₦airaland Forum

delpee:
Interesting! I'm surprised actually. I've been to Anambra and Enugu before and assumed they're full Igbo states. Thanks for enlightening me.

Our inlaws from Anambra claim Igbo ancestry with a traditional title attached to the family (Chief). Probably a mixed or acquired heritage based on your analysis.

Surely, you know what this guy wrote is a load of crock.

Igala villages do exist in Anambra and Enugu, but they are a small collection of tiny villages in Anambra West and Ụzọ-Ụwani LGAs. They are so small and so invisible that many people in Anambra and Enugu don't even know they exist. And they are certainly not richer than the Igbo. If anything their areas are impoverished and inaccessible.

akunjohn:
You nailed it, sometimes ago around 1994 to 1996,I was posted to Idah for a road projects with my friends from Ibadan and before we left that place, we've mastered the language very well...they always call us omoyaji...
My colleagues even got married there.
The good old days

This Omoyaji sounds like Iyagi or Ayagi, which is used in parts of Northern Nigeria to mean 'a Yoruba person'. I think it originates from a Nupe exonym for the Yoruba people. In some parts of Anioma you may hear "Nyenji" used for a Yoruba person which originates from the same Nupe expression.

shortIGBOman:
The entire Anambra is IGALA ancestral State, half of Enugu is also Igala. Most of those wealthy people you see as Igbo are actually Igala. The IGALA in Anambra and Enugu are actually richer than the Igbo who live in those areas

The reason why the Igala embrace Igbo language is that, Igbo language is the language of trade in that Region. Just like Hausa is that language of trade in the North. Which forced other minorities in that region to speak Hausa.

A whole lot of gibberish.

samonak:
I am Idoma and my mum is part Igala, so I should know better, there a lot of similar words in Idoma and Igala. Both languages also bear the similar names.

These similarities are because they've been neighbours for centuries and have mixed and borrowed from one another. Lexically, Igala is still closer to Yoruba by far than to Idoma. The closeness between Igala and Yoruba are so much so that experts believe they both separated from a common language stock.

They have the Igbu cult in Ukwuani too. Even some Isoko people have it, and they copied from Ukwuani.

rusher14:
Did you ever expect a different outcome?

I was hoping that after 33 years, and after the Ayatollah had lifted the fatwa, these people would have calmed down.

But alas, the religion of 'peace' never disappoints.

rusher14:
I know you are either a kid or you don't know the history of the issue.

I'll forgive you for your ignorance.

What history? That 33 years ago he wrote a book that hurt the feelings of Muslim fanatics?

Kvvngkhalifa202:
How true is this?

The proper name of Akwaibom is Akaigbo which means branch of Igbo

The proper name of Ibibio is Igbonta.

Owerri is Owenke eri.

Of all the things wrong with this thread, these ones stand out for me.

idomalord:
Effect of too much beans

This one no be beans. More like a pituitary gland defect.

HustlingHustler:
Hi guys,
I am currently running my masters degree here in Nigeria with few months to finish before the ASUU strike came.
I have plan to use the certificate to boost my Japa plan initially. I have also invested alot of time and resources into the study.
With each day passing, I am getting really tired of Nigeria and I feel my time is been wasted.
I don't know if I should just start applying to schools abroad to start afresh or wait to finish this course in Nigeria.

If your BSc is good (at least a 2.1), look for MSc scholarships abroad abeg. And if you get one, abandon the program you're doing here and fly off.

This shouldn't even be a question. I know someone who was months away from finishing his PhD that he had labored on for years. He got a PhD scholarship to Sweden and abandoned the Nigerian PhD.

Use your punctuations, sir. This was very difficult to read and understand.

macof:
Thanks for this knowledge. You should do a series on words in other languages with igbo origins using etymological breakdowns like this because we rarely see igbo language broken down..
At least I don't

If I choose to have this conversation, there are people here who will accuse me of revising history and land grabbing.

But one day.

Iha Ominigbon (one of the two prominent divination systems among the Edo, the other being the Yoruba-imported Orunmila system) was introduced by Igbo Dibies, and there are linguistic/etymological evidence and even some indirect oral tradition evidence that point to this.

Jidasem:
Lmao, Yoruba speaker is someone who speaks Yoruba, which is what he is, he speaks Yoruba in his songs, not Ekpeye, his mother is Yoruba, he seems more connected to his yoruba side. Who is claiming him, I just stated facts. I have no bone to pick here lol.

