₦airaland Forum

To the best of my knowledge (though I stand to be corrected) Eritrea has historically been separate from "Ethiopia" despite their common origin and the attempt to bring Eritrea into Ethiopia for sea access was similar to the internal colonization that resulted in the Oromo being part of Ethiopia despite their opposition- except that it was unsuccessful.

jaygetta:
Lol@Udezue: funny how the wolves get strong only when they are in a pack. U really think "there is nothing in the present to boast about?".lol. U want to wager a bet? Like u and your fzcuk buddy up there (Beaf): Native Village my left nuts. I was born outside Nigeria, so were my Parents maybe that's why unlike u animals  I'm not blind to faults based on "tribal affiliation" alone and would like to see fair amongst all. You "know" your Native Village, why aren't you there now? Freaking goats, when someone does not agree to their position, automatically he's an enemy. Why don't you disprove my position? Show that I was wrong! Shocking that the moment I brought proof the next thing was insults and lies . You and your boyfriend accused me falsely, once I proved you wrong: oh, we have to start a fight to divert issues. The same deceptive nature of Nigerians that will ensure that it never rises. A nation filled up with the most deceitful and hypocritic charlatans ever known to mankind. Oloshi, na only Igbanke dey Edo, na Igbekere u go see next! Asi ere, gbogbo nkan o ni nkan ni o maan wun yin! Awon omo ole jati jati! If I had agreed that Edo would go to Biafra instead of the West, oh, I would have been their best friend. Now, I chose a contrary position, the ogbunigwes are getting planted! My position is my position, just like I prove that: You, Mr.Biafra (contrary to what you tried to propogate) KNOW JACKSHIET ABOUT THE EDOS! While also proving that you fake "we be Mr.Mid-Westerners/proper Bendelites" a.k.a Pipeline Bomber a.k.a Gej's offical dieeck licka also, to your consternation know nothing about the EDOS. But you've proven to also not know what an oaf Gej is, so, I guess no surprises there.

You were thoroughly refuted and said most Hausa-Fulanis some people see are really Edos, based no doubt on a tour of a few places in north Edo state.

If there is anyone who proved they know nothing about the Edos it is you, and on multiple different issues (religion, population, names).

jaygetta:
@Udezue: How dem take dash u visa come this country sef, abi na Mexico you pass? Oti e le je wi pe pali oni pali ni were yi fi wo ilu yi sef! Guy, I could care less about the Edos; goodluck trying to dump me into a group. Na only fail u go fail! Mumu! Same way some fools accused me of being Igbo because I supported Eastern Presidency and their right to form their own country. You guys are illiterate; no dull urself say because u sabi read and write. Make we no divert subject: YOU ACCUSED ME OF SAYING SOMETHING----PROVE IT!!!! Same goes for your boyfriend. Oh, and meanwhile, you still haven't disproved the link!!!

You clearly meant to say "I couldn't care less about the Edos" based on the context here.

Grammar 101 from instructor PhysicsQED:

"could care less" means you do care some

"couldn't care less" means you care very little

A common mistake. However one wonders why you were hellbent on asserting that Edo state would choose to go with Yorubas, even going so far as distorting reality to do so since they don't matter to you. Quite surprising behavior from a non-Yoruba (someone who claims allegiance to no tribe) who is supposedly indifferent about this group. I acknowledge that you only brought it up after suggestions about the state the Edos would form being in confederation with Biafra or suggestions from supposed future Biafrans that no group would go with the Yorubas, but the lengths of distortion you went to try to use the Edos for  your argument despite not caring about the Edos suggests a kind of use-exploit-and-dump mentality reminiscent of the defunct Western region government of Nigeria towards its non-Yoruba inhabitants. Sounds kind of un-neutral.

I can't say definitively who Edos would chose to go with but a Bendel minus Ijaw and Igbo parts that want to leave seems like the probable course if Nigeria were to split. The last thing we need are raging fools both inside and outside the borders bitching to us about groups we could easily do without.

I think the thread has been sufficiently derailed. Perhaps you should bow out now before the hole you've dug yourself gets deeper.

Respect to the Nigerian military for what they did in Liberia and Sierra Leone, but I don't see how a country with no military research, and with no gun, fighter jet, tank, or other advanced weaponry production capability can be called top notch with the standards set by other countries around the world.


Of course, I stand to be corrected and will be pleasantly surprised to hear otherwise (regarding weaponry and military research)

Good. The important thing now is the return of this and other artifacts.

jaygetta:
@Dayokanu: I don't claim that there's a Muslim majority in Edo state;

Funny. You said a slight Muslim majority earlier and thought that informed people would just let such a gross misrepresentation slide. Now you are completely reversing course.

However, what I stated was that there was a VERY high Muslim population amongst the Edos.

