₦airaland Forum

RedboneSmith:
Lmao! There was a caught!

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.bbc.com/igbo/afirika-48565792&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiPgLLynb7tAhXI2qQKHaWeBrQQFjAOegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw3am-fbxDHnMAVrzuqkDP9h

Could you please interpret for us what they are saying in Igbo in the above BBC documentary?

Are Oguta people in Imo State (heart of Igbo land) saying they were from Benin, if so why are the Igbo crucifying Ikwerre of Rivers state, south south for making the same claim.

gregyboy:
And how we quick awolowo in his boss by pulling out in his face.....

The Midwest was the first people to break out from the three region

Respect......

And awolowo drank poison to run from his fulani brother's

It took the Benin just 3 years, 1963 after the British colonial masters left in 1960 to breakaway from the western region. Benin didn't just leave alone, we left with the entire people of mid west (Edo and Delta). Till date, we are the only people to have achieved this fit in Nigeria.

Other minority groups in the North and east couldn't do the same.

gregyboy:
Sorry about that these yoruba makes me angry when they play with myth as history

No worries. Archeological dating of Ife to the first decade of the 16th century already killed the Benin/Ife relationship story.

[quote author=Ideadoctor post=97095328][/quote]there was nothing like Benin until the Portuguese call you that your name is bini

Can you now see why I said it will be very difficult to educate you? Your knowledge of history is very limited.

The Portuguese didn't name Bini, they met the name bini, Ubini which they anglicised Benin.

But there was nothing in resemblance to Yoruba in Nigeria before 1800s that was either misspelt or anglicised.

Maybe it's best you stick to your Fulani rulers in Kwara rather than trolling Benin related history to display your ignorance.

Ideadoctor:
.

how logical is your statement above, you said the Yoruba until recent call Benin people as IFA people, you said the Benin taught IFA divinations to the Yorubas.....are you serious or just been mischievous? through out the world everyone knows that the Yoruba people invented the IFA divination system, the IFA chants are recited in Yoruba, mentioning the experience and life of Yoruba orishas and prominent deified anscenstor. Orunmila was the actual founder of IFA, with his philosophy of " what has happen before is still what will happen,nothing is new under the son" orunmila traveled the length and breadth of Yoruba cities teaching them IFA, orunmila had compiled 256 0du( verses) these verses contain all experiences that everyman pass through in life, in order to memorize the enormous odus,orunmila used the mnemonic device of chanting, chanting makes it easy and fun to learn the 256 odus, any one who succeeded in learning the odus is called a " Babalawo" an initiate,to recognized and distinguish odus orunmila use a form of binary coding, a specific odu is represented by a specific pattern, palm nut is used to acquire pattern of odus for divination,opele is another instrument used for divination..... Yoruba ifa divination was introduced to colony States such has Dahomey and Bini, it was introduced to the igalas through normal religious influence, IFA as gone worldwide as a result of the Atlantic slave trade. please we should not misinform people just to feed our tribal pride and ego

It's obvious you are not very well versed in Yoruba history and it will be had work trying to educate you assuming you genuinely want to learn.

For a start there where no such people called Yoruba people in Nigeria before the 1800s, if you can provide evidence there were, maybe I can take you serious.

To start debating Yoruba history, you must first know how Yoruba people came to be.

gregyboy:
The oba of benin version is also a lie ridoff our history from myth i beg you.....

You will think you're doing it good but you ain't

The oba of benin version is a lie too

Guy, the purpose of what I posted was not to show or imply that the Oba of Benin version was right, how could you even come to such conclusion when the same reference said archeological findings dates Ife to the 16th century.

If you are familiar with the Benin/Ife relationship, you would realised that Oranmiyan coming to Benin was dated to the 12th century, how could this be if archeological findings only dates Ife to the 16th century?

Please always read and understand. I submitted and highlighted the bit that was relevant to my argument, I could have deleted the rest I didn't agree with but it would have been disingenuous.

I like to present the full picture and then debate it rather than presenting half of what was said.

I hope I have made myself clear enough, besides this is not the first time of reading my submissions on Benin/Ife relationship and I expected you to have known my stand on it by now.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.bbc.com/igbo/afirika-48565792&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiPgLLynb7tAhXI2qQKHaWeBrQQFjAOegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw3am-fbxDHnMAVrzuqkDP9h

Numerous tribes in southern and middle belt Nigeria traces their roots back to Benin.

valirex:
Oni was the chief priest of Ifa from the beginning before Awolowo changed Ooni priesthood into kingship. The ultimate king of Yoruba is Alaffi of Oyo.
The same position of Ooni was the position of Ogiefa of Benin, Ogiefa was the diviners and priest of Efa as Onni is priest of Ifa. Benin call it Efa, Urhobo call it Efa, Igbo call it Afa too, Yoruba call it Ifa.
#Photospeak.

TAO11 Oya come and start wailing

Etrusen
samuk
AreaFada2
gregyboy
Etinosa1234

The Benin people where actually known as Efa or Ifa people in time past by the Yoruba. Ooni was the chief priest in Ife that was practicing the version of Benin Iha divination which they called Ifa.

The fact that the Ooni was a mere chief priest is very well known in Yoruba land. The Awujale of Ijebu said so himself. Yoruba historian Samuel Johnson in his , The history of Yoruba people, piblished in 1921. wrote that the Ooni was a mere shrine keeper.

The Ooni was elevated to the status of an Oba in the 1930s.

