exhibition.

I dont deal with if or maybe. I deal in facts.

Answer the question:

As of this moment how many JF-17 Thunder Jets has Nigeria purchased?

Henry240:
Offcourse the Gripen is not better than the JF-17 all things considered.

Answer the question:

You have only bought 3

True or false?

tdayof:
The way you argue is what makes me laugh. Wing loading, speed, engine etc. Argue with facts not numbers.

Been posted

I'm not going to repost them over and over and over

Half of the figures are provided in any case

Henry240:
You keep repeating the same fart over and over.

Is it true or false?

Henry240:
The JF-17 radar is 105km, Gripen radar is 120km. A 15km difference is nothing when you take into account those jets are cruising at 1,900km an hour. You dumb ass.


The Gripen doesn't have better electronics than the JF-17. Neither is it more maneuverable.


The Gripen has one extra hardpoint over the JF-17...... Wow!! "Such a success".


Fact is RSA paid $65 million for a JF-17. It is so hilarious yet so sad.


Nigeria's contract would be announced this November, 3 planes budgeted for in this years budget only represents a start-up haul. Common sense seems to always elude you.

It does make a difference because it means I am more likely to detect you first, it gives me options. It is better

We outlined the Gripens electronics they are better

Gripen has better wing loading, it is more maneuverable

Gripen has a higher g-raying (9 v

Gripen has a more powerfull engine (54kN v 50kN)

One extra hard point And the ability to carry an extra 1500kgs of weapons

Gripen is also faster (Mach 2 v Mach 1.6)

So how is a jet that is inferior in every way the same as a Gripen? How?

Jf17 has been around for 13 years, its as good as a Gripen... Yet where are the sales? SAAB has sold over 80 Gripen... Only 20 JF-17 sold. Why?

Nigeria has only purchased 3. Facts seem to allude you.

tdayof:
Gripen doesn't even operate an AESA radar so how do you define powerful? Because you can launch at more tan 5 targets at a time? In a real combat situation, You wouldn't want to do that.
That's the only difference. If you were comparing to PESA or AESA, I would have agreed but not with a pulse Doppler radar.

Maneuverability: Maneuverability doesn't win a fight always.
Who wants to do a cobra maneuver in a real life combat situation? All conventional maneuvers can be performed by the JF-17 so I see no big deal with this maneuverability issue.

AESA upgrade is available

Yes, in combat when I light up my targetting radar and tell everyone (who does not already know) that I am there I want to hit as many targets as possible as quickly as possible

Maneuverable means you are more likely to evade legacy SAMs... But yes, the Adarter just made maneuverable obsolete

africaken254:
too you may be,but not too me,so if your having issues with who is wearing what in south africa !.its your problem

-> what frumentus is talking about




















->your head

Henry240:
Not just good, but brilliant. We the JF-17 we are getting more than value for money, we are getting a brilliant asset that would adequately fulfill our requirements and beyond. Significantly better plane than what the SAAF paid $65 million for.


The marriage would be made in Fighter Jet heaven if the NAF combines the JF-17 with an Aselpod targeting pod.

Lol

It's better because a forum post says so?

We compared the two

Gripen is:

-faster
-more maneuverable
-carrys a bigger payload
-has more hard points
-has more powerful radar
-has more capable electronics etc etc etc

Fact is, you say Gripen is over priced. Yet people keep buying it. Thus; it is not over priced. Over 89 Gripen have been sold.

Fact is your cheap junk fighter has been flying for 13 years and they have sold only.... 20.

What is happened is that Nigeria could not afford a proper fighter, so they got a cheap Chinese copy, and even then you could only afford 3

Henry240:
Not even SAAB marketers are as deluded as Patches. This infographic puts to rest the delusional claim of Patches. The Gripen C/D is only as good as an F-16 C/D, that is an F-16 Block 40 aircraft.



There is no way a Gripen C/D is anywhere as good as this F-16 Block 52, they are not even in the same class. It is impossible, infact should be jailable for anyone to mention a Gripen C/D in the same sentence as an F-16 Block 52.

Look at the glorious plane.... Beauty and class.

Ok, you keep saying this

I keep asking you to prove it.

You never can

Pathetic, words of an insecure man.

