₦airaland Forum

SEFAGO:
Where are these studies? Most of these studies suggest high academic achievement of immigrants relative to minorities of the same race i.e Africans and Carribeans doing quite well in the UK (with black african girls achieving equivalent GCSE to white males) and US (Where Africans are proprtionally overrepresented in elite colleges).

No study explicitly (That I am aware off) compares the IQs of Nigerians in the west to that of Whitse or Asians.

True, true. I was operating under the assumption that there was a correlation between I.Q. scores and educational attainment , but I don't have any direct proof (not even SAT scores, which would obviously correlate with I.Q.) of what I would need to say undoubtedly that African immigrants would score about the same on I.Q. tests as Asian and White counterparts. My mistake, on that one.

For one, the question is why were there less women in the sciences mathematics before?

I think that was the premise for his statement. What exactly prevented and still prevents women from pursuing hard sciences and engineering doctoral degrees even now where gender discrimination has become less and less of an issue (in America and Europe anyways?)

Also why are more women in the biological sciences and less in the hard science and engineering fields? Like can you claim discrimination occurs in one while discrimination is nonexistent in the other?

I don't deny that men and women are wired differently, to pursue different things, but I think it's a mis-characterization to call it a difference in "intelligence" (using the standard interpretation of that word).  I still recall two of my high school teachers, both female and around their 50s, - one had a master's in Economics and the other a masters in mathematics (they were like the head teachers basically), and although they loved their subjects with a passion, when they described their history and background in class, it became obvious that they had never even once thought about (not even considered as a real option) research in the subjects that they loved. They bagged their degrees and moved immediately into the professional world. Yet both were highly intelligent. I think they were fine with having a passion for something without having the ego to feel the need to reach a certain "prestigious" level in their fields. I think this isn't unusual among women. And some will be fine without the master's, and so on.

SEFAGO:
No thats why I said that was the best I could find. However, I had a source which I closed- that indicated that a recent survey showed as far back as 2000 that half of the PhDs in Mathematics were awarded to black women. I would wager that the number has significantly increased.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/3134128?seq=2

Currently yes. But more Black women are enrolling in doctoral programs. How do I know this- well at first it was more anecdotal and from skimming through research groups at various universities. When you see a black face its bound to be a girl/woman.

In terms of whether they are more represented in the social sciences/humanities relative to the STEM field there is no current proof- which I am sure you would be unable to provide yourself- that the distribution of black men in STEM is larger than that of women except of course anecdotes.

Also what field are you talking about- dont forget that the number of blacks getting Physics and Chemistry Phds are really small. I know for Physics men outnumber women but for chemistry/biology/engineering this is not the case.

Spelman college is the second most common baccalaureate origin for most blacks getting PhDs. This is after Howard.

I see. Interesting info.

I was actually including all engineering, plus physics, math, and chemistry. I didn't consider biology because I wouldn't know, but I guess I was thinking more about research than just people with Ph.D's.  However, you might be right, the trend could be changing and more and more African American women could be going into research. Which is a good thing, because if the men, don't do it, somebody's got to show that they're capable of rising up from the past and pursuing careers that their non-black peers pursue.

[quote author=EzeUche_ link=topic=599800.msg7715466#msg7715466 date=1297466289]I kind of enjoyed that speech.  Was he lying though?

Too bad he still seen as an Igbo traitor. But this speech shows he was a complex individual. Igbo pride.  [/quote]I certainly can't say that he was lying because I don't know what he or the Igbo were going through at that time, but my personal opinion was that the bombast and rhetorical heights that he went to, even if for the purpose of uplifting his people in a speech, did not seem to be appropriate to his position as the supposedly unbiased aspiring independence leader of a whole nation. Even if he were seen as the leader of the Igbo by his own people and they expected some special statement from him with regard to the Igbos, he should have used caution and only dashed out a palm full of self-aggrandizing chauvinism like Awolowo did with his comments about the Yorubas, Igbos, and Hausa-Fulani, rather than the bucketful that he poured out in that speech.

