₦airaland Forum

lordnicklaus:
Please Scholar8200, malvisguy212 and others who know a lot about the Christian faith come in and contribute.............

I have recently discovered a problem which might pose a threat to the authenticity of the Gospels and the authority of the New Testament... I noticed a significant difference between Matthew's gospel and other gospels. In Matthew's gospel, the event of Matthew's calling to discipleship happens before the event of the healing of the demon possessed man but in other gospels, Matthew's calling takes place after the event of healing the demon possessed.... I want to know if anything has been said about it..... Thanks for contributing.........

Like you would have noticed in the Bible, chronological order plays little or no part. What matters is that there was a disciple called Levi/Matthew

Indeed, the Bible talks of those sacrificing to idols as actually sacrificing to devils; and one of the most prominent idol then, baal has a phallus shape hence one using those objects pictured is actually ...using a mini image of baal ostensibly for pleasure but inadvertently for a costly ritual!

This shows that:

There was actually a flood;

There was a time when the world was of one tongue!

Just as Genesis shows.

smoy:
the testimony is the same from the Old (given to Moses) to the New (for Jesus) and now to the Last of the testament given to the last prophet Muhammad SAW which is Al-Ikhlas
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; (1) Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; (2) He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; (3) And there is none like unto Him. (4)

Did the Quran describe itself as the final testament or you used that word to endear it to the People of the Book? If it did then kindly answer:

1. The OT and NT were off shoots of the promise made to Abraham and were prophesied ahead of time. How come the final testament is bereft of the faintest jot of reference by these books revealed? And your final testament makes no reference to the framework- God's promise to Abraham?

2. Since God is not the author of confusion, why was the New Covenant called Everlasting Covenant? especially if there was to be another?

3. Both testaments, Old and New, were ratified by blood. By what was the final testament ratified?

4. The last prophet as Israel/the Church knows them, was John the baptist whose coming was clearly (expressedly) prophesied and his birth as such was attested to by angel Gabriel; mother, father and all Israel testified of his ministry and were witnesses. Whence a final prophet in the books? And why the deafening silence by the books? And this prophet testified that Jesus Christ was greater than himself and would baptise with the Spirit, why does the final prophet equate Christ with the same man and those in his class? Who was right?

5. If Mohammed had come in the inter-testament period,perhaps some of my questions would be unnecessary. But for one who came about 5+ centuries after and reiterated similar laws after the pattern of the OT's laws (with some differences) after God had clearly said He was going to make a New Covenant, NOT ACCORDING TO THE OLD, and He had already perfected same through Christ, the claims of such an one suggests that God later reversed His own words (Impossible!). How do you explain or clarify this?

6. What correlation is there between your final testament and God's Promise to Abraham (being the basis of the OT and NT)

Kindly answer from 6 - 1.

.

Op, how would you define the word Testament?

Davik01:
U cant expect d demonic agents all over d world to keep calm without working hard to falsify d expoilt of GOD'S GENERALS. The Demon s a deciever. His agents are everywhere. Beware of their antics and deceptions. They work to distrupt any activity that will help you to grow in ur faith. Do not let ur desire to buy, download and read d books mentioned above grow cold bc of d demonic, fake stories above. Go ahead and do anything dt will increase ur FAITH in GOD. MAY GOD HELP US IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST. AMEN!

Exactly!!! A good example is what they tried to do with A.A. Allen's records, dumping all the testimonies, letters etc in the garbage can, after he died.

rexben:
[font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font]You said i don't have prove. You too can't prove that the James mentioned was James son of Alpheaus.

After the persecution that arose in Acts 8, many disciples fled Jerusalem but the 12 Apostles, including James son of Alphaeus, remained there! This were the same people that came to consider the matter raised in Acts 15(except James son of Zebedee who had been killed by Herod)

And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judæa and Samaria, except the apostles
Acts 8:1

That you lack proof of your claims and base everything on false guesses bespeaks insincerity. I dont expect your reply to this; rather this is to prevent folks getting deceived.

