₦airaland Forum

ShaheedBinAliyu:
This Verse was quoted from the most reliable Bible... which is Aramaic Bible... Aramaic is Jesus language... this verse will aslo be quoted from KJV





Revelation 22 :: 9





Aramaic Bible

9. And he said to me, "Look, no! I am your
companion, and [of] your brothers the prophets,
and of those who uphold the manifestations of
this book. Worship Allaha."


KJV Bible

9 : but he said to me, you must not do that, i am your fellow servant with you and your fellow brethren of prophets and those who keeps the words of this book. "Worship God "











cc:: Front Page .. Save lives from hell

That passage was spoken by an Angel, not the Lord Jesus Christ! (Angels are not to be worshiped)

Revelation 22:8
And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

But when John saw the Lord, he fell down (in worship , awe and obeisance) and was not restrained.

yazach:
And Joseph is not a biblical prophet of God

Neither Jesus nor prophets before him were ever Christian (fact)

Joseph was not a prophet! Was Nebuchadnezzar a prophet because he had a prophetic dream and heard the voice of angels like Joseph did?

Since you are passionate about this, give us a SINGLE person from credible sources that had a kid as a wife in the Bible?
Straining at words and diligently searching for one that seem to agree with your bias is no way to seek for truth; a self-defeating procedure that lacks credibility (whereby minority becomes majority) is thereby illustrated! That you had to seek the aid of extra-biblical, spurrious sources to attempt to corrupt one person, overplays your hand and real intention.
As regards one man and wife, the OT allowed for the hardness of the heart of those in that dispensation.
As regards Christ, it is not possible for the Master to be a disciple of Himself!!!

And David who you are trying to equate with Jesus said:

The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand,
until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psalm 110:1

And Jesus Himself said:
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 8:58

For better understanding consider:
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John17:5
Notice that He didnt say, "glory which I had FROM Thee" as would have been said by a creature!

And John tells us accentuating the above:
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

These corrects the error highlighted.

yazach:
The translation for “women children” in the verse is very misleading and it has been deliberately translated that way to deceive readers.

deceive which readers? Give ONE example of an OT/NT saint or person who married a pre-teen and substantiate that from the Scripture. I am willing to learn.

As regards women children, look at the direct transliteration below:

3605 [e] 18
wə·ḵōl 18
וְכֹל֙ 18
But all 18
Noun 18

2945 [e]
haṭ·ṭap̄
הַטַּ֣ף
children
Noun
802 [e]
ban·nā·šîm,
בַּנָּשִׁ֔ים
the women
Noun
834 [e]
’ă·šer
אֲשֶׁ֥ר
that
Prt
3808 [e]
lō-
לֹא־
not
Adv
3045 [e]
yā·ḏə·‘ū
יָדְע֖וּ
do known
Verb
4904 [e]
miš·kaḇ
מִשְׁכַּ֣ב
by lying
Noun
2145 [e]
zā·ḵār;
זָכָ֑ר
a man
Noun
2421 [e]
ha·ḥă·yū
הַחֲי֖וּ
keep alive
Verb


.


lā·ḵem.
לָכֶֽם׃
to

Ibid.


Furthermore, the story of Naaman the syrian, gives us an insight into what those little girls taken captive (by even other nations ) did with them:

2 Kings 5:2,3
2 At this time Aramean raiders had invaded the land of Israel, and among their captives was a young girl who had been given to Naaman’s wife as a maid. 3 One day the girl said to her mistress, “I wish my master would go to see the prophet in Samaria. He would heal him of his leprosy.”

Whither your allegation of child marriage? In fact, I am yet to see any from Syria, Israel, Canaan, Babylon etc in the Bible that had a pre-teen wife.

vooks:
Man of God,
I have chapters in pdf from this site.
http://www.heavensfamily.org/ss/spiritual_warfare

I humbly request you bear with me and work with these as I look for the full book.

Stay blessed

Thanks a lot. God bless you too!

yazach:
Christians believe that the Bible has nothing to say with regards to the condoning and approving of paedophilia. However, when we look into the Bible, we find passages that do approve of it. One of the most prominent examples is of Numbers 31.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18 (KJV)

This is one of the most disturbing set of passages that I have come across in the Bible. These passages basically state to Moses’s soldiers that it’s ‘OK’ to have sex with “women children” that are obtained in war. The translation for “women children” is very misleading and it has been deliberately translated that way to deceive readers. In fact when we look at the Hebrew words used in the verse, it just says female “children”, “little ones”.

Three accurate translations which clearly show that the passage only speaks about ‘female children’ are as follows:

Jubilee Bible 2000 – “But all the female children that have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.” – Numbers 31:18

Webster’s Bible – “Translation But all the female children that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” – Numbers 31:18

Living Bible (TLB) – “Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.” – Numbers 31:18

Since it’s clear that Numbers 31:18 speaks about female children and not women, what does “keep alive for yourselves” mean? Of course the verse gave permission to Moses’s soldiers to marry those female children. However, don’t take my word for it, let’s see what Christian Bible commentaries say on the verse.