What is your definition of "very high"? Not even up to 8%?

Most of the ones u think are Christians are actually Muslims, or were born Muslims but converted: among the Edos this is not cause for a heart attack! A lot of them assumed english names because they felt it was fashionable at the time. . .then as they started having their kids, they also christened them with english names.

This is laughable. These mass conversions were apparently invisible, since no one seems to have any record of them. If you want to know the truth, the areas where Nupes raided in North Edo state did not even immediately adopt Islam en masse, but actually converted from traditional beliefs to Islam much later when some of their traditional rulers promoted Islam. If there were any were significant conversions in some places in Edo north, it was to Islam, not away from it.


Nobody is having a heart attack over being called Muslim. But reality and fiction need to be separate.

There's hardly an Edo that has an English name that doesn't have a Muslim name (which is REALLY his/her FIRST NAME).

Why do you throw around conjecture when you claim to be an authority on a place you have never lived in? Do you conduct actual surveys of Edos with English names to determine their religious leanings?

You have fantastically conflated Auchi, Agbede, Ibie, and a few other places with the whole of Edo state.

Apart from the Binis and (maybe a slight majority of the Ishans) most of Edo state is largely muslim.

Why all these "maybe"s? I thought you were an authority? Esan are not slight majority Christian, but large majority Christian.

Don't get it twisted! From Ayua,Ora, Fuga, Agenegbode, Uromi all the way to Auchi, Afuze,Afemai, Akoko-Edo,Irua etc ARE MAINLY MUSLIM.

Agenebode is mostly Christian,

Uromi is mostly Christian.

Ora is mostly Christian.

Akoko-Edo is significantly Muslim.

Auchi is mostly Muslim.

Anyways sha @, my point still remains that there's an almost equal amount of Muslims/Christians among the Edos

Uhhh, no. Please deal in facts.

and they have learnt to co-habitate with each other, devoid of religion-related problems, for eons.

"eons"? Why all the exaggeration? Anyways, it would be ludicrous for an Etsako Muslim and an Etsako Christian to start conflicts over religion when they have something much stronger that bonds them. Many religious conflicts in Nigeria are actually ethno-religious or sectionalist rather than outright religious so there's nothing particularly amazing about the peace between Yoruba Muslims and Yoruba Christians or Etsako Muslims and Etsako Christians.

It is not unusual to see an Edo family where the father is Christian, the mother is muslim, and the kids are split btwn both faiths!

No that is not unusual. It's silly how you translated that into saying that a state had a slight Muslim majority.

That's why I said they share at least that attribute (among others) with the Yorubas and will be more comfortable going with them in a future seperate Nigeria.

Kind of a strange argument. But I don't think Muslims would necessarily be marginalized by being in an overwhelmingly Christian country. After all, the ones currently in Edo state, a majority non-Muslim state aren't marginalized or discriminated against.

Let me tell you how crazy it is, a lot of "Hausa/Fulani" u see are actually Edo! You'll see them with the Hausa tribal marks, Muslim name, and they speak Hausa---then u'll think they are Hausas: that's how wonderfully diverse they are. People that don't know, when they hear "Edo", only think of the Binis or Ishans. . . . Infact, check this link I just happened out:http:// www.edo-nation.net/edotribe.htm

Show me some pics of Edos with Hausa tribal marks from every area of Edo state that you claim is actually Muslim.

And that link you referred to only supports the idea that most Edo are not Muslim, since most of the groups listed therein are not majority Muslim.



But let me give you a more relevant link:

http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/refworld/rwmain?page=search&docid=45f1478428&skip=0&query=etsako

"Edo state, located in the south of Nigeria (Nigeria 2002), is predominantly Christian (CSIS Mar. 2002, 1; Nigeria June 2005, 26); however, approximately six per cent of the population is Muslim, with a "relatively high" number of Muslims located in Etsako Central, East, and West, Owan East and Akoko-Edo (ibid.)."

Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). March 2002. John Paden. "Islam and Democratic Federalism in Nigeria." <http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/anotes_0203.pdf> [Accessed 9 Mar. 2006]

Nigeria. June 2005. Edo State. "Economic Empowerment and Development Strategy." <http://www.edostateofnigeria.net/seedsdocument.pdf> [Accessed 9 Mar. 2006]


Confirming exactly what myself and other posters had worked out earlier in this thread with our 5% to 7% estimates. Funny, if the overwhelming majority of Etsako were Muslim we would see a figure closer to 12% and if more than half of Edo state were Muslim we would see a figure greater than 50%.

Next time you visit Edo state, go beyond Auchi, buddy.

Please cease and desist henceforth.

