₦airaland Forum

Obiagu1:
It's a fact. If you fail to join Ibibio and Efik as a group, then the Igbo will become the single major group in the SS.
If Ibibio and Efik are combined, then the Igbo will come second by a narrow margin.

You didn't comprehend what he wrote, because that isn't what he said.


He said "He should not forget that the South South is also made up of predominantly Igbos."

Which is another thing entirely.


And for the record, there isn't any reason that Ibibio and Efik should not be combined into a single group (as they were considered to be in the past) but Ikwerre and Ika, (as an example) should be. This is just about grouping convention,  which is arbitrary and decided by those doing the grouping.

The fact remains however, that his initial statement was bogus.

Justcash:
He should not forget that the South South is also made up of predominantly Igbos.

lol

Ogun could also be a name. (ex: the pre-coronation name of Oba Ewuare of Benin was Ogun.) Interesting discussion about Oyo and Ibadan above. Learned quite a bit.

This is the first I'm hearing about girls being under a lot of pressure. I'm genuinely surprised. Usually it's guys complaining.

lagerwhenindoubt:

Edo Youths (Bini boyz) are the laziest of the lot, followed by Ikwerre boyz then Ogoja boyz, but hey, Bini kingdom is bereft of any impactful employment opportunities as the only industry they have is the Witches and Wizards Industry. I think they should just take this opportunity to enhance their skills in non-militant activities - like babysitter or pastor or even Policeman

Bintus2much:
500 Edo militants seek inclusion in amnesty programme



Chairman of the area, [size=14pt]an Ijaw community[/size], Peter Asama, said the leaders of the community approved the delay in surrendering the weapons till after the presidential election due to “rumours that President Jonathan may be denied victory at the polls.”

Kill yourself. Id[i]i[/i]ot.

Kilode?!:
The Arabs are not ruling the world either.

And because Al-Farabi, Avicenna, Alhazen and co were able to preserve, use or even expand the theories of Ptolemy and Euclid does not mean the Arab world has that deep connection to the foundation of those philosophies.

I will concede that much of these are just wonderings of mine and of course many others who are interested in the question of why we lag behind. It is not hard science and several factors may be responsible apart from the ones I offered in my earlier post.

Read the excerpt below;

Quote
"In Islamic culture, 'philosophy' (in the sense of a continuation Greek philosophy) was somewhat suspect. It never gained a foothold in publically supported educational institutions, it was never well connected with any profession (in contrast with western Europe after the 12th century, where philosophy was the main subject in Arts faculties of the universities). The subject best established in medieval Islamic education was the study of the law (i.e. of the religious law). The extracts from Averroes in the Readings are from The Decisive Treatise Determining the Nature of the Connection between Religion and Philosophy, in which Averroes tries to show (with a readership of lawyers primarily in mind) that philosophy is a legitmate study for Muslims - indeed, that it is the highest form of religion. Like Alfarabi, and like Plato, Averroes envisages a state in which philosophers are the elite. The extracts are from the translation by G.F. Hourani in A. Hyman and J.J. Walsh, Philosophy in the Middle Ages (B721.P48), p. 287 ff)"

Now, I'm not sure how credible the authors are, but the conclusions there supports the assertion that; maybe a deeper cultural connection to the dominant Philosophy (at least the ones driving the knowledge of the age we live in) is necessary for a greater exploitation of the benefits of western science and a deeper appreciation for it's value beyond "paper certificate" bragging  rights. I believe that the closer your are to it culturally and emotionally, the better you will fare and the farther it will drive you


So in essence, despite the exploits of those great Arab Scholars, IMO, their larger society and culture did not really embrace the foundations of those thoughts and sometimes were very hostile towards it. Millions are still hostile.

Interesting. I can see what you're saying. This is a sort of cultural-psychological theory of achievement differences.


But something makes me suspect it's still not a valid excuse.

IMO, Comparing western Europeans and the Greeks is like comparing Yorubas and Igbos or shall I say; Bantus and their different ethnic mix from South Africa to Guinea. The Culture and language might have some differences but they are still very much related.