BIBLE COMMENTARIES

Whedon’s Commentary on the Bible:

Verse 17-18.
The little ones — The object of the command to kill every male was to exterminate the whole nation, the cup of whose iniquity was full. For the righteousness of the mode see Joshua 6:21, note. Every woman who might possibly have been engaged in the licentious worship of Peor was to share the fate of the male children, to preserve Israel from all taint of that abomination. The pure maidens could be incorporated into Israel without peril to the national religion. Joshua 6:23-25, notes. They could not be treated as concubines, since the law against fornication was in full force, (Deuteronomy 22:25-29,) but they could be lawfully married to their captors (Deuteronomy 21:10-14). [1]



Peter Pett’s Commentary on the Bible:

Numbers 31:18
‘But all the women-children, who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.’ But the young women children were a different matter. They could be taken in marriage or as servants and would expect to accept the religion of their new husbands or masters. They would gradually be merged into Israel. Compare Deuteronomy 21:10-14. They would not feel the same responsibility for blood vengeance which was mainly incumbent on the males.[2]



NIV: The New American Commentary – An Exegetical And Theological Exposition of Holy Scripture:

… Only the young girls would be allowed to live so that they may be taken as wives or slaves by Israelite men, according to the principles of holy war (Deut 20:13-14; 21:10-14). By this they could be brought under the umbrella of the covenant community of faith. [3]



John Dummelow’s Commentary on the Bible:

13-18. The male children are put to death in order that the race of idolaters may be extirpated. The older women are also slain as having been the prime cause of the apostasy, and likely to lead the people astray at a future time. The women-children, or young females, are spared, and are taken as slaves or wives, being probably adopted into the Hebrew nation as proselytes: cp. Deuteronomy 21:10-14. For the reason of such wholesale slaughter see Numbers 33:55; Deuteronomy 20:17-18; Joshua 23:13 and on Numbers 25:16-18. [4]



The above Bible commentaries quite clearly state that, “keep alive for yourselves” means those female children were to be married off to grown adult Israelite men. There is no mention anywhere in the commentaries that the girls have to grow up and hit puberty before they get married. I brought up the latter point, because some desperate missionaries claim that the girls had to grow up before a marriage took place. Numbers 31:18 in the Bible shows that Moses’s soldiers were commanded to marry pre-pubescent girls. This means that the holiest text of Christianity supports marrying and having sex with pre-pubescent girls. This is concrete proof that the Bible endorses pedophilia. As we have read in Numbers 31:18 and in the Bible commentaries, they all state that marriage took place straight away.

In fact, in the Biblical commentaries already mentioned, they all refer to Deuteronomy 21:10-14 as evidence that the marriage took place straight away within a month. Let’s read the verse:

Deuteronomy 21:10-14 Good News Translation (GNT) – “When the Lord your God gives you victory in battle and you take prisoners, 11 you may see among them a beautiful woman that you like and want to marry. 12 Take her to your home, where she will shave her head, cut her fingernails, 13 and change her clothes. She is to stay in your home and mourn for her parents for a month; after that, you may marry her. 14 Later, if you no longer want her, you are to let her go free. Since you forced her to have intercourse with you, you cannot treat her as a slave and sell her.”

In the part where it says beautiful “woman”, the Hebrew word ‘ishshah’ is translated as ‘woman’ and it is also translated as “female” (when we consult Jubilee Bible and Webster’s Bible for Numbers 31:18, both of them translate the Hebrew word ‘Ishashah’ as ‘female’).

Reading Deuteronomy 21:10-14 we get a clear picture that YHWH commands its soldiers that when they go out in war and they see a beautiful female, and the soldier is attracted to her, he can “TAKE” the female and force her to marry him after one month. The word “take” is in of itself evidence that the females were taken without their consent i.e., they were forced into a marriage that the female didn’t consent to. In verse 13 to 14 it goes further and states, that if the soldier were to not desire the female any-more he may let her go as he wishes because “you forced her to have intercourse with you”.

The period in which the soldier cannot marry her is within a one month period of mourning. After that period the soldier can do what he wishes to the female, as the verse clearly states.

References:

[1] Whedon’s Commentary on the Bible
[2] Peter Pett’s Commentary on the Bible
[3] NIV: The New American Commentary – An Exegetical And Theological Exposition of Holy Scripture: Numbers, [Copyright 2000 – B& H Publishing Group] By R. Dennis Cole, volume 3b, page 499
[4] John Dummelow’s Commentary on the Bible

wə·rā·’î·ṯā 11
וְרָאִיתָ֙ 11
And see 11
Verb 11
7633 [e]
baš·šiḇ·yāh,
בַּשִּׁבְיָ֔ה
among the captives
Noun


､

802 [e]
[size=13pt]’ê·šeṯ
אֵ֖שֶׁת
a women
Noun
3303 [e]
[/b]yə·p̄aṯ-
[/size]יְפַת־
beautiful
Adj
8389 [e]
tō·’ar;
תֹּ֑אַר
a beautiful
Noun
2836 [e]
wə·ḥā·šaq·tā
וְחָשַׁקְתָּ֣
and have a desire
Verb

ḇāh,
בָ֔הּ
in
Prep
3947 [e]
wə·lā·qaḥ·tā
וְלָקַחְתָּ֥
that you would have
Verb

lə·ḵā
לְךָ֖
to her
Prep
–
802 [e]
lə·’iš·šāh.
לְאִשָּֽׁה׃
to your

etc

’[size=13pt][b]ê·šeṯ other uses in the Bible , the first mention being Eve:[/size]

