₦airaland Forum

MizMyColi:


Abraham never mentioned the name of Satan.
Isaac never mentioned the name of Satan.
Jacob never mentioned the name of Satan.
Moses never mentioned the name of Satan.
David never mentioned the name of Satan.


These Old Testament saints never rebuked the demonic, never cast out devils and never engaged in spiritual warfare against dark powers and principalities. When they prayed to God, their approach was to ask God to do or not to do something. "God, please don't destroy us" or "God, please destroy our earthly enemy" or "God, please be merciful and stop afflicting us." It was all in God's hands, in other words. They frequently prayed for the Lord to relent and change His mind about things. They actually asked the Lord to "repent" of His destructions toward them.
The New Testament was vastly different in their view of prayer and Satan.


[b]Listen to some amazing statistics. The Old Testament is 1,109 pages compared to the New Testament’s 334 pages. The Old Testament is over three times larger than the New. Yet, the New Testament references to Satan dwarf the Old Testament references. Satan basically just appears in three Old Testament passages - - Job 1-2; Zech. 3:1-2 and 1 Chr. 21:1. Yet, in the New Testament every writer mentions Satan. “Devil” is mentioned 60 times, “Devils” 51 times, “Satan” 31 times, as well as a plethora of other verses mentioning Satan by other names, such as the wicked one (1 Jn. 5:18), the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4), a roaring lion (1 Pet. 5:8 ), your adversary (1 Pet. 5:8 ), the tempter (Matt. 4:3), a murderer from the beginning (Jn. 8:44), prince of this world (Jn. 12:31; 14:30; 16:11), accuser of our brethren (Rev. 12:10), thief (Jn. 10:10), a liar and the father of it (Jn. 8:44), angel of light (2 Cor. 11:14), the prince of the power of the air (Eph. 2:2), and the great dragon (Rev. 12:9).[/b]


The bottom line is that Satan is rarely mentioned in the Old Testament, and is never identified either as the source of evil or as an enemy of God. When Satan is mentioned, he is seen as a servant of God, merely obeying the directives of God. In fact, according to modern day Jewish encyclopedias, Satan is considered by the Jews to be the angel of death described in the Old Testament who carries out the judgments and punishments of God.
Jesus, by contrast, continually exposed and rebuked both Satan and his devils. He made clear that Satan was a cosmic rebel opposed to God's kingdom on every level. Satan was not working for God but against Him.


Moreover, with regard to prayer, Jesus never prayed to change God's will but rather to release it. Jesus didn't change God's mind, He revealed it. We are the ones who need to repent and relent, not God. His mercy and grace is light years ahead of us of every level.
The is why the New Testament must be our more evolved source for the truth about Satan and our proper posture of prayer.

Source: Facebook @RichardMurray

1. As at the time of the OT, he was not the adversary (meaning of satan); he was the usurper wielding the dominion that was Adam's. But in the NT, he is a defeated foe who now accuses the brethren and atTempts to deceive! If he appeared as a servant in the OT it is because he was, "sitting in Adam's seat" and God still rules among the armies of Heaven (and the heavenlies) and among the inhabitants of the earth and the dominion usurped cannot hinder Him!

2. As at the time of the OT, he was not a defeated foe (Christ defeated him) meaning the OT saints did not have the authority over him hence there was no issue of warfare/subduing of creeping things etc. If the OT saints would cast out devils, in whose name would they have done that? Remember it has to be a Man.

3. Indeed, to attempt to change God's perfect will is to opt for His permissive will with the dire consequences (of course such will be warned beforehand). God's will was, is and shall ever be the best for us!!!

4. The book of Job quite debunks the higlighted!

5. If you read Daniel 2 & 7 you will understand the fact that the dominion thus usurped from Adam was only executable through man hence the Prince of Persia ,that was in charge when Medes& Persians ruled the World, could successfully oppose Daniel's prayer for a time ( Daniel 10:19-21) because it was his time. Besides the reference to the Prince of Grecia (in Daniel 10:20) was perfectly keeping with the fact that that was to be the next world power (as Daniel 7:5 shows) and the Prince (of Grecia) thus mentioned dominated the world through Alexander the Great (ruler of the Greeks/Grecians).
Why have I said all these? These Princes were under the authority of their master the devil (Ephesians 6:10-12 speaks of Principalities and Powers) and since God's justice would not be compromised, their usurped dominion was un-challenged by God but He still worked out His purposes.

6. Note the difference: In Daniel 10:19-21, a Prince under satan's dominion withstood an Angel for 21 days and the only respite was the coming of Michael. And when Moses died, the best Michael could say to the devil was, "The LORD rebuke thee"! That was the OT.

But under the NT, a single Angel , in Revelations 20:1-4, drags satan into the bottomless pit and binds him for 1000years! Why? The usurped dominion has been recovered through Christ hence satan is just like a common rebel leader on the run!

Is this clear?

Op, if you can answer this questions, you will understand the scenario described in Genesis

1. Are you a creation of God?
2. Were you formed directly from the dust?
3. If your answer to (1) is yes, on which day were you formed?

aminusanti:
(1)   The Bible says false prophets can perform miracles (Matt. 24:24), the Prophet Muhammad’s greatest miracle was a Book, the Holy Quran.

Can you shed more light on the last statement considering the fact that Moses also came with the Law (written with the Finger of God!) and many miracles? Afterall muslims usually place Mohammed and Moses on the same pedestal of being both prophet and founder of a religion.