See, I know gravity existed regardless of who "discovered" it, but it helps if it is explained in your own cultural context and language.

You're right. And the fact that they were already Romanized (and were thus conformable to Greek culture) at the point at which they started to thrive by exploiting Greek achievements, while those Europeans who were not Romanized (Norwegians for example) did not make contributions until much later, does lend some credence to your theory.

Yes, like sex, adding and subtracting are universal skills(hopefully, lol) but culture and beliefs can influence their usage.

And I will also argue that I would've have done better in Calculus if it was taught in Yoruba, that is if I'm not too right brained or suffering from Dyscalculia

You may be right here as well. Indian philosophy involves concepts of infinity and nothingness. Greek philosophy only involved concepts of infinity (the philosopher Zeno, for example). In fact, one Greek philosopher-scientist famously stated "Nature abhors a vacuum". The emphasis on concepts of infinity by the Greek philosophers may have influenced their mathematicians (such as Archimedes, who had ideas that foreshadowed calculus) and may explain why Western mathematicians were able to beat other mathematicians in discovering calculus.


However, it was the Indians, not the Europeans or other groups, that were the ones to introduce the concept of zero as a legitimate number into mathematics. The Greeks never even conceived of the number zero, despite all their intellectual sophistication. I think this might support that cultural theory of yours applying even to mathematics.

On the other hand, Indian mathematicians came close to discovering calculus in almost the same way that European mathematicians did:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_school_of_astronomy_and_mathematics#Infinite_Series_and_Calculus

which suggests that, despite the influence on culture of one's perspective/approach to a science , there are still universal elements/perspectives in that science, regardless of which culture one is operating in.

There are also numerous mathematicians or scientists of non-European origin (ethnically/racially) who have grown up in the Western world and made significant contributions to their fields while operating in a foreign culture.

The best example (though there are others) is Terence Tao:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_Tao
http://www.college.ucla.edu/news/05/terencetaomath.html

Tao is an ethnically Chinese mathematician who is 100% culturally Australian (and therefore Western).

How would you account for that? The greatest recent Chinese mathematician is 100% removed from his culture and is completely a Westerner. This is the kind of phenomenon that supports SEFAGO's idea of certain cultures being beneficial to the exhibition of  (latent) intelligence.

If he (Tao) had been raised in the Middle East (some Chinese are Muslim, so I could imagine a few making a pilgrimage and then sticking around, lol) , we might never have heard of him. I don't think he had to be immersed in Chinese culture and think about mathematics in Chinese in order to make great contributions to his field. He just had to be around the right influences. Unfortunately, for that particular field (mathematics) most of the right influences have a European or Asian origin, so if you were an African . . . .

Yes no one has the monopoly on creating ideas, but one can acquire the advantage to run competitive or different ideologies out of the marketplace of ideas.

Some of the real questions I'm struggling with are hidden somewhere in your statement.

What is stopping us?

How are our cultural beliefs affecting our philosophy and our ability to question and research deeply?

Are there Historical push-backs and prejudices against our philosophical views and ideas?

Does language play a role in our inability to make better use of the western ideas?

Ibn Abi Usaibi, Avicenna, Al Farabi and other ancient Arab scholars and philosophers translated Plato, Aristotle and other Greek thoughts and science into Arabic. I know Europeans had to re-translate the Arabic works and even the names! of these Arab Scholars and preservers of Greek philosophy into Latin based names just to feel more comfortable with them. Language is the vehicle of culture, it makes that "emotional" connection stronger.

Once again, you may be right. If one is to produce uniquely creative ideas, it would almost certainly be harder to do it while starting from the foundation of another group's language or imitating another group's approach. If you have to follow the conventions of another group linguistically, you might even be limiting your thinking to their thinking alone. I see what  you're saying.

Quote
The other point against your argument is, why were the Chinese, Japanese, the Ashkenazi Jews, and some other groups able to do so well in these areas, despite the fact that they did not originally have a cultural or emotional connection to the foundations of Western science and education?

Dunno, BUT;

The Chinese speak Chinese.