HEB: מִן־ הָֽאָדָ֖ם לְאִשָּׁ֑ה וַיְבִאֶ֖הָ אֶל־
NAS: fashioned into a woman the rib
KJV: made he a woman, and brought
INT: from the man A woman and brought to
Genesis 2:21

Genesis 2:23
HEB: לְזֹאת֙ יִקָּרֵ֣א אִשָּׁ֔ה כִּ֥י מֵאִ֖ישׁ
NAS: She shall be called Woman, Because
KJV: shall be called Woman, because she
INT: she shall be called Woman Because of Man

Genesis 2:24
HEB: אִמּ֑וֹ וְדָבַ֣ק בְּאִשְׁתּ֔וֹ וְהָי֖וּ לְבָשָׂ֥ר
NAS: and be joined to his wife; and they shall become
KJV: and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one
INT: and his mother and be joined to his wife shall become flesh

Genesis 2:25
HEB: עֲרוּמִּ֔ים הָֽאָדָ֖ם וְאִשְׁתּ֑וֹ וְלֹ֖א יִתְבֹּשָֽׁשׁוּ׃
NAS: And the man and his wife were both
KJV: the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
INT: naked and the man and his wife and were not ashamed

Genesis 3:1
HEB: וַיֹּ֙אמֶר֙ אֶל־ הָ֣אִשָּׁ֔ה אַ֚ף כִּֽי־
NAS: And he said to the woman, Indeed,
KJV: And he said unto the woman, Yea,
INT: said to the woman Yea for

Genesis 3:2
HEB: וַתֹּ֥אמֶר הָֽאִשָּׁ֖ה אֶל־ הַנָּחָ֑שׁ
NAS: The woman said to the serpent,
KJV: And the woman said unto the serpent,
INT: said the woman to the serpent

Genesis 3:4
HEB: הַנָּחָ֖שׁ אֶל־ הָֽאִשָּׁ֑ה לֹֽא־ מ֖וֹת
NAS: said to the woman, You surely
KJV: said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely
INT: the serpent to the woman not surely

Genesis 3:6
HEB: וַתֵּ֣רֶא הָֽאִשָּׁ֡ה כִּ֣י טוֹב֩
NAS: When the woman saw that the tree
KJV: And when the woman saw that the tree
INT: saw the woman for was good

Genesis 3:8
HEB: וַיִּתְחַבֵּ֨א הָֽאָדָ֜ם וְאִשְׁתּ֗וֹ מִפְּנֵי֙ יְהוָ֣ה
NAS: and the man and his wife hid
KJV: and Adam and his wife hid themselves
INT: hid and the man and his wife the presence of the LORD

Genesis 3:12
HEB: וַיֹּ֖אמֶר הָֽאָדָ֑ם הָֽאִשָּׁה֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר נָתַ֣תָּה
NAS: The man said, The woman whom You gave
KJV: said, The woman whom thou gavest
INT: said the man the woman whom gave

Genesis 3:13
HEB: יְהוָ֧ה אֱלֹהִ֛ים לָאִשָּׁ֖ה מַה־ זֹּ֣את
NAS: God said to the woman, What is this
KJV: said unto the woman, What [is] this [that] thou hast done?
INT: the LORD God to the woman What hast

Genesis 3:13
HEB: עָשִׂ֑ית וַתֹּ֙אמֶר֙ הָֽאִשָּׁ֔ה הַנָּחָ֥שׁ הִשִּׁיאַ֖נִי
NAS: you have done? And the woman said,
KJV: What [is] this [that] thou hast done? And the woman said,
INT: done said to the woman the serpent me

Genesis 3:15
HEB: בֵּֽינְךָ֙ וּבֵ֣ין הָֽאִשָּׁ֔ה וּבֵ֥ין זַרְעֲךָ֖
NAS: Between you and the woman, And between
KJV: enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed
INT: Between and between and the woman Between your seed

Genesis 3:16
HEB: אֶֽל־ הָאִשָּׁ֣ה אָמַ֗ר הַרְבָּ֤ה
NAS: To the woman He said, I will greatly
KJV: Unto the woman he said, I will greatly
INT: to the woman said will greatly

Genesis 3:17
HEB: שָׁמַעְתָּ֮ לְק֣וֹל אִשְׁתֶּךָ֒ וַתֹּ֙אכַל֙ מִן־
NAS: to the voice of your wife, and have eaten
KJV: unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten
INT: have listened to the voice of your wife eaten from

Genesis 3:20
HEB: הָֽאָדָ֛ם שֵׁ֥ם אִשְׁתּ֖וֹ חַוָּ֑ה כִּ֛י
NAS: called his wife's name
KJV: And Adam called his wife's name Eve;
INT: now the man name his wife's Eve because

Genesis 3:21
HEB: אֱלֹהִ֜ים לְאָדָ֧ם וּלְאִשְׁתּ֛וֹ כָּתְנ֥וֹת ע֖וֹר
NAS: for Adam and his wife, and clothed
KJV: Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD
INT: God Adam and his wife garments of skin