Lest we forget, Paul's scathing rebuke to the Galatian and Corinthian churches was INSPIRED!

It is as Biblical as John 3:16.

Empiree:
See, I understand what you trying to do. It doesn't bother me for a second. When it comes to who those disciples of Jesus are, since Quran does not mentioned their names, it becomes a matter of fiqh (jurisdiction). Fiqh does not from Allah. It is rather scholarly opinion which varies widely. Which means scholars may agree and disagree on a subject. It is clear that not many Muslim scholars support opinion of Imam Qurtubi because anytime I searched internet for "who are disciples of Jesus", it is always come under same Imam which means it is his only opinion. If his opinion/claim is valid, we would have seen many scholars of Islam saying the same thing. Here you quoted one Imam and asked me if I agree with him?. You so funny.

Okay.

First, Islamic scholars do not make it incumbent upon any Muslims to establish Peter, Philip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Matthew, Andrew, James, Jude, John and Simon the Zealot as disciples. You gleaned this from wikipedia which has no authority in Islam. Wikipedia is editable. Now, instead of arguing over whether those 12 people named above are truly the disciples, the only way for Muslims to confirm that is by looking in to their teachings which MUST conform with teachings of Jesus for them to be accepted by Muslims. And they also must not contradict each other.
[quote]following

[quote]For the sake of this thread, if we have to assume those people are truly the disciples, what gives you 100% assurance that their teachings arent corrupted like they did to Jesus?.

Corrupted by who and for what purpose? Polycarp and Ignatius (their writings and that of their proteges are on the net) were direct proteges of John the Apostle (being part of the 3;Peter, James and John) and their teaching agrees with what is in the Bible, what then! Besides, corrupted in deference to what? If the Quran was written in the first century then your claims might hold some water but NO!
Moreover, history has on record the activities of these Apostles after Jesus ascended, and how they and their followers were martyred. Were those corrupted too!

And if you insist they are the true disciples, then, they should have defined "begotten son" which you are unable to figure out.
[quote]They were sent to preach the Gospel and that they did!


[quote]Remember that Jesus as you called him today is not his real name. Therefore, he has no idea what Jesus is. Likewise, those 12 disciples mentioned above, I am 100% certain those are not their original names. If their names could be corrupted, why cant their teachings?.

Prove this. Besides, Jesus is the Greek form of Joshua, just as Elias is the Greek for Elijah, Osee is the Greek for Hosea so that is NOT an issue here. Claiming this (translation) is corruption is laughable and a purely self serving claim!

I came across a hadith which appears to mention just one of the names of the disciples that doesn't even appear in the list above. Be truthful one second, it is the English speaking Bible writers who gave those names above.

WOW prove it then! English speaking writers yet it appears in the Syrian, Aramian, Greek and Jewish Bibles

Here is the hadith i came about and it made no mentioned of any of the names on the list up there. Read below


Abu Ja‘far (‘a) said, “The foremost are four: the murdered son of Adam, the foremost of the community of Moses, who was a believer among the Pharaoh’s people, the foremost of the community of Jesus, who was Habib the carpenter, and the foremost of the community of Muhammad, who was ‘Ali ibn Abu Tàlib (‘a).” (Bihàr, 66, 156)



It says Habib the carpenter was one of the disciples. So you can see that it is not mandatory for Muslims to believe Peter, Philip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Matthew, Andrew, etc are disciples. That's from christian sources. To be fair, we can only accept their teachings that are in harmony with Islam and true teachings of Jesus as taught by Quran. Nothing more.

Jesus had 12 Apostles and many disciples! Among the disciples you had some priests, rich men and women etc But the prominent ones which your Quran calls helpers were the Apostles. They were the ones Jesus said would testify of Him.

The question here is simple: just prove from history that there were Christians or disciples or believers (at ANY time in History but not after Mohammed's death) that denied that Jesus was the Son of God and that He was crucified and rose again, they being the ones Allah commended.
Feel free to invite your ustadh who may be more knowledgeable.

