₦airaland Forum

AreaFada2:
All Lamogun greeters descended from an Oba at one point or the other. Since Oba Eweka 1. One reason you see them across all of Edo South and beyond is that some may have been descendants of dukes sent to rule various parts of Edo land. Most dukes were princes and in the past few hundred years, exclusively princes. However, for some, their connection may lie too far in the past to know their exact royal ancestor but most will know which Oba they descended from.

There is no provision to give up Lamogun just because you were royally related too long ago. You keep your salutation in perpetuity unless female and married. You then follow your hubby's own.

Morning salutation or lineage is something every Benin person is proud of and won't relinquish it for any another salutation unless married females.

Some ancient dukes were not paternally related to Ogiso or Oba dynasty or were notable warriors or otherwise performed great deeds for the kingdom and may therefore have own unique lineage greeting granted them.

Ah. I see. Thanks.

UGBE634:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZQZl-yyNqE

This is what this man had to say about it, that is the Esogban of Benin, the second most important chief in Benin after the Iyase, also he is currently 93 years old. Hear what he has to say about it. Timestamp 4:50-5:23


Building on that, there are 3 lineages that greet Lamogun in Benin. They seem to be break away lineages from that of the Oba of Benin. The answer to the greeting itself suggest so. The answer usually follows like this, Ovbi'Umogun'Oza, Ovbio-Oba dudu' Ovbia-Noyeama, Ovbia-nanioboda etc these are usually praises of the family when someone salute Lamogun

Even Izoduwa did not know he was from the Oba's family. He had done the history of his community and family before he found out that his family are not originally from the community he is from in Orhiowmon, but that they migrated down from Evbiewmen in Benin.

Now Evbiewmen is a quarter where Oba's other children are sent to reside when the first son is crowned. And maybe one or two other sons have been sent to man other communities. The rest are usually sent to Evbiewmen.

They are the Oba of Benin's family
Enogie of Ehor's family
Enogie of Ugboko Evbomode

lineage greeting 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpv5ykqlyGw
It is the second greeting there

Lineage greeting 5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOBY3QxokR0

Lineage greeting 64 and 71, you will find the Enogie of Ehor and Enogie Ugboko Evbomode.

Now that there are families that are from the Oba's family but do not greet Lamogun is not in doubt. E.g lauhe etc but that there are families not related to the Oba that greet Lamogun alongside with the Oba is highly unlikely. Although According to Chief Osewmengie Ero, the Oba bought it from Igun street, but that any family alongside not related to the Oba's family will greet Lamogun wherever the person might even be in Benin Kingdom is unlikely going by what chief Esogban said in Timestamp 4:50-5:23.

And also alluding to the response giving to such person given to the person who salute Lamogun, it is exclusively the Oba's ego's response that is given

It is possible to greet Lamogun and not know you are related to the Oba's family (you might just explain it away with oh, maybe we are one of the descendants of Igun street people)until you decide to do your research and see that you are a migrant family from the community you are from and that you are related to the Oba

That was helpful. Thanks.

The extinction of all minority languages (and even most of the majority ones) in Nigeria is an inevitable fate. Best thing we can do for ourselves now is to intensively document these languages for future scholars, historians and linguists, so that when they do die, there at least will be something left behind, because die they eventually will. In the ever homogenizing global world, they simply cannot compete with global languages.

Even larger and more widely spoken African languages like Hausa and Swahili will eventually succumb to the onslaught of global languages, unless Northern Nigeria and the Eastern African bloc become technologically advanced superpowers and deploy their language in teaching science and the arts at all levels to its citizens.

As long as any language group is still teaching calculus, philosophy, chemistry, physics and poetry to its citizens in English or French, I don't care how big that language group is, or how vibrant they think their language is, that language is endangered and has at most a few hundred years to go.

samuk:
Lamogun was not always the greetings of the oba of Benin, it originally belongs to Igun Street. The Oba bought it from them. Those that migrated from Igun Street in ancient time before Lamogun was appropriated by the Oba would have taken it with them.

