₦airaland Forum

Lol. . .@jerrymania,

jerrymania:
@ efuah and dafix

Thanks for your contributions.

Who supports?

It's not about anybody trying to "support" this or that! People are known to support crazy theories, even shait if it comes to that!

Anyhow, teasing apart. No, the black man is NOT cursed. What is the "curse" of the Black man as distinct from the white man's "curse". . . hmm?

Abeg, make una no make us laff this afternoon!

While we are on it, let me ask as well:

Have Black People Been "Fair" to Themselves?

hinduism:
Stop allowing the WEST to brainwash you Africa.

We're not talking "brainwash" at the moment - that's why we're seeking to understand what exactly makes a transaction legally "marriage". Is it the. . . . . . . (care to fill in the blanks?)

@mdsocks,

mdsocks:
pilgrim,

we don't hate christains ,please don't generalise.

I'm sorry that you guys leave me no alternative to make a bold statement as appears in my assertion. Until we see a move from MORE Muslims to curb the seething HATE among their Muslim brethren towards Jews and Christians, my post stands as is!

mdsocks:
I for one have many christains has friends and not in a day have we ever fought or argue about our differences.

It happens. I have also said earlier in another thread that I have quite a handle of Muslims as friends, besides those who are Hindus and free-thinkers. Yet, you will not find Christians on the majority seeking to call for such hatred and attacks on them as do the Muslims against Jews and Christians.

mdsocks:
If people claim that some part of the world hates another. , they have their own reasons for doing so,

And that is why I asked these questions:

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=31964.msg1853864#msg1853864 date=1200404896]@olabowale,

Can I also ask you this: WHY is it that just as Muhammad hated Jews and Christians, so Muslims today hate them so much that they would not let them be? WHAT exactly did Jews and Christians do to you Muslims that your heart is soaked with such HATE against them?[/quote]What "reason" would Muhammad and Muslims have for their seething HATE towards Jews and Christians that they won't simply let them be?

olabowale:
I humble myself in humility, as much as I can, right now, before my Creator.

Olabowale,

Humility requires that you do not speak derogatorily about other people's convictions. Is that a hard thing to understand?

olabowale:
The case of Abiola is closed and I as his brother in Islam

I wonder why you hurriedly closed that case just now. . . perhaps you feared that your own (lies) would be posted for all to see?

candyluvv:
i think you guys should see this website.im sure you will be glad you checked it out.x

Another money-making scheme? How does it relate with "TW" (traditional wedding)?

dafidixone:
In the Name of Jesus every knee must bow and every tongue confess,

Amen and Amen!! I truly believe that verse - because it has proven itself true in the 'other' side as well!

No worries - we all make slips here and there.

BUT - and a big "but" - there are NO MISTAKES in the prizes O! This is for real, people!

olabowale:
Finally, which one will you chose, if you have to chose one and not two?

If you had to choose between Muhammad and Jesus Christ, whom would you choose - and WHY?

@Blackcat,

Blackcat:
Don't forget that God placed lots of curses then below are a list of other curses that are still evident in our everyday life.

1. The curse of pain during child birth.

16To the woman He said,
         "I will greatly multiply
         Your pain in childbirth,
         In pain you will (Q)bring forth children;
         Yet your desire will be for your husband,
         And (R)he will rule over you." (Genesis 3:16)

2. Curse of man ruling over a woman.

16To the woman He said,
         "I will greatly multiply
         Your pain in childbirth,
         In pain you will (Q)bring forth children;
         Yet your desire will be for your husband,
         And (R)he will rule over you." (Genesis 3:16)

I'm sorry, but the verses you quoted do not imply any "curse" at all.

Many people have read the word "curse" into those verses by personal pretexts; but the Bible does not throw words carelessly about as we often do! Read the verses again, and you will see that they do not refer to curses - and so they could not have survived as "curses" through to this age!

