₦airaland Forum

amor4ce:
OP, your account of that discussion is the first time I've come across such an argument from a Yoruba person. My opinion is that the Yoruba and Benin peoples may have migrated together to this part of Africa and then at some point went their separate ways. I see the Yoruba and Edo as brothers hence the close cultural relationships including the request by the Edo for a Yoruba King/Judge. The arguments about the origin of Oduduwa and Oranmiyan and the Edo monarchy are to me based on unnecessary ascendancy sentiments. As for those claiming that Oduduwa is Edo, they should consider the use of the word "Odu" by the Yoruba even as prefixes in many Yoruba names today. Are they saying that the bearers of those names are Edo?

I share the same opinion that most of us in Nigeria migrated from the same area over time, or parted along the way. I see all humans as brothers especially those that share boundaries and most likely are closely related.
Asking for a prince from some other people to come and rule over you would need more than being closely related especially if you have not been previously conquered by the said people. I have not heard of it happening amongst even the yoruba dynasties, where possibly the Alaafin family would request that a prince from Ibadan or Ife should come and rule over them, when there are other royal princes, that could continue the lineage.

So it would be a very rare occurrence, the most likely solution would be to take from another royal line of the same people, possibly brothers of the king, uncles etc. But if there is a chance that the son's king is alive somewhere. The logical step would be to try and get him back.

The Benin Story said his name was Ekalerderhan not Oduduwa, So the Odu in those names could be an all Yoruba source.

[quote author=Inked_Nerd link=topic=870007.msg10199496#msg10199496 date=1329295829]
You saying that during most if not all same-sex acts there is an innate desire, feeling, a longing to be pënetratëd or to pënetratë is highly untrue. I could have understood if you had said 'some' but to say most, is highly unfounded. I know many lesbians and gay men who can disprove this belief of yours yet I don't go around saying that just because those few enjoy sex without pënëtration that it dictates a good majority of the population. Can you please show me how you came to such a conclusion?[/quote]knowing some lesbians or gay who don't want it does not mean its not so, they might be lying (am not saying they are), or they might be some of those few. Have you tried sampling also those that love p.enetration and see the statistical proportion.

There has been reports of predominant use of fingers, toys in most gay sex. Gay sex on the internet are rife with the use of these aids. These would necessary mean that it is desired.

Moreso, sexologists have talked a lot about G.spot in women, which is said to be internal, if that is the case, would it not explain why most women would want to be stimulated there regardless of sex.ual orientation.

kambili190:
And for those who compare humans to animals. Homosexuality exists in the animal kingdom. So it'd nt unnatural.
If you refer to the Bible, know that you have no right to throw stones at others!

I would say that homosexuality is unnatural strictly based on the Bible's view, the Bible said it is an unnatural use of the body.

But its not everybody that believe the Bible has authority over them or over anything.
Am not a scientist nor a psychologist, but it can be said and based on the survival of the fittest and natural self-preservation, there is no way the gene would code itself to naturally extinct itself which would happen with same sex relationship. It would be against the very basis of evolution.

During most if not all same-sex acts there is an innate desire/ a feeling/a longing to be pe.netra.ted or to pe.netrate. This feeling can normally/naturally only be satisfied during heterosexual acts. Am not sure there is any who naturally without any previous traumatic experience not have that tingling desire to be touched inside.

Then going into the animal kingdom (scientist say we a part of the kingdom).

These are some of the things normal animals do:

Mothers eat their babies
They eat faeces
They rape the female species
Goats easily ride their mothers
They eat their species.
They copulate with dead ones.
They are cross-species copulation.
Some females eat their male partners during sex.
Some copulate with their newborns.

Now which of these which is natural to animals can we say is natural to humans. And if any is natural to humans or a particular person or group of people in the society, should they be socially acceptable by all.