Prof. Biobaku has suggested that the eastern fringe of what is now Yorubaland was in pre-Yoruba days thinly inhabited by the ancestors of the modern Benin people, a people which he called the Efa. And if recent archaeological evidence would seem to indicate that Ife was built not before the first decade of the 16th century thereby making it to be younger than Benin, then the Oranmiyan tradition has been miscon-strued and the Benin version (The Oba of Benin's version,), not Egharervba's version, becomes more tenable.

Ideadoctor:
let Oni of ife stand and let Oba of Benin stand, and let see if oba of Benin will say what you claim he said, Ooni is the spiritual fathee of all those who share affinity with ife including Benin

The late Oba of Benin told the late Ooni of Ife that Oduduwa was from Benin and the current Oba of Benin told the current Ooni, Emir of Kanu, Sultan of Sokoto and the entire world during his coronation that Oranmiyan was a Benin prince. Look for the Oba of Benin coronation speech on YouTube and listen to it yourself.

Whose spiritual father is the Ooni? Oba of Lagos recognises the Oba of Benin as his father not the Ooni, look of the video of Oba of saying so during the one year anniversary of the coronation of oba of Benin on YouTube.

Olugbo, Awujale don't recognise Ooni as their superior let alone spiritual father, you are living in a dream land.

The Ooni is not even Tinubu spiritual father, as a Muslim, the Sultan of Sokoto is Tinubu's spiritual father if you really know the meaning of spiritual father.

Ideadoctor:
great historical figures are mythified to add glory to their glory,take for example, the great Macedonian king Alexander the great who conquered all empires, was mythified at the apex of His greatness, it is rumored that he is the son of Olympus one of the Greek deities, and their are a lot of stories about him that are more mythical than historical, but that does change the fact that he once lived as a man,oduduwa is not an exception, Yorubas are one of the largest tribes in Africa, spreading from Nigeria as far as Sierra Leone, and yet they believe that they descended or have affinity with oduduwa, if oduduwa is not real his name would not have Been popular so fae

Samuel Johnson in his book which has already been provided talked about Oduduwa being a myth and the Oduduwa Saudi Arabia origin which Tao said was the creation of the Sultan of Sokoto.

The Sultan of Sokoto sold the Yoruba a dummy by turning Your mythical Oduduwa into a historical figure from Saudi Arabia in other to make it easy to convert the Yoruba to Islam

All Yoruba muslims (more than half Yoruba population and their Obas) today have the Sultan of Sokoto as their spiritual leader/head not the Ooni.

The Yoruba only woke up in 2010 to realised the political and spiritual implications of what Sultan Belo did in the 1800s and decided to author a book linking the mythical Oduduwa to Ife but the damage has already been done. How are you going to convince Yoruba muslims who take spiritual directives from Sultan of Sokoto not to do so.

More than half Yoruba population is under the spiritual and political leadership of the Sokoto caliphate and I don't see this changing soon.

The Hausa/Fulani you call illiterates have always be ahead of you. Being able to write in English language doesn't make you clever and smart.

TAO11:
LMAO! All I see is a pained and insecure lad who dared not present a case against even one of my arguments, thereby affirming them implicitly. Haha

Anyways, thank you for admitting publicly that you could not possibly muster a single come-back to address even one of my arguments. Keep it up lad!

Having now implicitly admitted that your diatribe and delusion have been debunked, may you now confirm to me if the following individuals are truly mere fictional cartoons (rather than real human beings) as some Binis have being suggesting lately:

Eweka I, Uwakhuahen, Henmihen, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifiokun, Ewuare I, among others.

I hope to hear from you on this in due course. Thank you!

Cheers!

Cc: gomojam, Amujale, macof, babtoundey, scholes0, Balogunodua, SaintBeehot, reallest, talktrue1234, Gratefulheart1, DenreleDave, Newton85

You have no argument, Oduduwa is a myth according to Yoruba early historical accounts....see S. Johnson, if you believe otherwise, you can carry on debating myth with yourself, I thought you have grown beyond that.

Samuel Johnson in his book which has already been provided talked about Oduduwa being a myth and the Oduduwa Saudi Arabia origin which you said was the creation of the Sultan of Sokoto.

The Sultan of Sokoto sold the Yoruba dummy by turning Your mythical Oduduwa into an historical figure from Saudi Arabia in other to make it easy to convert the Yoruba to Islam

All Yoruba muslims (more than half Yoruba population and their Obas) today have the Sultan of Sokoto as their spiritual leader/head not the Ooni.

The Yoruba only woke up in 2010 to realised the political and spiritual implications of what Sultan Belo did in the 1800s and decided to author a book linking the mythical Oduduwa to Ife but the damage has already been done. How are you going to convince Yoruba muslims who take spiritual directives from Sultan of Sokoto not to do so.

More than half Yoruba population is under the spiritual and political leadership of the Sokoto caliphate and I don't see this changing soon.

The Hausa/Fulani you call illiterates have always be ahead of you. Being able to write in English language doesn't make you clever and smart.

TAO11:
This is so revealing! I never knew. /s lol!

First of all, the extensively widespread Yoruba account (shown in your first attachment) that Oduduwa is a son of God sent from heaven to Ife, etc. is obvious enough as a non-historical account.

In fact, S. Johnson himself made that clear (on that page of your first attachment) that this is a mythological narrative rather than a historical account. As a gentle reminder, what we’re examining here are historical accounts.

