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People are trying to tribalize this when the man went out of his way to make it seem non-tribal by mentioning Alhassan Bako Zaku by name as one of those who supported his project. Anyway, I have a few questions about the STEMCETA project. What have they achieved in the 11 years that they were around? What are their long term goals? What specific technologies are they/were they developing or introducing to (black) Africa? What progress have they made on training people in using stem cell technologies or in applying specific treatments? He should let the public know exactly what they're going to miss if they let the government edge out his project in favor of whatever they're creating. It should also be noted that in developed countries, there are private biotechnology companies that conduct research independently of government-funded research institutes or universities, so there is not necessarily a conflict when the government decides to pursue its own research agenda/direction with alternative researchers. The man can still do whatever it is his group was doing regardless. |
Paul Kagame may be trying to boost his credibility with this move. |
Too many people posting on this thread so far are disconnected from reality. I predict at least 5 pages. Maybe 6. |
jara, " Destroying everyone in sight "? I only have a few specific criticisms. That doesn't amount to destroying anyone. And I don't even know or care what you think you mean by "even your own people". And I know that you're not a reasonable person, hence my first comment to you on this thread. Your whole perspective is warped. I don't really care to change your perspective. I just wouldn't let you spout your views unchallenged here. "Ogiso is a sword bearer", "Adumu (a water spirit) is Oduduwa" etc. Garbage. |
jara, - First, everyone knows that Egharevba, however noble and important his effort, was not a professionally trained historian because of the circumstances of his times and environment. Were he one, he would not have distorted the interpretation of his own work by cowing to foreign influence and introduced a new name for that ruler's title for no reason without giving an explanation, and it is unlikely that he would he have excluded his own 1975 statement from being expressed explicitly in his work. A professionally trained historian would indeed leave less room for ambiguity or misinterpretation. On reading Jacob Egharevba, the fact is that any interpretation of his work in the manner that you and some others have tried to interpret it, contradicts the statements of his own Edo people hundreds of years ago in pre-colonial times. And since you say that you've read some of Egharevba's work and are even telling others to read his work, what have you actually read? Which publications? - On Professor Ekeh, I have nothing against him personally. He's obviously generally a very bright guy. But his work is occasionally shoddy and in distorting that piece of folklore about "Ehi-will-enrich-me" and in that article in general he failed as a scholar for multiple reasons. It is absurd to claim that this piece of work was assiduous when in fact it was shoddy. First he heavily distorted the meaning of story recorded by Bradbury, and he added Isidore Okpewho's summary/paraphrase of the part of the story preceding Ehighafemwen's (Ehi-will-enrich-me's) triumph in order to completely mangle the import of the story. The story is not from Okpewho, but from Bradbury's account of it. Okpewho quotes Bradbury and adds his own paraphrase of part of what Bradbury wrote, and then Ekeh quotes Okpewho even though Ekeh has access to Bradbury's work as shown in the books he cited at the end of his lecture/article in order to distort the story. It is an act of irredeemable fraud or incompetence, to quote a story in which it is stated at the very beginning that the Ogiso is the Oba and to then try to interpret the story of the ascendance of an unreal and proverbial person, Ehighafemwen or "Ehi-will-enrich-me", the son of Erhamwoisa, to the position of Oba as meaning what Ekeh and now you are attempting to make it mean. ( And we already know that he is a proverbial character in Edo folklore because he is also mentioned in another story, published in issue 33 of the West African Review in 1962, that begins "In the days of the great Oba Ehengbuda there were two friends, Ehighafemwe and Obaghafemwe who because of their names argued loud and long. . . " ) The full extent of the fraudulence or intellectual incompetence involved in trying to read the quote the way Ekeh did is heightened when you realize that Ekeh has already read books on Benin, and that he would already know who the Oba's swordbearers are and that they are youths and not grown men, even if he were too lazy to go and ask about the swordbearers from somebody actually connected with the Benin palace. Second, he selectively