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SEFAGO: Another do as I say not as I do person lol. Dem plenty for africaWell, I don't think that Diop was anything like what he is often made out to be today by those who want to take his work and push it to its most extreme limits and place him alongside people like Ivan Van Sertima or Chancellor Williams. I think he was quite different actually. He was basically a scholar with very wide ranging interests and he had hit upon a major distortion of history happening right before his eyes and he used his intellect to tackle it as best he could with the information available to him at the time. Later scholars, both black and white pursued the issue of the "race" and culture of the ancient Egyptians objectively and scientifically, and while not yet providing an unassailable proof of his basic thesis, gained enough ground and rubbished enough of the extant Eurocentric myths that Diop had attacked in his own time to make his work very justified in hindsight for those who were skeptical and to make his errors or mistakes less significant. |
cap28: A tthorough grounding in african history and I don't mean african history taught from a eurocentric perspective. I would also insist on international politics and economics taught at 0secondry schl level I wld also want to see compulsory para military training introducedOk. It would be interesting to see how that would play out if implemented on a nationwide level for a small to medium size country. Maybe like the Kwame Nkrumah Ideological Institute except geared toward black history rather than Marxism and operating nationwide instead of just one place. With the exception of the paramilitary part - which could be a recipe for training future coupists or terrorists - there isn't anything here I could object to. Just for the record, I don't think Diop was really much of a "radical". He went to France to study physics under a famous white French physicist, married a white French woman, etc. He was mainly out to correct some erroneous definitions, distortions, and Eurocentric perceptions about Egypt, but the man himself does not seem to have personally been much of a political/social "radical". |
shymmex: You're entitled to your own opinion - but getting into Oxbridge has a lot to do with race, and class to an extent. From the comment you posted, you saw the guy with a Yoruba name saying he didn't even get an interview despite meeting the requirement. My assumption is that his name ratted him out.Well if you're speaking from experience with people who have had that problem, I obviously can't say you're wrong since I am ignorant of any real world experience over there. But if you read further in the comments, you'll see other comments from other posters giving more support to the idea that the cutoff is pretty hard to beat for Oxbridge. Another poster also claimed that only 50% of law applicants are shortlisted for an interview, so there is probably some other requirement to be met to even qualify for an interview, let alone admission. |
shymmex: The bolded part is politricks, a decent number of black kids do apply from time to time - but most times, they're asked to go for less competitive courses.So, most kids would rather apply to a second-tier university and study their preferred course - rather than get into Oxbridge to study anything. Having an African name is also disadvantageous our here, hence why some people change their names. You'll be surprised that your application can be denied out here, just by having an African name alone.Hmmm, I was scrolling through the comments section in one of the links you gave me and I saw this series of exchanges, including a comment from a poster with the name "Ab1odun" (obviously Abiodun): Ab1odun: 6 December 2010 10:47PM niccochan: 6 December 2010 11:17PM Salmonslice: 6 December 2010 11:18PMhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/06/oxford-colleges-no-black-students Also, look at this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/503406/nigerian-student-achieves-best-2010 She said she planned to go to Cambridge. Probably got in. I don't think it's a politics thing or race thing at all, but going by what was written in the article about the most popular subjects, your analysis about choosing less famous/prestigious universities, but sticking with the desired subjects may be correct. |
Cap28 What sort of education would you design to liberate Nigerians (or if you want to be more general, Africans) from mental laziness, spinelessness and inferiority complexes? What would that involve specifically? And how would you implement it so as to complement modern 21st century education and career paths? |
morpheus24: As regards the Yoruba language. There are no solid specifics that tie it to the gbe subfamily of languages under the category of Kwa speakers(Tonal, lexicon and sentence structures are debated) in and around the western areas bordering the Atlantic other than the proposition that it is highly likely that migratory patterns westwards would relate languages families across that same migratory line, with later arrivals sharing more similarities with proto-bantu speakers. see attachement below for language categories. the more brownish it gets the closer it is to a BANTU languge. You can also reference the journal of west African languages for each specific language groupWell I did not say there are specific words that tie them to current Bantu speakers. I just said that there are "Bantu-like" words. That could be a result of the proto Bantu and proto Niger Congo languages sharing the same origin. For example, names that begin with "n" like Nnamdi or Ndubuisi or Ndik or Ngozi or Njoku that are followed by another consonant instead of a vowel. Some Bantu speaking groups also seem to have place names or personal names that have that same n + consonant feature. Also words that begin with m that are followed by a consonant instead of a vowel or a "y", such as Mbadiwe or Mbong. |