Empiree:
Nothing much to be said here. You can see clearly yor highlighted part claiming Jesus is not Divine which is in conflict with yout creed. Anything else?. As for Nasara as we (Muslims) know it, it means "Christians". But disciples are Muslims.

Quran speaks:


he{Jesus} said, "Who are my supporters for [the cause of] Allah ?" The disciples said," We are supporters for Allah . We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]. Sura 3:49


And:


"And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger {Jesus}: they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to God as Muslims'". Sura 5:111


As for Nasara, it means Christians (5:82)


۞ لَتَجِدَنَّ أَشَدَّ النَّاسِ عَدَاوَةً لِّلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الْيَهُودَ وَالَّذِينَ أَشْرَكُوا ۖ وَلَتَجِدَنَّ أَقْرَبَهُم مَّوَدَّةً لِّلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّا [size=20pt]نَصَارَىٰ[/size] ۚ ذَ‌ٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ مِنْهُمْ قِسِّيسِينَ وَرُهْبَانًا وَأَنَّهُمْ لَا يَسْتَكْبِرُونَ

Highlighted is Na Sa Ra

Here is the translation of the meaning of the text.


Strongest among men in enmity to the believers(Muslims) wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers (Muslims) wilt thou find those who say, "We are [size=15pt]Christians[/size]": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.



Read The Transliteration


Latajidanna ashadda alnnasi AAadawatan lillatheena amanoo alyahooda waallatheena ashrakoo walatajidanna aqrabahum mawaddatan lillatheena amanoo allatheena qaloo inna [size=16pt]nasara[/size] thalika bianna minhum qisseeseena waruhbanan waannahum la yastakbiroona

You got it?. There are other verses that mentioned nasara in reference to christians.

You have correctly shown here that the Nasaras are Christians but the Nasaras believe in the Divinity of Jesus and His Being The Son of God so do you mean the Quran commended them in spite of this belief?

rexben:
14 "I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me - 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father - and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that do not come from this sheepfold. I must bring them too, and they will listen to my voice, so that there will be ONE flock and ONE shepherd.
John 10:14-16.
Can you see that,Jesus said one flock and one shepherd. He is not the chief shepherd but the only shepherd. One flock and one shepherd. Peter drifted from what Jesus said. One thing that is paramount with men is the desire to rule,some even said they are born to rule. Jesus said you are all brothers,if you want to be the greatest,you must SERVE!!!!!! My question,what did Jesus mean by one flock and one shepherd?

You accuse Peter, James, Paul etc In one post, Peter was obedient, James and Paul were not; in another Peter was disobedient etc
Repent of your conceitedness!

When Jesus said these, what did HE mean:

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Matthew 12:30

Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you
John 20:21

Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”

John 21:16

rexben:
The church in Jerusalem endorsed Paul. Come to look at it,the church was headed by James (the brother of Jesus),why was it not headed by Peter?
Peter kept the word of Jesus,that was why He did not head the church.

James did not head the Church! Keep to the facts!

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Matthew 23:10-12.
James headed the church because He never knew Jesus's teachings. While Jesus was alive he never believed Him.

I repeat James NEVER headed the Church! That is why Paul said in Galatians that he met with PETER to whom was committed ministry to the Circumcised, at Jerusalem.
Peter described himself as a shepherd and an elder like the others in 1Peter 5, would you correct him; this habit of ignorantly defaming Bible characters just because you want to hold to a belief is pathetic!
FYI, James in Acts 15 was James son of Alphaeus, one of the 12!!!

Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
Matthew 10:3

3 So Jesus' brothers advised him, "Leave here and go to Judea so your disciples may see your miracles that you are performing. 4 For no one who seeks to make a reputation for himself does anything in secret. If you are doing these things, show yourself to the world." 5 (For not even his own brothers believed in him.)
John 7:3-5.
I guess James became head of the church because He was Jesus brother,i guess he is Mary's second son.

Can we work with facts and not guesses that suits our rather false claims!

The church of Jerusalem [b]i guess were intimidated by Paul's ministry[/b]. The crowd he gathered,the healings etc. They have forgotten what Jesus said to soon.