In the Genesis 3 narratives, there was ONLY one being out of the characters mentioned there that was actually "cursed" - and that is this verse you quoted:

Blackcat:
4. Curse of the snake moving on its stomach:

The LORD God said to the serpent," [Deut 28:15-20] Because you have done this,Cursed are you more than all cattle,And more than every beast of the field;On your belly you will go,And [Is 65:25; Mic 7:17] dust you will eatAll the days of your life; (Genesis 3:14)

Please understand here that the implications of placing a curse on Adam and Eve would simply make God's promise of redemption in Genesis 3:15 INEFFECTIVE!! When the Redeemer was borne, He was said to have been born of "a woman" (Gal. 4:4), and there was no hint anywhere in Scripture that the Incarnation was a miracle out of a cursed being!!

Please try and grasp this understanding so you don't assume what is not in Scripture. To assume things that Scripture does not teach is to fall headlong into deeper fallacy and arrive at issues that deny the glorious redemption we have in Christ.

Shalom.

@olabowale,

olabowale:
By the way, the Arabs are not truly whites, based on the opinions of the 'fake Arian nation,' the European bloodlines.

I sympathize with you. That would also mean that Muhammad as an Arab was "not truly white" according to your submission. Whcih again would mean that his companions were wrong to have assumed that he was indeed a "white man", yes?

@olabowale,

Can I also ask you this: WHY is it that just as Muhammad hated Jews and Christians, so Muslims today hate them so much that they would not let them be? WHAT exactly did Jews and Christians do to you Muslims that your heart is soaked with such HATE against them?

People, . . . make una wait small. Perhaps we need to once again enunciate how a marriage is legalized.

@olabowale,

olabowale:
Am not a Christian, but please permit me to post this achillies heel of Bible Verses:

You're welcome to appreciate the Bible, even if you're not a Christian.

There is no "achillies heel" in the Bible; and perhaps that tone suggests that you are hell-bent to ALWAYS demonstrate your derision towards Christians! What have they done to you personally, olabowale?

olabowale:
From The Old Testament, Deut. 6 Verse 4. And from New Testament, Mar. 12 Verse 29. Both Verses are declaring that God Almight the Creator is One God. No two or three or godheads or godpersons or god personalities. JUST ONE GOD, period!

The Bible never mentions GODHEAD[b]S[/b] in the plural - and I have pointed this out to you AGAIN and AGAIN!

Do you care for a little sincerity, please?

@All,

As said earlier, I had hoped that the distinctions between the various components of man would have been discussed at length in this thread - Spirit, Soul and Body - What's The Difference?.

So, Bobbyaf, noetic, olabowale. . . any luck of seeing you guys here with seasoned entries?

dafidixone:
Just to remind all that answers to this Month (January 2007) will not be considered after the deadline. Good luck to you all.

Lol. . . That should be January 2008 - this year O! 

Enjoy, everyone!

- - - -

_{@dafidixone, seen your email - will respond soonest!}

@brownbonno,

brownbonno:
If the Holy Bible is the only point of reference that means 99% of Nigerians will never go to heaven.What then happen to rest of our muslim,jews etc.
Please wake up

Lol. . . okay, we have woken up - to ask just one question:

What is YOUR point of reference, then?

olabowale:
Whats Dlab Dwale? Thats from the Bible, because aint nothing like that in the Qur'an.

But you know that's not from the Bible, and you should try and drop your seething hatred for the Bible. Haba! People make mistakes in spelling the userIDs of others - and you have also made such mistakes. This is not an issue that should make you want to blame every misconception you have on "the Bible!"

olabowale:
I am enjoying yor follies, but waiting to read your Phantom of the Opera, of the 'stolen page!'

A request again, sir:

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=105773.msg1853766#msg1853766 date=1200403131]@olabowale,

Please bear with me, but would you be interested in carefully walking through the texts in the Qur'an where Muhammad tried to re-arrange Biblical narratives, such that they neither made sense or sounded coherent to his companions? Just discussions with pointed questions would do; and not long winding stories from you.

Cheers.[/quote]

olabowale:
@Defidixone: You were there when Abiola (ra) died? You knew him well? You are a liar and you know it.

Lol. , alhaji olabowale - even you know that you do not tell the simple truth in many instances, don't you? How would you feel when you own false assertions are brought up to show that you qualify for the very same thing that you allege against others?

