₦airaland Forum

TATIME:
#Primesky my friend, These people are intelligent creatures themselves and they have working brains to think on their own. Their faculty is of two groups claiming just one,(1) those who sincerely assume that there is NO supreme being "God". And (2) those who got to this point due to frustration in religion. So to help anyone,Jesus said "go and meet them in their homes"(Matthew 10:12,13)that is where you can have a heart to heart discussion with them. Your duty as a Christian is to sow the seed,your fellow Christian will water it but God is the one who will make it grow in their hearts. 1Corinthians 3:6 Jesus didn't send Christians to every individual(Matthew 10:5,6) notice Jesus' instruction "go to the LOST SHEEP" but why if His ransom is for the whole world? John 3:16 Well the truth is that most people don't want ORDERLINESS so they just want to do anything not caring if they or others gets hurt as a result of their deeds,Jesus liken these ones to "goats". And few are sincerely searching for right standards to keep everyone in check,they are ready to obey as long as the rules will benefit everyone so Jesus liken these ones to "sheep". Christians are in search of the SHEEP but at times it's not their condition or attitude that determines whether they are sheep or goats because some may have questionable characters yet have clean conscience. Luke 23:39-43 compared to John 4:7-42 If we're to judge by deeds of course nobody will think of considering a THIEF or a NYMPHOMANIAC of been worthy of pure worship But God can see the inner thoughts of each person's heart,that is why our preaching and teaching work is to make presentations and allow each listener to prove what type of person they are on the inside! Matthew 13:18-23 compare to Hebrews 4:12 If anyone is of good share God will notice such a person and draw him/her to HIMSELF through our preaching and teaching work,then Jesus will cure them to have everlasting life! That is why Jesus NEVER encouraged throwing the gospel into the air publicly but directed us specifically to individuals those who believe they need spiritual food guidance and standards. Matthew 5:3,12:19 compare to Jeremiah 10:23 God bless you!

It feels bad seeing fellow humans on their way to destruction and death. God's heart still yearns for them. We're God's hands and feet extended to reach out to the lost.

JackBizzle:
Will you keep quiet?

You better go and face your God believing Christians and Muslims who are destroying this country.

Speck of dust and log of wood etc

Charity begins at home

Sorry, I won't be quiet!. I will keep saying the truth, no matter whose bubble it burst.

The prayers and intercesion of faithful Christians is the reason why someone like you is still walking about free. You should be grateful and repent yourself.

Ezekiel 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.

dalaman:
Will you stop talking about mythical beings? Satan, demons etc are all mythical beings. When you are serious and start talking about real things then we will be serious with you , for now take your lies and leave. You are a liar!

You can never deny the truth!. You choose to believe a lie. Repent and be saved!. Your denying it won't save you.

TATIME:
#Primesky i studied the human body far much more than you can imagine! It is scientifically proved that the brain cells are the last to die even when all other parts of the body stopped functioning,of course it's the last recorded information that's capable of ringing in the dead person's brains. Let a DEDICATED member from each of all these group Indu,Buddhist,Muslim,Catholic,Atheist falls in that same condition,i can assure you that each will keep dreaming of what has been recorded or programmed in their brains before the occurrence(death). Please that never meant that what they were all dreaming is real. Moreover how do you now prove that what atheists are seeing is demons in their ASTRA travels if you accept what others saw in their dreams as real You can't say your own folks ASTRA travelled and saw something beneficial yet claiming that another group are seeing LIES simply because atheists called their own "astra travel" while your folks called their own revelations from the Lord My friend,it's all LIES! Satan is only brandishing it in different versions,God said "Adam will die" and Satan said "God lied",anyone saying anything survived Adam or his offspring after death is simply saying "Adam is still alive somewhere" whereas the TRUTH is that Adam is dead and has returned to NONE EXISTENCE! Notice what Satan told Eve "you will become like God(who is not seen but can see everything)at DEATH" Genesis 3:4,5 So wake up!

This is the promise of God to His people, particularly for the end time believers.

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Notice that the dreamer is not the one doing it, or manipulating it. The visioneer is not the one arranging when and how the vision will come. Is the bible, which you claim to believe in, lying here?.

But Astra projection is 100% will power and decision!.

So on whose side exactly are you?.

budaatum:
Whenever you pray for me, please don't forget to pray for your self too.

Always!.

MuttleyLaff:
Maybe it's because I am a glutton for punishment

Reading your next nine sections below that I am responding to, is evidence of this

Wishful thinking.
You wish, I have shot myself on the foot.

Please reproduce here, where I typed and you claim I've said:
Jesus always speaks in parable to the non disciples, but plainly to His disciples.

If you cant, if you are unable to, then please retract that false statement
and tender apologies accordingly

He did not say anything to them without a parable.
But privately He explained all things to His own disciples.
- Mark 4:34

When Jesus had left the crowd and gone indoors, his disciples came to him and said,
"Tell us what the parable about the weeds in the field means."
(i.e. please explain to us that parable of the tares and of the field.'')
- Matthew 13:36

Later, when Jesus was alone with the twelve disciples
and with the others who were gathered around,
they asked him what the parables meant
- Mark 4:10

His disciples began questioning Him as to what this parable meant.
- Luke 8:9

I remember vividly posting Mark 4:34 above, with the emboldened and underlined.
How could you have missed not reading or seeing it?

Even if you missed Mark 4:34, what about the other three, namely Matthew 13:36, Mark 4:10 and Luke 8:9?
Seems you willingly ignored the greater part of the content of my earlier post

It is ignorance that leads you to make such an unbearable comment.
I will leave anymore response on this section until later because I'll adequately be addressing it somewhere else down below

What exactly is your point here Primesky?

1/ Are you saying, dead people still have hands, after they are buried and their bodies get decomposed?
2/ Do you not know what Mark 9:43 is?
3/ Is it that you think/thought Mark 9:43 is a parable?
4/ Are you familiar with common figures of speech Jesus often used in His earthly ministry teachings?
5/ Do you know from answering #4/ above, which of the figures of speech, Mark 9:43 comes under?

1/ Primesky, do you know that, all scripture is inspired by God?
2/ Do you know that, translation of the bible into other languages from the original text is not inspired by God?
3a/ Do you know that, when the books of the Bible were originally written there were no such things as chapters or verses?
3b/ Do you know that each book of the bible was written without any breaks, from the beginning to the end.
4/ Now do you also know that, dividing the bible into chapters and verses is not inspired by God

When Jesus noticed how the guests chose the places of honor, He told them a parable:
- Luke 14:7

The first step Primesky, in Bible understanding and correct interpretation, is to ignore its chapter and verse divisions.
Now Primesky, if you had abided by this useful rule of thumb,
you would have noticed that Luke chapter 16, traced, actually goes, as far back, as Luke 14:1
and that Luke 14:7 reproduced above, is the start, of a series of parables spoken, that extends to Luke chapter 16.

I am not responsible for convincing you.
I have told you what water symbolically meant in the parable,
if you like, dont accept what it symbolically meant in the parable.

1/ Do you know what happened, what Jesus did, a few weeks after He narrated that parable of the Rich man and Poor man named Lazarus?
2/ Most of the verisimilitude characters in Jesus' parable hardly have names, but the name of the poor man was given.
Do you know why Jesus, on purpose, gave Lazarus, as the name of the poor man, in that parable?

But the Holy Spirit will come and help you, because the Father will send the Spirit to take my place.
The Spirit will teach you everything and will remind you of what I said while I was with you.
- John 14:26

However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth.
For He will not speak on His own,
but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come
- John 16:13

Primesky who does the explaining?
Who is responsible for the explanation? Hmm?

I know John 14:26 and John 16:13 above, both, easily are understood and so need no interpreting them.

The truth will always be the truth even if no one believes it.

You come across like one of the people in the bible Jesus tells parables to.

Hearing, they dont really listen, nor do they even try to understand
Reading, they do not read posts properly nor read to understand
Seeing, they do not see
because the more, they look, the less, they see.

Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, ignorance or disbelief.
My special sympathy for your lack of understanding, ignorance and/or disbelief.

My Lord and my God!. What lies!. What falsehood!. What trickery and misinterpretation!. Open denial, wrong assumptions, aaaaah! When I thought I've seen the worst, then comes the mother of subtlety!.

Engaging you on this level is to make room for huge deception!. Your reply above has clearly exposed who you are.

Jesus and figures of speech?!. Wonderful!.

Is the Holy Spirit coming to explain parables or to remind us of what Jesus has said before, lead us into the truth, and show us things to come?. For every parable given, there's always an interpretation!. Stop the assumption already.

Does man have a soul and spirit or not?

You're demanding for apologies and withdrawal of statement. Please on what ground?. Did your position which you misinterpreted from the bible mean a different thing from what I said?. Your statement means that Jesus does not speak plainly with non disciples!. I stand by that!. Or does Jesus speak plainly to non disciples secretly like he does to his disciples?.

Please, did God tell you that the arrangement of the chapters and verses of the scriptures by a man later in time, was not inspired by Him?. I'm just asking, did He tell you so, or are you assuming?

If Jesus is speaking to His disciples, does He need to speak in parables and later explain to them again?. It's clear you misunderstand the context in which Jesus was said to have spoken in parables. Was that statement for all of His life time, or was it for a particular time, occasion, event etc?.

For example, Jesus had a chat with Zachaeus, He had a chat with Nicodemus, He had a chat with alot of other persons, and their dialogue was documented. Are those words of Jesus to these persons parables, because this were not Jesus disciples?.

Are you aware that these dialogue happened between Jesus and Nicodemus?.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Was Nicodemus a disciple of Jesus Christ then?, was all these and all that followed in that discussion a parable?. From your position, Jesus shouldn't be speaking plainly to a pharesse, since he isn't a disciple.

Again, here is another place where Jesus spoke to not one person but a crowd.

Matthew 5:1 [b]And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.[/b]

Please is this a parable, or a figure of speech?. Why didn't the disciples demand for it's explanation secretly like they use to?.

It's clear, you're misinterpreting the bible. And you're doing it with so much head knowledge!.

ovodino:
The gathering of Christians is very important to build our faith etc, but it is wrong to gather in a place where the truth is not being preached 100% of the time, and the manner of our present association is wrong. The moment we choose to be a member of a particular church, we are indirectly segregating, the moment we walk pass a church in our neurborhood to go worship with another church in another location, we are segregating, and that is wrong. The moment we give a church a name, we have differentiated it, because as a Christian u are already a member of the church of Jesus, you don't need to be a member of another one. Let us take the early Christians as example, in the days of the apostles, they have lots of Christians in different cities at that time, they also gather at different location, they have different peope leading them but at no time did they give their self different name, if they want to refer to the Christians in a particular place they call them the church( the Christians) at the name of the place, example they will refer to the Christians in Lagos as the church in Lagos, because there is no division among them. This present church system we have now is exactly what (1Corinthians 3) is warning against, so it is very important a true Christian should get out of it.

I agree with you totally!. This is what division has done to us. Each denomination with its own doctrine based on their own interpretation of the bible. Hmm...

Then what we must do now is to depend on God's Holy Spirit to guide us. Yes, He can tell you where to go and where not to go. The church belongs to Jesus Christ and not to any 'daddy G.O'. May God help us and may He rebuild His church in truth and righteousness.

Thanks dear.

OneJ:
At Rev21:6 & 22:13 both. refer exclusively to God Almighty, not to Jesus Christ. Jesus & Almighty God are two distinct entities.
(1 Cor15:24,28. John 14:1. 17:1-3). Your Trinitarian website ntgreek.com has also confirmed it that Jesus "is not the Father God"
Pls don't get it twisted.




Do U even understand what U copy & paste above? That your aomin.org copy & paste is irrelevant here. Why?
Because the definite article ("the" is very common in Greek. No one is contesting that.
The bone of contention is should indefinite article ("a" be used in John 1:1? ntgreek.com says "it can not just be assumed" that indefinite article be placed there because of their doctrinal bias .

Ntgreek .com's arguement is weak& faulty because every other verse with similar Greek grammatical construction (Acts12:22. 28:6) with John 1:1 has ( "a god" there.
What is good for the gander is also good for the goose. (Hausa man say sell me as U sell my broda. Wetin una give Acts 28:6. 12:22, naim John 1:1 deserve. If U no agree, U done do 419 for there).




Does John 1:1 mean that Jesus is God?

Ntgreek says " However, since (John 1:1c) does not have the indefinite article , it does indicate that this Word was not the same person as the Father God".


Them say Jesus no be God.


Primesky , why U dey vex & dey lie lie when U see the truth stark naked before your very eyes?

Hahaha... Kai! OneJ, you're so funny. I've been laughing out loud since. So now, the site is faulty, right? Because it has exposed the reality to you. Why do you keep holding on to a faulty doctrine?.

I suggest you carefully read the full document above again.

Aaah OneJ!, see, truth cannot be hidden or destroyed.

Read these below and try to tell yourself the truth for once. Jesus is not God the father, but you can't separate Him from God the Father. We have one God manifesting in three personalities. So, we have God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. They are one and the same. If you can't understand the relationship between ice, vapour and water, then you can't understand it. Is ice water?, is vapour water?, yet they are one and the same, having similar properties, but playing different roles. Please understand.

Now carefully read the passages below and see who is talking.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Is that difficult to see?. Now let's see the preceding chapters and verses and establish who is actually speaking.

Revelation 1:10 [b]I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;[/b]

Are you still going to argue about who is speaking?. This is Jesus Christ speaking here. And He says 'I am alpha and omega, the first and the last'. Tell me, according to you, Jesus Christ is a lesser God, how then does He claim the position and title of God?.

Don't forget the same thing played out in Isaiah chapter 9:6 where He was called the everlasting Father.

Again, the scriptures made it clear that Jesus is one with God. He is the visible image of God the Father. In other words, if you want to see God, look at Jesus Christ. That's why Jesus said to Philip, that whoever has seen Him, has seen the Father!.

Please stop believing in a lie.

God is one. He manifests Himself in three personalities.

God the Father - the Supreme head.

God the Son - the express image and love of God personified.

God the Holy Spirit - The carrier of God's presence and power.

But they are one and the same. Just as ice and vapour falls back to water the head or parent state, so it is here.

OneJ:
The website (ntgreek.com) U dey copy & paste have exposed your Trinity lie lie. Pls read again, wetin U copy & paste below::
"However, since it (John 1:1c) does not have the definite article ("the", it does indicate that this Word was not the same person as the Father God."
Bro, no be Arabic or French be that.
Na simple English.


John17:3,17 "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you ,the only true God,and Jesus Christ,whom you have sent"
Vs 17: Sanctify them by the truth;your word is truth"
Jesus Christ our Messiah has revealed the truth. Therefore, he has provided a trustworthy and credible answer to your question.
BTW,between U & Jesus , who is more credible? If wetin Jesus talk for John 17:3,17 dey vex U, then quarrel with your Bible.


Your crooked twist & somersault responses proves beyond doubt that U are more confused than I had reckoned.



U don't have to accept or concur with the beliefs of JW, but resist the itch to malign Jehovah's name.
Shalom.

Hahaha... Why do you confuse yourself so much?. Must you lie to defend yourself always?. Liars go to hell whether you beleiyit or not. So do yourself a favour and repent.

In case you can't read clearly or understand. Here is a full page from the site you seem to have fallen in love with. The truth of what it says. This is an answer to the same question we're discussing.

Verse in Question: John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

In answering your question, let me first note that understanding the Greek text of the New Testament is extremely important and necessary for a clear apprehension of what the writers of the New Testament meant as they wrote the letters and accounts that we now enjoy. One note of caution is needful because Greek, like every language, has its own nuances and ways of saying things that can lead to confusion or misunderstanding when looking at it from the perspective of an English (or foreign) reader. An excellent example of this is the phrase you asked about in John 1:1.