Burna boy's mother Bose Ogulu is not Yoruba. She's Edo, from Owan. Don't let her first name deceive you. Many Edo people, for whatever reason, use Yoruba names. Her maiden name is Idonije, pure Edo name. Her mother is Yoruba though.

"Yoruba speaker" makes no sense as an identifier. Almost every prominent Nigerian artiste infuses Yoruba phrases into their lyrics. It's the Lagos influence, that's all.

Burna boy's first hit sef 'Tonight' had Igbo lyrics in it. Nobody dey call am "Igbo speaker" based on that. Timaya, Ijaw boy from Bayelsa, used Igbo lyrics liberally in his early works; I've never seen anybody call him "Igbo speaker" based on that.

"Yoruba speaker" as used by you is just a ludicrous attempt at attaché.

Jidasem:
Yoruba speaker burna boy made odogwu igbo word popular. "when i reach igbo land dem they call me odogwu", so the lyric goes.

Lmao. Which one is "Yoruba speaker" again. Burna boy is part-Rivers (Ekpeye) and part Edo. But this one now is wants to use "Yoruba speaker" to lay some kind of claim to him.

What have I not seen on this app.

Thebadpolitican:
Benin were d only tribe in Nigeria skilled in wood carvings....

Nigerians can be very audacious with ignorant and arrogant nonsense because WTF is this?

samuk:
Even in the Igbo heartland of South East, there are community that traces their migrations back to Benin. So in telling us the Igbo tribes Benin borrowed the word Idumwun from, avoid those Igbo tribes that traces their origin to Benin.

See that thing I am saying. While I am talking about linguistics, you seem to be focused on traditions of migration. These are two topics belonging to different realms of enquiry. But every time I discuss with Benin and Igala people they seem unable to separate the study of the origin of words from a study of migration traditions. It gets quite frustrating.

So Benin borrowed Idumwun from Igbo in the 1500s and spread it across the empire, don't forget Benin was already in Lagos by 1500s, a time that have no evidence of the word Igbo.

I don't remember saying Benin learnt idumu from the Igbo in the 1500s. I don't remember putting a date to when this linguistic transaction occurred. So I don't know what you're talking about here. For the records, the Igbo and the Edo were probably in contact long before the 1500s.

The earliest Igbo writer Equiano didn't even mention his tribe as Igbo in the 1700s, about 200 years after Benin arrived Lagos.

You have said this about Equiano before, and I told you you were wrong and had probably not read Equiano's book. Equiano clearly said he was 'Eboe' in his book. And even if he didn't (he did), what does that have to do with anything?

When people say there was no 'Igbo' before the 20th century, they make it sound like Europeans arrived, waved a magic wand and suddenly the people there started saying 'bia' and 'igwe' and 'ede'. A people who were linguistically 'Igbo' had existed there for a long time before the Igbo ethnogenesis of the 20th century happened. The people were fully capable of spreading Igbo lexical items before pan-Igbo ethnic identity developed. I didn't think this was something that had to be explained to anyone, but apparently it is.

samuk:
You are trying to over simplify the discussion by saying Igbo word, Igbo is made up of various tribes, which of these numerous Igbo tribes did my ancestors borrowed the word Idumwun from.

I am very sure that Idumwun is only confined to only those Igbo community that share close affinity or historical links with Benin and not the wider Igbo nation. I am sure numerous Igbo people don't use the word Idumwun and probably doesn't even know the meaning.

You are committing the same logical fallacy as some of our yoruba neighbours by trying to play with similar words in both cultures in the name of etymology. Perhaps you should begin to research the etymological titles of obas of Benin who obviously had Edo names and let see how far you can go. Numerous Edo words and some of their meanings and buried in antiquity.

Since you insist that Edo borrowed the word from Igbo, please tell us which of the tribes of
Igbo Benin borrowed it from and don't forget core Igbo are in the south east, Anioma/Ika have several Edo people. Even in the Igbo heartland of South East, there are community that traces their migrations back to Benin.

What you're trying to do is reduce this to a conversation about 'migration traditions' and I am determined to keep it in the realm of linguistics, because what I am talking about is LINGUISTICS, pure and simple.

Idu and Ụmụ are linguistically Igbo. All of Igboland doesn't have to use the compound term Idumu coined from these two words, before it's linguistic origin could be recognizable as Igbo. Same way all of Igboland doesn't have to use 'mini wiri' before its etymology could be recognizable as Igbo.

