₦airaland Forum

4everGod:
Isnt self fulfilment a "reward"? If any other reward is attached to self fulfilment like " recognition of ones works" or " some form of monetary or material reward" as a " thank you" bottomline is that it began from ones effort to bring fulfilment to one or another.

If a person has a good paying job... It's possible he is fulfilled at the job but the reason he goes to that job everyday is because of his salary. Now if there was no salary and he still has the same level of commitment to the job, we can say self-fulfilment is his motive... But while collecting salary, he can't claim to be committed because of self-fulfilment
You get?

Image123:
Duh, God saves from the two. Most people believe what they can see, or are moved easily by what they can see. Hence, they'd shiver at a gun. For me, none moves me, same thing the Bible Christians and characters. It's another thing if the choice is between God and a gun. I'd rather anything attack me than God attack or fight me. But for gods, forget them already. Abi i should attack them instead.

Have you had a loaded gun pointed at you before?

4everGod:
Indeed you are confused because you are asking a question yet asking it as if I alluded to the system not being perfect.

I will leave you to that confusion.

Lolz... So you believe the system is perfect? I need to hear you say it!!

4everGod:
Again you miss it and thanks for proving to everyone even to yourself that even boredom is a motive behind an action.

The mere fact that "because" is found in your statement proves MOTIVE. Even Gods reward does not exclude self fulfilment which comes when we make others happy we also get happiness bestowed on us.

The fact that we care for others makes us happy and the cycle continues. This is too elementary really. I am surprised you cannot see it properly.

If self fulfilment was enough reason... Why did an omniscient god need to use a promise of reward when instructing you to give.

4everGod:
I will leave the obviously ignorant criticism to you. You are doing a pretty good job at it.

Am still confused... Do you agree the system is not perfect?

4everGod:
For sake of clarity...All Gods Commands do is simply to create MOTIVE in us.....RIGHT MOTIVES which do not end up being mixed with pride (which is extremely easy to do).

Nothing any human ever does is devoid of motive. You have not answered my question.

Why are you on Nairaland today?

God creates right motives in us? So giving to the poor because you want to be rewarded by god is the right motive? How about giving because you care about their plight?
Oh... And am on nairaland today because am bored and less busy

Image123:
What exactly is untrue? I never said all Christians but many, spot the difference between. Different kinds of people still get healing and answers to prayers today, no difference. People testify about miraculous healing every week all over the world, don't be locally myopic.

Lolz people testify... On TV, abi?
If truly Jesus heals then there's should be less sickness among Christians than others. In fact, Christian-dominated countries should have the lowest mortality rate but alas! The countries with the lowest mortality rates are non- religious.
Can you explain that?

4everGod:
When you say NATURALLY GOOD.....Naturally means "as expected". In other words right from birth such a one "is expected" to be good regardless of experience or exposure.

Clearly you are confused

Am confused here... Why didn't you answer my question

4everGod:
Why are you confusing yourself and deceiving yourself into thinking you are making sense. Did you just happen to be on Nairaland today? Why are you here today?

There is no action without a motive otherwise there is no purpose. Motive breeds purpose and purpose is what keeps you going on even in all the monotony you keep on keeping on because your purpose which was born through motive is generating results even if they are little.

Why did Seun set up Nairaland? For fun? Even that is a motive. Why would a doctor leave his comfort zone to a place of misery? Motive and purpose. These when combined enables him not to see the environment but only to see the assignment. Try to understand that and stop being ignorant.

Why would a soldier still remain a soldier even when all he sees is death all around him? Why would he leave the comfort of his home and family and sign up to the army even when fully aware of the dangers involved? How do you think the word PATRIOT came about?

[b][/b]

^^^^^

This particular highlighted comment shows you are lost in this discussion

All this your epistle is for nothing...
The point remains that there people who don't need God's commands, threats or promises to be good. Unlike Christians.

4everGod:
Another release of ignorance. How does my personal celebration translate to my rejoicing over anothers problem? When you get a good job and you are sharing the good news to others does that mean you are rejoicing in the fact that others lost out on the same opportunity? Why dont you simply reject every good thing that comes your way as a show of support to those who also lost out on same opportunity. Can you do that?



I repeat, nobody is born NATURALLY good. We grow into who we become. Our experiences and response to those experiences make us either good or bad people. The problem you have is that you assume Christians who give do so because they hope to receive. Those who do that are yet to understand what Gods word declares hence making them babes in Christ.

LUKE 6: 35

But love your enemies, do good to them, and give to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

1. That's a wrong analogy. But even at that, I will criticize a system that doesn't provide enough opportunities for every qualified person. Can you criticize the system god has created for making heaven and hell. Can you?

2. I never said anybody is born naturally good. I said some people are naturally good. That is, they are not good because of any personal reasons. And Christians give because of personal reasons. Even in the verse you quoted, it says "then your reward will be great."
Giving for reward or in obedience to some higher power is not noble.