The Japanese speak Japanese.

The Ashkenazi Jews "own" the world. We worship their god(s) remember? Wink

The prevalent western focused world-view is chiefly a view through the moral and philosophical lenses of the Judeo-Christian or Abrahamic world, from literarure to philosophy to war conquests and politics. We can also argue same for the Hebrew and Greek philosophical background/foundations of much of present day western thought, it must count for something that they have that connection, I think it helps the Ashkenazi Jews a lot.

At least they got one over my smart grandfather and his Orisa Religion. He didn't see it coming 

Maybe we will get there, maybe we will fully assimilate, not sure, but I think we have a huge disadvantage due to culture, language and a different philosophical world-view from the currently dominant ones.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. It's true that scientific education needs to be made conformable to and complementary to, rather than contradictory to, African cultures and languages. But I still think we should be doing better than we are in most fields even while having to follow the conventions/thinking of others.

Yes, we need to try harder at adapting and assimilating. I guess we are still evolving.

The world is probably still very young bro, I bet there is still a lot to discover, we might have to wait around a few more millennias to know where the pendulum will swing, maybe we will zoom ahead eventually  Undecided

Our competitors ain't silly though. I don't bet on them slowing down to give us a chance to catch up and blend in.



And this is just to scare ekt-bear in-case he stumbles on my post ->: We might need to "re-invent the wheel" or at least soup it up to our taste

Yeah, we'll see how things turn out.

If 40 years from  now, things haven't changed and we're still several steps behind, it will all but prove your theory right and we (I) would need to take steps to change our education.

Maybe he's a future business man and didn't want the foundation of his future fortune to come from exploiting a situation relating to a terrorist that killed thousands. Maybe he wanted to start out in a more "legitimate" way rather than capitalizing on a situation (revenge against Osama Bin Laden) that should be treated more seriously than these t-shirts might suggest.

That's the only somewhat defensible reason.


The reason he actually gave was complete and utter nonsense. If Hitler had been successfully assassinated, would the celebration over his death that would have ensued have been "evil"?

This kid is the dumbest of dumbasses.

ekt_bear:
Why do you say that? Offensive to Americans, or offensive to jihadists? Or for returning the money?

Returning the money.



Total dumbass.

^^^^^

wtf


remove that picture now. . .


([size=4pt]why hasn't this guy been banned yet[/size])

ekt_bear:
Jakumo is no doubt connected to this, one way or another

lol

Rhino.5dm:

Gowon said the life of a child raised in Kano was worth less than the life of an American or European child, so Pfizer should pay Kano less money in compensation for the medical trials that resulted in the deaths of Kano children.

hackney (nairaland)


A very avuncular individual.

tpia@:
Also, the fact that some are styling themselves self- proclaimed experts on whatever they post, without any real rebuttal from those actually in the know, doesnt add any authenticity to the threads in question.

I definitely agree with this.

damn

ekt_bear:
(AP) – 13 hours ago
BAUCHI, Nigeria (AP) — Police say attackers killed at least 16 people and burned down 20 houses in a northern Nigerian town with a history of sectarian violence.
The Bauchi state police chief told The Associated Press on Friday that the attack took place around dawn near Tafawa Balewa town.
Amanam Abakasanga said most of the victims are of[b] the Sayawa ethnic group comprised mainly of Christians.
The Sayawas are in the majority in the town and its surrounding villages, but their traditional rulers have been of the predominantly Muslim Fulani ethnic group.
The Sayawas have demanded a separate traditional ruler, which has led to attacks and counterattacks over the past two decades.[/b]
Copyright © 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gJHMdlgvhFU1gfaBpBr0QPB8WfzQ?docId=d4279500ad604d2c91939cbd7b4b0815

wtf


kick him out


How can he be a legitimate ruler if the people don't want him

Beaf:
According to history (Yoruba and Edo) the Alaafin is way superior to the Ooni.

Could you elaborate?