(2)   John the Baptist performed no miracles (John 10:41), yet he was a true Prophet.

Indeed. But if you accept the last statement why then do you reject this his declaration (being a True prophet):
John 1:29 the next day John seeth Jesus... And saith, Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world...
Or this
John 1:33,34
...He that sent me to baptize the same said... Upon Whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining, the same is He which baptiseth with the Holy Ghost and I saw and bare record that this is the Son of God
And this:
John 1:15 John bare witness ...saying... This was He of Whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me; FOR HE WAS BEFORE ME

(3)   Jesus was poisoned on the cross; he was a true Prophet.

No He wasnt! (Good you now realise He was actually crucified; to deny this will be to mock your point 4, calling true prophets liars because they prophesied His death)

(4)   Many true Prophets were killed (Matt. 23:7), but they were still true Prophets.

Correct! 

(5)   The Prophets of the Bible are guilty of major sins, e.g. incest, fornication, drunkenness, nudity, and they were True Prophets!

And God did not gloss over these nor cover them up but rather each received a strong retribution (David, Solomon and Moses come to mind)

(6)   There are pre-Islamic predictions of Muhammad (peace be upon him)

Meaning there was no religion called Islam till Mohammed came. This breeds more questions but let's be modest in distracting the focus of the thread.
 

Most of the miracles of the previous Prophets were of a physical nature, whereas the greatest miracle of Muhammad (peace be upon him) is intellectual. We are referring to the Qur’ân. Perhaps the reason for this is that this miracle is for the lasting Message and must remain visible to all insightful people of every generation until the Day of Judgment. The miracles of the other Prophets have passed into history; no one experienced them except for those that were present at that time. The miracle of the Qur’ân, however, remains until the Day of Judgment.

refer to my first question.

John the Baptist was a true Prophet but performed no miracles:
 
And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true. (John 10:41)

Yes but the measure of a true prophet excelled in John! He pointed every one to the Messiah, the Seed through Whom all the nations of the world will be blessed, as God promised Abraham.

Let us discuss the poisoning of Jesus. According to the Gospels, Jesus was given a sponge full of vinegar, and immediately died seconds later.
Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. (John 19:29-30)

This proves Jesus was poisoned, the vinegar is supposed to have stimulating effects, yet it killed Jesus instantly!

He was not poisoned by vinegar! Do a research.
The reason they gave vinegar was because it was what was given to those crucified to alleviate pain.
But He died on the cross not because He committed sin, it was just the declaration of John the baptist in John 1:29, seconded by Isaiah (53:6-10) and Daniel (9:26) that was being fulfilled: He was cut off but not for Himself but our sins and judgement deserved were laid on Him!

Who can objectively establish tangible benefits gained by the youths/society concerned?

"I Kept God From Working" By Dr. A. C. Dixon

While I was pastor of the Baptist Church in a university town of North Carolina, I was made to realize that as a preacher I was a dismal failure.
Parents from all over the state wrote and requested me to look after the spiritual welfare of their sons in the university. I prepared sermons with students in mind and was glad to see that they showed their appreciation by attending our Sunday services in great numbers. We also appointed a week of prayer and preaching, with the single purpose of winning them to Christ and they attended the evening meetings.
About the middle of the week, however, their interest seemed to turn into opposition. The spirit of mischief possessed them. One night they tried to put out the lights. As I walked through the grove of trees around the university buildings I sometimes heard an imitation of my voice coming from behind a tree. A bright student had caught a part of my sermon of the night before and he was giving it in thought and tone for the benefit of his fellow students who responded by applause and laughter. As I walked before an open window I heard my voice imitated in prayer floating out. I felt defeated and seriously considered resigning from the pastorate. No one had been saved.
After a restless night I took my Bible and went into a grove of trees and remained there until three o'clock in the afternoon. As I read I asked God to show me what was the matter. The Word of God searched me through and through, giving me a deep sense of sin and helplessness such as I had never had before.
That evening the students listened reverently and at the close of the service, two rows were filled with those who responded to the invitation. The revival continued day after day until more than seventy of the students confessed Christ.
What Did It?
The practical question is, "What did it?" Certainly not I. I fear it was I who kept God from doing it for a long time.
Out of that day's experience of waiting on God, there came to me a clear-cut distinction between influence and power.
Influence is made up of many things: intellect, education, money, social position, organization--all of which ought to be used for Christ. Power is God Himself at work unhindered by our unbelief and other sins. The New Testament word power holds the secret. The power from on high was no other than the power of the Holy Ghost touching the soul through the living Word and giving it a birth from above. I had been trusting and testing many other good things, only to fail. The touch of God by His Holy Spirit did what my best efforts could not do.
©2002-2015 SermonIndex.net

Many 'workers' would realise rather late that their self-indulgence, sin-excusing, sensational/sensuous pulpiteering, entertainment-ministering and worldliness was at the expense of precious souls that could have been saved if they (workers) had simply obeyed the command to deny self and bear the cross daily!

mrwiddy:
......counter conclusions
1&2-the Quran is the most read book,nd it was even stated by non Muslims readers that it contains the most updated facts (fact book ).Being the most updated book,there should. be no obsolete part in its messages as concluded in Q 41:44.Moreso,the quest for the long lost INJEEL is not adequately wheted,it requires a high end islamoquaranic knowledge...... visit Sufis for thr the real INJEEL,it might not necessarily be a text.
3-there is barely any part of the Quran that seem unuseful,probably you might be thinking of the historical part,but i'm sure you will agree with me that : "WITHOUT THE PAST, IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO GET WITH THE PRESENT ".
4-i refer you to number 1.
6- those books are old facts its commandments ve been adjusted in the Qur'an,but scholars still make use of them for sermons and its likes,the quiet genuine ine is the SABUURAH (psalms of david),even. though it bears some similar commandments with the qur'an....and so does the real TORAH and INJEEL.



hardball;
WHER IS THE REAL INJEEL.?

so where do you get your much needed clarifications from at present?

