₦airaland Forum

NaijaPikinGidi: Having said all of the above, what would be the total cost fuelling these crafts in a prolonged war deployment. Would the prolonged deployment of these Grippens therefore be sustainable in a state of real war with a very potent enemy? Think before you answer!

Are our enemy fighting us with paper planes that cost THEM nothing to operate? Prolonged war becomes a battle of budgets. A prolonged war can be sustained, but it would make a huge dent into the fiscus. Same as it would to our enemy.

Just some pics of our fighters

https://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt76/MalcolmR/SAAF%20Parade%201-Feb-13/HawkandGripenformo-IMG_5152-800.jpg

https://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt76/MalcolmR/SAAF%20Parade%201-Feb-13/Hawkformo-IMG_5173-800.jpg

https://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt76/MalcolmR/SAAF%20Parade%201-Feb-13/GripenD09-IMG_5190-800.jpg

https://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt76/MalcolmR/SAAF%20Parade%201-Feb-13/GripenC23-IMG_5201-800.jpg

[img]http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=161981&t=1[/img]

[img]http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=161982&t=1[/img]

Property of WARBIRDSFLY

NO SAAF GRIPENS IN STORAGE - GENERAL

https://www.saairforce.co.za/seed/public/files/aircraft_images/20/4a312f93968d3_large.jpg

http://www.saairforce.co.za/news-and-events/1237/saaf-jets-arent-in-storage-says-general

The fuel is only R11 a litre but it costs about R135 400 an hour to keep a Gripen fighter jet in the air.

The Hawk trainer fighter jets are a bit cheaper, at about R82 900 per flying hour.

This was divulged by General John Bayne at the Arms Procurement Commission on Tuesday.

Bayne is the director of combat systems for the South African Air Force, responsible for the Gripen and Hawk systems.

Bayne said the “dry costs” (without fuel) for a Gripen were R104 600 per flying hour and fuel cost R30 800, giving a total “wet cost” of R135 400. Hawks fly at a dry cost of R67 500, with fuel costs of R15 400 and a total
cost of R82 900.

The SAAF bought 26 Gripen fighter jets and 24 Hawk trainer fighters in the 1999 arms deal, which the commission is investigating.

“To date the Hawks have flown over 10 000 major accident-free flying hours since 2005 and the Gripens 3 500 since 2008,” said Bayne.

He said there had been “some minor accidents and incidents, like on all aircraft fleets”.

Bayne touched on the controversial issue of whether the fighter jets were in long-term storage.

Earlier this year, Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula caused some confusion by telling Parliament that 12 of the Gripens were in long-term storage because there was not funding to fly them; then last month she told
Parliament that none of the Gripens or Hawks were in storage.

Bayne said the SAAF had found that it was better - and cheaper - not to put the aircraft into long-term storage even though budgets were tight this year. “We were warned that this would be a particularly tough financial year.”

Bayne said the SAAF had discussed the storage and maintenance issue with the aircrafts’ manufacturer, Saab, earlier this year after initially storing 12 Gripens, and then set up a less costly process. This reduced the maintenance hours required for storage and made the aircraft more readily available for flying.

“With both these aircraft it would be far more costly and require much more maintenance putting them into long-term storage,” he said.

They now use a rotational preventive maintenance programme which involves flying the aircraft every now and then.

All 26 Gripens are flown and managed in this way, Bayne added.

Some are put under “tents” to slow the corrosion process while the aircraft are standing.

The SAAF uses a three-tier system with the fighter aircraft. This means the fighter pilots start training on the Pilatus aircraft, then move on to the Hawk trainers, then the Gripens.

The Hawk is used as both a trainer and a fighter jet in its own right.

“The SAAF today has an excellent, well-balanced and well-equipped fighter-system capability within the ideal three-tier system wherein the gap is higher between the first and second tier and relatively small between the second and third tier,” said Bayne.

He said the training success rate was very high for air crew, both men and women.

