₦airaland Forum

https://comps.fotosearch.com/bigcomps/IST/IST527/2326013.jpg

Terracotta head of a man, Benin, Nigeria, 17th century

https://comps.fotosearch.com/bigcomps/IST/IST527/2326018.jpg

A hip pendant worn in rituals of the Osun cult, Benin, Nigeria, 17th century

fstranger3:
What about the Oyi of Oyi. At his height, I thought he was more electable than Ekwueme. Well loved in the North too, unlike Ekwueme

Yeah, Okadigbo was nationally known, but it's probably a good thing he never got a higher position than he did, since he was corrupt. You're right, he had strong Northern connections.

fstranger3:
I am happy you acknowledged that, else I'd have bombarded this thread with video evidences

Lol, video evidence? Pictures, you mean.

Anyways, I have never denied the religious and artistic links between Yorubas and Benin (which went both ways, as the Owo and Ijebu bronzes show).

asha 2:
not sure that was needed nor did he ask about that.

secondly i doubt ngige was picked for national appeal rather than sectional appeal.


depends on what you mean by known 'national level' for someone like amechi.

I think Amaechi's efforts in Rivers are nationally known; at least in the south, anyways.

Kobojunkie:
NO! I would venture to say that the lack of exposure, beyond the local level/region, is a bigger reason why Ibo politicians still aren't as accepted, and popular, as their Northern/SW-tern counterparts at the National level. Ethnic hate plays a lesser role IMO.

1. Amaechi is Igbo, so I would disagree with some of what you wrote regarding popularity. Also, you have to keep in mind the politics of recent decades. After the death of the colossus of Zik, there was a kind of vacuum of nationally prominent Igbo politicians except for Ekwueme, so this lack of exposure is really just a dearth of other Igbo politicians who have been able to build huge alliances and gain admiration in other parts of the country.
2. I would have to agree with your statement of "NO!" with regard to Ngige and that was why I asked. It was completely rhetorical. I don't think Ribadu and his people thought this one through. Or maybe they couldn't get a better person from the southeast because their campaign is seen as somewhat weaker than the other two contenders.

I'm still astounded at this claim of the Edaiken and his brothers sitting back and letting the head of their father be hacked off instead of burying him in dignity. What palace chiefs were responsible for this supposed hacking off of the Oba of Benin's head and packaging it to be sent to Ife? Name them. Or do the people who propagate Egharevba's fairytale of every third  Oba's head being sent to Ife, not know that there were three specific groups of palace chiefs responsible for the upkeep of the Oba, his harem, and the palace itself? So who did the hacking? Who was the messenger (head carrier)? The Binis don't know, the Yorubas don't know, yet the Oni of Ife swears by Egharevba's fable.


http://books.google.com/books?id=QlW3ZMxrCKMC&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=1888+head+oba+benin+ife&source=bl&ots=B_8gZ4Eg2Z&sig=Xg9w8jOT1WTlPiQ4zmzVbnxbBEo&hl=en&ei=urhZTfSPHtSltwef57z2DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=1888%20head%20oba%20benin%20ife&f=false


^^^^^

The claim is just bizarre.




"Ramusio, c. I540, said that "all are anxious for the honor" to be buried with the Oba, as this was an "ancient custom" in Benin."

Source: John W. Blake, Europeans in West Africa, 1450-1560, London, 1942.

Who is Chris Ngige?

By that I mean, is he really known on the national level, like Fashola, Amaechi, etc?

ezeagu:
Oh, in what areas?

Terracotta heads.

The Okoro in Christopher Okoro Cole's name probably is because he had Igbo ancestry.

However, Okoro is not an exclusively Igbo name, just as Ojo is not an exclusively Yoruba name, though we often assume otherwise.

http://www.dawodu.net/okoro.htm

ezeagu:
Doesn't 'Oba' mean red in Edo. The Yoruba influence in Benin seems to be limited to religion.

Yeah, it not only means king, it also means a shiny kind of red. That's why I laugh at somebody telling me what words the Edo language can and cannot have when he doesn't have the slightest idea of sounds and words in the language.



The Yoruba influence was also artistic, apparently.

10cirenoh:
Is this all you can do? still better than someone who sqandered more than $18 billion within 8 months, spent $1billion celebrating failure on october 1st.

I take a Buhari 100 times before even dreaming of G not, to talk of E, that one na if i even remember J

Who's talking about GEJ?

I said Buhari was a mistake. That GEJ was an accident, doesn't take away Buhari being a mistake.

fstranger3:
[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psBEj6cUXyk?fs=1&hl=en_US[/flash]

?