picked what to include and exclude from Egharevba without even acknowledging the existence of what he was leaving out, leading him to contradict Egharevba in many of his claims about the perception of and achievements of the Ogisos among the Edo. I attacked Ekeh's statement because he completely and totally distorted the story that Bradbury recorded in order to push his nonsensical angle/interpretation. The fact that he was invited to give a lecture in honor of Egharevba does not necessarily mean that those who listened to his lecture would have automatically agreed with all his claims. Finally, it is a further act of incompetence to claim as Ekeh did that a man, Isidore Okpewho, with an Urhobo father and an Anioma mother who does not speak Edo and who published a book specifically meant as an attack on Benin is somebody who wrote a "comprehensive and scholarly study of Benin folklore". The absurdity of this statement is heightened not just when one actually reads the book by Okpewho that Ekeh claimed was a "comprehensive and scholarly study of Benin folklore", but when one realizes that Ekeh himself wrote a review article ("Contesting the History of Benin Kingdom" ) of that book disputing the validity of many of the analyses, claims, and perceptions that Okpewho expressed in his book! - On Iwo Eleru, the people there were not even modern homo sapiens at a time when modern homo sapiens already existed. They were a less evolved form of humanity living in a rock shelter. To claim that there was civilization there is ridiculous. Saying that "tools and artifacts beyond their contemporaries at the world stage" were found at Iwo Eleru is just as ridiculous. And the Benin/Edo region was occupied well before the birth of Christ, but you are perhaps too stuck in your perceptions to bother to find that out. Also, proving that a place may be older, does not necessarily force any conclusion about the question of dynastic change or origin. The Nok culture, from the Ham people, has evidence of being at a high level of cultural achievement earlier than any other culture in Nigeria, but is not necessarily the source for all others. - On Ijaw, I noticed you supplied absolutely no evidence to support your assertion, once again, about their supposed oldness compared to other groups. As for "Adumu" and "Oduduwa", how about actually reading the accounts of actual Ijaw historians like Ebiegberi J. Alagoa on Ijaw traditions of origin? The Ijaws in general do not claim descent from Oduduwa but if you expect me to accept this "Adumu" story then I could as well claim that the Ooni of today is of Ijaw descent, since that is what the Ijaws who promote this story online are actually claiming (among other things). As far as I can tell, Adumu is actually a water spirit represented by or associated with the python, and not some prince or king. |
jara You have such a heavily distorted view of Benin that it's almost not worth bothering to communicate with you, but I'll make an attempt anyway. Have you ever actually read Egharevba's work? Answer honestly. In every edition of his book, he tried to imply that there was already a Bini ruler of or a Bini takeover of Ife in some way or another but he was overly subtle about it. In his earlier editions, he maintained the tradition of his people dating back to hundreds of years (as confirmed by written documents from hundreds of years ago, which there is nothing to suggest that he was even aware of) that there was a ruler with an explicitly/unambiguously Edo title presiding over Ife. Even in his last two revised editions, where he altered the title of the ruler after cowing to outside influence, he stated that the Binis migrated into Ife and then left afterward. The implication of this statement for a sovereign kingdom are pretty clear. In fact, in the 1920s, Oba Eweka II prayed for the health a king with an Edo title who is also the same one held by his people for hundreds of years to be same one presiding at Ife, but he was oblivious to the existence of any king called "Ooni" that he should pray for, and he never did pray for any Ooni. Interestingly enough, this particular Edo title (Oghene) could not have been pronounced by the Yorubas of Ife, since it is a proven linguistic fact that they remove the "gh" sound from their words, so they would have eventually replaced it with something else when the title was in Ife. All of this stuff being presented as an authoritative interpretation of Egharevba's work is basically new history and doesn't square up well with written documents from the pre-colonial past or actual Edo tradition which is unambiguous about the existence of the ruler whose title was Edo. Next, the Oba of Benin did not come up with a new theory about Ekaladerhan. It simply does not originate with Oba Erediauwa. That's one of the larger misconceptions and that was what bokohalal tried to explain above. Also, why no mention of the