Bayne said Hawks and Gripens had been well utilised in line with the current security environment.

He emphasised the need to retain the fighters as part of the SANDF’s deterrent force.

Denel displays new weapons for SA Army Badger system


http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31786:denel-to-debut-new-products-at-dsei&catid=7:Industry&Itemid=116

New innovations in landward defence products manufactured by Denel will debut internationally at the DSEI (Defence and Security Equipment International) exhibition in London this month.

“We have chosen DSEI to launch these systems internationally because it is the world’s largest fully-integrated defence expo and attracts industry leaders, decision-makers and analysts from across the globe,” Riaz Saloojee, Denel Group chief executive, said ahead of the exhibition which runs from next Tuesday to Friday.

On display for the first time will be the GI-30 30mm CamGun and the M10 – 60mm breech –loading mortar, both designed and manufactured at Denel Land Systems (DLS) in Lyttelton, Centurion.

“We are confident the GI-30 will impress and excite the industry and visitors to DSEI. It was developed as part of our contract to deliver a first class infantry combat vehicle (ICV) for the SA Army.

“It will be the main weapon system on the South African Badger ICV but can be easily fitted into other turrets on the market,” Stephan Burger, DLS chief executive, said.

He maintains both the GI-30 and the M10 mortar system are global leaders in their fields with unique features not yet available on other systems.

The GI-30 is an externally driven electro-mechanical cannon, utilising a drum-cam to cycle the breech to chamber rounds and extract spent cartridges. This reduces gases in the confines of a turret and improves the controlled firing rate. DLS designed the GI-30 to fire link-less 30 x 173mm ammunition through a dual feeder – a world-first for this kind of weapon.


As a single-shot weapon, it is seen as unique for its sniper mode of operation. Fired from a closed-breech position it offers more accurate fire because no movement takes place immediately before the round is fired. It has an effective range of 4 000 metres and can fire up to 100 rounds per minute.


The GI-30 CamGun uses SAPHEI, APFSDS (Armoured Piercing Fin-Stabilised Discarding Sabot) and TPT (Target Practice Type) ammunition types, designed and manufactured by Denel PMP (Pretoria Metal Pressings), as well as ammunition from Oerlikon and Nammo. Ammunition is replenished from a supply inside the turret.

Burger said the 60mm long-range mortar system was also developed in parallel with the Badger but can easily be adapted to fit into most standard turrets. Its range of 6 000 metres at sea level makes it a world leader in its class.

Another unique feature is its range of elevation -- from -5° to +70° -- which allows it to be employed in a direct fire application.

The new features make it an ideal weapon system for peace support operations and the changing nature of modern conflict in urban or other close environments. With its compact size and low recoil (54kN), the mortar can be fitted to light vehicles such as a pickup truck or even a boat.

The system can provide a sustained rate of fire of six rounds per minute or eight rounds per minute at one minute intervals – for 250 bombs.



https://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3023/amvifv30mm.jpg

Speaking of Special Forces, a SA Special Forces unit successfully conducted (yesterday) an exercise in which a one of their rigid inflatable boats was air dropped from a C130 aircraft. The exercise was designed to located and rescue a "striken" South African submarine SAS Queen Modjadji during Exercise Oxide.

Exercise Oxide - SA, French and Mozambican units.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31781:exercise-oxide-search-and-rescue-paradrop-meets-all-requirements&catid=108:maritime-security&Itemid=233

The air-dropped boat

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/images/stories/SEA/SEA_NEW/Pic3.jpg

SAS Modjadji with a light French Frigate

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/images/stories/SEA/SEA_NEW/picture1.jpg

Henry120: Don't you guys have a special forces team from the airforce or navy that can be deployed, like we do in nigeria? Like the guys pictured below.

South African Special Forces are a stand alone entity separate from the Army, Airforce or Navy. They answer to the Chief of Joint Operations, not any of the other Chiefs. 4 SF Regiment in the Western Cape would train operators in sea/land/air operations (bias in sea) and 5 SF Regiment in the Norther Cape would train operators in land/air/sea operations (bias in land).