shymmex: That's just one in hundreds, and her case was peculiar because her family has been all over the news for almost a decade now. The Imafidons are very popular out here.Interesting. When you first brought it up I thought that perhaps it was due to extra-academic requirements or connections necessary to get into Oxford and Cambridge, but reading through some of those links, I see that not many blacks there apply, and not many have the grades for it. I guess your assessment of the differences between Nigerians in the UK and the U.S. is probably correct. |
Kilode?!:My parents would fit into the "fairly educated migrants" group along with ekt bear's, but I still disagree significantly with him. I think being college educated to at least the bachelor's degree level is meeting the minimum level required to constitute part of an educated middle class, not an intellectual elite or upper class. That America selects for the middle class immigrants to America from certain countries while excluding some of those who aren't doesn't mean that all or most of those who are selected are really the top 1 to 5 percent in terms of inherent intellectual ability or capability from the country. They're just a portion of the educated middle class trying it abroad. |
shymmex: Oxbridge (Oxford and Cambridge Universities) hardly accept black students.Do you have any numbers, by chance? The youngest ever master's holder (Anne-Marie Imafidon) from Oxford is of Nigerian heritage. Also Fidelis Oditah went to Oxford. I'm sure if I dug around some more I could find others. Institutionalised racism stares you in the face out here everydayBut they made one Victor Adebowale a Baron? |
shymmex: I'll say that's like comparing apple to oranges. United States is more liberal, probably because of the civil rights, but the United Kingdom is a different ball game entirely. Institutionalised racism stares you in the face out here everyday - but most people can't really complain because of the welfare system. That's why I laugh when I see Nigerians in UK on NL spew delusional statements like :"most Nigerians in the UK are professionals."So if they're just there to suck on Britannia's t1ts, why do they have such an attitude? ![]() Look at Sagamite! The guy is always on his high horse on here. Is that some sort of coping mechanism perhaps?There was one thread where he was ranking universities from the UK and America into tiers and classifying graduates into this and that and getting into arguments about UK Nigerian grads vs. U.S. Nigerian grads and all this stuff. . .And Nigerians don't even get into Cambridge? |
ekt_bear: How did they get visa to the UK?Nigerians are not the most educated group in the UK, but if GCSE test scores are anything to go by they're not that much different from Nigerians in America: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Nigerian#Education |
Apparently few people are bothering to read past the first post in the thread. Nobody was rejected on tribal/ethnic grounds and the information in the opening post is extremely inaccurate. |
Ekt bear, I've got somewhere to be. I'll be back in an hour or so. I've seen your last comment and I still disagree although I understand the point you're making. ![]() |
Ekt bear, I am not under the impression that bawomolo's father was a "bum" in Nigeria by any means because he worked as a taxi driver to feed his family. I know of Nigerians and Cameroonians with pharmacy and engineering degrees that were previously working at supermarkets and grocery stores as attendants before finding their fit. He could have had trouble getting a higher paying job that he was qualified for because of his foreign origin/background or something as that has definitely happened to a family friend of ours before. But I do know Nigerian parents in real life who are teachers (public school teachers don't make much in the U.S.) or who work in retail and their children are also intelligent and achievers so maybe I'm relying too much on anecdotal evidence here. But a real flaw I see in the main thrust of your argument is defining those Nigerians who meet the minimum standard for being middle or upper middle class anywhere else in the world as automatically being upper class in Nigeria. Those Nigerians who meet the minimum standard for being middle class in terms of education anywhere else in the world are forming/trying to form the middle class in Nigeria, but when/if Nigeria is deteriorating, they sometimes decide to go and be middle class somewhere else. Upper class financially in Nigeria does really mean the moneybags who hold executive positions somewhere or who have "XYZ Group of Companies" associated with them and who own oil blocks or have other large business holdings and who live in large gated compounds with massive houses. I don't think most Nigerians in America are from these groups, though some definitely are. The financial upper class is necessarily a small percentage of the population anywhere but I think the same