possibility of dynastic change in Ife? Dynastic change in Ife is probably why Egharevba stated on May 3rd, 1975, that Oduduwa was an outsider and non-Yoruba who found Yoruba people already living at Ife when he arrived. Whatever happened to Oreluere? You're mentioning "Iwo Eleru civilization" at 10,000 B.C. as if there was actually civilization there. What was found there was a homo sapiens skull with archaic and unusually primitive features: http://www.nhm.ac.uk/about-us/news/2011/september/mystery-of-a-west-african-skull-from-13000-years-ago103799.html "Two of the characteristics of the skeleton are quite unknown among modern West African populations, and the radiocarbon date for charcoal immediately surrounding the skeleton is the earliest of the block of six obtained at the site. The skeleton has been under examination in the Duckworth Laboratory of the University of Cambridge for the last two years, but the investigation is not yet complete owing to the illness and subsequent death of Dr Jack TREVOR. Before his death, however, he did state that the Iwo Eleru skull was "absolutely longer and broader than Asselar or any living ,Nest African male" and that the "occipital curvature was almost identical with Bushman" skulls. In view of the association of Bushman skeletal remains with ·Wilton-type microlithic industries in East, Central and South Africa, the discovery of apparently protoBushman characteristics associated with a microlithic industry so far west of the hitherto known distribution is interesting. But then as far as I know this is the only Late Stone Age skeletal material yet recovered in the whole of the heavy rainfall area of West Africa and the Congo, because the acid soil conditions are normally so against preservation." - Thurstan Shaw, "FINDS AT THE IWO ELERU ROCK SHELTER, WESTERN NIGERIA" We know about the the Gobeki Tepe sanctuary in Turkey, which is actual evidence of what could be called "civilization", but nobody claims that all the achievements of Eurasia have their origin in Turkey. By your logic, the Ham people of Northern Nigeria who are associated with the Nok culture (by Bernard Fagg (who virtually all people directly or indirectly rely on for their claims about relationships between Nigerian art from different Nigerian groups) and others) could claim that all the advanced cultures of Nigeria were derivative of the culture of the Ham people. On the Ogisos, it's not up to Professor Ekeh to describe a period he has not bothered to read about in depth. The same Professor Ekeh has criticized several of Egharevba's statements and is now relying heavily on particular selections of his work to make his interpretations of the Ogiso? He's relying on Isidore Okpewho's calculated attack on Benin (Okpewho's book, which Ekeh himself criticized heavily) to make his interpretations? In Isidore Okpewho's book attacking Benin history, he completely bungled the interpretation of the Oba of Benin's appellation, Uku Akpolokpolo, and tried to pass it off as scholarship. In the quotation about "sword bearer" the story ( "Ehi will enrich me" ) quoted by Okpewho and further distorted by Ekeh does not make a distinction between Ogiso and Oba, rather it claims that the Ogiso is the Oba in the very second paragraph of the story. The story was recorded by R.E. Bradbury and the story is about the superiority of the guardian spirit or soul (the ehi) which decides one's destiny. There are three children of a man called Erhamwoisa, and one of them is called "Ehi-will-enrich-me" and he triumphs in the end, becoming king. His brothers "Other-people-will-enrich-me" and "Ogiso-will-enrich-me" do not meet with success, and "Other people will enrich me" is even killed. The story is a fable about the primacy and importance of destiny and the soul. In the end, his ehi (guardian spirit or soul) did enrich him, while those who relied on other people or on the king were not enriched. To claim that the actual Ogiso "became the Oba's sword bearer" is nonsensical (and even contradicts Egharevba that you were telling bokohalal to read). Anyway, the Oba's sword bearers are the emada and they were not even grown men. If you actually read Egharevba and you'll see that he credits the Ogisos with many achievements. In fact, the oldest surviving house in Nigeria that bokohalal mentioned dates back to the Ogiso era. By the way, do you have any actual evidence that the Ijaw are "older than" or "more indigenous than" anybody in southern Nigeria? Or do you just immediately accept the Ijaw view of the world whenever it's presented to you? |
Bluetooth, so you at least admit the group in question ventures into only a few areas of crime as far as you can tell. There may be some hope for you after all. This is only the beginning. Eventually, you'll start to embrace reality completely and stop trying to tribalize every issue. Someday, with enough thought and hard work, you may even qualify as a full-fledged human being. |