If Edo state population is about 4 million (it might be less, I think the population of Edos outside of Edo state would put it at well over 4 million though)

And Etsako ( ~ 500,000) are almost all Muslim like jaygetta was insisting, it would be 12.5%, but like I said, the ratio of Etsako Christian vs. Muslim is more balanced than what jaygetta was asserting, so we could say, maybe 6 or 7%. Beaf's 5% estimate is probably the reality.

jaygetta:
@PhysicsEd:Haahahahahahahhahahhahaha!ROFLMAO. E be like say u don dey crase! Again, I ask u: I SOUND LIKE PERSON WEY NEED TUTORIAL ON EDO/ETSAKO?! Bobo yi ti ya were, sha! Cuzzo, I'm no talking suppositions, I'm speaking AUTHORITATIVELY!

What authority? You take official surveys? Census man?

You didn't even know the population of Etsako relative to the population of Edo state (Etsako are slightly more than 500,000) and were ignorant of the large Christian population among them. Doesn't sound authoritative to me. If you are Etsako, then good, but familiarize yourself with the rest of the state beyond your village, where I'm sure you're a village authority of some sort.

dayokanu:
I dont think Edo state has more Moslems.

All their governors and even deputies are all xtians. this cant happen in a State thats even 50-50 like most Yoruba states

In terms of proportion of Muslims, I think Edo state has a higher percentage than other non-Yoruba groups in southern Nigeria.

I think only 30% or so of Yorubas are Muslims, though (although that's still a high percentage). I could be wrong on that however.


The southern part of Edo state was to some extent dominating the politics of the state, before the landmark Oshiomhole administration, so there could never even have been a chance for governors or deputies to even be Muslim. But even if politicians had been coming from the northern part, the governors and deputies could easily still have been Christian.

Oh okay. I guess I misinterpreted your post then.

jaygetta: @PhysicsEd: l'enu e naa?! Lol@ Etsako being 50% Muslim. You think say throwing in that unnecessary bit about 'Nupe warriors' converting Edos to Islam would in anyway sway my decision or make me suddenly assume that you know what You are talking about? Ol boi, go siddon for corner! U no sabi wetin you dey talk. Mr Man,a lot of Etsako Muslims have English first names;Still doesn't change their religion. If you no know use google, read more or ask person wey know. Let's even assume say na you right (which u sure aint) and Etsako was split 50/50 btwn Christians and Muslims, doesn't this assert my position that we share more in common with the Yoruba with regards that majority of the time believers in both faiths live peacefully regardless of belief? I rest my case!

You have no real case to make. You claimed a slight majority of the population of Edo state was Muslim because there is a large Etsako Muslim population. Are you or were you ever under the delusion that Etsako are anywhere near up to 50%  of the population of Edo state? I just don't see how one can claim a slight majority Muslim population for Edo state without being in complete ignorance of the state or having never been there.

Is Adams Aliyu Oshiomhole a Muslim because his middle name is worn by Muslims? No. He's a Catholic. Is Dele Momodu a Muslim because his last name (Momodu = Muhammad) is worn by Muslims? No. He's a Christian. I wouldn't be naive enough to assume somebody had to have a Muslim name to be a Muslim or lack a Muslim name to be a Christian. Don't prop up arguments I never made.

Are you or were you ever under the delusion that Auchi, Agbede and a few other cities alone constitute Etsako land? I'll say it again, it's extremely doubtful whether the majority of Etsako are Muslim. There are probably as many Christians as Muslims-possibly slightly more. Take it or leave it. I know far too many in real life from different places to just buy this story of them being mostly Muslims.

If you want to argue that Edo state has more Muslims than other non-Yoruba Southern Nigerian groups, that's not in dispute and I didn't contest that. If you want to argue that there are significant cultural similarities between Yorubas and Edo groups, I also didn't contest that. Much of the rest of your post seemed like misinformation, however.

eldee:
That's where common sense comes in . . . there is self defense/war and there are massacres.
Even British law takes the amount of strength on each side into consideration in murder cases and wars have war crimes.

Yes, but had Benin ever attacked any group of visiting Europeans prior to that?

Do "delegations" of political representatives coming to argue for the respecting of treaties or for trade agreements number over 200 people?

Do large "delegations" of 200+, when repeatedly told to turn back and come back later or delay for a few days so that accommodation for visitation could be made, refuse and insist and defiantly push into a country? Does British common sense and law or any other say that this is acceptable protocol for a political delegation? Just asking.

The Benin leaders employed common sense here and the letters showing the true intentions of the British showed that the very reasonable interpretation of the Benin leadership was right on the money.

It was only a "massacre" because James Phillips thought he and his other officers would only have to get into the palace, pull out their revolvers and depose the Oba by force and replace him with a warrant chief who agreed to kowtow to the British. The British party that was ambushed was still not a friendly or non-hostile group.