I have discussed this contrast in details in one of my earlier comments on this page. You may refer to the box below for quick guidance on that:


Regarding the second account (shown in your second attachment), my initial comment goes thus: If by your phrase “an indigenous historian” you meant that Johnson is a Yoruba man who gathered accounts that speak of his people, then your usage is correct.

But if by this phrase you meant that the Middle-East story in his book is actually of Yoruba origination; then your phrase is ignorantly false.

Having said that, Samuel Johnson himself made it clear that the oldest traceable origination of this Middle-East story is in the writings of Sultan Bello of Sokoto which he was only able to access via Captain Clapperton.

Your second attachment is taken from page 3 of S. Johnson's work. If you had bothered to go down some two more pages, then you would have found where Johnson continued and clarified that the oldest known root of this Middle-East story is from Sultan Bello of Sokoto.

On this, Rev. Samuel Johnson writes (quoting Captain Clapperton’s extract of Sultan Bello’s story) and I quote here:

“The only written record we have on this subject is that of the Sultan Belo of Sokoto, the founder of that city, the most learned if not the most powerful of the Fulani sovereigns that ever bore rule in the Soudan.

Capt. Clapperton (Travels and Discoveries in Northern and Central Africa, 1822—1824) made the acquaintance of this monarch. From a large geographical and historical work by him, Capt. Clapperton made a copious extract, from which the following is taken :-- “Yarba is an extensive province containing rivers, forests, sands and mountains, as also a great many wonderful and extraordinary things. In it, the talking green bird called babaga (parrot) is found.”

“By the side of this province there is an anchorage or harbor for the ships of the Christians, who used to go there and purchase slaves. These slaves were exported from our country and sold to the people of Yarba, who resold them to the Christians.”

“The inhabitants of this province (Yarba) it is supposed originated from the remnant of the children of Canan, who were of the tribe of Nimrod. The cause of their establishment in the West of Africa was, as it is stated, in consequence of their being driven by Yar-rooba, son of Kahtan, out of Arabia to the Western Coast between Egypt and Abyssinia. From that spot they advanced into the interior of Africa, till they reach Yarba where they fixed their residence. On their way they left in every place they stopped at, a tribe of their own people. Thus it is supposed that all the tribes of the Soudan who inhabit the mountains are originated from them as also are the inhabitants of Ya-ory. Upon the whole, the people of Yarba are nearly of the same description as those of Noofee (Nupe)*”“

~ Rev. Samuel Johnson, “The History of the Yorubas”, Completed 1897, Published 1921, pp. 5-6.


Make sure to read up on what “revisionism” means, and then supplement such understanding with my antepenultimate comment — particularly where I touched on this same idea.

Well, if your use of “we” here means that you are a member of the royal family of Benin Kingdom, then the “official” account of Benin kingdom states that your ancestors are originally Ife-Yoruba people.

Refer to pages 65-78 of Dmitri M. Bondarenko, “Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point,” History in Africa, 2003, Vol. 30.

But if your parents are not born of the Benin royalty, then you may not really bother about any such "official" account of Benin Kingdom.

On a side note however, the origin of the Binis generally is given as follows in one of Chief Eghrevba’s works:

“Many centuries ago, the Binis came from Egypt in one of those migrations common to many tribes seeking more fertile land or a more secure retreat from an enemy. They halted a while in Sudan, then at Ife whence they came to this land.”

~ J. U. Egarevba, “The Origin of Benin”, 1954, p. 6.

Cheers!

Cc: gomojam, Amujale, macof, babtoundey, scoles0, Balogunodua, SaintBeehot, reallest, talktrue1234, Gratefulheart1, DenreleDave, Newton85

Why all these epistle when the summary of what you are trying to say is.

1. Yoruba early accounts of the origin of Oduduwa says he was a mythical figure.

2. Saudi Arabia origin of Oduduwa, but there are no records of this in Saudi Arabia

3. Benin Origin of Oduduwa

4. Ife 2010 origin of Oduduwa.

None of the above have an historical backing. Oduduwa was nothing but myth.

Everyone parading themselves as children of Oduduwa today, killed, sacrificed and sold each other into slavery pre-1800.

Stop digging yourself into a bigger hole. Oduduwa was a mythical figure.

Etinosa1234:
Samuel Johnson gave two accounts of Oduduwa as at early 20th century

The account that Oduduwa came from ife is recent revisionism

Most Yoruba people know she is lying but because of their herd mentality, none of them will challenge her.

I warned her before that teachable moments await her.

Her specialty is the rubbishing of Great Benin history, meanwhile she can't give a convincing answer to the origin of Oduduwa, Yoruba's most famous personality/myth.

Even the Oba of Benin wrote many decades earlier that Oduduwa (person/myth) was from Benin yet the so called most sophisticated people only just woke up in 2010 to claim Ife Origin of Oduduwa.

If Tao must keep lying, she has to be doing it on Yoruba threads, the Yorubas can keep lying to themselves on their threads not Benin related threads.

TAO11:
Yes, only one of them (the early 1800s account of Sultan Bello of Sokoto) touches on our subject here. And that is the now popular account which ascribes a Middle Eastern roots to Oduduwa.


The general objective of these authors appears

Having said that, the text which I noted to have faintly hinted something along the line of our discourse here is a 1666 French translation of an old Coptic text.

This French pamphlet is cited on pages 153-154 of Louis J. Morié’s “Les Civilisations Africaines Histoire de L’ Éthiopie (Nubie Et Abyssinie),” 1904, first published 1897.

