₦airaland Forum

chinedumo:
your quotation makes it sound like we are not to call our earthly parents father and mother

Listen read verse 12 again
Jesus is talking about pride
when u call someone father you are not Proud
it is the person being called Father that wants to be called father that is proud

Again the same way we say there are no other God but one God
is the same way we say there are no other father but one father

it means simply
we have many gods but ONE GOD OVER ALL
we have many fathers BUT ONE FATHER OVER ALL

always remember that your father in heaven is the ultimate

We don't have many gods, though there are many gods (i.e to unbelievers) but to us there is only one God, There may be many fathers (title-loving religious leaders) but for us there is only one father.

You are not to call them fathers, this is not about biology or paternity, it is about leadership and humility amongst the apostles ad Jesus Christ has been explaining to them that they are not to be like the Pharisees, who likes attention, prominent places, titles etc. The followers of Christ are to be different, no one should be seen as being their leader or the 'face of the church'.

All ye are brothers

Matthew 23:9-12
9. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10. Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
11. The greatest among you will be your servant.
12. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

As Christians, sometimes our capacity to disbelieve the scriptures and believe whatever suits us or what the pastor says is quite disturbing. There is no one that has the right nor the capacity to act as your spiritual 'father' especially when the person accepts it as title, all of us are children to our one father who is in the heaven.

What if the spiritual father messes up, or is wrong about things, what does he become?, what if you become more spiritually mature than he is, do you get to be his father.

You can have many fathers in different context, your relatives or your father's friend, may all culturally be your father. But there is only one spiritual father and one teacher.

Gift4all:
The reason why people call their Church leaders 'Daddies' and 'Mummies' are:

1. Cultural - It is a sign of respect for elderly people. In this sense, It is funny how some old people refer to younger pastors as 'daddy'.

2. Sycophancy - Just to curry favour from 'daddies' and 'mummies'

3. Worship - Some people do worship these so called men of God, which is not suppose to be.

4. Ignorance and 'follow follow" - Some people do call them ignorantly, just the way others are doing it, without really taking time to think of why they came about it.

It is instructive for people to examine themselves and think of why they call their pastors these names. IMHO it is only No. 1 above that is reasonable. Others are not in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Its hard to believe that they do it because of reason 1. That means they would have to call every elderly couple regardless of status or privilege as daddy or mummy, but thats seems not to be the case.

Paul used that language so as to reach the heart of his listeners, the mood is not argumentative, but rather is an appeal to the Galatians on the basis of a broken heart, but rather the agony of a mother for her wayward child.

“My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you—but I could wish to be present with you now and to change my tone, for I am perplexed about you” (Gal. 4:19-20).

Paul has elsewhere described himself in motherly terms, emphasizing the tenderness and love which he had toward those to whom he ministered (1 Thes. 2:7). In this passage, however, it is the agony of the heart of a mother which Paul is seeking to convey to the wayward Galatians. Paul’s pain is as though he was once again giving spiritual birth to these, his children. Having begun verse 19 with an allusion to his readers as children, Paul continues with this image, using the analogy of the birth process and the pain which a mother undergoes to bring her child to life.

This is very different from the glorification and grandeur which these men arrogate to themselves and revel in, Jesus Christ said 'all ye are brothers'.

There is no master-slave relationship in the church nor father-children relationship. No one is supposed to be overall head, no one ought to have his posters and pictures plastered all over the place. It was suppose to be a body of qualified Brethrens.

[quote author=Tee_Jay link=topic=673713.msg8377476#msg8377476 date=1306162607]I refer you to Galatians 4:19 "My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you" where paul referred to his disciples as his children, and as such they can refer to him as their spiritual father. The bottom line is everyone is entitled to do whatever he/she feels comfy with as long as it does not contradict the word of God. if people choose to call their pastor "daddy" or "mummy" so be it, I don't see what the big deal is about that[/quote]In his letter Paul was using an affectionate term 'little children' because he nurtured them like a child spiritually but now its like he has to reborn them again so that they can be fully formed or become 'adults' in Christ. It can be seen clearly that Paul was using a figure of speech and imagery to buttress home his point.

He was not using it as a title neither does he go to the congregations and call people children. Also the early Christian congregation do not use titles such as Pastors, fathers, reverend fathers bishops etc, all these came about after the falling away in the faith, after apostasy entered the Christian church.

I remember a day when i went check my childhood friend, we went to the same sec school and also were in the same University at their fellowship secretariat, when i mentioned his name kayode, someone there asked which Kayode am i asking for, but i said his surname, they were quite annoyed and asked if it was their pastor i was calling by name. I just ignored them and asked if he was around or not.

The clergy should discourage this wrong practice, but they refused to because they are the ultimate beneficiaries.

