samuk:


Idumwun like you said means a community. The ancient Benin created several Idumwun across the empire, Idomota (Idumwun Ota) in Lagos means a community were people come together for a meeting/discussion, Idumagbo is another of such Lagos Benin community, even the present location of the Lagos (Benin) monarchy Idunganran. Benin created several Idumwun in eastern yoruba and Ika land.

I do not doubt that Benin took "Idumwun" to Lagos. What is in question is the etymological roots of the word itself. Europeans brought potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco, cassava and maize to us, but all of these words "potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco, cassava, maize" are not European words. They are Native American words.

Your ancestors may have taken idumwun to wherever, but the word itself is Igboid. If you have a satisfactory Edo etymology for it, then provide it and let us examine it.

samuk:


You said Idumwun have it's root in both Esan and Igbo but was quick to limit your Igbo to Anioma. Does Idumwun also have its etymological root in the several other tribes that make up the wider Igbo community.

Nope. I didn't say it has roots in both Esan and Igbo. It's origin is unequivocally Igbo, and diffused to both Esan and Benin. You didn't understand what I said there.

And, no. The Southeasterners don't use idumu to mean quarters like is done in Anioma, but this doesn't mean that etymologically the roots of 'Idumu' cannot be understood by a Southeasterner. It was an Anioma innovation but linguistically is still Igboid. To give an example: in the southeast, soup is called 'ofe' in Standard Igbo, but the Ikwerre of Rivers State call it 'mini wiri'. But does it mean "mini wiri" is not Igboid? No. 'mini wiri' is cognate with 'miri nri' which means 'food' s water' or 'sauce for eating food' in Igbo. The Ikwerre word is therefore still etymologically Igbo, even if it isn't used in Central/Standard Igbo. It's the same basic concept with Idumu.

Idumwun is an Edo word that was contributed to Anioma branch of Igbo by Edo people that share the Anioma space with various other tribes, this is the reason Idumwun may not resonate with Igbo from Abia, Anambra or Imo.

Then you should be able to break it done into its constituent units and explain it. But you apparently can't. And while we are on the topic of Igbo expressions loaned to Edo:

I hope you won't disagree that the "Uku" that appears in the praise name of your Oba "Uku Akpolokpolo" is from the Igbo word for "big or great".

Or that the Edo word for gun, osisi, is from the Igbo word for stick (applied to the early daneguns because they looked like long sticks), and is still used to describe guns throughout Anioma.

Or that the Edo word for skirt buluku, is from the Igbo word 'mbuluku' or 'mbunuku' or 'mbenuku/mbenukwu', which in Igbo means 'that which is girded around the waist'.

The Igbo language is still evolving, borrowing from various ancient and much older cultures around her. It's the aggregates of these various ancient cultures that gave birth to Igbo.

Which language isn't continually evolving and borrowing? What exactly is the point of this paragraph?

It's possible that Benin could have pick something from one of those tribes that came together to form Igbo, but which of them.

Deliberately evasive. I will be waiting for an Edo etymology of Idu and Idumwun. Cheers.

One of the problems I have with the neighbours of Igbo-speaking peoples, especially the Edo and the Igala, is that they have this hardened belief that their cultural relationship with the Igbo was one-way, and that the Igbo were always on the receiving end of cultural influence from them, while they never picked up anything from the Igbo. Anytime the Edo man or the Igala man comes across something he shares with his Igbo neighbor, the tendency is to jump to the conclusion (without consideration to linguistic and etymological logic) that the Igbo must have learnt it from them.

The first question to ask about "Idu" is: if Idu was an Edo endonym for themselves, how do you explain the fact that none of their neighbours historically used this word for them, except for the Igbo? Edo (Benin) people had ancient interactions with Yoruba, Urhobo, Iteskiri, Esan, but they did not take "Idu" to them, except to the Igbo and Igboid people to the east. How? Why?

There's only one logical explanation: the word was an Igbo word to begin with, an Igbo exonym for Benin.

And Idu actually does have Igbo meanings:

One, it means 'bush'.
Two (and this is the meaning that is more relevant to this discussion), it means 'a crowd', 'an agglomeration of people' or 'a community'.

The Igbo called Benin "Idu n'Oba" which means "the Community of the Oba" or "The Oba's Community" in Igbo. Often rendered simply for the sake of brevity as "Idu."

Idu or Iduu is still used even in parts the southeast to mean 'people' or 'community', especially in the Omambala area.