Morié’s citation of this pamphlet makes mention of different well-known deified Yoruba heroes by name.

In fact, it also specifically mentions the country of origin of one of them by name — as follows:

“le roi Chango ..., était, d’après les récits mêmes des noirs, un roi de Kousch, d’où son surnom d’Obba-Kouso, roi de Kousch. Né à Ifé ...”

Translation:
“King Shango ..., was, according to the very accounts of the blacks themselves, a king of Kush, hence his nickname of Oba Koso, king of Kush. Born in Ife ...”

In the light of the Yoruba traditional account that Shango is strictly patrilineal descended from Oduduwa (Oduduwa’s great-grandson); this Coptic tradition appears then to be the only pre-1800 writing which gives a hint on Oduduwa’s roots.

In other words, if this Coptic account is anything to go by, then it appears then that even the distant Copts agree with the indigenous Ife account that Oduduwa (i.e. Sango’s paternal great-grandfather) is an Ife indigene himself.

Having said that, this Coptic account also seems in some general way (rather than in its specific details) to bolster the reigning Ooni’s statement (which you erroneously brought up) where it states that this individual of Ife roots (i.e. Shango) once ruled as king in the land of Kush.

In the light of the Yoruba traditional account that Shango is strictly patrilineal descended from Oduduwa (Oduduwa’s great-grandson); this Coptic tradition appears then to be the only pre-1800 writing which gives a hint on Oduduwa’s roots.

How Does Your above Bolded statement suggests that Oduduwa was originally a native of Ife, How? How?, ............Sango was only linked to Oduduwa, that's all. Not Oduduwa origin.

People have suggested here that history students or historians are not as clever, smart and bright as scientists, you seems to be confirming this with your submissions.

The simple question is, what other sources since the 16th century linked Oduduwa origin to Ife apart from your 2010 reference?

You thought you were dealing with your regular unintelligent students and readers, so you wrote pages of reply without actually answering the question.

You quoted a 1904 French source that linked Sango to Oduduwa, even if these entities were not gods/myths, how does:

1. Sango being the grandson of Oduduwa mean/translates into meaning that Oduduwa was from Ife.

2. How does Sango being born in Ife mean Oduduwa was originally from Ife.

3. Even the Oba of Benin agree that Oranmiyan ( son/grandson of Oduduwa) was born in Ife, how does this mean that Oduduwa was originally from Ife.

You wrote long epistle trying to cite French and Coptic texts but ended up not answering the simple question of any earlier historical sources backing Ife 2010 accounts of the Origin of Oduduwa being from Ife.

There is nowhere in your French and Coptic references that say Oduduwa was a native of Ife.

Is it not a shame that you have to blame the Hausa/Fulani of Sokoto for teaching the middle east origin of Oduduwa to Yoruba people, including your early historians, present historians, earlier and present Obas who still parrot Oduduwa middle east origin.

After telling everyone that you guys are the most sophisticated and educated in Nigeria, yet the history of Yoruba most important figure, Oduduwa was give to you by the Hausas you all refer to as illiterates.

Can you now see why most of you are educated illiterates?

Tao is telling us that Oduduwa middle east origin since 1800s was a lie told and fabricated by the Hausas and the Yoruba only woke up from their slumber in 2010 to make correction, so much for Yoruba acclaimed education and sophistication.

You are in this problem, because you are trying to support your 2010 Oduduwa Ife origin lie, because it was a fabrication based on ego rather than historical accounts.

You just don't wake up one day in 2010 and write some garbage as history and expect clever people to just accept it.

One can only wonder the IQ of those that applaud you.

Haven't been unable to answer the question, the question remains.

You can't be dabbling into Benin history all the time without being able to give a convincing historical account of Oduduwa origin.

TAO11:
Samuk

No where in your video did the Ooni claim that Oonis descended from Osiris in Egypt.

His statement, instead, is the direct opposite — he claimed that Osiris of Egypt descended from Ooni.

In other words, he never claimed an Egyptian origin for Oduduwa contrary to what you’re fraudulently desperate to pass to your fellow gullible Binis.
————————

Moreover, the early 1800s story of a foreign roots for Oduduwa did not originate from within Yorubaland.

Rather, it originated for the first time in Hausaland from the stories of Sultan Bello of Sokoto. Your insecurity is so loud retard.

On the other hand, the historical account I cited originates from Ife; was published in a scholarly work much earlier than 2 0 1 0 [even though the year makes zero difference since the older contrary accounts originated from Hausaland rather than from Ife or anywhere in Yorubaland]; and it specifically makes it clear that Oduduwa is a Yoruba man from Ife. — please commit suicide.


Cc: gomojam, talktrue1234, reallest, SaintBeehot, Balogunodua, Gratefulheart1, DenreleDave, Amujale, babtoundey, scholes0

So the Ooni claimed that the Egyptian God Osiris came from Ooni and the Ooni become Osiris when they die according to Tao.

Does this now mean Egyptians were from Ife?

Wonderful

No amount of insults can free you from this hole you put yourself.

We have been variously told by the Yoruba that Oduduwa was

1. From the Sky
2. From Saudi Arabia
3. From Egypt
4. From Ife
5. From Benin
6. Egyptian God Osiris are now from Ooni

The Yoruba and Tao will not kill someone with their lies and confusions about Oduduwa origin on Nairaland.