I understand that there was a pogrom against Igbos in 1945 among other conflicts, and I see that the British newspapers had already picked up on the hate for Igbos by some groups and was mentioning it as a fact with no regards to the sensitivities of the Igbos, so Zik's viewpoint of victimization could have been justified, but the rest of it and the way he expressed it was kind of off-putting. That much ethnic self-glorification and aggrandizement would earn anybody contempt, I think.


If you can find a speech by Herbert Macaulay, Akintola, Awolowo, or Enahoro, or the Sardauna, or Balewa, which goes to such lengths about their respective ethnic groups, I might change my opinion about the speech, but as of now it just seems excessive to me. Love and praise of one's ethnic group is never a bad thing, but moderation, especially as a public figure, and as a uniting figure, is necessary, in my opinion.

I still don't see how Zik could have given that speech and expected to win the Western region. It was so ethnically loaded and so over the top with an ethnic agenda. I was shocked.

I think he really just wanted to bask in the glory of Igbo state assembly admirers praising his masterful oratory in praise of Igbos.

SEFAGO:
Hmm there isn't much data. The best I could find was this:

http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/58_decline_in_doctorates.html

Does it say what areas the doctorates are in? I was only countering your claim with regard to science.

I don't mean to deny that psychology, literature, etc. would see African American men getting trounced by the females, but when you look around for African American scientists, its overwhelmingly men, really.

lol, Only Lynn and Rushton, where's Jensen? You shouldn't separate the troika. Pseudoscience is to be absorbed whole, not piecemeal, if you really want to get an idea of the field.

Aren't these the same goons that said the average I.Q. (not education level, not literacy level, not familiarity with Western science and learning, mind you, but the so called "g factor" or intellectual potential) of Ghana was like 71 and Nigeria's was 67?     Aren't these the same clowns who swear that African Americans have an IQ 15 points higher than sub-Saharan Africans merely by being in the West or mixing with other races, despite glaring evidence to the contrary? Aren't these the same clowns (Rushton, especially) who just fantastically assert that moving into Eurasia, where there is winter, made other groups have to perform more challenging and complex tasks to survive that resulted in higher intelligence/big ol' brains without actually giving any convincing evidence of what these specific tasks were and what actual processes could have led to the specific changes they claim occurred? And without showing or providing any evidence that there were no huge challenges to adapting to different African environments after migrations or showing that it was much easier to survive without employing any thought or performing challenging tasks in Africa than in Eurasia? These guys are not scientists my friend. You know good and well that they are psychologists with a good grasp of statistics and a poor grasp of reality, history, and even the countries and populations they claim to scientifically study. Crackpot "psychometricians" should not be used as a source to back up claims.

70? 67?

30+ points below whites?

Meanwhile, every study of educational attainment and test scores puts Nigerians and Ghanians in the U.K. and U.S. and other countries on about equal footing with their white counterparts,  - a phenomenon which could not possibly be explained by the so-called Flynn effect, as the Flynn effect can't result in a 30-35 point I.Q. jump (2 or more standard deviations if we take st. dev = 15) in one's children just from moving to a more intellectually enriching and stimulating country.


Also, how can anyone say women were really trying to win the Fields medal for eight decades? Do you really even believe women have been "trying" to win it since before the late sixties, when societies around the world started to change and it became less unusual for women to go into such fields? Also, when you have a small population to begin with (I mean the population of female research mathematicians is much much smaller than the male one) how can you win it anyway when you make up 5-10% at most (being generous, just for the sake of the argument) and the group you're supposed to outdo makes up 90-95%? Think about this logically.

Also, five points? What are the error bounds, for those I.Q. estimates for the 20,000 tests taken? And is five points significant?

Hold on, searching for evidence.

You're not going to find any. Most of the African American scientists and researchers are and will continue to be men, it's just that their ratio is not as lopsided as other groups because the men are slacking to some degree in pursuing those fields.

Lol, are men actually smarter? Or do the smart men just have bigger egos and more pride than the smart women, which drives them to compete and go to unusual lengths to prove their smartness? I would take this view.


