₦airaland Forum

From easily available information, the word omoluabi does not have any "racial" or ethnic connotation, although obviously one would have to be a Yoruba to even understand the word. I wonder why the use of omoluabi would provoke comparisons with Nazism.


More on omoluabi:

http://www.westmail.org/columnists/professor-isola-and-the-interpretation-of-omoluabi/

http://thebestof2014./2010/10/01/omoluabi-self-actualization-and-communal-responsibility/


This article by a Yoruba academic has a particularly detailed discussion of the word:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=Human_Personality_and_the_Yoruba_Worldview&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jpanafrican.com%2Fdocs%2Fvol2no9%2F2.9_Human_Personality_and_the_Yoruba_Worldview.pdf&ei=iOBsT-2aEYaQ2gX6m5DNAg&usg=AFQjCNEPO3oWMxHxVMQ8MqoSMDon7yrKNQ

I have no particular interest in Aregbesola, but it's pretty obvious that his error is thinking that a whole ethnic group must necessarily support his political party in order to be good people, not using the word omoluabi to express this sentiment.

There's no ethnic controversy here.

Dede1: Please include that the first Nigerian PhD earner was Igbo man, Dr. Nnedubem Okongwu.

Joel Okwunodo (Nnodu) Okongwu? Did he have an older brother or something?

Nnodu Joel Okongwu's Ph.D is from the early 1940s. In fact, his Ph.D dissertation was about education in Nigeria between 1842 and 1942 and could not have been completed any earlier than 1942.

Nathaniel Fadipe's Ph.D was awarded in 1939.

Both of them died very early in their careers, sadly.


Who was Nnedubem Okongwu, is he related to Nnodu Joel Okongwu, and what was his dissertation topic? And what is the date and the university it was from?

If this Nnedubem Okongwu is the same person as Nnodu Okongwu, then your claim is mistaken. If he is someone else entirely, please supply more information about him so that others can verify your earlier assertion. I have read elsewhere that Nnodu Okongwu was the first Igbo to get a Ph.D so your assertion (about "Nnedubem" Okongwu) would contradict that.

@ noiseless

emmatok and emmke are completely different posters. Emmatok is Yoruba. Emmke is from somewhere in the North-central, possibly Plateau or Benue.

@ realchange

Who wants to ally with a brainless devil like you that wants to take offshore oil money from the coastal states based on spurious arguments?

The author of this article lied that my state (Edo) was being shortchanged by "5 greedy littoral states" and I opposed it.

As for who is really lying, that insinuation about Italy and about the export of women underage, overage, married and unmarried is far worse than the drunken fisherman stuff this same poster was raging against but he is too dishonest to admit to what he was really getting at. I won't engage with him again because he just has no integrity and resorts to increasing his font size instead of stepping back and honestly examining what he wrote.

Beaf,

I'm not interested in going back and forth with a robot.

When someone uses the phrase "drunken fisherman" without mentioning the name of a specific ethnic group or state or mentioning any group at all, you scream bigotry (https://www.nairaland.com/605766/rascals-govt-jonathan-drunk-fisherman/2#7741860), even when they don't mention a group or state that they could be accused of being bigoted against explicitly.

But when someone says to someone else "your states "other source of income" is from the export of your women to Italy (underage and overage, young and old, unmarried and married)" it's not bigotry.

You obviously have your own interpretation and I'm stunned that you can't see the contradiction. But I disagree with you completely and don't intend to change my opinion or interpretation anytime soon because I know what I read.

I have no more time to waste on this, so don't expect another response from me on this particular disagreement.

@ Beaf

Keep deceiving yourself and if you like, type in an even bigger font size.

That poster, for no reason, made it a point to attack Bayelsans.

You responded, and in the course of doing so, made statements that could only be interpreted in the exact same way that you interpret the frequent "drunken fishermen" statements.

Even a hat wearing monkey can understand what was written there, so consider me whatever you like. I know what I've read. I don't need to see 10cirenoh actually type the word "Ijaw" before I would interpret what he posted as bigotry, nor do I need to see you type the name of the specific group before I take issue with the statements.

Beaf: [size=14pt]Where is the bigotted post against Edo state or are you just a small-minded liar?
I will ask again, is this jealousy of some sort?[/size]

I said that you had, on more than one occasion, made statements against a specific group from Edo state.

I don't know if you have problems with basic reading comprehension, or if you're trying to worm your way out of this, but I know for a fact what I stated earlier.

And if you take offense to the "drunken fishermen" comments and interpret them as bigotry in multiple threads in this forum, I am at a complete loss as to how you could interpret those statements of yours that I quoted as anything else.


