₦airaland Forum

TAO11:
It appears we’re to both heading along the same lines to the effect that horses were clearly in use (although in rare use) in the southern Nigeria forest region from early times.

Many scattered pieces of evidence now strongly indicate that. And one such evidence which I was certainly going to bring up (thanks for suggesting it) is from the Igbo-Ukwu ‘bronze’ works.

However, I wouldn’t be quick to label it as a 9th century work since many subsequent scholarly disclaimers now undermine those early radio-carbon dates submitted by Thurstan Shaw.

The contemporary scholarly consensus (including Thurstan Shaw’s himself), however, now appears to be in favour of a much later date. But this is not the specific point I intend to discuss here — at least not now.

Moreover, I am not aware of any such ”bronze figure of a mounted horseman from Igbo-Ukwu” to be honest. Can you please direct me to one such work from the Igbo-Ukwu corpus?

What I am aware of instead is the presence of a horse’s head as a motif among the Igbo-Ukwu ‘bronze’ works, and this clearly is an indication of the early use of horses (of course rare use considering tsetse fly) in the southern Nigeria forest region.

In addition to the Igbo-Ukwu horse’s head motif‘, there are a body of other evidence which strongly point to the use of horses in the southern Nigeria forest region — particularly as early as the 10th century.

One of such evidence is found the body of strongly held ancient Yoruba traditions one of which makes mention of horses in at least one verse of Odu-Ifa.

Also, a strongly held body of Ife royal traditions is unambiguous in its description of the significant part horses played (not merely as a prestigious royal possession) but particularly in Ife’s trade during Oduduwa’s reign — that is, c. 900 A.D./c. 1000 A.D.

In fact, Ife appears to have, for some time, had an early monopoly of horse trade in Yorubaland. This would appear to account for the southern Ekiti proverb which states that he who desires to own a horse must buy one from heaven through Ife.

Moreover, it is also known that some very ancient shrines in parts of Yorubaland (including Ife itself) feature sculptures of deities riding on horse back.


In conclusion:

What appears palpably perceptible from the foregoing body of evidence (especially those which shows that horses were the prized possessions of the early Ife royal court, as well as a key part of early Ife’s long distance fleet) is that your conclusion that Oranmiyan (a prince of the prestigious Ife’s royal court) would have left Ife for distant Benin (on the authority of the Ife king and as a prince of the royal court) bare footed is far-fetched and extremely unlikely to say the least.

What appears most likely then on the other hand (in the light of the available body of evidence) is that he embarked on the long trip to Benin obviously with the permission of the Ooni, and as such with a full royal assemblage which included horses.

This conclusion moreover — unlike its opposite — has a scholarly support as may be seen in the conclusion of Paula Ben-Amos Girshick.

I'm interested in being shown studies that discredited Shaw's 9th century dates for Igbo-Ukwu. I'm aware that Babatunde Lawal raised skepticism about the dates back in the 1970s, but Thurstan Shaw published rebuttals in which he defended the dates. Since then (as far as I know) the dates have gone largely unchallenged.

If there are other published papers discrediting the dates that I'm unaware of, I'd like to see them.

TAO11:
To say that horses were supplied from the south northward is obviously exaggerated and ought rightly inaccurate.

But to maintain that horses weren’t used in the south (in this case early Oyo and in ancient Ife particularly) will be nothing short of perverse.

I believe Mraphel was getting at the specific point that Ife (or Oyo) made uses of horses early in their respective histories despite the terrain.

But there is obviously no need to exaggerate them as the sources of supply for the north.

I agree that the use of horses did penetrate into forested areas. After all, there's a 9th century bronze figure of a mounted horseman from Igbo-Ukwu deep in the southern Nigerian forest. If horses were present there that early there's no reason to doubt that they were also present in Ife and surrounding areas at a similar date. In any case, oral tradition does associate Oranmyian with a horse.

However, outside Oyo (which is largely savanna country), it doesn't seem that equestrian culture developed to a high degree anywhere in Southern Nigeria. People in the south largely owned horses as a prestige symbol, rather than as a legit means of transportation or as part of military technology. I have read in one of the papers of Prof Robin Law that horsemanship was so poorly understood in Benin, that when the oba was on horseback two slaves had to walk on either side of the horse with him to keep him from falling off. Even the Oyo, who mastered horsemanship better than their southern neighbours still employed Hausa slaves to train and care for the horses, as they understood horses better than southerners.