Within the Airforce or Navy there a specialized units such as the maritime reaction squad.

Augustine Again: .

[size=16pt]meet nigerian army's best female sniper for year 2006...sergeant emily okpa [/size]

http://obiakpere..ca/2006/12/meet-nigerian-armys-best-female-sniper.html


[img]http://beegeagle.files./2012/11/407449_311906345523851_1365050652_n.jpg[/img]
.

What a useless article. How can you talk about being the best but not specify what makes you the best.
What range did she shoot at? What was her percentage accuracy? etc etc

Fail

In March the intervention brigade, which includes 1345 South African soldiers under the command of Colonel Patrick Dube, became the first to be given an offensive mandate by the UN Security Council.

Dube told The Times that SA troops had played a key role in this week's battles, the first time they were engaged in ground combat.

"They would still be fighting if we hadn't got involved," he said. He confirmed that snipers from 6 SA Infantry, based in Grahamstown, were deployed.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/09/02/sandf-in-congo-advance

Earlier comments by Generals about our snipers can be expected. The media were asking questions at a time when M23 were still in the hills of Goma and the situation was tense. No General is going to admit to having such assets at such a time which might put those assets at risk. Force commander Dube has now said that SA snipers are on the ground. But the shot would have come from a special forces operator, since regular infantry don't use the Denel NTW rifle. Almost only special forces.

NaijaPikinGidi: While you wait for a single drop of tear to form, you'll need to get out of the back rows and be brave enough to take on your M23 rebel nemesis! If 250 SANDF men could handle 3000 SELEKA men in CAR shouldn't M23 be an easy stroll through DRC? We've known your fraud all along! Now expose yourselves by yourselves! Get the unknown sniper to finish off the battle!

Like I told Agaugust. Email the president of M23 and tell him that he's mistaken.

http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/UN-peacekeeper-killed-in-DRC-fighting-20130829-2

However, the president of the M23 rebel movement, Bertrand Bisimwa, who spoke by telephone, said the UN's intervention brigade was on the frontline of Wednesday's fighting.

"It was the UN that was shooting directly at us, from their helicopters. It's the Tanzanian and South African [United Nations] troops that are on the frontline. It's them that we see first," he said.


END....OF.....DISCUSSION

NaijaPikinGidi: Snipe us all an M23 battalion. Wimp!

You'll let me know when you've stop crying. I have all the time in the world.

NaijaPikinGidi: Hard hitting facts of the matter in DRC. Tanzania were leading from day one! They are still leading as we speak today! The situation is being monitored closely. Tell all the lies, snipe to earth from planet Mars, we know the truth! SANDF wimps are cowering in the back rows while the brave infantry and SF of Tanzania do the real job! as we have said all the time ... Shiny weapons are useless in the hands of cowardly SANDF men! Fight! Fight!! Fight!!!

Cry us all a very big river .

agaugust: .

[size=16pt]NEWS : Only Tanzanian Army Has Fired On M23 Rebels So Far[/size]....

.

Your stupidity might remain constant, but news changes. Now email the M23 president and tell him that he is lying.
Tell him that he is mistaken.


http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/UN-peacekeeper-killed-in-DRC-fighting-20130829-2

However, the president of the M23 rebel movement, Bertrand Bisimwa, who spoke by telephone, said the UN's intervention brigade was on the frontline of Wednesday's fighting.

"It was the UN that was shooting directly at us, from their helicopters. It's the Tanzanian and South African [United Nations] troops that are on the frontline. It's them that we see first," he said.

UN SEEKS MORE ARTILLERY FROM SOUTH AFRICA

U.N asking us for our world renowned artillery pieces and Rooivalk. One wonders why they're
asking us, since according to Agaugust our troops are sitting down chatting on facebook while
Tanzania and FARDC clean up rebel fighters.

http://www.africanseer.com/news/african-news/305635-congo-kinshasa-un-seeks-further-artillery-for-drc.html

https://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/brent_best/misc/artillery_2010/photos/20100828_EOS350D_073749.jpg

agaugust: .