The man named Edosa Idahor was on is way from Idumota area of Lagos to his stopping point in Warri, Delta state when the rear tyre of the lorry he was driving burst into flames while he was still at Berger area of Ogun state. He drove the lorry while it was still on fire to a point (Mountain of fire) 6 Kilometers far away from impact where he was able to successfuly detach the head of the lorry from the burning container

The rear tyre of the lorry with registration number EDO AK 341 UJE, burst while in motion and caught fire, but the Edo State-born driver, in an attempt to salvage the vehicle from being razed completely, remained in it, trying all he could to detach its head from the container.



He drove on from Berger area of Ogun State, where the tyre burst and caught fire, until where he eventually stopped at Mountain of Fire and Miracles Ministry area on Lagos-Ibadan Expressway, even against sympathisers’ advice that he should save his life first.



Idahor, who sustained burns, to the amazement of bystanders and sympathisers, succeeded in detaching the head of the lorry from the burning container after about 40 minutes of battling the situation.



But the unnamed owner of the lorry-load of frozen fish was said to have passed out during the encounter to salvage the lorry and was rushed to an undisclosed hospital in Ibafo, Ogun State.



Idahor told PUNCH METRO that the fire started when the rear tyre burst and went into flames at Berger area of Ogun State.



He said he had to drive on because there were too many filling stations around the area where the tyre burst and that stopping the vehicle there could be very disastrous.



He said he had to drive on, even against the risk of losing his life, because he was worried about the amount of goods involved and the articulated vehicle.



He said the vehicle was coming from Idumota area of Lagos State, and was heading for Warri, Delta State.



Idahor said, “We were coming from Lagos when the tyre exploded at Berger area of Ogun State. Immediately, it caught fire. I did not want to stop in that area because there are too many filling stations there.



“If I had stopped there, it could have been disastrous. To avoid a situation that would have a spill-over effect, I decided to drive on, even against the risk of losing my life. I thought of the goods involved, 1,500 cartons of fish and the vehicle itself, I had to drive on, at least to take it to a safer place. As you can see, I sustained injuries. The owner of the fish passed out as we battled to salvage the articulated vehicle. She has been taken to a hospital in Ibafo in Ogun State.”



But as some sympathised with the driver and praised him for his bravery, others defied the fire to steal the fish cartons of inside the container.



Our correspondent, who visited the scene of the inferno, noticed youths and women, falling over one another to steal cartons of fish.



A sympathiser, who refused to disclose his name, was perturbed at the turn of event, wondering why the crowd should be so inhuman and wicked by stealing from the burning vehicle. “We are supposed to be our brothers’ keepers, but what is happening is unimaginable. Imagine, people who are supposed to be pitied are being stolen from. This is a reflection of poverty in the land. Imagine, these same people were helping the driver to put out the fire; but the same people are now stealing the goods,” the sympathiser said.



The men of the Federal Road Safety Corps, who visited the scene, could only control traffic from degenerating, but could not prevent the crowd from ransacking the lorry.



The Unit Commander, FRSC, Mowe, Ogun State, Mr. Olalekan Morakinyo, who was disturbed by the theft, called the police to come and salvage the situation.



As at the time of leaving the scene by 4pm, the crowd was still busy stealing cartons of fish as policemen were yet to arrive. However, the men of the fire service from Ogun State were busy making frantic efforts to put out the fire on the container.


http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?datex=29&theartic=Art201105183303685

Meen, you are sick, what has that dude been up to that makes him the left-over.

tom28:
The CIA mostly recruits ppl who speak foreign languages fluently so who says she wont benefit frm learning the yoruba language.She could be a valuable agent for the CIA when it turns its flashlights on Nigeria.

i never said she can't benefit from it, buts its a tall order, then the CIA talk is even a taller one

The Lady spent time and money to learn a language of a country which has no roots with, which she was not forced to learn by her parents or the school system, which she might not benefit from economically, for me that is a big deal, it is not unique but it is nice. I would not learn Korean, Chinese or any other just for the sake of learning, its either am stuck there and i need it to survive or i need it for a Job, if its any course work i would probably drop the course.

So if she comes here and have some fun with the language with a huge TV crew and the people she is speaking with are not embarrassed, but are in fact amused and entertained, then why not do it.

I tried learning Ibo even tho a lot of people speak it around me and am still not getting beyond the greetings and a few phrases but this woman was able to, so kudos to her.

bababuff:
Wishful thinking. Which Nigerian babes? Do you have any road as smooth in Nigeria?