I am still asking you for an Edo etymology, but you're carefully avoiding the request, perhaps because you know there is none?

samuk:
Idumwun like you said means a community. The ancient Benin created several Idumwun across the empire, Idomota (Idumwun Ota) in Lagos means a community were people come together for a meeting/discussion, Idumagbo is another of such Lagos Benin community, even the present location of the Lagos (Benin) monarchy Idunganran. Benin created several Idumwun in eastern yoruba and Ika land.

I do not doubt that Benin took "Idumwun" to Lagos. What is in question is the etymological roots of the word itself. Europeans brought potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco, cassava and maize to us, but all of these words "potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco, cassava, maize" are not European words. They are Native American words.

Your ancestors may have taken idumwun to wherever, but the word itself is Igboid. If you have a satisfactory Edo etymology for it, then provide it and let us examine it.

samuk:
You said Idumwun have it's root in both Esan and Igbo but was quick to limit your Igbo to Anioma. Does Idumwun also have its etymological root in the several other tribes that make up the wider Igbo community.

Nope. I didn't say it has roots in both Esan and Igbo. It's origin is unequivocally Igbo, and diffused to both Esan and Benin. You didn't understand what I said there.

And, no. The Southeasterners don't use idumu to mean quarters like is done in Anioma, but this doesn't mean that etymologically the roots of 'Idumu' cannot be understood by a Southeasterner. It was an Anioma innovation but linguistically is still Igboid. To give an example: in the southeast, soup is called 'ofe' in Standard Igbo, but the Ikwerre of Rivers State call it 'mini wiri'. But does it mean "mini wiri" is not Igboid? No. 'mini wiri' is cognate with 'miri nri' which means 'food' s water' or 'sauce for eating food' in Igbo. The Ikwerre word is therefore still etymologically Igbo, even if it isn't used in Central/Standard Igbo. It's the same basic concept with Idumu.

Idumwun is an Edo word that was contributed to Anioma branch of Igbo by Edo people that share the Anioma space with various other tribes, this is the reason Idumwun may not resonate with Igbo from Abia, Anambra or Imo.

Then you should be able to break it done into its constituent units and explain it. But you apparently can't. And while we are on the topic of Igbo expressions loaned to Edo:

I hope you won't disagree that the "Uku" that appears in the praise name of your Oba "Uku Akpolokpolo" is from the Igbo word for "big or great".

Or that the Edo word for gun, osisi, is from the Igbo word for stick (applied to the early daneguns because they looked like long sticks), and is still used to describe guns throughout Anioma.

Or that the Edo word for skirt buluku, is from the Igbo word 'mbuluku' or 'mbunuku' or 'mbenuku/mbenukwu', which in Igbo means 'that which is girded around the waist'.

The Igbo language is still evolving, borrowing from various ancient and much older cultures around her. It's the aggregates of these various ancient cultures that gave birth to Igbo.

Which language isn't continually evolving and borrowing? What exactly is the point of this paragraph?

It's possible that Benin could have pick something from one of those tribes that came together to form Igbo, but which of them.

Deliberately evasive. I will be waiting for an Edo etymology of Idu and Idumwun. Cheers.

One of the problems I have with the neighbours of Igbo-speaking peoples, especially the Edo and the Igala, is that they have this hardened belief that their cultural relationship with the Igbo was one-way, and that the Igbo were always on the receiving end of cultural influence from them, while they never picked up anything from the Igbo. Anytime the Edo man or the Igala man comes across something he shares with his Igbo neighbor, the tendency is to jump to the conclusion (without consideration to linguistic and etymological logic) that the Igbo must have learnt it from them.

The first question to ask about "Idu" is: if Idu was an Edo endonym for themselves, how do you explain the fact that none of their neighbours historically used this word for them, except for the Igbo? Edo (Benin) people had ancient interactions with Yoruba, Urhobo, Iteskiri, Esan, but they did not take "Idu" to them, except to the Igbo and Igboid people to the east. How? Why?

There's only one logical explanation: the word was an Igbo word to begin with, an Igbo exonym for Benin.

And Idu actually does have Igbo meanings:

One, it means 'bush'.
Two (and this is the meaning that is more relevant to this discussion), it means 'a crowd', 'an agglomeration of people' or 'a community'.