[size=16pt]UN Asks South African Army To Step Behind.....

....Moves Tanzanian Army To Frontline Battle In Congo DRC[/size]


UN wants the stronger and more experienced Tanzanian army to be in the frontline battles, thus throwing South African army backwards to watch and learn combat from their new Tanzanian military masters.


"A U.N. source said the South African government is not reluctant to combat the M23 rebels, but its forces were not needed in the latest engagement, which required only the use of the Tanzanian field artillery unit.

The intervention brigade commander used to be Tanzania's highest ranking artillery commander."

http://allafrica.com/stories/201308250124.html


Tanzanian army warriors doing Africa proud by protecting and teaching their DENEL equipped South African army brothers

https://edge.passblue.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Tanzanian-troops-in-DRC1.jpg

Thank you for posting a link from a week ago, days after heavy fighting involving SANDF troops occured.

Henry120: Give us an independent source, and not your south african news channel. All independent sources only make mention of Tanzanian troops, none for south africa.

Give an independent source.

Biggest load of bull ever. Show us one sources which talks about U.N Intervention Brigade fighting in DRC that mentions Tanzania and nothing about SA. What a joke.

Henry120: You do know the tanzanians and not the south african are leading the assault effort? South africa should ordinarily not be in congo as the tanzanians are doing all the work with the congolese.

Ah shame. Go cry me a river. "You do know....blah blah blah".

Congolese, South Africans, Tanzanians are all on the frontline fighting. It just hurts you to admit it.
Post an article or link showing that Tanzanians are "leading the assault". Just one link.
You think because the commander is Tanzanian it means all assaults must be lead by Tanzanians? Get out of hear with your jealous stupidity. There are independent South African bases around the hills of Goma, with soldiers from those units engaging in combat. U.N FIB is in this fight together, the only member that hasn't contributed at all is Malawi.

M23 withdraw from frontline

M23 rebels have withdraw their fighters from the frontline of Congolese, South African and Tanzanian troops.
Of course they gave some poor excuse as to why.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2013/08/201383084041158640.html


But we know why

https://www.dispatch.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/soldiers27072013.jpg

chris365: are you serious at all. I can agree to malawi not there yet but tanzania?

Of course Tanzania will have heavy casualties cos they are leading the offensive while SANDF will continue to do what it does best.. Fight from a distance cos they're scared to die.

1 dead Tanzanian soldier counts as "heavy casualties"?
Now if the South African soldier who was shot in the leg had been hit a bit higher up on his body and killed, what poor reasoning would you conclude from that? Would you then change your story to include him in the group that lead the offensive? Only those that get killed count as being brave fighters?

And to make things worse the Tanzanian was killed when a mortar landed near his posirion, meaning he wasnt necessarily at the front. While the South African was shot, meaning he was within range of machine gun fire. But you still give the fighting "credit" to the Tanzanian. Im tired of this useless thread....the foolishness.

chris365: and who is leading the mission?

You fled your real mission in CAR to play support in a UN mission.

Now CAR is a mess thanks to SANDF. No achievements

Yes because if SANDF were never in CAR, it currently would be a peaceful happy place to live in. Okay then. And what was our mission in CAR? I really have no time for poor logic.

SA and Tanzanian troops are fighting on the frontline, simple. You think because the commander is Tanzanian, by default the majority of troops in an attack must be Tanzanian? There are some stand-alone SA bases around Goma that have come under attack. You think we 1st waited for hours for Tanzanians to come before firing our mortars back? Like i said, i have no time for poor logic.

2smooth2shout: i see some south africans beating their chest for a mission in which they are just playing support to the brave Tanzanian special forces.
After they fled from a mission which was rightfuly their's to lead in CAR and show the world their capability to engage an enemy from afar.