[size=5pt]Or is SEFAGO just trying to start a war of the sexes? [/size]

SEFAGO:
^ Yeah traitors. Even more disturbing is that there are more black women in engineering and science PhDs than black men. Usually men dominate science and engineering since we are more analytical and pragmatic than women. However the reverse is the case for blacks in the US.

However Men dominate in naija so that all that matters.

Which Ph.D's? I don't think that's actually true. Maybe more African American women in undergrad, but I'm skeptical of this Ph.D claim. If you actually try to look up African American (non-African, non-Carribean, etc) professors or find African American researchers at companies, you mostly see men, so I don't know how true this could be.

There wasn't much difference between the socio-political organization of the Igbo and the Tiv, really. I wonder what makes some groups lean towards different kinds of government, culture, etc.?

Unless I can find some blood or intermarriage link that the Tivs and the Igbos, share, I would have to rule out the genetic argument. I still can't put my finger on it, though.

[quote author=EzeUche_ link=topic=599800.msg7714789#msg7714789 date=1297458821]Exactly at the bolded statement. Never in the history of the Igbo people have we ever wage war with the Ijaws or any other Eastern groups except for the Aro who invaded Ibibioland to found Arochukwu.

For the most part, the East had cultural diffusion, in which mutual respect reigned supreme. Even when the colonialist were in charge, there was still a mutual respect found in the region. That all changed after the civil war. The modern Nigerian state destroyed a lot of the linkages, between the Igbos and the minority groups. Centuries of bonding was destroyed in one generation.

What makes matters worse, is that the minorities of the region are used as pawns by outside forces to become hostile against the Ndigbo who for the most part have treated them as brothers. I will reiterate that no where in Igbo history have we dominated any other group.

The same cannot be said of the Hausa, Yoruba or Bini. [/quote]It wasn't just the civil war, actually. The very creation of regions is what created the schism. The Eastern region was created in 1939, and by 1948 there were already calls for it to be broken up from minorities who would normally have no qualms with Igbos when completely independent of them. The colonialists messed up long established relationships and curtailed local independence just to constrict groups into unions that they would never naturally find themselves in. It's kind of like someone coming and physically tying/binding you to your best friend, so that everything each person does is dependent on the other to achieve any progress. You might love your friend, but you know you would prefer to have your own freedom, even if your friend was so strong he could carry you up mountains without you having to expend even the littlest effort. Why? Simply because it's a fundamental part of human nature to desire freedom and independence to its fullest extent.

As for "no where in Igbo history have we dominated any other group" I think you clearly contradicted yourself there.   I don't know what you think an invasion of Ibibioland is, but it's not exactly a tea party.

And you specifically left out the numerous other groups in the regions besides Hausa, Yoruba, or Bini, who actually weren't dominating anyone but got screwed by the forced unions and became enemies of or antagonistic to people they would ordinarily have no problem with. (see Urhobos, for example)


On an unrelated note, Zik seems to think the Igbos were one of the few groups in Africa to "escape" the conqueror's sword of another African group, when there were actually many African groups that could say the same; read p. 242: http://books.google.com/books?id=Iec7AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA243&lpg=PA243&dq=the+martial+progress+of+the+igbo+nation+zik&source=bl&ots=2KoTKUCHT5&sig=WJ6-nsa5Hr2rRs3g0uVYR_MP2LU&hl=en&ei=v6hVTZ3AEc73gAeG1tynDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false)

Zik took rhetoric to such heights that he lost sight of the ground. You have to respect his oratory skill, but he said some fanciful stuff sometimes.

redsun:
than in college,how true is it?Is it also true that if one is done for 2 crimes,d third one,no matter how trivial will mean a life sentence in america?

I'm pretty sure that's flat out false, but I can't be bothered to dig up the statistics.


Also, I think it's three felonies, not just three crimes.

jason123:
Chei! I have never seen you this angry! . Take am easy ooo. We are all brothers in this hell-hole called Nigeria.

I'm not at all angry.   That's just politics, not anger. You ever watch any political shows, any debates between political/history commentators?