applies to the educational upper class and that's probably why I disagree with you. Now the educational upper class may be a little harder to define but I would definitely disagree with the idea that every holder of a bachelor's degree in some profession (engineering, law, pharmacy, nursing, etc.) from a decent to superior university in Nigeria is truly upper class educationally in the sense that we would think of it in the western world. These are people who are trying to form the middle class, whereas you seem to believe that when somebody becomes educated in a developing country, they become an upper class person. I also disagree strongly with the idea that those who have been educated so far have been able to "do what many others were unable to do" and truly automatically constitute the top 1 or 5 percent of the nation in terms of intellectual ability. That was kind of what my whole story about those two families was about. Doesn't every family (or at least the majority of families) need to reach a comfortable enough financial level to where they can focus on educating their sons and daughters at the best pre-university schools (and not just surviving) before you can decide who is really the cream of the crop? I have no reason to believe that the engineer son and doctor son of that poorer family will in any way achieve less over the course of their careers academically or professionally than the doctor son of that rich family. Also, there was a significantly smaller population in the 70s and fewer universities, meaning that Ibadan, Ife, Benin, Lagos, Nsukka, Abu Zaria, Illorin, Calabar, etc. were the only real universities around, so those people are not elites because they graduated from there even though they might think they are (I mean this in the most non-offensive way possible, for anyone reading who might have graduated in the 70s or 80s from one of these universities. I'm not trying to downplay anyone's effort or hard work but I am questioning the idea of the inherent intellectual superiority over others of those who graduated from these universities at that time). When these are the only universities in the country of course they will be the best ones. There were never any Harvards in Nigeria. No Yales, no Stanfords, etc. It's not as if Nigeria even had an IIT or Sharif University or Tsinghua or any where that there was beastly, ridiculous competition to get into when these Nigerians were getting their degrees there in the 70s or 80s or anything. There was competition no doubt, but nothing that could place someone into the intellectual elite of their country just by graduating from these places. |
morpheus24: Don't know where you source that from above but let me clarify. Bantu is derived from common word/meanings used by many ethnic groups across east,central and southern Africa to represent the word "peoples". example would be Basotho, Batswana, Bacongo, Ba wemba, ubuntu,What about the Yoruba language makes it Gbe-like? And what groups in southeastern Nigeria besides the Ibibio/Annang/Efik, Ekoi, and Igbo or Igboid groups have any Bantu-like words in their languages? |
Kayday: We can all see that this country is really sick. So, the Olotu is even an Itshekiri man. It's likely to be the same wahala if he was Etsako or Ishan. Rubbish!What are you talking about? The strike was caused by supporters of Charles Ikeji (an Igbo man) within the hospital and among the Bini community of Uselu who were misled into thinking the new appointee was not selected fairly and properly and wanted Ikeji retained permanently as the director of the hospital. This is not about Esan or Etsako or Bini, but about misinformation on the ground and misinformation in the media. Allafrica sucks balls as media outfit. |
By SIMON EBEGBULEMhttp://www.vanguardngr.com/2012/04/protest-grounds-federal-psychiatric-hospital-uselu/ There is tension and confusion at Federal Psychiatric Hospital, Uselu, Edo state, southsouth Nigeria, following protest by members of staff of the hospital and mass protest by Uselu community chiefs and youths over the appointment of Dr. Sunday Olotu as Medical Director of the hospital.http://liveofofo.com/health/federal-psychiatric-hospital-uselu-workers-on-strike-threaten-to-release-lunatics/ 2 things are apparent from these articles 1. When the medical staff that started the strike (led by K.O. Oriakhi, an Edo (Bini) man) were convinced that due process had not been followed in Dr. Osasu Olotu's appointment, they protested and some of the leaders and youths of the (Bini) community of Uselu protested alongside them for the retention of Dr. Charles Ikeji (a non-Edo) as chief medical director because they all appreciated what they feel he had done for the hospital and community. When they got wind of the correct information (what I posted earlier from thisday), they rightly made a u-turn. 2. Allafrica's journalists are apparently lazy and incompetent. @ afam4eva, in light of recent information, your post at the beginning of this thread is starting to look like your "omoluabi" error from a while back. We should find out as much information as possible before reaching conclusions and when we err, we should admit it. |
