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[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=601921.msg7702212#msg7702212 date=1297309745]was lagos once an annex of benin ? I don't care about specifics, though. Just the IDEA . I need to write my name in the annals of history and recolonizing Lagos seems like a good way to go about it. ![]() |
Lagos should just be re-annexed by Benin. It'll stop all this saber-rattling between Igbos and Yorubas and also, we (Benin) need a seaport. ![]() I personally want to lead the charge. |
Xris74:If only Ijaw militants had adopted this philosophy. Johnny might not have had such a hard time politically. |
hmmm. . . |
I see. Good points, though I was under the impression that Britain had been ruling India since the 1700s. Overall, I see why they did what they did. Shame Nigerians had be 40-50 years behind educationally in addition to how far behind others they were in other aspects. These Brits were just so exploitative. They didn't learn from their own history. Sometimes I wish the Romans had made mincemeat of them and made the British Isles into Little Rome. |
![]() I guess this Maduka is just another unprincipled, power hungry goon in Nigeria. |
The British actually had India and Egypt as colonies for much longer than Nigeria and didn't set up colleges and schools immediately or in many locations, so I don't see the difference, unless you can provide evidence to the contrary. With regard to South Africa, I'm pretty puzzled by how they did more for colonial black South Africans than they did for Nigerians, for basically no reason. I had earlier thought that more black South Africans were more integrated into Western life and living since they had been coming to white cities since the 1800s and that that might have been the reason, but I don't really think so now. The Niger Delta, for example, had been interacting with the British for a long time (trade) and could have immediately benefited from British development when they were made protectorates, but the Brits didn't give a damn. I guess they viewed Nigeria the way Belgians viewed the Congo - exploit, pillage, and move on. Much of it can directly be blamed on Lugard and British governors like him, who had a kind of twisted respect for indigenous African rule and wanted to see indirect rule of the territories by the British using the African rulers who were forced into protectorates or previously overthrown by British to rule over the communities that the British conquered. Lugard ensured that Nigerians went on living somewhat similar to how they had been for a long time, except with their wealth being transferred to Britain and free labor being used by Britain.When you consider that Nigeria is inherently politically unstable and that the way they set it up directly contradicted and rubbished the history of the pre-colonial area, it just makes me loath what their colonialism did to this area even more. (edited) |
Yoruba Kwenu ![]() |
What's this obsession with control of Lagos? People should be wanting their area to be richer than all of Lagos, rather than trying to partition or keep parts of a Yoruba enclave that was only forced into union with other non-Yoruba places after the British navy took it over in the 1850s. People talking about businesses or infrastructure are naive or deliberately dishonest. The real worth of any land is the space/size of the land itself, its location (a coastal port, for example) and the concomitant advantages that location provides, any natural resources in the area, and possibly the historical/cultural significance of the area. Things like businesses and infrastructure are ephemeral and can be replaced or built up as needed, so they could never provide a pretext for sharing the land, location, and resources of an area with outsiders. Accept reality. |
This is the first time I'll ever agree with this ROSSIKE chap on this forum, despite his excessive Afrocentrist/Pan-African tendencies. Good job correcting some bizarre assumptions on this thread. One thing I will have to disagree with regarding the establishing of the University of Ibadan in 1948, about 30-35 years after Nigeria was fully "pacified" by the British, is that you have to take account whether there was a sufficiently large population of literate and "second-generation" Nigerians to warrant establishing a Nigerian university. And by this I mean not only students, but also lecturers, staff and professors that could result in the indigenous running of the university. So let the Brits slide on that one. There weren't that many Nigerians with Ph.D's or even master's prior to 1960. @ Justcash, don't derail this thread with pointless whining. What's stopping you from going this very moment and developing Port Harcourt the way you presume the British would have? Did Amaechi institute a Justcash ban in Port Harcourt? By the way, the Western region excluding Lagos was richer than the East and had the same level of infrastructural development, or possibly greater (Ibadan, for example), so I don't see what all this babble about the East is about. Concerning Port Harcourt read http://www.adakaboro.org/the12dayrev/chap3 to get some sense of what the non-British were turning it into. Apparently liquor houses, gambling centers, and brothels were all that the East could make of Port Harcourt after the British left. That said, Port Harcourt could actually be something today, so I'm glad it didn't remain in British hands. |
Specifics? |
matazzmagi:Who was Herbert Macaulay? Who was George Alfred Williams? Isn't it true that Zik allowed political freedom for some of these groups to be delayed in 1957? |
![]() Ok. Without google, could you tell me what the Iseyin-Okeiho rebellion was? I just think you and some other posters have a distorted view of colonial resistance in Africa. Let's just agree to disagree. ![]() |