That said, it wouldn't have been out of place for a prince going to Benin from Ife to have done the journey on foot, as that remained the chief means of transportation for both highborn and lowborn in forested areas, despite the elite being acquainted with horses.

Mraphel:
That Edo story was narrated to the BBC by the Edos still u saw myths in the articles.
How on earth can Oranmiyan a prince walk from Ife to Igodomigodo without a horse.?
The early Yorubas sold several horses to many tribes including the Fulani tribes only that the Fulani retained it longer than everyone.

Yorubas sold horses to the Fulani? Wait, are you joking?

Benevento:
madam will you keep quiet?

Akata is not a derogatory word.

in Yoruba "Akata" means wild cat not "cotton picker"

back to the original poster...

Yes, Haitians, Jamaicans and other black people living outside African are also Akatas
it means a cat that doesn't live at home like a wild non domesticated cat, this is used to reference mostly African Americans as they are considered Africans by all Africans but the fact that they don't live in Africa make them akata while those of us who live at home can be considered as Ologbo (domesticated cat)

It is no different from an African American calling his buddies "cat" , it is just that the Yorubas recognize the fact that this is a cat that isn't at home.

#copied

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=akata

in conclusion, Calling Haitians, Jamaicans, And other Caribbean blacks "Akata" is plausible. (it's not only limited to African Americans).

Home base Africans = Ologbo
African Americans and other foreign black Africans = Akata.



crell626

How can you say akata is wild cat, and in the same breath say it is not derogatory?

GeneralKoko:
But they trace their origin to bini , that's a fact too

This post is talking about language. Stay on topic, oga.

Abagworo:
Ika language is Igbo language very much like Igbo spoken in present day Imo State. It sounds different from Igbo spoken in Asaba, Ogwashi and others that sound like Anambra. All these confusion are unnecessary and if thorough study is done their ancestors should be same as Isu because there is no way the language will jump from Imo State past all those communities except through ancestry.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lz8ghE25Aw

Apart from wu and ri, Ika is closer to the Igbo of Nsukka than to Imo.

IkwerrePikin:
#DIFFERENCE BETWEEN #IKWERRE TRIBE (IWHURUO'HA) OF RIVERS STATE AND NDI-#IGBO.

ENGLISH >> IGBO >> IKWERRE

1. Man >> Woke >> Nyerukha
2. Woman >> Nwayi >> Nyeriyha
3.Heart >> Obi >> Ovu/nkpoma
4.Stone >> Nkume >> Rigwu/okwute
5. Money >> Ego >> Iwai
6. Goat >> Ewu >> Wowu
7. Knife >> Nma >> Wama/Elekeh/ama
8. Sun >> Anyawu >> Ahabeh/ Ahaveh
9. Wrestling >> Mgbamgba >> Egelege
10. Hall >> Obi >> Oviri/Obiri/obokoro
11. Wrapper >> Akwah >> Ukpe/ Njijie
12. Gift >> Onyinye >> Nkesi
13. Happiness >> Anwiri >> Ovutor/Sarima
14. Vegetable >> Ugwu >> Okwukwo-wiri
15. Chair >> Ochie >> Ngada/ekwe
16. Staff >> Nkpara >> Agbarah/owhor
17. Pomade >> Udeh >> Monor/ Iloh
18. Meat >> Annor >> Okpah/anh
19. Cassava >> Japu >> Mbalaka
20. Farm >> Oru-ugbo >> Uvi/ Ubi/Ekwu
21. Soup >> Ofeh >> Miniwiri
22. Onions >> Alibosa >> Ayo
23. Forest >> Oke-Ohia >> Igbogo
24. Mosquito >> Anwunta >> Mgbedenji/Ntutah
25. Time >> Oge >> Ngbe
26. Star >> Kpakpandu >> Ngolo
27. God >> Chukwu/Olisah >> Chiokike
28. Devil >> Ekwensu >> Rewu
29. Children >> Umuaka >> Rumutakiri/Omutakiri
30. House >> Ulor >> Oro

God bless Iwhuruohna (ikwerre) people

This is actually bullshit. You take Ikwerre and compare it with some standardized form of Igbo, and you think you're making a point?

I can pick any two Igbo dialects, do comparison and come up with more differences than what I am seeing here.

By the way; mgbe for time, chiokike for God, ayo for onions, ubi for farm, and many other expressions you represented as Ikwerre are used in many places throughout the southeast.