OK, thanks.

UGBE634:
Idu is an Udo thing not a Benin thing, Benin as a city is too recent for the pa Idu story. The earliest of Binis lived in Udo. You cannot be attributing Udo glory to Benin. Check around you, it is common knowledge, everyone greeting La-Idu are from Udo.

It is also common knowledge that the first Ogisos lived in Udo going by Etsako and Urhobo narratives as against some Binis who would want to attribute Udo's glory to Benin. Udo is our oldest town by a mile, it is uncontested. The Eriwmin-Idu shrine in Udo is mightier than the one in Benin. That shows its root.

Can I ask you a small question? I was recently speaking with a man from Umoghun n'Okhua, and he said their greeting is Lamogun. I was under the impression that this greeting was exclusive to the Oba's family in Benin.

Are their non-Ọba lineages, especially in Iyekorhionmwon that use Lamogun?

Edeyoung:
Bleep off bro


I don't see why you're here we are not discussing benin-ibo today samuk has done a good job unreveling how we sacrificed your ancestors to our gods

Again I am not Gregyboy

Don't burst an artery, Gregyboy. The healthcare system isn't so good where you are. You might die. 😂

I was never here to get into this unending Edo-Yoruba feud. I corrected a misrepresentation and went back to the sidelines.

And where did Samuk "unrevel" [sic] that my people in Anioma were sacrificed to your gods, and why would anyone be proud of such a display of barbarism, assuming it did happen? 🤔

Edeyoung:
Rather did many research in benin city he did more writing in benin history than any tribe in Nigeria

You saying rather not knowing the yoruba history to draw conclusions in the Benin-ife relationship is absurd

If Ryder could somehow trace the benin relationship to nupe then he definitely saw fragment of evidence between both areas, he could likewise have also seen for the yorubas too but non was there and don't assume that the edo environment has somehow eroded it away when we know it was never even there

Ryder acted on the agreement of both the edos and yoruba historian on the benin-ife history is not something he discovered himsef like that of the nupe-benin relationship, he went ahead to give it a sense of believe and did is research and found nothing


We all know the benin-ife relationship is a political game that was played during the early formation of Nigeria to unite both tribe under a strong political presence

No matter how old an interaction between two tribe took place there must be a relics left by the one that was later absorbed

Good morning, Gregyboy. How are you today? I will be lying if I say I haven't missed your incoherence. 🙂

scholes0:
I saw the Idu thread. Wasn't it the one talking about Idumu/Idumwun (A community of people argument)?

Yes.

I remember him too.
Those were old timers when culture section used to pop.

The conversation back then was a lot more intellectually stimulating.

scholes0:
Like, I just tire.

To be fair though, Ugbe634 has been more pragmatic that the rest of these ones just doing bandwagon activism.

Yea, I remember arguing with him once about the origin and etymology of 'Idu'. He disagreed very strongly with my position, which I understand. All things put together he is more pragmatic and objective than most other Benin people on here.

Another pragmatic Benin nairalander, who no longer uses this platform was bokohalal.

samuk:
RedboneSmith was already here, he got a bloody nose and ran away. He may just come back swigging after reading this my reply. Let me go and look for body armour for protection.

Bloody nose?

The way you people claim 'victory' is very funny. TAO will trash you people with concrete peer-reviewed scholarly submissions. You people will claim you gave her a bloody nose, even when the interaction in which she dragged all of you like small Tiger gen is there for everyone to see.

I came on to demonstrate that Ryder was misquoted by one of you. I did that. I put all the evidence out. And then stepped back, because I have no interest in the broader discussion going on here. You came and claimed I was given a bloody nose. By who? How? Gregyboy used to do this a lot with me too, which was really weird, because that boy has never made one coherent point all the time I have known him here.

One wonders if this is a peculiar Benin trait - to claim phantom victories.