(The Injeel=Gospel=Glad Tidings = Luke 2:10,11; John 1:29, John 3:16, Luke 24:46,47.)

BlackrulesDworld:
KJV: I formed the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the lord do all this things.

NIV: I formed the light and create darkness: I bring prosperity and create disaster: I, the lord do all these thing.

NLT: I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the lord, am the one who does all these things.

ASV: I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create evil. I'm jehovah, that doeth all these thing.

In this passage God is saying he makes peace and form creates evil. This is an unresolved verse that 99% of the men of god don't talk about.

This passage literally makes God sound awful, what loving creator would bring disaster on his subjects/creation.

For what reason does God create evil? Is it not unethical to worship a being who is directly responsible for human suffering?

Why do we praise him for his blessings, but not equally criticize him for his shortcomings?

If God is all powerful, all loving, all knowing being as believed by some religious sects why does he create evil for what he creates?

Isn't it weird that God allows suffering to exist, allow satan to run around tempting his creation?

God knowingly and intentionally created a world where people would suffer. He brought people into existence to have them subjected to misery. God could end suffering and did not, is that not Gods fault?

He could have created a world with evil knowing fully well that satan will go against his wish, nothing exist that was never created God created satan, satan learned pride from his master called God or from where did he learned pride from?

If God created all, was pride a creation of satan or God?

He could have created a world without evil, but he didn't not which means God is responsible for the presence of evil and that raises important questions.


Cc: hahn, jonnydon22 and all erudites...

Well I am not an erudite in your context, but just as God creates darkness by withdrawing the Light so also evil is created when His Goodness is withdrawn!
The creation to whom the latter first happened to was created as described thus:
''thou art the anointed cherub...thou wast perfect in all thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee...
Ezekiel 28:14a,15
He was perfect till he chose his own path and all the glory and beauty were withdrawn. The result? A hideous monster! Hence it is not as though God intentionally created an evil being neither was it according to His purpose.
A similar thing happened to Nebuchadnezzar but he was restored after 7 years (Daniel 4)

Medicis:
If the Bible was corrupted, was this before or after Muhammad? If before, why does God tell Muhammad to refer to a corrupted Scripture for guidance, and why does he say of the Torah and Gospel ‘wherein is guidance and light’ rather than ‘wherein there used to be before they were corrupted’? If after, why does the Muslim not accept the Bible, since current translations are all based upon manuscripts that predate Muhammad?

Your op leads me to conclude that
1. That part of the Quran referring muslims to the Torah and Injeel, is obsolete and should be done away with immediately.(To date no NL muslim has given us a link to the 'correct' Injeel and Torah then where do they get clarifications from? Since muslims believe Allah is all-knowing then it is 100% certain they need those clarifications!)
2. This becomes necessary since the true material referred to no longer exists.
3. Meaning you may need to establish through study, other parts of the Quran that are no longer useful due to similar issues.
4. Also provide new facilitators that you can clarify things from (or ask Allah to do so) since the initial materials(Injeel and Torah) for that purpose have now been altered.(i doubt Allah will do this since Mohammed is believed by Muslims to be the last prophet)
5. Once they are provided, then commence the alteration of the Quran showing the new adjustments!
6. Therefore:
CLAIMING THAT THE GOSPEL AND TORAH AS WE HAVE THEM ARE ALTERED IS A WAY OF INDIRECTLY SAYING THE QURAN MUST BE ALTERED ELSE REMAIN WITH A COMMAND THAT MISLEADS.(Pls let the muslims correct me in a logical manner where i am wrong ).

mrwiddy:
you r ryt, even tho u dint quote d verse rytly,bt i ve dz question 4 u,WHERE IS THE REAL INJEEL(new testament ),i believe u r nt thinking z. dat varieties of books people carry to church,anyday,Christians r nt acting wt the real INJEEL,dey r jst reading books dat was mistranslated by the old greeks in dose donkey years.

Your reply vis a vis the op leads me to conclude that:
1. That part of the Quran is obsolete and should be done away with immediately.(to date none has given us a link to the unaltered Injeel then where do they get clarifications from? At least you believe Allah is all knowing meaning it is 100% certain you will need clarifications!)
2. This becomes necessary since the true material referred to no longer exists.
3. Meaning you may need to establish through study, other parts of the Quran that are no longer useful due to similar issues.
4. Also provide new facilitators that you can clarify things from (or ask Allah to do so) since the initial materials(Injeel and Torah) for that purpose have now been altered.(i doubt this though since Mohammed was supposed to be the final prophet)
5. Once they are provided, then commence the alteration of the Quran showing the new adjustments!
6. Therefore:
CLAIMING THAT THE GOSPEL AND TORAH AS WE HAVE THEM ARE ALTERED IS A WAY OF INDIRECTLY SAYING THE QURAN MUST BE ALTERED ELSE REMAIN WITH A COMMAND THAT MISLEADS.(Pls correct me where i am wrong).