Ikwerre language belongs solidly within the Igbo linguistic continuum, and that is a linguistic fact.

How did this happen? How did an Igbo thread get derailed into this now-tiring Benin-Yoruba feud?

jrusky:
It was the Ijaw and the first school, mission, hospital was built in Lagos

Pls don't bring your nonsense tribal madness you are trying to filter in here. Remain in the line of discussion we all want to learn how foreign names came on SS name ok, if you have the answer say it or pls quietly dissappear here.

This is why I withdraw from threads and stop commenting once it hits frontpage. A lot of mad people will quote you and try to drag you into their madness.

MrOjay1:
But how come the first mission school in Nigeria was established in Badagry?

Because the slave traders of earlier centuries were not interested in building schools.

MrOjay1:
i have always thought it was the yorubas(the ones living in Lagos) that first came in contact with the Europeans.

Uh... No.

It was the Ijaw.

MrOjay1:
OK.Why didn't this happen amongst other tribes too?Because i know the Europeans also had a hard time pronuncing their names

The first people who come in long and sustained contact with white people in most non-European countries always end up bearing the largest burden of cultural erosion from white people.

MrOjay1:
I've noticed the for a long time now that many Rivers state indigenes bear westernized surnames like Blankson,Douglas,Perricosta,Souza,Graham,Peterson,McColumbus,etc.


I have seen indigenes of Rivers who bear the above listed surnames alongside other ones too numerous to mention.Was there any kind of foreign culture influx in Rivers State that influenced these surnames??or have they just been bearing these kind of surnames right from inception?


I need opinions on this

cc:Lalasticlala,Mynd44,Ishilove,Dominique

These names are as a result of very extensive contact with European traders, from the 16th century on. The European traders had a hard time pronouncing the native names of their Ijaw and Efik trade partners. So they either Europreanised their native names or gave them pure European aliases which stuck. Yellowe for instance was Europeanised from Iyala; Horsfall from Osifolo. Henshaw, Ephraim, Duke, Hogan, Cobham, etc all have native Efik equivalents which I don't remember offhand.

So you decided to pull out your camera phone and follow her around? Sounds a lot like harrassment.

Minding your business is a concept Africans seem to have a hard time understanding.

Seun, your forum is falling to pieces. Are there no mods here anymore?

Energy48:
REPEAT You fuckin cockroach! Do you understand what is meant by HISTORY? Prove me wrong by showing me how the Fairy Tales you heard about Kush to Zimbabwe and from Buganda to Mali QUALIFY as HISTORY? Explain this to me, you evil Rectum-faced pygmy!

The ANSWER TO THE QUESTION will show even a Half-Wit like you the DIFFERENCE between a MYTH and HISTORY. So ANSWER THE QUESTION!

Last word to you: you're just stewpid. Ignorant and stewpid.

Terryishere:
All of these insults aren't going to encourage him to seek knowledge. Instead of insulting him, continue to SCHOOL him.

School me about what? That the Bible contains the authentic history of YOU and ME?

I know my history. Melchizedek and Moses and Isaac are not players in my history. And they are not players im your history either, if you are (as I presume) West African.

Energy48:
I-M-B-E-CILE! Did you just say I should go and read the HISTORY of civilizations that flourished on African soil. From Kush to Zimbabwe, from Buganda to Mali?

Oh wow! So it is true the old saying that, the higher the Monkey climbs, the more you can see of it's UGLY behind. This exchange with you exposed your HIGH IGNORANCE. Little did I realise you were a SEMI-ILLITERATE BONEHEAD who never made it past Grade school.

You fuckin cockroach! Do you understand what is meant by HISTORY? Prove me wrong by showing me how the Fairy Tales you heard about Kush to Zimbabwe and from Buganda to Mali QUALIFY as HISTORY? Explain this to me, you evil Rectum-faced pygmy!

The history of African civilizations is 'fairy tales', but the Bible is the true history of black people. LOL.

2-digit IQ dingbat.

Oh you deluded little bastard. Lmao!

Don't go and read the history of the great cultures and civilizations that flourished on African soil. From Kush to Zimbabwe, from Buganda to Mali.

Keep your cretinous head buried in Middle Eastern asses while your own true history lies ignored.

Imb.ecile.

Energy48:
So says the Village IDIOT. The high ignorance and Low IQ some of you display online is the stuff of legends.