As for jealousy, I have no reason to be jealous of you.

Once again, what's your issue? What's provoking you?

Beaf: Is this jealousy or something?

If you are not a lying coward, give proof to the claim you have just made.
If you cannot do that, then carry the brand of lying scum who is in the same category as alj harem.

I really hate liars.

@ Beaf, was this purely political?

Beaf: What a donkey!
Hehe! I'm not from Bayelsa, so you are the FOOL here! And regardless of how you look at it, my state is better than your dump. Thank God!

You claimed to be from the SS and instead you have been shown to be a crusty arsed parasite whose state produces fvkall, yet you can open your parasitic mouth to lash those that feed you and who you have perpertrated human rights abuses against for half a century.

Dude, whats the name of your fvking parasitic state na? grin
Is it too hard to tell us? Lets know whether you add value to Nigeria or if your states "other source of income" is from the export of your women to Italy (underage and overage, young and old, unmarried and married).

Dunce.

https://www.nairaland.com/602652/bayelsa-tops-nigeria-unemployment-chart/2#7722585

I can't find the second statement right now, but I specifically remember there being two statements from you on Edo, which is why I was stunned that you were even commenting on that "Myth or Reality: Yoruba is closer to the Edos culturally than the East" thread.

Like I said, I don't know what your issue is exactly.

This argument is getting more and more windy with no basis in logic whatsoever. The FACT is that these states ARE NOT independent of Nigeria, and they are not in other countries. How can an educated man use "What could be" to support his argument on this issue?
Well, any state in Nigeria can also decide to be part of any country in the world, if we are to go down that lane of logic, in which case Lagos can decide to secede and join China and we lose whatever investments we have there as a country.
You people should stop thinking like illiterates.
Some of us in SE support you based on sentiments, but we would NOT support you if you keep thinking like brainless oafs.

Nuff said.

How can an educated man use "what could be"??!!

Have you ever heard of a thought experiment??!!

The rest of the drivel you spewed has no bearing on the truth in what I posted.

And you are talking about "support you based on sentiments"? Have you forgotten that my state (Edo) does not touch the coast, and could not get any revenue from offshore oil? Like I said before, one does not have to be from a coastal state to use basic common sense.

"Man becomes a sophist and super-subtle in fields where he has no adequate store of solid information."

Don't be a sophist.

You do not have any right to tell Beaf where he thinks he should be aligned.

I did not tell him where he should be aligned, unless you have difficulty reading. It is getting annoying correcting these kind of slip ups.

The fact is that Beaf has no right to speak for any group other than his own.

I have read multiple bigoted statements from Beaf against a particular group from Edo state, which is why I am particularly annoyed when he gives people the false impression that anything he says has any validity with respect to Edo state. I don't know what his issue is with Edo state, but he should not ever give people the impression that the "SS" as a whole (which includes Edo) automatically agrees with whatever stuff he makes up and posts on this forum.

To be honest with you, the whole "SS" idea is getting more and more idiotic.

In case you forgot, I was the one who started a whole thread dedicated to how nonsensical the SS idea was and how some Igbo politicians (such as Ekwueme) created "South-South" in the 90s.

Save your whining about SS for someone (like Beaf) who thinks it has any validity. The concept is nonsense, and that was why I made it a point to criticize Beaf.

I say that because even some groups in Delta have SERIOUS issues with you Edo people for instance.

This is why it's aggravating discussing anything with you.

Nobody in Edo state is begging for a union with Delta state. By the way, there is a small population of people who should be considered Edo in Delta state.

And I can assure you that issues between some groups in the old "East" are just as great, if not greater than between some groups in Edo and Delta.

You argument above support that from your side, and I would think that Beaf may see it exactly from your opposite direction. The "SS" is a political and economic red herring which will soon disintegrate. The two bolded is part of why I believe in EASTERN NIGERIA, but I would join Beaf's Isoko and Anioma (if they both continue to identify with Eastern Nigeria).

There is no evidence at all that the Isoko in general have some sort of inclination toward the SE or that they "identify" with the SE, even if one poster named Beaf might. I was noting that the Isoko claims about the origins of some of their groups may have something to do with Beaf's inclinations. If the Isoko do have some sort of inclination toward the SE, they have failed to make it known outside of one poster on Nairaland.

Metempsychosis or reincarnation in particular are not foreign to African traditional religious beliefs.

Not all groups had it, but some did. I know for a fact that my group did.

As for whether it actually happens, I don't accept that it did since there is no strong evidence or proof in support of the idea.

I see why people would have believed that it happened and why they would want to believe that it happened though.