Is that how your empire was also built - on the back of phantom victories? One would hope not.

davidnazee:
Bro I guess you read Ryder's book backwards to come to your own interpretation of his work.
No where in his book did he advocate for an Ife origin for the Benin kingship, rather he believed we should look elsewhere for the origin of Benin Kingship because it was unreasonable to believe an already established society will look to Ife (an unknown place, great empires and kingdoms are known) for Kingship.

An the bolded above simply means after all study and research, there is absolutely no relationship/similarities between the Benin kingship and Yoruba kingship. How then can you claim an Ife origin for Benin kingship?

You can continue reading Ryder's work backwards.

Nawa oh. The English that Ryder wrote is quite clear na. Why are you people reading something else there? 😳 It's rather weird.

Let me provide further quotes from that same chapter "The Benin Kingdom" written by AFC Ryder. It is chapter 6 in the book Groundwork of Nigerian History edited by Professor Obaro Ikime, for anyone who wants to check it out for themselves.

On page 110, Ryder wrote: "At the end of the 15th century, the first Portuguese visitors to Benin were told that the Ọba received investiture and regalia from a distant potentiate whom the Edo knew as Ogane; this 'suzerain' may have been the Oni of Ife. Before 1897 parts of the body of a dead Ọba were sent to Ife for burial. But although there are good grounds for accepting some ritual and dynastic relationship between Benin and Ife, exactly how it was established is hard to determine. "

Further down on page 112, after mentioning that Benin chiefs told Captain Roupell in 1898 that Benin people sent to Ife in the Yoruba country for a king and Eweka was sent to them, Ryder wrote this in conclusion: " The most that one can safely conclude from this evidence is that Eweka was probably the first Ọba to rule in Benin, and that he was probably of Yoruba origin, though not necessarily first-hand from Ife."

There are "maybes" and "probablys" in Ryder's submission, because, of course, when you're working with oral tradition (and even written evidence in some cases) there is nothing like 100% certainty. But it is clear from the chapter that you derived your initial misquote from that Ryder was actually leaning towards a Yoruba (if not specifically Ìfẹ́) origin for the Eweka Dynasty.

Let me reiterate that I do not necessarily agree or disagree with what Ryder had to say. I don't care one way or another. My entire point is simply: Don't misquote a scholar in order to make a point.

Also, I see a screenshot flying around from a paper Ryder wrote where he pointed to the Niger-Benue area. The screenshot comes from a paper Ryder wrote in 1965 called "A Reconsideration of Ife-Benin Relationship". The predominant view in Nigerian historiography until 1965 was that the Eweka Dynasty was of Yoruba (Ife) origin. In 1965, Ryder came up with an interesting new theory which he published in that paper. It was really interesting and sparked off a conversation in scholarly circles. JK Thornton building on that even wrote his own paper, where he argued that the Ogane was the Ata of Igala. In any case, both Ryder's and Thornton's theories never really caught on in academic circles. It even appears that Ryder himself came to question his theories later in his career, because in this chapter (that I have quoted and you have misquoted) that he wrote for the book Groundwork of Nigerian History in 1980, he did not mention his 1965 hypothesis at all, but seems to have reverted to the traditional orthodoxy of a Yoruba (even if not specifically Ife) origin for the Eweka Dynasty.

Peace. Happy Sunday ✌️

AutomaticMotors:
After your Fada Boy! The same Fada that taught you to be mannerless and dabble into matters that are way above your IQ level!!

😂😂😂

Go ahead and display your mechanic behaviour. What I wrote to you was not an insult. The difference between what your friend wrote and what Ryder wrote is as clear as day, especially with regard to inherent plausibility of the Yoruba-descent claim. If you cannot see that, your literacy in the English language is very questionable. That's not an insult; that's an observation.

And about IQ levels, not to brag, but there are perhaps only one or two people on this entire thread that are on the same IQ levels with me. The rest of you (including YOU) are dumber than a sack of potatoes.

AutomaticMotors:
Mr man It seems like your hand is just itching you to type because your post actually buttressed his point!