The Apparent Difference in Spelling

First of all, the same Greek word is used in both occurrences of the word "God" in John 1:1. This same word is used in many contexts, whether it refers to the Only True God or whether it is referring to a false god - such as a man-made god (1 Cor. 8:5) or Satan as the ‘god of this age’ (2 Cor. 4:4). The apparent differences in spelling between the word ‘God’ in the phrase ‘and the Word was God’ (‘theos’) and in other places, (even in the previous phrase, ‘and the Word was with God’ (‘theon’)) is due to inflection in the Greek language. Each Greek noun normally has 8 or 9 forms (cases & number) in which it can appear. (See my page on ‘Inflection’ and ‘Cases’ on the Web site). In the first instance in John 1:1 it is the object of preposition and thus is in the accusative case. In the phrase in question, it is in the nominative case (indicating the subject or predicate nominative - equal to the subject). But it is the same word for ‘God’, and in both phrases here indicates the One and Only True God. So the apparent difference is spelling is not because ‘theos’ is a different word than ‘theon’, but is a different form of the identical word.

The Lack of a Greek Definite Article

Another common confusion in John 1:1 comes from the fact that in Greek there is no definite article in front of the word ‘God’ (‘theos’) in the phrase ‘and the Word was God’. The confusion arises from an assumption that if there is no definite article in the Greek, then it must have an indefinite meaning and thus should be translated with the indefinite article "a". Based on this understanding, some argue that this phrase in John 1:1 should be translated "the word was a god," rather than "the word was God." It is important at this point to understand that the Greek language has a definite article (‘the’), but does not have an indefinite article (‘a’ or ‘an’). In certain instances, when the Greek omits a definite article, it may be appropriate to insert an indefinite article for the sake of the English translation and understanding. But we cannot assume that this is always appropriate. Greek does not operate in the same way as English does in regard to the use of the words ‘the’ and ‘a’. In many instances in which English would not include the word ‘the’, the Greek text includes it. (We don’t see it in the English translations because it would sound non-sensible in our language.) (See Note 1, below.) And in many cases where the Greek omits the definite article, the English translation requires it to convey the correct meaning of the Greek. (See Note 2, below.) Therefore it cannot be assumed that if the definite article is absent, then an indefinite article should be inserted. (For a clear illustration of this, see an example of the use of the word ‘God’ and the definite article in John chapter one.) Furthermore, even though the Greek language does not have an ‘indefinite article’ like we think of in English, there is a way in Greek for the writer to indicate the indefinite idea and thus avoid confusion. This is done in Greek by using the Greek indefinite pronoun ‘tis’.

In John 1:1 there is no definite article in front of the word ‘God’ in the phrase, ‘and the Word was God’. However, in this instance, it cannot just be assumed that the word ‘God’ is meant to be ‘indefinite’, and therefore an indefinite article used in the English translation. Because the first use of the word ‘God’ in John 1:1 (‘the Word was with God’) clearly refers to the Only True God, the Eternal Pre-existent Creator, more than likely John would have used a different Greek construction than he did if he had meant for this next phrase (‘and the Word was God’) to refer to a ‘lesser’ god, and did not want us to confuse this with the True God he had just mentioned. If John meant to avoid confusion, when making such a definitive statement, he could have done so by using this ‘indefinite pronoun’ (‘tis’) as an adjective. This would have made it clear that the Word was ‘a certain god’, but not the one he was just referring to. For examples of this, see the verses Mark 14:51, Luke 8:27, Luke 1:5, and Luke 11:1 (among many, many other examples). So, it seems that by the Greek grammatical structure in this statement, John is indicating that the Word (Jesus Christ - John 1:14) is the same essence and nature as God the Father.

(For a more thorough explanation of the function and use of the Greek article (and meaning of its absence), see ‘Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics’, by Daniel Wallace. He includes fifty pages - entitled ‘The Article, Part I’ - which is a more complete treatment of the subject that many grammar books present and explains all the general uses of the article. He actually has a ‘Part II’ which discusses some special issues with the article. Fifteen pages of this second section apply directly to understanding this passage in John 1:1. It is highly recommended for those who really desire an honest and thorough understanding of this passage.)

The Predicate Coming Before the Subject

Also, this phrase in John 1:1 is an example of a predicate nominative coming first in the sentence, before the subject. (Sentences like this one that use a linking verb require the noun in the predicate part of the sentence to be in the nominative case. Thus the phrase 'predicate nominative'.) The subject of this clause is ‘the Word’ and the predicate is ‘God’. In Greek, the word ‘God’ comes before the word ‘Word’. According to normal Greek usage (Colwell's Rule), the word ‘God’ should not have a definite article. Oftentimes, emphasis is shown in Greek by placing a word out of its normal, expected word order. Special emphasis is shown when the predicate comes first in the sentence. In other words, contrary to the thought that ‘since there is no definite article used here it could belittle the fact of the Word being God’, the fact that the word ‘God’ is used first in the sentence actually shows some emphasis that this Logos (Word) was in fact God in its nature. However, since it does not have the definite article, it does indicate that this Word was not the same ‘person’ as the Father God, but has the same ‘essence’ and ‘nature’.

The Context of All of the Apostle John’s Writings

It is also necessary to see this statement in context of the rest of John’s writings. When comparing this with other statements about who the person and nature of Jesus Christ really is, it adds to what is already made clear by the Greek grammar. See for instance: John 8:56-59 (cf. Exo. 3:13-14); 10:28-33; 14:6-11; 1 John 5:20; (also John 8:23; 3:12-13; 5:17-18). These verses also indicate that, in John’s understanding and thus the Bible’s clear statements, Jesus Christ is the same essence and nature as God the Father, but distinct in their person-hood.

Consulting with Other Well Respected Greek Scholars and Grammarians

For a further explanation and clarification about these items, it is helpful to consult with many of the well respected Greek scholars and expositors. Personally I have never come across any objective, well respected Greek grammarian that has come up with different conclusions that what has been presented here. Many of them go into much more detail than I have in these few short paragraphs. See for instance the writings of Daniel Wallace (‘Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics’), A.T. Robertson (both his ‘Grammar’ and ‘Word Pictures’), R.C.H. Lenski (in his commentary on the Gospel of John), Henry Alford (‘Greek Testament’), J.A. Bengel (‘Word Studies), Albert Barnes (‘Barnes’ Notes’), B.F. Westcott, and F.L. Godet, (and many others).

Final Comment

Bethany, I hope this helps to answer your questions. Obviously you are asking about a very large topic that can only be touched upon in such a small answer. My answer here is not meant to argue some theological doctrine, but to point out how important it is to have a pure heart when seeking God in His revealed speaking (the Bible) and how much it helps to know the Greek language in helping to answer some very complicated questions. A little (and incomplete) knowledge of Greek can do more harm than good when people try to apply it beyond their scope of knowledge. I beg you to seek the Lord honestly and continue to love Him with your whole heart. 1 Corinthians 8:1b-3 says, ‘Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him’. Many questions that are beyond our human understanding will only be answered when we see Him face to face. But for now, we continue to love Him and seek Him with our whole heart. The rest is up to Him. Please let me know if I can be of further help or guidance.

For a more systematic answer to the person of Jesus Christ, being both God and man,
please see a paper I wrote here: The Unity of the Person of Jesus Christ, the God-man

For further information (and a somewhat more scholarly approach to this specific question)
please see James White's answer at: http://www.aomin.org/JOHN1_1.html.


Note 1: A literal translation of the end of John 1:12 in Greek reads: ‘…to those who believe into [the] his name.’ It makes our English translation sound awkward or non-sensible to include the definite article 'the’ before the words ‘his name’, even though it appears in Greek.


