₦airaland Forum

KolaShangOne:
Bros,

The 597 sqm was used on your building. Every roofing has waste / off cuts.

You owe him 200 x 597sqm. That's what Sonnie was trying to say.

If you decide to pay him less, you're not being fair to him.

You can ask your QS @QSFEMI how its done.

I still don't know how your roof has more than 100sqm "waste".

Kindly find attached below the estimates from @QSFemi. Please take note of the "Labour for fixing roofing sheets." Thanks.

I rest my case!

twinskenny:
Not bad.. the ABB board sure is original?

And the number 3x3 box look too much

I also expressed my reservations about the number of 3x3 box, but he insisted he would use all and that I could count them after he's done.

As for the ABB board, how can one tell the original from the fake? Thanks.

Please can someone assist in reviewing the attached quotation for electrical piping of a 4 bedroom bungalow? Thanks in advance.

PS: Most of the 20mm bendable pipes were put in place before casting lintel and roofing beams. What is left is mostly extensions for the socket pipes and a few other fresh additions.

CC: @Twinskenny, @Topsy

megacontrol:
I think you already know/have your answer.

If the labor was quoted as per sqm, then you should be paying per sqm of what was laid just like you'll do for tiles.
You should focus on how he can measure by himself, like suggest another artisan (tiler/PoP/painter) that may be on site to help him measure. or he should invite someone he trusts.

You need to make sure he's convinced you're not cheating him.

cheers

Thanks.

bobkezel:
In the case of overhead tank, the pressure difference is negligible...
His point is.... The negligibity of the pressure difference does not worth the Extra height/money.

It may be negligible to some, but not to others. That is an entirely subjective matter, and should be left to the client to decide. Haven personally experienced both scenarios, for me it is worth every extra penny.

sonnie10:
So far, the ones we have used go by actual quantity of roofing sheet used (Not L x B of a plain surface area). This is the receipt of the last one I paid for. Good luck with your project

I have no problem with that Sir, as long as that was the agreement before the job was awarded. Thanks.

sonnie10:
The actual job done include overlaps not just plain area

Actual area covered is the benchmark Sir. Nothing else matters. Good morning.

sonnie10:
Then 596 sqm x 200 is fair.

Hahaha...fair for whom? Installation fee agreement was not based on quantity of materials needed to do the job, but area of roof to cover, so how can that be fair to both parties Sir? The onus remains on the installer to confirm the actual area of roof covered, if he doesn't feel comfortable going with the QS estimate.

sonnie10:
Did you have any roofing tiles left other than the cuts offs after the project?

Yes Sir, 4 tiles were unused. That's why I said the job was eventually achieved with 596sqm rather than the 598sqm bought.

2 tiles cover about 1sqm

diordaves:
This is a classical case of under quoting. It is a form of fraud in the building trade.

Going forward, always go by your QS. You should have called this out from inception and probably look somewhere else.

It's deliberate.

Me I just think the guy doesn't really know how to calculate Areas of geometric shapes sha.

visaclick:
don't be too strick like that or artisans will mess you up oh. painful part is no matter what u do damage is done and That's why on foundation level you don't pay per block.

It's not about being strict Sir. It's about keeping to agreements (by both parties).

Sometimes brick layers do per day payment terms or ball park figure to cover the entire job. If you had that agreement prior to onset of the job, then both parties should stick to it.

By the way, I did per block in foundation stage as well, after the form work phase.

sonnie10:
They are not necessarily waste. It is part of what must be done towards achieving the desire style or pattern. Those tiles come in a fixed shape and must be cut to size. It is beyond what the installer could control. Any installer would do the same.

Blocks also come in fixed shape and sizes, but only laid pcs are paid for as long the agreement is per block. Whatever project you are doing, as long as the payment terms is per square meter, it doesn't matter how much materials eventually does the work or how much wastes. The payment remains per square meter of area done. Same goes for tiling, POP, wall cladding, etc, etc.

ollykay619:
Please which QS did you engage

QSFemi

sonnie10:
But they was another negotiating after the initial titles provided was exhausted. You said that 498 sqm. None was wasted, they all went into your project.
Then additional was provided, which required more of his labor. He deserves to be compensated for this addition.