Great man. Sad to see him frustrated by Nigeria like this.

koruji:
@PhysicsQED
Nice write-up. Africa in general suffers from our unwritten ancient history. We relied on memory to pass on our history, but that process only required one major upheaval to be totally disrupted. We need to reestablish broad developments on the continent over millenia and centuries before we can even begin to sort out the whoof who of events that may only take years. As you rightly pointed out the proponents of the Benin origin of Yoruba would like to play history in reverse by suggesting the Yoruba empire was younger than Benin. What I found really incredible about the story of Ekaladerhan being Oduduwa is the almost impossible compression of events that would require at least half a century into a few years.

As for the OP & his Tipsy supporter on this thread I am afraid they are not interested in any real discussion.

Hmmm. Thanks, but I'm not sure that you completely understood my post. The story of "Benin origin of Yoruba" seems like a distortion and misrepresentation of the story that Oba Erediauwa advocated.

honeric01:
I would like to know which of these 2 main kingdoms (talking of the main Yoruba kingdom at that time and the Bini kingdom) is the oldest?

I would say Ife. There is supposed to be archeological evidence of very early pavements and pottery there which I think is earlier than Benin. I'll need to search for the original source/article of the info though. That is however just habitation. The real question might also be, which one existed as a centralized state first, which is more uncertain because the Ogisos, whether there were only 300 years of Ogisos or an even longer reign of Ogisos before the late 12th century when the Eweka dynasty started, have been confirmed by Esan and Urhobos as the previous Benin rulers. Furthermore a process of building defensive earthworks that would later continue under Benin started around the northern Bini area and the southern Esan area quite early (700 AD) but this does not prove conclusively Benin's existence as a centralized state at that time, although it supports it. Ife as a centralized state can probably be proven to be earlier with archeology though. I'll look around and see what I can find.

mukina2:
OK . .the thread is back up

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-574916.0.html

Thanks. Glad to see it back up.

I've calmed down. I definitely shouldn't dwell on it as it still just nairaland. Peace, and let's move on.

Yeah. The Lagos monarchy is supposed to be descended from a Benin prince. I would have liked to see the arguments that those who were for the more extreme cases of "this group fathered or founded that group" could have mustered. A thread like the deleted one may pop up later, but I don't feel I would start the thread because I'm not for any extreme case so my position probably wouldn't spark a real discussion with debating sides, but rather it would just be one of many of those 1 or 2 post threads with a long streak of information that are viewed by less than 50 nairalanders and quickly fade into obscurity and off the first few pages of the politics section.

If Nigeria were to split, Ijaw will definitely have their own nation. On the map it'll have a strange shape, given the coastal, thin spread of the non-Baylesa Ijaw groups, but it's pretty much unstoppable. Not after this much ethnic nationalism and not with the clear viability of such a state.

Could someone pinpoint exactly which Rivers Igbo groups are supposed to be next to the sea? That "True extent of Igboland thread" was important in showing just how many groups are Igbo, whether they admit it or not, but it was rather vague on which group it is that is at the sea. I'm asking out of curiosity.

Sea access is not really essential, anyways, just an advantage. Over the long term, groups that do not build strong, diverse economies will not be saved merely by having ports to export the little that their weak economies might produce and landlocked groups which have no sea ports will still thrive if they have the ability to build a strong economy through other means and if they can make all of their immediate neighbors look to them for resources, products, or services. This is just my hypothesis anyway.

LMAO. People are talking about cities and not splitting ethnic groups and somebody comes in with talk of oil just oozing out of their parasitic mouth. Funny.

Ileke-IdI:
This thread needs to be deleted. It has no source, it contradicts history, and has a tribalism motive.
Summary: NO FACTS, An insult to history

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-574916.0.html

What the hell? So this is what happened to the "Oduduwa was a fugitive Bini prince thread." There were not even significant tribalist insults in that thread, just one poster saying the phrase "Bini is superior to Yoruba" three times. Furthermore, the thread was originally just asking if Binis consider themselves Yoruba politically-- a nonsensical question, but one that doesn't warrant a deletion. Moreover, its supposed "contradictions of history" or lack of "source" can be debated and argued by nairalanders. Multiple things remain on this board that supposedly "contradict history" or lack a source, but still remain.

You could have just asked for the topic to be locked or something or moved to the racism and tribalism section! You were too lazy to read through the thread and just saw omongbati's username and responded blindly, otherwise you would have seen that I clearly refuted omongbati's original assertion (that Yoruba is an offshoot of Bini or that Bini founded Yoruba monarchies) and Katsumoto even confirmed my point with another fact and numerous facts were brought by me to inform people on what the contradictions and problems were in the Egharevba versions that are supposedly acceptable history and to explain what Oba Erediauwa was really trying to explain to people. After the actual facts started appearing, omongbati didn't bother much about the thread anymore and from there it would have gone on to be a reasonable discussion by people who were interested in history for reasons other than supposed tribal supremacy.