You are parading yourself as nairaland historian, claiming to know Benin history more than the Benin themselves but you can't convince us on the correct origin of your mythical Oduduwa.

We are not going to accept a mere 2010 citations on the origin of Oduduwa, the most famous Yoruba figure. What happened to all your 12th century Yufi, 14th century Ogane, 16th century Coptic and Arabic texts, 1765, 1845 and 1896 history of Yoruba books you qoute and references all over nairaland? Are you saying none of them say nothing about the Origin of Oduduwa or the Hausas wrote all these books.

TAO11:
@Tollyboy5’s reasoning:
I would accept sky-descent, creation, or even evolution; provided the geographical area in question is the Middle-East.

What my mind is never going to accept is if the same thing is claimed to have happened within Africa.
——————————
@Samuk’s reasoning:
I would accept the statement of the reigning Ooni even if such statement is his personal fancy which he never claimed to be an indigenous IFE narration.

What my mind is never going to accept are contrary peer-reviewed academic and scholarly statements published years before he became king and directly stated to be an indigenous IFE narration.

NB: Moreover, even this statement of his doesn’t mention anywhere in the video that Ooni-ship descended from Osiris/Egypt.

Rather, his statement here, as shown plainly in this video, is the direct opposite of that. To quote is words: “... Ooni ... become [sic] Osiris ...”


Cc: gomojam, talktrue1234, reallest, SaintBeehot, Balogunodua, Gratefulheart1, DenreleDave, Amujale, babtoundey.

So the Ooni who is supposed to be the custodian of Yoruba and Ife culture is talking garbage and living in a fantasy world according to Tao.

So it's Ooni personal fantasy or fancy to link Ooni to Egypt according to Tao

Every notable traditional rulers that claims links to the mythical Oduduwa agree that he was a foreigner to Ife, the current Ooni, his immediate predecessor, the current Oba of Benin and his father all agree the mythical Oduduwa was a none native of Ife.

Both literate and illiterate Yoruba were either taught at school or Oral history that Oduduwa was from the middle east.

But Tao wants everyone to burn all history books written since the 1800s saying the mythical Oduduwa was not from Ife and accept her almighty 2010 scholarly work. This is not only desperation but an obsession with lies.

Maybe Tao should go to Ife and teach the Ooni his history.

This imposter that wants to be holier than the Pope and more Ife than the Ooni is not even from Ife.

tollyboy5:
Samuk ive read all the yeye link of evidence. And noticed even the historians don't know where the oduduwa group came from
Even the other settlement has no ancestral root.

Just ask the simple question again and see how they'll post irrelevant data to read unnecessary story.

The context lack basic logic.
Question
1. Where did oduduwa came from?
2. What ancestor ?
3.What people?
Answer
Slflflcclcoco. lcldldlclcxlflclcfclclccclflfl.....
Flflfflfldcdk 1985 fkflfflfkdldhsjsejsjdjsjejdk
Dkdkdkdldfff Mr dkdkdkdk 1834 flffl......

I've wonder how simple question turn to story with no answer.
Abi maybe people were created in the Niger area
Shame on we Africans. The Yoruba history we were thought said oduduwa was from middle-east also.
It shows all recent apologist history has no sensible prove of the group of people oduduwa decended from.
We'll destroy all the historical liars. See someone calling me impostor . see awori is calling impostor.
Awori 4 dat mata I don't have anything to sey. Awori that I know very well won't hesitate to bend history for money.

You know her too well and your description of her at your bolded is absolutely correct .

The saddest thing is that even the Yoruba people that know he/she is lying will keep applauding her. You are very different from these lilliputian.

Listen in the video below and hear the Ooni linking Ooni to Egypt.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxZAXb0XVwI

IDENNAA:

So, Bini people founded Asaba and Onicha..lmao. If you like send Ambassador to moon but you can't grow taller than you are. Asaba and Onicha has absolutely nothing in common with you Bini. Not in culture, in looks, in language or any danm thing. These places even the inferior Ikwerre are traditionally Igbo in all ramifications. You are a Yoruba sub tribe!

History of Onitsha by Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe.


Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Genealogy and Nativity

"Thus, in tracing my paternal lineage, I could say that both parents of my father are direct descendants of Eze Chima. As for me, I can trace my paternal ancestry in this wise: I am the first son of Chukwuemeka, who was the third child and first son of Azikiwe, who was the second son of Molokwu, who was the third son of Ozomaocha, who was the second son of Inosi Onira, who was the fourth son of Dei, the second son of Eze Chima, the founder of Onitsha." SOURCE - Nnamdi A zikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p4 "I can trace my maternal ancestry thus: I am the first son of Nwanonaku Rachel Chinwe Ogbenyeanu (Aghadiuno)Azikiwe, who was third daughter of Aghadiuno Ajie, the fifth son of Onowu Agbani, first daughter of Obi Udokwu, the son who descended from five Kings of Onitsha. Five of these rulers of Onitsha were direct lineal descendants of Eze Chima, who led his warrior adventurers when they left Benin to establish the Onitsha city state in about 1748 AD." SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p5 "One day I asked her (grandmother) the meaning of the word 'Onitsha'. She explained that it had historical significance. The terminology meant one who despised another. It is a contraction of two words, Onini to despise, and Ncha meaning others. So that the two words when joined together mean one who despises others. Then I asked her why we despised others. She patted me on the back and told me that it was due to our aristocratic background and tradition. I insisted that she should explain to me the basis of this supercilious social attitude. She told me that we despised others because we descended from the Royal House of Benin and so regarded ourselves as the superiors of other tribes who had no royal blood in their veins....." "I continued to belabor my grandmother to tell me more of the history and origins of the Onitsha people. She narrated that many many years ago, there lived at Idu (Benin) a great Oba who had many children. Due to a power struggle regarding the right of precedence among princes of the blood and other altercations, there was a civil war in Benin. One day, the supporters of one of the princes insulted and assaulted Queen Asije, the mother of of the Oba of Benin, who was accused of having trespassed on their farmland. Enraged at this evidence of indiscipline and lawlessness, the Oba ordered his war chief and brother, Gbunwala Asije to apprehend and punish the insurgents. In the attempt to penalise them, Chima, the ultimate founder of the Onitsha city-state, a prince of the blood in his own right, led the recalcitrants against his Uncle, Gbunwala[b]. This intensified the civil war which rent the kingdom of Benin in two and led to the founding of Onitsha Ado N'Idu[/b]....... ..." "As the great trek from Benin progressed, some did not have the stout heart of the pioneer-warrior, and decided to settle at different places, known today as Onitsha -Ugbo, Onitsha-Olona, Onitsha-Mili, Obior, Issele Ukwu, Ossomari, Aboh, etc..." SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity"