WETINUSABI:
I feel the translation of the name from its original tongue should have never been tampered with cos of the power in that great name...don't you think?

Not really! Just like saying the Books of the Bible should have been maintained in their original Hebrew and Greek (because the Word is exalted more than the Name) and whosoever wants to read must learn and master those languages first.

I guess the book will also excuse murder as a sin against nobody
That text should be named Recipe for a Nihilistic Society!

oracle2012:
1.not everyone can pass through the purifying fire of purgatory as some go to heaven directly after death as the case with the good thief.

What made the thief on the cross good? Since his faith in Christ earned him a purgatory-waiver and made him fit for a one-way Heaven ticket, then how come you say those who likewise believe on Jesus may still need extra purging when what they did is the same as what the thief did?

2.not every one can attain holiness without which none can see God ,hence the bible speaks as in this article those who will be purified as if by fire.others would be purified by the blood of the lamb ,especially those who don't need to go to purgatory.

Why will only a special group be purified by the Blood?!
By what means do those that attain holiness attain it? Is the resource available for all? The Bible passage you are referring to talks of the works to be rewarded, not the soul! Besides, the activities described in 1 Corinth 3:13-15 will take place on a day when the Lord will reward the works of the believers done while they were on Earth meaning the passage refers not to salvation/purification but our works!
Let's see:

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames.
1 Corinth 3:15
Meaning that person whose works will be burnt up will not be expelled from Heaven but will be like the thief on the cross- died without any service to be rewarded!

3.the belief in purgatory leads one to try his best to avoid it ,hence the person would put more effort into going to heaven and avoiding the slightest offense against God.

On the contrary, it encourages moral laxity because, "afterall I will eventually be admitted to Heaven unlike the Heaven or Hell option!"
Moreover, Jesus spoke about the Broad and Narrow Way, on which do the purgatory inmates travel on Earth?
Is the doctrine of Purgatory not a smart (but rather deceptive) way of assuring some Broadway travellers that there is a remedial class that will eventually see them being admitted into the destination of the travellers on the Narrow way?!

4.the existence of purgatory was believed by all Christians for thousands of year until martin Luther broke away from the church.

Doesnt make it right! Why is the NT and all the Epistles by the Apostles silent about it?

To start with, it is wrong to say it is their culture in the US or any developed country! The practice of women wearing trousers was not seen in the 16th-18th Century (and snow still fell then!) meaning it is a new practice that has nothing to do with the culture of the West! It is a practice that arose in fashion and which was seen as egregious because of how the trouser helped highlight that which should be covered thus violating the scripture that exhorts to modesty and avoidance of that which has the potential of making the weak to fall thus the wearer becomes culpable.



Moreover, if you read Deuteronomy 22, of all the commands therein, only the verse on wrong attires describes the doers thereof as an abomination! To dispense with that verse will mean to logically encourage every action described as an abomination (bestiality included) in the OT!!!

Jude 1:23 says to,hate even the garment spotted by the flesh. I believe this is still valid today.

mubarakopeyemi:
Were they actually slaves?
we do not need any direct proof in the bible to establish that they were actually sex slaves. This is Human reasoning. The manner at which the events occurred would speak for the deed. What will make us think that those that killed non-virgins and innocent people in a violent manner did not have the so called SLAVE Virgin girls as SEX slaves and that they were just using them as normal SLAVES. either of the two is still not right.

Give us proof to the contrary! Wait a minute, you quoted copiously from the Bible in the op, why the sudden digression?! Establish your claims from the Bible! And give examples of people who actually had pre-teen (remember your topic-paedophilia) as wives or sex-slaves else you distract your own thread.

This still doesn't prove that they weren't sex slaves, afterall not all things would be made public. Some things would be kept secret. This is quite logical. or I'm wrong here

Not when the law is there for all to see besides those like Solomon who had concubines were exposed, David and his adulterous act was exposed in details. Meaning, you are wrong. But if you have proof from scripture, do supply them! Show ONE person that had a sex slave and was egged on by the Law/a true prophet nay just show one sex-slave owner!

commanding sharing of virgin girls as slaves as if they were a kind of Bread or investment What a God that is.

Open a thread on slavery bro. Besides, the OT was an eye for an eye therefore, Israel was also shared too when she backslid and failed to hid warnings. What a God? A God of Justice!

1/50 or 1/500 which should we pick? and where is 1/500 coming from?

From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the LORD [size=13pt]one out of every five hundred[/size], whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep
Numbers 31:28

the verse clearly said 1 of every 50. not 1 of every 500 even if I were to think acutely, we would choose 1/50 because it comes directly from the verse.

From the Israelites' half, select one out of every fifty, whether people, cattle, donkeys, sheep or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the LORD's tabernacle."
Numbers 31:30
Quite different from the 1 out of 500 meant for the Lord's tribute and handed to Eleazar.

Good. God of Judgment. Through Violence and slavery of innocent ones including virgin girls ??. killing of Non virgin women also. Revise your definition of Love.
Thanks for actually saying he is a God of Judgment.

Good you have learnt something new today ! Who were the Midianites and who were the Israelites? Daniel was a godly young man but he was carried away captive when his nation was conquered. In fact he became a eunuch(was castrated)!

