Scholar8200's Posts

Nairaland Forum › Scholar8200's Profile › Scholar8200's Posts

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 (of 118 pages)

Christianity Etc › Re: These Old And The New Testament Of A Thing Is Really Causing Confusion. by Scholar8200(m): 12:12pm On Oct 20, 2015

Princewell2012:
you didnt get me, were those unclean animals accepted for sacrifices to God?

Now were they clean now?

What are there health benefit?

were they not dangerous to our health?

Peter revelation of unclean animals is a different thing entirely. he is referring to the gentiles.

Or are you suggesting that those unclean animals are now clean today? is that the interpretation of that vision

They were ceremonially unclean then, not intrinsically unclean! Else why on earth will God send a Raven to feed Elijah? and that in the OT? Their being ceremonially unclean was not primarily for the sake of their health benefits. They were allowed to eat locusts too but do you realize these insects covered with chitin store urea crystals which if accumulated in the human body may cause kidney problem?

3 Likes 2 Shares

Christianity Etc › Re: These Old And The New Testament Of A Thing Is Really Causing Confusion. by Scholar8200(m): 9:50am On Oct 20, 2015

Princewell2012:
Lev;11....really? you mean they are not to be
eaten by the Israelites but they are OK for God?

So why were they not allowed to sacrificed them for God?

Do you understand what Paul meant when he spoke about the shadows, types and the Substance? Why were the same animals and items used as a sign in a vision to Peter in Acts 10?

Christianity Etc › Re: Wait O: How Come The Word Satan Is Rarely Ever Mentioned In The Old Testament? by Scholar8200(m): 9:34am On Oct 17, 2015

Anas09:
Bible study 101.
What one can learn in this NL mostly is abscent in some Churches. Thanks Brother Scholar and Sister An2elect2.
Pls keep on the good work. Those who are confused and thirsty will receive direction and drink through you. Amen.
Godbless.

All Glory to God; God bless you too.

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 9:33pm On Oct 15, 2015

vooks:
Digression is your forte.
Please start a thread on Israel and the church and I wil kindly schol you through. The ONLY reason for this needless dithering and digression is because your theories can't stand scrutiny, so you keep throwing me off your trail

Think through this in your devotion
EVERY right or privilege a Jew has/had came through Abraham, and is appropriated by the Gentile through faith

Galatians 3:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

There are no sacred cows,nor sacred/special races. Faith in Christ is the currency of heaven. Abraham was justified by faith.

Ephesians 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

God through Christ abolished the ONLY thin that separated Jews from Gentiles; the Law, making the Jew and the Gentile ONE

And that ONE man is the NEW creature in Christ or the Church which is the Kingdom of Priests

1 Peter 2:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Revelation 1:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

BTW,you are begining to sound like a dispensationalist Shdemidemi who chickene out of a public debate on the subject

okay

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 4:57pm On Oct 15, 2015

vooks:
There is neither Jew nor Gentile my friend, Christ is the ONLY way to the Father.
1.If a Gentile turned to Judaism, would they get eternal life?
2. Do Jews now have eternal life?

Alright what is the message of Romans 11? Why the emphasis by Paul on the fulness of the Gentiles in that chapter? The Church consists of both Jews and Gentiles in Christ however Romans 11 agrees to the prophecies in the OT on the subject of God's plan and programme for the Israelites (after the flesh). Besides the 70 weeks of Daniel was concerning God's programme with Israel (Daniel 9:24a) however, the period of the Gentiles (described by Paul as a mystery in Ephesians 3) was not included but is the break between the 69th and 70th week.

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 4:54pm On Oct 15, 2015

vooks:
You have your eschatology in reverse my brother.
You imagine a special role of Israel post Calvary, you invent its aspects, and then you use your invention to trash scriptures BIG. You demand subscription to your theories in order to disagree with scriptures. All this is a not so clever digression from the subject at hand.

A simpler assignment
If a heathen turned to Judaism now, would they earn eternal life?

So could you throw more light on Romans 11?
A heathen is not an Israelite after the flesh bro. Nobody here is advocating judaism!!! Why not take a tour through Romans11 etc?