Note 2: Literally in Greek, John 1:2 says: ‘He was in beginning with God.’ Notice that in Greek there is no definite article before the word ‘beginning’. It makes sense to include the definite article ‘the’ in our English translation for the sake of clarity and English idiom. Thus, ‘He was in the beginning with God.’

https://www.ntgreek.org/answers/answer-frame-john1_1.htm

Mr. OneJ, can you be honest, truthful and sincere enough, go through the full document above. Read from a someone who knows the mechanism of the language. You always pick out point that suit you and throw away the rest. Then you come up here on nairaland like a child claiming what I don't know. Sites won't help you. You will fail again there despite the biases. Let's look at the bible.

You are saying Jesus Christ is not in fact God, and he's not a true God?. You better explain this passage below.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Who made these statements?.

TATIME:
Primesky, les i forget Jesus preaching to the spirit has a deeper meaning my friend. The Bible is clear that in the grave their is NO repentance for the dead are conscious of nothing at all,they can't see,smell,hear or touch because THEY ARE DEAD! Ecclesiastes 9:4-11 So what is the meaning of that scripture? Well the spirits in question aren't those who are dead but demons in tartarus(Ephasians 6:12,2Peter 2:4,Jude 6,9) to know that Jesus is dead and so the opportunity for humans to live forever is now granted. These evil spirits thought they're still proving something since humans are under curse but at Jesus' death all their effort to prove that NO intelligent creature will remain on God's side in the face of severe test becomes futile! Job 1:7-12 compared to Hebrews 12:3 So Jesus' death is like telling those demons "all your efforts are in vain" that is why Satan their leader led them to start attacking TRUE Christians ever since the day Jesus died till today! Revelations 12:17 Now after Jesus' resurrection,He could say "all powers both in heaven and on earth has been given to Him" because He can now decide on what to do with Satan and the demons as Jehovah has made Him Judge after completing the greatest assignment ever! Matthew 28:18 compared to John 19:30

No my dear, there's no deeper meaning that what's there already!. Look at the scriptures again for clarity.

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

It's clear who Jesus was speaking or preaching to. Not to demons, but spirits which were once disobedient right from the previous flood era.

Look at this one below.

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Notice what the bible said came out, and what they did after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. It wasn't a parable, and this spirits weren't that of demons. The bible is clear on that.

Concerning the dead not knowing anything, it's simply taking about the human body. The body at death becomes unresponsive to anything around it. But the spirit lives, and is conscious of everything, in fact even more conscious than when in the body.

Do some research, you will see doctors, who have carried out scientific studies to find out if there's consciousness after death. More so, we have alot of does who were certified medically dead, who came back to life after several hours some days, who can give you detailed account of happenings from the Spirit realm. But Al the while their bodies, the five senses are useless, and unresponsive.

See, let me tell you the truth, we can argue from now till Jesus comes, although your religion says he's already here, obviously, that's not the Jesus Christ I know. But without the help of the Holy Spirit of God guiding you, you will continue to misinterpret and misapply the word of God.

Seek the help of God's Holy Spirit. He will guide you, and help you to thoroughly understandinh the scriptures.

frank317:
Was this write up inspired by the Holy Spirit?
What's the evidence of your God. Point just one.

You are one of them. If not tell me how you and everything else came about?.

Martinez19:
Atheists and christians don't believe in batman. Atheism and Christianity must be a strange thing because even the joker and his side kick never fell into that vice.
Atheism and Christianity must be truly strange because they don't believe in Harry Potter because even Lord Voldermote never disbelieved in Harry Potter. How could he?

Primesky.

Yeah, and you think you made sense?. Who is batman?, even by his costume, he represents someone we all know, and who inspires and controls the magic and sorceries like the one in Harry Potter?.

You havn't discredited my point in any way. All you mentioned above exist, and they know and believe God and they fear Him! Christians know these exist, and have power over them. Christians also believe in God, and have Him as a Father, but the ethiest is just floating with the assumption of mere existence!.

Only Jesus Christ can cure the confusion of the ethiests.

masterP042:
Epic response

What makes it epic?. What is the sense in what he has said in the said response?. Batman, Harry Potter and all the rest of them he mentioned are in one class, Christianity is in one class. The devils who control the practice and act of Harry Potter and all the magic and sorceries involved believe and fear God. The etheist said he believes in nothing, but actually he believes in something. Somebody comes up with some mubble jumble and you call it epic response. There's a mental crises called ethiesm, ravaging the society today.

Some have seen the truth and have existed thevself imposed confusion, yet many more are blindly fallen into the same pit.

ScepticalPyrrho:
Which God's evidence do we have around us?

You are one of such!. The number one evidence is you,
how did you get your thinking faculty?. Why don't animals have it like you. Why does man only have the capacity to dominate everything on earth. The answer is in the book of Genesis.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The one who made man, and all things, gave man the authority to dominate the earth, and so it is, does common sense support the fact that man will overrule creatures bigger and heavier than Him. Change the face of earth by his various ingenious activities?.

Secondly, the sky above us, how could it be there?. The unique designs in nature which man copies and imitate, how did it come about?.

But if you say, there's no God, then at least show us who and how everything else came about. That will suffice.

CAPSLOCKED:

ONE OF THE EVIDENCE GLAD THAT YOU MADE THIS POST IS SAYING "HI" FROM THE IDP CAMP IN MAIDUGURI....

What are you saying exactly?.

ovodino:
Not just JW but most churches (about 99.9%) are not preaching the truth about Jesus and why he came to die for us. Anybody who claim he/she is a true Christian, and is a member of any church is making a big mistake. All present organizations called church is what the devil is using to mislead the members that call themself Christians. Come out from that organization (church) and let Jesus set you free, only then will you see the light. A true Christian's faith should be tied directly to only God through Jesus, any other thing is false. The moment you join an organization (church), you have added another layer to connect to God. The moment you are out of that organization (church), you will realize from outside, from the smallest to the biggest church, from the poorest to the richest church, can be sumed up as one giant organization of CONFUSION and CONTRADICTION. Trust me, Jesus is not confusion, the words spoken by Jesus and the apostles are not confusion, neither do they contradict. The only way you will get the truth is by critically sturding the Bible and let God lead you to the truth.

My brother, the corruption is too much. Many churches this days are scam centers. Now, they're twisting the scriptures, misinterpreting and misquoting it to support selfish motives. How is it that men don't fear God?. It's a terrible thing to joke with the heart beat of God. Me I think it will be better for a terrorist and an armed robber on the judgement day, than the one who in the name of church and God deceives another.

However, my dear, we cannot totally neglect the church or the gathering together of ourselves. Doing so will be acting and living in disobedience to the command of the bible. This is one thing I believe the enemy wants to achieve by planting falsehood all over the place, Because he knows that if we're united, we are more powerful. We however, must be careful how we interact with these people. We need to know the Lord personally.

If we leave the church, the enemy will take over it. We must continue to expose the lies of Satan in the house of God, and pray that God will cleans His house of robbers and thieves. While we do this, we must be watchful and prayerful, so that we don't get drowned along with the drowning. Care must be taken in as much as we want to help them. Depend always on the grace and mercy of God.

Jesus Christ is Lord over His church forever!

MuttleyLaff:
When Jesus noticed how the guests chose the places of honor, He told them a parable:
- Luke 14:7

Then Jesus told them this parable:
- Luke 15:3

Jesus also said to His disciples...
- Luke 16:1a

And He told them many things in parables, saying,
A farmer went out to sow his seed
- Matthew 13:3

³⁴Jesus always used stories and illustrations like these when speaking to the crowds.
In fact, he never spoke to them without using such parables.
³⁵This fulfilled what God had spoken through the prophet:
"I will speak to you in parables. I will explain things hidden since the creation of the world."
- Matthew 13:34-35

He did not say anything to them without a parable.
But privately He explained all things to His own disciples.
- Mark 4:34

Primesky, remember I earlier wrote,
just because you're telling a joke, it doesnt necessarily mean, the joke is devoid of some element of truth and reality
well, so is the same with parables
and particular so too, with the case of the parable of the Rich man and Poor man, Lazarus.