Could you kindly give me an Edo etymology of "Idu"? Having ancient Idu-named shrines doesn't confer an Edo provenance on the name; it only indicates an ancient relationship between the Igbo and the Edo.

Even your word "Idumwun" (called Idumu by Esan and us in Anioma) is an Igboid term in its etymological roots.

I can break down "Idumu" to meaningful units in Igbo:

Idu = community
Ụmụ = children/descendants

Idumuobi (common name of lineages in Anioma) = community of the descendants of the Obi.

Idumuje (in Esan) = community of the descendants of the Oje, i.e., the royal quarters.

Idumwun Ewaise (in Benin) = community of the descendants of the royal physicians and diviners.

Again, could you offer an etymology for your "Idumwun"?

samuk:


According to you Idu is an Igbo word, yet its severally referenced in Benin, both in names of individuals, locations and shrine.

Idu, AKA, Efa and Emehi are ancient Benin names. The fact that the Urhobo call Benin people AKA people doesn't mean its an Urhobo word, AKA like Efa, Emehi and Idu, all have verifiable historical landmarks in Benin.

These verifiable historical references to these ancient names were not just created yesterday. The reason the Benin/Ife connection is having serious problems is due to lack of verifiable historical references in Benin.

The fact that the word 'Idu' was incorporated into Benin's cultural space in the forms you've mentioned is testament to early intimate relationship between the Benin people and their neighbours to the east.

Idu etymologically is an Igbo word. What does it mean in Edo? I know of at least two meanings of Idu in Igbo.

A few missed ones:

Ogilisi or Egbo tree.
Ogbu tree.

YungMillionaire:
Peter Obi the political prostitute. From APGA to PDP from PDP to Labor. Peter Obi is one of the most corrupt politicians in Nigeria's history. Look at the way he is publicly buying votes from poor Ibos while campaigning for Atiku. Notice he is wearing PDP uniform and sweating
profusely like a rabid dog. Look at the look on his ugly corrupt face. Look at that face! God forbid!

You can't be a Tinubu supporter and be talking about people's looks. The irony is too rich. Must be crack, or (Tinubu's) heroin.

thebosstrevor1:
I will read first before commenting, i will advise you all to do that too.

There is no evidence to show that tinubu was a drug lord in that investigation.

Was he involved in money laundering, yes

Was he accused of not paying tax in the US - Yes

The real drug lord is Lee andrew edwards, he was a supplier of white Heroin to Tinubu's Cousin.

Tinubu was a money Mole for his drug dealer counsin.

The Money in Tinubu US bank account ( $1.2M) was ceased because the fbi linked it to his cousin Heroin Business


For anybody that prefer the truth over FAKENEWS.

Download and read
https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/download.html?id=209706498&a=1&z=d813b7da

Una funny for this country. Laundering money for a drug trafficking ring = being involved in drug business = being a drug criminal.

Idu as a historical person is very unlikely. Idu is an exonym, a name given to Benin by Igbo people. It is an Igbo term (with Igbo meanings), and not an Edo term. It's re-invention as a person is likely the result of latter-day mythopoesis.

IbileIfe:


Abraham never came before Igbo Ukwu.
There is evidence of Late Stone Age (late Paleolithic) human presence from at least 10,000 years ago. Early settlement of Igboland is dated to 6000 BC based on pottery found in the Okigwe, Oka Igwe, and known today as Awka.
It has been confirmed that there was an Igbo Kingdom before Abraham.
Igbo Ukwu existed since the Bronze Age.
Abraham existed afterwards in the Iron Age.

I will not debate this.

Canadian scholar John Van Seters argued in his 1975 book Abraham in History and Tradition the Biblical patriarchs were Iron Age creations, based on the content, names and messages of their stories.

Case closed.

You need to spend many many more years studying history before you can talk about it. Because frankly you are just jumbling a lot of things up! Like, I do not even know where to begin correcting you on the chronology mistakes you keep making.

The stone age findings at Okigwe, Afikpo, Nsukka etc are older than "Abraham". But the bronze findings from Igbo-Ukwu ARE NOT!

I put "Abraham" in inverted commas because it seems you understand that Abraham might have been a myth. If however we accept him to be a historical figure, there is no way we can place him as late as the later half of the first millennium AD, which is where radiocarbon dating places Igbo-Ukwu. By the later half of the first millennium AD, Christianity, the daughter-religion of Judaism (a religion associated in its early more primitive days with Abraham) was already a world religion, which means that we cannot place a historical Abraham anywhere near as late as the first millennium AD. Simple logic!