4everGod:
I doubt you know how vast motives are. You are the one who isnt knowledgeable.

Why does a person go to school to study medicine? MOTIVE
Why spend those years in school? MOTIVE
When done why offer free services in medical care? MOTIVE
Why run charities in various forms? MOTIVE

Everything has a reason (MOTIVE) behind it. That motive when scrutinized is what makes it selfish or selfless.

I advice that you think and do more thinking and stop retorting ignorantly.

Here is what you said:
"Good is never done without a reason." Suggesting that for every good done by a person, there is another reason it was done apart from the intention to just do good... That has been shown to be a lie.
You made that comment when I mentioned people who were actually good without being Christians. So you were trying to show that these people had some reasons for doing good that was not more noble than the Christian's motives.

enshy:
See where you sham intelligence has failed and folly has risen beyond doubts.
He that starts a race and falls at the finishing line not crossing it and the snail runner who crosses the finished line, who wins the race/prize?
Every system is ruled by laws! Dont you know this?
Even in football, 200k petitions for PSG/Barca rematch but Uefa isnt going to oblige..There are rules, emotion has no roles..
Emotions and pity has no role!!
God forgives when you ask for it, repent and accept Jesus...Its Grace!
If you dont, even if you donate all your life, you are inches from Hell.
But thats not even you, I dont see any good you have even done, Jesus you dont want, your case is different!

Another stupid comment!
Where a person creates a system that is riddled with injustice, people challenge it until it's changed... There was a time slavery was allowed in the rules, it was challenged until it was abolished...
But your god who claims to be all loving and all knowing and intelligent, creates a system with the kinds of flaws? That is a logical impossibility

enshy:
Oh you are so limited in thinking!
So fame means you are known around the world?
Didnt you see a lady's post who has been in the US from birth and never knew Pastor Adeboye, does that mean Pst Adeboye isnt famous?
Fame is a state of being known by many people not all people!!

Geez... Can't you reason? A brilliant doctor with potential leaves his developed country and moves to a small community in Namibia to help them with TB... which fame does he have? If he stayed back in his country, he could become a rich doctor with a lot of patients and be famous... But he prefers to help a small community that no one pays attention to... So he left fame at home to go and look for smaller fame...
Guy... You no try at all

4everGod:
Can you show me how Christians are celebrating the fact that anyone is going to hell? Are the preaching we do not meant to warn all about hell and ask them to turn away from it? How does that translate to joy?

The doctors you mentioned still base their work on MOTIVE.

I repeat, nobody wakes up to doing good...there is ALWAYS a motive.

I wonder how motive translates to meaning SELFISH to you? How do you atheists even reason?

If my motive is simply to make my world a better place is that not a motive? Is is selfish?

Why do you people never reason wide but always have a tunnel vision?

You just dey yarn nonsense...
1. If you're celebrating that you are going to heaven and you know full well others are going to hell. What's that?

2. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it... There are people who are naturally good. There is a difference between a Christian who gives to the poor because he believes he will receive more and another person who gives out of empathy.... That's the difference between Christians and actual good people.

enshy:
Are you still learning?
Isnt fame some incentive for doing good?
No one does good without motives for reward.
Ask our Oga that though we access nairaland for free, yet he has rewards as evidenced in fat bank accts.
Dont argue against facts and the obvious lest your folly become clear like crystals!

You're not knowledgeable. How many people with doctors without borders are popular, or how many red Cross Members are famous...
I know the only reason you try to be good is that you're scared of hell but there are people who are actually good people, that don't need any motivation to do good... People infinitely better than you are

enshy:
So you believe only those that participate at the olympics and enter into the race fulfilling the conditions of the game will win the gold medal?
My dear, there is no salvation in any other, there is no other name given amongst men whereby we must be saved...
There will no Xtian, Muslim, atheist, agnostic, idol worshipper in Heaven...Only those that have accepted Jesus and have been washed by the blood, those are the redeemed, only these will make Heaven at last!
Settle with Him and ecsape the damnation to come!

Stop being ridiculous... People who have given their lives to Jesus are the Christians...
If that is the criterion that means a boko haram terrorist that has killed, maimed and raped thousands of people will go to heaven if he accepted Jesus on his death bed while a person who has dedicated his life to helping people will go to hell...
Which kind of a sick, sadistic god creates that kind of system. Even I myself would have created a system many times better than that

4everGod:
Do you believe heaven or hell is real? If your answer is no then how does where whoever ends up bother you while you are yet alive on earth?

if a Christian who Loves God and has served Him faithfully believes he is going to make heaven and not hell then how does that affect you?

"Good" is never done without a reason....or motivation. Nobody wakes up to doing good..there is always a motive.