Ofunwa111:
As usual, Tao11 be dishing out facts to prove their Oba dynasty is from Ife, but these boys won't agree or bring proofs to dispute it, but want others to believe their stories when they have no fact.

These Bini boys just come online to display inferiority complex at it's peak while deceiving themselves thinking they are great. In summary,

Gregboy- Bini boy, who doesn't want any attachment with any tribe even Igbanke. (At least he knows they are Igbos). For him, he's only concerned with the the Edo nations and that includes the Edoids in other states, but he is finding it hard to believe the Oba Dynasty is of Ife, even when he has seen facts. lol. It makes him weep and give him sleepless nights. Oboy, as long as you are not royalty, do not cry, you are still Bini.

AreaFada and Samuk - Bini boys who want to claim every tribe, even ready to call Fulani and Jukun people Benins. lol.. The real inferior ones.

Etrusen - Feeling Nostalgia about their past and would want every tribe to worship them, or at least claim Benin origin. He denies Ogiemen was king, but his brother Igbinazaka Ogiesuyi is on Facebook telling the world pure truth, because he brings fact.

Valirex & Nazee - Bini boys who do not even know right from left.

In the end they are #smallandstillslaves.

Let psychoanalys the mentality of the average Yoruba and Benin to determine who behave like a slave.

The Yoruba here on nairaland will always agree with anything Tao writes, no matter how obvious the lies and no matter what their own education taught them. They will even praise her to high heavens for such lies.

Example: The average Yoruba were taught that their mythical Oduduwa came from the middle east (Saudi Arabia or Egypt). Hundreds of books were written about these since 1800s and the current Ooni recently linked Oduduwa to Egypt but as soon as Tao quoted a 2010 book, none of them will come out to challenge her because the average Yoruba don't have independent of taught, they have herd mentality. They are like ships that can easily be lead to the slaughter house.

This is the reason slavery thrived in the west during the era of slavery and there were hardly any Benin that was taken into slavery.

Benin person is always ready to demand further explanation or proof from a fellow Benin person on anything he/she is not convinced on. The only challenge Tao had was from an Ijebu guy maybe because the Ijebus are reluctant Yorubas.

Etrusen:
my bro it is advisable you ignore her because her argument is base on lies trying to claim mythical Oduduwa was an ife man

nothing more


they should use their strength to rescue their brothers in kwara because Benin will always be a waste of time for them.

You are right, the reason I sometimes reply their lies is because of those who may genuinely seek real history because Nigeria schools no longer teaches history.

Imagine someone coming up with a reverse migration lies of Ezechima when everyone including Zik and his grandmother said Ezechima was from Benin.

IDENNAA:
Akuko maka ife melu na Obodo Iduu na Oba ( war between the Bini land and Iduu people( Onicha/Umuezechima)) as my late grandmother (Iyom Nnebuenyi) would often start when he told us stories of the past. The story was told by fleeing Umuezechima people when they settled at Onicha mmili. The story captured the event that led to the war that drove Onicha people out of their land which is in the vicinity of Bini. Many resettled in Anioma while the rest crossed the Niger with the help of Igala fishermen. That is how Onicha mmili was founded.

Has anyone not told you that this thread is not for unproven super stories?

Who are Idu people Benin fought with?

For your information, Idu is another name for Benin. Idu is what Anioma people call Benin people, so from your story Benin people fought themselves and the Ezechima who were Benin and Idu left eastward just as other people such as the Esan of Edo North went Northward.

The guy that asked the question should go and read Nnamdi Azikiwe accounts of Onitsha origin for proper education.

TAO11:
You’re a fatuous, janus-faced mythomaniac and pathological liar. It’s not surprising anyways — you’re a Bini.

The embedded image below shows a screenshot of my answer — from your own “Quote” for that matter. [Compare: https://www.nairaland.com/6291440/benin-remain-center-west-africa/2#96804198]
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12801654_024e349b8a57436a849c421ea2955e89_jpeg_jpeg0ba370bee0618f6bd001a415aef98058

I’ve always known that Bini liars are not your regular liars.

Bini liars are such liars that must be ragged, humiliated and publicly disgraced before they would come to their senses, recant and feel remorseful for lying.