Stop throwing around words like "the Bronze Age" when you don't really understand the context that they are used in world history.

The Middle East/Europe entered the Bronze Age long before the use of bronze was recorded in Sub-Saharan Africa. Sub-Saharan Africans (outside of Kush) learnt to work iron quite early, but didn't use bronze until much later in their history, in the centuries after Christ. For this reason, Sub-Saharan Africans didn't have a true bronze age, because we went from the stone age straight into the iron age; whereas, Eurasians went from a stone age to a bronze age and finally to an iron age.
I doubt that you'll even understand what I am saying, given how screwed up your understanding of history is.

Policy makers in this country really messed up by not taking history education serious, leaving people to miseducate themselves on the internet.

IbileIfe:
You are right.
Igbo Ukwu was 9th Century BC.
Abraham was 11th Century BC.
The 11th century is the period from 1001 (MI) through 1100 (MC) in accordance with the Julian calendar, and the 1st century of the 2nd millennium.

Igbo Ukwu, Ife and Benin civilization began during the Bronze Age.
The Bronze Age started in the third millennium B.C. But White historians have deliberately lied that they were situated during AD to relegate our ancient civilizations under the ancient Egypt when in actual fact the oldest monarchies in Africa were in Igbo Ukwu, Ife and Benin.

KERMA AND NAPATA
The Kushites were first based in Kerma, and then at Napata - both towns in what is now northern Sudan.

Kerma was an advanced society and archaeological evidence shows that ceramics were being produced by 8,000 BC - earlier than in Egypt. By about 1700 BC, the town had grown into a town of 10,000 people with a complex hierarchical society.

There is evidence of Late Stone Age (late Paleolithic) human presence from at least 10,000 years ago. Early settlement of Igboland is dated to 6000 BC based on pottery found in the Okigwe, Oka Igwe, and known today as Awka.

LOL. So many things to unpack here.

First of all, it appears you don't understand chronology. 11th century BC came before 9th century BC. So, by your own dating, Abraham still came before Igbo-Ukwu.

Secondly, you say the white people lied about the age of Igbo-Ukwu. Alright. Did you carry out an independent radiocarbon-dating or any other form of dating of the archaeolgocal sites and came up with a date older than the ones obtained by Thurstan Shaw? If you did, why didn't you publish your findings? If you published your findings, where can one read it?

Ndibunna:


Trash.

What of the Igbo man who can speak Hausa fluently. Inferiority complex.

Same thing I was thinking. There are lots of Igbos who speak fluent Hausa. They (the Hausas) don't consider it a big deal over there. In fact, some of them expect you to know their language, while they generally have no interest in yours.

Abraham was born in the 11th century AD?

Do you understand what you just wrote?

YonkijiSappo:


Owa - Owa is a word mostly used by the Ijeshas, Ekitis and some Akoko groups to refer to a ruler. I speak neither of these dialects, but it certainly has its origins as well. If I am to guess the 'O' is a pronoun of person, while the wa is probably what remains of a more elaborate term that has contracted and lost some consonants over ages, making the deciphering of its exact meaning more difficult.
Same way what Yorubas called Ooni today was in the middle ages called "Owoni" and its original form was Oghone.

So, that is that.

According to Isola Olomola, Owa comes from an archaic Yoruba word for 'great house'. The word still survives in the ikedu records, where we find Owigho (Owa Igho) meaning "House of Money". Note that the ancient Egyptians also used a word that meant 'great house' (i.e., Pharoah) to refer to their rulers. Also, the word 'obi' used in Anioma area of Delta State to refer to kings has a similar meaning.

Interestingly, the word for 'house' in Edo areas is still Owa.

UGBE634:
what then makes one ijaw? You mean they can just wake up tommorow and say Esan is Ijaw and she will be

Well, if the Esan then agrees that they are Ijaw and joins Ijaw National Congress (the way Obolo and these other groups have), who are we to tell them what to do with their lives and identities?

Ohali and Nwajari. These sound like some names we use in Anioma. Ohai and Nwajeri or Nwajei.

GreatBoss:


Don't mistake Ijaw for your nonsense tribe.

You all left the person who asked a perfectly reasonable (but apparently an uncomfortable) question to come and pile on me.

Clowns. Please, answer his/her question.