There is no doubt that the Alaafin of Oyo had no authority over the Ooni of Ife and that the Alaafin of Oyo did not have authority over all the Yoruba kings as claimed, but there also seems to be no real evidence that the Ooni of Ife had any authority over the Alaafin of Oyo (see Chapter 7 of Robin Law's book on Oyo)

I'm referring instead to a specific contradiction in the paper, not the overall claim.

The cross bearer from Benin, if he actually is a messenger, was not a messenger from Ife, but rather a messenger from Benin to Ife that returns to Benin and was not be an ordinary slave, but an official. Furthermore there are multiple pieces of artwork from both Ife and Benin that depict prominent, clearly non-slave individuals with those same cat's whisker marks.

Also, if the kingdom to which that cross bearing messenger was sent was northeast of Benin as the Portuguese were told, then I do not see how that messenger's marks would be relevant to a discussion of the Ife/Oyo dispute since that messenger would instead be going to or coming back from the Igala kingdom (Idah or its predecessor), rather than Ife (which is to the west).

zstranger:
If any of the Yoruba traditional rulers is to be asso-
ciated with a slave origin, the Alaafin of Oyo would be the most
likely candidate, in the light of the origin of their facial mark-
ings. The abaja markings for which they are known, as mentioned
above, developed from the "cat's whiskers." In the praise songs of
the rulers of both Ife and Oyo, the cat's whiskers are considered a
slave mark.36 It is also the mark borne by the figure of the
cross-bearer, which in Benin art has been identified as the mes-
senger from Ife.37 It is the prevalence of the mark in the Niger
Benue confluence that made Ryder suggest that the kingdom of the
overlord of Benin when the Portuguese arrived was northeast of Benin
according to the direction the Benin people pointed to as its loca-
tion.38

@ zstranger, you don't see a glaring contradiction here?


I could go into detail about why this is bogus, but for the record, the cat's whiskers mark is obviously not a slave mark.

It's unlikely that any king anywhere in Nigeria is descended from a slave.

The kid's a dumbass

Kilode?!:
I kinda think it's about culture too, but in a different way. I think our lack of that deep cultural and emotional connection to the Ideological/Philosophical foundations of "Western" science and much of Western Education is responsible for the lag. Like if you did not create it, you may not appreciate the reason behind it.

I do not have hard facts that I can link you to right now, but I wonder about this a lot; The effect of borrowed languages, our cultural and religious intolerance for Scientific and philosophical skepticism e.t.c

I disagree. The Arabs didn't create Greek science, but they definitely improved upon it and appreciated it.

The Western Europeans didn't create Greek science or Islamic science, but they improved upon it and appreciated it to the point that we casually assume that they are its founders or that they have some sort of closer relationship than others to ideas and truths that would always exist regardless of whether they (the Western Europeans) ever existed.

In mathematics, for example, can somebody who wants to be a mathematician fail to have a deep appreciation and connection to math simply because it's garbed in the language of a different culture? I can't see that happening. The knowledge in that field is too universal.

And nobody has a monopoly on creating philosophy or ideology, either. There's nothing stopping significant African (Nigerian, specifically) philosophers/ideologues/social theorists from emerging.

The other point against your argument is, why were the Chinese, Japanese, the Ashkenazi Jews, and some other groups able to do so well in these areas, despite the fact that they did not originally have a cultural or emotional connection to the foundations of Western science and education?

We just need to adapt to the race and global competition. Like they said, it's like we're being left behind while the world moves past us.

zstranger:
I am not angry at all. The point is we have not really achieved much, PRACTICALLY,  with the 'pali' we are always eager to parade.

How many patents do we have, collectively, compared to others? And, even beyond that how have the so called 'highly educated' ones amongst us impact the community they live in,  here or back home. Over the years, even before Clarence Page's article came out dubbing Immigrant Africans as model minority, it was evident to every one that Africans, as a whole, and Nigerians in particular parade lotsa degrees with very little to show for it in terms numbers of high value publications, patents, inventions, and even, no offense intended,  WRT original ideas. We just seem in-capable of translating our class-room smarts into real-life smarts that could be beneficial to others.