Genesis 4:1
HEB: אֶת־ חַוָּ֣ה אִשְׁתּ֑וֹ וַתַּ֙הַר֙ וַתֵּ֣לֶד
NAS: had relations with his wife Eve,
KJV: Eve his wife; and she conceived,
INT: had Eve his wife conceived and gave

Genesis 4:17
HEB: קַ֙יִן֙ אֶת־ אִשְׁתּ֔וֹ וַתַּ֖הַר וַתֵּ֣לֶד
NAS: had relations with his wife and she conceived,
KJV: knew his wife; and she conceived,
INT: had Cain his wife conceived and gave

Genesis 4:19
HEB: לֶ֖מֶךְ שְׁתֵּ֣י נָשִׁ֑ים שֵׁ֤ם הָֽאַחַת֙
NAS: to himself two wives: the name
KJV: unto him two wives: the name
INT: Lamech two wives the name of the one

Genesis 4:23
HEB: וַיֹּ֨אמֶר לֶ֜מֶךְ לְנָשָׁ֗יו עָדָ֤ה וְצִלָּה֙
NAS: said to his wives, Adah
KJV: said unto his wives, Adah
INT: said Lamech to his wives Adah and Zillah

Genesis 4:23
HEB: שְׁמַ֣עַן קוֹלִ֔י נְשֵׁ֣י לֶ֔מֶךְ הַאְזֵ֖נָּה
NAS: to my voice, You wives of Lamech,
KJV: my voice; ye wives of Lamech,
INT: Listen to my voice wives of Lamech Give

Genesis 4:25
HEB: עוֹד֙ אֶת־ אִשְׁתּ֔וֹ וַתֵּ֣לֶד בֵּ֔ן
NAS: had relations with his wife again;
KJV: knew his wife again;
INT: Adam again his wife gave to a son

Genesis 6:2
HEB: וַיִּקְח֤וּ לָהֶם֙ נָשִׁ֔ים מִכֹּ֖ל אֲשֶׁ֥ר
NAS: and they took wives for themselves, whomever
KJV: and they took them wives of all which they chose.
INT: they took wives all manner they

Genesis 6:18
HEB: אַתָּ֕ה וּבָנֶ֛יךָ וְאִשְׁתְּךָ֥ וּנְשֵֽׁי־ בָנֶ֖יךָ
NAS: you and your sons and your wife, and your sons'
KJV: and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons'
INT: thou and your sons' and your wife wives and your sons'

Genesis 6:18
HEB: וּבָנֶ֛יךָ וְאִשְׁתְּךָ֥ וּנְשֵֽׁי־ בָנֶ֖יךָ אִתָּֽךְ׃
NAS: and your sons' wives with you.
KJV: and thy sons' wives with thee.
INT: and your sons' and your wife wives and your sons' and of

Genesis 7:2
HEB: שִׁבְעָ֖ה אִ֣ישׁ וְאִשְׁתּ֑וֹ וּמִן־ הַבְּהֵמָ֡ה
NAS: a male and his female; and of the animals
KJV: the male and his female: and of beasts
INT: sevens A male and his female and of the animals

Genesis 7:2
HEB: שְׁנַ֖יִם אִ֥ישׁ וְאִשְׁתּֽוֹ׃
NAS: two, a male and his female;
KJV: by two, the male and his female.
INT: two A male and his female

Genesis 7:7
HEB: נֹ֗חַ וּ֠בָנָיו וְאִשְׁתּ֧וֹ וּנְשֵֽׁי־ בָנָ֛יו
NAS: and his sons and his wife and his sons'
KJV: and his sons, and his wife, and his sons'
INT: Noah and his sons and his wife wives and his sons'

Genesis 7:7
HEB: וּ֠בָנָיו וְאִשְׁתּ֧וֹ וּנְשֵֽׁי־ בָנָ֛יו אִתּ֖וֹ
NAS: and his sons' wives with him entered
KJV: and his sons' wives with him, into the ark,
INT: and his sons and his wife wives and his sons' for

Genesis 7:13
HEB: בְּנֵי־ נֹ֑חַ וְאֵ֣שֶׁת נֹ֗חַ וּשְׁלֹ֧שֶׁת
NAS: and Noah's wife and the three
KJV: and Noah's wife, and the three
INT: the sons of Noah wife and Noah's and the three

Genesis 7:13
HEB: נֹ֗חַ וּשְׁלֹ֧שֶׁת נְשֵֽׁי־ בָנָ֛יו אִתָּ֖ם
NAS: and the three wives of his sons
KJV: and the three wives of his sons
INT: and Noah's and the three wives of his sons for

Genesis 8:16
HEB: הַתֵּבָ֑ה אַתָּ֕ה וְאִשְׁתְּךָ֛ וּבָנֶ֥יךָ וּנְשֵֽׁי־
NAS: out of the ark, you and your wife and your sons
KJV: of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons,
INT: of the ark you and your wife and your sons wives

Genesis 8:16
HEB: וְאִשְׁתְּךָ֛ וּבָנֶ֥יךָ וּנְשֵֽׁי־ בָנֶ֖יךָ אִתָּֽךְ׃
NAS: and your sons' wives with you.
KJV: and thy sons' wives with thee.
INT: and your wife and your sons wives and your sons' for

etc
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/strongs_802.htm


Now, was Eve a pre-pubescent girl or a woman?