It bothers me that Christians who claim to be the most moral are so morally bankrupt to be celebrating an idea that most people- whether good or bad are going to be burning for eternity... If as a Christian, you're satisfied with this and have never asked yourself the justice of it, then you're morality bankrupt...
And please there are people that are naturally good and altruistic without motivation.... Doctors that dedicate their lives to fighting TB and other diseases in poor African countries, people who give all their money to charity. These are good people...
I know that Christians try to be good because their religion requires them to be, so the idea of a person that is good without any selfish interest is foreign to you...

enshy:
So whats your hope?
After death, its judgment!

Judgment?? So you believe only Christians will go to heaven while every other person will go to hell, irrespective of whether they are good people or not.

Image123:
Many people also get healing and answers to prayers today without asking for it or deserving it. It is not news. People in the new testament also did not have their requests granted how they wanted it, nothing new or out of place. It adds and removes zilch.

That's not true... If Christians got healed as you claim, our hospitals wouldn't be that congested.
In fact, Jesus didn't heal only his followers, he healed different kinds of people. There are people who routinely go to hospital to pray for the patients... Despite that fact, your god no show

enshy:
So in this life and in that to come, you have no hope!
What a life you live, for nothing.
I live for God and I see the results on earth with a hope for the future!
Now not everyone who claims God or prays is of Him. God knows His own. There are principles to living in dominion, it doesnt drop from Heaven, its hid in Scriptures!
You know nothing about what next after death, so dont argue. You dont argue what you have no clue of.

You people really do make me laugh! So because I don't rely on a sky daddy for hand me downs, it means I have no hope? I have hope but not the false hope that your people hold on to and does nothing for you...
And yes, I know nothing about what's next after death but do you? Tell me what you know about what's next after death

enshy:
So lets break it down here: Is it really better for you than most of us here? What are your yardsticks?
You, I mean you, what do you have to show for not believing God?

Exactly my point... Things are not necessarily better for me. If they are, it's not because I don't believe in god. Atheism or deism or whatever don't promise you riches, good health or protection. Christianity does but despite the promises of God littered all over the bible, Christians don't have it better... They suffer the same things others do... Therefore, their god was either lying to them or he doesn't exist at all...

enshy:
No you dont get it...You guys are not knowledgeable to know Wise Men dont live for the present.
We dont live for today alone, we have eyes on the future, we have Hope!
You live for today, how wise are you?

Lolz... That's the lie they tell you people. Giving you false hope. That's how some Christians waited and waited till their old age and nothing significant happened in their lives... Christians keep believing it will be well not knowing some other Christians have died without things ever getting better for them.

Image123:
Jesus is God and He confessed to work the same way His Father works. If there's a discrepancy, it is with the people doing the asking. Even Jesus Christ didn't work miracles for 30years, which is over 90% of His life on earth physically.

Actually many of the people that Jesus healed didn't ask for it. Lazarus's sister already accepted that he had died, the man in with the withered hand in the temple, the woman with arthritis, the guy that was at the pool side for 38 years didn't ask for it.
Now we have Christians who are asking with tears and desperation and god is looking away and just stroking his beard, and you say it's the people that it's the problem.
In fact, during Jesus'time, only the people that heard of Jesus could ask him for anything, these days, billions of people around the world ask him for something every minute still he doesn't answer.

Your god won't do nothing for you since he doesn't exist... You have to make things work by yourself...

senorova:
Bundesliga > EPL? That's actually surprising. So na serie A EPL dey follow drag self...


Some people wee not like this

As in... The way they make noise... You would think they are the undisputed best.

The latest UEFA rankings of the best leagues: 1) La Liga
101.141 points. 2) Bundesliga 78.641. 3) EPL 73.962. 4) Serie A 71.498

The latest UEFA rankings of the best leagues: 1) La Liga
101.141 points. 2) Bundesliga 78.641. 3) EPL 73.962. 4) Serie A 71.498

MZLady39:
If God is my "abuser", I'd sure hate to see what the enemy is.
Nevertheless..He's one "abuser" I pray I never leave.

You just confirmed his theory....

Can this be true??... If it is, it's just sad.

Image123:
His word is about 66books, not just one verse or one chapter. It's like using an hour of meeting someone to judge all his life forever. Even at work, the best employee this year might not be the best in 20years even if he's still working there. Nobody holds on rigidly to the persons last year heroics. Same thing our friends, we know each other more with time. A person who knows God well wouldn't jettison, ignore or overlook over 60books and try to blackmail to some verse. Context and content are important. That you've never seen something don't mean it doesn't exist.

How many people did Jesus try to heal and he failed in the bible. How many? Now compare that to the number of sick Christians that God fails to heal... Do you see a discrepancy?

luvmijeje:
As I said reality will soon rain your parade.

Lolz... Reality, ko??
Person who believes in talking donkeys and virgin pregnancies talking about reality... The irony!

Intrepid01:
Maybe you need to ask me, what I meant by that. Being scientific means, you shouldn't disprove things on face value but rather have an open mind and seek means to find out the real truth.

THAT'S BEING SCIENTIFIC!

Science is reproducible, explainable. Subject to criticism. Does spirituality have any of that