As can be seen with Luke 14:7, Luke 15:3, Luke 16:1a etcetra above
Jesus, told quite a sizeable amount of parables, varying in total, between a number of 45 and 60.
They usually have a plethora of lessons and moral truth in them.

Also, a good amount of the parables, are a faithful representation of reality,
told, as a story, with verisimilitude characters, the Rich man & Poor man named, Lazarus characters, are examples of one

Yes, there is/was a demarcation,
and its a demarcation that is impossible to cross.

By the way, contrary to popular belief/opinion,
there is not an interim place, called Hell or Hades where people, go to and languish in fiery torment, pending the white throne judgement
That is part of Greek mythology

Grave/tomb/sepulchre sites are merely places of deposit for a corpse.
So, sheol, in an oversimplified or elementary manner, can be grave or has been referred as grave
Sheol, as a matter of fact, is the realm of the dead or departed souls

Souls, do not, in the land of the living, linger in the air.
Souls, do not, in the land of the living, stay in limbo.
Souls, do not, in the land of the living, hang about.
Souls, do not make revisit(s), to them/those in the land of the living.

Sheol is more of a proper and real biblical Israelite concept, of where, the dead, their souls, are ''interned''
Sheol, as at times, its a grave and at another time, its like an ''airport transit lounge''

Every human being, after drawing their last breath, ends up in Sheol
and remain there, waiting, until boarding to their final and respective destination

So, Sheol is like being in an airport terminal's departure area
The area where you (i.e. think of the Rich man here) hold your ticket, boarding pass and wait with your luggages before taking a flight to your final destination

Some airlines, as a service to premium or selected passengers, operate airline lounges,
providing the premium or selected passengers with comforts in these lounges,
that are better than and beyond, those available in the airport terminal's departure area for regular or economy passengers

These premium or selected choice passengers (e.g. think of Father Abraham and the Poor man here),
enjoy plush and more comfortable seating, quieter environments, advantage perks are provided.
Other privileges may include private meeting rooms, telephones, wireless internet access and other business services, along with provision of free drinks and snacks to enhance passenger comfort.
- looks and sounds like a place of bliss, doesnt it?

Sheol too, has a model similar to this:
There is the Rich man's side aka Hades
and there is Abraham's side aka Abraham's bosom aka place of bliss

How did/does Sheol exist?
Well, until Jesus' parable in the NT, sheol in general, without necessarily distinguishing between righteous or unrighteous souls, has been the realm of the dead or abode of the dead.

We have verses in OT (e.g. Psalm 9:17 etcetera) suggesting that the wicked go to sheol
but it was Jesus in the NT that brought things into perspective when he shared the hyperbolic illustration of sheol with the story of the Rich Man being elsewhere and Abraham with the Poor Man being on a different side

From Jesus' parable, we got to know, Sheol, has two sections with a dividing gulf (i.e. demarcation, as you Primesky, like to put it)
The two sections were the Rich man section and Abraham's bosom section

Those, initially and who would have been, in the good side of Sheol, (i.e. Abraham's bosom) are now in Paradise

The etymology of afterlife from a Jewish point of view and concept (i.e. Sheol, with 2 sections) has changed over time
and Sheol, since, has being interchangeably replaced with Gehenna and Hell/Hades

First and foremost, there's the saying to:
Prefer knowledge to wealth, as one is permanent, the other isnt

Primesky, the Rich man made three requests
and the first one, was an inexcusable self centred one, where he was looking out for himself first
Not surprised though, as in the parable, he was potrayed as someone, who lived selfishly during his ifetime
Anyway, it wasnt until when he found out that his first request cant be granted,
that he then switched to making a second and third request, for the sake of his other five brothers, now looking out for them

Water, in this context and in that parable, is used as a metaphor, representing truth and knowledge

Lazarus, already knows the truth and has had the knowledge, so has no need to request for water
The Rich man, on the other hand, has just developed a thirst for truth and knowledge,
but for him, especially where he is, it is too late for him, to be requesting for water (i.e. truth and knowledge)
even a drop of it, is out of the question, because in the location where he's in right now, it's not just a matter of too little, too late
it's the fact that his destination, at the point is SEALED, and so cant be changed or reversed.

You're right that the Rich man complained about being in torment
and noted that Lazarus was being comforted in Abraham's bossom in the same Sheol
but the Rich man never once asked why he was in the place of torment part of Sheol
and why Lazarus was in Sheol's other part, the place of comfort

The Rich man seems, to have not fight the decision of being in the place of torment.
Seems to know he belonged there
He didnt even try to get transfer across to the Lazarus Sheol's other part, the place of comfort
Looks like he knew he deserved to be in the place where he found himself

One of the things, to take away and learn from that parable,
is that, there is a place, after death, that people will find themselves
and wont dispute or argue for being there

When Jesus had left the crowd and gone indoors, his disciples came to him and said,
"Tell us what the parable about the weeds in the field means."
(i.e. please explain to us that parable of the tares and of the field.'')
- Matthew 13:36

Later, when Jesus was alone with the twelve disciples
and with the others who were gathered around,
they asked him what the parables meant
- Mark 4:10

His disciples began questioning Him as to what this parable meant.
- Luke 8:9

I thank you very much for your patience and civility in answering the questions. However, by your own explanations, you seem to have shot yourself on the foot!. According to you, Jesus always speaks in parable to the non disciples, but plainly to His disciples. Please read Luke chapter 16 :1 to the end. Who did the Bible say Jesus was speaking to?. He was speaking to His disciples, so was He also speaking in parables to them?. Another thing you failed to observe is that, whenever Jesus spoke in parable, the bible always indicate that from the beginning, that look, here Jesus was speaking in parables. But that cannot be said of the two cases in Luke chapter 16.

Another example I want you to consider is this

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Here Jesus literally mentioned the fact that one can go into hell fire that never shall be quenched.

Who was Jesus talking to?, to His disciples, read from verse 38 of Mark chapter 9. The matter is very clear.

Again, I will strongly disagree with you, even though you can pin point bible verses to back up your claims. Whenever Jesus spoke in parable, the bible will always indicate that, however in Luke chapter 16, and some others, He spoke plainly!.
Whenever Jesus speaks in parable, the bible does not expect you to explain the parable, it interpretes it by itself, to avoid confusion. Now look at what you're saying. Someone else will come and say a different thing. And God is not the author of confusion. If the water the richman was asking is the word of God like you said, what does he then mean by asking father Abraham to send someone to go and warn his people. It should have been, let someone go and give my brethren water!. Why the contradictions?. You can see the flaws.

The bible is clear and plain. Even parables, when used are explained!.

I hope you know that it is a very terrible thing to add to the scriptures what isn't there?. The bible is clear, and can stand on its own. It needs no addition from anybody. Your position is born out of someone's feelings and believe of how things should be, but unfortunately, that's not the way it is in the bible

Jehovah's Witnesses deny the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. Instead they teach that Jesus' body was dissolved into gases. Charles Taze Russell, founder of the organization taught, "The man Jesus is dead, forever dead" (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 5, 1899, p. 454).

However, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus' body was raised back to life: For example, Luke 24:39 — "Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." See also — John 2:19-21; John 20:26-28; 1 Corinthians 15:6,14.

Atheism is a strange thing. Even the devils never fell into that vice, for “the devils also believe and tremble” (James 2:19). - Charles Spurgeon.

Atheist say there's no God, how strange!. The devil and the demons themselves who inspired such deceptive lies, believe in God and they tremble. For a man to say there's no God is to subscribe to the highest level of confusion. The evidence of God is all around us.

I will appeal to these wonderful souls to consider their stand because it is even against nature!, lest in assuming to be wise, you're found to be foolish.

Jesus loves you.

0temSapien:
Who is the Lord?
God Almighty, the creator of Yahweh, is the maker of the earth and every other planet.