How many men had pre-teens as kids in the Bible that can be established beyond every shadow of doubt?

Apparently the word is used for female only when animals are the reference.

Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Job, Solomon, Hosea, all had wives and I am yet to see ANYTHING that remotely implies that their wives were kids!

And why will Moses command something contrary to Deuteronomy? That clearly states that women, not kid-girls, be married?

vooks:
I will look for it, just for you man of God

Thanks a lot; will be looking forward to it.

vooks:
For those who have ears and are not too lazy to read

“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘”Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?” And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness” (Matt. 7:22-23).”

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxrT0F-mwJf1c3VJTTNXdFRjMjg

First Class! This book is excellent I must say, just finished the Introduction. Please do you have the link to the Myths on Spiritual Warfare by the same author?

malvisguy212:
Scholar8200 God bless you .
@ op.


The following Qur’anic verse records Jesus as saying:
Surah 19:33: Peace on me the day I
was born, and the day I die, and the
day I shall be raised alive! (Pickthall)


Surah 19:33 clearly proves that he died BEFORE his ascension to heaven, many Muslim apologists attempt to respond by saying that this is a future event. They try to explain away this Qur’anic verse by saying that Jesus will die when he comes back the second time and then be raised back to life. Well, what evidence do they provide to make such an outrageous claim? None! But, this interpretation poses a problem for Muslim scholars because the very same phrase is also expressed just a few verses earlier in the Qur’an regarding John the Baptist (Yahya). We can read an almost identical passage about John the Baptist in Surah 19:15. Note the similarity in the wordings:

Surah 19:15: And peace on him on
the day he was born, and on the day
he dies, and on the day he is raised
to life. (Shakir)

In case of John the Baptist, Muslims have no trouble recognizing the fact that this verse is speaking about his immediate death.And they also have no problem in understanding that it is only after his death that he will be raised to life in Paradise on the Day of Resurrection. The chronological sequence of event is clearly understood and correctly applied here. Yet, in the case of Jesus, we find Muslims having Jesus ascending to God before dying. They deliberately distort the chronological sequence of event just to avoid contradictions in the quran. If muslims believe Jesus did not die, then John did not die also.

Amen, God bless you too.

fabre4:
Don't mind the OP that is why the said western education is sin cause they don't have brain to read and understand

He must have been in a hurry else careful study of these issues would have shown that there was no need for the thread and the original source was wrong!

PastorAIO:
Yet he pronounces a curse on those who submit to circumcision after accepting Christ's provision.

2Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.
Galatian Chapter 5.

Pastor, realise that the whole issue started when in Acts 15 some people came saying," except you are circumcised, you cannot be saved" from Galatians & 2 Corinthians we can gather that those people went a notch higher in persecuting and slandering the Christ alone crew. Hence Paul was saying whoever sought to be justified by circumcision and avoid persecution have fallen from grace. Why? They have been swayed in seeking acceptance with God on another basis. Also, Paul did not curse them. Rather, he pointed out that if you sought to be accepted with God through a part of the Law, then you come under the curse of the other parts which neither they nor their fathers succeeded in keeping.

Furthermore the statistics speak overwhelmingly against this notion. The world is full of people who have 'accepted Christ's provision' yet I see no Fulfilment of righteousness in them. I see the most morally abject people.

Furthermore the passage refers to people who have 'accepted Christ's provision' even to the point of casting out demons in his name, yet they are condemned for lawlessness.

This is an indictment to ministries and ministers today that belittle and excuse sin in the lives of believers! Rather than lead the flock to higher realms of grace and Victory by the Spirit's indwelling, they give them a hell-conceived definition of grace that assures them an entrance through the Pearly gates though they travel on the Broad way!!!


Besides, the fact that some ministries today are purveyors of greasy, corrupted grace (they want NUMBERS) has produced and is still producing decisions(not transformed converts) and these proselytes are shielded from issues such as daily cross bearing, reality of persecution, need to move from present level of grace and faith to higher realms etc Unfortunately the plumetting reading culture is such that those proselytes will not read their Bibles for themselves! The result? Shallow, peripheral professions that lack substance or trace of reality.

However, there are still true converts today.

PastorAIO:
It is interesting that in this passage the very thing that people are condemned for is LAWLESSNESS. The very thing that Pauline christianity extols.

Could it be that the Gospel of Matthew is written as a response to Pauline christianity. After all we know that the Gospel was originally written in hebrew and so written for Jews, while Pauline christianity caught the ear of the gentiles.

Without a doubt it is addressing other so called christians who claim great things in the name of Jesus.

What Paul's writing condemns is seeking salvation by keeping the Law while ignoring Christ's Provision!

It was the same Paul that wrote that the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in us when, after believing on Christ, we walk in the Spirit! He further went on to state that if we do not walk in the Spirit (thus having the righteousness of the Law fulfilled in us), we will die.

We dont get saved by trying to keep the Law, we receive Grace to walk according to God's righteousness (as shown in the moral law) when we are saved by faith.

Paul's emphasis was faith (in Christ) which worketh by love and love is the greatest commandment in, and fulfillment of the law!