In fact, as far as this board goes, that was very polite conversation.

We are all brothers as black Africans, but as far as Nigeria, I think we know that the best truly different groups can really hope for is a distant respect for each other and tolerance. But brotherhood? Nigeria wasn't set up to allow that, really. Only antagonism. Think about it. For 500+ years, Edos, Yorubas, Itsekiris, Urhobos and Ijaws got along just fine and some were even very close. Then the Western region of Nigeria was created and all sorts of ethnic politics and land disputes started and the groups grew apart. You can thank Nigeria for that.    The same could be said about the Eastern region, even.

alex101:
@physicsMHD

Let me tell you one thing, you claim that I fail to address you directly in a thread or two, well child, I'm sorry for not noticing you, even with all your long essays on NL . I'm not on NL 24/7 to notice anyone and frankly I don't give and "eff" about haters like you. I'm here to state my case and hope that my people in particular (Ndigbo) that follow this site will learn a thing or two from it. People like you want others to come into a debate with open mind and accept your statement as facts while you already have a closed mind and will not accept others' case as facts, hence your childish temper tantrums. I 'm not in a popularity contest with you, keep your contest to your miserable self. Let the dead RIP. If you want to keep your civil war debate eternal, write a book on how you "crushed" biafra and how "CRIMINALS"(your word not mine) like Fajuyi and Ironsi hijacked leadership.
Again, Ojukwu should be the least of you and your peoples worries. Prepare for a nearby problem that is very real in this age. Fulani cattles are starving and they need to be grazed, they may find your land suitable for grazing . I know a fool at 40 when I see one, judging by their hate and long post(s). Keep on salivating at the words "Igbo, Biafra, Ojukwu" with all that "white" in your stinking mouth. You claim you were done with this thread but like a typical "one nigerianists" you couldn't even agree with your "hate infested" self.                                                                                                                                            
Now child, write one of your long essays (thesis),,,,,,,,,, me I get life and work. I was done with this miserable thread a long time ago, but haters like you won't let go. I am done and I am keeping my word as a MAN, you are hereby free to throw all the insults you want. Finally, RIP to Ironsi, Fajuyi, Ahmadu Bellow, Balewa, Okotie and all those who died in Jan'66 and July'66 coup. If you don't like it, go sip on concentrated acid and come back on to le me know how it taste (that is ofcourse if you still have the guts)

"The ranting of an ant". Old man, shut up and take your PMS somewhere else, I wasn't the one who came in here all emotional and calling people "eediots" and I didn't force anyone to take my statements as fact. In fact, before you came in here I was having civil back and forth discussions and had already even admitted that I got some things wrong. And for the record "Igbo, Biafra, Ojukwu" topics flooding this forum is not by my doing and as someone with an interest in history I can comment on whatever I want. Not a one-Nigerianist, for the record, so keep your whiny insecure drivel to yourself.

Also, the Fulanis are causing mayhem in Benue right now. Guess what states are right under Benue? (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-603027.128.html#msg7714508)    If I need to be worried about Fulani, you probably ought to be as worried, if not more, buddy. And please, don't spew anymore of these pathetic emotional tantrums anywhere near my direction; they make you sound like an emotionally abused b-itch.

Aigbofa:
Fajuyi was a criminal? And why so much expletives for people who didn't share your views?
Is everyone who doesn't share your views an unthinking goat? Na wa for you o!

I should not have used the word criminal, that was harsh and a mis-characterization, but I still don't see why that man would let himself be appointed governor and weaken the legitimacy of Ironsi's administration, knowing he was tied to the plotters if he were a friend and loyal soldier to Ironsi.

How can someone assist those seeking to overthrow the government of a country by force and then after the brutal and bungled overthrow fails, take up a position serving under the officer who jailed them and who might soon see them prosecuted? Whichever side he's on, he's at fault. If he's on the side of the Nigerian state as a country and the side of the law, he allowed them to do what they did with a pretty good idea of what they would do. If he's on the side of the coup plotters he betrayed them and then went on to take up a prominent government position. Given that lack of integrity, why is this man lionized so much?