The Igbo called Benin "Idu n'Oba" which means "the Community of the Oba" or "The Oba's Community" in Igbo. Often rendered simply for the sake of brevity as "Idu."

Idu or Iduu is still used even in parts the southeast to mean 'people' or 'community', especially in the Omambala area.

Could you kindly give me an Edo etymology of "Idu"? Having ancient Idu-named shrines doesn't confer an Edo provenance on the name; it only indicates an ancient relationship between the Igbo and the Edo.

Even your word "Idumwun" (called Idumu by Esan and us in Anioma) is an Igboid term in its etymological roots.

I can break down "Idumu" to meaningful units in Igbo:

Idu = community
Ụmụ = children/descendants

Idumuobi (common name of lineages in Anioma) = community of the descendants of the Obi.

Idumuje (in Esan) = community of the descendants of the Oje, i.e., the royal quarters.

Idumwun Ewaise (in Benin) = community of the descendants of the royal physicians and diviners.

Again, could you offer an etymology for your "Idumwun"?

samuk:
According to you Idu is an Igbo word, yet its severally referenced in Benin, both in names of individuals, locations and shrine.

Idu, AKA, Efa and Emehi are ancient Benin names. The fact that the Urhobo call Benin people AKA people doesn't mean its an Urhobo word, AKA like Efa, Emehi and Idu, all have verifiable historical landmarks in Benin.

These verifiable historical references to these ancient names were not just created yesterday. The reason the Benin/Ife connection is having serious problems is due to lack of verifiable historical references in Benin.

The fact that the word 'Idu' was incorporated into Benin's cultural space in the forms you've mentioned is testament to early intimate relationship between the Benin people and their neighbours to the east.

Idu etymologically is an Igbo word. What does it mean in Edo? I know of at least two meanings of Idu in Igbo.

A few missed ones:

Ogilisi or Egbo tree.
Ogbu tree.

YungMillionaire:
Peter Obi the political prostitute. From APGA to PDP from PDP to Labor. Peter Obi is one of the most corrupt politicians in Nigeria's history. Look at the way he is publicly buying votes from poor Ibos while campaigning for Atiku. Notice he is wearing PDP uniform and sweating
profusely like a rabid dog. Look at the look on his ugly corrupt face. Look at that face! God forbid!

You can't be a Tinubu supporter and be talking about people's looks. The irony is too rich. Must be crack, or (Tinubu's) heroin.

thebosstrevor1:
I will read first before commenting, i will advise you all to do that too.

There is no evidence to show that tinubu was a drug lord in that investigation.

Was he involved in money laundering, yes

Was he accused of not paying tax in the US - Yes

The real drug lord is Lee andrew edwards, he was a supplier of white Heroin to Tinubu's Cousin.

Tinubu was a money Mole for his drug dealer counsin.

The Money in Tinubu US bank account ( $1.2M) was ceased because the fbi linked it to his cousin Heroin Business


For anybody that prefer the truth over FAKENEWS.

Download and read
https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/download.html?id=209706498&a=1&z=d813b7da

Una funny for this country. Laundering money for a drug trafficking ring = being involved in drug business = being a drug criminal.

Idu as a historical person is very unlikely. Idu is an exonym, a name given to Benin by Igbo people. It is an Igbo term (with Igbo meanings), and not an Edo term. It's re-invention as a person is likely the result of latter-day mythopoesis.

IbileIfe:
Abraham never came before Igbo Ukwu.
There is evidence of Late Stone Age (late Paleolithic) human presence from at least 10,000 years ago. Early settlement of Igboland is dated to 6000 BC based on pottery found in the Okigwe, Oka Igwe, and known today as Awka.
It has been confirmed that there was an Igbo Kingdom before Abraham.
Igbo Ukwu existed since the Bronze Age.
Abraham existed afterwards in the Iron Age.

I will not debate this.

Canadian scholar John Van Seters argued in his 1975 book Abraham in History and Tradition the Biblical patriarchs were Iron Age creations, based on the content, names and messages of their stories.

Case closed.

You need to spend many many more years studying history before you can talk about it. Because frankly you are just jumbling a lot of things up! Like, I do not even know where to begin correcting you on the chronology mistakes you keep making.

The stone age findings at Okigwe, Afikpo, Nsukka etc are older than "Abraham". But the bronze findings from Igbo-Ukwu ARE NOT!