Divaifylor:
This gay and lesbian topic is very touchy so I wouldn't like to say much. My question is is homosexuality part of human evolution? For someone like a masai man in Kenya who is still centuries back does d fact dat he can't b gay make any point i.e does it mean dat only d knowledge of d existence of d fact dat 1 can b a gay actually make pple blieve they are gay because I don't blieve one can find a gay person in d Masai 4 example? My opinion on dis issue is evolving and whether or not I am 4 or against I judge no 1,I live by d policy do un2 others as u want them to do un2 u

Its gat nothing to do with Evolution, there have been gays and Lesbianism for thousands of years. Some of these masai herders might have been having it with their Cattles, as some Fulani herders do. So for them to have gays amongst them is highly likely, it is highly likely in any society.

There are boys who have been acting like girls since they were 2yrs and its not because they were bought girly stuff and vice-versa. There are wo/men who have fully developed or partially developed male members and are naturally attracted to other women.
There are some whose husbands have not satisfied them sexually and their best experience has been with another woman maybe in the boarding school, when they hook up with some of these their friends it starts all over again.

The fallen flesh is susceptible to different kinds of emotional, mental and physical variation. 

(Romans 1:24-27) . . .Therefore God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them, 25 even those who exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the One who created, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 That is why God gave them up to disgraceful intimate appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; 27 and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.

Now its not just about sexuality alone or a particular kind of sexuality, its a whole gamut of human deviant behaviour.

There are people who honestly believe they are animals and they act and behave like a particular kind of animal. There was a man who desperately wanted someone to eat him and there was someone who wanted to eat people, both of them met, and he was promptly eaten. He even wanted to participate in the eating himself but he had lost so much blood and was weak.

There are people who derive intimate pleasure from being beaten and there are some who also derive intimate pleasure from eating faeces.

Man has fallen and keeps falling deeper into a quagmire of obnoxious behaviour.
It is either you see yours or such behaviour as wrong and you look for an inner strength or if you are religious, a spiritual strength to break off or you resign and conclude there is little you can do about it and accept yourself that way and tell everyone, your parents, or God,the society or the constitution to buzz off.

Its harder for some to change due to different reasons but the choice is still in our hands.

OP, you want to replace lesbianism with fornication, to God both are sins that requires repentance.

The world's moral compass is bent and its getting worse by the day, People are in court asking for siblings to be legally married, mothers want a right to sleep with their sons, morgue attendants sleeps with corpses (the corpses are not being hurt), married men think it is just impossible to be faithful to a woman (some scientist say we were wired as polygamist).

For me they are all different types of temptations that should be resisted.

@Rosikk

You have said it all. The infrastructure these people met, they razed it to the ground and erected palatial houses for themselves and some spittle for their servants.
They have done their bit, they made us aware that the world has changed, that their own brand of civilization is taking over, they ruled, exploited and we said enough is enough, lets take it from there.

We have not performed well, but at least we are free men.

The Binis never originated from the Yorubas and Vice versa neither did they come from any yorubaland, The link and controversy centres around the monarchy. The fact from both stories is that Oranmiyan - an ife man and son/grandson of oduduwa - fathered a son with a Benin princess, Eweka 1. So the current benin monarchy started from there.

The Benin version says the monarchy is still a continuation of the old Ogiso line, because the prince that ran away Ekalerdehan is the same as Oduduwa and that was why they could allow his son to rule over them.

But whatever which version is right, the Binis pre-dated Oranmiyan, they even predate the Ogiso dynasty. The Yorubas also existed before the coming of Oduduwa. Oduduwa is Unique because he fathered so many royal lineage in Southwest.

^^^^^^^
Seconded man, Some Idiots think they just gave us mirrors and whiskey and we signed off our ancestral lands to them.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=864381.msg10147615#msg10147615 date=1328687574]African Americans have a good chunk of white, native american and other stuff in 'em too.

Culturally have a very tenuous at best connection to the continent of Africa too, imo.

I don't think this is unreasonable[/quote]I don't think its tenuous if people can still identify you as black, after more than 300 years or so of inter-breeding and cross-marrying and your skin color remains predominantly black, that means you are predominantly descended from blacks from Africa.

But all blacks are not necessarily from Africa, i have seen very dark people or black people in India, who i doubt has any or much genetic link to us, and the Australian Aboriginals are blacks from elsewhere according to studies.