If it buttressed his point to you, then you are a functional illiterate.

davidnazee:
The dutch historian A.F.C Ryder points out in his work that… "next to nothing is known about the Yoruba people themselves at this early
date, and the assertion that Benin sent for an alien (yoruba) ruler instead of accepting one of their numbers was inherently implausible”

Wow. Sir, what mischief is this? Why are you re-writing the words of the late A. F. C. Ryder? This intellectual dishonesty is not necessary na.

You took the words that the late historian wrote in his chapter "Benin Kingdom" in the book Groundwork of Nigerian History and you mangled it to say the opposite of what the historian wrote.

Ryder did not write that Benin sending for an alien (Yoruba) ruler was inherently implausible. These are Ryder's exact words: "...we seem to tread on firmer ground when we come to the traditions which recount in some detail how a number of Benin chiefs, rather than accept one of their own number as an hereditary ruler, sought a sovereign from the Yoruba dynasty ruling in Ife. There is nothing inherently implausible in this story". (page 110)

Yes, Ryder did say that next to nothing was know about the Yoruba at that early date, but a full quote illustrates that he was not heading to the conclusion that your mangled quote portrays. Ryder's words in full on page 112 of the same book:" What innovations the dynasty may have brought from its place of origin we cannot determine because next to nothing is known about the Yoruba peoples themselves at this early date. The essential innovation was presumably the monarchy itself: all the features that made the Benin kingship distinctive, and very different from the corresponding institutions in Yorubaland, seem to have emerged in later years when the dynasty must have become absorbed in Edo environment."

There is no doubt that Professor Ryder was a proponent of the "Out of Yorubaland" theory as regards the current Benin dynasty. There is nothing wrong with you holding a different opinion from this. But to wilfully distort a scholar's words is a hell of a desperate move. Not cool, bro.

snoopz:
*A JSS 2 STUDENT IN LAGOS STATE JUNIOR MODEL COLLEGE BADORE MAKES HISTORY.*

*Orire Mary Michael*, took the world by storm with the publication and launching of her first PROSE (novel), *MY FATHER'S DREAM OR MINE* in Lagos State Junior Model College Badore.


*Orire's* work is expertly crafted and astonishing, Her notable novel, *MY FATHER'S DREAM OR MINE* is a colorful and peculiar story that describes a typical African story that reveals the feud which often exist between a father and a child, thereby leading to the popular saying of the father *I will disown you if you don’t fulfil my dream* then the stubborn and self-confidence child would rather prefer to leave the house with the hope of surviving without the help of his father or mother as the case might be.

*Michael Orire* is a proud student of Lagos State Junior Model College Badore, Ajah Lagos. She hails from Kwara State, Oke Ero Local Government Area, she resides presently in Lagos with her wonderful family.

First of all, someone get the school proprietor on the phone. That school cap has to go.

What's all the faux accent and "bitch" and "nigga" talk from Sandra for na? These kids need to go and sleep. 😂

Maazieze:
Do igbos in river state have a collective name like the Anioma do in delta state?
I know Anioma is an acronym for Aniocha, Ndokwa, Ika, and Oshimili (ANIO). The "Ma" is used a common suffix used in all the languages.
And from the top of my head i know the ikwerre, ndoni, Ekpeye, etche, egbema, ndoki and many others inhabit river state.

I included an illustrated map i googled if that helps.

Also if they dont have a moniker, why not? And what could one be like?

No they don't. They never felt the need to.

jamesversion:
I can translate it to you for a fee. You are abroad, therefore you have money.

I'd translate to Ibaa dialect.

After 13 years though?

UGBE634:
I have kids not unborn, If I am not a Bini man,let me die before my time, let my children die before my very eyes, let everything I hold dear perish. Are you comfortable now

LOL. This was not necessary na. You're letting little things disturb you and get under your skin. You ought to know how Nairaland works by now. If you hold a position contrary to what many of your people believe, they will automatically conclude you come from the 'enemy' tribe.