That must be joke or just a jab, there are a hundred better roads than this.

novaman:
we are too sentimental about issues, instead making reasonable suggestions. The govt. is in health(lasuth), roads (badagry exp.way). Water (lost count), the last time i checked the lekki road is still ongoing, the 4th mainland is also on the list. Ppl shuld consider the fact that if we spend all our money on roads and hospitals witout look for new IGR, then children yet unborn will never 4give us. We need money to maintain the roads and hospitals, where do we get the fund when the popullation shoots up to 25mil. Ppl are still complaining about like the brt and rail yet they have not profer any alternative

Thanks so much for this, people here think its just what is posted here on Nairaland that is happening on the ground. I remember a time when this guy just came in and he was doing a lot of road construction and it was causing a lot of traffic e.g western avenue road, Egbeda-Iba road, people were complaining that he should take them one after the other, now some are saying he has done little for the common man.

The BRT Transport, how many of those 'elites' ride on them? What are the things he has done for the people in the Lekki-axis, that makes him Elitist, even the Lekki_Epe expressway, they say they don't want it because of the toll, all other projects there are under-construction.
But in the mainland, He has built several General Hospitals and Maternity Homes, A lot of Roads were built/resurfaced in Surulere/Alaka, In Ikotun/Igando, Egbeda new roads were constructed and a whole lot were repaired.
Many New mini-water works were also completed, but a lot of people in Lagos live in rented houses, most of those lanlords are not interested in spending a dime to join the water-grid, In my street in Orile Agege, there is a water line that passes right in front of us all, it was just two or three houses that connected to it, people would rather burst the pipe and fetch the wasting water than spend money to connect. Even when one man provided water free in the neighborhood, some people when in the night and destroyed the faucets.

Aah ii ni ọnọ wuẹle gbi ugan si ebhohiẹ. (You don’t argue about a dream with its dreamer.)

Ọbhẹbhẹn yyọ ghe khi ena ọle rri era’ẹn fiọ, ghe ọnọ to khian ni ọle bha lẹn ẹlo bhọ. (A mad man says he only dropped his fire on this spot, but he knows nothing of fire ravaging the forest.)

Aah kha rẹkhan ẹkpẹn khian, Aah ki li elamhẹn; Aah kha rẹkhan ẹbhe khian, Aah ki li ebeh. (A companion of tiger will feed on meat but a companion of goat will eat leaves.)

Ebale kha sike ebgi unu gbe, ọ’ ii ji Aah le. (Food that is too close to the mouth is difficult to eat.)

Ọba ii de Esan, Ọzọloa ii ri Ẹdo. (No Benin monarch visits Esan land, just as Ọba Ọzọloa who was slain in Esan will never return to Benin.)

Ọgbihiagha bhi uhọmhọn nain ọka yyọ ghe ọhle lẹn otu si ọhle. (The dreadlocked maize insists it knows its age mates.)

Eni ediọn kha le, enai ẹlimhin ki khọn. (When the elders eat, the spirits are full.)

Ọnọ ii mhọn ọmọn ii mhọn oruan. (The one who has no child cannot have an in-law.)

Thanks for bringing this up,

I am quite good with Yoruba proverbs because i was bron in Lagos and i could speak the Yoruba language well, i came to appreciate and love the beauty of the language because it has really been developed and expanded.

I speak Esan to a reasonable degree, then i started also taking note of the proverbs my parents used at home, so i decided to look for more and it has been rewarding, so many beautiful tots expressed in elegant manner.

Altho the lack of a common lingua-franca has made it quite challenging to master the language, especially Esan that has myriads of dialects, Does Bini have different dialects too?

Also, what does a Bini man says he speaks, does he speak Edo or he speaks Bini. I recently argues with an Esan colleague that the language is Edo not Bini, i hope am right.

Usẹn bi usẹn ko yi egbe ‘halo’. (It is age mates that greet each other with ‘hello’.)

Aah kha kha viẹ, Aah yẹ daghe. (Even in tears, it is not impossible to see.)

Ebi Aah miẹn ofẹn ii muin uki, ?bi ọhle ii da bha ọsi adamhẹn. (If not for fear, why doesn’t the moon shine in the daytime?)

Ọriọbhe giẹrẹn lumhin eman, ọle bha lẹn eji Aah ri ubhokọ gọ. (Although a stranger pounds pounded yam well, he lacks knowledge of where to keep the pestle.)
Ẹdẹ ni okhuo rẹ nyin eman ebe, ẹdẹni ọlle rẹ le nẹ. (It is on the day a woman cooks a bad meal that she eats best.)

Obhokhan kha ni isọn ebe, Aah ki ri ebe ugbolimhosaka gbo ọle uwedin a. (If a child defecates repulsive excreta, the leaf of a spiky plant will be used to wipe his buttocks.)

Aah bha min ebi Aah khin ọkhọmhọn yẹ, Aah ki zaghi ọle era’ẹn a. (If because of his illness you can’t hurt a sick person, you can at least extinguish the fire that keeps him warm.)