We all know why you are so obsessed with the F16 blk 40.

Henry240:
This is the Plane Patches claims would be shot down by a Gripen.



Welcome to the crazy South-African world of Patrick AKA Paul AKA Patches.

I have provided the source of how

Thailand agrees

But you want to tell me I am wrong because of a pretty picture? You know more than the Air marshals and analysis of Thailand? Than SAAB who designed it to fight the Su30?

Go back to masturbating over your crashed Junk Fighter. You are a child, comparing things by how they look.

Henry240:
The JF-17 has in it's 13 years of existence had only 1 crash. This supposed crash, if it actually happened would be the second crash of the jet in 13 years since introduction. If this isn't a splendid record, then i don't know what is.


As far as we are aware, there's been no official statement on any crash apart from the a random tweet online. That's not evidence, @Nemesis2u has to provide proof of a crash.


The bird which crashed last week was an F-7, not a JF-17. The JF-17 is an excellent platform with all the capabilities found in top of the line jets such as the Rafale, Eurofighter present. We would be significantly satisfied with the JF-17.

Holy fvck can you be any more delusional?

You can't even prove its as good as a Gripen, desperately relying on posts from other forums to make your case

Now you compare it to the Rafael/Eurofighter?

Sad!

PS: Malaysia announced they would not be considering the JF17 for their new fighter, Gripen lasted longer in the trails

africaken254:
so your equating kenya to being an unstable democracy!,we are fighting cut throat terrorist but you are just dealing with rag-tag rebels

It's irrelevant who you are dealing with.

Henry240:
We are done here. Your ignorance, your problem.

He is right.

You manipulated what he said

It's nothing more than projection on your part, insecurities bubble up, you perceive slight where there is none.

frumentius:
As this was a fully-funded gift from Uncle Sam, I doubt dude in black shirt was brought in. Though one never knows with militaries where civilians are applauded for putting on BDUs because CinC.

dude.....



-> The Joke









-> Your head

frumentius:
Stop man, stop. Just because the civilian leader appropriates BDUs doesn't necessarily adversely reflect on all the armed services.

Moving right along: Senegalese Commandos.

Excuse me?

frumentius:
To the Kenyans and Cameroonians: have your Scan Eagle UAV systems come on stream yet? In-country work was being done in Nanyuki and Douala respectively, and formal induction into service scheduled for September.

"Our Scan Eagle is tailor made for customer requirements"

"It comes standard with a piston powered launcher, or if you have funding challenges, it comes with a guy in a black shirt who runs around with it"

denisfidha:
he had a grade D in his A-levels, but still got sponsored and joined cambridge with a grade way below the required, then he graduated with a 2nd class lower (thats like 50%) , then he tried to join the marienes and failed miserably, he whent to entertainment carreer which dint pan out.... it reached a time where he went back to backingham palace in which the media reported that it was a descision he chose to be a " full time royal family member"....... basicaly that says he had failed in all aspects, he just went back to live with his powerful parents/grand parents because thats the only place he can get whatever he wants withought qualifying for it.... and he was made colonel, and two-three months later, he shows up up with medals.....
Now tell me if a regular soldier can get their in 4 months even after failing the course... i'll just end there

Nice cherry picked example.

Have a picture of the 3rd in line for the throne deployed in Afghan*.

Now, enough of this off topic nonsense.

tdayof:
"Beyond Science Fiction" --Chinese Quantum Physics Breakthrough Enables New Radar Capable of Detecting ‘Invisible’ Targets 100 Kilometers Distant

Wonder how this invention would have been useless if found made by an African. We will be like does he even know what he's saying ? A breakthrough in detecting low reflective and almost invisible targets? If it's not from the west it's not possible.

Because China never ever makes propaganda statements ever

Totally trust worthy

andrewza:
Actually a few of them have been shot down over Iraq.

Andrew is mistaken

Prince Harry's first deployment was as a JTAC. His location was kept a secret, but halfway through the newspapers broke the story and he had to be withdrawn.

He completed his second deployment as an Apache pilot.

While his uncle (Prince Charles brother) flew helicopters in the Falklands war.

First in line to the throne doesn't see active deployment, but all the others do.