Bluetooth, has anybody denied Bini herbalists yet? Herbalists are also not exclusive to anybody. |
Bluetooth Money rituals, drug trafficking, armed robbery, and kidnapping? Even you don't believe that Binis lead in that stuff. You're just posturing to save face. Nobody's even brought up credit fraud yet. Don't let anyone mention that. And I'm sure Shina Rambo was nearly as successful as Anini. ![]() |
~Bluetooth:https://www.nairaland.com/290447/ogun-state-oath-scandal-shame https://www.nairaland.com/901414/police-uncover-ritualists-fraudsters-shrine https://www.nairaland.com/446260/church-where-founders-skeleton-worshiped http://allafrica.com/stories/201001250959.html https://www.nairaland.com/104991/three-human-ritualists-arrested-akure https://www.nairaland.com/784788/girl-14-escapes-ritualists-ekiti http://www.zimbio.com/Nigeria/articles/D5VxWq9aNFG/How+Escaped+Ritualists+Victim+Recounts+Ordeal http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/news/national/2011/oct/20/national-20-10-2011-012.html Na wa for these Bini people o. . ![]() Nobody has a monopoly on this kind of stuff. |
He made the thread about Ojukwu in the opening when there was no reason to. The OP's statement "his lack of achievements before and after the civil war, made him ineligible to be a Nigerian hero" defeated the thread before it began. People could also criticize other people he listed in his opening post as heroes as a rebuttal of course, but the point is that he deliberately singled out Ojukwu for criticism in the opening post of the thread. |
This thread is basically a fail. |
This guy is just hype and self-aggrandizement. He's just an ordinary lecturer in some obscure university in the UK. But his children are real standouts. His eldest daughter is the youngest ever master's degree holder from Oxford and before that she broke some other records: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne-Marie_Imafidon http://yegs.org/yegs-hall-of-fame-anne-marie-imafidon-1990/ http://www.prlog.org/10755715-how-london-girl-became-the-youngest-mathematics-and-computer-science-graduate-from-oxford.html http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1434617 Here's something interesting on her: "In her spare time, at the weekend, she actively supports and volunteers in inner-city initiatives and projects, one of which is the Excellence in Education Programme, a non-for-profit alliance of charities, churches, schools and corporations who support the academic pursuits of disadvantaged students from disadvantaged backgrounds. Due to her immaculate academic record, and her outstanding achievements she has had numerous offers from blue-chip companies resulting in a bidding war between leading financial institutions such as Deutsche Bank and Goldman Sachs. A-Marie has reached the final in the Business Analyst of the Year Category of the prestigious British Computer Society (BCS) & Computing UK's annual IT Industry Awards which was won last year by the famous internet pioneer, Tim Berners-Lee. A-Marie has been recognised before and received the BBC academic award in 2006, and Microsoft Award for ICT. However, tonight's award is for her revolutionary work in realm of Ophthalmological informatics. She is the first BCS finalist to combine ICT with Ophthalmology in a unique way creating a new and innovative software to artificially clean lenses that has been piloted in Dollond and Aitchison stores Nationwide. This research was one of her Masters Projects in the Requirements Engineering element of her Maths and Computer Science degree at Oxford University. This has earnt her a place in the final ten in the Business Analyst of the Year category. A-Marie is "very delighted" to have been chosen as a finalist, and commented "I received some of the highest marks from my degree for this project, but I never thought it would get this level of recognition. It was a big surprise! I'm really grateful to Marina Jirotka who led the course for all her help and guidance." The UK IT Industry Awards are a benchmark for excellence throughout the computer industry. The Awards focus on the contribution of individuals, projects, organisations and technologies that have excelled in the use, development and deployment of IT in the past 12 months." http://avisami.com/content/avisami-director-prestigious-it-award His other daughter and son broke some record as well. |