MightyKabex:
MightyKabex: ___ it is so pathetic to see how shallow minded some christians can be. I'm tired of christians manipulating the conspicuous truth about the sadistic book called bible.. A christian here said "he was baptised to fulfil all righteousness" .. This is so lame and irrelevant excuse which portrays how desperate you are

Rather your willingness to pick the passages that appear to support you having shorn them of their contexts, shows your desperation to malign the Bible!

. the biblical Jesus is everything but righteous. Considering a man that shall rot in hell for being abusive

Indeed the Pharisees will be proud of one of their own in person of Kabex!

. The biblical Jesus said, "whosoever shall say, Thou
fool, shall be in danger of hell fire" (Matthew
5:22). Yet, he himself did so repeatedly, as
Matthew 23:17-19 and Luke 11:40 & 12:20
show. Clearly Jesus should be in danger of
hell too?

Not when the context of Matthew 5 clearly shows the event of reacting to an offense against one's person! How many time did Jesus call the Pharisees (when they said He used beelzebub), the soldier(that slapped Him), the witnesses(that accused Him falsely), a fool? But when as a Teacher come from God HE rebuked those who were deceiving many and making them two-fold children of hell (no personal offence that!), He rebuked them with the strongest words through the same Spirit that inspired Jeremiah when he described backslidden Israel as a group of foolish children!

.. Is this your definition of righteousness? How can a man who is so much fond of telling lies be righteous? I,mighty kabex,will help you with some of the lies of your messiah.. "Or have ye not read in the law, how that
on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple
profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?"
(Matthew 12:5) Nowhere does the OT state
that the priests in the temple profaned the
Sabbath and were considered blameless .

What a pity!Indeed when you say you are 'mighty', the pride behind that claim makes your show of ignorance all the more eye-popping!
Profaning the sabbath in the sense that they brake the sabbath by carrying out offerings and sacrifices - their work - on the sabbath day!

Why does jesus lie so much? In Luke 23:43 Jesus said to the thief on
the cross, "Today shalt thou be with me in
paradise." This obviously has to be false, for
Jesus was supposed to lay dead in the tomb
for three days following his crucifixion.

Mr, are you a believer in the man = chicken principle?! ie no spirit nor soul?!

See how pathetic and false-tongued he is? "And no man hath ascended up to heaven,
but he that came down from heaven, but he
that came down from heaven, even the Son of
man which is in heaven" (John 3:13). If Jesus
is in heaven, how can he be down on earth
speaking?

Jesus lived in vital relationship with the Father ie He abode in the Father and calls all saints to do same in Him! Well, I need not explain this to you, it's a very simple spiritual principle and blessed one at that! Only those born of the Spirit knows what this means!

Why does the bible portray and convey the message of Jesus as a liar? So..the lame excuse your gave,is churlish and doesn't apply to my post. You're left with two choices.. Either the bible is a book of forgery,or Jesus was truly a bizzare and sinful character..I will advise you to study your bible well before posting a rebuttal on mighty kabex' post.

What a pity! (turns to the audience) spiritual blindness is real folks!

mubarakopeyemi:
Slaves acting as what? Acting as sex slaves you ought to have said. even if they were not sex slaves why should they be kept as slaves when indeed they were innocent. Why would the ever loving God of the Bible as powerful and big as he is do this to young innocent women.

mubarak sure is in a hurry to refute what he apparently does not (or would not take time to) understand!
Show me ONE proof of a slave used as a sex object by the Israelites in the Bible.
Lest I forget, GOD is kind and Loving but is a God of Justice! Gentile nations spurn warnings and gets judged by others who takes some alive as slaves; Israel does the same things and gets conquered and some of hers are retained as slaves!

And you are quite funny by telling me they would know they were virgins or not through their age. are you kidding me? Their age? I'm sure u must have heard about the 10-12 years old girls giving birth. Going with your judgment we can just conclude, after hearing that they were 10, 11, 12 years old, that they were virgins. Their pregnancy might be holy.

I asked some questions initially which you overlooked; now prove the highlighted from the Scriptures (dont be anachronistic in trying to say it happens today; question is did it happen then among them? If yes, then give me ONE example from the Bible)!

What are you saying? The bible God was giving commands and 32 girls were to be kept for Him. The bible said this not me.
Study this well again.

The highlighted applies more to you!!!
Moses gave the tribute to Eleazar the priest as the LORD's part, as the LORD commanded Moses.
Numbers 31:41
The Priests were set apart and had a sacred responsibility but they also had families too!

Before you scream 'sex slaves' again understand that Eleazar was the high priest at this time.Assignment - Study the commandments meant for the high priests and understand that to use any of those girls as a sex slave was to risk courting swift judgement! Eli (an high priest) had sons who committed fornication and the result on him and those sons were terrible read in 1 Samuel 2,3,4.

40. and 16,000 virgin girls, of whom 32 were the Lord’s share.

Who is the LORD here?

Moses gave the tribute to Eleazar the priest as the LORD's part, as the LORD commanded Moses.
Numbers 31:41

Verse 30 says;
From the half that belongs to the people of Israel, take one of every fifty of the prisoners and of the cattle, donkeys, sheep, goats, and other animals. [b]Give this share to the Levites, who are in charge of maintaining the Lord’s Tabernacle.” [/b]

In this case these girls here are not 32. in this case it says, One of every fifty girls which their total number 32000. So are you now telling me that 1/50 x 32000 =32? It is actually 640. So verse 30 is not addressing the 32 girls for the LORD.