This is a false accusation! Peter too gathered crowds and through him, many miracles were wrought! Your resort to accusations that you cannot prove is sad. You talk as though the Spirit went on vacation and all was about men.Even Paul was at Jerusalem partly for accountability purposes. Besides, was it not Peter etc that instructed Paul while at Jerusalem to go to the temple!

Pls pardon my ignorance, is the wearing of hijab at ALL times and in ALL places (as a sign of piety) a direct commandment in the Quran?

Medicis:
God bless you bro.....

Amen, thanks a lot!

Princewell2012:
Mmmmm... Are you in anyway implying that the manufacturer can break the rule of the engine even if such action may damage the engine? Just to prove that he is the one that make the engine, even at the detriment of the other road users? Hmmm, that's ok thank you.

The focus here is that the Manufacturer is not the subject of the manual; the engine is. However, the manual reveals that the Manufacturer is indeed an expert and that he seeks for the welfare of the engine. Interrupting or breaking the rules in the manual will be for no detrimental purpose other than that stated.

faruku104:
See The Final Year Exam Questions Set For Students Of Anambra State University

So these are the set of questions set for students from the Department of Political Science in Anambra State University, now known as Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu University.

How sure are we it is not Honourable Patrick Obahiagbon that did not set this for them? See grammar abeg...

http://www.olamzy.com/2016/04/kai-you-need-to-see-this-
final-year.html

Grammar? Which? yours or the lecturer's?

HardMirror:
You see say you lack common sense.
I said where is the name of the guy whose testimony you shared? Where is the hospital name? Abi na for house dem cut him leg?
You thinks you can just make claims online and every mumu shld believe?
You have not provided names yet you come with more false claims on behalf of ur god.

Well,I do not own the site that is why it was referenced, why not go there to make your requests?

Besides, under the ministry of W.J.Seymour it happened! see page 30 and 31 here:
http://www.dealpentecostal.co.uk/They%20told%20me%20their%20stories%20ebook.pdf

or order from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Azusa-Street-They-Their-Stories/dp/0977968804

rexben:
He asked Peter to feed His sheep. By the way,are you Peter or was Paul Peter. It is given to Peter specifically. Peter i guess was the eldest,it is the same as saying Peter look after your younger ones because they are brothers (disciples of Jesus).

Now let's hear what the primary audience of that charge had to say:

The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 [size=15pt]feed the flock of God which is among you[/size], taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

1 Peter 5:1-4
Now, do you know more than Peter? Or, were you there when Jesus spoke those words to him?

Jesus is the only Shepherd. A sheep can not become shepherd or can it ?

Ask Jesus, HE commissioned Peter, a sheep!

No,you can't. Jesus said,
But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have one Teacher and you are all brothers.
Matt 23:8.
The world cannot define your identity. The name Christians was given to the disciples of Paul. After Paul taught people in antioch for a year,they called them Christians.

Then who was Peter writing to:

16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Peter 4:16

HardMirror:
Lol
You know one thing I love? I love telling christains to Bleep off. I enjoy the shock on their face that a human is not afraid of their silllly god.

Okay.

Hahahaha !!!
Blessed hillybilly!!!
What mockery of intelligence is this?
What do you take me for? A 2 year old kid?

God healed a whole amputation and the so called testifier has no name?
He did not mention the name of the hospital that did the amputation.
Did not mention any doctor
No pictures
Nothings!
Just a cooked up story.

I can as well write a story on nairaland and say Jagojago retored me back after my head was cut off and people like you would believe!


[b]I have said it before christians don't use their brains at all!!!

And some kids are already happy and liking his post
These people are just so gullible. Didn't even stop for a minute to think what type of story with such gravity won't come with a single verifiable evidence [/b]

There have been a number of cases of women getting pregnant who before then had their wombs taken out. Since God can restore the internal organs why not the external?

As to the highlighted, there are many eminences and luminaries (one of which is a brain surgeon) who are christians so you are wrong.

HardMirror:
Where is the amputee that god heal?
Where?