Whither your claim of Paul extolling lawlessness?

mubarakopeyemi:
dont try to get this twisted. I have not the strength for long talks.
did u see this part?

1- Notice how satan referred to Psalm 91 regarding the protection of Jesus.

Apart from the devil, WHO ELSE , either Apostle or Disciple through an Epistle, made that application? Now was the devil here working to establish Truth?!!

2- Notice how Jesus confirmed that Psalm 91 was indeed speaking about him by saying "the Scriptures also say..." (Luke 4:12 and Matthew 4:7).

And you call that a confirmation Rather Jesus countered that twisted scripture (which carefully omitted some parts about him being trampled) with Truth! Simple.

3- As we will see in the points below, Psalm 91 is not just concerned with preventing Christ or the Messiah from striking his feet against the ground. This is the least point the chapter is concerned with. The chapter concentrated heavily on:......


go back and read that part well
thanks.

That Psalm is no Messianic Psalm bro.

@op,
Psalm 91 clearly and indisputably confirms that Jesus never got crucified!

It is, first of all, important to know that Psalm 91 is referenced more than once in the New Testament for Jesus Christ.

Referenced only by the devil for his purposes , not Truth's!

So we know for certainty that Psalm 91 is referring to the coming Messiah in the Bible:

Luke 4:10-12
10 For the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect and guard you.
11 And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’”
12 Jesus responded, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’”

Matthew 4:5-10
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, Jerusalem, to the highest point of the Temple,
6 and said, “If you are the Son of God, jump off! For the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect you. And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’”
7 Jesus responded, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’”
8 Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
9 “I will give it all to you,” he said, “if you will kneel down and worship me.”
10 “Get out of here, Satan,” Jesus told him. “For the Scriptures say, ‘You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’”

This was a satanic misuse of the Word; nothing in that Psalm suggests its being a Messianic Psalm. If you need a Messianic Psalm see this:
For dogs have compassed me:
the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me:
they pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I may tell all my bones:
they look and stare upon me.
18 They part my garments among them,
and cast lots upon my vesture.
19 But be not thou far from me, O Lord:
O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword;
my darling from the power of the dog.
Psalm 22:16-20

Compare the highlighted to Matthew 27:35
35[b] And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.[/b]

But why take sides with anything and anyone that seem to underscore what you think even if that one was the devil or the pharisee?

His life will be prolonged (extended) and he will live to even see his offspring (Isaiah 53:10 and Psalm 91:16, which by the way contradict Jesus never got married and had children.

His life will overpower death (Isaiah 53:12).

Important Note: Psalm 91 is speaking as a number of Prophecies that WILL take place. Notice how the verses are speak of future events that WILL TAKE PLACE. Never once throughout the entire New Testament were the Angels sent to save Jesus from striking his foot against a rock. This, again, clearly proves that the NT is indeed false and corrupt.

That's because Psalm 91 was not referring to Christ!
What? The only personality that quoted it to Christ was the devil for sinister purposes.In NO other part of the Bible is that Psalm linked to Him!

With long life will I satisfy him and show him my salvation
Psalm 91:16
Jesus was crucified at the age of 33 (no long life that!) and besides, He is Salvation hence there is NO way that this applies to Him!!!

His life will be prolonged (extended) and he will live to even see his offspring (Isaiah 53:10 and Psalm 91:16, which by the way contradict Jesus never got married and had children.

This is what happens when haste and bias supervise your project!

1. Psalm 91:16 has no link with Isaiah 53:12

2. Isaiah 53 first speaks about the fact that the Messiah will be killed and that without a descendant
(Unjustly condemned,
he was led away.
No one cared that he died without descendants,
that his life was cut short in midstream.[c]
But he was struck down
for the rebellion of my people.
9 He had done no wrong
and had never deceived anyone.
But he was buried like a criminal;
he was put in a rich man’s grave.Isaiah 53:8,9)

3. The portion that speaks of seed refers to those that will receive Him and thus receive power to become the sons of God through Him
12 But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God. John 1:12

lexiconkabir:
They are somewhat similar, thats why Muhammad(arabic) is somewhat similar to Mahammad(hebrew) like the op established. Click SEMITIC LANGUAGES, its a wikipedia site, check the 6th paragraph.

I thought you condemned this book vehemently!!!

Anyway, it will be wrong to assume that that was referring to Muhammed especially since there is a case of similarity of both languages and difference in meanings. Besides, it wont be correct to approximate the mention of Lebanon to imply that the reference is an Arab man! Why? There are other references in the same book comparing the bride to Lebanon. eg SOS 4:11 and SOS 7:4 These are metaphors. How about the metaphors used in describing both spouse at various places, using other nations?

Now Op to start with, is Hebrew = Arabic?

Pr0ton:
If people outside Israel today can relate positively why can't they? There will always be a Thomas too, even in Israel.

Then does it not further accentuate the fact that it actually happened, afterall they do not deny it as an event in their history?

How about the evidence of instantaneous transformation of lives experienced by those who repented and believed (just as Jesus said it will be)? It will be wrong to claim those were brainwashed! Why? I have no records of people being forced and harangued (tools for brainwashing) to believe the Gospel! Some heard it presented just once in all simplicity, believed and were transformed!