Rather it is 1/500 x (32000/2)=32 meaning 32 was to go to Eleazar!
As regards 1/500 see Numbers 31:28; as regards (32000/2) see Numbers 31:27,40

Please establish why they must be kept as slaves since the Bible God loves everyone, why would he allow innocent little girls to be taken as slaves? Afterall he is such a kind God.

GOD loves everyone but He also is a God of Judgement! Israel suffered similar fate too when their actions demanded it!

MightyKabex:
Assallam aleykum sallam warahmotullah..___
How many times have we heard this lame and
insipid excuse from christians,that Prophet
Muhammad isn't a prophet because he was a
sinner? Now..if we are to you use such
argument.. That also means Jesus is neither a
prophet,nor God nor son of God...because he
was also a sinner throughout the bible_
now,this might come as a shock to most
christians. But,Mighty imam will give you
some verses to consider. Let's take a look at
the bible. Did Jesus sin or not?______


Yes
Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist "for
the
remission of sins." If Jesus had never sinned,
there would be no reason for him to be
baptized. The excuse christians are fond of giving,is that "he baptised to fulifil the law" .. Which law? The same law christians abandon and consider immoral and unapproved?

He was not baptised to fulfil the law! Even the person sent to baptise confessed that:
But John tried to talk him out of it. "I am the one who needs to be baptized by you," he said, "so why are you coming to me?"
Matthew 3:14
The same John had earlier confessed:
Though his ministry follows mine, I'm not even worthy to be his slave and untie the straps of his sandal."
John 1:27

Finally, John revealed that:
"I baptize with water those who repent of their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is greater than I am--so much greater that I'm not worthy even to be his slave and carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
Matthew 3:11

It was in fulfilling all righteousness, partaking of all that man partook of, but sin.

Jesus also committed the
following sins br /> He insulted his mother,
breaking the
commandment to honor his mother (Ex 20:12,
Dt 5:16)____
----While he yet talked to the people, behold,
his
mother and his brethren stood without,
desiring to speak with him. Then one said
unto
him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren
stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But
he answered and said unto him that told him,
WHO IS MY *MOTHER?* and WHO are my
brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his
disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my
brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of
my
Father which is in heaven, the same is my
brother, and sister, and mother. Matthew
12:46-50
And it came to pass, as he spake these things,
a
certain woman of the company lifted up her
voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb
that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast
sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are
they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Luke 11:27-28
_________

Very funny! In vain do we find the insult! Besides, the Person here was a full grown man and not a toddler!

Jesus also committed a grave sin because He
broke the Sabbath (Ex 20:8, Dt 5:12) and
therefore, according to Ex 31:15, should be
stoned to death.
Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and
sought to slay him, because he had done these
things on the sabbath day. John 5:16
___________

You are beginning to sound like the Pharisees! Interestingly, a man was healed here. Read Luke 13:15 to understand the hypocrisy of the accusers. Besides, the command was to avoid labour/service on the sabbath. Let me ask, did they feed their animals on the sabbath?

He coveted a donkey (and/or a colt?), breaking
the commandment, "Don't covet." ( Ex 20:17, Dt
5:21].
Before christians start going haywire,let's see where Jesus coveted a donkey___

Go into the village over against you, and
straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt
with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
Matthew 21:2____
Go your way into the village over against you:
and as soon as ye be entered into it, ye shall
find a colt tied, whereon never man sat; loose
him, and bring him. Mark 11:2
Another verse where Jesus coveted a donkey___; Go ye into the village over against you; in the
which at your entering ye shall find a colt tied,
whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and
bring him hither. Luke 19:30___

Define covetousness. Perhaps you may likely say that he also coveted Peter's boat too
There is a difference between borrowing an item for a use, and desiring an item to be your personal property permanently!
For examples of covetousness, see the case of, 1) Achan (book of Joshua) and 2) Ahab (husband of Jezebel) coveting Naboth's vineyard

mubarakopeyemi:
Let us see some passages that clearly support Pedophilia and Rape of preteen girls

Can you establish from the scriptures that:
1. The girls were to be forced(a word used for rape in the Bible eg 2 Samuel 13:12,14.
2. The girls in question were to be sex objects.

Rather, such girls were to be spared but retained as slaves:

But all the women children,.... The females among the little ones:that have not known a man by lying with him; which might be pretty clear, and easily concluded, from their age:

keep for yourselves; either to be handmaids to them, or to be married among them when grown up
(Gills Exposition...)

What I find in Deuteronomy 21:11 shows that they were only allowed, under the law, to marry war captives that were women, not pre-teens:
if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife
Deut 21:11

If you will refute, kindly use the law too and other commentaries!

Numbers 31: 17-18

17. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

The Jewish soldiers were commanded by “God” in the bible to keep the woman children (little girls) for themselves!

Hastily assuming this was for sex purposes (suggested by that exclamation mark and corroborated by other parts of the op) is indicative of a thinking pattern that needs renewal!

In addition, they were commanded to kill every woman that hath know a man by lying with him. How these soldiers in those days know if the girls are virgin or not? [b]Simply they verify it by raping them [/b]and if the Jews discovered that they are non-virgins then they kill them as they were commanded by “God”.