Jesus Restored My Amputated Leg
by miracles on Nov.23, 2006, under Divine Intervention, Healing Miracles Stories
I was driving to the supermarket one after noon with my wife. It was the usual shopping day and we were on our way to the supermarket. Neither my wife nor I saw the truck ahead of us and we plowed straight into it.
When I awoke I was in the hospital with my wife by my side. When the doctors came to speak to me they said I had been in a coma for 3 months and that they had to amputate a leg and that I had to stay in hospital for another week for examination.
After that week when I arrived home I went straight to bed to get some rest as it wasn’t very easy to get to sleep in the hospital as it was too noisy there.
Although I was still shocked that I had lost a leg, I was glad I was still alive. A strange thing happened a few days after. I witnessed Jesus Christ at the foot of my bed one morning. I wasn’t scared of him, rather I was more in shock at seeing such a miracle in my home. He approached the side of my bed and told me that I shall walk again.
I went to sleep thinking of what Jesus had said. I awoke later on that day and swung my self to the side of the bed to get into my wheel chair but to my disbelief I had my leg back, exactly as it was before the accident. I tried to stand, but I was still a little shaky from the discovery and didn’t know if I had the strength to stand. So rested thinking of what Jesus had said to me.
When I found the strength to walk down the stairs I walked into my front room and spotted my wife watching the TV. I called her, and she spun around. Then I saw the shocked look on her face. She jumped up and asked me how, but I didn’t have an answer for her.
I told her that Jesus had visited me before the healing and that this truly was a miracle.
A few days later while I was in my front room Jesus visited again and told me that a miracle has been performed and to spread the wonder.
More Miracle Stories

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2 Comments :amputated leg healed, Divine Intervention, Jesus healed my amputation more...

http://miraclestories.com/tag/jesus-healed-my-amputation/

HardMirror:
God has never healed any amputee. Bible is nothing but stories

Prove that factually.

lexiconkabir:
"Now Hagar stands for[b] Mount Sinai in Arabia[/b] and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. (From the NIV Bible, Galatians 4:25)"

Arabia at the time of Paul referred to the Peninsula,(since Saudi was founded in the 20th century) something more like a subcontinent comprising nations:

Arabian Peninsula, simplified Arabia[1] (Arabic: الجزيرة العربية‎ al-jazīra al-ʿarabiyya, « Arabian island ») is a peninsula of Western Asia situated north-east of Africa on the Arabian plate. From a geological perspective, it is considered a subcontinent of Asia
It is the largest peninsula in the world, at 3,237,500 km2 (1,250,000 sq mi). The Arabian Peninsula consists of the countries Yemen, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates as well as parts of southern Iraq and Jordan.
Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Islamic_Arabia#/media/File:NabateensRoutes.png

lexiconkabir:
its actually myriad

and myriad means 10,000

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ten+thousand

The contextual usage was stated in the lexicon I quoted :
When Myriad refers to 10,000 was in Acts 19;19 only!
Then instead of myriasin, this was used:

myriadas
μυριάδας

Meaning 10,000!

But myriasin refers to an indefinite number.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3461: μυριάς

μυριάς, μυριαδος, ἡ (μυρίος) (from Herodotus down), the Sept. for רְבָבָה and רִבּו;
a. ten thousand: Acts 19:19 (on which passage see ἀργύριον, 3 at the end).

b. plural with the genitive equivalent to an innumerable multitude, an unlimited number ((like our myriads), the Latinsexcenti, German Tausend): Luke 12:1; Acts 21:20; Revelation 5:11 (not Rec.st); (here L T δισμυριάδες, which see); used simply, of innumerable hosts of angels: Hebrews 12:22 (here G L Tr put a comma after μυριάσιν); Jude 1:14; Deuteronomy 33:2; Daniel 7:10.

The adjoining passages show which was meant for what context.

lexiconkabir:
Ten thousand in greek δέκα χιλιάδες

ten thousands in greek δέκα χιλιάδες

Any difference?