Aah ii ri afe nani umhẹn. (You don’t increase the amount of salt you consume simply because you are wealthy.)

Ẹwa’ẹn Aah rẹ gbi udia nọ timan bhi ikpẹkẹn. (Killing a tsetse fly that perches on one’s scrotum demands wisdom.)

Bokohalal

you have really unearth all the wise sayings, let me also add some from Esan.

Agbọn khi ese. (It is human beings that do disguise as supernatural forces.)

Ọnọ ii ribhi eni, ọle Aah ri enyan si ọle tọn bhi egbi era’ẹn. (It is the absent one whose yam would always be kept beside the fire.)

Eto kha rẹ re, Aah yẹ lẹn eji ukẹhae nae. (No matter how hairy the head becomes, the forehead remains distinct.)

Eji ọboh da gui otọ ọhle ọle da horiẹ. (A native doctor disappears only where he is used to.)

Aah ii di isira ọnọ khin eni khin ẹkpẹn. Or, Aah ii khin ẹkpẹn man ọnọ khin eni. (You don’t change to a tiger in the presence of one who can change to an elephant.)

Ẹwa’ẹn Aah rẹ gbi efẹn nọ ribhi ẹkẹ akhe. (Killing a rat that is holed up inside an earthen pot requires wisdom
Ure kha lo bhi ẹbọ, ọ’ ki khin ẹbọ. (When a snail inhabits a shrine, it becomes an idol.)

Irẹlobhegbe zzẹ ni ọkhọ bha da lli afiamhẹnh. (But for forbearance, the chicken would have taken into eating birds.)

Ọnọ gbi ọnọdeọde ọhle ọnọdeọde viẹ bhi itolimhin. (In a funeral each mourner mourns the fate that befalls him, not the deceased’s.)

The question of superiority is unique to humans and it transcends all races, a lot of people need to look down on others for them to feel good and it divides us further, to believe that you are better than another person just because you came from a particular race for me is the worst deception anyone can indulge in.

People have used the issue of superiority as an excuse to unleash violence and misery on their fellow humans. Almost all genocides and most wars can be directly linked to superiority/inferiority complex and to believe in it means you could easily be persuaded to commit, aid, permit or be indifferent to it.

The Germans believed Russians to be barbarians and so allowed hitler to use them commit atrocities in the WW11, the Japans held the Chinese in contempt and so they were able to commit the 'rape of nanking', serbs/kosovars/croats all killed themselves mercilessly because they felt they were better, 'decent' Christian whites could stomach the gore of slavery and the maltreatment of blacks because their clergy dehumanized the blacks and called them 'cursed'. The British have looked down on the Irish for centuries and the French and Brits have always believed themselves racially superior to the other.
The List is inexhaustible and it is definitely a foolish thinking for 'all men were born equal', given equal opportunities and same circumstances, we would have all achieved more or less the same result.

DASLEEKY:
[size=16pt]Wole Soyinka on the Ongoing General Elections[/size]

The Nigerian Way of Dying
As elections get underway in Africa’s most populous nation, there’s both hope and blood.

By Wole Soyinka


Culled from www.newsweek.com
http://www.newsweek.com/2011/04/03/the-nigerian-way-of-dying.html


The ongoing Nigerian electioneering perversely calls to mind the title of a work I read decades ago—Jessica Mitford’s The American Way of Death. What she would have written on Nigeria’s democratic culture, especially of its rapacious consumption, one can only conjecture. The present Nigerian democratic system is supposedly modeled on the American, where the cost of electioneering is also astronomical. There, however, all similarities end. In the U.S., for a start, funding is regulated and monitored. Infringements are punished.

Most pertinent, however, is that the U.S. does not appear to give any sign of dying through the ballot box. Casualties are hardly reported, and each exercise appears to strengthen that nation’s democratic culture. In Nigeria’s distorted version of America’s expensive electoral system, more than just the national treasury is bled to death. Contenders die—their supporters also—in droves. Their relations are not exempted. Some are kidnapped to exert pressure on their ambitious kin to step down. Ultimately, the democratic project also dies, as does the sense of nationhood, casualties of the manipulation of economic, ethnic, religious, and economic disparities.

A hopeful feature of the 2011 elections, however, is the entry of a new electoral commissioner, Attahiru Jega. A professor and former academic trade unionist, he is a different cut, most Nigerians agree, from his corrupt predecessor. Threatening to overwhelm this plus is that, perhaps for the very same reason, the current elections are looking more and more like a contest for body counts. The explanation is straightforward: even as democracy does not begin and end with elections, the seeds for its demise are sown long before an electoral exercise. In the Nigerian case, one can actually assign a date to the current harvest from those seeds.