Your senseless inanimate existence is not capable of anything. All things were made by Yahweh the almighty God. Before him you and your fallen angels colleagues will bow and worship.

As for your fallen angels colleagues, tell them that they will fail so miserably!.

Repent and seek Jesus Christ now!.

OneJ:
Primesky make I break am down for U....

(i) Bcause of sin ,Adam the father of all mankind lost the God's gift of eternal life (Romans5:12. 6:23). God restored it back to man thru Jesus ransom sacrifice. God sent Jesus the second Adam & gave him the title of "Eternal Father". Jesus is Eternal father of everyone who believe in him & exercise faith that he is the God sent Messiah.(1Cor15:45. John 3:16). Also, because Jesus is our Eternal Father, he has authority to resurrect the dead (restore eternal life )back to faithful mankind (John 5:24-29. Acts 24:15). A human father gives life to his offspring . The Eternal Father grants eternal life to faithful believers.


(ii) Primesky, why U no wan use your brain? Is the usage of word "father" or any compound word with "father" limited to Baba God?
Is Godfather a reference to the Almighty God? God?


(iii) Primesky said "tell us Mr OneJ is Jesus Christ a true God or not?".

Nairalanders,Jesus has provided the answer. in John 17:3."Now this is eternal life: That they may know you ,the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent".
Also ,see Matt16:13-17. John 20:30,31.


Primesky, did Jesus say he is "the only true God"?


(iv) Even sef , ntgreek.org wey U dey quote up and down done deny U finish..... https://www.ntgreek.org/answers/answer-frame-john1_1.htm

"....when the Greek omits a definite article, it may be appropriate to insert an indefinite article for the sake of English translation and understanding.....
However since (John 1:1c) does not have the definite article, it does indicate that this Logos (Word) was not the same person as the Father God.."


(In other words, ntgreek.org admitted that " the word was a god" is very correct.
Una see am, ntgreek done agree say "the word was a god". Therefore,Jesus is not God).


Primesky, ntgreek.org ,your fellow Trinity peddlers done rubbish una doctrine finish.
Dem done destroy una Trinity lie lie forever.


(V) For the sole reason that John 1:1, Acts 28:6, Acts 12:22 have the same grammatical construction. Therefore, what is good for the gander is also good for the goose. To argue & deny "a god " in John 1:1c amounts to double standard & deceit to promote the trinity fallacy.




Primesky , I pray U receive sense &wisdom of understanding. IJNA.....

OneJ, no amount of twisting and mumbling will free you.
Your explanation for eternal Father is totally false. And please for once stop pretending like you don't know the father we're talking about. If Jesus becomes our eternal Father according to you, what then will the only true God according to you become?. What do we now call Him?. A senior father God? Or the father of our eternal Father?. Hahaha. Please answer me.

Tell me is Jesus Christ a true God?. I am not asking you if he is the only true God or not. Your bible said He is 'a god'. Now you've quoted a site, wait first, answer the question. This a god', What kind of God is he?. Is He a true God or not?.

Mr. OneJ, I told you plainly that I wasn't going to argue with you based on online site. Because we have biases on both sides, for me and for you. In the same site, I will bring out a point to support my opinion as well and that won't , especially when you're twisting and misinterpreting the words. One writer says what he believes another says what he believes. Now, given what is in both bible versions, which translation does not affect as it were, tell me something and you're trying to wriggle out.

In fact, in the above post of yours, you said Jesus is not God, please who is He?.

MuttleyLaff:
Hell or better put, Hades, actually is a Greek concept, the Jews have no concept of Hell or Hades
they have sheol, alright but the concept of Hell or Hades, is a Greek one.

Sheol is more of a proper and real biblical Israelite concept of where the dead are ''interned''

Sheol in an oversimplified or elementary manner can be grave or has been referred as grave

Grave/tomb/sepulchre sites are merely places of deposit for a corpse. Sheol is the realm of the dead or departed souls
- Souls do not linger in the air. Souls do not stay in limbo. Souls do not hang about. Souls do not make revisits

Until Jesus in the NT, Sheol in general, without necessarily distinguishing between righteous or unrighteous souls, has been the realm of the dead or abode of the dead

We have verses in OT (e.g. Psalm 9:17 etcetera) suggesting that the wicked go to Sheol
but it was Jesus in the NT that brought things into perspective when he shared the hyperbolic illustration of Sheol with the story of the Rich Man being elsewhere and Abraham with the Poor Man being on a different side
Remember just like because you're telling a joke, it doesnt necessarily mean, the joke is devoid of some element of truth and reality
so is the case with the parable of the rich man and poor man.

Sheol (i.e. the original Hebrew concept of afterlife) now has gray lines shared with Gehenna (i.e. the refuse dump in Jerusalem hyperbolically referred to by Jesus in Matthew 5:29 Matthew 18:9 and Mark 9:47) and Hell (i.e. a Greek mythology and Greek concept of afterlife) which arent really understood
The etymology of afterlife from a Jewish concept (i.e. Sheol, with 2 sections) has changed over time and Sheol, since, has being interchangeably replaced with Gehenna and Hell/Hades

Reiterating, hell which has become synonymous with Hades, is neither Hebrew or Greek in origin

Sheol is, what you'll find in the original Hebrew text for any word for Hell
In other places, Hades or Hell was the Greek substitution for the part of Sheol where the Rich man is from the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

As a matter of fact, Hell, actually finds it roots in the classic Greek mythology, Hades

where Hades interestingly and actually, was the ancient Greek god of the underworld.
This god's name (i.e. Hades) later turned to mean the place or abode of the dead, which actually is exactly what Sheol is, what is signifies or represents.

Talking about Gehenna,
well it is a valley, a valley in Jerusalem, used as a dumping refuse site and so was used by Jesus to depict the Lake of fire
(i.e. it is a place of destruction, as in, via incineration, a place for destroying things)

As earlier mentioned, Gehenna was the incinerating refuse dump in Jerusalem
Hades however, historically and originally is the name of a Greek god until it got turned to meaning the place or abode of the dead
It later got interchanged with hell, which is from a German word root
It was bible translators who were substituing the original Hebrew word Sheol (i.e. the part where the dead of the Rich man sort are), with Greek counterparts Hades/Hell that made hell stick with us today

Death is not a physical person but it will cease to exist because it will be destroyed when figuratively thrown into a physical lake of fire

Hmm... Excuse me sir, the story of the Richman and Lazarus, was it real or a parable?.

In the story of the Richman and Lazarus, the both of them were in Sheol as you said, was there any demarcation between them both?. Why did the richman request for water and Lazarus didn't?. Since the both of them where in the same Sheol, why did the richman complain about being in torment and Lazarus was being comforted in Abraham's bossom in the same Sheol!. I will appreciate a clarification here. Thanks.

TATIME:
If you truly want to know the reason for our disagreement with the hellfire doctrine,then you need to answer few questions with REFERENCES from the Bible (1) When a person is truly nice,kind and good as in virtuous deeds but refuses to accept Jesus as his Lord, where will he spend eternity? (2) What happens to Adam and Eve? (3) How can God justify that HE is LOVE and forgives if HE(God) decides to retain an offender who spent 80 years to do evil(which is not possible because he will have his/her loved ones to whom he does good) in torment FOREVER I want us to take it one after the other with wisdom from God's word. Please don't bother about whatever your friend John is saying because i'm through with him as i've proved what i said so if he's still annoyed because i said there is greater wisdom in true Christianity then i can't help him. So answer those questions with references from the scriptures, thank you!

Human wisdom is what you're basing your doctrinal beliefs on. Sorry bro, you're bound to falter!. The bible is clear about the whole matter.

For the first question see this 1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

It doesn't matter how good and nice you are.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

No mater how nice and good you are, you don't still measure up without Jesus Christ. The bible said all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Without Jesus Christ, there's no salvation!, and if you don't have life and salvation which is in Jesus, your name can't be in the lambs book of life, so what follows, what do you expect?. Eternal death in the fires of hell!.