Besides, pls there is NO part of the Bible that likens Jesus to Mount Seir! That mountain was given to the Edomites Deut 2:22. Claiming that refers to Christ leaves much to be desired!

Princewell2012:
Hmmm, i think even the title of this thread is very misleading,
in the first place.
I have been following it right from the beginning.

Good morning sir.

How can God ask us to do what he cannot do, mmmmm.

Yet the bible made us to understand that God is Holy and righteous,

Does emekablogs knows the meaning of righteousness

Manufacturer wrote in manual: Engine to be serviced every 3 months for optimum performance. Engine (thanks to Artificial Intelligence ) asks manufacturer/new owner," how can I be sure you are fit to operate me seeing you are not serviced every 3 months?"

lexiconkabir:
Ten thousand in greek δέκα χιλιάδες

ten thousands in greek δέκα χιλιάδες

Any difference?

Let's see the original here:
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/jude/1-14.htm

The word used there was
myriasin
μυριάσιν

Meaning:
plural with the genitive equivalent to an innumerable multitude, an unlimited number ((like our myriads), the Latinsexcenti, German Tausend): Luke 12:1; Acts 21:20; Revelation 5:11 (not Rec.st); (here L T δισμυριάδες, which see); used simply, of innumerable hosts of angels: Hebrews 12:22 (here G L Tr put a comma after μυριάσιν); Jude 1:14; Deuteronomy 33:2; Daniel 7:10.
Thayer's Lexicon

lexiconkabir:
I hope you know that the book of jude wasnt originally in English, rather it was hebrew

This ten thousands in hebrews עשרת אלפים

This is ten thousands in hebrews עשרת אלפים,

please is there any difference? No, so i can safely be said that this is one of the deceptions of bible translators,

Deception? Jude was written in Greek.

lexiconkabir:
must it be literal?

Compare with other Bible prophecies that point to men and see that it is wrong to claim that for a man. In fact, the next similitude used for man is animals Daniel 7:1-16 (Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander etc), not Divinity!

lexiconkabir:
Two questions for all the NL Christians:

1- If the prophecies above from the Bible were not referring to our beloved Prophet peace be upon him and his army, then who else are they referring to?

2- Would you please bring me one Christian event that took place in the Holy City of Paran (Makkah), or any city or event in the Bible that involved 10,000 Christian saints?

The Biblical number 10,000, and the Prophecy of the 10,000 men of GOD Almighty executing the Judgement of GOD in an ungodly place is only linked to Prophet Muhammad and Islam.

Embrace Islam and you will be saved!

peace be onto you

Besides, the two passage quoted said The Lord hence it refers not to a man. Furthermore, the one in Deuteronomy speaks of God giving a law which was fulfilled in Exodus 19,20 hence it is not the same as that spoken by Enoch.

The prophecies of the coming of Jesus Christ in the OT uses various terms, Son, Lord, Servant, Prophet etc because He Who was to come was Divine but will put on mortality when He comes. The prophecy concerning Cyrus, Josiah, etc leaves none in doubt that it was a man coming. Hence if you want to use the Bible to predict Muhammed, then the language, being a man like the others mentioned, would have been similar, i.e. sans the use of the word Lord!

lexiconkabir:
The credit of this thread goes to my brother in islam Osama AbdAllah, his article on this subject made this thread a possibility, may Allah be pleased with him him, Amin.

I am specially inviting scholar8200, analice107, parisbookaddict, true2god, and other NL christians, maybe they will see the light in islam through this thread,

most christians here on Nairaland try to discredit the prophethood of Muhammad pbuh by saying, "No prophesy on the coming of Muhammad pbuh in the bible",

Alright, let us look at the following Verse from the King James Version Bible: "And Enoch also, the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with [size=14pt]ten thousands[/size] of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14-15)"

Referring to the Second Coming of Christ being the purpose of the writer and the context of the prophecy.