Pr0ton:
That is not always applicable.. Since a book that says 'dragons exist' can't be held true merely by looking into it.

Israel still exists today. Do they relate (positively or negatively) with this historical event?

chuna1985:
Pontius Pilate does not work for Hebrew elders. The Hebrew elders are the slaves of the Roman empire.

They were sent there by Pilate at the REQUEST (not command) of the elders and pharisees. He could have declined! They made an appeal and it was granted.

chuna1985:
what where armed soldiers doing in Jesus's tomb?

They were sent there by Pilate at the request of the elders and pharisees to secure the tomb.
62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
63 saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.
65 Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can.
66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.
Matthew 27:62-66

Who were the watch? the soldiers

11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done. 12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
Matthew 28:11-12

menesheh:
I assumed that but main beef here is that you should stop copy and paste.

Well no man is an island of knowledge. I believe the main contention should be that what is quoted is relevant to the topic at hand. That's by the way though.

menesheh:
Copy, paste will not do you any good because you on your own didn't read the copy and paste material yourself.

Prove the highlighted!!!
(That is the problem - sweeping generalisations!!!)

Pr0ton:
Found in no other place than the Bible.

Let this be our Keynote:

Jewish scholars have paid more attention to the person of Y'shua (Jesus) in the last hundred years than they have in the previous nineteen hundred. None deny his Jewishness. After all, Jesus was born to a Jewish mother, lived in Israel and taught a group of Jewish disciples. He also celebrated Jewish holidays. Modern Jewish theologian and rabbi, Pinchas Lapide, notes:

The love of Jesus and the academic interest in him and his impact were implanted in me by Jewish teachers like Joseph Klausner, for whom Jesus was the most Jewish of all Jews," Martin Buber, who perceived him as "his great brother," and Leo Baeck, the last luminary of the German school of rabbis, who in the year 1938 at the time of the Nazi Kristallnacht managed to write of him: "We see before us a man who according to all the signs of his personality discloses the Jewish character, in whom the purity and worth of Judaism is so specially and so clearly revealed.1


Meaning He once walked on the earth just as the Bible records; we cannot be more versed in the Jewish history than the jews themselves who affirmed the above!

Now concerning the resurrection these are the theories the first being the original one given by the elders and is still believed by some today!!!

1. STOLEN BY THE DISCIPLES

One popular theory about the resurrection, which is even mentioned in the New Testament itself as a charge by Jesus' detractors, is that the disciples stole the body. This provides a convenient excuse not to pursue the issue further, but it ignores the facts.

Fact one: Had the body been stolen by his followers, all that would be needed to disprove the disciples' claim would be to produce the body. No body has ever been produced.

Fact two: There were Roman guards at the site of the tomb. How, then could any of Jesus' followers have stolen his body?

Fact three: There was a giant stone covering the tomb, which would have taken several people to move. The guards could not have overlooked such an operation.

Fact four: Historically, we know that the early followers of Y'shua were persecuted for their belief. They were offered two options: renounce their belief in the resurrection or die. It seems unlikely that, were the disciples to have stolen the body, they would have all been ready to die rather than confess their deeds. It is true that people die everyday for beliefs which are not true. But these are lies which they fully believe to be true. How often do people die for what they know to be a fabrication?

Fact five: Whatever else can be said about the original followers of Y'shua, they themselves certainly believed that Y'shua rose from the dead. They did not steal the body.

2. SWOON THEORY

This position states that Y'shua went to the cross and that his hands and feet were pierced, but that he did not actually die. Rather, he merely fainted. Then, after being placed in a damp tomb-bleeding and without food or water for three days-- Y'shua was revived and was healed. He then somehow rolled away the stone, got past the guards and went on to tell others that he had indeed risen from the dead.

One offshoot of this theory came from the late Hugh Schoenfeld in his best selling book, The Passover Plot. Schoenfeld believed that it was Y'shua's plan to pretend to be the Messiah and that he attempted to fake his death by being given a drug (which would have made him swoon, giving the appearance of death). This plan was thwarted when a Roman soldier struck a spear into his side, which caused his death. The body was then hidden and when Y'shua's followers saw "an unknown young man," they mistook him for their risen Messiah.

Schoenfeld gave no reason as to why he accepted much of the New Testament as true and why he regarded some portions as suspect. Perhaps he would have been better off denying that Y'shua ever existed. At least then he would not have been promoting a theory which takes more of a leap of faith than the New Testament account itself. But he knew, as all skeptics do, that the New Testament cannot be dismissed lightly. It is a cohesive, coherent and convincing book.

3. ONE OF MANY RESURRECTIONS

While Hugh Schoenfeld accepted most of the New Testament as reliable history, only to take a detour around the resurrection, another modern Jewish scholar presents an equally interesting hypothesis. Pinchas Lapide is an orthodox Jewish scholar who has a very unorthodox view of the resurrection of Y'shua. He went so far as to declare,

I accept the resurrection of Easter Sunday not as an invention of the community of disciples, but as an historical event.6

Lapide examined the New Testament and concluded that the recorded events are too rooted in history for there to be any major revisions or deceptions involved in the writing. He believes that Y'shua physically rose from the dead. Amazingly, Lapide falls short of recognizing the implications of this truth for his own life. In his book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Lapide regards Y'shua as a type of role model for gentiles to prepare them for the coming of the Jewish Messiah. To reach this viewpoint, Lapide had to reject the very same documents which were the basis for his belief in Y'shua's resurrection in the first place. Indeed, the New Testament mentions on virtually every page the fact that Y'shua is the promised Messiah, the one whose coming was foretold by Moses and the Jewish prophets. There is no consistency or logic in Lapide's argument.