Taharqa, Thanks for the information. Very enlightening stuff. I had seen it as a culture with an early black origin/root but which was essentially mixed/heterogeneous very early on, and later on taken over by non-blacks completely but I see now that this may not be the case and that it may only have become mixed later. There's just one possible hitch I see with regard to the "modern Egyptians are really Near Easterners and Mediterraneans that came to identify as Egyptians after moving there en masse" idea or the "modern Egyptians are really mostly of Near Eastern and Mediterranean stock but mixed with indigenous Egyptians" idea. How much of their (the non-black looking modern Egyptians who don't explicitly identify as being of non-Egyptian ethnic origin) DNA can be shown to be from or very close to that of the near-East/the Levant/Asiatics or Mediterranean groups? That was something else that I was hoping you would supply. Were they to be proven by someone else to have little admixture with Near Easterners/Levantine peoples or Mediterraneans and to be mostly related to other East African peoples, just as their ancestors were, wouldn't it make the claim that they are representative of Levantine or European migrants into Egypt during the Late Period or earlier that mixed with the indigenous population untenable? Maybe I'm missing something or misinterpreting something that you've already explained in your post above, but does proving that they don't have exactly the right cranial morphology to match the earliest Egyptians actually prove they are Mediterranean or Levantine rather than indigenous or prove that they are mostly of Mediterranean or Near Eastern ancestry if there isn't already evidence of significant/large genetic dissimilarity between them and ancient Egyptians or other East or Northeast Africans around today? Regarding Bernal's books, if you haven't read them in full, I would strongly suggest doing so. I've read volumes 1 and 2 and his book replying his critics and I plan to read volume 3 (about the linguistic evidence) sometime in the future. After reading three of his four books on this subject, I would say that it is very plausible that the Greeks were heavily influenced even to the point that it would not be inaccurate to argue that the roots of their civilization were indeed Afroasiatic (Egyptian and Semitic), not merely that they were influenced by Egypt and the Near East. I don't deny that they developed their own unique culture, philosophical ideas and social complexity afterwards and went on to make great strides, but I think it was probably more than mere influence after what I've read. It also makes sense to me from a purely logical standpoint: The ancient Greeks achieved so much and achieved so much more than the other European groups because they "stood on the shoulders of giants" due to what they inherited from the Near East and Egypt, just as the scholars of the Islamic Golden Age and the Renaissance built from the works of earlier scholars (especially Greek scholars and also Indian scholars in the case of the Islamic Golden Age). It is more than a little suspicious that the one place where high civilization really took off in Europe was Greece, when the ancestors of basically all the European groups who are stereotyped as being brilliant today (French, Germans, Russians, etc.) and considered as being the most brilliant of the European groups had achieved basically nil at that time or for centuries after the Greeks reached their zenith even when there wasn't really anything in their respective environments (for most of them) prohibiting such achievement/development. While there are certainly groups who have experienced a "Golden Age" without doing so based on the works of outside/external cultures or building on the achievements of ancient foreign cultures, all of these groups (such as Chinese or Indians), if not held back by difficult developmental/social conditions arising from their histories, seem to often exhibit the same characteristic brilliance shown by their ancestors to various degrees today, while the modern Greeks seem like a rather ordinary group of Europeans (like the Spaniards) and not at all the "cream of the crop" or the intellectual gods of the larger Indo-European group from which they came. [Not that I have anything against the actual Greek people, of course, just my personal observations.] |
Taharqa, I get your point, and what you wrote in #3 is something I've known for a while now, and it even ties in with the quotes from ancient historians (like Diodorus) and scholars noting that the "Ethiopians" colonized/started Egypt and it also ties in with Bruce Williams' work in a sense. So the issue of Egypt's culture being African is not really in question for me. But I noticed you cited articles by S.O.Y. Keita. Have you actually asked him what his views are on the "racial" makeup of the ancient Egyptians? From what I've read and heard from him I get the distinct impression that he holds that many/most of the Copts and other Egyptians there today (many of which we would not consider "black" in the modern sense because of their appearance) are representative of the kind of "racial" diversity (in terms of physical/outward appearance) that we could expect to see in Egypt in ancient times (Predynastic times even). Basically, it doesn't seem to be the case that he considers modern Egyptians to be significantly different from