I put "Abraham" in inverted commas because it seems you understand that Abraham might have been a myth. If however we accept him to be a historical figure, there is no way we can place him as late as the later half of the first millennium AD, which is where radiocarbon dating places Igbo-Ukwu. By the later half of the first millennium AD, Christianity, the daughter-religion of Judaism (a religion associated in its early more primitive days with Abraham) was already a world religion, which means that we cannot place a historical Abraham anywhere near as late as the first millennium AD. Simple logic!

Stop throwing around words like "the Bronze Age" when you don't really understand the context that they are used in world history.

The Middle East/Europe entered the Bronze Age long before the use of bronze was recorded in Sub-Saharan Africa. Sub-Saharan Africans (outside of Kush) learnt to work iron quite early, but didn't use bronze until much later in their history, in the centuries after Christ. For this reason, Sub-Saharan Africans didn't have a true bronze age, because we went from the stone age straight into the iron age; whereas, Eurasians went from a stone age to a bronze age and finally to an iron age.
I doubt that you'll even understand what I am saying, given how screwed up your understanding of history is.

Policy makers in this country really messed up by not taking history education serious, leaving people to miseducate themselves on the internet.

IbileIfe:
You are right.
Igbo Ukwu was 9th Century BC.
Abraham was 11th Century BC.
The 11th century is the period from 1001 (MI) through 1100 (MC) in accordance with the Julian calendar, and the 1st century of the 2nd millennium.

Igbo Ukwu, Ife and Benin civilization began during the Bronze Age.
The Bronze Age started in the third millennium B.C. But White historians have deliberately lied that they were situated during AD to relegate our ancient civilizations under the ancient Egypt when in actual fact the oldest monarchies in Africa were in Igbo Ukwu, Ife and Benin.

KERMA AND NAPATA
The Kushites were first based in Kerma, and then at Napata - both towns in what is now northern Sudan.

Kerma was an advanced society and archaeological evidence shows that ceramics were being produced by 8,000 BC - earlier than in Egypt. By about 1700 BC, the town had grown into a town of 10,000 people with a complex hierarchical society.

There is evidence of Late Stone Age (late Paleolithic) human presence from at least 10,000 years ago. Early settlement of Igboland is dated to 6000 BC based on pottery found in the Okigwe, Oka Igwe, and known today as Awka.

LOL. So many things to unpack here.

First of all, it appears you don't understand chronology. 11th century BC came before 9th century BC. So, by your own dating, Abraham still came before Igbo-Ukwu.

Secondly, you say the white people lied about the age of Igbo-Ukwu. Alright. Did you carry out an independent radiocarbon-dating or any other form of dating of the archaeolgocal sites and came up with a date older than the ones obtained by Thurstan Shaw? If you did, why didn't you publish your findings? If you published your findings, where can one read it?

Ndibunna:
Trash.

What of the Igbo man who can speak Hausa fluently. Inferiority complex.

Same thing I was thinking. There are lots of Igbos who speak fluent Hausa. They (the Hausas) don't consider it a big deal over there. In fact, some of them expect you to know their language, while they generally have no interest in yours.

Abraham was born in the 11th century AD?

Do you understand what you just wrote?

YonkijiSappo:
Owa - Owa is a word mostly used by the Ijeshas, Ekitis and some Akoko groups to refer to a ruler. I speak neither of these dialects, but it certainly has its origins as well. If I am to guess the 'O' is a pronoun of person, while the wa is probably what remains of a more elaborate term that has contracted and lost some consonants over ages, making the deciphering of its exact meaning more difficult.
Same way what Yorubas called Ooni today was in the middle ages called "Owoni" and its original form was Oghone.

So, that is that.

According to Isola Olomola, Owa comes from an archaic Yoruba word for 'great house'. The word still survives in the ikedu records, where we find Owigho (Owa Igho) meaning "House of Money". Note that the ancient Egyptians also used a word that meant 'great house' (i.e., Pharoah) to refer to their rulers. Also, the word 'obi' used in Anioma area of Delta State to refer to kings has a similar meaning.

Interestingly, the word for 'house' in Edo areas is still Owa.

UGBE634:
what then makes one ijaw? You mean they can just wake up tommorow and say Esan is Ijaw and she will be

Well, if the Esan then agrees that they are Ijaw and joins Ijaw National Congress (the way Obolo and these other groups have), who are we to tell them what to do with their lives and identities?

Ohali and Nwajari. These sound like some names we use in Anioma. Ohai and Nwajeri or Nwajei.