Let us also look at the following Verse: "And he said, The LORD came from Si'-nai, and rose up from Se'-ir unto them; he shined forth from mount Pa'-ran [Mecca in Arabic], and he came with ten thousands of [size=14pt]saints[/size]: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. (The King James Version Bible, Deuteronomy 33:2)"

Moses describing what transpired at Sinai when he went to collect the law for 40 days in Exodus 19:16-25 hence it was a historic record not a prophecy!

According to Islam's history, when Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and his followers faced hostility from the people of Mecca (Paran), they had to leave the city. They fled to the City of "Yathrib" which was called later "Madina" where Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him continued to spread Islam to all of the Arabs and then later to the countries near by.

I can see some people dilating their eyes and thinking, how can paran be makkah, okay let us look at the following Verses:

"Then God opened her [Hagar] eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink. God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt. At that time Abimelech and Phicol the commander of his forces said to Abraham, "God is with you in everything you do. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 21:19-22)"

Hagar was an Arab.

No, she was an Egyptian! Genesis 16:1. I dont expect this oversight since you believe Ishmael was the patriarch of the Arab nation.

Abraham peace be upon him had Ishmael from her, who was 13 years older than Issac. After Sarah, Abraham's wife gave birth to Issac, Abraham decided to let Hagar and her son Ishmael go. He sent to the desert of Arabia in the region of Paran.



Then GOD Almighty promised Ishmael that from him, He will increase his numbers and make from him a great nation, the Arab nation; "And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. (Genesis 17:20)"

These are their generations: The firstborn of Ishmael, Nebaioth; then Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam, 30 Mishma, and Dumah, Massa, Hadad, and Tema, 31 Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah. These are the sons of Ishmael.

1 Chronicles 1:29-31

God did not specify which of the 12 rulers from Ishmael hence we cannot fill in the gaps;

The Bible clearly says that Paran is south of Sinai in Egypt; "He said: 'The LORD came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran. He came with myriads of holy ones from the south, from his mountain slopes.' (Deuteronomy 33:2)"

Kedar came from Ishmael; "These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, and Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah: These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations. Kedar and Ancient Arabs (Genesis 25:13)" The Arabian desert region was named after Kedar. See the second map below,

That highlighted part is not in the Bible!

https://www.answering-christianity.com/paran1.gif

https://www.answering-christianity.com/map_paran.gif


he Ishmaelites were Arabs and not Egyptians. They came from the Arabian desert; "As they sat down to eat their meal, they looked up and saw a caravan of Ishmaelites coming from Gilead. Their camels were loaded with spices, balm and myrrh, and they were on their way to take them down to Egypt. (Genesis 37:25)"

"take them down to Egypt" means taking them to the land of Egypt. It doesn't mean taking them toward the south direction. When for instance you say "my house is right down the street", it doesn't mean the house is south of the street. The house could be on the north side. The sentence means that the house is on the street, or will be found if the person walks in the path that you lead him to.

The point however in the above Verse is that the Ishmaelites were not from Egypt. They came from another land. They had loaded camels and they were heading to Egypt. Arabs used to rely heavily on camels for traveling. And as we've seen from the above Verses regarding Ishmael and his Mother (Hagar) living in the desert of Paran in the South, this clearly proves to us that the desert of Paran is located in Arabia and not in Egypt, since the Ishmaelites are not Egyptians.

Recent archeological discoveries along with Paul's own words in Galatians 4:25 clearly suggest that Mount Sinai is located in Saudi Arabia. This means that Paran being south of Mount Sinai clearly means that it is the Holy City of Mecca as I showed above:

The Bible clearly says that Paran is south of Sinai in Egypt; "He said: 'The LORD came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran. He came with myriads of holy ones from the south, from his mountain slopes.' (Deuteronomy 33:2)"

This verse is elaborated on further above. Now, let us first look at Galatians 4:25, then the archeological evidence:

"Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. (From the NIV Bible, Galatians 4:25)"

This is an excerpt from an article of christian archaeologists:



So as we can see paran is indeed makkah of today,

To be continued, Insha Allah

My findings show that Paran is a transjordan desert while Mt Paran is found in Jordan:
http://www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-exodus-route-wilderness-of-paran.htm