Should we post you a few examples, sir?

@olabowale,

Please bear with me, but would you be interested in carefully walking through the texts in the Qur'an where Muhammad tried to re-arrange Biblical narratives, such that they neither made sense or sounded coherent to his companions? Just discussions with pointed questions would do; and not long winding stories from you.

Cheers.

@topic,

There are indeed unseen diabolical forces that are set to derail people from their God-appointed blessings; and it does not matter whether or not such people are innocent and mind their own business.

Peter, for instance, did not do anything antagonistic to Satan; but unknown to him, the enemy was seeking the slightest opportunity to rubbish Peter in a huge way:

Luke 22:31
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold,
Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat.

You could imagine the shock that ran through Peter's spine on this discovery!

Yet, the following verse refreshed him as well as gave him confidence in the protection of Christ:

Luke 22:32
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not:
and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Even when we do not know it, the Lord is deeply interested in the affairs of our welfare - and His heavenly priestly work secures our protection like nothing else.

However, we are urged to be on the alert against the wiles of the enemy - and it is our responsibility to seek God's face until the problem is resolved. God is willing to bless - but until we betake ourselves in reality to the principles of His word, we only allow ourselves to be cheated through life by the enemy.

Encourage yourself in the Lord - no matter what they have set against "your friend", his sunshine hours are ahead of him.

dot2002:
His Grace, The Most Rev. Prof. Daddy Hezekiah (IOM, LFIBA, DO, DDG, NFNY, DHA, SPD, PHF)
Lion of The Tribe of Ibo
Anointed Prophet of the Most High God
Founder and Leader Living Christ Mission Inc.
Sanitize Living Churches through Suspension

Please be very careful about hero-worship.

@dafidixone,

dafidixone:
@Pilgrim

Please do help me thank God for the future of olabowale. He will not die except he become a Christian. Only God knows how He will do it but God did it for Apostle Paul.

Amen. I am already doing that!

@olabowale,

olabowale:
@Olrotimi: Is Jesus the Yardstick of being saved/born again?

Em. . . excuse me. Is Muhammad the yardstick of being saved/born again?

I am very sorry for those who ask silly questions as mirroring the unsettled hearts they have. If Muhammad is the yardstick of anything at all, certainly not the yardstick of those who are "saved". That being the case, I wonder why you try to bring up issues that Islam simply has no answers to. Please look closely into your Islam, and refrain from your incessant brigand disjointed work of trying to ridicule the faith of others, olabowale.

olabowale:
Is there a child who has more honor that his own mother? Do you know the power of the womb? Yet am not even a Christian.

One doesn't have to be a Muslim to understand the power of the womb, either. And yes, there are people who have more honour above their parents , depending on what your criteria is - go figure.

In all the honour that could be accorded Mary, we understand that ONLY Jesus is referred to as THE Messiah!! Does that alone not tell you something?

Again, Muhammad had a mother - he did not appear out of the bush. Let us ask you pointedly: Is Muhammad more honourable than his own mother - by your own arguement?

olabowale:
Catholics are Christians, so are the offshoots who collectively call themselves Protestants. Neither has more claim to Christendom than the other! Both claim that they are worshipping God through an invented religion known as Christianity. Both add something to their worship of God. Neither worship God only. The catholics add Mother mary. The protestants add Son Jesus! Both forgot how Jesus worshipped God Almighty, his Creator. Both this not realise that John the son of Zachariah and his father Zachariah, did not worship differently from how Jesus worshipped and no of them worshipped Jesu!

Thank you. Now dig this:

Islam is also riddled with more than 72 sects - all of them saying VERY different things. They may claim that they ALL worship only 'Allah', but worship is also ascribed by some of these Muslims to their Imams - that is why they hold the festival of flagellating and lacerating themselves! Besides that, we know how many Muslims seek divine powers and blessings from dead men in Islam - and I have pointed that out in the threads that dealt with the idolatry among Muslims.