PhysicsQED:
lol @ the irony

you wan beat person up sharp sharp and you are wondering why they said we are dangerous, lol.

I love us the way we are, i prefer to be a sharp guy than be a massa massa boy.

O boy, but this is serious oooo, den too try, can you imagine garden eggs!

Jeez one word is never enuf, Okay one  Word, Mutation

Kamali:
I remember what led to the burning of all of Carl's property at Awo then.I remember when Awo boys caught Rogers Makanjuola(Jnr) and his other secret cult members.I remember how prof. Makanjuola(then he was CMD,OAUTH) came to Awo cafe to plead on behalf of his son.I remember him crying and shouting "YOU ARE TORTURING MY SON" at Awo buttery during interogation.I remember the "E KARO SIR,SE EMA FASO" women and their early coming call at FAJ.

I thot there were two sons caught, Rogers junior and Rogers Ben, but it was Rogers Ben was let off.

I have spent the last 5 hours reading thru all these posts. They are too wonderful to be true, and i have to raise my hats to everyone for their friendly banters and never letting this degenerate to some tribal bashing and name-calling despite some prodding.

Does anyone know anything about the reign of the Yoruba kings, Alara and Ajero.

'Ko baje laye Alara, ko baje laye Ajero'. These kings were suppose to have some of the most peaceful reigns.

Kamali:
I came in when BigSam was the president.Then there was the IFE 4 issue in court.Then,i think Carl then Ropo Ewenla,then Vakama and the Legacy.The election of Legacy was very funny,

Bros,

what happened at the Legacy election. I heard about how Ife students burnt Vakama's properties. The same thing happened to Dr. 3As when he went and start the OAU pure water venture, which for me i think was not a bad idea in itself but the DSM boys would not have it.

pcicero:
I was in OAU between 1998 and 2002. Stayed in Angola in year 1. Awo Hall all the way till graduation.
I was active in student union politics. I was a radical but a centre of the left.
Vakama (Victor Akinjo Kolade) was the president of SUG in my first year. We were told that votes from UJCM and other politically naïve students brought him to power. The embargo on Students Unionism had just been lifted after the Tony Fash debacle in 1995. It was during his term that Obasanjo visited after his release from prison in October 98. Obasanjo was asked to prostrate for his anti-students role during his military regime. But Prof. Omole the VC and Vakama saved the day. Vakama later became Special Adviser to Obasanjo on Students and Youth Matters.
Late Bola Ige also came  and we were awed by his erudition. I took the name Cicero after listening to him.
Then Lanre Legacy became the next SUG president. He was a member of DSM. Legacy's words could move mountains. He was the quintessential leader. It was during Legacy's tenure that the killings took place on July 10,1999. I was staying in Awo and had barely left the Kegites coronation at Awo Cafe when the shootings started. I was at New Buka earlier on with friends and some union guys (most of whom were my firends) came to tell us that they heard some cultists were planning to attack. Unfortunately, the usual preemptive raid on suspected student cultists was unsuccessful as they were eager to return to the Kegites gyration at Awo Cafe.
It was sorrow, tears and blood the next day, as the cultists had murdered Afrika (Yemi Iwilade) the then SUG Secretary and other students. The solemn mood and the fear of possible reprisal attacks on suspected cult members led to the closure of the school. Prof. Wale Omole lost his job because some students manipulated him as the possible sponsor of the attacks due to his anti-students stance.

Dr 3As became the next president. He was a member of the Pacesetter political movement (CLO and CDHR) and they had many senior lecturers as patrons. His term was marred by confrontations with Prof. Rogers Makanjuola whom many students had been supporting to take-over as the next Vice Chancellor. Many believed that his closeness to some lecturers who felt bitter about Prof. Makanjuola choice as VC were responsible for the confrontations.