We must travel back in time. The nation endured military dictatorships for more than three fifths of its independence. After the death of the sadistic dictator Gen. Sanni Abacha in 1998, Nigeria underwent a one-year transitional military administration headed by Gen. Abdulsalami Abubakar, who uncharacteristically bowed out precisely on the promised date for military disengagement. Did the military truly disengage, however? No. Not only did that unregistered political party, the armed forces, impose a constitution on the nation, it ensured that its entrenched “party” members and obliging civilian partners were inserted into a large number of political offices—governorships, state and national legislatures, and—the jewel in the crown—the presidency itself.

The 1999 presidential election was a farce, but Nigerians chose to go along—anything to be rid of the disastrous, violently corrupt rule of soldiers. Three years into his presidency, the Army nominee, Gen. Olusegun Obasanjo, became entirely preoccupied not only with his reelection in 2003, but also with obtaining an unconstitutional third term in office. As I wrote when his maneuvers had become undeniable, the nation was headed for a West African Mugabe scenario. Its failure took years, however—all of his second tenure—and the consequences of that abortive effort are very much what now threaten the democratic survival of the Nigerian nation as it looks over its shoulder at Zimbabwe and the Ivory Coast of Laurent Gbagbo.

Determined to consolidate his hold on power, General Obasanjo began an onslaught on democratic structures—the judiciary included—with military ruthlessness. If the 1999 election was tolerated as the price of military disengagement, the election in 2003 was seen as its consolidation under a change of clothing. An unusual unanimity characterized the reports of virtually every internal and international monitoring organization: 2003 was a macabre joke. Several of the electoral results would be eventually overturned by election tribunals and the judiciary.

That 2003 election registered few casualties, but the reason was obvious: opposition parties were caught totally unaware. Very few believed that Obasanjo’s ruling party would revert to such an in-your-face contempt of the electoral process. Even a hypocritical genuflection toward minimal democratic appearances went missing. The opposition was hoodwinked, additionally, by the lofty, reassuring pronouncements of the then-chairman of the electoral commission, one “professor” Maurice Iwu, today acknowledged nationwide as the most corrupt, obsequious electoral umpire ever to preside over a national election.

The lessons learned the hard way are responsible for the high fatality level of the current election. Normal avenues for rigging have been blocked—there’s a computerized electoral register, an adoption of the “secret open” ballot system where the voter marks his ballot behind a screen, and drops it into the transparent ballot box placed in public view. Votes are counted in front of the voters, then transmitted immediately to the collation center—such safeguards have left a number of illegitimate incumbents in a quandary. Example: in one ward in Osun state, eligible voters peaked at about 2,000, whereas votes for the ruling party in that same sector in the past had consistently numbered more than 20,000.

How do the exposed beneficiaries guarantee their survival? Only through preelection intimidation, thuggery, assassinations, and the like. The opposing side, its morale bolstered by the new electoral controls, has equally primed itself for a robust resistance. The results are easily predicted.

Are there other causes for this assisted suicide mission? Certainly. Before leaving office in 1999, after a total of nearly three decades in government, the militricians—as they are locally known—crafted every legislature into a glorified House of Spoils. The chairman of the Central Bank of Nigeria, Lamido Sanusi, stoutly affirmed this view when summoned by outraged legislators: the overheads incurred in maintaining the two chambers, he declared, ate up 25.1 percent of government budget. The inmates of the House of Spoils compete to eat the nation to death. The basic salary of the lowest-earning legislator, even without taking into account perquisites and other unrecorded earnings, exceeds the salary of the president of the United States.

No wonder that no party raises fundamental questions: Is the Nigerian variant of the democratic systems of other countries appropriate for the nation? Does the nation require full-time legislators or would it better served part time, as in some other, more highly developed nations? Would this reduce the statistics of political morbidity through the diminished monetary attraction? Evasion of these questions makes one despair if, among the political office seekers, change will ever emerge, even a minority with the moral courage to initiate the assault on a fundamentally flawed Constitution imposed upon the nation by self-serving militricians, and in an arbitrary manner that even the former colonial masters never dared?
That even the opposition parties today—most of them without a manifesto—are giving no consideration to overturning a system that merely gives a crude impersonation of democracy bodes ill for the future. Its rapacious, high-cost maintenance renders it ultimately self-consuming.

Soyinka won the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1986.

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/04/03/the-nigerian-way-of-dying.html

I guess he has spoken, and i did not see him endorsing any political party, he definitely does not think this system is right for us. So his not commenting further may mean he does not have faith in what is going-on even if it is free and fai, which in many places is not.

Rossikk:
vocalist said:

Thank you my sister. You see, when certain people set themselves up as sages in our midst, thinkers, voices of the masses, social crusaders, pro-democracy activists, etc then they cannot afford to have selective ''withdrawals from public life'' and such puerile exhibitions of parochialism.