afam4eva: I won't blame the Benin people really,And you couldn't. There's nothing to blame them for in this instance nor is there anything to blame them for in the other two instances you tried to misconstrue as tribalism. afam4eva: afterall we're in a country where tribalism is encouraged instead of meritocracy even by the government.As I have already said in other threads, if merit were strictly adhered to, these kinds of issues would not even arise. Several Bini people have already risen to very high positions in various non-political organizations in Nigeria based on academic/professional competence and it is absurd to insinuate that it is the Edo of all groups that need tribe or ethnicity as a crutch. This is not the group anyone should be trying to turn into a scapegoat or use as a poster boy for the sacrifice of meritocracy for ethnicity. Direct that kind of whinging toward more northern, desert-dwelling groups if anybody, but not to this particular southern group as there is absolutely nothing to bear out this ridiculous perception. |
I completely take back what I said earlier about Oriakhi and his allies. I should have checked to see that the story posted by the OP was actually accurate. My apologies to anyone I may have offended. I was certain that Dr. Olotu was an Itsekiri since Olotu is a also an Itsekiri name and the opening post made it seem that he was not Bini. Sunday Osasu Olotu is a Bini man. Nothing posted by anyone so far in this thread has been accurate. Dr. Ikeji was never in the running to become medical director of the hospital as someone insinuated he was above. This is the actual story: By Olaolu Olusinahttp://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/furore-over-medical-director-s-appointment/112738/ |
afam4eva: Benin Indigenes Rejects New Igbo Vc In Uniben. - Politics - NairalandYour interpretation of the news in the first thread is strange and inaccurate. The Minister of Education, Sam Egwu, appointed a Uniben professor and former VC of another university as the acting VC of the university at will, even when that is not how acting VCs are selected. A certain special interest group objected and accused the minster of education of ethnic nepotism. Their objection was not about the Igbo in particular, but about the illegality of the appointment and the possible ethnic motivation. On the second link, that is between the Bini Catholics and the non-Bini Catholics and is not a Bini issue in general. The Bini Catholics, being Catholics, are eager to have more of their people become Catholics. They know that if an Igbo or Esan or other archbishop was/is appointed, virtually no progress whatsoever would be made in making more Binis in the rural areas into Catholics, as was the case before. You can read the real reasons for their complaints here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaijaElections/message/30853 http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/IgboWorldForum/message/76800 http://ihuanedo.ning.com/profiles/blogs/why-the-benins-want-a-benin Not that I care anyway as a non-Catholic. And I really do not believe that most of the Christian Edo are Catholic, but that's just from my personal experience. The lesson here as far as the Catholic thing is concerned seems to be that the only people who care about making more Binis into Catholics are the actual Bini Catholics. The rest couldn't care less and the non-Binis appointed to oversee Catholics in that diocese just go there to enjoy their position. |
buzor: benin ppl and their useless tribalistic agendas. thats how they managed to put d useless oshodi as d vc of uniben, now d guy is implementin bini policy in every dept in uniben.Virtually every other minority group from the old Midwest had had a person as VC on an ethnic/tribal rotation basis before Oshodin was VC. The VC position there was never based on merit. If it were, they could certainly have got someone (of any ethnic group) better than Abhulimen Richard Anao to be VC at the time that he was. And if the position were based on credentials and merit, Anthony Osagie would have been appointed VC instead of Emmanuel Nwanze. Whatever the criteria used, the only thing that is extraordinary is that any Binis had to protest to get the position in the first place. If merit had been adhered to, the issue wouldn't even have come up. |
afam4eva: The level of tribalism that is exhibited by Benin people is chronic. I remember when they were against one Igbo VC of Uniben some years back. They were also agaisnt the domination of Igbos in the catholic church in benin and now this. What exactly will they achieve if they release the lunatics from the psychiatric hospital. We have to do away with this primitive way of thinking.Can you provide evidence in support of the part in bold? |
BlackPikiN: Benin — Medical staff of the Federal Psychiatric Hospital, Uselu, Edo State have embarked on an indefinite strike over the appointment of Dr. Sunday Olotu as Medical Director of the hospital.These people are morons. The psychiatric hospital wasn't even set up by an indigene of Benin anyway. If it wasn't for outsiders, they probably wouldn't have jobs there in the first place. This Oriakhi and his allies are neanderthals. |
@ ekt bear, I googled around a bit and while it seems true that India is reversing its brain drain to some extent, China is not. But with China's population, they'll always have loads of smart professionals in their country regardless. Not the ideal amount probably, but probably a large enough group to drive their country forward. |