The expletives were not for everyone who doesn't share my views, but for annoying revisionists who foam at the mouth when their views are countered. When revisionists approach things in a civil manner, or when somebody more knowledgeable or with a better reasoned argument than myself (and there are many such people on this board, I admit), presents their views in a civil manner, you won't see the barrage of expletives.

The coward who couldn't address me directly multiple times in two threads out of fear that I would immediately shut down the nonsense it would spew when it called me out specifically is here talking about bravery.   Hilarious.

40? Good too know how old and jobless some of fools on this forum are, clearly fools do indeed remain fools for a long time. It's irrational to spoil for war with unfounded claims about a "position of power" while surrounded and outgunned, and when the very reason for caution (lack of possible support by allies) and the need to proceed diplomatically is pointed out to one unequivocally and clearly. Did anyone talk about Ojukwu's supposed "ambition"? I didn't, anyways, so I don't need to be grouped with such people. I'll let revisionists twist known words to support their delusions and sit back and stick to reality.

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of the battle. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
- Sun Tzu



God this country needs to split.

Why does every brainless loon get internet access? Imagine some morons having a positive view of Fajuyi (basically a criminal, who should have been in jail rather than a governor) but having a negative view of Ogundipe, a man who was screwed in every which way and still tried to restore order until the situation was out of his hands. That's just as dumb as glorifying Adekunle.  I tire to be of the same country with such brainless, idio-tic, unthinking goats. I can't wait for Nigeria to split so that the different distortionists can write their own fables and keep them to themselves.

Anyways, I'm done with this thread; no new real info recently, just babble.

Onlytruth:
Posted by: PhysicsMHD
The coup failed at Enugu. BOTTOMLINE.  

Wise counsel on Murtala to stay away from Enugu also helped save the July coup.
You talk as if you don't know Ojukwu.
Murtala Muhammed was one of the worst military men of that time. He was not Ojukwu's match and would have certainly been defeated by Ojukwu in Enugu.

Those who knew better sitting in Lagos advised him.

What are you talking about? I was only correcting your distortion with regards to Ogundipe somehow being able to do what Ojukwu did. Just admit that your idea of what the West could have done following the July 1966 coup is just silly.

The coup was supposed to be carried out by Shehu Yar'Adua and one other guy but they failed. Ojukwu could easily have been killed if he was dumb enough to stick around in Enugu but the armory was sealed and those that tried to access it were successfully prevented from doing so, that's why it failed. If they had succeeded in breaking into the armory and arming the Northern soldiers there, and Ojukwu had stayed in Enugu, Ojukwu would have been killed.

As for Murtala being restrained, I doubt those that advised him did it out of any fear of Ojukwu or the unarmed Eastern soldiers that were returning there after the killings in other parts of the country. From my perspective it had more to do with legitimizing the counter coup as a restoration to order after Ironsi's misrule and not just an unending attack on the East. If they had marched on the East to butcher even more innocent Eastern soldiers after already getting some of the Jan coup plotters and also killing so many innocent Eastern and Southern soldiers, there's no way they could have packaged it the way they did and propped up Gowon and his backers as some sort of supposed compromise from full Northern domination and control of the country.

Onlytruth:
@PhysicsMHD

Nzeogwu in Prison

For his role in Nigeria's first military coup, Nzeogwu was imprisoned by the military regime of Major-General Aguiyi-Ironsi at the notorious Kiri-Kiri maximum security prison in Lagos.  His co-conspirators were also initially detained there but many of them were later moved to prisons in the Eastern Region: including Majors Ifeajuna (Uyo prison), Ademoyega, Onwuatuegwu (Enugu prison), Captain Gbulie (Abakaliki prison), Major Chukwuka, Captain Nwobosi (both Owerri prison).  Nzeogwu was the only officer among the plotters that was moved to Aba prison.  After Ironsi was overthrown in July 1966, Nzeogwu remained in prison until he was released in March 1967 by the Eastern Region's Military Governor Lt-Colonel Ojukwu.  
http://www.kwenu.com/publications/siollun/2009/who_killed_major_nzeogwu.htm

So how couldn't Ojukwu have used these guys if necessary?