Your second question. I do not know what happened to Adam and Eve. And indeed what happened to the spirit and souls of all that died before the advent of Jesus Christ. However, the bible gave us a clue as to the possibility of them also hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ before the final judgment, even though they were dead. God is just. Look at the scripture below.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


Pay attention to the last verse above, you will see the set of spirits Jesus went to preach to after death. have you ever wondered why Jesus had to stay in the grave for three days?, maybe now you know. So nobody ever created by God will give excuse whether dead or alive, each one of us must make that important decision whether to believe in and accept Christ Jesus or not Because eternal life is in Jesus Christ.No man can have it dead or alive without Him. Don't forget that Jesus though appeared in the world seen at a later date, the bible says He has already been slain from the foundation of the world. So that includes Adam and Eve. Now whether they believed or not I can't tell. This is the same thing playing out in earth now!. If there was no hell and destruction so terrible and fearsome, God won't go all the way to save mankind. Think.

You can now see that your position about hell is born out of wrong feeling, interpretation and understanding of the scriptures by your founder. This position was not told him by God, neither did the Bible support it.

For your third question. God made you, me and all mankind freewill personalities. He advises us on what to do, hence the bible. He also provided a means of correction in case wrong is committed. The blood of Jesus Christ. He is enduringly patient with the offender. Should such a one reject correction, will you blame God?. Don't forget that God is also a just God. If He condones evil, then He's not being just. The main point however is, you are a product of the breath of God, very unique and distinct with emotions and reasoning faculties. That is a living spirit. So if the raw material of your spirit is made by God's breath. The question is, can you destroy the breath of God?. Now, God owns everything in the universe, it's His house so to speak. Now just like us, anything dirty and unworthy, we toss into the dustbin. Liken hell fire as the dustbin of everything not in tune or unacceptable to God. When you go to a major dumping site, do you see fire there?. This is just my own human explanation.

budaatum:
My dear Primesky, this is not a thread about whether there is god or not, and if I introduced that fact in this thread, apart from stating that I am an atheist, please accept my apology for derailing!

Knowledge is never a waste, Prime, and it does matter whether one believes it or not. If you believe the knowledge you have, you will close yourself to opposing information and therefore not learn anymore.

But I'm going to leave you as you are. Promise to look me up on the day please when mud is rubbed in your eye and you eventually see.

Hmm... I pray that like Paul you will encounter God by yourself. There's no need arguing with you. What you Don't know is bigger than you. I will rather not leave you as you are, but I will be praying for you that you will come to the knowledge of Christ Jesus. This is the greatest revelation anybody can have. I earnestly pray you have it.

Emusan:
It's evident that you're the confused one here.....



Like I do say, you people lack the scriptural knowledge about how Bible presented Jesus Christ that's why your teachings have always been forth and back.

As you missed it, Jesus didn't come to earth to prove to anyone that He is God rather to do His Father's will

Meanwhile, I've noticed that you people couldn't phantom when Bible refers to Jesus (NOTE: I used Jesus for simple understanding) before He become part of His own creation and when He finally became part of His own creation.

WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS ABOUT HIM BEFORE HE BECAME PART OF CREATION?
1. He is THE ETERNAL LIFE (NOTE the writer said "THE" 1 John 1:2.....eternal life can't be created
2. His ORIGIN was from TIME INDEFINITE (according to NWT) or as other versions put it "eternity, everlasting, ancient days: which is what the Father claimed by Himself....Mic 5:2
3. "NOTHING was created without Him....John 1:3" which means He's not part of creation.

These three points are enough for now because they are many of them!

These are the Biblical truth that even the disciples of Jesus know that's why person like Thomas can proclaim to Him as "My Lord and my God" and made all early Christians to pray to Him including Steven.

These are the truth that people like Mathetes 130AD, Polycarp(one of the disciples of Apostle John himself) 150AD, Justin Martyr e.t.c believe that made them to call Jesus God.

Mind you, these are early prominent Christian erlders which even your own Organization recognized their teachings and applaud.

A time is coming when I'll teach you people on this forum how Bible made distinguish between when Jesus was not part of creation and when He became part of creation.

Just like your organization admitted in their publication when they were trying to prove that "I and my father are one" isn't meant Jesus is God. it read "Well, Jesus is saying that he has powers that the Jews believe belong to God alone. For example, regarding the “sheep” he said: “I give them everlasting life,” which is something humans cannot do. (John 10:28 ) Jesus: the way, the truth, and the life; subtopic: one with the father, but not God, pg. 188 https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/jesus/ministry-in-judea/not-equal-to-god/#?insight[search_id]=0605e742-3d9b-464e-a79f-0d0892d0847c&insight[search_result_index]=0

You can see your organization actually know that many things that Biblical writers applied to Jesus are actually what we know ONLY GOD POSSESES but in other to keep themselves confused the more they later said in the next text that "....The Jews are overlooking the fact that Jesus has openly admitted that he received authority from his Father"

Lastly, I asked you does it mean Jesus denied being God in John 10:30 or not? because you didn't answer it.

May the Lord have mercy on OneJ. The statement that I said Jesus is the Father is totally false!. Why lie in an attempt to defend yourself?. Misinterpretation has always been a barrier with Jws. May the Lord open the eyes of people like oneJ just as He has done for many other former Jws.

God bless you Emusan for clearly explaining the matter to him. The truth can never be denied.

MuttleyLaff:
C'mon now Primesky, stay focused
and avoid or steer clear of old wives' tales

You see why I don't say these things?. No body will believe it, or few persons will accept it.

My dear, this is not made up alright?. What you see on Hollywood movies are not just fictional creations. They're real!. Oh please believe me. They're real as real!. Subliminal programming of the mind is going on, even with cartoons!.

You have no idea what's going on in the world you live in. If you sleep and wake the next day, it's a big miracle. You need to give God thanks. God keeps us and has put restrictions until the time. Have you not read it in the bible?. One of the greatest lie the devil has told is to make people believe he doesn't exist.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

My dear, this is what is keeping them from going full scale. God restricts them because of His love for us. But if we reject His truth and ways, then He will back off!. But His children will be secured. Please, what ever you do, don't joke with this times we're living in!.

Get close to God, I assure you, nothing will take you by surprise. The secrets of the Lord is with them that fear Him. He reveals hidden things. This is not my pride. My pride is Jesus Christ. Yea, it's all about Him.

OneJ:
Prime sky,U come dey copy & paste wetin U no fit understand.
U & these ntgreek people , all of una dey confused. The only true God, Jehovah (Yahweh) is not a God of confusion 1 Cor14:33


Pls see the proof below: Make I quote wetin U done copy & paste.

"in other words,contrary to the thought that 'since there is no definite article used here it could belittle the fact of the Word being 'God', the fact that the word 'God'is used first in the sentence actually shows some emphasis that this Logos (Word) was infact God in its nature" ( Jesus is a spirit being, just like God his Father. ).

" However,since (John 1:1c) does not have the definite article , it does indicate that this Word was not the same person as the Father God..".

The Trinitarian folks are a very confused bunch. The bitter truth is very obvious- their doctrine, although popular , is a man made fallacy built on the fraudulent corruption of God's word, the Bible since the 4th century CE.

Here is the gospel truth (John 20:30,31; 3:16 Matt16:13-17. 1 Cor15:24,28. 11:1,3. John17:3).
Pls accept it with a humble heart.
Shalom

Please, can somebody help me ask OneJ, what he is saying?. Why are you confusing yourself?. You have a verse with you, explain it and you're saying something else.

1. Oga, tell us why Jesus whom you deceptively call 'a god', is given a name equal with the Father?.

1.Tell us Mr OneJ, is Jesus Christ a true God or not?.

budaatum:
My "beliefs" affect absolutely nothing Primesky, my knowledge does. I have found that I, and just about everybody, believe the things that we do because we actually have no knowledge whatsoever about what we claim. If we did have knowledge about it, we would say "I know", and not "I believe".