I can't believe somebody just acceded to your ill-informed wish and stopped a possible good debate without actually reading the thread. Truly unbelievable.

If there is anyway to bring that topic back, mods please do so immediately.

This is just so damn blind and unwarranted. There are multiple threads on this board that start out with the intention of attacking a specific person because of tribal motivations that do not get deleted. At worst they get moved to the tribalism section, but not usually.They often remain where they are and good debates or ignorant mudslinging come afterward, but nobody loses an arm or a leg because of the insults thrown or the reasonable discussions that follow.

In Egharevba's original version, he even claims that Ogisos were founded when Oduduwa sent one of his sons to found Benin.

In reality, Binis had defensive earthworks in place and being built long before the Eweka dynasty came about in the late 12th century AD, contradicting the idea that no centers of power or rulers existed before Oduduwa sent the founder of the Eweka dynasty to Benin. More problematic still, the Urhobos, and Esan had numerous oral stories about the Ogisos and the Ogisos figure prominently in long established Urhobo oral stories (see Peter Ekeh's writings on the subject) even though the Urhobos and Binis had diverged from one another long before the Eweka dynasty. This suggests that the Ogisos could not have come about as a result of the new Oduduwa-born dynasty contrary to the claims in the first version of Egharevba's story.

Egharevba's first (unrevised) story is implausible and counterfactual. So one cannot build castles of "who born who" claims upon that first story.

The revised story claims a Sudan connection and another one involves an Egyptian connection, so one cannot build "who born who" claims upon that story.

I hope some of the confusion can cease here and some of the unsupported assertions on either side, Bini or Yoruba, can cease. Each person can believe what they want, but the point is to let those who believe Egharevba's story know the contradictions to reality in the original version or the unprovable assumptions about Nubian/Sudanese or Egyptian princes in the revised versions to which they are agreeing with and giving their assent, whichever version they believe. I don't believe either of Egharevba's versions, but I also don't assert that Bini founded Yoruba monarchies or anything like that.

Oba Erediauwa's version puts forward a better argument, yet the reality is that Oba Erediauwa also isn't actually claiming that Oduduwa founded Yoruba monarchies, but that Yoruba kings had already been existing in multiple communities and he is even pointing out that there were even kings in Ife prior to Oduduwa (which, if one rejects, suggests that Ife monarchy and civilization is younger than Benin, which nobody would agree with).

Egharevba's original version is inaccurate and implausible on critical points and his final version is actually against the idea of "Yoruba fathered Benin" that some have been trying to make it into.

The version which Oba Erediauwa has recently advocated is clearly against the idea that "Benin fathered Yoruba" but some have been trying to make it into that.

I hope people can see that whatever they wish to believe, they should read and analyze, in detail, the arguments of either side and not reduce them to simple this one fathered that one arguments as has been happening for a while now.

Yoruba cannot be an "offshoot" of Benin though. I don't believe that is what people are really trying to say. It's really all about the monarchies. Edos and Yoruba and Igbo and other groups were all previously part of one large group before the split anyways.

Jacob Egharevba, the main source of the idea that the Eweka dynasty had its origins in Ife, was of partially Yoruba descent (part Edo-Akure) and his mentors were Yorubas historians and that is why his attempt to link Benin and Ife in the particular manner he did is viewed with skepticism by some other Binis. Not to say his idea was some extremely unreasonable one, but his actual idea has also been used and misinterpreted and even completely distorted by some to play a game of "who born who" which could actually not even apply based on the version of the story Egharevba gave.

Egharevba came up with multiple versions of how the post-Ogiso Benin dynasty started, however the one thing he stuck by in his final versions was that Oduduwa came from the Sudan to found Ife and then one of his descendants was called to Benin. In some of the earlier versions he is from Egypt, but a later one claims Sudan. The basic idea though is that he is from somewhere which already had higher "civilization" (Nubia/Sudan or Egypt). So basically Oduduwa might be called by a Yoruba name by Yorubas, and the Binis have their own name based on their belief of who he was (a banished prince), but Egharevba, the architect of this idea that Oduduwa started the post-Ogiso Benin dynasty, had actually claimed that he was neither Yoruba or Bini, but from somewhere else  to the East. This important detail is usually lost on those who want to play "who born who" games.