Ps: The queen was an Army mechanic in WW2

denisfidha:
"questionable democracied with dodgy militaries"

1)former president of ghana was burried in full military uniform... having never served in the military- ghana is probably the most democratic nation in Africa..

2) all the men of the royal british royal family wear uniforms as Honorary Colonels of Regiments in Britain's Armed Forces on any official function they see fit.


4) Barack Obama leader of the free world and largest democracy was also wrong in doing this (pics below)

last pic, south korea (the most liberal asian democracy) president park at an observation podt in a military excersize



- A number of presidents never wear then coz they probably look terribly ridiculous in them with plumb bodies.... Got nothing to do with democracy

The Royals all served in the military (including the queen)

Barrack is just wearing a jacket

Korean democracy is dodgy... They only allowed to serve one term for a reason

nganduh:
Even with their bias, they did not put the Gripen C/D ahead of the F-16 C/D or the Su-27. Never mind the later variants of the Falcon and the Flanker.

They didn't say it was worse either

Henry240:
Classification of Fighter aircrafts in China differs from how the West or Russia classifies Fighter jets. The fact China missed the first Generation of fighters, it only has 4 generations of fighter jets.


The First Generation

Second generation

3rd Generation

4th Generation.

The J-10 and JF-17 are both classified as 3 Generation fighters, while J-20 and J-31 are 4th Generation.

Generation classification is uniform

Henry240:
The source has been provided. So, go do your own research.

Your source is a blog, a forum

Would quoting a post on the other thread be valid?

I have done my own research I have shown the JF17 to be inferior, you have not responded accorsingly

Henry240:
The information on the block II is open-source. You can as well do you own research to verify data. Atleast we all saw the JF-17 at the Paris Air Show in 2015.

Sources are, SAAB, Aviation week, PAC & Janes.


Congrats on paying 65million on a Swedish JF-17. An aircraft that isn't even the match of an F-16 Block 52.

No, you got your "information" from a Pakistani blog.

Your information is largely incorrect

You are the one making allegations, burden of proof is on you

tdayof:
Let solve this amicably.

You want to prove the gripen is better at some aspect, Pick up a specific aspect and let debate on it. Not just all this it has a better this and that you're all saying without enough facts.

You want to tackle radar, discuss about the radar system, compare with facts before moving to another.

I have already responded as to how the Gripen is better in comparison

It carrys a bigger payload, is faster, more maneuverable etc

With regards to radar, ours outranges you and allows simultaneous engagement of up to 4 targets

Henry, your pretty pictures come from a fvcking blog!!! A Pakistani blog no less!
http://defence.pk/threads/jas-39-gripen-c-vs-jf-17-thunder-block-2.419969/

You should have known I would have reverse image searched!

What's next? You going to quote the other thread as a source?

Come now, this is fair and honest debate in good spirit, vigorous? Yes! Heated? Yes! These are the qualities of any good debate!

But lets keep it to a high standard. Good research, reliable sources. We may actually learn something from each other. Steel sharpens steel.

Now:

Gripen has a more powerfull engine, is faster, is more maneuverable, has a bigger payload, more hard-points, has more advanced electronics (HMD, fly-by-wire, complete sensor fusion, EWS 39 amongst the most capable EW suite in existance) is combat tested and has over 20 years of operational history. Most importantly many customers have chosen it over the SU30 and chosen it to fight the Su30. Not to mention a full generation ahead of the JF-17 (according to its chinese designer)

You get what you pay for

nemesis2u:




i have nothing against the gripen, i find it to be a very capable aircraft well suited for the purpose for which it was designed.

but to claim a gripen can run down a su30mki with or without AWACS is lolzzzz.

firstly Gripen is a light category fighter , SU30MKI is a heavy category aircraft.

maybe a flight of gripens running well though out tactics might corner a single su 3030mki , but against a similar no of su30mki , it will be out matched completely.

do u know a su30mki is by itself a mini AWACS . its 2 man crew provides better operational performance and situational awareness in high paced aerial engagements etc etc.

lets give u a small example......