Islam also is the "invented religion" of Muhammad who tried to divert all issues and funnel them down into Quraish culture. Today, many Muslims are realizing the fallacies they had embraced, and that is why they have thrashed every single phobia in Muhammad's threats and protests.

@rotimi,

rotimy:
The doctrine off being "born again" must have been very strange to the early Apostles! They were called Christians! They 19th century Evangelicals that coined the word from wrong interpretation of John 3:3

Thank you. All you needed to have done is give us the "correct" interpretation of John 3:3.

And before the 19 century, the term "born again" was actually known to the EARLY Apostles. Sample:

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible,
by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Peter was an apostle, and even he was not a stranger to the term "born again".

Please guys, I hope it is not so difficult a thing to ask that you look into your conscience and refrain from false assumptions.

nairamar:
“Really? You don’t look/talk like a Muslim o!”

. . .  Take a second to think about the title of this email,

Is this not another recycled topic? Can't we see something fresh from you guys? Haba!!

See:

You don't look like a muslim" for God sake how should a muslim look like ?

(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-20883.0.html#msg568435)

@olabowale,

Abraham was NOT a Muslim, please. Just because the Qur'an claims what Muhammad had no idea to authentic does not mean the Qur'an was right.

There are a lot of things associated with being a Muslim - nowhere did Abraham take any oath of the shahadah, nor did he need to. Besides, the claims of who the first Muslim was in the Qur'an are contradictory - and Muslims have not been able to unravel the contradictions thereto.

Please try not to use your Muslim ideas to assuage Christian or Jewish convictions. Muhammad had nothing to do with the revelations of the Bible - and we have demonstrated that FACT several times.

I also once asked you to please show us from the Bible where you supposed that either Abraham and Jesus were Muslims. Now I am adding to the list suhc prophets as:

~ David

~ Jeremiah

~ Isaiah

~ Ezekiel

~ Job

and a few others that will come up as we progress in this discussion. Please show where they ever were Muslims, and then we shall be on hand to show you what you miss.

Thanks.

@All,

Anyhow, I think that this is a timely discussion that shows up between seasons; and true, we cannot ignore it. I had hoped that the issue of distinguishing between the components of man would have been discussed at length in an appropriate thread - Spirit, Soul and Body - What's The Difference?. Bobbyaf, noetic, olabowale. . . any luck of seeing you guys there with seasoned entries?

@Bobbyaf,

D. The "spirit" of man was created WITHIN him

The "real" man himself that identifies as well as separates him from other creatures is his "spirit". This component of man is declared by the prophets to have been created within man - that is, it is that part that came from God and actually resides in the innermost part of man. As ricadelide has hinted earlier, this is what Paul referred to as the "inner man" (Rom. 7:22 and Eph. 3:16). This is not a new or isolated phenomenon; for besides Paul, other prophets have indeed referred to the "inner man" in various ways:

Job: Job 38:36
"Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts?
or who hath given understanding to the heart?"

David: Psalm 51:6
"Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts:
and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom"

Jeremiah - Jeremiah 31:33
"I will put my laws in their inward parts"

Peter: 1 Peter 3:4
". .let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that
which is not corruptible, even the ornament of
a meek and quiet spirit"

Paul again refers to the "the inward man which is renewed day by day (2 Cor. 4:16). All these are various ways of expressing the very same thing, that the "spirit" of man is the innermost component from where he is himself granted the capability to grasp spiritual matters in the things of God.

Let's see a few verses to the point that the "spirit" was created within man, and not just a matter of "breath" passing through our nostrils:

Job 32:8 & 18
But there is a spirit IN man: and the inspiration of
the Almighty giveth them understanding. . . For I am
full of matter, the spirit WITHIN me constraineth me.

Zechariah 12:1
The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD,
which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation
of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man WITHIN him.

1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man,
save the spirit of man which is IN him?
even so the things of God knoweth no man,
but the Spirit of God.

