₦airaland Forum

PAPA AFRICA: wow thanks is there a picture of this anywhere?

The practice is still very well alive. In the villages people still polish the surfaces of their floors.

Well this one no funny and no be me e happen to. There was a boy we used to play ball with on the street and he was my junior in secondary school. His name was banjo adaranijo, he was a cousin/nephew to the present chairman of orile agege lcda.
Na so we hear say say the boy don die. He and his gang used to go and rob pple inside molue, unfortunately/fortunately a patrol vehicle was behind them as they were robbing the molue around ile-zik busstop, the rest of the gang quickly jumped down but he was the one collecting the money and cud not escape on time, he was caught and shot immediately by the police, that was the end of banjo.

Years later, his younger brother too monsuru adaranijo alias 'settle me' was caught stealing from women going to buy bread early in the morning at the bakery. They used to rape and rob these women, the opc rounded up 4 of dem and burnt dem at orile agege, it was in the papers then.
The chairman himself was a gentle guy he used to be a shoe-maker and repairs our shoe, even after he became chairman his shop was still operating for a while.

Another one I had was when I was doing my 3 months industrial attachment with a civil engineering firm at Jibowu yaba. I wud board a molue very early at orile agege to osodi. Then from osodi to yaba.

One thing that used to happen where we enter the yaba molue is that, sitting is 30naira, while standing is 20 naira. many of us in the standing committe go don come as molue starts loading, but we no go enta but stay for ground dey watch until the last seat is occupied.
After dat na die o, come see rushing, elbows, knees, headbutt, pushing as all of us wey don dey wait struggle to enter for standing. Am not sure there is any rushing in lagos that was as brutal as that then. If u don't make it that means u have to go and wait again for the next molue to load sitting finish b4 u come start to dey rush for standing again. That was not an option for my agege-brougt-up self, I dey always make my own molue.

On dis day I made my molue and retained my place as a honourable member of d standing committee. Na so I go see wan girl wey be like younger sister to me comfortably seated just beside me, na so d girl greet me bros good morning, I said hello back to her. When the conductor come dey come to collect money, wetin bros go do now, na so me wey struggle to enter standing come dey pay for girl wey sit down comfortably.Bros must not fall himself hand.

That afternoon, na fufu with no meat I chop. After that day, aside from the struggle I gats to make sure I no stand near person wey I know, make wetin happen no go happen again.

Another one I had was during the Ife Modakeke war. I decided to do some runs before so that I can have some cash before we resume.
So I would go and collect newspapers very early in the morning at iyana-ipaja and then go and sell it at u-turn busstop after abule-egba on the way to sango. I had my table in front of that big brown house at the busstop close to the express.

After dropping off all their persengers, molues coming from osodi/iyanapaja/abule-egba wud turn at U-turn empty for a return trip. Na so one afternoon after packing my unsold dailies and weeklys, I enter dis molue make e carry me turn so dat I won't need to cross the express with my load. The driver and condutors were not aware as I just hang for the back door.
Instead of the molue to turn, the thing just continue to dey go towards ogun state, and me dey go back my house for Agege. I no fit shout 'owa' as den no know say I enta and den no go even because of me stop.
Na so I dey stranded the thing dey go, I noticed that anytime the driva wants to change gear, the molue speed go reduce small, na so I say I go time am, wen next he clutches down to change gear, I go jump down.
Na so as he clutch down wan change gear, na so I jump down with my load inside ghana must go, na so I jump down run with speed for express kirikata kirikata make I no fall. All the people beside the road were shocked and were cursing me 'aah omo yi, o fe ku ni' 'were o fe para e'.I think That was the most foolhardy thing I have ever done. Though I did not fall, but I got the mother of all headaches for my madness.
The most annoying thing was that about 500 metres away the molue now made a uturn to the other side, entered a petrol station, then passed me by the roadside while I was still holding my head.

Molue na learning school o.
I remember one day I sat down on that very long last seat at the back, we got to a bus stop and there was this man that had an envelope filled with money in his back pocket. Then there was another guy trying to pick d money, na so I go be (jump), I shouted aah aah owo e owo e (ur money ur money). The guy being pickpocketed just grabbed his pocket and stopped the process and the thief jumped, unknown to me he had an accomplice in the molue, as the second guy was about to get down, na so d guy slap my face, that kain slap wey dey cover the whole face not the ear. Men I saw stars,my eyes red, d man I alerted was too shocked to say anything to me.
Na other perssengers come dey tell me pele pele, I no fit even talk. Nonetheless, the conductor still collect en pay, notin concern with good samaritan.