@ Beaf

I've never seen this level of obsession with a "SE"/"SS" alliance from any non-Igbo Nigerians west of the Niger river. Some of the "SS" groups east of the Niger may consider themselves "joined at the hip" politically or culturally with the SE, but I have never heard or read of any non-Igbos west of the Niger river exhibiting such a sentiment. Your tendency to continuously repeat and promote this sentiment is why some people on this forum keep questioning whether or not you are really Isoko. I don't doubt that you are Isoko, but I'm just letting you know why people kept doubting your origin. But then again, some Isoko clans claimed Igbo origin originally, so maybe the sentiment you're expressing is natural and not a deviation from the norm because of the particular makeup of your specific ethnic group. I think in the future maybe you should state that "SS east of the Niger, Igbo west of the Niger, and my own Isoko group" are "joined at the hip" with the SE, in order to not give people the wrong impression.


@ koruji, if somebody at your level of intelligence actually accepts the preposterous argument of this article, that is worrying. If it were somebody dumber I would not even bother responding. What the U.S. does or does not do does not determine the actions a country with a unique situation and history like Nigeria should do.

It's amazing how people's ability to carry out basic reasoning with respect to a very simple situation can be distorted as soon as the topic of oil money comes up. If Akwa Ibom were part of Cameroon, you would not have to worry about offshore oil money accruing to Akwa Ibom state via the coast, because it would not even be relevant. The coastal states are the only reason offshore oil is relevant to Nigeria and this is a very simple thing to understand.

If Bayelsa, Rivers, Delta, Ondo, and Lagos were part of other countries, you would not have to worry about offshore oil. One's state does not have to touch the coast to support the offshore oil derivations going to those states but the author of this article has woven a web of distortions and red herrings in order to try and obscure a very simple truth.

And if oil had been discovered in the North (because of the Chad Basin), the same Northern intelligentsia that are arguing that offshore oil past a certain completely arbitrary distance does not belong to states would never have bothered to bring up the argument.

The ludicrous argument promoted by certain people online (ex: Ndu_chucks), and by northern pseudo-intelligentsia in real life, about offshore oil is a feint. The nation, and northerners in particular, should be worried about corrupt politicians, poverty, and terrorism in the north.

erniewhez: pls help my curiousity, ive heard so much,about nigerians making such outstanding records abroad, pls do anyone knw any hausa man been noted with such record in history, jst curious.

I don't know if they're actually Hausa specifically, but their names indicate that they are Northern:

Abba Gumel:

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~gumelab/

Sarki A. Abdulkadir:

https://medschool.mc.vanderbilt.edu/facultydata/php_files/part_dept/show_part.php?id3=15921

http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/root/vumc.php?site=vmcpathology&doc=14877

Actually, I see that he has already published the third volume of the series. I'll have to read that at some point.

Thanks OAM4J.

I did not in any way suggest that the word originated in 1863 or that Europeans only came to Nigeria in 1863. I don't see how one could extract that from what I posted.

My point is that this word did not refer to Igbos. By the way, I am extremely skeptical of the claim that any Europeans at any time in the pre-colonial era or even in the colonial era (except possibly for anthropologists like Basden, Jeffreys, etc.) would even have attempted to pronounce "onye Igbo" or that they would have had any reason to refer to anything other than the single name of the group (Igbo, which they usually wrote as Ibo).

By the way, what is the literal meaning of "onye bekee"?

As for the "attention-crazed wiseacre", I don't know what you're talking about.


@ Ufeolorun, is there an etymology in Yoruba that could be constructed for "oyinbo" that means "stranger" or "foreigner" rather than referring to peeled skin? I ask because I came across a book where someone had assumed that oyinbo meant stranger and put stranger in parentheses after oyinbo as if that were the definition, but the author of the book was an oyibo (or if the vowel i is nasalized, an oyinbo) so I was in doubt as to whether the assertion was actually accurate.

"WHC: Let's talk about Martin Bernal. His Black Athena has raised quite a controversy.4 What do you think?

Ehret: Well, Martin Bernal has done fine work. There's really nothing the matter with it. His grandfather was Alan Gardner, a famous and important Egyptologist. He went into other things, but has always been, at heart, an Egyptologist. He knows his Egyptian materials very, very well. And as he started looking at these materials, he became interested in the history of literature dealing with Greek-Egyptian connection. He saw that, as you moved into the 19th century, histories became increasingly distant from what the Greeks themselves said about their Egyptian connections. People imagined that Greece had this wonderful sort of Enlightenment before the Enlightenment. In many senses this wasn't wrong; the Greeks really had tremendous breakthroughs in thinking. But they didn't come up with all of this in isolation. We can't ignore, for instance, Euclid saying that he stayed in Egypt and, after he returned, wrote the Geometry.