Now, please understand from the verses above, that:

[list][li]the "spirit" of man within him is conected with receiving inspiration from God - which is not the function of "breath" (Job 32:8)[/li][/list]

[list][li]the "spirit" of man within him "constrains" him - which is not what the "breath" in man would do (Job 32:18)[/li][/list]

[list][li] the "spirit of man which is IN him" has the ability to KNOW things (1 Cor. 2:11) - which is not a function of "breath"[/li][/list]

All these are clear pointers to the FACT that the "spirit" of man within him is not simply a matter of "breath of life". Please understand that:

The "spirit" of man within him is NOT EQUAL to "breath of life"!!!

If you hold the view that the "spirit" = "breath", then you would have to carefully delineate for us all the precise FUNCTIONS of "breath" and let us see how they tessellate with the functions of the "spirit".

Your problem, Bobbyaf (as with many people), is that you're reading a forced idea into every instance where the word "spirit" appears in the OT verses you had cited - without even taking a careful step to seek out the context of its varied uses in Scripture! When someone tries to force his ideas into the text as you do, then all we have is a personal pretext that is skewed and away from the intended meaning of a verse. And please, if you assume that my submissions are as skewed, please, please, and please go one step further to show where I might be mistaken, thank you.

Bobbyaf:
I have to laugh. My argument holds no water? Its not my argument its God's.

Aiight. . .let's cut out all the pride - it is all too classic of a manifestation of an empty spirit. I do not hold my views as superior to anyone's. I'm learning to be humble enough to learn - and anyone willing enough to help out here should offer cogent discussions based on what they understand from God's word without assuming to take His place!

@Bobbyaf,

Bobbyaf:
Most translations if not all agree that the word "spirit" means "breath of life".

Further to the foregoing, let's note that:

B. The "spirit" in man has distinct functions from "breath"

The point has already been made that (according to Strong's Concordance) the term "spirit" in reference to man includes its expression and functions. The functions of the spirit supercede the breath, even though both are important.

Some of the functions of the "spirit" (as far as 'expressions' are allowed) point to the fact that:

~ man's spirit constrains him (Job 32:18);

~ his spirit can also:
[list][li]be troubled (Gen. 41:8; Job 21:4 and Dan. 2:3);[/li][/list]
[list][li]be sad (1 Kings 21:5)[/li][/list]
[list][li]experience anguish (Job 7:11)[/li][/list]
[list][li]be hardened (Deut. 2:30)[/li][/list]
[list][li]be provoked (Psalm 106:33)[/li][/list]
[list][li]be overwhelmed (Psalm 142:3 & 4)[/li][/list]
[list][li]be patient or proud (Eccl. 7:8)[/li][/list]
[list][li]be grieved (Isaiah 54:6 and Dan. 7:15)[/li][/list]

~ by his spirit man is able to make dilligent search (Psalm 77:6).

There a lot of functions connected with the "spirit" of man; and one cannot misconstrue these "functions" as indices of the "breath" of man. It would absolutely be absurd for anyone to imagine, for instance, that "spirit" means "breath" in such texts as Psalm 77:6 - as if the Psalmist meant to say 'my "breath of life" made dilligent search'; nor would it make any sense to read 1 Kings 21:5 as if Jezebel meant to say 'Why is thy "breath of life" so sad . . ?'


C. The "spirit" is a distinct component of man

We understand that man is comprised of "spirit, soul and body" (1 Thes. 5:23); and that the spirit and soul are two distinct components that cannot be mistaken the one for the other - which is why Hebrews 4:12. speaks of "the dividing asunder of soul and spirit".

Let's quote again the verses cited already to distinguish them:

Isaiah: Isaiah 26:9
With my soul have I desired thee in the night;
yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early:
for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants
of the world will learn righteousness.

Mary: Luke 1:46-47
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Paul: 1 Cor. 14:14
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth,
but my understanding is unfruitful.

First, we learn from those verses that the "spirit" is quite distinct from the "soul" - they are not the same (as you also recognized earlier).

Second, we understand that both the "spirit" and the "soul" of man have their varied expressions and functions. One cannot apply a cut-and-dry rule to make the "spirit" = "breath of life" in every instance as you have assumed - as if man assimilates spiritual matters merely by his breath!! These verses (as well as numerous others) simply cast that idea aside and enables us to seek the contextual application of what is meant by the "spirit" of man.