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 10:35am On Oct 15, 2015*

EMILO2STAY:
you are so wrong, u apply the 70 week prophesy of daniel wrongly which is a thoery invented by a catholic jesuit. The 70 week prophesy is talking about the birth and death of christ and not the rapture . The deliverer as already come more than 2000 yrs ago christ is not coming to Save a litral nation of israel which was only founded in 1948 by america. Pls do ur research properly. Google franscisco ribera and john nelson derby.

Why not establish your position from the Scriptures? we are all here to learn.
The 70 weeks mentioned the Messiah and spoke only of the fact that He would be killed but not for Himself (Isaiah 53:6 explains this). The prophecy ended with the 70th week talking about the activities of the other prince and his abominations that would be ultimately fulfilled during the Tribulation Daniel 9:25-27. Are you saying that Daniel 9 was added by a catholic priest? The Deliverer would come again else if He wont, which Israel /Jacob was Paul speaking of? Now dont tell me it is the Church except if you will help Paul edit Romans 11:1,2! And since the Deliverer had come why did Paul refer to it as something that will happen after the time of the Gentiles?

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 10:02am On Oct 15, 2015

vooks:
1 Thessalonians 5 King James Version (KJV)
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

I asked WHAT day of the Lord is in this verse verse what you think it is not sir

Paul in chapter 4 speaks of rapture and the DESCENDING of the Lord. He then quickly reminds them NOBODY knows of the time.

Think through this; is it the time Nigeria attained Independence or the events he just described?

Question is,
Was there a global church resurrection an rapture before it?

If you for a second entertain multiple resurrection, you dig yourself into the theological absurdity. For instance;

Resurrection of the dead happens AT Christ coming yet you place resurrection 1000 years before His COMING

1 Corinthians 15:20-23 King James Version (KJV)
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming

Paul is VERY CLEAR on resurrection happening at the coming of Jesus AGAIN!

1 Thessalonians 4:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The reason is simple; ALL recorded resurrections were unto death and they all died again. Jesus is the firstborn from among the dead because his mortality was clothed in immortality. He underwent the transformation we look forward to at His coming

As explained before,two resurrections are a figment of your imagination because resurrection happens AT the coming of Christ and n before

Could you please POINT out the rapture of the saints in Revelation if this is not it?
Would John omit capturing such a glorious event?

The perspective and purpose of the Great tribulation and other eschatological events and the related OT prophecies about them would be clearly understood if you consider the role of Israel therein-they rejected the Messiah(Christ) and will only be ready to receive Him, their eyes being opened, after the 'exploits' of the Antichrist else what exactly would be the purpose of the Great tribulation? Why not execute judgement immediately?:

Romans 11:1,2b,11,12,15,25
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew
[/b]11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12[b] Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
[/b]25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; [b]that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

As regards the bolded,
When will the time of the Gentiles come to an end (the commencement of the 70th week in Daniel's prophecy)
When will the Deliverer come to Zion to turn away ungodliness from Jacob? (after the time of Jacob's trouble{great tribulation} at the end of the 70th week)
Where will the Deliverer deliver Jacob, in the air? ( NO, on Earth).
After Delivering Jacob, what next? (He shall rule over all the Earth having descended with His armies, the saints Zechariah 14:5b,9)
Where would those armies of saints be coming from? (Heaven!)

Assignment
Suppose the church would be on Earth when the Deliverer comes to turn ungodliness from Jacob (Israel), what will be the purpose of transforming them (the Church), taking them to the air, and immediately descending to Earth with them?

Christianity Etc › Re: Wait O: How Come The Word Satan Is Rarely Ever Mentioned In The Old Testament? by Scholar8200(m): 8:07am On Oct 15, 2015*

An2elect2:
Am sorry but some of your points are foreign...more like 'what you think' and not what they are.

I am still learning.In any case I will accept any contrary explanation as long as it agrees with the Scriptures and their contexts and peculiarities and/or realities of the Epoch concerned.

You said,
"As at the time of the OT, he was not the adversary (meaning of satan); he was the usurper wielding the dominion that was Adam's.

Firstly, am surprised to read that the 'father of lies from the beginning' was not an adversary of man until the new testament! I believe you were referring to the two dispensations: old and new?