A whole bunch of people in the Classics departments have made their careers - and they deeply feel this - the wonder of the Ancient Greeks. They get great joy and happiness from doing this. If you make any connection between Africa and what the Greeks were doing, our Western upbringing can come back to surface in a way people don't realize is taking place.

They don't realize it because they feel they have eliminated racism from their thinking. They're sure that Africans, given different circumstances, would have been just as advanced as everyone else. They don't realize that, actually, Africans were just as advanced. They have, maybe, more continent to move into; they have less dense population and only some areas move into urbanization. Societies develop more oral literature, so they don't have the written documentation—people choose alternative modes to develop their history. And then there's the thought of Egypt was this place that got great but then just stopped, stagnated. And that's not a correct reading of history either. The New Kingdom was doing things that were far different from the Old and Middle periods. Now, beyond the New Kingdom, nobody pays much attention. I want to fix up Civilizations of Africa to go into 7th century Egypt. There are important things, new things, happening there.

Anyway: the idea of all this Egyptian influence on Greece is threatening to people who fear that it challenges Greek uniqueness and originality. I don't think it does at all. After all, human societies invent new patterns through encounter with other societies. What Greeks achieved is all the richer if we understand that they were grappling with ideas from Egypt, Mesopotamia, and elsewhere.

And then you have a very different reaction from Afrocentrists. Some Afrocentrists are really out there, far beyond left field. Martin and I don't mind that they use our work, as long as they are grounded in the evidence. But Classicists say, well, Bernal is just an Afrocentrist. And he isn't. He's someone who's got real evidence, and who's got a valid critique of European scholarly understanding of Greece over the last century and a half or so. Of course, some of the people he criticizes are among the founding fathers of Classics.

But, yeah, it does look like the Middle Kingdom did have a big impact on the Mediterranean. Maybe there wasn't a circum-Aegean conquest from Egypt, but there was a cultural impact that was later remembered. I think basically Martin has really enriched things.

Now, as for the linguistic materials: some Greek words are going to turn out to be early borrowings. I want to get together with Martin on this issue. There are definitely word borrowings from Egypt into Greece, and there's certainly a lot vocabulary that comes from ancient Semitic languages. "

http://worldhistoryconnected.press.illinois.edu/2.1/ehret.html






"WHC: How would you reconstruct the religious beliefs from linguistic evidence?

Ehret: The case of this oldest word for God in Niger-Congo is instructive. This word for God was nyambe. The ­amb was the verb. The ­e was a suffix you needed in order to make the verb into a noun. The category of noun, the singular/plural marker, was the ny-. In the Ashanti kingdom, it was nyame. In the kingdom of Kongo, it was zambe. These were sound changes, but it was the same word. Now, ny- signified a category for animals and things that don't fit into any other category. So we have here is a word that means "the beginner of things." Literally, God is the origin of things. The verb it comes from tells us these people already had the creator god concept.

Other terms for God come later. You get a term which means "the one who arranges and puts everything in order" in eastern Africa. In some languages, the word for God is the same word as for "potter"; the idea is of someone who molds human beings out of clay. It sounds like the Biblical story, though there's no historical connection.

Something that we don't have as well pinned down linguistically, but it seems to be across the area, is a second level of spirit, a spirit who had a territorial region of authority: some sort of lesser spirit, but not God. That particular spirit may originally have been associated with a particular watershed or with the source of a particular stream. Sometimes, though not always, this idea exists in an area where there aren't so many streams.

The third and most important level was the level of the ancestors. They were the people you had to show respect for. They were the people you might go to for help. God is distant. When Catholicism comes in, the ancestors may be viewed as saints. They were, in some sense, intermediaries. But they weren't only intermediaries. They had their own power. You had to pay respect to them and conduct rites to them, both communally and individually.

19

WHC: You describe two other groups. One of them is the Afrasans. Can you talk about them for a moment?

Ehret: These are people who have been called Afro-Asiatic and also Afrasian. I'm saying "Afrasan" because I'm trying to get "Asia" out. There is still this idea that the Afro-Asiatic family had to come out of Asia. Once you realize that it's an African family with one little Asian offshoot, well, that itself is a very important lesson for world historians.

We actually have DNA evidence which fits very well with an intrusion of people from northwestern African into southwestern Asia. The Y-chromosome markers, associated with the male, fade out as you go deeper into the Middle East.

Another thing about the Afrasans: their religious beliefs. Anciently, each local group had its own supreme deity. This is called "henotheism." In this kind of religion, you have your own god to whom you show your allegiance. But you realize that other groups have their own deities. The fact that they have deities different from yours doesn't mean their deities don't exist.