Yinka Sotade (Burkina) was the next SUG president. He is a very close friend. We are still in touch. I contested as the Clerk of the SRC but was persuaded to step down for a friend who was later removed and later supported Charles Ubani (a fellow member of SRC from Arts constituency).
Burkina became unpopular for accepting to serve as a member of a security panel set up by FG. He was also believed to have strayed from the ideals of his political group- DSM (democratic socialists movement). I was one of his few supporters when he was ousted.

I was a secretary of the election petition committee that brought in the next SUG president- Akin Revolution of CWA. It was my final year and I had served as a member of the SRC (students' representatives council) and PRO of the Transport Committee of the Students Union.
I went back for MBA in 2006 and finished in 2008.

I remember the day the whole IFE congress pursued Burkina along road 1, i was just coming from town and i saw this guy running like a madman along the road, then i saw behind him a heaving mass of students pursuing him with equal fervor, men it was a sight. my OAU was a mad school.

Jarus:
Manifesto nights are usually sights to behold. 5000 seater Amphi theatre filled to brim with every space filled. The crowd, the fun, teh fireworks, the politicking, the shouts, till late in the night and the political songs after the manifesto.

Jarus, you political foot soldiers especially from the DSM bloc did a lot of harm of avoidable harm, i did not have time nor patience for most of your rhetorics because i could see thru them and politics for me was just too selfish.
A lot of political violence was caused by DSM, i remember how they beat 'have you eaten' to coma and that was the end of the guy. Nobody heard from him ever since, i think that was the election that brought in Burkina.

2baga:
@ Jarus  how come you start anytin as in anytin abt OAU without startin from the very, very beginning.

i. e. with the school song haba!!!  maka why?

Let us then correct the anomaly: Let us all join in singing the unscrappable GREAT IFE Anthem


GREAT IFE, GREAT IFE, AFRICA'S MOST BEAUTIFUL CAMPUS
CONSCIOUS, VIGILANT, PROGRESSIVE
ALUTA AGAINST ALL OPPRESSION
FORWARD EVER, BACKWARD NEVER
FOR LEARNING AND CULTURE, SPORTS AND STRUGGLE
GREAT IFE, GREAT, I LOVE YOU
(CLAPPING)
THERE IS ONLY ONE GREAT IFE IN THE UNIVERSE
ANOTHER GREAT IFE IS A COUNTERFEIT
GREAT, GREAT GREAT GREAT GREEEEEEEEEEAAAT

Hem-hem, Legally illegal illegally legal, Bukina, Baba Kokoro, Risky Burger and dangerous burger, Alfa Alakara, Se sewa, 40% 60%.

You are HIV carrier, you are HIV carrier, we know you are we are sure you are, wooooooooooo, Shina Peters assisted by Salawa Abeni prostrating and begging AWO boys to forgive him.

The fear of white house is the beginning of wisdom, The Almighty Road 1.

Congratulations OAU, The most wondrous of memories happened there.

cindylee:
Why we no go vote for am? He was cool, intelligent and fine  . And that Saburi guy was too notorious for our liking. The day he won eh, you needed to see Moremi hall! I miss Ife sha.

Do you know diamonds nickname in part one was Toofan. He was caught removing fans from rooms and selling them to others. Na small remain dem for give am ferefe sisi.

Aluta against fees, Aluta sports festival, Aluta Market,  Obele nbe tuubu, Trust Zobo, Zobotiano,

Pit theatre (the best shows of my life was seen here.), Pharmacy pomo buka, Akanseere, Orunmila, Old School, dapson of the homo fame, Have you eaten,  
Se e need e.

What happened to other parts of Old Lagos, what infrastructures were there? Surulere, Mushin, Apapa, Gbagada, Ebute metta, Ijora. All we have seen of old Lagos is Majorly a narrow strip of land where the Government people live and work.

What they did in Lagos is not up to scratch compared to what they were reaping. Why did they not touch other parts of the country? The Colonial masters set up Lagos for a fall. There was no way people from other parts of Nigeria would not besiege Lagos when the only place anything was happening is Lagos.