As for the coup plotters, many were in the east, so you're correct on that part.

Apart from the simple fact that they (Jan. 1966 plotters) were criminals and the East was not yet in a survival mind state as to be relying on them, there is the glaring fact that a man (Ojukwu) who had helped crush the coup they were involved in would not now play right into the counter coup plotters' hands and associate himself with the January coup plotters and give the counter coup plotters reason to be hellbent on eliminating him no matter the cost as they did Fajuyi (who was complicit in the Jan 1966 coup).

Onlytruth:
Posted by: PhysicsMHD

Do you see any contradictions in the bolded?
A fair commentator would say "Ojukwu rushed to Onitsha, or Ojukwu went to Ontisha". He has going for weapons wasn't he? Did you see him near any NNS or SEME?

And let me help complete the logic you left out.

The coup could have started failing in the East for real, hence the caution. Ojukwu could have rallied remnants of the January plotters (Nzeogwu and co) to not only defeat Murtala in Enugu, but pursue him to Lagos and the seat of government.
There was no war yet then remember? They were still ALL NIGERIANS. No Biafrans yet.

So think and be fair in your analysis.

?  

Going for weapons? He could have done the same thing at Enugu but he left because Enugu was at risk and he was to be killed (as military governor) just like Fajuyi was if the other coup plotters went to the East and rallied the Northern soldiers there to take Enugu. A sensible decision on Ojukwu's part to flee, but he had a luxury some other people in the West didn't have courtesy of the coup being stopped at Enugu. Had the northern soldiers succeeded in actualizing Murtala's instructions to complete the coup, Ojukwu would have been a dead man, and the East open for play. That's what a fair commentator would have realized (what you refused to acknowledge).

I don't see how its unfair to state that but it's somehow fair to imply that Ogundipe just ran for the border, which is simply false.

And Nzeogwu was jailed in Kiri-kiri, Lagos and the January plotters were somewhat spread around the country.

Onlytruth:
Let me ask this question again:

If Ojukwu whose fellow eastern brothers were almost wiped out in the army stood his ground and even negotiated the most widely acknowledged accord in the history of Nigeria, why did Ogundipe head for SEME border, abi na NNS Nigeria, even when the Yoruba was NOT under any attack?

And why did they want to flee the army en masse?

Actually, Ojukwu fled to Onitsha and stockpiled arms after the July 1966 counter coup. Murtala was prevented from "marching on the East" by more cautious coup members when they learned that the July counter coup had failed in the East. Had he attacked early on, the coup might have been successful in the East.

The Westerners did not really have such an option of building up a resistance since the counter coup was immediately successful in the West and had its genesis in the West. It's pretty simple, from my point of view, how their hands were tied.

The police fu-cked up. Why shoot protesters? If they get too close, move back in your vehicles and use tear gas or something.


Also, what's the real difference between Ikole and Oye? Somebody from Ekiti tell me.

lol@ Jakumo

Given the extent to which the existing Nigerian universities are backed up and jammed full,  and the commendable manner in which the VC's were appointed without regard to ethnicity, I would actually have to commend this move. Props to GEJ on this one.

They are indeed masters of double speak. There's nothing barbaric about it really. Japanese had hara-kiri and seppoku but I bet they would never call that barbaric. It was common for men of extremely high social status to commit suicide when completely and totally disgraced in some cultures.

Alright, I'm done. Let the original derailer have the last word if he wishes. I won't even bother reading or responding to whatever nonsense pops up next.