This kind of belief still exists. It's fading, maybe on its last legs, in southeastern Ethiopia, among people of the Omati group. They descend from the earliest split in the Semitic family. Way up in the mountains, they have this henotheism. They have a deity of their clan, or their small group of closely related clans. They have their priest-chief who has to see to the rites of that deity.

We see the same kind of thing in ancient Egypt. If we go to there, we discover that the Egyptian gods began as local gods. With Egyptian unification, we move from this henotheism to polytheism. To unify Egypt, after all, you have to co-opt the loyalty of local groups and recognize their gods. We have no direct evidence, but it's certainly implied by the things we learn about the gods in the written records we do have.

20

WHC: You seem to be suggesting that the Semitic monotheism ­ Jewish, Christian and Islamic monotheism ­ descends from African models. Is that fair?

Ehret: Yeah, actually it is. Look at the first commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." It's not like the Muslim creed, which is "There is no God but God." It's doesn't say "there is no god but Yahweh, and Moses is his prophet." It is an admittance that there are other gods. It is an example of henotheism. And the Hebrew tribes are like the Omati clan groups. The tribes are clans writ larger. Like the Omati clans, they track their ancestry back ten or fifteen generations to a common ancestor. And these common ancestors were twelve brothers. (Actually, there are thirteen. They have to turn two of them, Ephraim and Manasseh, into half tribes, because thirteen wasn't a good number. I always loved that. There are really thirteen tribes, but you have to combine two of them).

The Canaanite cities have an alternative Semitic structure: polytheism. There's Astarte and Baal and the various gods that you'll find in South Arabia. So it looks like in the early Semitic world, you have two coexisting religions. You have polytheism among the ones who are really more urbanized. Then you have henotheistic groups.

What I see here is that earlier Middle Eastern polytheism is influencing Semitic religion. After all, the early Semites were just a few Africans arriving to find a lot of other people already in the area. So they're going to have to accommodate. Some groups, maybe ones who live in peripheries, in areas with lower population densities, may be able to impose the henotheistic religion they arrived with.

21

WHC: How does a small group of Semites coming in from Africa transform the language of a region in which they are a minority?

Ehret: One of the archaeological possibilities is a group called the Mushabaeans. This group moves in on another group that's Middle Eastern. Out of this, you get the Natufian people. Now, we can see in the archaeology that people were using wild grains the Middle East very early, back into the late glacial age, about 18,000 years ago. But they were just using these seeds as they were. At the same time, in this northeastern corner of Africa, another people ­ the Mushabaeans? ­ are using grindstones along the Nile, grinding the tubers of sedges. Somewhere along the way, they began to grind grain as well. Now, it's in the Mushabian period that grindstones come into the Middle East.

Conceivably, with a fuller utilization of grains, they're making bread. We can reconstruct a word for "flatbread," like Ethiopian injira. This is before proto-Semitic divided into Ethiopian and ancient Egyptian languages. So, maybe, the grindstone increases how fully you use the land. This is the kind of thing we need to see more evidence for. We need to get people arguing about this.

And by the way: we can reconstruct the word for "grindstone" back to the earliest stage of Afrasan. Even the Omati have it. And there are a lot of common words for using grasses and seeds."



http://worldhistoryconnected.press.illinois.edu/2.1/ehret.html




@ Negro Ntns, I also noticed that you started a thread in the culture section which touches on something that's tangentially relevant to this thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/874750/afrocentric-examination-greek-philosophy-stolen#10230553

I suggest reading the work of the work of Martin Bernal to see how he defends vigorously the basic tenets of certain Afrocentric scholars against certain Eurocentric distortions of world history.

Here's a link to Bernal's extremely interesting criticism of Mary Lefkowitz's book Not Out of Africa

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/1996/96.04.05.html

And here's a link to his website on Black Athena:

http://www.blackathena.com/outline.php

http://www.blackathena.com/response.php

I hope he completes any other planned volumes before his time is up.

Oyibo does not refer to Igbos. Whoever made up that stuff on wiki is just deceiving themselves.

There is actually written evidence of the word "oyibo" being used to refer to a white man from Richard Burton's 1863 article: "My Wanderings in West Africa: A Visit to the Renowned Cities of Warri and Benin". Fraser's Magazine, 67.

Oyibo is also cognate with the Edo word ebo, also referring to a white man. The Edo word for the Igbo is Igbon and there is no confusion between the two.