ekt bear, I think you have to define "upper class". I think most Nigerians I meet in America would be upper middle class or middle class in Nigeria, but not necessarily very rich (financial elite) or from the most educated families in their respective towns or cities in Nigeria (intellectual elite). Wasn't there one poster on here (bawomolo) who was going for his master's in mechanical engineering at a highly regarded private university before he was killed, and his father was a taxi driver? Not saying he would be representative of most Nigerians in America or anything, but I guess my point is among certain groups of Africans (Ghanaians, Nigerians, Cameroonians, possibly Kenyans), but not necessarily all others, the economic/educational background of the family is probably not really the deciding factor. I don't think the "intellectual elite" of Nigeria have really been transplanted to America and the UK or anything. Last time I was in Nigeria I visited several relatives and family friends, and two families are particularly relevant to this issue. For one family, the father was a doctor who had practiced for a long time abroad and the oldest son had also gone into medicine, and the son had attended one the best universities in the country, just as the father had in his time, and as I conversed with the son over the course of the visit it became apparent that the guy was highly intelligent (which is what one would expect in a good doctor, of course, so there's nothing extraordinary about that in and of itself). The family was pretty rich, had several cars, a huge house (a mansion, really) in a gated compound in the GRA area and these are the ones I would consider the financial elite and among the most educated in their community. However, a few days later we visited another family that our family knows. Their house is a small regular sized one story house, more like a large apartment in the U.S. really in terms of interior space, and not even up to a fourth of the size of our own family's house. The father in the family may not have been college educated or he may have studied some "useless" subject in college (I wasn't rude enough to ask my parents if the reason they lived in a house even smaller than some of the ordinary houses I'd seen was because of this), but what did come through in the course of conversation is that the oldest son is a doctor and that the second son is an engineer who was trying to go to abroad to further his education. This family wasn't the intellectual or financial elite of their immediate community, city or state but there was no significant difference in terms of educational attainment/achievement between the educated sons of this family and the educated son of the richer family I mentioned above, as far as I could tell. I think you have the impression that most Nigerians in America are from a situation like that of the first family mentioned above where the patriarch of the family is some highly educated chap who got a medical degree or doctorate in the 70s or 80s, but I don't think that's really the case for the majority. Many could have very financially or educationally regular (rather than extraordinary) parents but high achieving children. I wouldn't be surprised if most Nigerians in America were either like the second family I mentioned or somewhere in between the first and second family. |
Old news, but I'm not surprised to see that some ignoramuses think that these Africans are "upper class" Africans. Not that that even makes any sense as a counter argument to try to hand wave away this trend, because what might be "upper class" in one place may be middle class in another. I don't know any Africans here whose parents are diplomats, millionaires, big business moguls, or any other form of modern "landed gentry" but they still compete at the highest levels academically. Of course, holding the statistic of being the most educated in the U.S. does nothing for Nigeria as a country. |
"Ogunkoye", "Ekwekwe" or "Babangida" can only be a NigerianNo Ogunkoyes in Togo or Benin Republic? No Ekwekwe's in Cameroon or Gabon? No Babangidas in Niger? The Nigerians have a THING about clothes and jewelleryJewelry? What? The Nigerians. . .They are like cockroaches and will be found in the most unusual places.Smh @ the hate. ![]() That's how it starts. |
Found their website. http://stemceta.com/ http://stemceta.com/about-us/ http://stemceta.com/about-us/mission-statement/ http://stemceta.com/our-products/ http://stemceta.com/our-products/list-of-diseases-treated-by-stemceta/ Well, hopefully whatever disagreement exists between the government and this company can be worked out so that they both benefit. |
America is "broke as a joke"? ![]() |
Sam_Ikenna: Nwanne, I kind of want to know why you go by "PhysicsQED," Are you our next Shrodinger? I would be happy if you're one.lol QED = quantum electrodynamics and of course quod erat demonstrandum I'm the next me. Claiming to be the next Schrodinger would be incredibly conceited. |
Dede1: What the hell is UBTH?http://www.thenationonlineng.net/2011/index.php/news/32419-ubth-unveils-patient-of-first-stem-cell-transplant.html https://www.nairaland.com/773733/nigeria-records-first-stem-cell http://www.peoplesdaily-online.com/news/national-news/27895-anaemic-patient-survives-surgery- |
Dede1: The first person that comes to my mind and the first Nigerian to be given such treatment was Dr Njoku Obi of cholera vaccine. I would want a numskull such as you to list names but avoid obscure instances.Cholera vaccines have been around for a while. If he had anything that was really groundbreaking, I don't see why he couldn't publish his results elsewhere and seek alternative funding. |
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