Justcash:

CAN YOU POINT OUT ANY OF MY STATEMENTS IN BOLD THAT IS NOT TRUE?
DID THE BRITISH NOT COLLUDE WITH YOUR FORE-FATHERS TO QUELL A SITUATION THAT WOULD HAVE LEFT THEM (BRITISH) WITHOUT CONTROL OF A PART OF NIGERIA? GO AND READ ABOUT THE ROLE OF THE BRITISH IN ETHNO- POLITICAL SEGREGATION IN NIGERIA, AND THEIR INTENSE EFFORT TO EXTERMINATE THE EAST (IF POSSIBLE) THROUGH THE NORTH AND WEST, JUST TO GAIN CONTROL OF THE OIL RICH EASTERN REGION.
[b]WAS NIGERIA'S POLITICAL SYSTEM DOMINATED BY YOUR FORE-FATHERS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ROT IN EVERY ASPECT OF NIGERIA?
IF YOU MUST KNOW, I DON'T LIKE NNAMDI AZIKIWE AND OTHER EASTERN MORONS THAT JOINED YOUR FORE-FATHERS AND HAUSA'S TO KEEP NIGERIA AS ONE. I HATE ALL OF THEM.
FOR A SECOND AND LAST TIME, I AM NOT BEING TIBALISTIC. I AM STATING WHAT IS OBVIOUS.
I ALSO AM NOT READY TO DESCEND TO YOUR LEVEL TO EXCHANGE ETHNIC BULLCRAPS.

ANYWAY ABOUT THE "COWARD" PART. YOU REALLY VIEWED IT AS BEING REFERRED TO YOU AND YOUR FORE-FATHERS. WITH SUCH A NATURAL FEELING FROM YOU, ONE CANNOT DOUBT THE AUTHENTICITY OF THAT STATEMENT BEING A TRUE REFLECTION OF YOUR BEING AND HEREDITY.  [/b]

Hilarious. A baboon like you telling me to go and read. Who are my forefathers? Name them. What political system did they dominate? Imagine some buffoon talking about cowardice of people whose lives he knew nothing about. A pea-brained oaf like you thinking I was from a group (Yoruba? Does this buffoon actually think I'm Yoruba?) that "dominated" the politics of this country along with Hausas and then claiming you're not here to exchange ethnic insults when you clearly accuse specific ethnic groups (which I don't belong to) of dominating the politics of a country and leading to the rot in *every* aspect of that country. Throw yourself off a mountain with no parachute and stop pretending to know anything. You're just too dumb to successfully mask your pathetic tribalism and too loudmouthed to successfully mask your stupidity.

fstranger3:
When will all these crap about Lagos stop?

Dangote wants Lagos
Hausas claim Alausa. Ikeja is theirs
Igbos claim they make up 90% of Lagos
Now Benin people want to annex Lagos

Why people?  Why is everyone but the Yoruba people going crazy about Lagos?

Do you all like us like that?


Why dont you expend more energy into developing your own enclaves like the Yorubas did to Lagos? Why is that so difficult to do?ARRGH

It pains you, my son?

Benin people are already in Lagos, they aren't claiming it.

I'm claiming it, so as to ease tensions between Yorubas and Igbos. I'm kind of a visionary like that.

I'm doing you a favor.  You'll never have to argue with another Igbo about political and economic control of Lagos again, because you'll both just be under my dominion. 

I accept your thanks in advance.

Justcash:

IT MAY DISAPPOINT YOU TO KNOW THAT I MEANT ALL THE LEADERS. YOUR TINY TRIBALISTIC BRAIN WILL NOT MAKE YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT.  HOWEVER, IN NIGERIA'S HISTORY, SOME REGIONS HAD BRITAIN'S BLESSING OVER OTHERS DUE TO THEIR EASE OF CONTROL. [b]THE NORTH AND WEST WERE MORE CONTROLLABLE TO THE BRITISH THAN THE EAST, HENCE MY STATEMENT THAT YOUR FORE-FATHERS WERE READY TO DIE JUST TO ALLOW THE BRITISH TO MAINTAIN THEIR CONTROL OVER NIGERIA, JUST BECAUSE IT FAVORED THEM.
THAT IS NOT EVEN MY MAIN POINT. MY MAIN POINT IS THAT NIGERIA WOULD HAVE BEEN WAY BETTER UNDER THE BRITISH THAN UNDER ALL THE MORONS THAT EVER RULED NIGERIA. BY THE MORONS, I MEAN ALL.