One possible explanation is that somebody gave him some strong peyote or some mushrooms or some other psychoactive substance, which he took either willingly or it was perhaps slipped into his drink or food covertly, and then he couldn't handle it. Just a conjecture.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4554422.stm


Those Russians should be careful. This guy is extremely shady:

Hwang Woo-suk (Korean: 황우석, born January 29, 1953)[1] is a South Korean veterinarian and researcher. He was a professor of theriogenology and biotechnology at Seoul National University (dismissed on March 20, 2006) who became infamous for fabricating a series of experiments, which appeared in high-profile journals, in the field of stem cell research. Until November 2005, he was considered one of the pioneering experts in the field, best known for two articles published in the journal Science in 2004 and 2005 where he reported to have succeeded in creating human embryonic stem cells by cloning.

On May 12, 2006, Hwang was charged with embezzlement and bioethics law violations after it emerged much of his stem cell research had been faked.[2] The Korea Times reported on June 10, 2007, that Seoul National University fired him, and the South Korean government canceled his financial support and barred him from engaging in stem cell research [3] While being charged with fraud and embezzlement, he has kept a relatively low profile at the Sooam Bioengineering Research Institute in Yongin, Gyeonggi Province, where he currently leads research efforts on creating cloned pig embryos and using them to make embryonic stem-cell lines.[4] Since the controversy subsided, despite the past history and his lost credibility as a scientist, Hwang's lab has been actively publishing manuscripts, many of which have appeared on PubMed, the online database for biomedical research. In June 2010, a groundbreaking ceremony was held in Guro-gu, Seoul, for a new addition to Hwang's Sooam Bioengineering Research Institute.[5] In February 2011, Hwang visited Libya as part of a W150 billion project in the North African country to build a stem cell research center and transfer relevant technology. However, the project was canceled when civil war started there.[6]

Hwang was sentenced to a two years suspended prison sentence at the Seoul Central District Court on 26 October 2009, after being found guilty of embezzlement and bioethical violations but cleared of fraud.[7][8] On this same day, CNN reported that the scientist in 2006 admitted faking his findings, after questions of impropriety had emerged.[9] He had his conviction upheld on 15 December 2010 by an appeals court in South Korea, which knocked 6 months off Hwang’s suspended sentence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_Woo-suk

At about the 1:18-1:19 mark, Balewa was going to start saying something, but then Kennedy (who didn't think Balewa was about to say anything because of the pause after his first statement) interrupts him. Then there is a brief awkward silence. Since Balewa didn't speak up again after being unintentionally interrupted, Kennedy continues as if nothing happened.

I did like this comment from Balewa though:

"It was indeed a very great day for us when D1ck Tiger beat the American, Gene Fulmer."



A nice response.

lol, no regional police are not a new idea. That stuff was actually discussed in the 1950s. I don't have the link to the article I read it in anymore but I definitely remember reading about that before. It is not a new idea since it was discussed many decades ago, and anyway Fashola was asking for state police months before this thread by ndu chucks. Ndu chucks probably came across Fashola's recent mention of an old idea online, it sank somewhere into the depths of his mind, he forgot about it and then later it manifested again in this thread.

I refuse to give Ndu chuks credit for any political innovation when such ideas have been around for decades and when it has been discussed months ago on this forum and elsewhere. Also, ndu chucks is just too sinister for me to give him credit for anything anyway.

As for the bight stuff, I said it before, that was for his own amusement. He knows the implications of what he's saying and that's exactly why he made it a point to mention Awolowo specifically. I'm also 100% sure that he posted the map for his own amusement at the fallout that would ensue.

The forum regressed.

This new look and layout is just bad.

"by introducing a new idea of regionalization"

lmao



I don't even know what to say after reading that.

The thread was bait as indicated by the Awolowo comment, and the map is laughable and not something I would bother to discuss seriously.

Ndu_chucks created another trolling thread and people actually responded seriously.

He started with a deliberately provocative title, and even went so far as to suggest that the Bight of Biafra be renamed after Awolowo.

Then he posted a bizarre map pulled from nowhere and, without commenting extensively on it, sat back and laughed his a$$ off while people argued furiously about it.

The guy is just devious.

https://vml1.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Invention.jpg?9d7bd4

Is this supposed to be it?

Who do they think they can fool with this?

They were too lazy to even make their fake invention decent looking.

I don't understand why anybody would think the claims were true.

I don't know why characters like Emeagwali, this Erinle guy, the "Emagnetodynamics" guy (Izuogu), Gabriel Oyibo, and the guy who claimed he had a cure for AIDS keep on popping up, but this kind of fraudulence is getting annoying fast.

Andre Uweh:
The Oba of Benin-HRH Erediuwa has always intervened in Edo state politics.  I can Remember how Gov Onyearugbulem suspended him because of this idiotic act.
The man should stay far away from Politics.