Old Lagos is nostalgic but that is what old things are suppose to be: Nostalgic.

mathskill:
The richest harvest of gore comes from the books that tell the story of the Children of Israel after their escape from Egypt, as they take over their new land in Canaan. These events are foreshadowed in the book of Deuteronomy, in which God proclaims "I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh" (Deut. 32:42). We then turn to the full SinParty of militarism, enslavement, and race war in the Books of Joshua and Judges. Moses himself reputedly authorized this campaign when he told his followers that, once they reached Canaan, they must annihilate all the peoples they find in the cities specially reserved for them (Deut. 20: 16-18).

Joshua, Moses's successor, proves an apt pupil. When he conquers the city of Ai, God commands that he take away the livestock and the loot, while altogether exterminating the inhabitants, and he duly does this (Joshua . When he defeats and captures five kings, he murders his prisoners of war, either by hanging or crucifixion. (Joshua 10). Nor is there any suggestion that the Canaanites and their kin were targeted for destruction because they were uniquely evil or treacherous: They happened to be on the wrong land at the wrong time.

God is the supreme judge of the universe and his word is final. The reasons he decreed extermination for the canaanites is clearly stated in the Bible.

1. To reward Abraham for his faithfulness, he promised him a great swath of land stretching from the river of egypt to the euphrates river, Gen 15 : 18
2. The Canaanites were uniquely bad, even Archaeologists were disgusted when they discovered the extent of debased practices going on there, that they wondered why God did not destroy them sooner. Because of their wickedness, God decreed an extermination of them,

Deuteronomy 9:5
'5 It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the LORD your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.'

The Israelites were not allowed to co-exist with the Canaanite so that they would not be corrupted, Exodus 23:33.

God also said if the Israelites became as corrupted as the canaanites and refuse to obey his commandments, they would also be exterminated and driven out of the land.

Leviticus 20:22-23
New International Version (NIV)
22 “‘Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. 23 You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them.

Deuteronomy 30:15-20
New International Version (NIV)
15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.
17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

Even before the Israelites ever became a nation, they have been repeatedly cheated and attacked by the Canaanites.
Before the nation of Israel had an Army, there were unprovoked attacks and snares laid for them by the canaanite nations. They even used intimate immorality to lure them to sin, knowing that the God would destroy the Israelites himself if they become corrupt and the moabites nearly succeeded if not for the intervention of Phinehas the son Eleazar and grandson of Aaron.
So the Canaanites knew corruption means destruction and divine retribution from God, but they thought it was not going to be applied to them or that their own gods would save them.

Eventually the Israelites also became corrupt and God's heavy hand also came upon them on several occasions until their way of life, their kingdom, and they were driven out of their land.

Compared to the Canaanites nations, the way and manner the Israelites waged their war was far more humane and civilized.

This story is pure bulls. The most hilarious and totally unbelievable is that his wife tore the Bible and as a result died. That is pure hogwash.

ifyalways:
Over time, I have come to believe abiku/ogbanje are merely SS kids, no?

Yes, that is exactly who they are if we take away all the myths surrounding them. The whole symptoms of the sickness, the fact that it happens to the same couple repeatedly and also that there was never a cure for it traditionally shows that they were SS kids.

today, you hardly hear of anyone having an Abiku.

Ptolomeus:
Dear friend ifyalways
As far as I understand, I see no relationship between Abiku and egbere, nor as to origin or as to actions.
When we talk about Abiku we refer to two guilds of children (boys on one side and girls on the other). The question can be considered an issue Abiku of tradition, but also has its religious background. As far as is traditionally the burial ceremony of a Abiku was done according to certain special parameters to prevent their return.
I can not find a contact point with egbere.
But the final opinion logically have other siblings more knowledgeable on the subject.
My opinion is simply a point of view that tries to make a humble contribution.
The floor is the most understood.
A fraternal greeting to all and especially you!

Nice One Ptolomeus,

i did a little reading on saci perere, thats quite a funny creature. Ify never associated Abiku and egbere together. They are separate beings.

Its not just about virginity, its about morals. Good Morals is becoming increasingly outdated. Everyone wants to have their way, enjoy their life, do whatever they have to do without regard to others.  People now lack respect, Cheating is Widespread, Lying is game, Humility is stupidity etc. Soon animals might have more morals than we do.