Establish the highlighted by ONE example in scripture!!!

But the most outrageous is that the Bible imply that God is a Pedophile himself! (Astagfirullah)

What a pity! Your thought pattern/mind needs renewal. Show me ONE godly man in the Bible, whose age can be established therefrom and that of his wife, that had a pre-teen as a wife!

Numbers 31: 25-40 (NLT)

[b]25. And the Lord said to Moses,
26. “You and Eleazar the priest and the family leaders of each tribe are to make a list of all the plunder taken in the battle, including the people and animals.
27. Then divide the plunder into two parts, and give half to the men who fought the battle and half to the rest of the people.
28. From the army’s portion, first give the Lord his share of the plunder—one of every 500 of the prisoners and of the cattle, donkeys, sheep, and goats.
29. Give this share of the army’s half to Eleazar the priest as an offering to the Lord.
30. From the half that belongs to the people of Israel, [size=13pt]take one of every fifty of the prisoners[/size] and of the cattle, donkeys, sheep, goats, and other animals. [size=13pt][b]Give this share to the Levites,[/b[/size]] who are in charge of maintaining the Lord’s Tabernacle.”
[/b]31. So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.
32The plunder remaining from everything the fighting men had taken totaled 675,000 sheep and goats,
33. 72,000 cattle,
34. 61,000 donkeys,
35. and 32,000 virgin girls.
36Half of the plunder was given to the fighting men. It totaled 337,500 sheep and goats,
37. of which 675 were the Lord’s share;
38. 36,000 cattle, of which 72 were the Lord’s share;
39. 30,500 donkeys, of which 61 were the Lord’s share;
40.[size=13pt] and 16,000 virgin girls, of whom 32 were the Lord’s share. [/size]

In the verse 35 we are told that Jews caught as booty 32.000 preteen girls for themselves.

All these violence??

The verse 40 is to dedicate the little girls (of women that had not known man by lying with him-32 of them)
to“God”! As God, himself commanded above that wants these preteen girls. Indeed clear perversion, God in the bible want for himself 32 little girls, why? Maybe to do what his soldiers(Jews)to the innocent little girls. Therefore Bible by saing that “LORD'S share of the 16,000 Virgins was thirty two (preteen girls) actually demonstrate the Pedophilic nature of the biblical “God” .

Its a shame

1. Did you read verse thirty very well to ascertain who those 32 girls were to serve? (the Levites, not as wives because the Levites were never allowed to marry any other tribe in Israel!)
2. Innocent little girls with the option of either being killed because their nation had been conquered or spared but retained as slaves (and that not with cruel terms).
3. You appear to have overlooked the fact that the OT allows an eye for an eye and the Midianites had launched the first offensive and their time was ripe for judgement! When Israel too was guilty, they were likewise conquered and taken as slaves!!! (Daniel and the rest were slaves/eunuchs after Nebuchadnezzar conquered Israel)

God's promise to Abraham was that in his Seed, all the Nations of the Earth will be blessed Genesis 22:18 The Seed there was a reference to Christ!

Besides, this is what was said:
John 1:29
"The next day John seeth Jesus coming toward him and he said, "behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the WORLD"".

Furthermore, John 1:11,12 states that He came to His own and was rejected but [size=13pt]as many[/size] as believed in Him,He gave them power to be called the sons of God!

Moreover John 3:16 seals the sum-
For God so loved the WORLD(not Israel alone) that HE gave His Only Begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believes in Him should not perish!

emerem:
Please can anyone direct me where to get or download (1)ancient and modern with solfa notation or staff (2) Sankey (sacred songs and solos) with solfa notation or staff (3) Smallwood piano for students or little wood. Please your contribution will be of immense help.

You can get Smallwood in any good bookshop.

Which song would you like to transcribe?

ifeness:
Can you give an example of persons cured without vaccines. I mean those cured by laying of hands.

There are many being cured today and many more in recent history eg see this http://www.godsgenerals.com/person_j_lake.htm

Skin color,tribes were taught to people based on religious grounds. Telling a child he is black because of the sins of Ham is barbaric. Even if not based on religious grounds is also barbaric and we are a progressing society.

Never heard that before!!!

Potential starts from knowing there is no god and sin. Therefore one is allowed to make mistakes and hopefully learn from them without fear of hell fire.

How about those who affirm the contrary and the world is still being blessed by their innovations and ingenuity (being potentials discovered and developed)?

ifeness:
Knowing Vaccines and not God cures diseases

Religions is a force for division.

Humanity is more important than God.

There is nothing to die for if you are not religious. I as a non believer in a god have everything to live for.

1. How about those who were cured instantaneously sans vaccines or medicine?
2. Skin colour, tribes, social class has also caused divisions too!
3. That is not a potential but a conclusion the premise of which are anticipated.
4. These are not potentials!!! Besides, I had wanted you to give some potentials YOU have discovered on your journey to god-hood!

ifeness:
What i Christ? We all are Christs,not an individual. We are Christs,Gods who are now realizing our hidden potentials.

What are the ones you have discovered

Let me ask:

1. In the story of Lazarus and the Rich man ( Luke 16:19-31), where do we insert purgatory?
2. Revelations 7:14 speaks of saints in Heaven haven being purified in the Blood of the Lamb (not the fires of purgatory). What would you say about this?
3. Revelations 1:5,6 speaks of pre-tribulation saints as being washed in the same Blood of the Lamb. Did this occur while they were alive or after death? If after death, why did John write it as an accomplished task and not a future action? If while alive, do we infer that the Blood is just as powerless as that of the animals in the OT?