The text quoted is a greek text. It is claimed that ΩΣ, 'as if'was in d original greek text but was omitted when translating into english.

The phrase appeared towards the end of the third line in that greek text.

gsalvatore: I believe In Praying for the dead, I don't know if its due to what I was taught while growing up or how if its how am wired though it doesn't sound logical

NB: there are some books not added to the bible that sheds more light on this.

That is why they were not added, because they teach alien ideas and heresies. Books not added were not inspired.

Almustpha as a military man served his commander, so did all the other military men under abacha plus all the civilians in the agencies. If mustapha did anything against the constitution, then d onus lies on d prosecution to get him with hard evidence, so if the people with vested interest and power to get him could not after 14 yrs, then I might well say they were wrong all along. They should go and look for more evidenceor go find the real person.
Faseun seems not to have any reason to do this, I don't see what he would gain politically or financially from this, so his motives might just be altruistic and maybe he is right in all this.

Once politics is involved in any matter in Nigeria the truth can never come out or if it does it would have been overwhelmed with so much lies that you can't be sure of what you have.

Bola ige died under obasanjos nose and no one has found guilty afenifere did not go after Obj, fu

Elijahs chariot was said to have been taken into heaven, aside from d reference work I posted earlier, the hebrew word translated as heaven has also been translated skies, clouds. The bible mentioned birds of the heaven and of course we know the heaven there is just skies. Then th planetary bodies have also been called heavens in so many places.

Then let me talk a bit about the letter of Elijah.
Before Elijah was taken by God, almost all the prophets knew that Elijah would soon be gone. They kept pestering Elisha about it. But he did not know where or how he would be taken, that was why he insisted on following Elijah thruout.
Now when he was taken he saw Elijah been taken into the skies until he could see him no more, the sons of the prophet also knew he had been taken by God thru the skies, but they said they would go and search for him in case he was dropped off on some montain or a remote (2kings 2v16)area and retrieve him. Elisha saw no need for that, the prophets knew he was taken but did not believe he was taken to heaven.
It was simply a change of leadership, Elijah had served faithfully and it was time for a young and enrgetic man to take over.
Then let's look at the chronology of events as it relates to the letter.
Elijah was taken at the end of Ahaziahs reign soon after Jehoram1 his son took ova. WhenJehoshaphat and Jehoram1 wanted to go to war and they asked which prophet was in isreal, it was Elisha that was mentioned. So by now Elijah had been taken. But Years later in the fifth year of Jehoram1,Jehoram2 the son of Jehoshaphat started to rule 2kings 8v16, and he killed off his brothers and kept doing whjat was bad in Gods eyes, it was these bad things that he did after taking over from his Good father Jehoshaphat that Elijah who has been taken many many years ago wrote to him about. Studying the chain of events would see clealy that the letter of Elijah to this king Jehoram2 happened several yrs after his leaving Elisha.
Philip and other people have also been caught by the spirt and taken elsewhere too.

I am going to paste a reference work about the greek language in which that elijah passage was written and how it should have been translated.

It is true, that some of us –both of the laity and of the Clergy- have not observed with the appropriate attention the relative passage of the Old Testament, in which is mentioned the ascension of the Prophet Elijah.

If one studies this passage carefully, one will notice there is a tiny, 2-letter (Greek) word «ΩΣ» (=as if) , which will greatly facilitate their rationalizing, since the dogmatic aspect found in the Dedicational Hymn for this Saint is usually rejected by them, i.e. «The second Precursor to the Presence of Christ - Elijah the glorious…»

And here is the text of the event in question:

“Και εγένετο αυτών πορευομένων, επορεύοντο και ελάλουν (Ηλίας και Ελισσαιέ)· και ιδού άρμα πυρός και ίπποι πυρός και διέστειλεν ανά μέσον αμφοτέρων και ανελήφθη Ηλιού εν συσσεισμώ ΩΣ εις τον ουρανόν”

 (And it came to be, while they were walking, as they walked and spoke (Elijah and Elisha), behold, a chariot of fire and horses of  fire parted the two of them, and Elijah was swept up, in an upheaval, AS IF into the heavens)  (Kings  4, 1:11).

The expression «AS IF into the heavens» is clear evidence that he did not actually ascend INTO heaven.  However, many people have been misled and have incorrectly interpreted this text, because they have read a paraphrased Old Testament text, and not the actual text.  The paraphrased text says: “and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven”, proof that this little word «ΩΣ» carries the potential to solve the issue and to prove that Elijah did not go up, into heaven.