*pours out a little liquor*


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBons6TRxic

"On January 12, 1904, the Herero people, led by Samuel Maharero, rebelled against German colonial rule. In August, German general Lothar von Trotha defeated the Herero in the Battle of Waterberg and drove them into the desert of Omaheke, where most of them died of thirst. In October, the Nama people also rebelled against the Germans only to suffer a similar fate.

In total, between 24,000 up to 100,000 Herero perished along with 10,000 Nama.[6][7][8][9][10] The genocide was characterized by widespread death by starvation and thirst by preventing the fled Herero from returning from the Namib Desert. Some sources also claim the German colonial army to have systematically poisoned desert wells.[11][12]

In 1985, the United Nations' Whitaker Report classified the aftermath as an attempt to exterminate the Herero and Nama peoples of South-West Africa, and therefore one of the earliest attempts of genocide in the 20th century. The German government recognized and apologized for the events in 2004.[13]"




Reparations should indeed be paid.

@ topic

This is just a theory so far.

The majority of Yoruba, Igbo, Nupe, Edo, and Idoma words are different.


There are very many cognates, but if they are ultimately from the same ancestor from 10,000 years ago it doesn't mean much.


The Slavic example given is different, because those groups had similar history and culture in recent times. The Yoruba, Igbo, Nupe, Edo, and Idoma, and other Kwa groups, with few exceptions, have similar culture only in the most superficial, general, West African sense. At the local level, two groups could have a lot in common, like Urhobo and Edo, or Idoma and Igala, so those specific cultural/linguistic groups can be grouped the way certain Slavic groups are grouped under the umbrella term of Slavic, but extending it beyond this to claim that Edo are little different from Ibibio or Igbo is little different from Nupe, is artificial and deceiving, I feel.

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=604492.msg7726893#msg7726893 date=1297667621]How ?
the theory of tradition between yoruba and ibo does not show that they have the same origin.The little homogenity may have been as a result of culture capture during the conquering period of early historical period.
The benin through the theory of strong tradition linking oranmiyan;a yoruba prince to the benin dynasty shows nothing but a pointer that benin may have been a vassal state to the oyo empire since they have to seek the oyo empire approval before a new oba is chosen in the benin kingdom and secondly,the remains of dead benin kings are also buried in oyo.
What this shows is that some kingdoms were more powerful than the others during this period and it may have been possible that the powerful ones were oppressive and force their culture on the weaker kingdom or even unconsciously too.[/quote]You keep peddling this falsehood about Oyo (you mean Ife, Oyo is Benin's junior brother, from all indications), and approval. Did the Pope's approval of the king of Italy, the king of France, etc. , mean that France and Italy were vassal states to the Vatican in ancient times?


And the nonsense about the remains of dead Benin kings being buried in Oyo (stop this Oyo crap, at least say Ife if you want to peddle this lie and don't pile lies upon lies) is absolutely and completely a made up story by Egharevba. The kings of Benin were never decapitated after death. They were put in large graves and three or four or more citizens happily sacrificed themselves and went into the grave with the Oba because they viewed him as a god. This is confirmed by European written accounts from hundreds of years ago.

This is just internet talk by that Danlami Mohnammed character.


Most Northerners have no interest in splitting the country.


It's not just oil. There's also desertification to consider.

asha 2:
^^^ nna you wan dent buhari image for west

lol

Buhari was a mistake, in my opinion.

[quote author=Chyz* link=topic=604959.msg7730661#msg7730661 date=1297709895]Its interesting that with all the "Kings", "Leaders", and "empires" the hausa,fulani,kanuri,yoruba, and edo had it took the british a snap of a finger to destroy them but to combined almost 35 years to get Igbo land under its arm,and still then, they never completely got control of the whole of Igbo land. . . . Who are the weak ones now.

We leave how he want and with what we want.Try and stop us.You are free to do so. [/quote]lol  @ this.


The Tiv, who also had no kings, empires, etc. took the British over 15 years to pacify. Compare the size of the Tiv, even back then, with the size of the Igbo, and then take a second look at your numbers.


Do you now assert that the Tiv were the most powerful, dogged, resistant, and martial people in the whole of Nigeria?  

It's pretty obvious that when one has overwhelming technological superiority and firepower, it will take one longer to take out scattered villages and hamlets than single, centralized powers. And when one does pacify all those separate settlements, it will take even longer to put down separate rebellions.

"PTF Projects: The Abacha regime created a parallel government through the Petroleum Trust Fund (PTF) headed by Major General Muhammed Buhari. Nothing else typifies the marginalisation of the Yoruba than the lopsidedness of the projects carried out by the PTF. Figures from PTF Situation Reports (Vol. 2 Dec. 98) show that the PTF carried on as if there was no South West.