Again, the embedded image below shows a screenshot of the indigenous Ife account of Oduduwa’s origin — with the scholarly reference and citations for that matter. [Compare: https://www.nairaland.com/6291440/benin-remain-center-west-africa/4#96807302]
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12807748_252a089f7ab349488091c418c293c781_jpeg_jpeg63c55378c2de4a6aa9fc3ffb00c65236

You’ve repeatedly pretended to be deluded, blind and unable to see it, even though your own “Quote”, as revealed in the foregoing image, shows that you’ve seen it.

You’re disgrace to the day you were born and to all humanity. I spit on your empty skull. Tueh!

Cc: Abovebonny3, DenreleDave, ABULARdotCom, Balogunodua, babtoundey, gomojam, scholes0, LegendHero, macof, Ideadoctor, pazienza, Obalatule, Newton85, SaintBeehot, reallest

This one is still citing 2010 fabrications on the origin of the mythical Oduduwa when books from 1800s have always linked him to the middle east.

It's like Tao writing book full of lies today and forcing everyone to accept it even though there are hundreds of books written over 100 years saying the mythical Oduduwa was from the middle east.

SaintBeehot:
you've stated
Etrusen, I see no reason why even a blind man should ask such question, because it's stated on almost 70% of the post TAO11 has commented on.

The fact that Tao lies 100% doesn't make her lies true. Tao is not from Ife and the current Ooni traces Oduduwa (which was a mythical figure) and Ooni lineage to Egyptian God Osiris.

TAO11:
I have answered your simple question since page 3. In fact you quoted the answer and still asked for the answer.

I have attached the screenshot below only because you have repeatedly proven yourself to be blind Bini dullard. Or is this delusions

How any sane person would conclude that your question [“is Oduduwa an Ife man?”]

You are still lying all over nairaland and using insults to cover them up, the current Ooni of Ife traces the mythical figure Oduduwa and Ooni lineage to Egypt and the ancient Egyptian God Osiris. You are not from Ife, which indigenous Ife accounts says Oduduwa was Ife/Yoruba man.

TAO11:
That’s a dirty Bini lie. I actually answered you in full.

I did answer your question as you can see in the embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12801654_024e349b8a57436a849c421ea2955e89_jpeg_jpeg0ba370bee0618f6bd001a415aef98058


Furthermore, I also substantiated my answer with scholarly references to the indigenous Ife traditional accounts. Read from the link below:

https://www.nairaland.com/6291440/benin-remain-center-west-africa/4#96807302

Stop being such a little Edo liar!

Cheers!

cc: gomojam, talktrue1234, reallest, SaintBeehot, Balogunodua, Gratefulheart1

You are still lying all over nairaland, the current Ooni of Ife traces Oduduwa/Ooni lineage to Egypt and the ancient Egyptian God Osiris. You are not from Ife, which indigenous Ife accounts says Oduduwa was Ife/Yoruba man.

Etrusen:
simple question oooo

abeg answer na

so that your likers and sharers can still share it

She rushed into the thread thinking she was coming to pour sand on Benin history as usual,

Etrusen:
you have proven to be insecure and fearful by not answering the questions ask

where is oduduwa, from is that a bad question?

and others asked


I Wonder what a non Benin / Yoruba will be thinking after observing that weakness

please I want a non Benin and Yoruba reading this to tell me if my question is bad

Tao is only interested in throwing mould on the history of Benin. She shy away from questions examining Yoruba history because Yoruba history is full of myths and legends.

As simple as this your question, it's very difficult for the Yoruba to answer because there is no unified Yoruba answer to it. The answer you will often get depends on who you are speaking to at that particular moment. That is why she warned them to be careful with their replies.

Yoruba keep reversing their histories and modifying the lies in them.

TAO11:
To my Yoruba folks, I am actually saying the following with all sense of humility:

If you must engage these fearful and insecure Bini fraudsters at this point onward on this thread, please note that virtually all the silencing answers to their moronic contentions have already been provide on this same thread up to this page.

Do not be in a hurry, take your time to acquaint yourself with my comments so far (step by step from page 1) on this thread before you proceed to engage them if you must.

Notice what kind of reply and argument was provided to their dumb contentions. If this is mastered, you may never fall for their dishonest tactics and double standards.

Remember, they are very skilled with dishonesty and deceit. And it is understandable.

Cheers!

Cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

Good that you are warning all your Yoruba folks on how to respond to the Benins because you know they are illiterate dullard.

It's easy to throw mould on great Benin historical achievements and accomplishments when your tribe have nothing to showcase.

The last time in April/May this year we engaged in this kind of debate, you were so beaten, you went on a long sabbatical, only to come back recently to reply to my comment. I am sure you will go back into another long hibernation after this debate because numerous teaching moments awaits you.

What have we learned so far about Yoruba history.

1. I have cited Yoruba historical sources, S. Johnson, Law, etc. That confirmed Ooni as shrine keeper and no royal until 1930.

2. Oyo alleged greatness has been demystified by references provided of Alaafin of Oyo paying tributes to Benin, Alaafin of Oyo request of military assistance from the Oba of Benin to help put down his rebellious neighbours, the Fulani defeat of Oyo and annexation of Ilorin till date.

3. I made reference to the Awujale of Ijebu Ode rejection of Ife/Oduduwa lineage and rejection of Ooni of Ife supremacy.

4. I made reference to the Oba of Lagos claiming Oba of Benin as his historical father.

5. I provided Yoruba historical accounts and references of how Benin dominated eastern Yoruba.

6. Despite repeated requests, you haven't been able to give convincing reply to the origin of Oduduwa according to early Yoruba historical accounts. We are not interested in your later day revisionist fabrications.