There is a rather very simple way of converting knowledge to belief. One just has to do some research to acquire knowledge. Unfortunately, many are way too lazy to do the work involved so they just accept what they are told and regurgitate it without actual facts or with the lamest of evidence to support their beliefs. It is these people who are referred to as those who build their houses where the winds would blow them away, and those who store up their wealth where moths would eat it. But I bet you would claim those analogies apply more to me, the unbeliever. And I am certain I can not compel you to consider that you could be wrong. You most likely believe I am the antichrist, and by doing as I suggest, I lead you to hell. That is the power your beliefs have over you. You beliefs stop you from considering what ever contradicts the beliefs you so dearly hang on to..

I've checked the Greek on this subject and presented what I found. To begin with, the word "theos" is not from the earliest texts but a transliteration of the Greek. A "transliteration is a type of conversion of a text from one script to another", and in transliterating the Greek Scripture an interpretation was imposed on it either in error or intentionally. Considering the Greek of Scripture is not the Greek of today, this was inevitable. In it's original form, it just about makes very little sense as I've shown in my post on the subject.

If the original had been clear on the divinity of Jesus, there wouldn't have been the constant arguments about it going on even before he died. But there are, and a person who wishes to know, as opposed to believing whatever pleases them, can go do some research and study to determine, or at least, learn about it. But that is not what a religious believer would do, being so vested in what they believe. You clearly show this error when you claim "the Bible is the authority". I beg to differ. I would claim the Holy Spirit is of greater authority. It does after all hold precedence over the Bible. And it is said to give the ability to discern.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading this thread, considering the evidence and arguments presented. It's not often one gets to read such intelligent stuff as this on here so I thank you for your effort and time.

Knowledge is a waste if you choose not to believe. Knowledge will make sense to you when you believe and accept it as being factual and true. The challenge you will probably have is the fact that you haven't had a personal encounter with God himself. Saul was so brutal and cruel working against what he called a sect. As far as He was concerned, this so called Christians were mad!, why?, they acted against what he believed, as a result, He set out to destroy them. Everything changed the day he encountered Jesus Christ personally, everything else he thought he knew was pushed aside. And he became even more committed than the very apostles.

It will be very difficult for anybody, scientists, devil or whoever to tell me that God doesn't exist, I know Him for a person, and it shocks me to my bones when people say God doesn't exist. My respect for him is boundless, the fact that He is so powerful, and yet very patient, taking insults, abuse and all sorts of nonsense. But that won't continue for ever. See, God can wipe out the whole planet earth in one second, not minute!. I doubted it when He said it at first, until He showed it to me. Then I feared Him and respected Him the more. His love is simply amazing and patient. Let's not play with fire!

I have had several exposures to what Otem is spreading around as truth. I can tell you, I just managed to escape by the grace of God. Those guys are demons, not just aliens. They have amazing technological instrument the world can not imagine.

They have every possible explanation for everything. Far more wiser than we are, why not?, the devil have been around before us. They know what tickles our interest, they can predict our reaction., mesmerise our visions. But it's all lies!. Mind-blowing wonders and mesmerizing occurrences will come. I can't say certain things here because it's not yet time. But you need the bible, you need to read it very carefully and thoroughly. The truth any believer has of it now, could be what makes the difference in those days to come not too far from now. But the good news is, we, God's children will rout them in the name of Jesus Christ. That's why they want to first of all disconnect us from Him. Read about failed alien abductions. There's power in the name of Jesus Christ. My simple question is, why are they harvesting the eggs of women and the sperm of men, what do they want to create. Food for thought. I'm not saying trash. Common guys, we need Jesus Christ now!. Something deep is going on.

I can tell you, that a time is coming when man will be helpless over certain things, then these liars will come, pretending to help us, having disconnected many from God, but that's the beginning of terror. The shocker is that they won't look like what we normally see. They look refined. The truth is, they are already here. Full appearance won't come until the set time. So, the likes of Otem will increase. The day I saw their fake Jesus and read his own version of the bible, I knew from that day, that man is In for a huge deception. Deception so great you can kill as a Christian to defend it as being true. But God also warned us about it. That is why I keep an eye on that Otem of a guy. That thing he's doing is not a joke, it's apart of the plan to deceive man.

For you saying there's no God, it becomes even easier to mess you up, because you have absolutely no defense. If the so called Christians will so greatly fall, how about the non believer?.

RuthlessLeader:
Who is a myth.


I don't believe. Come beat me


Fixed.


Fixed again.


Why is it so hard for you to accept this. Atheism is the LACK of belief in a god. I also don't have a religion. So I hope you understand.


How many amputees have you cured? Have you gone to sambisa forest to preach? Please stop being absurd.

If Jesus is a myth then you don't exist!. But since RuthlessLeader is chatting and moving, Jesus Christ is real, beyond every reasonable doubt!. You were planned, designed, and brought forth into this world by the very one you call a myth, how ignorant!. No one person is a mistake. The Lord made us all and He desires that we all be saved from the deceit of Satan which tends to eternal death. Your choice makes the difference.

Now since you believe to come from nothing, which isn't the case by the way, I want you to explain to us how everything came about?. How did laws of nature come about, who set them?. How did things in general have their unique, beautiful and variant designs?. Was it all by chance, or was it all just a big bang?!.

How did you get your brain and life?. Please tell us since we don't know according to you. Can you discredit the the truth below?.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

TATIME, please don't be economical with the truth, and claiming to be doing away with old Greek dogma.

Hell fire exist as much as heaven exists. By teaching otherwise, you are not telling the truth!. The origin of your position is not from the bible neither is it from the old Greek letters. The originator of the no hell fire doctrine is the founder of your religion. Charles Teze Russell, your founder was born a baptist or say he was a baptist believer, later he became uncomfortable with the teaching about hell fire, and for that decided to quit and establish his own sect. To butress his ideology, he had to twist and amend the scriptures, an act that continued for centuries just to perpetuate a man's self impulse. Since then, several verses of scriptures have been bastardized by your group through out of context explanations, change of meaning, additions to the original text and other doctrinal murder and fraud has continued over the years. The sad thing is some of you the adherent do not know these and many more.

If you say there is no literal fire, then you are indirectly calling both Jesus Christ and the bible liars!. Jesus spoke about hell fire on several occasions. Tell me TATIME, will you believe your dead founder or would you believe Jesus Christ and the bible?. It's good you tell yourself the truth and tell others too the same.


Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Take a look at the last scripture above. Then see the one below. Was God talking trash in Deuteronomy or was Jesus speaking in tongues in the new testament?. My dear, JW is built on falsehood and fasle teachings, you need to research it carefully and exit. Forget about the tongues that will wag. Look at this one below.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

RuthlessLeader:
No.


Are you his bodyguard? What makes him so esteemed.


By engage I mean confront. But I guess it is because you are still thinking of how to propose to butterflyleo that your mind went to marriage.


There is no satanic atheism. I don't believe in God, nor do I believe in satan


Which atheist training manual? Your madness has increased oo.


Lies. you have no concrete proof. And now you are insulting your intelligence.


Madness is serious oo


Another lie.


How did women enter this?

I do not count my self so highly, I am a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ.

RuthlessLeader, you must understand that there isn't a middle line in faith and believe. It's either you believe or you don't!.

Life itself teaches us that. We have good and evil, light and darkness, day and night, life and death, heaven and hell. Not believing in God is not believing in anything.

If you don't believe in God, you definitely believe in something, it's just that you don't have a grip of what that is. But there's no middle line.

Jesus is the way!.

0temSapien:
It's there in the book of B.C.E revealled by the gods and you and I saw clearly in that reference that Yahweh committed a crime of stealing. Why can't you just admit that your god is a thief and move on

Psalms 24:1 The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

The biggest thief in the whole universe and the Father of lies is Satan and his fallen angels, who you Otem now represent. The earth belongs to the Lord.

This is a case of a thief accusing another, so as to hide his identity. What a shame.

You will fai....l!