ancient Egyptians. You also referenced "mass migrations" of "Mediterraneans" and "Near Easterners". Can you provide any evidence to back up these claims about "mass migrations"? I haven't seen a single study supporting the idea that the majority of the people one sees in Egypt today are mostly or significantly descended from people who migrated into Egypt en masse at some much later period and I would like to be enlightened. As far as the Greeks copying the Egyptians, have you actually read Martin Bernal's Black Athena series of books (including his book responding to his critics, Black Athena Writes Back?) I think his basic thesis - even if some of the specifics are faulty or a few are tenuous - is highly plausible. Obviously the Greeks were innovators in their own right, but I suspect that many of their basics were essentially derivative of both Egyptian and Phoenician knowledge. The claims about China or (non-Greek) Europe or the Olmecs are nonsense to me however. I have read the claims and counter-claims and I know that those are bogus. |
NRI PRIEST: DeletedIt was a silly/dumb post though. The thread is "Bini names and meaning" and you posted a fictional "mixed" name. And don't derail this thread into ethnic mudslinging. People will read what you wrote and sling back. |
NRI PRIEST: Ugwuakpogbuolam=the mountain has crucified me. Bini/efema/eshan mix.Ugwu? Gbuolam? Sounds Igboid. I thought you said you used to live in Benin? |
speedyboi: I didn't say d 2nd......one naira added it to his quote 4rm no where......plsI quoted it as it was. You edited it later. |
The men with the hyenas are entertainers. People don't keep hyenas as pets. |
There's nothing unreasonable about asking for at least 3 international airports in a region and it shouldn't really result in 9 pages of debate. Some countries smaller than the Southeastern political region probably have more than 3. The only issue is quality. If SE politicians demand from Jonathan and/or his successor 3 international airports within a short time frame of each other, they're likely to get shortchanged on quality. It will have to be gradual. In fact, one really good airport of truly international quality should be built before relying on the same politician's administration to build two others. If the first one isn't up to standard, the next two probably won't be any better. |
If he's starting a new party, why take the acronym of an old party from the 60s? Maybe he's trying to invoke the memory of that party? |
speedyboi: Nd who told u I'm a yoruba sef........? I'm nt bt dats d truth, evri1 knws it speedyboi: I'm sure they chose d yorubas sef because d tribe is always free 4rm scandals....I'm proud to be 1. |
" DECLARED MONUMENTS IN NIGERIA Chief Enogie Aikoriogie's House in Obasagbon: This house is mainly composed of a courtyard which is all that survives of the original building which was probably built in the second half of the 19th century. The courtyard is believed to be melted in plan or in structure since it was first built. There are many features in the building which indicate direct links with the architecture of Benin, these include horizontally fluted walls, the Central impluvium and the carved decoration of features which are not known in Benin: these are the symmetry of the plan having the main entrance door and the main alter on a longitudinal axis and the eight very heavy mud pillars supporting the side lintel walls. These pillars measure 2 feet 6 inches by 4 feet in plan and are 8 feet high. Declaration: Declared Monument on 1st June, 1961 (The house and the compound) " http://www.nigerianmuseums.org/Enogie.htm ^^^^^ If anyone has or can find any images of this building I would greatly appreciate either a link to the image or information about any sources I can find an image of it from. |
anonymous6: BINIS: THE ODUDUWAN LEGACYWho wrote this nonsense? Benin payed tax to Warri? The Itsekiri conquered Lagos? The Edo got beads from the Itsekiri? The Edo are descended from some Itsekiri clan? Dore Numa restored the Benin monarchy? The language of the Benin court was Yoruba? The heads of the kings of Benin were buried in Ife? The Binis call God Oyisa? Urhobos claim descent from Oduduwa? This is some heavy propaganda. |
Dede1: One of Ogisos lamented about the worse blunder he ever committed was an attempt to move southeast ward.lol, which one? In fact, it is recorded that certain besieged kingdoms had sought military help in the form of mercenary from NdigboStrictly out of curiosity, which kingdoms were these? |
Good for Kenya. Hope it's in commercially viable quantities. |
They're both funny looking. |
Ijebu Yoruba. He admitted on another thread a while back that his Yoruba wasn't exactly the best. Ijebu-Igbo is just a town, not a group, right? So even if he were from there he'd still be Ijebu Yoruba. |
Ileke-IdI:amor4ce is Ijebu. |
Good news. |
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