4. Why did Christ assure the thief on the cross of paradise (that same day) when there was still a term to serve in purgatory for purification?!

5. By what do the souls consigned to purgatory 'achieve' holiness? If you say faith, then what is the difference between faith before and after death?

Let's start with these.

ladywriter:
Hmmm! I am not sure. Why don't you give it a try? I did mine when I was ready to withdraw into my card.

But into what account were your clients paying into before you got the card?

ladywriter:
, I have the pics, but i don't like filling the whole place with it. I wrote the post to encourage more people to work online, not to be known or to be popular. I don't like the spotlight. I just want to help people and move on with my business.

Is it possible to link you Payoneer account to Freeelancer using your Account reference number while waiting for the arrival of the Card?

Princewell2012:
There are so many things that God condemned but you will continue to hear something like these...

That's was in the old testament, and now we are in the new testament.

And i began to asked, has God changed?

No He does not change but He Has Plans and Purposes for man that unfolds with time.

His standard is Holiness and righteousness.

Amen!

And it was the same bible that made us to understand that he is an unchangeable God.

Indeed, He is Immutable but His purposes and plans unfold with time

For example, dog and pig are not a clean animals to be eaten, it was considered as an unclean animals.

Ceremonially unclean, Jesus Christ abolished the ceremonial/dispensational aspects of the law.

Now if God rejected them then not to be eaten because of his holiness and who he is,
will he now accept and approve them to be eaten now?

Point of correction, those animals were also created by God. They were tagged unclean ceremonially. Besides, Leviticus 11 clearly states that these were to be an abomination to the Israelites (not to God Who created them). The Substance is come fulfilling the ceremonial thus rendering it redundant and providing Grace that enables us to fulfill the moral law as we walk in the Spirit.
If we walk in the flesh and live in sin under claims of abolished moral law (no scriptural basis for that), we will die (earn the wages of sin) as Romans 8:13 shows

paxonel:
my proof is
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith(that is, from religion to religion, from Judaism to Christianity ): as it is written, The just shall live(exist ) by faith (by Christianity ).
so, we are saved by our faith Christianity

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ:for it is the Power of God unto SALVATION to EVERYONE that beliveth...
Salvation comes through believing the Gospel of Christ.
And such belief is evidenced by transformation of life:
See Romans 1:8 ''...your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world''

John 3:3 talks of being born again and vs 5 explains it to mean being born of the Spirit.
Now paxonel answer:
1. If the call to be born again is a pre-NT concept, can you establish what epoch that command was applicable (apart from NT) and give Bible references to prove it? Also supply recipients.
2. Is John 3:16 applicable to the NT?

3. Why did Jesus command to, ''teach (ing) them to observe whatsoever I have commanded you'', if all such came before the cross hence does not concern NT saints?
4. From John 3:3,5,16,17, we see that to be saved is not a label but is a result of being born of the Spirit. He that believes the Gospel is born of the Spirit-he receives the Life in his spirit through the Spirit, by his faith that came by the Gospel-and is thus redeemed from sin and its consequences and reconciled to God. This was the emphasis of the messages in the NT books.
If you have a different explanation, supply with References.

hahn:
In other words, you do not possess any of these gifts yourself.

Copy

That's your conclusion which I am not eager to refute.
Herod / pharisees also wanted Jesus to work some miracles/signs too but He did none! Why? The Gifts are not given for display or self-projection or to gratify the curiosity of one who has closed his eyes to the Light.
The philosophy of true believers is that we glory in the Giver (Himself being God's Unspeakable Gift) and seek the best gift (1 Corinthians 13).

hahn:
So, I was just wondering. So many Christians here have claimed to be born again and have repeatedly defended their god here and I was just wondering, which of these gifts have you received as written in your scripture?



Also proof that you can actually do these things will be appreciated. I do believe that if your god is real you should be able to perform at least one of the things listed here.

Over to you

I appreciate your write - up! It expresses the desire of many and why some are leaving the church: they want reality and not forms and routines!

However, note that the Gifts listed above are not some magical/psychic powers that are exercised independent of the Giver/Enabler hence wanting a display for its own sake may never happen.

11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

But if you are keen on knowing, I will refer you to contemporary church history;a book like God's Generals by Roberts Liardon will satisfy you.

peppyluv02:
One of the ladies he succeeded in converting has this to say about the Bible....

But that spoke about a denomination, not the Bible?!

lexiconkabir:
pls post the verse lets see, if it is between a man and his spouse, remember songs of solomon, chapter8 verse 1 to 3

The setting of the entire book is a discourse between a man and his spouse, a man of his spouse and a woman of her spouse.
Songs of Solomon 4:9,10
Thou hast ravished my heart, my sister, my spouse; thou hast ravished my heart with one of thy eyes, with one chain of thy neck.

How fair is thy love, my sister, my spouse! how much better is thy love than wine! and the smell of thy ointments than all spices!

Songs of Solomon 8:7 describes the real love that holds a marriage together.(as opposed to the lust and infatuation that characterises porn and suggestive literature.
Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it: if a man would give all the substance of his house for love, it would utterly be contemned.
Songs of Solomon 8:7