Some people are just so dumb and delusional. Case in point being the post above. Onyearugbulem was a slowpoke:

http://www.nigerdeltacongress.com/iarticles/igbo_culture_onyearugbulem_and_h.htm (not that I agree with the ethnic argument of the article, but the guy was clearly a fool, or else he would not go and insult someone (Chief Ajasin) nearly 50 years older than him to the man's face!)

Onyearugbum even tried to make the position of chairman of the council of traditional rulers rotational, which is absurd in a place where traditional hierarchy is taken seriously. That's why idiots (like Onyearugbum) shouldn't be in the position to interfere in matters they can't comprehend. And suspending any traditional ruler from a position on a council because of rumors and gossip that he prefers one candidate to another (Lucky Igbinedion)? Just idiotic.

Onlytruth: The point is that my folks tried to solve the Fulani problem early enough, and that most Nigerian tribes still don't understand what they tried to do.
Like I said, it is a high stakes game. Perhaps if the British didn't intervene, the North would have seceded under Gowon. Problem solved.
Again I hate round robin debates that achieve nothing. So, I drop this too.

Lol, "your folks"?

Earlier you said: "That was what Nzeogwu and his team wanted to stop in January 1966. Almost all non-Igbo Nigerians still don't understand what they tried to do, even till today."

Now you're repeating it, but attaching the claim of "your folks" to it?

Later if people say that it was an Igbo coup, you'll disagree with them, but you're claiming that it was "your folks" that tried to "solve" the so-called "Fulani problem" and you're still trying to attribute to Nzeogwu some ethnic conquest agenda that he never possessed. It was the Nigerian military that rebelled and slaughtered people in Jan. 1966, not "your folks".

Look the truth is that there was not a Fulani problem in any way, shape or form.

If Awo and Zik had joined forces at the national level, the so-called "Fulani problem" would never even have existed.

In fact, imagine that Awo and Zik had never existed and that two much milder, less prominent, more mediocre personalities that didn't have a strong personal dislike of each other had emerged as leaders of the Western and Eastern region eventually.

Sure the West could ally with the North first, or the East could ally with the North first, but eventually, at some point the West and East could and probably would ally with one another. That could have eventually happened in the absence of two regional leaders with a strong dislike for one another and in the absence of a civil war creating bad blood.

And in a case where the West and East align first, instead of either side aligning with the North, the North would be divided first, separating the Tivs and other Middle Belters from the Hausa and Fulani. That could have actually happened! It seems so impossible now, but it was in no way impossible.

The Fulanis were not in any way destined to rule Nigeria except that some leaders in the south thought that the union of west and east would mean the exclusion of the north which would lead to a fracture and marginalization of the north that would make them quit Nigeria eventually.

There were also Northern and Western soldiers in the January coup, so you still don't understand my Peter, Paul, John analogy

I understood your comparisons just fine. Like I said, the so-called "Northern" counter coup included a few southerners, just as the so-called "Igbo coup" of January actually included some non-Igbos. In both cases it was a rebellion by the Nigerian military against a government that was perceived as flawed in some way.

The Jan. 1966 coup was supposedly a pre-emptive coup. Same for the July 1966 coup. They both thought they were proactively stopping something devious that was imminent. In both cases though, it was the Nigerian military that rebelled, not a specific "tribe".

Now to claim that the destruction of a regime (the Ironsi regime), which cannot honestly be claimed by anyone with a single shred of honesty in them to have represented "the south", is equivalent to "walking all over the south" couldn't be more false or fraudulent. I don't care about Ironsi, whether he would have lived or died, or what happened to his close buddies and I can assure you that most of the south would not have approved of the series of actions that he took.

Nzeogwu should have been executed within a few weeks after his surrender after as much information as possible was gleaned from him. Same with other collaborators. The Ironsi regimes' decision to wait until August or October (whichever one it is) was moronic. Somebody competent should have taken charge and reversed these constant delays and postponements, whether these postponements were coming directly from Ironsi or just someone in his regime.

If somebody who does not represent me or what I could stand by, meets death at the hands of his enemies, and his supporters meet death, how on earth am I supposed to feel "walked all over" when I didn't care about him in the first place? Ironsi is not mourned uniformly throughout the southern part of Nigeria. He is basically seen as an incompetent throughout most of it.

No, you did not understand the point I was making about Ethiopians and Eritreans being one people.
Fulani led Nigerian troops killed and starved 2 million people to death just to enforce their rule on Nigeria.
That is almost the total population of Eritrea as of when the "war" raged. The Ethiopians never used scotch earth strategies agains the Eritreans, probably because they are same people. It will not be like that in Nigeria.