I have explained why I believe the lazarus story to be a parable and Jesus does not begin all his parables like a parable sometimes he just starts it straight, like d parable of d son dat was killed. Then I mentioned dat it was too similar to the greek pagan hell and that it was adapted by the jews and made into a jewish fable, Jesus used d fable to teach dem a lesson, even though he is not advocating paganism just like he did in the story of the dishonest slave who cheated his master to curry favors from his masters debtors.

olumyde: To all of you, especially frosbel, who argue that eternal torment is a punishment that is more than any sin a man can commit, and therefore it can't be from God cos its "not fair". Pls answer this. Gehazi collected silver and cloth, and his punishment was leprosy for him and his descendants (2 Kings 5:26-27). Is the judgement fair according to your judgement? Was it from "the God of the bible" or "the god of this world"? I'm waiting...

The punishment of Gehazi was based on (Exodus 20:5, 6). You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me; 6 but exercising loving-kindness toward the thousandth generation in the case of those who love me and keep my commandments.

So it was fair. That principle of punishment was used by God sometimes to punish the israelites. But note the concluding part, he says he shows love to the thousandth generation in the case of those who love him. You can see that in punishment the weight is far far less than in reward. In that verse is a ratio 1:250 for punishment and reward. But in the hell and heaven scenario is a ratio 1:1.

The best place we should have known about eternal punishment of fire should have been at the garden of Eden, the punishment of Adam's sin was death and in case he does not know what death means, God explain from where you came you will return, for dust you are and to dust you will return. Adam was not from hell

olumyde: @all, frosbel truthislight rabzy and co. are always on this thread eager to convince ppl that God will not punish them as bad as they think. I can't count how many times i've put up this my conclusion above. They've always avoided it. They can't discuss it. Thats why i don't have anything more to say to them. Save yourself the stress.

I have not always been on this thread nor eager to convince, i believe we are discussing Gods word together, i may not be able to convince you but i am giving reasons for my own convictions and also dispel questions about my convictions.
As to the above passage, it is obviously a parable if one should examine the details of the story. first let me start by stating that it was not an original story, it was based on a jewish ancient writing called Gemara Babylonicum, and the jews themselves adapted the story from the hades of the greeks. If you are familiar with greeko-roman mythology, then you will see that the similarities are too many.

Then looking at the parable itself, if it is true then several parts will be inconsistent with the scriptures or would be impossible.
First the parable never said that the rich man was a bad man, it only said he was clothed in nice and expensive stuffs and eats well, i dont think that is enough for someone to lavish in torment eternally, neither was lazarus said to be a good man, he was only a poor beggar who sits by the gates and is licked by the dogs, that in itself is not a proof of righteousness.

Then the story says lazarus died and was taken to the bosom of Abraham. Bosom can mean laps, chest of arm fold of a person. it did not say he went to heaven it says the bosom of Abraham. Jesus said no one has ascended into heavens except him who just came. So i can say Abraham was not in heaven. Then even if he was in heaven, are good people ferried into abraham's hands, is that the reward for faithfulness, why not davids arms, or that of moses or Isaac or Noah. Now the rih man died and was in hades.

Now from Hades/Hell the man called/prayed to Abraham, if its a call that means it is a shouting distance from hell to heaven and if it a prayer, the jews dont pray to their patriachs, they all pray to God, so why would he just pray to Abraham, and why should Abraham answer, has he be given the duty of answering prayers which is only something done by God. Does Abraham have the power to alleviate peoples suffering in hell?

If the man needs respite why ask for a drop of water, how does a drop of water quench the thirst of a spirit being and wud even a pail of water do the Job. Does spirit beings have fingers and tongues like us as indicated in the story? Then also Abraham answered that he wud have sent Lazarus but for the big gulf between both places, so does Abraham have the power or authority to send righteous saints like himself errands, then so if not that God put the big gulf or hole, spirit beings would have been crossing freely between both realms. From the parable its like people from heaven would have wanted to be crossing to hell of their own free will but God now put the gulf so that they cant do that. Does that sound plausible or does it make any sense.

Then when the mas asked that his brothers should be helped, Abraham answered that they have Moses and the Prophets and they should listen to them, so where in all the writings of Moses and the prophets did they tell anyone about the sufferings in hell and how miserable the place is.

The Jews never have a concept of such hell until they were exposed to the teachings of greeks which was popularized and propagated by plato and his disciples. In a bid to join the trend and be accepted by the enlightened world the Jews started adapting the teaching of plato into their systems of beliefs.