UGBE634:
The Binis were already ironsmith from time immemorial, infact according to the Oba, it was bronze smith that came from ife

Does Eronmwon have a meaning in Edo?

Also, scholes0, does 'Sunwen' have a meaning in Yoruba?According to one source Oduduwa's brass-Smith was called Sunwen.

(E-)ron-mwon and Sun-wen are similar enough for someone that has a good eye for linguistic relations to suspect that there's cognatic affinity here.

DJ clearly hasn't updated his 9ja playlist since 2020.

Probz:
Abeg, which Kenya?

I was in Nairobi and Mombasa late last year. The bars and clubs were giving me Naija hits, back to back.

ibkayeebbn:
This is the type of music I’d enjoy more in a lounge setting

This! If I was in a nice lounge drinking and/or quietly getting high, this music will work. Not if I'm in the mood to party, jump and shout.

kgr28:
There is no Nigerians songs dominating is SA... CHILL.

There is Africa outside your SA. I clearly said AFRICAN music scene. From Kenya to Senegal, DJs are blasting more Nigerian Afrobeats than this thing I'm hearing. Again, no offence to y'all down there in SA. I'm sure this sounds groovy to y'all. To the rest of us it's the perfect cure for insomnia.

I now understand why Nigerian music is dominating the African music scene. No offence to South Africans and their Amapiano.

AutomaticMotors:


Thank God More and More People are waking up and seeing through Yoruba lies and fairy tales

Cc gregyboy ugbe

Most origin stories are not historical fact. It's not a Yoruba thing. There was no prince from Baghdad called Bayajidda who settled in Daura. There was no Eri who came from the sky. God did not create the world from a drop of milk (according to Fulani legends). Benin origin stories speak of a son of Osanobua that poured sand from a snailshell to create land. That did not happen.

For the most part, origin stories were created by communities to explain a distant part that they no longer remember.

scholes0:
N-O-I is just like Y-E-A-I.
So while Oko might be nominally closer to Nupoid compared to the languages in YEAI, it is an independent arm of that branch. The argument being made by the other guy was that the language was Idomoid or Edoid. He seems to be throwing those terms around without really understanding what they actually mean. It is the same as saying Etsako is Igboid or that Urhobo is Yoruboid because Yoruboid and Edoid are said to be on the same branch.
On the other hand, the case with the Apoi is a bit more complex because they intermarried heavily with the Ikale in the past and now are monolingual in a Yoruba dialect. This was what led to the Apoi language shift which is as a matter of fact complete, not in process. (It happened even before Nigeria)
Then in addition, the Ogori and Magongo claim an Ife point of origin just like the Ayere.

OK, yea, I get.

I thought it was common knowledge that linguistically, Ogori language (called Oko) belongs to the NOI group (Nupoid-Oko-Idomoid), and as such is closer to Nupe, Ebira, Gwari and Idoma, than to Yoruba or Edo.

If today they speak Yoruba and have adopted aspects of Yoruba culture, it is by the same process by which other small groups surrounded by the Yoruba (eg., the Western Apoi, Ayere-Ahan, etc) are progressively being Yoruba-ized.

seeme2:
Igbo people came from Ile-Ife. Both the Ooni and Obi of Onitsha agree on that.

Yoruba people did not originate from Ilé-Ifè, let alone the Igbo. Ilé-Ifè did not become an important emporium until the 11th century. By then the Yoruba and all their neighbours were already fully established linguistic units, even if they lacked collective ethnic consciousness.

You people give oral traditions and recently-fabricated stories too much credit.

B2mario:
Nigerian and some part of Cameroun spoken pidgin English is 70% coined from Igbo language mainly the Igbo dialects in Niger delta. Example using pure Igbo, Aba anglicized Igbo and pidgin English.
English: it is there
Igbo: O di ebe ahu
Aba anglicised Igbo: O di there
Pidgin: e dey there

English: what is inside?
Igbo: gini di n'ime ya?
Aba anglicised Igbo: gini di inside?
Pidgin: wetin dey inside?