AND I WONDER WHY IT IS SO EASY FOR A not-so-smart person LIKE YOU TO CLAIM VICTORY WITH YOUR CLUELESS ARGUMENTS? YOU HAVE NOT PROVED HOW NIGERIA HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF NOW THAN IN THE DAYS OF THE BRITISH?
[/b]

It may disappoint you to know that your dishonest bullshit about all the leaders is laughable when you specifically turned this tribal with your drivel in your other post about "Stating the obvious have now made people that are natural born cowards and  British apologists to accuse others of being same." and "The British would have left Nigeria in a better state (despite their exploitation) than your fore-fathers that turned the country into a big and disrespectful slum. Nigeria actually went out of hand after your fathers succeeded in putting the East out of the political equation, and started dancing to their ethnic drums on it."

Accept that Nnamdi Azikiwe and other NCNC/East people sat back and let their political buddies declare a  state of emergency be imposed on the West instead of letting the real culprits for the disturbance in the West be fished out and held accountable. So much for "discovering that the composition of Nigeria was breeding strife." More like helping compound strife.

Your other garbage about only the East being difficult is of no relevance to this discussion about the British and the colonial development of Nigeria aside from being used for your shameless, despicable and tribalistic posts. By the way, are the Tivs in the East now? The Egbas? The British had a hard time with them, are they in the East?

Where did I ever argue about how Nigeria was under the British vs. now? All I did was admit that ROSSIKE was in the right for once, as he was in this thread. Facts are facts, Lugard and his cronies treated this country like a who-re, not a bride. Deal with it. I didn't claim that Nigeria couldn't have been much better than it is or glorify a slum like Lagos, but you clearly know nothing about colonial Nigeria. Go and find out what they used and didn't use Nigeria's resources for, before you come here spewing crap. Lugard's brother considered educated Nigerians "trousered niggers" and Lugard's infamous comments are only too well known and you're here wishing they were still governing you.

I'm not going to engage you further. I'm not interested in talking to someone who's highest aspiration in life is to be considered a trousered nigger.

lol, more whining. A very ungracious way to concede defeat. I guess these mumu leaders include Michael Okpara and Nnamdi Azikiwe. I could go into the failings of those leaders here but it would derail the thread too much. I think it's been sufficiently covered in other threads, anyway.

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=601921.msg7702233#msg7702233 date=1297310510]the benin people have distorted history and passed crap to people like you.they like to claim lagos as their vassal state and deny their vassal relationship with the

old oyo empire. . .na wa o [/quote]Lol, maybe some Yoruba people have distorted history now. Lagos being under Benin influence/control was reported by the Europeans, not Benin people, so how could you say we're the ones distorting history.

Oyo empire? Dahomey, not Benin, was a vassal state of Oyo at some point.

I think you meant Ife. Oyo attempted to invade Benin and lost and afterwards didn't dare try that nonsense again and let buffer states build up between themselves and Benin. And no Benin historian or Oba ever denied the religious importance of Ife to Benin, but when tribalists like yourself talk rubbish about "vassal state' that's when the disputes start.

[quote author=EzeUche_ link=topic=599690.msg7702220#msg7702220 date=1297310078]The Romans actually did that to their province in Britannia. We all know the original inhabitants of Britain were thoroughly Romanized. Rome's influence went as far North into Scotland, but they could not conquer the warrior Scots.

Now what have now in Great Britain are the descendants of Germanic tribes known as the Saxons. This is where you get Anglo-Saxons who conquered the island, when Rome was falling.[/quote]I know. What I mean is, sometimes I wish the Romans hadn't been so lenient on them, knowing what they went on to do later to so many groups.

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=601921.msg7702217#msg7702217 date=1297309996]Hrm, darn. I was going to annex Edo, Delta and Bayelsa, as well as the Benin Republic into my Yoruba Federation.[/quote]lol. . .but what purpose would that serve?

My idea has the benefit of letting Igbos, Hausas, and Yorubas and others stay in Lagos and thrive without dispute or conflict when Nigeria splits. Think about it. It seems ideal from my point of view.