The parable was to show a change in the spiritual circumstances of the Jesus disciples and the pharisees which woud take place after the death of christ.

Fire has been used figuratively in the bible in many ways, it has been associated with love, passion,anger, judgement, the word of God was a fire jeremiah cud not keep inside, it has been associated with zeal, Gods angels are a consuming fire, it has symbolized cleansing and refining, it also has connoted testing, a test by fire shows the quality we made up as xtians, suffering for righteousness has also been refered as burning by peter. There are several other symbolism.
But the context in which we are talking about is everlasting fire which symbolizes total destruction with no hope of ressurection.

To further buttress the use of eternal or everlasting fire as a symbol of annihilation. The bible mentioned that the fire of sodom and gomorah and that of edom will burn forever. It says it will never be extinguised. Isaiah 34v9-10. Jude mentioned that sodom and gomorah undergo the punishment of everlasting fire.
But we all know these cities did not keep burning forever but they were destroyed forever and were never rebuilt. It was a total annihilation for those cities and that is how their fire is still burning till date.

Let me talk a little about gehenna. The meaning is the valley of the sons of hinnom. It is a valley very close to jerusalem and it was used by the Idolatrous kings of Judah to burn their sons as sacrifice to the God molech. The practice was so disgusting to God, that he said in Jeremiah that he never commanded them to burn their sons in fire and that such a thing has never come up in his mind. Jer.7v31, 32v35
Then several prophets prophesied that the israelites will die in their thousands in that same valley and their carcasses will litter the place. It was prophesied datit wud serve as a place for mass disposal of dead bodies.
Eventually it became a place where all sorts of disgusting things are dumped and also the bodies of people not fit for burial such as criminals. Sulphur and brimstone was always added to keep the fire going and places where the fire can't get to, worms and other putrefying agents will devour the flesh of such carcasses. The worms will die but they never finish because others will replace dem and the fire is always rekindled to burn of their wastes and whatever else is thrown there.
It became a place of annihilation and destruction and the fire never quenches. It is a place of complete destruction.
The israelites believe in the resurrection and that is why they call their graves memorial tombs because they believe they are in Gods memory and wud be called back to life.
But anybody whose carcass was thrown into gehenna is deemed unfit to be buried or remembered by God, the worst of people are dumped there. So in the minds of the israelites the judgement of gehenna is a judgement of annihilation with no hope of coming back.

This is the comment on mark 9v48 by a catholic work El evangelio de marcos volume 2.
The phrase is taken from isaiah. There d prophet shows the two ways carcasses were usually destroyed, putrefaction and incineration. The juxtaposition in the text of maggots and fire reinforces the idea of destruction. Both destruction forces are described as permanent I.e is not quenched, does not die, there is simply no way to escape them. In this image, the only survivors are the maggot and the fire not man and they both annihilate anything that falls within their power. Hence, this is not a description of everlasting torment but one of total destruction which as it prevents ressurection from occuring is tantamount to final death. Fire is then a symbol of annihilation.

There is nowhere in the scriptures where it was said that angels fell before adam. The scriptures said satan was the father of d first lie and that lie was sold to adam and eve. Then in the punishment meted out in the garden, all the culprits were addressed. There is nothing that indicates that as at then angels were involved in the rebellion. The earliest mention of angels rebelling was at the time of noah.

And to support what was said above by jaman. Jesus said in john 12v31 that there is a judging of d world and the ruler of this world will be cast out. That's an event for the future.the revelation of John was a confirmation of the prophesy. t

You have gone far deeper. Okay, when I said fell, I meant when they sinned against God and was out of favour from God. The one u cited is what took place later and it resulted into the physical banishment of satan to the earth with no ability to enter or interfere in the goings-on in heaven.

Satan fell before adam, the angels fell in the time of noah. Whether others fell at other periods, the bible never revealed. So what do u want to draw from that.

Peter used chains, jude used prison, peter also used prison in another verse, all these indicates a state of helplessness of not being able to change your condition or state. It does not mean they are held in chains somewhere. And I have explained why peter used tartarus for his audience. Titans were fallen godsn justlike the fallen angels, they were in physical dense darkness, the angels were in spiritual darkness, titans were cut off from the olympus family, the angels were totally alienated from Gods heavenly family. That is where the parallelism ends.

I have stated clearly with bible verses and explanations why it is not a place but a condition. If it is a place and they are under eternal bonds and torment, how did they escape and possess pple, why did they ask Jesus not to torment them, why did Jesus not send dem bak to tartarus. If they are under bondsand torment in tartarus, what other judgement was peter and jude say they were waiting for, why did they ask Jesus why he wants to torment them before the appointed time.