Basically the claim of Egharevba is something like that the Obas of Benin and Yorubaland are descendants of some Nubian/Sudan prince. I think it's pretty easy to see where black nationalist pride in Nubia or "black" Egypt and a desire to associate West African civilizations with these civilizations played a role in him forming his theories. My main point though is that if you believe Egharevba's claim over Oba Erediauwa's claim, you also believe that Ife was not founded by a Yoruba man or a Bini man, but by a black African from an already established civilization to the East, so you can't even play the game of "who fathered who." I should also point out that part of Egharevba's claim is surprisingly logical and even possible (despite Egharevba's lack of rigor and his tendency to constantly change and revise things), since a prince from a more technologically advanced civilization could easily come in and be seen as a powerful figure and be able to become king of innocent and undeveloped groups. The version of history advocated by Oba Erediauwa makes no appeals to chance migrations of princes from the Sudan however but from what is known about local (Nigerian) cities, towns, and kingdoms.

(I should also point out that the tale of Oduduwa being a banished Bini prince did NOT originate from Oba Erediauwa. The Oba was just bringing people's attention to something that had been published over half a century ago and had been an oral story long before that and pointing out the glaring contradictions between Egharevba's original and revised version and known Yoruba history. One CANNOT accept Egharevba's unrevised, or even his revised version, unless one distorts already known Yoruba history written by Yorubas and makes the youngest son Oranyan/Oranmiyan into the oldest son and makes Ife not have had rulers before Oduduwa, making Ife actually much younger than Benin which had had Ogisos for hundreds of years.)

(edited slightly)

buzugee:
who  the heck do you think is going to read all the 'thesis' that you regurgitated up there ?

Thesis? Dumbass, I've casually written much longer papers in minutes for simple high school reports and assignments. Did you even graduate high school? Or did you go straight into scamming from the cradle?

i got short attention span fool.

Of course you do. You also have an extremely tiny brain.

i aint finna read all dat mess you vomitted up there mayne

"Mayne"? This coming from a revolutionary. You're just so dumb it's unbelievable.


 

  you must be out your rabid midget mind if you think am finna spend my xmas reading the rants of a deranged blow-hard

I'm educating you, baboon. I accept your thanks, baboon. It's better than spending your Christmas composing Christmas email scams to steal charity money from unsuspecting Brits like you usually do.

and try not to choke on the xmas turkey cuz it takes braincells to chew properly.

Try not to slip on your own shit when next you start slinging it around, you monkey.

And merry Xmas,  knuckle dragging prehistoric curmudgeon

Happy holidays, buzugee the baboon revolutionary.

It's good that when soundly thrashed with facts and confronted with reality, you just degenerate into insults and don't try to argue blindly. Wouldn't want you to try to tax the little brainpower a monkey like you can muster.

The Oduduwa thing is about royal dynasties, not what group was formed. A proto Yoruba/Igala group was around long before Oduduwa and a proto Bini/Esan/Etsako/Urhobo group was around long before Oduduwa.

jaygetta: Adams Oshiomole, Dele Momodu,Seyi Olomu and co are from where? Take a wild guess. . .

There are Yorubas with Oshiomole, Momodu, and Olomu as last names?? (This is a serious question, not rhetorical)

Then as per the Christianity issue. . . Edo state has a very high (if not slight majority) Muslim population. Murtala Ramat Mohammed was an Etsako man, u know?

Are you on crack? Yes there are Muslims where the Nupe raids succeeded but even the Etsako population is not even wholly Muslim. It's doubtful even if more than 50% of Etsako are Muslim even after the Nupe raids. You must not know too many in real life.

To say Edo state has a majority or slight majority Muslim population is pure ignorance.

And Murtala Mohammed was a Hausa-Fulani, maternal ancestry does not determine one's ethnicity in Africa, except for a few obscure locations.

but I tell You, whoever gets the Ijaws as part of its share is in for a very long, rough and frightening ride!

Why has it not occurred to you and the overwhelming majority of posters in this thread that the Ijaws have enough self-respect, many natural resources (not just oil, even!), sea access, and enough ethnic nationalism to form their own country??!! It's so obvious and staring one plainly in the face yet most in this thread are so delusional that they've ignored something so obvious just to pretend the Ijaws want or need their group.

What kind of question is this? How can a group consider themselves something they are clearly not. What a joke.


I should start a thread called, note for Ibibio, do you consider yourself Igbo politically and culturally. It will interesting to see the utter confusion and contempt they mete out when hit with such a nonsensical question.

Calm down. Fashola's good, I admit that, at least. There's no correlation between looks and governance, I was just trying to bring down the tone of hero worship I was sensing through humor.

Fat Houses.

RIP to both of them.

babapupa:
Christmas 2009


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He kind of looks like a turtle (Fashola). Is that look common amongst Lagosians?

Also the guy in the red on the left in the last picture reminds me of Fat Albert for some reason. Dude has an unfortunate body structure.

buzugee:
this dimwitted flatfooted Neanderthal midget is so full of hot steam its unbelievable. when britain embarked on the industrial and science revolution their was political and economic stability in britain. ok this is the foundation off of which you can build science and technology. if a countries priorities are screwed up no money is allocated to science and industry.