7 Early Yoruba accounts of the origin of Oduduwa traces him to the middle east or from the sky and the Benin version have him from Benin.

So far, almost all parts of Yoruba land have been touched and the thread is only five pages.

This is why Benin/Ife relationship have problem.

A Reconsideration of the Ife-Benin Relationship1
A. F. C. Ryder
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1017/S0021853700005314
Published online by Cambridge University Press: 22 January 2009
Extract
The traditions now current among the Edo of Nigeria trace the origin of the Benin dynasty and the associated cire-perdue technique of brass-casting to Ife. Some of the information recorded by European visitors to Benin since the fifteenth century is not easily reconcilable with this tradition. [/b]Material evidence, especially that contained in the Benin bronzes, and the results of archaeological investigation have also raised difficulties. It is suggested that many conflicts in the evidence could be resolved by adopting a hypothesis which would ascribe a more northerly origin to the dynasty. [b]The Nupe-Igala area straddling the confluence of the Niger and Benue emerges as the key area in such a reconstruction of Benin dynastic affiliations. The Yoruba States would seem to be related to the same general complex, but the chronology and direction of dynastic movements still remain obscure, and the seemingly fixed points of reference become far less certain when placed in context.


According the prevalent myths of Ooni of Ife before his 1930 political elevation.

S. Johnson said in his book, The History of the Yorubas that the Ooni of Ife was a descendant of a mere shrine keeper, rather than real royalty (a myth which had actually been prevalent in other parts of Yorubaland even before Johnson wrote his book; the historian Robin Law cites other instances of this myth about the Ooni of Ife being some kind of shrine keeper or non-royalty existing in other parts of Yorubaland dating from before and after Johnson's book was published).

The Yorubas are here to deceive and capitalize on the ignorance and gullibility of majority of their readers. if they think they have history, they should come out and lets debate it,

Etrusen:
you nor fit talk where oduduwa come from tao ?


am still waiting

You will wait until chicken grows teeth. Tao doesn't like to discuss real history because she knows the Yoruba have nothing in comparison to Benin.

She has already chickened out and run away from my direct challenge to her? I even offered her $1000 to provide eyewitness written historical accounts of Benin/Ife relationship earlier than 1800s.

What she likes to do is sneak into a thread and start giving skewed citations that favoured her narrative.

The truth is, Yoruba history started proper by the likes of Ajayi Crowder and S. Johnson in the late 1800s. These early Yoruba historian's works were heavily in favour of Oyo, they tried to make Oyo greater than it was.

By 1930, after the British have unsuccessfully tried to change the Benin dynasty because of the 1897 massacre, they sort to bring all Western Nigeria Obas under their friend and more pliable ally, the Ooni of Ife. This was the reason for the first meeting of all Western Obas in 1937. Prior to 1937, there were no such meetings.

Ooni's political position of leadership had no historical backing, it was just political.

Nigeria got Independence in 1960 and the Western obas political creation collapsed, the Oba of Benin moved his people out of the West to form the mid-west in 1963. Superiority contest began between the Ooni and other Obas such as the Awujale of Ijebu and Alaafin of Oyo who saw themselves as more senior to the Ooni, the descendant of a shrine keeper in Ife according to the Yoruba historian, S. Johnson.

Since the 1930s, people have been trying to push the Ife supremacy through the Oduduwa myths.

Oduduwa was nothing but myth. In the myth, the Oba of Benin was supposed to be the most prominent heir to the Oduduwa dynasty through Oranmiyan, Alaafin of Oyo is supposed to be Oba of Benin junior brother and Ooni their chief priest, AKA shrine keeper.

Today, the Awujale still doesn't subscribe to being Oduduwa lineage or being from Ife, the Oba of Lagos struggles to see the Ooni as his senior, he claims the Oba of Benin as his father. The current Alaafin never accepted the former Ooni as his senior, I don't know if his position has changed with the current Ooni.

Historically, Nigeria really had two empires. The Benin empire, which lasted for about 500 years and the Sokoto caliphate which is controlling part of the north and Yoruba for over two hundred years now.

TAO11:
Or he should buy himself lunch if he can find eyewitness written historical accounts on his daddies such as:

Eweka 1, Uwakhwuahen, Ehenmihe, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifolun, Ewuare 1, Esegie, and many others.

If he fails to provide such eyewitness written historical accounts of this personages, then we must trail his warped logic in concluding that his daddies are no more than fictional cartoons — aka. Santa-Cluases.

Having said that archaeological evidence dating to centuries prior to the 1800s have been adduced to establish the classical Ife-Benin relationship which consistently portrays Benin kingdom as a subject to the overlordship of Ife.

See links below as already discussed in details on page two of this thread.

As expected. There is absolutely no basis to compare Benin historical achievements and accomplishments with Yoruba.

No more time to waste debating amala history with those without history.

Now that I have proved my point, I rest my case.

Obalatule:
Okotomeow yarns

Just like you claim Yoruba copied Oba title from you right?

Bini empty barrel noise makers

Go and call your teacher Tao here right now, you have nothing upstairs to talk about. Let her know that I am ready to offer her or anyone $1000 who is able to provide eyewitness written historical accounts of Benin/Ife relationship early than 1800s.