At this point, Wole Maradona Soyinka seems appropriate.

I bet if something that paints PDP in bad light occurs now, he'll suddenly wake up from his ''withdrawal state'' and head to CNN headquarters.

I dont know how you want him to comment on everything that happens in this country, before the freedom of speech, there is the right to remain silent and he still has it. No activist in the world comments on all issues, it becomes pointless and it is humanly impossible. The man has been doing it for decades, whether for selfish or whatever reason, he has a right to be silent, and please its not about PDP all the time, you remember he has been opposing buhari because of his human rights records for years even in the Obasanjo days

phxc:
Is this person serious? What made the clergy enemies of the truth and what the f88k is political church? You need to revise the history of christianity and you'll find out that the church dominated everyone's life during that period and nailing people to the stake and burning them alive were tools the church used to eliminate dissent and heresy. They were not the victims as you've suggested.

harakiri:
@phxc. . . Thanks for noticing the absurdity of that post. It's always refreshing to have objective,rational and clear minded people on board. I really hope that poster will be online when i log in via laptop. There must be explanation for those carelessly misinterpreted comments.

@phxc, maybe you should read my post well before getting so worked up. The clergy did not want the lay men to know the truth in the scriptures, the church forbade ordinary men from reading the bible, so nobody really knows what it contains, whatever the clergy says goes and no one could challenge their authority. When some priests and other free thinkers wanted change, william tyndale when he was about to be burnt famously said that God willing he would make a stable boy know more of the Bible than the priests. The clergy wanted a continous and tenacious hold on the people so that they would remain their master and lord. So they were enemies of the truth.

The Early christians never engaged in politics, politics and christianity were seperated, rich and powerful clergymen later became Bishops, the bishop of rome became the pope and wielded so much power, that kings consulted him, eventually he started crowning Kings and then eventually the Holy Roman Empire was Born which was totally unholy and bloodthirsty.

I never said they were the victims, rather they were the devils.

@harakiri, i think you have actually commited a harakiri by aligning with his thots without really understanding what i wrote, am not trying to convince anyone, what am saying is that we not just idiots believing anything by faith, we are equally objective, rational and clearminded people and we have good reasons for what we believe in.

[quote author=say-d-fact link=topic=646632.msg8131697#msg8131697 date=1302857058]NIGERIANS I WONDER Y WE'LL NEVER GROW, B4 U POST A COMMENT ABOUT THIS VIDEO, GET A PROOF THAT ITS PDP, even a party member can vote for a candidate from another party for other reasons or promise received from such candidate, I NEED PROOF.
[/quote]what proof are you shouting for, who on this forum can go into the woman's mind and get all the details. what is sure is that, its possible to get the party who she was mass-voting for, the results there can be cancelled and a rerun done.
PDP won there and if the agent there is a pdp agent, then pdp is the first suspect, other proofs can roll in during investigations.

The two women there can be arrested and questioned and all the culprits brought to book, so wait and see how events will turn out.

werepeLeri:
Someone saw a crime being committed and stood there recording a video for 3:26mins and puts it on you tube to serve what purpose? If the recorders wasnt conniving with the setup, why werent the security agents called in to grab this person or why watch her do it and then post this video?

very stupidddd peeps.

How did you know he stood there? he could have been many metres away, he might have been a double agent - bought but actually against them- he might be using a pen, button camera or any of those james bond kits. The fact is that we don't know how he succeeded, but the evidence is out and we are reacting to it, shikena

3. Yes practical wisdom is found in our local customs and traditions, but none of it is close to what the Bible reveals. it reveals a greater surpassing wisdom. Wisdom beyond its time. Wisdom that scientists discovered or confirmed thousands of years later. i can give you examples if you want.

4. i would give you examples of preventive measures for diseases, which no culture as at that time practice, not even the medical field.
If an Israelite had a skin blemish suspected of being leprosy, he was put in isolation. “All the days that the plague is in him he will be unclean. He is unclean. He should dwell isolated. Outside the camp is his dwelling place.” (Leviticus 13:46). That is quarantine, preventive.

Another important law had to do with the disposal of human excrement, which had to be buried outside the camp. (Deuteronomy 23:12, 13) This law no doubt saved Israel from many sicknesses. Medical science did not know the relationship between faeces and sickness until thousands of years later. You need to know that microbes exists and the flies carries germs from faeces to humans to appreciate the importance of this law. Preventive.
As at that time, the champion of human civilization, the Egyptian empire was recommending using faeces for all kinds of ailments.


The Bible’s high standard of hygiene even involved mental health. A Bible proverb said: “A calm heart is the life of the fleshly organism, but jealousy is rottenness to the bones.” (Proverbs 14:30) In recent years, medical research has demonstrated that our physical health is indeed affected by our mental attitude. This is purely 21st century medicine, positive mental thinking, this is modern psychology.