The only things holding us back is conscience, religious beliefs and prison and these are also very subjective.

sdbaba:
The great desire of my life now is to give my children an education, and have them form virtuous habits.

This is sorely missing today especially the later part.

Before you can be proud of your race, you need to be proud of yourself.

I am not proud of my race and i am not ashamed of it and i have never wanted to be from any other place. i only wish to improve myself and others i come in contact with. I can't remember ever feeling embarrassed by anything i have done let alone be embarrassed by my skin colour.

People grow up in different places and under different circumstances, but a lot of African-Americans should not always behave like its 'dem against the world or the establishment'. They have been thru a lot and they have triumphed, just on the last lap remaining, they are losing the baton.
I don't understand all these 'am ghetto' and thug love and 'omota' talk they like revelling in.

The black neighborhood of the 40s to 70s where great and proud men and women arose to fight and they won, but the bounties of the war are being given away cheaply now.

“Passers-by also enjoy the music I play. The advantage is that anybody who ordinarily will not want to buy a CD might be attracted by the music and stop to buy. You are very funny. You think this is pollution? Not having money to feed my children when I don’t sell, that is pollution.


^^^^^
I love this guy.

My neighbor ran his Gen all thru the night today and i had a headache when i got up. All these noise is just too much to bear.

An Abiku is said to be a spirit child, sent by his other spirit play mates to be born into a family and terrorize them. The Abiku spirit world is said to be populated by children playing all day long and engaged in all sorts of merry-making. They often choose a rich family and the child would repeatedly be falling sick causing his parents to squander their wealth seeking for a cure.
Eventually at a previously agreed date -especially on a joyful occasion like a festival or marriage- the child would fall sick and die, and then the child would be re-born again and again to the same family until they are totally exhausted emotionally and financially.

Medicine men were totally at a loss to know how to handle a sick Abiku child. All their best efforts hardly work. Abiku so oloogun de ke: The Abiku has turned the medicine man to a quack/fake.

Sometimes when a mother repeatedly gives birth to an abiku, the child is branded at death so that he can be recognizable when he comes back again, and is said that the child are often reborn with the brands. They are often spoilt by their parents in a bid to persuade them to stay. The belief of Abiku was so prevalent that people still bear Abiku names till date.
Names like Durojaiye - Stay and enjoy life, Banjoko - Stay with me, Malomo- Don't go again, Durosinmi - Stay and rest.

The Ogbanje is practically the same phenomenon as 'Abiku' but this is the eastern name and they are often very beautiful girls. My mom told us that when my kid sister was born people used to call her an Ogbanje because she was very beautiful and to worsen matters she often took ill. My mom never believed in the myth.

You can read the Poem 'Abiku' by Wole Soyinka and JP clark and the Famished Road by Ben Okri.

'I am Abiku calling for the first and repeated time', Wole Soyinka.

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=857688.msg10090918#msg10090918 date=1328030275]I've heard a modern version of that story before.

Hmm, obviously some things were manipulated behind the scenes imo.[/quote]I don't understand, a modern version as in, it happened like this to someone you know, that would be quite interesting.

My great-grand dad was a stubborn man. During the civil war when he was in his 80's. Biafran Soldiers came to our village to wait for the Nigerian Army. The old man had long flowing white beards, so the soldiers said he was a Hausa man and that he should cut his beards if he is not from the north or else he would be killed.
The man told them he is not a northerner and that he has had his beards before anyone of them was born and he was going to his graves with his beards. Everybody was begging him to cut it, but he bluntly refused. The Soldiers eventually left him alone.

A lot of people have such traditions, my mum's village has it that the woman would lose her children and eventually her life, the Isokos believe the woman would die. But i don't believe that it works in these places, there are no living adulterous women.

If the woman is so scared, its a good thing, it should be a further deterrent for her, why does she think she would make such a mistake, its no mistake when you commit adultery, its often time an act well planned and long in the offing.