Let's get one thing straight here. SANDF will always be behind Nigerian military in peace enforcement abroad.

Nigerian military achievements is not what SANDF can achieve in it's existence cos they have no balls to lead.

Take Kenya for instance, they didn't wait for approval from anyone, neither did they wait for UN to fund them before invading somalia and pushed back al shabab that is ten time powerful than seleka.

Ya'll can holla as you want, SANDF is not leading any attack, they are defending from behind while tanzania that has bigger balls is doing the dirty work.

And who is your source that we're hiding behind Tanzanians? agaugust? Haha ok then.

M23 leader states they see us on the frontline, firing at them. Simple.

Go SANDF!!

South African troops have been engaging M23 rebels directly. M23 leader states SA and Tanzanian troops are on the frontline and firing at them. 1 SA soldier has been shot in the leg, and two slightly wounded from shrapnel. 1 Tanzanian officer has been killed.

NaijaPikinGidi: Scared to own up?

Hence I said quote me. If you can't quote me just do all of us a favour and keep quiet.

NaijaPikinGidi: No! AndrewZA ... your comment appeared to suggest that NNS Thunder was obsolete and couldn't get to Australia on its initial full tank capacity. And that was exactly what Agaugust rightly pointed out in his response to you! Topping-up fuel was not necessary at that point of the journey ... but the Ship's Captain made the operational decision and rightly so ... as a precautionary measure. But how come you failed to correct the misleading comments from SAEngine and his co-idi.ots ... regarding the Ship's arrival, berthing and refueling procedures? It surely took our informed comments to make you clarify yours! Way to go!

Um please quote which comments i made about NNS RUSTBUCKET regarding it's arrival, berthing and refuelling procedures. Only thing i ever said about it was agreeing with u that Rustbucket arrived in Cape Town. Dont drag me into your useless debate.

2smooth2shout: you didn't read the news you posted. SANDF is not MONUSCO. They are not part of the offensive.
SANDF only engaged M23 in a defense against an attack by M23.
there have been steady clashes that involved MONUSCO since july till dat and SANDF is never part of the offensive.

I have posted your C-in-C's statement confirming it and here's another before his

SANDF Not Engaged With DRC Rebels
http://news.howzit.msn.com/top-news/sandf-not-engaged-with-drc-rebels

unless you want to openly confirm that your leaders(both military and poilitical) are all ignorant and daft for making such statements.

i know you are in a hurry to redeem yourselves from the seleka defeat, don't worry, that time might come in the next life if you fast and pray in this one....LWKMH

M23 is 15km outside Goma. M23 has not entered the town of Goma for months. Please do explain how SA troops were able to overrun an M23 machine gun post without physically moving into M23 positions.

SANDF is part of the intervention brigade attacking M23 positions, simple....very easy to usnderstand.

Read your own link and please quote what our defence spokeman says regarding SA troops within the intervention brigade.

2smooth2shout: this only proves my point. sANDF will not be attacking anything. They only retalliated to an attack. It's the only tactics SANDF know, that's why they can't win anything.

They waited for sleka to attack and fled when it was time to attack back. Check all your war history, south africa has never been in an all out offensive.

The time they tried it in lesotho, they got the worst embarrassment until SADC troops came to their rescue. .

SANDF is a gutless military

No you dont have a point.

Retaliation was done via 81mm mortars from our base to their positions.

The offensive was a separate attack on M23 positions to help DRC troops move forward. Hence the report says SANDF and M23 rebels were in "running" battles.

Shame it must really hurt you reading about what our troops are doing. Shame.

2smooth2shout: this only proves my point. sANDF will not be attacking anything. They only retalliated to an attack. It's the only tactics SANDF know, that's why they can't win anything.

They waited for sleka to attack and fled when it was time to attack back. Check all your war history, south africa has never been in an all out offensive.

The time they tried it in lesotho, they got the worst embarrassment until SADC troops came to their rescue. .