The bible revealed that Satan in the form of serpent deceived man into disobedience in his first home. Do tell, is that not the highest form of opposition and evil to mankind from the devil?
The tempting of Adam was one of the events that happened in the beginning before the Fall. Romans 6:16 tells us you are the servant of he whose voice you obey. Before the fall of man, the devil could only go as far as tempting or inducing Adam/man. There was no basis for his being an adversary/accuser.

Secondly, which dominion is he wielding that belonged to Adam? Albeit Satan wanted to benefit from the fall, it was his greatest undoing because no dominion power was given except that he was cursed
GENESIS 3:14 So the LORD God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all cattle, and more than every beast of the field; on your belly
you shall go, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life. 15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He shall
bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel." ( NKJV)
He was cursed but the Romans 6:16 principle still applies here: you are the slave of the one you obey. It was a case of Adam selling his dominion right for a taste of the forbidden fruit. Afterwards, he fell from the Glory and lost it hence satan could tell Jesus in Luke 4:6 that all was delivered into his hands and Jesus did not
refute him (that was before the cross).

And again you said something i hear all the time but i never see it in the bible: God's perfect will and His permissive will that comes with dire consequences.
You have bible references and how do you know which is the perfect and which is permissive? Curiously waiting for your answer

Indeed, the use of the adjectives perfect and permissive are not expressedly stated in scripture however they are used in describing situations where people insist on the opposite of that which God has revealed as His desire for them(knowing in His Omniscience that which is for their ultimate good), or requesting insistently for that which God would give in His time and insisting on receiving it at our time, or requesting insistently for the wrong reasons,that which God would provide.
A good example is in 1 Samuel 8 where Israel insisted for a king inspite of God's displeasure seeing it was not His time. But that which is called permissive will would not come sans enough warnings or a clear perception of Divine displeasure. Another example is Balaam- God had told him not to go with the emissaries of Balak because the people were blessed however, his covetousness made him ask God again and HE seeing the lust in his heart allowed him but an Angel with a drawn sword met him on the way...

2 Likes 1 Share

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 8:57pm On Oct 14, 2015

vooks:
In 1Thes and 2Thes context, what is the day of the Lord?

1 Thess 4 does not describe the rapture as the Day of the Lord.

Revelation 20:4-6 (KJV)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
1. There is a resurrection in these verses called FIRST RESURRECTION. Is it your 4:1 resurrection or something different?

And it specifies those involved in verse 4, as those martyred in the Tribulation for Christ distinct from the dead in Christ that arose at Rapture and were called the Bride. The ordination oof first and second here is limited to that advent, else what do we say to the resurrection of OT saints after Christ's resurrection in Matthew 27:52,53?

2. The resurrection of chapter 20 is of or at least includes those who never received the mark which means they must have been exposed to but resisted the mark. Does your 4:1 rapture/resurrection happen before/after the mark/beast?

those were Tribulation saints, distinct from the Bride mentioned in Revelations 19:7-9

3. The chapter 20 resurrection happens AFTER the beast has been destroyed and cast into the lake of fire towards the end of chapter 19. 2 Thessalonians tells us of a man of sin who will be destroyed at the coming of Jesus. Is it safe to conclude that resurrection happens AFTER the destruction of the beast which happens at the COMING of Jesus?

Again, verse 4 tells us those that lived after that resurrection.

4. Chapter 20 resurrection is called FIRST RESURRECTION. Is it remotely possible that there was a global resurrection before it, that is supposing for some reason this is not the rapture?

Yes! After the Tribulation, two resurrections will take place: first is for the saints who did not take the mark and were washed in the blood; the second is for the dead.

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 8:37pm On Oct 14, 2015

vooks:
There is neither Jew nor Gentile sir in Christ. They will perish in their sin

Here, once again, you contradict whole portions of Scripture! What? Pls read up Paul's inspired expose in Romans 11 and dont mix up Israel and the church in that passage.
Besides, what purpose serves Daniel 9 with respect to Israel?

Christianity Etc › Re: Wait O: How Come The Word Satan Is Rarely Ever Mentioned In The Old Testament? by Scholar8200(m): 8:32pm On Oct 14, 2015

Samunique:
Thumbs up for you sir !

May God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ continue to preserve and use u to enlighten His people and increase your knowledge in Him to continue the good works you and some other folks are doing on this forum .

Continue the good works, God is with u and we also!!!

Amen! May God preserve and bless you too.