Off-cuts are wastes. There is no way all of rectangular roofing tiles can be used in roofs with triangular and other shapes. You must have off-cuts at the edges or rigde cap areas

sonnie10:
Let’s assume he decided to stop working at that initial stage when the first 498 sqm of tiles were used up, how much or at what rate would you have paid him?

You mean 443? I would have paid for 354sqm, which is what he gave as the area. The 443 included 25% waste.

sonnie10:
In hindsight, if he knew you would be reviewing the labor, I doubt if he would have agreed to do the job for the total amount in the first place.

Most people that would charge you less for labour usually do the materials supply as well. The gain either ways. But this installer is only getting what he feels is a ball pack figure.
Like you said, he might be less knowledgeable in these calculations but he knows how much work that goes into a project after initial inspection.

I did not review the labour by the way. It remains 200/sqm. Bone of contention is what that sqm entails.

sonnie10:
In hindsight, if he knew you would be reviewing the labor, I doubt if he would have agreed to do the job for the total amount in the first place.

Most be that would charge you less for labour usually do the materials supply as well. The gain either way. But this installer is only getting what he feels is a ball pack figure.
Like you said, he might be less knowledgeable in these calculations but he know how much work that goes into a project after initial inspection.

I have made a couple of concessions on this roofing already. The roof has 5 storm breakers, for which he also took measurements and charged me 12k for each. I paid the full 60k for the 5 storm breakers up front. He did them, only to later come up with 5k installation fee for each storm breaker. That means I have to pay additional 25k to install them. He never mentioned this initially, but I accepted it all the same.

Another thing is I also paid for his hotel accommodation, which was never part of our agreement, but I still did it in good faith.

Haba, nor be everything client go they swallow like that abeg.

sonnie10:
If we apply this your analogy to the roofing, it means you pay for each tile, whether he cuts it or not. That would then be 598 sqm.

No Sir, in this case the unit of measurement is sqm, and not pcs. So you don't pay for each pc laid, but each sqm laid, that's the difference.

Modified: Each sqm covered rather!

bobkezel:
Don't mind him, you pay for the area he covered.

I believe his main problem is that he thinks I want to cheat him with the estimate from the QS, since he can't really confirm the Area due to knowledge gaps in calculation. But I shouldn't pay for his ignorance na.

bobkezel:
In other words, if my floor is 50sqm and I negotiated 1000/sqm with the tiler but I bought 120sqm tiles, then the tiler used/wasted 118sqm, therefore I should pay him 118000 instead of 50000.....

Yes cutting off takes labour therefore if a tiler sneezes I pay, if he dances I pay, if he wastes my tile I still pay.

sonnie10:
Labor charge is not just the amount required for nailing the tiles on the wood. There are other logistics.
Did the installer give the labor charge as per square on the original quote or was it a ball pack?
Go back and look at the quote, if there is no place something like below was stated

AB amount by 125sqm = x amount

Then, pay him the complete money. He might have charged just by eye balling.

visaclick:
regular W

This is exactly what went down:

Before I engaged the installer, I hired a Quantity Surveyor on this forum to do the roofing estimate for me (installer did not know this). The QS estimate for the actual area to be covered was 478sqm, but with 25% addition (making 598sqm) to account for wastes.

Now wood work for the roof was done exactly as designed on the architectural drawings (no addition or subtraction) and the final cost of the wood work was very close to the QS estimate as well.

After wood work, I engaged the installer and we agreed 200/sqm as installation fee. He took his measurements, did his calculations and came up with an area of 354sqm to be covered.

Now considering the significant difference between the figures from QS and installer, I decided to go with the installer's figure so as not to incur a huge loss, in case the QS figure was wrong. So I added 25% to installer's estimate and ordered 443sqm, which was made known to installer.

So he did 443sqm initially, and it covered only about 3 quarters of the roof. Installer then calculated the remaining uncovered area, and came up with an additional 150sqm to complete the job. This time though I decided to ignore installer's calculation and went with the original estimate from the QS and got an additional 155sqm to make a total of 598sqm.

The roof was eventually covered with a total of 596sqm, which is in line with the QS estimate.

Now, the installer is insisting his installation fee is 200 × 598 (not even 596 that did the job), while I'm insisting I will only pay for area of roof installed (excluding off-cuts), which should be like 200 × 478 (going by the estimate from QS).