You have quoted the right wrong source, because it is actually the platonic teachings enforced by hellenization that first corrupted judaism and centuries later xtianity. That is the tartarus of the greeks and that also explains why the hell of the greeks were superimposed into d hell of the later xtians.
Peter only used the word as a vehicle he was not talking about the titans nor trying to bring to his listerners minds all that took place in the tartarus of the greeks. The titans were in a place of darkness, shame and alienation from the gods of olympus. He just used the name as vehicle to carry such thots and that is where the similarity ends

superior1: Can you read those 2 verses (Jude 5 and 6) you are trying to explain gently this time around and link with 2 Peter 2:4 and make another attempt at explaining them to be your definition of Tartarus?

I have pasted them to help you avoid the trouble of looking for them

Jude 5 and 6
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day

2 Peter 2:3-4
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment

According to you.
Tartarus(hell) is not a place, it is a spriritual condition of total alienation from the light of God and debasement as outcasts from the heavenly family

frosbel he agreed it is a place and not a condition)

1. 2 Peter 2;4 refers to a holding place for fallen angels. So not sure how this relates to our discussion.
2. Gehenna which Jesus used often refers to the lake of fire

There you go now

Bros I never said tartarus and hell are the same.ihave explained what I believe tartarus is based on biblical experiences.translating tartarus as hell is wrong and jude clearly shows that there is a greater judgement they are waiting for which is greater than the tartaric condition they are.

Jude verse 6 also shows dat the eternal bonds of dense darkness they are in right now is not their real punishment but that they are awaiting the judgement of the great day.
In fact d demons in legion asked Jesus not to torment them and also not to order them to go into d abyss which shows dat they were presently not under any torment neither were they in the abyss. The judgement of the abyss wud come later for a 1000 yrs and then finally the judgement of the lake of fire.

As explained by Jude 6, these angels did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place in order to mislead men. They were theirfore cut off from Gods spiritual light and became debased demons destined for destruction.
Paul called them wicked spirits in 'heavenly places' because they exercise a rule of darkness as evil spirits.
They are not under any torture rather they are the ones tormenting many pple. Jesus encountered a number of them, evidence shows dat they are always seeking pple to infect and possess. Like the one called legion, the one dat wud go and get 7 worst demons and return back to d person it onced possessd and also d ones dat requested they be given permission to enter d swines. These examples shows that they are in a debase condition and have become totally diabolic and are just waiting for destruction.

superior1: Sir, it is not just a holding place o, it goes beyond that, infact Apostle Peter use that exact word so that the Gentiles he was writing to will understand exactly what he was saying. They are Greeks and hence understand what Tartarus is all about.
It is a pit, an abyss
A place of torture and suffering
It is an underground filled with darkness. God is love but when those angels messed up, he didn't give them the salvation offer we mankind have but send them straight away to Tartarus and they have been there for God knows how many millennium now. God is not moved by human definition of sadism.

What if we can prove that Tartarus Peter mentioned was the same Gehenna?

Tartarus is not a place, it is a spriritual condition of total alienation from the light of God and debasement as outcasts from the heavenly family

redsun: Seven thousand naira is about 30 pounds a month. That is not bad for three bedroom apartment. Electricity cost money,but your problem is that you hardly get light.

The bills you pay should ne in proportion with the money you earn. If you don't earn enough,you don't need three bedroom house.

Yeah we hardly get the light, I still have to run my gen, another issue with the bill is that the same amount is given to a whole house that has upwards of 40 to 50 occupants. Houses that have up to 4 or more 3 bedroom flats are given the same amount if they all share a metre.

My grandfather was a reknown hunter in my village in Edo, my mom tells me stories of python swallowing people. I just checked out the site mythbusters and they said it is possible for the snake to swallow a grown man if the person has passed out. and I remember my mother saying when the snake coils around a person, it stretches and breaks all the bones in the person before swallowing, if dat is the case and the sholder bones are broken then the person could be folded and swallowed and while stretchiung d person and breaking the bones the person can easily pass out or die

deleteme: Pls am sorrry oooo, where is the source of this info, cos i just asked a member of the Power Committeee in NA and he denied it.

oga u no dey pay nepa bill. just get any nepa for d month of june from a neighbor and u will see d evidence gadagba.

pple using prepaid metres are better off than us whose metres have been deemed irredeemable. we get crazy bills, i am charged an average of 6000 monthly plus their foolish service charge of 750 am now doomed to about7000 for a 3 bedroom flat, I don't even use ac nor oven.