My point is that relative to others, eg the Indians, who have been able to produce people like Ramachandran et al, Tata Motors and Nanos etc.,we are just lacking behind, satisfied with shyyty/ subliminally deriding accolades like model minority, and getting into Harvard in trickles, while the rest of the world move past us developmentally.

You're right.

It's sad.

Anyways, while I was looking for Caribbean scientists, I did come across several Nigerians.

Like this Fayé Briggs fellow, a Nigerian American who seems to have [url=http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/bios?n=Faye%20A.%20Briggs&f=Fellows]some original contributions[/url] in his field.

Overall you really are right though. I can't explain it. It's like, in science and applications of science, those of us who choose that path just don't try hard enough.

I think it has something to do with the title obsessed culture of Nigeria and that title loving mentality that could rub off on youth. If you feel like a big man after you get  your graduate degree and feel like you've "made it," are you really going to strive as hard in science or technology to outshine everybody? I think Nigerian culture (s) may in some sense hinder Nigerians from trying to develop a very high level of competitiveness, like Europeans, Asians, Americans, etc.

(edited: lots of mistakes)

https://www.lacma.org/collection/images/african/gallery/africa-plaque-000x360-lg.jpg

Nigeria, Benin Kingdom

Plaque

17th century

Bronze
18 3/4 in.

An interesting article I came across:



The Myth of Black Immigrant Privilege


I don't agree with all of it, but it was well-argued.

@ SEFAGO

Here are some Carribeans:


1.

http://www.math.buffalo.edu/mad/physics/alexander_stephon.html

http://www.haverford.edu/faculty/salexand

https://www.haverford.edu/physics-astro/alexander/

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/field/explorers/stephon-alexander.html



2.


http://web.mit.edu/provost/sef-directory/profiles/e1000057.html

http://web.mit.edu/invent/iow/warde.html

3.

http://www.math.buffalo.edu/mad/physics/walker_arthurbc.html

4.

http://physics.usc.edu/Faculty/Johnson/

http://www.math.buffalo.edu/mad/PEEPS/johnson_cliffordv.html

Those are a few, but I'm pretty sure there are more, except that they don't show that they have Carribean origins. Also, I only posted faculty from a few areas. . .I may have been wrong about the numbers, but they're definitely producing quality. . .

I have not read that paper by Lani Guinier.


I'll look up some names of some Caribbeans, but Lani Guinier is one to start with.

https://web.prm.ox.ac.uk/rpr/components/com_joomgallery/img_originals/the_farnham_collection_2/rethinking_pitt-rivers_image_20091111_1476497801.jpg


9. Title: Ivory face from Benin (Plate XXI, 'The Pitt-Rivers Museum, Farnham')
(Gallery / Category: The Farnham Collection)
Description: Ivory face from Benin (Plate XXI, 'The Pitt-Rivers Museum, Farnham: General Handbook' 1929) ,

Source: Rethinking Pitt-Rivers | Search

https://web.prm.ox.ac.uk/rpr/components/com_joomgallery/img_originals/the_farnham_collection_2/add_9455vol6_p1989_20100318_2051910508.jpg

8. Title: Benin figure Add.9455vol6_p1989
(Gallery / Category: The Farnham Collection)

Source: Rethinking Pitt-Rivers | Search

https://web.prm.ox.ac.uk/rpr/components/com_joomgallery/img_originals/the_farnham_collection_2/add_9455vol6_p1991_3_20100322_1893882635.jpg


6. Title: Benin vessel Add.9455vol6_p1991 /3
(Gallery / Category: The Farnham Collection)
Description: Benin vessel 1975.7.2 / Add.9455vol6_p1991 /3 ,

Source: Rethinking Pitt-Rivers | Search

https://web.prm.ox.ac.uk/rpr/components/com_joomgallery/img_originals/the_oxford_collection_1/1975_7_2_20100322_2058205601.jpg


5. Title: Benin vessel 1975.7.2
(Gallery / Category: The Oxford Collection)
Description: Add.9455vol6_p1991 /3

Source: Rethinking Pitt-Rivers | Search