1. It's either you're deliberately refusing to see my point or you somehow can't comprehend what I'm stating.

So let me spell this out.

a) The Ethiopians and Eritreans are almost the same people.

b) knowing that they are so closely related, it would, to some degree, seem defensible for Ethiopia to incorporate them into their nation to naive onlookers

c) the attempts to colonize Eritrea and impose Ethiopianness on them were and still are rejected by the actual Eritreans however

d) the Eritrean-Ethiopian war was nothing friendly and neither side cared about restraint and hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed or made refugees. There is nothing like a friendly war. Saying they never used "scorched earth" strategies against the Eritreans is absurd and false. Just because they were trying to make the Eritreans into Ethiopians that does not mean their effort was tame. In fact, what you stated is the exact opposite of the truth. The Ethiopians engaged heavily in scorched earth tactics against Eritrea. If Ethiopia wasn't landlocked and could have blockaded them successfully, I have no doubt that they would have done that as well to make them capitulate. The war was not as brutal as the Nigerian-Biafran war because the Ethiopians did not have the resources or outside connections/support to successfully cut off the Eritreans from the outside world, not because of some non-extant restraint from Ethiopia.

e) Notwithstanding the similarity between the groups, the world conceded that Eritreans did not have to be forced to be in Ethiopia. Now given the dissimilarity between the Fulani and the southern groups, there will not even be any naive onlookers to presume that Northern incursions into any southern territories for annexation will somehow be justified.

In fact, the close cultural or ethnic or linguistic similarity between different groups is not the basis on which a union between them is justified if the legitimate representatives of both groups do not explicitly agree to a union. That principle applies universally.  Not just to Nigeria and Biafra, but to the constituent groups of Nigeria and Biafra.



2. Stating that "Fulani led Nigerian troops etc. etc. etc. .  ." is absurd.

The July coup was NOT a Fulani coup, as I stated above, just as the the January coup was NOT an Igbo coup and the Orkar coup was NOT a Middle Belt & South coup. All three were rebellions by the Nigerian military against governments. Similarly, the Nigerian military was not Fulani or even Fulani led.

In fact, the Middle Belter that they installed as head of state after the coup (Gowon) freed the Tivs from the Fulanis that the British had imposed on them - an agenda which had only been taken seriously by Awolowo (apart from the actual Middle Belters themselves) in Nigeria prior to the coup. If it were a Fulani military, they would have blocked the decision to divide the North in exactly such a way as to excise the Middle Belt from the North.

The bolded is very funny because the whole of Nigeria has already  been "eating French poo"(not sniffing it)  since the July coup of 1966, and will DEFINITELY continue eating it long after Igbo is gone.

I see how you would interpret it like that, but it cannot be denied that a Vietnamese, even as different as they are from the Chinese, have much more in common with a Chinese than a French person, yet they would rather suffer under control from the French for some decades than tolerate close rule from the Chinese for eons. If the meaning of this is somehow lost on you let me spell it out to make it more explicit.

The [Southern minority group/Vietnamese] would rather be under distant Fulani rule for decades than [Majority group/Chinese] rule for eons. Apply this same analogy to every other minority and majority group you can think of.

There is no strong desire from any minorities anywhere to revert back to the system/arrangement/distortion that the British created. That shouldn't be so hard to understand.

As I said earlier, any minority group dumb enough to ask any majority group for a union at the first sign or even perception of trouble doesn't even deserve their political freedom, but, anyways, I think deep down you know that there is no minority group in the former eastern region that is canvassing for the resurrection of the former eastern region. The reality you will one day have to come to terms with is that the distortion the British created is not desired by or acceptable to the majority of people. Those who may want to align with majority groups for reasons having nothing to do with an absurd worry about far away Fulanis or some non-extant rules of political disintegration may do so, but only through a joint negotiation between their peoples' legitimate leaders or representatives and those of the majority group.

dmainboss:
^^^You probably live in Lagos and know nothing of Nigeria. Donald Duke is the most visionary governor Nigeria has ever produced since Independence. If you dont know that, its your bad. That the present governor is farking it up is not his business. He has done his part. Calabar is about the most lovely place in Nigeria. Lagos is shyte were calabar is

What did anything I posted have to with Lagos?!

Lagos is not relevant to this thread and neither is Calabar.

PDP politicians decamping to ACN in Edo state has nothing to do with the fact that the response given (praying for a good governor for the state) was neutral and you're just spewing nonsense.

There's nothing to suggest even one person in the Benin palace is a member of ACN or inclined to ACN and there was no statement given in the OP's post to suggest support for ACN.

I think Beaf was referring to using lots of microgrids.