Ebi2233:



Keep quiet.

They are all of one Ancestor.
You don't know of language loss shey?

Eat shit, you uncomprehending buffoon. Did I argue about the validity of their ethnic cohesion? Was I not simply explaining the linguistic situation to someone who asked a question about it?


PS: They are not 'all of one Ancestor' (whatever that means). No ethnic group in the world is 'of one Ancestor', despite what their origin stories might say.

Maazieze:


Another thing is, i thought the obolo were an ibibio subgroup, or are the cultural borders blurred enough to confuse one for the other

The peculiar thing about Ijaw 'ethnic' identity is that it doesn't always align with linguistic realities. Indeed, Obolo speak a language that is a close relative of Ibibio. But they are not the only 'Ijaw' group that doesn't speak an Ijaw dialect as their mother tongue. Engenni and Epie are linguistically Edoid subgroups. Abua, Ogbia and Odual speak closely related non-Ijaw dialects collectively called Central Delta languages. Opobo is Igbo-speaking. And the Apoi of the Western Zone don't speak Ijaw, but Yoruba. Omoyele Sowore (notice the Yoruba names) comes from Apoi of the Western Zone.

Why did they change their name from Egbado to Yewa? Egbado sounds better.

Since it's Lagos you're going to, how about you start with the history of Lagos?

Historian Kristin Mann wrote an accessible history of the city in precolonial times.

http://library.lol/main/9DD23C63D3D5300144E6F5CA4B6209B5

blazingblender:
am amajana nando so my dad was telling me those stuffs
I tot it was for all igbos

It's not. Other parts of Igboland have their own different origin stories.

JustPowerApps:
They bleach alot

I guess they were also bleaching in precolonial days when the relatively high occurrence of light skin tone was observed among them in the Americas, leading to the expression "Red Ibo".

blazingblender:
Especially Anambra
Enugu
And abịa girls
Well the truth is according to origin we where believed to have originated from Eri
The descendants of isreal that came to this part of the world to start a new life
So you see we are believed to be isrealites

Unless you are from an Umueri town (Aguleri, Nteje, Nando and co.,) you are not descended from Eri.

And you are not descended from Israelites either. It's high time we stopped promoting the legend of a small corner of Igboland into the national origin story of the whole Igbo "nation".

AlvaroRios:
I am researching the origins of Oduduwa and Obatalá. Many people say many things, mainly about Oduduwa, some say he came from Iraq, about Obatalá, they say he is Igbo, can you help me?

Have you read Prof Akintoye's "A History of the Yoruba People"?

Prettygirl200:
Sorry how is igbidi from awka Must everything be tied to Igbo?? U know nothing about isoko people or their land so keep quiet pls.

What does Igbide oral traditions say about the origins of the clan? Care to share?

duro4chang:
Elections are not held on social media.

But polls are. No one said this was an election.

North-North ticket. Okay. A very smart political move. Give yourself a pat on the back.

Mods, bigfrancis21, Fulaman, Odumchi. Could you please unhide my comment here that was hidden by the spambot. Thanks.

DitariDisciple2:



Both Oguta and Egbema are acculturated Ijaws.
Must you be tribalistic with everything?

Nonsense.

Let me see a reference. And don't bring a nationalistic Ijaw website. There are scores of those floating around online.

Alabo7978:

It is known ofcourse.
The Egbema people say they migrated from outside Ala'igbo, the Egbema clan in Western Ijaw is where they came from
Same as the oguta people who pride themselves as Oru-igbo.

Known by who? Ijaw nationalists?

From your moniker I can tell you are Ijaw. It is hardly surprising that you would make these unfounded claims, given your ethnic persuasion and what is known of your people's not-so-subtle expansionist agenda.

Now while Egbema and Oguta do indeed mention migrations from outside Igboland in their traditions, neither of them points to Ijawland. They point to Benin.
Oru-Igbo doesn't mean Ijaw. I am aware that you people seem to think that Oru points exclusively to Ijaw origin, but along the Niger, Olu or Oru simply means a riverine clan, whether they be Igbo, Ijaw or Igala. The term is geographic and nothing more.

No Egbema or Oguta source mentions Ijawland as a point of origin. It's only on Ijaw-centric, Ijaw expansionist, Ijaw nationalistic sites that these lies are peddled.

Alabo7978:

Oguta came from kalabari-izon
egbema from the western izon fringes.

Who told you this?