It is only an extremely idiotic subhuman waste of space like yourself that would assume that a politically stable regime was a necessity for citizens of a country to lay the foundations for scientific and industrial revolutions in their country.

British did not wait for government stability to embark on the industrial or scientific revolution you subhuman shitbrained son of scammers.

British foundation of their science revolution was the Royal Society, founded and taking off during periods of deep political instability, monarchic succession disputes, and great poverty and economic weakness. Its predecessor was meetings of scientists right before and during the English civil war!!!!


British independent scientists and inventors embarked on the industrial revolution. Not fu-cking government sponsored research institutions or individuals. Does your brainless backside  actually think government allocations towards invention spurred the Industrial Revolution or that alleged governmental and political stability created the economic demand that brought about the inventions and advances of the industrial revolution?

Tell me, Neanderthal emperor, does the invention of the steam engine in an era of religious intolerance and persecution, violent religious mobs, attempted assassinations of monarchs, the Jacobite uprisings, loss of American colonies, the later looming threat of invasion by a Napoleon at the height of his power which even forced money to be channeled only into the non-research war effort, just come about magically because of supposed stability?


Tell me Neanderthal Augustus, when did government allocate money to Jethro Tull to bring about the agricultural breakthroughs in England?

What was allocated to Andrew Meikle, dwarf Neanderthal professor?

To Robert Bakewell?

Tell me, baboon fieldmarshal of all revolutionary baboons, what was allocated to Dutch agricultural scientists who introduced their technology to Britain?

Tell me, oaf of all oafs, El Oaf Campeador, what money was allocated to James Watt, Michael Faraday, Charles Wheatstone, William Murdoch,Thomas Newcomen, BEFORE they embarked on their revolutionary innovations?

Tell me Orangutan Caesar, what was the supposed stability William Gilbert, William Harvey, John Napier, Francis Bacon, and others experienced when their governments were switching faster than lightning and assassination plots, religious mobs, illiteracy, and peasantry were abundant?


The bases for the original industrial and agricultural revolution are varied, but the most significant thing was demand. The demand for food and textiles, amongst other things, by a gradually growing population, for technology to make food production and manufacturing easier, was the major cause of these revolutions, not some British choice to embark on innovation because of their unstable standoff between absolutist monarchs and an increasingly powerful parliament and ever changing and whimsical monarchical governments or the LACK of economic prosperity amongst the majority of the population.



Now if technology can be developed to meet that demand, then it will be developed. Talk of government stability being the real cause of scientists or inventors meeting the need of societal demand or the continuation of prior intellectual exploration is daft. There's always money and progress to be made, you dunce.

all the corruption needs to be cut out, nationalism has to develp and the budget allocated with special priority to research and science.

What utter stupidity. More and more unfounded assumptions.

This captures reality better:

"You know what the fellow said – in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace – and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."- Orson Welles

If there are no scientists and innovators but enormous political stability, a country will be no different from several Middle Eastern countries, stable politically, mostly provident for its citizenry with oil money, but with NO SIGNIFICANT POWER, and going nowhere technologically and hence irrelevant to what I said about bringing science to bear in Africa to ensure that in the future Africa is not the exploited slave of some external power and not dependent on the West for everything.


Science and technology thrived in France during every part of the upheavals prior to the overthrow and restorations of the Bourbons and before and after the French Revolution and during and after the Napoleonic era and before and during and after the illegitimate authoritarian rule of self-proclaimed emperor Napoleon III which culminated in a French thrashing in 1870 through his silly military adventurism.


Science took off in China well before the Communists beat the Nationalists, well before the Warlord Era was at a close and this laid the foundation for the success they are enjoying today, with regards to modern technology.

The Science Society of China, the Academia Sinica, the sponsoring by families of Chinese students to acquire Western scientific expertise, the Tsinghua University, the establishment of multiple Chinese research institutions, all occurred during periods of  EXTREME political and economic uncertainty, poverty, and governmental instability, not after the authoritarian Communists beat the corrupt authoritarian Nationalists or the corrupt authoritarian Nationalists beat the Warlords.

But your idiotic self would suggest that they waited until the economic and political stability of post-1949 to lay the foundation for their later success!!! Ironically the anti-intellectual, anti-science, anti- industry disastrous Cultural Revolution of China, which closed universities, arrested scientists, and stifled theory and rational thought, was launched after political stability had finally been attained!!