For example, Doctor C. B. Thomas of Johns Hopkins University studied more than a thousand graduates over a period of 16 years, matching their psychological characteristics with their vulnerability to diseases. One thing she noted: The graduates most vulnerable to disease were those who were angrier and more anxious under stress.

A statement that is unprovable is not necessarily untrue. Scientific proof is limited by man’s ability to discover sufficient evidence and to interpret data correctly. But some truths are unprovable because no evidence has been preserved, the evidence is obscure or undiscovered, or scientific capabilities and expertise are insufficient to arrive at an uncontested conclusion. Might this be the case with certain Biblical statements for which independent physical evidence is lacking?
For example, the Bible’s references to an invisible realm inhabited by spirit persons cannot be proved—or disproved—scientifically
This can be said about the miracles in the Bible

5. Stalin was not a christian, he actively supported atheism, but within two decades he has killed more that all the political crusaders did in close to a hundred years. Pol Pot in a few years killed millions too, he was an atheist. Between the two of them they have killed more than perhaps all the religious wars. If you are looking for those who have killed innocent blood in all ages, government, politics are your culprit and there is no one as greedy as them.

6. All those people killed in warfare by the israelites, were condemned by God. They have been tried by the most high and judged, but if you don't believe in God, then this point would be irrelevant. Government of the world kill people by firing squad, lethal injectiosn hanging, by the laws of the Land. The canaaniteds were condemned by the laws of the Highest Judge for the atrocities thay have been commiting. An archaelogist who exhumed the the canaanites cities was so shocked by their way of Life, that he said God should have destroyed them earlier.

@harakiri

You need to read more or learn more about the crusades and the knight templars so that you would know that it was not a religious war but a war created by politicians and businessmen to acquire more wealth and glory. Religion was used to whip up sentiments and to recruit laymen and peasants. The popularity of christianity started even before they had any political or military might.
The Whole of Jerusalem and Judea became filled with Christian ideals and teachings within two decades of Jesus death to the extent that the Roman Government considered it a threat to their empire, true christians never fought back, they rather turn the other cheek. True christianity does not need the sword to be popular and it doesn not need the whole world to be converts,it needs just a few, God saved only Noah and his Family.
Its politicians that wants to rule the world and they use any means necessary.

2. Perhaps It takes a super-human effort for a book to be that popular.
The next best-seller is galaxies away from it, in terms of number translated and number distributed. Remember it was not smooth-sailing for it to be printed in common language. Enemies of the truth - the clergy and the political church- used all means to suppress its spread, nailing people to the stake, burning them alive, ransacking whole towns to stop the spread of the Bible. Yet these efforts failed woefully. So could it be that someone divine is behind its success.

namfav:
why should that matter as far as i know we didn't resist islam, but in a historical context even the meccans resisted islam, what matters is now
hehe she is 'free', she can make whatever choice she wants, 'a cikin ingila'

Tweety121:
@ rabzy from what I understand, the fulani have been predominantly muslim for centuries, before that probably animists/spiritualists/pagan like most Africans were before Islam and Christianity were brought over by conquerors, colonialists and migrants. Although culture is often intertwined with religion, fulani culture in terms of their clothing, food, language, occupations, dwellings, movements and family relationships is mostly distinct from and probably predates Islam.


@ clemcykul To, nagode. Bin che kome ba dan bana so in zo nan in fara fada da kowa.

If all the above is true, then namfav, then becoming a christian does not defulanised her. So please namfav allow some tolerance. God did not de-humanized those who strayed from the path

recoome:
I guess soyinka, the champion and launcher of cultism has nothing to say owing to the fact that he has been demystified and turned into a failed statesman.

Why do people display their bigotry in capitals. What you know as cultism today is not Soyinka was involved with and if you can't accept or understand such simple truth, then it would be very hard for you to see beyond your nose on any matter.

Failed Statesman? how now, when he is still consulted all over the world.
Has he lost his right to remain silent, is he anyone of us boy, that we should gauge when he speaks. He has spoken enough and he has spoken well and even if he remains silent till death, most of us would not have said as much as he has and even if we do, not to as much audience

namfav:
tweety but islam is not born with us, it is born in us, i'm yet to find a fulani who is born christian and god forbid if it becomes a norm, i also asked my brother who knows more than me and he also told me such a thing does not exist, i wonder whether you will ever live amongst fulanis or whether you have completely alienated yourself from as you call "your people"

well that's sad, i hope one day you return to al islam inchallah because as you said in your own post that honouring our culture is with islam, which i agree with completely, we never give up on our people but its all in allahs hands

I just want to know if the fulanis had any culture before islam came and also whether there was any resistance to Islam initially or not.