The prophet Isaiah desired God with his soul, but said that with his spirit he would "seek" Him.

In Mary's case, she magnified the Lord with her soul, but her spirit rejoiced in God her Saviour.

The "spirit" of man is not to be confused for the "breath of life"; for there are tomes of evidence in Scripture to point out the fact that the "breath" that man has is not capable in (nor used for) grasping "spiritual matters" in the things of God.

@Bobbyaf,

I have tried to patiently follow your ideas all through; but it seems you're rather straining at an insignificant theory that really does not undergird your persuasions. At the risk of anticpating your answers to the sane questions posed both by ricadelide and longman83, let me help a little here.

It's great to see that you have no qualms with the Biblical fact that man's spirit goes back to God in Heaven:

Bobbyaf:
The body descends to the dust, and the spirit goes back to God in heaven, hence no more existence of a soul.

Your problem, however, is being able to see what exactly is the spirit of man. Aside the fact that your recent rejoinders have carefully evaded (or tacitly avoided) the real concerns and questions in others' repostes, you don't seem to have a good grasp of the word "spirit" which you are forcing in every instance to mean "breath of life". Let's review your statements and persuasions:

#1

Bobbyaf:
There is actually no confusion at all. The spirit means "breath of life"

#2

Bobbyaf:
Most translations if not all agree that the word "spirit" means "breath of life". It is this breath of life that departs us when we die. When we take our last breath, the spirit goes back to God.

Just so that you understand how you're mixing issues up on these terms, let me delineate them neatly for you.

A. There is a difference between "spirit" and "breath"

There is a clear difference between "breath" and "spirit". You would have easily seen the difference if you'd endeavoured to do a study of the words being translated ether as spirit or breath in the translations you had inferred. Just two examples in Scripture to distinguish between them:

Job 34:14 & 15
If he set his heart upon man,
if he gather unto himself his spirit^A and his breath^B;
All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn
again unto dust.

Isaiah 42:5
Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens,
and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth,
and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath^B unto
the people upon it, and spirit^A to them that walk therein.

One can readily see that spirit is distinct from breath; and both words in Hebrew as they appear in those verses are not the same:

(A) SPIRIT - רוּח (rûach)       

(B) BREATH - נשׁמה (n^eshâmâh)

The former ("spirit" - רוּח [rûach]) is used especially in reference to man as a rational being, including its [i.e., the spirit's] expression and functions (Strong's Concordance). It is that part of man himself that is able to grasp spiritual matters in the things of God, as well as express intelligent worship to Him. This is clear in the following examples:

Isaiah: Isaiah 26:9
With my soul have I desired thee in the night;
yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early:
for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants
of the world will learn righteousness.

Mary: Luke 1:46-47
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Paul: 1 Cor. 14:14
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth,
but my understanding is unfruitful.

Even if you apply a common sense approach as you hinted earlier, it is clear that neither Isaiah, Mary nor Paul were pointing to their "breaths"; for it would indeed be absurd for any "translation" to misconstrue spirit in those verses to mean "breath of life" (as if Paul meant to say 'if I pray in an unknown tongue, "my breath of life" prayeth').

On the other hand, the latter term ("breath" - נשׁמה [n^eshâmâh]) is self-explanatory in the verses cited earlier (Job 34:14 & 15 and Isaiah 42:5) as pointing simply to the breath of man.

longman83:
Not surprisingly, I sense a great deal of semantic confusion here, esp. over the word 'spirit'.

ricadelide:
As longman83 pointed out spot-on, this is a semantics issue. The ‘spirit’ does not refer to ‘breath of life’. They are two different things.

@longman83 and ricadelide,

The discussion both ways has been interesting; but I sense (as you do) that our dear friends unfortunately don't seem to have a thorough grasp of the word "spirit". Just so that many people do not continue to hold such unfortunate ideas and arrive at the wrong inferences (as olabowale predictably did), just permit me (as your student ) to try and straighten out this semantic term and demonstrate that it actually does not mean the same thing as "breath".

Good posts, All; and cheers.