Even funnier, you mention nationalism yet you're the degenerate with so little respect for Nigerians that you advocate the transfer of African cultural treasures to European collectors and auction houses out of fear and self-loathing. This is pathetically ironic.

do you see that in nigeria today you silly flatfooted blow hard ? do you seriously think science and technology comes before economic and political stability ? you intellectual midget ? its like a hungry kid being expected to think beyond his basic needs. its not gonna happen. the kid has to be well fed before he can focus on other things but then again a nincompoop like you wouldn't know that now would you ?  Angry

Your brainless self actually said you don't need science and tech in Nigeria under the moronic assumption that science and technology just springs up under stability without individuals pursuing it and MAKING it relevant to the government so that the government can take an increased interest in and support further researches after the initial foundations are laid by innovators themselves. Like the dunce you are you just assumed government,and not private initiative, is the foundation and starting point (the "crawling" before "walking" for obtaining technical and scientific competence necessary for development, when all of history says completely differently, because of your welfare loser mindset.


What you still haven't grasped, is that in emerging from the developing stage to the developed stage, application of science and technology to development is crucial in ensuring that economic progress and standards of living are improved, so saying you don't need science and tech but then hoping arms can overthrow corrupt government  is equivalent to putting a government in power that is supposed to deliver on development with no relevant human capital!!


No means to reach the level of development which morons like you think magically comes about from good government; another third world South American banana republic, transplanted to Africa. Scientifically and technologically illiterate, and blaming their government for not being able to turn their immediate communities into anything more than  17th century societies with "futuristic" not understood trinkets sprinkled about imported from foreign intellectual overlords and with weak economic output incapable of supporting their excessive population.

An army of  intellectual revolutionaries cannot change a country from a consumer nation to a manufacturing or producing nation you cockroach, it cannot change a nation lagging behind the technologically developed world into one able to compete economically on the same level with countries that have agricultural scientists, industrial engineers, electrical engineers, computer scientists, manufacturing engineers, and the chemical engineers that make the plastics your scientifically illiterate revolutionary Nigerian backside will still import, and so much more. Has it not occurred to your brainless backside that the Nigerian government, corrupt or clean, holy or depraved, CANNOT somehow provide all employment, services, etc. that lead to the standard of life and widespread economic prosperity that would allow the support for science and technology that lead to a situation like America's, where massive tax money supports almost all significant science/technology research? So saying one needs to wait for governmental change, by revolutionaries or otherwise, is enormously daft. After change, you will still be a technological, scientific, nothing.

The onus is entirely on private individuals to take the first steps in making their country scientifically competent or developed, not the phantom hand of government.


Holy and anointed Neanderthal emperor, get your facts right, you will be economically owned and exploited and dependent and taking marching orders from your technological superiors in this your future where, being far too daft to engage in any long-term planning, your intellectuals wait for the perfect political climate to embark on acquiring knowledge, and your mates in Asia and the West whose individuals laid their foundations during warfare internal and external, during whimsical, rapidly changing governments, and widespread economic uncertainty and instability, will go on to construct the new economy, and you'll be right back to trying to order and "correctly" rule society before you even have the technical capacity to make anything out of it other than a banana republic.

It hasn't even occurred to your brainless backside that diversifying the economy so as to not be dependent on oil would even necessarily bring about a political reorientation and restructuring of this country that would destroy the current status quo, and that this diversified economy is directly dependent on mechanization of agriculture, development of manufacturing, and industrialization through private initiative!!!

what we need is blow-hards like you to pick up arms and go and liberate us from the present power structure. we dont need you in science just yet. can you do that ?

What are YOU doing to improve your country? Scamming, begging UK for welfare? What companies do you own? What companies, institutions, do you plan to start? What have you done to stop the local graft and bribery culture which is the actual reason your politicians are corrupt before and/or when they get elected?

You're just another welfare loser sitting around whining about the government ruining your life when you don't even have the competence to see if you can do anything about the electricity, the roads, the low manufacturing capacity, the lack of agricultural mechanization, the weak textile industry, and so much more despite being in a position to do so much more than those without the economic or educational resources and opportunities you were given.



What you have done except suggest that those that actually want to put their minds towards any real and tangible goals need to quit to launch some vague military revolution? You're a blowhard. I have immediate and future plans and the will to act on them. You have a history of scamming and conspiracy theory obsessions while sitting back to type bullshit about picking up arms.


And by the way, for the good of humanity, don't reproduce. We don't need anymore scammers or welfare dons in this world, and especially not as Nigerians.


And merry Christmas, dumbass.

A distinctive difference between the Fulani and other African people is that the Fulani have a huge respect for beauty.

What sort of nonsense is this?

One tradition is that when two boys reach coming of age, the two boys hit each other with their spears, not showing any pain but instead laughing. Many have died in these ceremonies, which are now against the law in many countries, but continue to be practiced.

I'm surprised such a tradition could come about. Seems bizarre. Is it a competition?