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 6:42pm On Oct 14, 2015

vooks:
Let us FIRST understand Paul in 1 Thessalonians

1. The dead precede the living in resurrection and they shall meet him in the air
2. Christ shall DESCEND. When he ascended, he left the earth, when he descended, he came to earth. Isn't it obvious? Please do a word study on DESCEND
3. In chapter 5, the event just described is called the DAY OF THE LORD

moving on to 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8
1. The COMING of the Lord is clearly called the DAY OF THE LORD
2. Before the DAY OF THE LORD/COMING, some things/events must take place; unveiling of man of sin
3. Man of sin is destroyed at Jesus' COMING

Conclusion
The DAY OF THE LORD is the COMING of Jesus at which the rapture/resurrection happens and it happens AFTER the man of sin is revealed

Based on your conclusion would you, of thy clemency, answer these:
1. What would be the condition of Israel at this time? Since they did not accept the Messiah, will they go with the rapture? If no, what will happen to them?

Let's start with this, others will come after we are done with this. This is not a digression, we cant talk of the Rapture and Christ's coming without referring to surrounding events.

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 6:37pm On Oct 14, 2015

Let's go through the questions again.
Jesus you agree returns and destroys man of sin.
Why is this event 1000 years after resurrection relevant to Thessalonian resurrection?

Interestingly, 2 Thessalonians says nothing about resurrection, only 1Thessalonians says the dead in Christ shall rise. The latter speaks of meeting the Lord in the air while the former speaks of an event that will happen on the Earth.

Now if there be no Millenial reign (but there is) would you say:
That Battle of Armageddon=Battle of Gog and Magog?

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 6:23pm On Oct 14, 2015

vooks:
No sir, what you did is pretend it doesn't exist or say anything because of others.

It's okay.

Your first point would have been to interrogate WHAT it APPEARS to say. On the surface. Then get deeper, verbs,tenses, Greek and all. One can't attempt to arrive at a truth when they have set minds and theories. Lay aside biases and opinion and suffer scriptures to minister to you. Don't compete with Holy Spirit at Inspiration

Rather than go into Greek, why not consider what other passages teach on the events being considered?

Now if we were to stick to Thessalonians alone, this is what you get:
1. Jesus descends from Heaven and the saints, dead or alive, meet Him in the air;
2. After they meet Him in the air, they all descend immediately down to the Earth to destroy the man of sin;
3. Afterwards, Jesus establishes His Earthly kingdom and that will be all.

You know this is not all.(Except we will edit and/or dispense with whole portions in the OT and NT!)

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 6:15pm On Oct 14, 2015

vooks:
You have trashed Pauline eschatology

What is Paul telling you regarding the COMING of Jesus?

Bro, permit me to refer you to my initial answer to this. Pauline eschatology (1 Thessalonians 4) was that we will be changed, the believers that were dead will be raised incorruptible and we all will meet the Lord in the air.

Does this contradict what he wrote in 2 Thessalonians? No. It will only seem so if we ignore other parallel passages like you want us to do. Like I said, the Spirit's Inspiration of scripture has always been such that all believers of all ages and epoch will find it applicable to them(whether they be the Bride or the Tribulation Saints).

Besides, if the Rapture+Armageddon was what Paul was referring to in 2 Thessalonians, then what will be the use of the Battle of Gog and Magog where fire falls from Heaven to destroy the enemies? Which enemies will that be?

Afterall the battle alluded to in 2Thessalonians 1 should have destroyed them all.

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 6:07pm On Oct 14, 2015

vooks:
We are discussing Thessalonians and you dismiss it without a single look and then take me in circles.

Rather what I did was to analyse it in the light of other parallel references in the Bible.

We can't consider ALL the Bible says when we are busy trashing what it says at a particular point!

But we have to in establishing Truth just like you said!

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 5:58pm On Oct 14, 2015

vooks:
We will move to Genesis, and even apocrypha.
How one arrives at truth is to determine what EACH and EVERY scripture means. We can then pick identical subjects and develop a doctrine from ALL these. But if we steadfastly resist a single scripture because it collapses our house of cards, we are blatantly dishonest.

Since you know the highlighted, do it with respect to contexts and reference.

I wonder how you arrived at that accusation though. Perhaps you can help draw my attention to it.