ezeagu:The claim is unfounded. That was my very point. How can you still keep the claim? Are the Ashanti not West Africans? With regard to Nigeria, read "Disaffection and Revolts in Nigeria during the First World War, 1914-1918" by Akinjide Osuntokun or Nigeria: background to nationalism by James S. Coleman or Colonialism and Violence in Nigeria by Toyin Falola [quote author=EzeUche_ link=topic=599800.msg7694575#msg7694575 date=1297214513]We also have Anglo-Aro wars. Remember who were the last to fall in Nigeria. It was the Aro-Igbo. And it was the Igbo who provided the stiffest resistance to British rule in all of Nigeria. I guess you haven't heard of the Ekumeku rebellion 1883-1914 amongst the Anioma Igbo.[/quote]Did I deny the existence of the Anglo-Aro wars? And the Aro-Igbo were one of the last to be invaded. As for stiffest resistance, that's debatable. I don't want to derail this thread too much. But this idea of other groups not providing any significant resistance is mythical and that's what I wanted to point out. Binis had the Ologbosere of Benin and Oviaweri Esan had the king of Uromi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogbidi_Okojie) Yorubas had the Oba of Lagos resistance to British occupation in 1851 and the Egba kingdom (1914 & 1918) and the Abeokuta women's tax protest (1948) I don't see much difference between the Egba revolt and the Aba women's war, and I think history is being distorted by trying to say only this or that group resisted. Yorubas, Igbos, Edos, etc. resisted. The 1918 Egba uprising comprised more than 30,000 people. I already knew about the Ekumeku rebellion. It was first studied in detail by Phillip Igbafe, a Bini historian, something you probably didn't know. ![]() (edited) |
ezeagu:Where does this myth originate from? Are the Ashanti not in West Africa all of a sudden? Read about the Anglo-Ashanti wars. Also, what was the Egba revolt (1914)? What were the Warri tax riots (1927)? Please don't distort history. |
henry101:Tell us why? If my memory serves me correctly, the East seceded and later engaged in badly cloaked territorial expansion. |
Andre Uweh:Why would RichyBlack need to tell me that he's a moderator? It says very clearly in the politics section that he's the moderator of the foreign affairs section of this forum. Who are those on the other side of the argument? Katsumoto? dayokanu? Are you actually claiming I haven't questioned their opinions? I questioned dayokanu's glorification of Adekunle and his Ogbomosho rant the minute he brought it up. I'm not debating Katsumoto again on his views on the Jan. 1966 coup because I don't want to derail this thread but also because I believe that we agree that Ironsi severely misruled Nigeria and took steps that were only replicated by later military dictators, despite there being no need for such. My first username (PhysicsQED) was banned permanently, should I now allege a conspiracy against my ethnic group? |
cap28: The ignorance of the likes of Dayokanu and his support for the genocide perpetrated by the likes of Adekunle is quite nauseating to behold.Granted dayokanu has morphed into a complete goon in this thread, I feel the need to point out that this is a distortion of history. 1. The corruption/greed/rot was also extant during the time that AG was the opposition under Awolowo and when Awolowo refused to enter into a unity government with NCNC and NPC as Balewa wanted. So the corruption also started off with NCNC leaders (such as Zik and Okotie-Eboh) and with NCNC sitting back and letting NPC politicians engage in the degradation of the Nigerian state. 2. Akintola was absolutely, positively, and unequivocally NOT a Northern stooge. How many times must this be repeated before people get this? Read the book S.L. Akintola: His Life and Times to get an idea of who the man actually was and understand his completely legitimate (not Northern sponsored or inspired) feud with Awolowo. Refer to my earlier post for an extremely brief summary: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=599800.msg7687150#msg7687150 3. Fajuyi and Ademoyega were involved in the coup, and Banjo was a military radical suspected of being involved in the coup (but apparently wasn't) or planning something. How is that sitting on the sidelines? Anyhow, the Yorubas actually had more to lose than Igbos from the coup being successful, so it's surprising that there were any Yorubas that supported or were involved in the coup, especially given how Igbos dominated the mid-level officer ranks relative to Yorubas. When Ironsi started misgoverning Nigeria, it was Victor Banjo (a Yoruba man) who had the guts to try and eliminate him. 4. When the Jan. 1966 coup failed, it could more accurately be said that those who had UPGA political leanings (such as Fajuyi) became errand boys for the East. Those who were NNDP (such as Akinjide) or had northern leanings (such as Adekunle) stuck by the North. No betrayal there. Akinjide and people like him did not hide their disdain for Igbos so I don't see the cowardice there. 5. Following the July 1966 coup targeted at Easterners, Awolowo tried to foster a peaceful southern alliance but was rebuffed severely by (an irrational) Ojukwu. |