If Jesus came to his church today, he would have used pankere and koboko to beat everyone of them for turning his father's  house into a cave of robbers, but am not Jesus would even come there, he probably does not count it among his father's house.

The fall of man into sin has led to so many aberrations. No one can say for sure, but it seems a whole lot of gays were influenced into bcoming so, all girls boarding schools are especially notorious for this.

Some people people started stealing from childhood and would not leave it despite repeated imprisonment, some are kleptos.

But whatever the case no man is a slave of his desires.

Bawss1:
lol

I was going to ask same for Abia state.

i went to Aba recently and i can't believe my eyes, huge rubbish on major roads causing traffic jams, I did not see any construction going on, all the streets are narrow, its so bad. Umuahia looks good but i don't know who did the Job maybe its Orji d first, but i did not see any new work going on int the areas i went to.


I sincerely hope this rail would work in Lagos, its going to save our lives. The Governor has shocked all of us with so much infrastructural improvement in such a short time, and i strongly believe he would achieve this too.

And for those who are saying at what cost, how do we know the numbers Dosunmu is calling is true, maybe he should go and Convince GEJ to sign FOI bill so that we can call for facts and work with facts. I talk about what i see on the ground not what some people says are passing under the table.

This has been so enlightening for me that am literally glowing, Nice work physics you are the bomb, x-factoria you too much. Let all those University Professors that just copy other people's work in their thesis go and eat shit 'a week day old shit'

Please i need some help here,

I have listened to Mrs Jonathan speeches at different campaign rallies, and while i have not heard any substance from what she says except some nice remix of gospels songs, but whatsup with this umbrerra, pin-din-pin and the likes she keeps saying, why don't they just allow Mrs Sambo do the talking and let Patience lead the choir.

This woman is embarrassing the whole Nation men!

All the Above are valid points but its not enough for people who never came to the school to just come here and rant off about things they know little off, calling OAU students idiots.

How much of the supposed 'peace' in their school was achieved by students, the school authorities have castrated their Unions and nothing is left for the students to do but to swallow every trash pushed down their throat by any administrator. In those schools students are killed, beaten and raped mercilessly and repeatedly on their campus and they pretend as if nothing of such is happening. These things hardly happen on OAU campus and its all down to the students efforts.

The years btw 1998 and 2005 were especially trying, we had the Ife-modakeke war, we had the attack on campus by external cultists and the subsequent rout of all those involved.

Rogers did a meaningless 6 months calendar regularization, national ASUU added their own strike fighting for Ilorin 44 lecturers, at the same time the Ilorin University did not join the strike, these lecturers also have Families and they were wrongly sent off and some Ilorin students can come here and mouth off.

The internal ASUU, ssanu, and nasu strikes have also led to several closures, then student protests don't have to lead to closures, but the administrators have to learn to manage he crisis differently.

That being said, the Law dept, English and other Faculties should try and organize forums, lectures etc to sensitize the students and look for a better way to deal with issues with more maturity, and also dialogue in a more political way with the management while bearing in mind the welfare of the students.

okunoba:
@Naijanile. u have said it all. OAU students can`t be good thinkers, dem just de follow, follow the corrupt SU leaders.

If you have not been there you would never understand. This is a school which is surrounded by hills, mountains and great bushes, but has never been taken over by cultists, a school where you can walk safely anytime of the day, read anywhere you like and go anywhere you want all this was achieved not by the school authorities but by the vigilant students.

This is a school where you can't just harass any student, in fact in my time which was quite recent if you lay your hands on a Lady, you are liable to ferefe sisi.
This is a school where for just 20,000 naira or so misappropriation of funds the student union president was almost lynched, and several union leaders have been impeached and beaten for embezzlement of paltry funds.

This is a school where basic amenities like light, water is fairly constant because the students would not allow themselves been shortchanged.

This is a school where fro m the day of resumption hundreds of students flock to reading areas when exams is still many months away.
This is a school where the students have been making waves all over the world and in the several fields just like other schools too.

Every school use the term Great, Great UItes, Great Akokites etc but we make the loudest noise and we are very proud to say it, so if some others cant proclaim their greatness as much as we do, we would not apologise for our behavior.

And even in those times past where people claim the glories exist, there was a whole lot of activism, in fact Fela mentioned it in one of his songs ' craze world be dat, where dem kill de students for zaria and ife'.

While all that has been said, just like with evry other movements and protests, the protests are often overdone and the student unions allow selfish and ideological jargons get in the way of reasoning, and they are the ones that go into negotiations with the school.
And OAU students don't shut the school, its the School authority that use it to just punish students and they see it as an easy way out of a crisis situation.

Greeeeeeat Ife