I have told the installer, if he doubts the estimated area from the QS, he can repeat his measurements and calculations, but the guy is saying it will never be the same as that of the QS, that I must pay according to the total area of sheets bought.

Nor be small argument for site today o. We almost came to blows

redgem:
Do they charge per sqm for roofing or they just give their price?

They do either. It all depends on your agreement.

sonnie10:
He is the one doing the cut off. It takes labor to do that.

When you pay a brick layer per block laid, it also takes labour to break blocks, but agreement is agreement. If the brick layer breaks a block into 2 pcs and only lays 1 pc, you count only the pc laid, and not the pc wasted. If he laid both pcs from 1 block, it is counted as 2 pcs laid.

The same applies to roofing, only the areas laid are counted, and not the off-cuts.

sonnie10:
Labor charge is not just the amount required for nailing the tiles on the wood. There are other logistics.
Did the installer give the labor charge as per square on the original quote or was it a ball pack?
Go back and look at the quote, if there is no place something like below was stated

AB amount by 125sqm = x amount

Then, pay him the complete money. He might have charged just by eye balling.

The agreement before he took the job was 200/sqm....this is not in contention.

The problem now is both of us have different understanding of what that sqm entails...does it include the entire sqm of rectangular sheets needed including the off-cuts, or just the actual area of roof covered excluding the off-cuts?

redgem:
100sqm

Thank you. That's exactly what I'm trying to explain to this installer, but the guy no wan hear word. His problem is that he can't even calculate the area of the roof (his calculation was even far less than the actual area of the roof), so he's using the total square meter bought to calculate his fee.

I have shown him the area as calculated from the architectural design (and the roof was done exactly as designed), and explained to him that 25% was added to account for waste, but this guy still insists I pay for his ignorance

Hello guys,
Please I have a question @everyone. Assuming the exact surface area of a roof is 100sqm but owner buys 125sqm to account for waste, will the installation fee be calculated with 100sqm or 125sqm? Thanks.

Yampotatocarrot:
Sir, If you don't mind. Is it your architect that handles the designs or does the client bring the design he wants, then you build?

What happens when the structure drawn by the client's architect is not feasible on the said land... Let's say measurement issues or something of that nature?

Architects usually do their designs with the survey plan of the land. If the client does not have a survey plan, at least they'd need to know the shape and size of the land.

visaclick:
it is always worth th spending my brother. On a good day you get late for work and wants to take a quick shower, that slow h20 can be so anoyying. I have told my dad to be patient for me to fix his because now even when the water level is not up to half the tank they have to turn on the pumping machine because the water flow will be too lanimar that even a 20litres bucket will take forever.

Agreed 100%. My current tank stand is high enough to service a duplex, even though the house itself is just a bungalow. Did it deliberately to enjoy more water pressure, especially with the shower...

michlins:
sir, like I said,if you believe 40ft tank will give you the required pressure on a bungalow be willing to pay for it and I will be willing to do same for you

Of course, we all know that the higher the tank stand, the higher the cost. No one is arguing that fact. If a client wants more water pressure, s/he must be willing to foot the bill.

michlins:
Until lately, tanks are placed on the rooftop and the water pressure is adequate for the home it's meant for. What suddenly changed or are you discussing issues you know absolutely nothing about.

Gravity is same everywhere, you don't increase gravity by increasing height of the fall.

Once your tank is above your shower head, you already have enough pressure you need.

That being said,if you want to do 60ft for a bungalow, it's your money and I have zero control on how you choose to spend it. If anything, focus should be on the foundation of the tank stand.

If you drop an egg-sized stone on to your head from a height just an inch above your head, you'll hardly get hurt, but just imagine same stone falling from the top of a four storey building on to your head on the ground floor ....My brother, height does matter a lot, no need to argue this one abeg.

money121:
Bond 3900 persqm
That ridge cap is available
Let know how many pcs and colour u need

Whatsapp 08085310359

I need black (charcoal black). Don't know the number of pieces of ridge cap, but enough to cover 170m.

What's the thickness of that bond and where was it manufactured?

Compliments of the season @everyone!

Please does anybody know where one can get these types of ridge caps (stone coated) attached below and how much they cost?

Secondly, how much are bond stone coated roofing sheets at the moment?

CC: @Money121