PROVE you are not the slowpoke, who speaks without thinking, by telling me what is undignified about the post. Go on, show us you are not the brain-dead village idiot! What is undignified about the post?

**spits on you**

Disgusting piece of trash, looking up to a book written by Middle Eastern goatherds for his history. Disgusting piece of shị́t. Tueh!

**spits on you again**

**spits**

Have some dignity for ffuck's sake!

gregyboy:
They known you are igbo, so trust them, the will call you comnent hate and tribalistic comnents

The OP doesn't know anything about me.

Besides the place he is talking about is in Anioma, and there's no one more suited to reply than an Anioma person, which I am one.

gregyboy:
Lol, you wan turn this thread to igbo vs yoruba chill thread we edos got the fight bro,


You know if yoruba sees igbos they rather die fighting them than rather quit licking the fulani feet

So please dont give them the chance to divert the topic lol, you have said enough

Did I mention Igbo in this thread, eh? Is there anywhere in this thread that I mentioned Igbo?

So how am turning it into Igbo vs Yoruba?

IDENNAA:
Who the ffuck is Zik in the academic field for me to listen to his story which has no modicum of proofs. Did you also believed Eze Nri were the ones crowning Oba of Bini like your Bini Chiefs and Anthropologists rightly posited ?

Until you can prove how a people like Ndi Onicha steeped deep into Igbo culture from time immemorial could have any chance of having Bini origin ,you will weep forever. Recently, the Obi of Onicha restated that Onicha are Igbo on reverse migration....you think you still got a fight here...lol

About the imminent disintegration of Nigeria, we have been dying to have that...be our guest. But , as for Onicha and Enuani of Anioma its over. Go romance your Ika and Ukwuani who like kissing Omonona's aszz. Good night!

This same Zik they keep calling wrote an article in the 1930s, long before his autobiography came out, where he said Chime and his people came from a kingdom near Benin (most probably in Anioma) and were driven out in a war with Benin.

But even though I've brought this article to their attention, they conveniently choose to act like there are no alternative (more logical) accounts of Ezechime's origins than the He-came-from-Benin account.

Go to Obomkpa, an Ezechime-descent town in Delta. They'll tell you Ezechime came from a now-destroyed Anioma town called Ogidi, near where Agbor is situated today and was driven out in a war with Benin. Note how Obomkpa traditions closely parallels what Zik wrote in the 1930s.

Even apart from the names being Igbo names, all the traditions affirm that Ezechime left with ofo and ufie. Ask Benin people if Ofo and Ufie are part of their culture. And if not how did a Benin man leave Benin with ofo and ufie?

olawalepopoola:
On the location, I made a mistake it was Ukwu-Nzu Thanks for that correction. I don't need you to believe the story. What I heard is what I passed on. Benin has a strong relationship that commons like you don't know. Learn!

It is very strange for a full-grown man to make this kind of mistake. How can you be physically present in Ukwunzu, mix with the indigenes, and somehow get the place mixed up with Oza? Lol.

That is why I said you probably made up the story about you visiting the place. You wrote this based on second-hand evidence. I know Ukwunzu has Eastern Yoruba and Benin connections, but I do not believe you went there.

You left Benin and passed through Ogwashi Uku before you got to Ozanogogo? Ha! Are you sure you know where you went to, oga? If you leave Benin, you will reach Ozanogogo before you get to Ogwashi-Uku.

In fact, what you described here sounds like it was Ukwunzu you went to. Either that or this story is made up.

I was just saying to myself that I have not seen a ranking of Yoruba Obas on Nairaland this August, and the month is about to end. Thanks for this.

.

mariahAngel:
The question is why do your people always have problems when Imo state is mentioned?

And my question is why did you drag Biafra into it, as if Anambra people are the ones singlehandedly spearheading Biafra?

And I don't know who 'your people' are. I'm not from Anambra.

Finally, a team that can at least stay on beat small. #TolaniAndVee.

mariahAngel:
...and the hate and jealousy begin

Ndi Anambara...o naghi a ra unu ahu

Let me give you all a message to deliver to your people: BIAFRA WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

You know why? Ndi Igbo nile amarachala your ultimate agenda and we will never allow that to happen.

What has Biafra got to do specifically with Anambra now?

The individuals that have been at the forefront of the push for Biafra in contemporary times, are they from Anambra? Uwazurike, Nnamdi Kanu, they be Anambra men?

Lord Baelish can't stay on beat.