SANDF is a gutless military

No you dont have a point.

Retaliation was done via our mortar teams with 81mm mortarts.

The attack on the rebels was a seperate offensive. To help DRC troops move forward.

It must really hurt you seeing our troops doing what they do. Shame.

2smooth2shout: ignorant kid..SMH

all this while you were bragging that your troops are in DRC, you don't even have a clue of what their mandate is. Trully ignorant.

Their mandate is an offensive on rebel positions, disarm and hunt down rebel groups.

How will they do that if they don't move forward to enemy territories and push back the enemy to a choke point?

Well, your commander in chief has already confessed you won't be fighting. So in other word, your soldiers are cowards who just parade denel weapons as marketing strategies.

It's not a must to yarn especially when you are this ignorant.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/08/26/sa-soldiers-on-offensive

SA soldiers on offensive

South African soldiers engaged in running battles with M23 rebels in the Democratic Republic of Congo overran a rebel machine gun post at the weekend, halting the rebels' advance.

According to Pikkie Greeff, national secretary of the SA Defence Union, the DRC troops were advancing on the M23 positions but came under heavy fire from a machine gun.

"There are only two ways you can take out a machine gun post - either by sniper or with a stick of men sneaking up to the position and taking it out," said Greeff.

"We do not know what they did but the South African soldiers took out the machine gun post."

South African soldiers are part of the UN's Monusco brigade, which has been assigned to take on the the M23 rebels. SANDF troops, who have been subjected to mortar fire since Friday, are holding positions around Goma.

"The rebels have been raining mortars on refugee camps around Goma and the UN forces have returned fire," he said.

Siphiwe Dlamini, spokesman for the Department of Defence, said the South African "force has been retaliating since the shelling of their positions began".

It has been reported that five civilians were killed in rebel mortar fire.

One South African soldier was wounded by shrapnel from a mortar shell but Dlamini said his injuries were not serious.

Monusco soldiers have joined government forces on the offensive against the rebels, Monusco spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Felix-Prosper Basse told the BBC.

"Fighting has entered a new phase: Monusco is now engaging the rebels together with the government forces," Basse said.

The BBC reported that two UN helicopters were involved in the latest operation, which was being backed by the Congolese army.

Monusco and the Congolese army are jointly attacking rebel positions in Kibati, about 15km north of Goma.



This should be the last time this article should be posted, in case anyone still doubts if we're fighting or not. As the battle continues more articles will be posted. And for the last time, the SANDF is not in command of the operation, so please don't ask us why we aren't doing this or doing that. SA troops are following the U.N Commander's orders.

andrewza: Who said there was only one MG, who said there where not other solders in the area, what about a radio opertor to receive instrucstions for the MG team. This info is not kown. It could have been 1 guy in a foxhole with a PKM or a trench sytem with mutpil over lapping 14.5mm HMGs. So unless you where there I would not speak.

If selka can destor a MG post why did they not over run our base. We only had 4 12.7mm HMGs

He just wants to say anything that will take away from the fact that SA troops are fighting hardened rebels 1000's of kilometers from home. He'll post any rubbish to discredit them.

agaugust: dont let us repeat old posts, there is no source in the whole world that says anti-aircraft missiles like umkhonto are also anti-missile missiles specifically designed to intercept sea hugging anti-ship missiles.

dont create military combat that looks like kiddies video games you bought for your 5 year old son

notice @andrewza could not argue that fact and he is avoiding this topic because he knows the truth.

the only defence valour frigate has against a sea skimming anti-ship missile is the 35mm CIWS DENEL gun, and it has only one.

show me a source that says anti-aircraft missiles also work as interceptors of sea skimming anti-ship missiles, show me, fool

.

Showed you the source. You refused to believe it. Denel engineers don't need to specify details just to make you happy. Denel states Umkhonto is a surface to air, and self defence missile. It's superior, world class fire control system doesn't have to prove itself to you. World 1st missile, with superior technology.

Done. Discussion over.