English: I am fine
Igbo: a dim mma
Aba anglicised Igbo: a dim OK
Pidgin: I dey OK

English: where are you going?
Igbo: ebe ka I na aga?
Aba ngwa Igbo: ebe ka I di ga?
Pidgin: where you dey go?

English: it's been long
Igbo: Otego aka
Aba Igbo: Otee laka
Pidgin: I don tee

English: men
Igbo: nnaa
Aba anglicised Igbo: nna men
Pidgin: nna men

English: you people
Igbo: unu
Aba anglicised Igbo: unu
Pidgin: una

English: I am coming
Igbo: anam abia
Aba ngwa Igbo: a dim ibia
Pidgin: I dey come

English: what is your name?
Igbo: kee ihe/gini bu aha gi?
Aba ngwa Igbo: o bu gini bu aha gi?
Pidgin: wetin be your name?

English: who's there?
Igbo: onye no ebe ahu?
Aba ngwa Igbo: onye di ebe ahu?
Pidgin: who dey there?

English: greed
Igbo: anya ukwu (eye = anya, ukwu = big)
Aba ngwa Igbo: anya ukwu
Pidgin: big eye

English: --------
Igbo: akpiri ogologo (akpiri = throat, ogologo= longer)
Aba ngwa Igbo: akpiri ogologo
Pidgin: longer throat

English: what is it/that?
Igbo: O bu gini?
Aba ngwa Igbo: O bu gini/ gini bu Ihe ahu?
Pidgin: wetin be that?

English: boss/rich man
Igbo: Oganaya (short form: oga)
Aba ngwa Igbo: oga
Pidgin: oga

English: servant
Igbo: odibo (short form: boi)
Aba anglicised Igbo: boyi or boyi-boyi
Pidgin: boyi-boyi

English: he is serving
Igbo: o na emee odibo or o na agba odibo
Aba ngwa Igbo: o di imee boyi
Pidgin: e dey do boyi-boyi

English: I don't do it
Igbo: muwa anaghi eme ya
Aba ngwa Igbo: muwa adi imee ya
Pidgin: me, I no dey do am (y'am)

English: I don't know him
Igbo: amaghim ya
Aba ngwa Igbo: amam ya
Pidgin: I no know y'am (am)

English: what is happening?
Igbo: o gini na eme?
Aba ngwa Igbo: o gini di ime?
Pidgin: wetin dey happen?

English: he is going to Lagos
Igbo: o na aga Lagos
Aba ngwa Igbo: o di iga Lagos
Pidgin: e dey go Lagos

English: the water is on
Igbo: mmiri na agba (agba = run or rush)
Igbo ngwa Igbo: mmiri di igba
Pidgin: the water dey rush.

English: I am
Igbo: a bum
Aba ngwa Igbo: a bum
Pidgin: I be

English: it is (as in, it is my friend)
Igbo: o bu
Aba ngwa Igbo: o bu
Pidgin: e be

English: it is (as in, it is there)
Igbo: o di
Aba ngwa Igbo: o di
Pidgin: e dey

English: stay quiet
Igbo: no di jim or wayo
Igbo ngwa Igbo: no di Jim
Pidgin: dey jim (Niger delta pidgin) etc.

English: she is pregnant
Igbo: o di ime
Aba ngwa Igbo: o di ime
Pidgin: e dey pregnant/get belle

Boy, quit playing.

AbdulMagaji:
Do you mean that the Arabs in middle east are Blacks?


Incase you don't understand what I wrote, let me repeat it again.

When you go to borders in European countries you will find White Muslim Arabs stucked in the cold there and hoping to gain access into Europe.

Now I said why don't they move to their Rich oil Arab nations like UAE, Kuwait, Saudi etc for asylum?

I don't think those rich Arab nation have a better policy towards refugees than Western Europe. Liberalism and a more democratised climate will always make Europe the better goal.

Answer is really simple and could be summarised in three sentences:

1. Huuuuuuge oil wealth.
2. Very small population
3. Enough to go around (because of number 2)