RichyBlack: Useless Nigeria!1. Even very late in 1966, it was not actually known that so many Northerners and Westerners had actually been killed in the Jan. 1966 coup. Balewa, Maimalari, and a few others were assumed to just be missing. So the ethnic pattern of the killings was not actually known when those celebrations broke out. If not for so many beloved and dignified Northerners and Westerners being killed whose deaths could not possibly be "justified" (as Akintola's, and apparently Okotie-Eboh's somehow could be) I doubt if the July 1966 coup or the pogroms could have occurred. People were celebrating the demise of Akintola in Lagos and other parts of the South, but if you actually think people in Maiduguri or Kano were celebrating the demise of the Sardauna, provide some actual evidence. 2. Igbos were murdered out of fear of a suspected "Igbo takeover" following Ironsi's misrule and because some Northerners had wanted to dispossess Igbos of their property even before any coup (see Nwankwo and Ifejika's book), not merely because of the Jan. 1966 coup. 3. There is a fundamental intellectual dishonesty in defending a brutal and horribly bungled coup as being justified and then complaining when those on the other side of that coup react in the same manner and with similar brutality. Either condemn the Jan. 1966 coup and also condemn the July 1966 counter coup but don't praise one and then condemn the other. You're waaaaaaay too emotional and biased to be any kind of moderator. I'm really surprised they gave you a mod position. Not that there aren't a few other emotional and/or biased mods (Jarus could be seen as having a slight pro-Northern bias, for example), but you're worlds away from people like mukina or Jarus in composure and rationality. |
Nothing is certain. This is false hope, probably. |
I don't know where this idea that Lagos was not bombed comes from. Probably propaganda. |
Akintola was not a Balewa or Bello stooge, Ezeuche. Stop trying to rewrite history. He was a shrewd politician in his own right and his main concern was seeing that Yorubas left their pariah/opposition status and integrated into the national scene. Balewa offered Awolowo the chance to form a unity government that included NPC, NCNC, and AG, and Awolowo repeatedly refused Balewa's overtures on principle. Akintola's frustration at Awolowo's unwillingness to compromise, and the resulting exclusion of Yorubas from important positions led him to form an alliance with the North on his own initiative. (His second concern was usurping Awolowo as the leader of the Yoruba.) Anyway, Akintola was in the wrong, but not a stooge in any real way. |
[quote author=EzeUche_ link=topic=599800.msg7687057#msg7687057 date=1297122001]There are over 100 Aro Communities in Nigeria. Until the British firmly established authority in what became Nigeria in 1901, various peoples of Nigeria moved freely and settled in different parts of the country. Some settlements were achieved by peaceful means, others were through a mixture of diplomacy, localized wars and negotiations. Whereas Aro Okporoenyi and Izombe typifies the first category, Aro Ndizuogu and Ndi-Eni (Ndikelionwu, Ndiowu, Ndiokparaeke, Ndiokpalaeze, Ajalli, etc.) are of the second order. Some Aro settlements (communities) within the second order (diplomacy and negotiations) signed away their rights (of conquest) recognized at that time by international law as the strongest right of any nation. Aro Ikwere, Aro Cameroon and Aro Ajalli, among others, have either lost their settlements or are in heated micro-battles with dominant cultures for their independence and sovereignty. http://www.arookigbo.com/files/aro_people/aro_people.php[/quote]Ok, but where in Cameroon were they? Near the border? What you posted actually seems to imply that Aro Cameroon is an Aro community in Nigeria. |
ezeagu:Yeah, but what's the evidence for this? When I hear this claim it reminds me of some Benin people claiming we were in Ghana Where's the proof? |
Yeah during the war he became Yorubanized. But I meant that Adekunle might have been pushed towards the role he chose as a Northerner. As a Bachama (Northerner), Adekunle was possibly just carrying out his (sectional) "obligations" to crush the Biafrans, rather than caring about Akintola. |
Wasn't being daft, that was outright mockery. Bringing current small scale computer manufacturing here and there in Nigeria as an example of what we couldn't have done under the British is just dumb when the very first computers were only being set up in the 40s and 50s. Anyways, this isn't worth my time. Keep deluding yourself. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=592828.msg7604401#msg7604401 ^^^^^ That's a pretty good summary of the real state of things. |
Adekunle actually identified with his northern roots (Bachama) prior to the war apparently, not his Yoruba side. So all this Ogbomosho this and that some people are talking here is probably misplaced. |
There can't be full scale war between the East and the West because the Midwest is in the way and we don't give two flying fu-cks about this stupid desire to thrash other Africans while the rest of the world progresses. @ Ezeuche, why do you keep claiming Aros were in Cameroon, where is the actual evidence for this? |
dayokanu:"As his war letters clearly demonstrate, he was too temperamental and schizophrenic to provide good leadership in peace time. It is also apparent from his son’s book that he believed the war was about oil, not Nigeria ’s unity. “Plainly speaking” he said in the biographical section of the Book, “the Federal troops fought the civil war because of the rich crude oil found in the coastal areas. Those who fought are never told the truth.” Twenty-six years after the war, Adekunle seemed to have changed his story. In an interview with the Weekend Concord (July 6, 1996) which the son quoted in the book, the Black Scorpion regretted that he fought, not for oil, but to keep Nigeria one. “While some of us were dying in the battlefield for the restoration of Nigeria as one country,” he said, “some people have their eyes on one particular subject – oil, the live wire of the economy, the new fulcrum or pendulum of power. While we fought for one country, some people have been reaping where they did not sow. They have been reaping from bogus population figures fashioned to suit their selfish purposes…” |
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Just the IDEA 
They didn't learn from their own history. Sometimes I wish the Romans had made mincemeat of them and made the British Isles into Little Rome.