Of all the roads rehabilitated by he PTF, only 1984.5 kilometres of roads representing 10.84 per cent were carried out in the South West; from where the bulk of the PTF revenue came since the zone consumes over 60 per cent of refined petroleum products. All the Southern States had 4,440.43 kms or 24 per cent of road rehabilitation as against 13,870.47 kms or 76 per cent in the Northern States zone three comprising the North-West States of Jigawa, Kaduna, Kano, Katsina, Kebbi, Sokoto and Zamfara had a lion share of 5020 kms or 27.42 per cent because the Fund’s Chairman, Buhari and the military dictator Sani Abacha were from there; zone four comprising the North-East States of Adamawa, Bauchi, Borno, Gombe, Taraba and Yobe picked 23.48 per cent. This is the zone where Salihijo Ahmed, the late Chief Executive of Afri-Project Consortium APC, the sole consultants that supervised all PTF projects came from."

http://www.nigerianmuse.com/20061228122222zg/nigeria-watch/all-about-the-oputa-panel-hrvic/nigeria-has-persecuted-the-yoruba-submission-of-afenifere-to-the-human-rights-violations/

ROSSIKE:
nobaga said:

That's nonsense. History is history. If you know anything about African history you will know that there have been great migrations throughout the continent since early times. It is right therefore, that people seek to know where they came from and when.

. . .

Underemployment is a possibility, I guess.


I don't know what the situation on the ground is and don't know too much about all the states, but the stats still seem kind of fake to me.

Crippled Giant: Nigeria since independence.


^^^


A decent book.

The word "Oba" has no  link with the Benin language? Are  they going to claim every shared wordcan only be found among Yorubas now? How can you claim what does and does not have a link to the Benin language when you don't have an idea of the sound and character of all of the Benin language?

If anyone thinks Yoruba was the official language in the Benin palace this debate is almost not worth having. A Benin palace that where Yoruba is the official language but where virtually every title, group, and object is given an Edo name?

If anyone thinks the heads of the Benin kings were buried in Ife because of another later alteration of his own story by Egharevba, I also have to wonder whether it's worth discussing this. The heads and bodies of the kings of Benin were buried whole, not with the sovereign's head decapitated, in Benin, and worship shrines were set up nearby. Also, upon the death of a king, subjects willingly died with him and viewed it as an honor to do so. I will post a specific quote with regard to this later. This nonsense about the dead Oba being decapitated and having his head sent elsewhere is a complete fable.

Also, does the Oni of Ife know that Egharevba said Oduduwa was not Yoruba?

Ife was a religious state and the Oni of Ife was not an overlord of Benin. The Pope in Europe played a part in crowning the sovereigns of Catholic states in Europe and legitimizing their reign. Does that mean that every Catholic European kingdom that ever existed was a vassal state of the Vatican?   

I'll be back with a quote which precedes Samuel Johnson's 1897/1921 History of the Yorubas and precedes P. Amaury Talbot's claims about the perceived connection between Benin and its neighbors that I'm pretty sure all these people were completely oblivious to.

In 1863, Benin had an extremely different opinion of the Benin+Yoruba connection that matches up with the version advocated by Oba Erediauwa. The

I have a lot of respect for Egharevba, but the truth is that he glossed over some things and made mistakes.

I guess the use of the word enrolled is ambiguous.

I read that 838,100 black males entered college in 2007.

There is another way to read it of course. I'm not sure.

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=603561.msg7730710#msg7730710 date=1297710535]

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, as of June 30, 2008, there were 846,000 black inmates (more than the 838,100 black males who enrolled in College in Fall 2007)


are you sure it's false?[/quote]Yeah. That lists the number of black men who entered college in 2007. Not the number currently in college.

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=599800.msg7724922#msg7724922 date=1297628727]How is that even possible? Kwara was classified as part of the North. Surely Jarus's town (Offa) had at least several college graduates by 1950.

What of teacher's college grads?[/quote]The article probably meant the real North, not the Yoruba north.

Balewa had a some 2-year British certificate, I believe. I'm not sure. But not a real bachelor's.


I don't think they had colleges of education at that time.

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=603561.msg7725980#msg7725980 date=1297641797]you'd be surprised

not saying it's true. but I won't be too surprised if it were.[/quote]It's false, but not by much.

http://www.zeleza.com/blogging/u-s-affairs/crisis-black-males-between-college-and-prison

https://english.people.com.cn/200703/07/images/ghana4.jpg

A man painted with Ghanaian colours dances during celebrations of the 50th anniversary of Ghana's independence in Accra. (Xinhua/Reuters Photo)