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 5:56pm On Oct 14, 2015

vooks:
You are throwing UNRELATED portions of scriptures for once. You are also assuming the nature and extent of tribulation such as it lasts 3.5 years and so forth

But why do you say they are unrelated? The prophecies concerning Christ first and second advent are found in the Law, the Psalms and the Prophets!
Daniel 9:27 speaks of what the prince (Daniel 9:26 speaks of a prince that shall come after the Messiah) would do for 7 years and that in the midst of the period (after 3.5 years) he will commence his abominations.

The ONLY reason you won't suffer Paul to speak to you is because he smashes your theories to smithereens. Peter speak of some who twist Paul to their own damnation.

Paul? But did I not mention 1 Thessalonians 4:17? and was he not the Inspired writer of 1 Corinthians 15? Did Paul not write of the Judgement seat of Christ as a place where all believers (not the dead in Revelations 20) will appear before the Lord to receive a reward for their works?
Should I also opine that you appear to avoid the other places quoted because they contradict what you hold?

When studying scriptures the FIRST question one asks is what the scripture is saying. You can't do this because you have determined it beforehand to be saying something else than it is saying

That is why there is the need to consider all that the Bible says about a particular subject before forming an opinion; Jesus did the same thing after He arose Luke 24:27,44

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 5:39pm On Oct 14, 2015

vooks:
We will dwell on as many scriptures as you want sir. The danger of hopping all over without determining what any scripture means ministers Christianity that is miles wide and only milimeters deep. Such shallow faith is so malleable, it can fit ANYTHING you want it and is the furthest thing from objectivity.

Rather, it ensures that we consider all that the Bible says about a subject and not just a passage that suits us! That is real objectivity!!!
I wonder how the highlighted applies to the matter at hand?

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 5:36pm On Oct 14, 2015

vooks:
The problem with your approach is you can't stick to a single scripture long enough without throwing in biases and assumptions from elsewhere.

Kindly specify examples of the highlighted and the extra-scriptural sources (elsewhere) I have quoted from

Let's stick to Thessalonians.

Sticking to only one portion is the reason why we have some damnable heresies today and unfortunately the proteges of such teachings deliberately close their eyes to other passages that contradict the erroneous conclusions drawn from a single passage divorced from the Big Picture!

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 5:31pm On Oct 14, 2015

vooks:
Let's try some method. Stick to one verse till we have exhausted it.

The danger inherent in this approach is that we may arrive at conclusions that contradict the other passages.

The verse clearly talks of COMING. Are you correcting Paul?

No.

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 4:12pm On Oct 14, 2015

vooks:
In Thessalonians God brings with Jesus the dead
1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV)
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

How many resurrections do we have?
Indicate them from Revelation

Thanks.
Am driving my point

I am eager to learn too but most importantly may God grant us grace to see Him at the end.

That passage you quoted is talking about the rapture and the resurrection of the dead saints and transformation of the living ones and both meet the Lord in the air.
This Raptured Bride of the Lamb will descend with Him at His Coming to establish the Millenial reign.

At that time, those Tribulation saints that were martyred by the antichrist will be resurrected see Revelations 20:4

After the battle of Gog and Magog at the end of the Millenial reign, then the resurrection of the damned see Revelations 20: 13,12

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 3:54pm On Oct 14, 2015*

vooks:
[b]2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 King James Version (KJV)

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:[/b]

Scholar8200,Gombs,Joagbaje

Please note the following;

1. Verse 1. THE COMING OF OUR LORD, AND OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM.
it is clear ONE event is described

2. Verse 3 It comes AFTER the man of sin has been revealed ( forget whatever that means for now)

3. Verse 8 Man of sin is destroyed at the coming of Jesus.

Questions for you
1. Is the coming of verse 1 and 8 the same?
2. Is this coming associated with rapture?
3. Why would the coming and rapture/gathering be related with each other by Paul?

I perceive that there are things Inspired in the NT that are so such that it will comfort those described in Revelations as Tribulation saints just as there are such in the OT.

(Vs 4 talks of the antichrist sitting in the Temple- this indicates a reference to the occurrence after the rapture and the commencement of the 70th week programme of God with Israel. You will agree with me that for the Gentile believers, we dont have Temples but houses/buildings where the church meets and that could be anywhere.