Su-30MKI is an air superiority fighter and was designed from the outset to cruise at far higher altitudes than other combat aircraft. a Su-30MKI will always be cruising at least 10,000 feet/15,000 feet above its so called opponents like the F-16 , Gripens etc and that's because the Su-30MKI's RLSU-30MK/NO-11M 'Bars' PESA-MMR and OEPS-30 IRST sensor both function at their very best when operating in the look-down mode. In addition, a R-77 BVRAAM or R-73E WVRAAM when fired from a higher altitude against targets below will possess higher kinematic performance as well as greater engagement ranges.
for a moment lets assume that gripen has superior ranged BVRAAMS.
then also it should not be a problem because it is a fact that no AAM flies straight either in azimuth or elevation & therefore max range is never critical. all BVRAAMs use proportional navigation within a 3-dimensional spherical bowl that enables them to compute the most probable & optimum interception point. The dimensions of the 3-D bowl are entirely dependent on the mechanically scanning MMR antennae’s max gimbaled movements in azimuth and elevation and these in turn are the final determinants of an AAM’s performance parameters as far as effective range goes. Any aircraft cruising at higher altitudes will have a greater field-of-regard & expanded horizon & will consequently its on-board MMR’s antenna will require far less degree of movement in azimuth & elevation when compared the MMR performance of an aircraft cruising at a lower altitude. Thus, even if an adversary’s BVRAAM can fly a longer distance than an R-77, it will still require mid-course guidance cues from the MMR provided the MMR can keep a Su-30MKI within its field-of-view.

i am assuming the gripen is using PS05/A MARK 3 which is capable of detecting a fighter aircraft from 120 km distance and can see road traffic and count ships at anchor in a harbour at 70 km and Su-30MKI's RLSU-30MK/NO-11M 'Bars' PESA-MMR has a search range of 400 km and a tracking range of 200 km.

and what about the OEPS-30 IRST sensor of Su-30MKI which gives it an indomitable edge for passive engagement ?

and i gave one example , there are many others , but i am weary of the anti spam bot it might ban be again

at end of the day what matters is the pilot behind the seat and how smart he is and most importantly when a real fight does occur between a gripen or a su30mki only then we will be 100% sure.
rest of the time comparative analysis is better taken with a pinch of salt be it for gripen or su30 or f22 or any aircraft.

lets do it for fun or because we r defense nerds or lack a active social life or lack a girlfriend .
no need to loose sleep over it.
cheers

Read the write up

Thailand selected the Gripen specifically because it can handle the Su30MKi in BVR combat

They lay it out very simply for you

Henry240:
Is the A-Darter ready for the Gripen yet? ...... NO. It's all based on the current negotiations Denel has had with PAC and SAAB.
The meteor is a European missile, the PL-10 is a Chinese missile and the JF-17 is a Chinese plane.

The JF-17 carries the SD-10 and can fire the PL-15.


Again, it is clear who is getting value for money.

Yes

A-Darter is ready to go.

You get what you pay for.

Henry240:
Patchesagain congrats to Mbeki for paying 65 million for a JF-17.

I have already shown it to be inferior

But please, tell me the source of your "information"

Lol JF-17 with the same engine is studdenly massively more capable because of the magic powers of writing "Block 2" next to it

Inferiority complexes are unseemly,

Henry240:
What I pay for against what you pay for.


This is what i pay for, for $25 million. JF-17.


That's what you pay for, for $65 million. Gripen C/D.


Even a blind man doesn't need to be told who has gained more value for his money.

Source

Any one can make erroneous info graphics

Henry240:
You are right. I do get what i pay for. So let's compare what i pay for against what you pay for.

What source is this from?

This is riddled with errors

Odunayaw:
Economies of scale They got 6 gripens(might b 12 not checked) and an AWACS
all its neighbors use heavy fighters...without d AWACS there is no way they could have claimed "defence" of themselves
Am not here to bash any plane or sumfn..A gripen is a LCA and yes it is overpriced for its role
I am not forcing it down ur throat

Exactly.

They dont have lots of money, hence pressure to buy cheaper aircarft.

They chose half a squadron of Gripen over a full squadron of something else. That tells you all you need to know.

Also, Gripen can match the Su30MKI without AWACS in a BVR fight
https://www.africandefence.net/angolas-su-30ks-are-not-a-serious-threat-to-the-south-african-air-force/