The 3.5 years of peace will be achieved by a treaty with Israel meaning at that time, there would be much focus on Israel and her peculiarities.
Compare the passage you quoted especially 2 Thess 1:6,7 with Revelations 13:10 and see the similarities.

Moreover 1 Thess 4:17 speaks of meeting the Lord in the AIR, while 2 Thess describes an event that will take place on Earth.

2 Thessalonians describes the setting of the Battle of Armagedon where Christ descends with the saints and the Antichrist is destroyed. The battle of Gog and Magog would see fire fallen from Heaven and destroying the armies of the dragon and the final judgement of the dragon.
Besides, we should be curious that Revelations specifies / distinguishes TRIBULATION saints from the Bride of Christ!
The latter would be in Heaven while the tribulation lasts while some of the former would arrive Heaven as a result of being killed during the Tribulation.
Besides in his prophecy of the coming of Christ to establish His Millenial reign, Zechariah shows clearly that He will descend WITH His saints (the earlier raptured Bride affirmed in Revelations 19:7,8,14)
''...and the LORD my God shall come, and ALL THE SAINTS WITH THEE...'' Zechariah 14:5b
Moreover, Isaiah proves that during the millenial reign, the Elect (Israel) will still experience death which wont happen to the Raptured saints because already they have been changed!
''... For the CHILD SHALL DIE an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed..'' Isaiah 65:20 this is in perfect keeping with the Truth in Revelations 20:14 and 1 Corinth 15:26 that the last enemy that will be destroyed is Death and that will happen after the Millenial reign.

If we go by your position, we will be contradicting 1 Corinth 15:52-56 and Isaiah 65:20.

Christianity Etc › Re: In The World To Come, What If Some Angels Still Choose To Sin by Scholar8200(m): 9:00am On Oct 14, 2015*

The saints who make it to Heaven will no longer have rebellion or sin as an option to choose from; they have made a choice (on Earth) and shall live with its consequence(positive) for all Eternity. Likewise those who reject the Gospel.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 7:26am On Oct 14, 2015*

vooks:
Show me at what point Jesus returns in Revelation. Thank you

Revelations 19:8,14 shows His coming to fight the battle of Armagedon and the establishment of His Millenial reign.

Notice that in that verse the saints do not go to meet Him in the air (as 1 Thessalonians 4 describes) rather they come with Him. (the armies of Heaven used in Rev. 19 vs 14 were the saints because Rev 19 vs 8 already told us that the white linen is the righteousness of the saints, not Angels).
Nothing is said here of the dead in Christ rising and those alive being changed rather Zechariah 12:10,11 shows the mourning by those who once ''received Him not'' and they will be on Earth.

Christianity Etc › Re: Wait O: How Come The Word Satan Is Rarely Ever Mentioned In The Old Testament? by Scholar8200(m): 9:51pm On Oct 13, 2015*

malvisguy212:
hey bro, I love this answer.

Glory to God and Father of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Likes 1 Share

Christianity Etc › Re: Wait O: How Come The Word Satan Is Rarely Ever Mentioned In The Old Testament? by Scholar8200(m): 9:49pm On Oct 13, 2015

LarrySun:
I think Jesus had a personal hatred for fig trees (Luke 13:6).

In Matthew 21:19, He did it to show to the disciples that they could do anything (even if it is not logically right?) if they had Faith.

Rather there was more of fig trees in Israel.

Christianity Etc › Re: Wait O: How Come The Word Satan Is Rarely Ever Mentioned In The Old Testament? by Scholar8200(m): 8:11pm On Oct 13, 2015

LarrySun:
[b]I was reading the Bible and came upon Mark 11:12-14. Jesus was returning from a journey, he was hungry. He saw a fig tree from a distance and went to it, hoping to find some figs that he could eat on it, but he was disappointed when he came to it and saw that the tree only had leaves, there was no fig on it. That was because IT WAS NOT THE RIGHT TIME FOR FIGS. But Jesus was angry and cursed the tree,

i am yet to find a version that shows that that action was done in anger! I believe it was His way of illustrating Matthew 17:20. Why would One Who went on a forty day fast and refused food from His disciples because of the joy of doing the Father's will and multiplied food(and even rebuked His disciples when they thought He was speaking of bread at a time), suddenly loose His temper on a tree?! That wont be plausible!
Another example of such illuatrative practical was when He washed the disciples' feet.

saying: 'No one shall ever eat figs from you again!'

Why would Jesus do that? Was it the fault of the tree that it did not produce figs? Was it its fault that it was not yet the season for figs? Wasn't it written in the book of Ecclesiastes that 'There is a time for everything under the sun'? Why would the poor tree be cursed with barrenness because it wasn't yet the time for conception? Those verses confuse me a lot. I hope that there would be a better reason for Jesus's action towards the fig tree; a reason far greater than mere hunger. I hope someone would explain.[/b]

That the Bible clearly states that it wasnt the time of figs (a fact which the average Israelite should know) shows that Jesus ,as He was wont being the Teacher He is, was about to illustrate a lesson to His disciples (learners).

2 Likes 1 Share

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 6:06pm On Oct 13, 2015*

vooks:
Coming of Jesus is....coming of Jesus and rapture is rapture. These are different events happening at the exact same moment not thousands years apart.

Inability to comprehend Revelation symbols has birthed endless confusion and the most absurd theories

Do you mean the coming of Jesus and the ensuing battle of Armageddon will be the rapture?

1.How then do you explain the fact that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 speaks of meeting the Lord in the air while Revelations 20 speaks of an Earthly reign, seconded by Isaiah 63:2,3, Zechariah 12:9-10 (cf Revelations 1:7) and Zechariah 14:2,3,4,9 etc

2. And what will be the import of Isaiah 60 that describes the condition Jerusalem will be during the Milenial reign when Christ reigns in Jerusalem?

3. and when will this be fulfilled sad

Not the same as battle of Armageddon) Revelations 20:7-10?

4. 1 Thessalonians 4 talks of meeting the Lord in the air(Rapture), Revelations 20 etc talks of The Lord descending to earth and reigning after the Battle of Armagedon; the millenial reign ends with the battle of Gog and Magog this time fire falls from Heaven and destroys the attackers.

5.Armagedon ends with the final judgement of the antichrist; Gog and Magog ends with the final Judgement of satan (find these in Revelations 19 & 20) Armagedon is succeeded by the Millenial reign; Gog and Magog is succeeded by the Great White Throne Judgement hence these events are different just like Rapture precedes Great Tribulation and Millenial reign precedes Great White Throne Judgement! The Millenial reign, unlike the Rapture, begins with a battle and ends with a battle-Armagedon and Gog&Magog respectively!
6. And if Armagedon will take place at the rapture what purpose will another battle - Gog and Magog Revelations 20:8-10- serve?
We are here to learn (not to win an argument)hence my quoting of these references. If I am wrong please indicate and explain those references vis a vis other parallel passages.

cc
EMILO2STAY
Mr President1

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 5:25pm On Oct 13, 2015

dolphinheart:
These are questions I want all to consider and possibly answer.

1. What happens after the event of the so called rapture.
2. Will there still be followers of Christ left on earth after the so called rapture?
3. If there will be followers of Christ left after these so called rapture, what will happen to them, will they die during the tribulation or the war of armagedon or will they survive it?

4. If they die, what happens to them?
5. If they do not die, what happens to them?

Christianity Etc › Re: When Is Rapture . Pre Tribulation, Mid Tribulation Or Post Tribulation by Scholar8200(m): 3:00pm On Oct 13, 2015

There is need to differentiate between the Rapture (1 Thess 4:17) and the Coming of Christ to establish the Millenial Reign (Revelations 19:11-13, 20:4-6). Rapture would be pre-tribulation (see Revelations 19:7-10 a description of what the Bride: Raptured church would be doing in Heaven while the Tribulation lasts) while the Coming of Christ to establish the Millenial Reign would be after the Tribulation (Revelations 20 :4-7).
Rapture takes place without a battle, the Coming takes place with a Battle!
Rapture signals the end of the Church age and the commencement of the 70th Week. And we are told in 2 Thessalonians 2 that He Who hinders the antichrist from manifesting would be taken out of the way. Now what will be the essence of leaving the Church on the Earth?

Inability to differentiate Bible references that relate to both events has been a source of confusion and makes many to affirm what may contradict other portions!

1 Like

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 (of 118 pages)