[Two people discussing the resurrection]

Evidence from Changed Lives

One response to all these "theories" is to say, "Who's to say what is true? It's all a matter of speculation." After all, one can reason, even in this century we are presented with mysteries to which we probably won't get answers--What ever happened to Amelia Earhardt? Who killed Kennedy? Was there a conspiracy in the death of Martin Luther King?

To some people, the controversy over these events is proof that we cannot possibly know for sure what happened concerning an incident which occurred almost two millennia ago.

However, the evidence for the resurrection of Y'shua goes far beyond the discussion of source documents and historical records. In fact, evidence is still being presented today as individuals are experiencing the changed life which is the result of that resurrection.

Y'shua was not a mere victim of a mob. Nor was his death an accident. It was the very purpose of his mission. He gave up his life as an atonement for sin. His words mean nothing apart from this final action. The "good news" is that the Messiah willingly stood in our place and, by dying, took the penalty which rightfully belongs to each one of us. But he didn't stay dead. By rising from the grave he defeated the power of sin and death and enables individuals to have a new relationship with God. And it is this power-- the power of the resurrection--which is available to anyone who believes. This power has been changing lives (of both Jews and gentiles) since the first century.

One Jewish man who knew of this life-changing experience was Alfred Edersheim, the British scholar and author of the last century. His book, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, was originally published in the 1880's and is still considered one of the most authoritative sources on the subject. His Jewish view of Y'shua pre-dated the more recent wave of Jewish scholars who have been increasingly curious about the New Testament. To conclude his chapter on the resurrection he writes,

The importance of all this can not be adequately expressed in words. A dead Christ might have been a Teacher and Wonder-worker, and remembered and loved as such. But only a risen and Living Christ could be the Saviour, the Life, and the Life-Giver--and as such preached to all men. And of this most blessed truth we have the fullest and most unquestionable evidence. 7

There is only one reason why a Jew should believe in Y'shua. It is the same reason why a gentile should believe. It has nothing to do with convenience or social standing. Nor does it have anything to do with Y'shua's good moral teachings. The only reason anyone should be for Y'shua is because of who he is and what he has done:

It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Messiah Y'shua came into the world to save sinners.

1 Timothy 1:15

The claims of Y'shua stand alone, even when compared with the sayings of other religious leaders. And to punctuate his claims there is an historical event which stands as a challenge. The New Testament does not present the resurrection of Y'shua as merely part of a creed that must be followed by insiders. It is presented to all people as an historical fact, and there are only two possible responses to it. Either it happened or it didn't.

What do you think? Will your conclusion be determined by the reflex of tradition? Will you dismiss the issue because of twentieth century pre-suppositions? Or will you choose to explore an ancient tomb--where all too few have dared to look
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/v11-n06/didhe


Take particular notice that the lie given by the elders is still being bandied about today!

lexiconkabir:
@Scholar8200, just the person I wanted to see , anyway I am yet to see how those verses you quoted joins the truine as ONE like 1john5:7 did.

Consider the Words of Christ in Matthew 28:19 and John 17:21



Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:19

Name is singular but reference is to Three Personalities.



21 that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 17:21

Here Jesus explicitly stated the manner of His Oneness with the Father and describes it as the Glory He had before the World began. John 17:5.

If we were to go to a court , the latter will stand as an express evidence while the latter will stand as an implied evidence both of which are admissible for our purposes because they neither contradict each other or 1 John 5:7!

lexiconkabir:
@Scholar8200, just the person I wanted to see , anyway I am yet to see how those verses you quoted joins the truine as ONE like 1john5:7 did.

Consider the Words of Christ in Matthew 28:19 and John 17:21



Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:19

Name is singular but reference is to Three Personalities.



21 that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 17:21

Here Jesus explicitly stated the manner of His Oneness with the Father and describes it as the Glory He had before the World began. John 17:5.
Why did He not mention the Spirit? He was praying here, not giving a teaching to aid man's understanding.

If we were to go to a court before an indifferent judge , the latter will stand as an express evidence while the latter will stand as an implied evidence both of which are admissible for our purposes because they neither contradict each other or 1 John 5:7!

lexiconkabir:
Trinity?! the only verse of the bible that explicitly joins the truine(father, son and holyspirit) as one is 1john5:7, however this verse is an insertion by the church(Roman catholics) which was erroneously adapted by the protestants, this verse was first seen in the 3rd edition of the erasmus bible in the 15th century, this verse is never found in any of the old greek manuscripts, the Roman catholics had no scriptural evidence to back up their polytheistic belief(three gods) hence this verse(1john5:7) was inserted into the bible. salam!

Here's how we test it- Does it contradict other portions of Scripture? eg;

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:19

It did not say names.

Was this inserted too?

How about:

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them

Genesis 1:26,27

Lest some one say He was referring to the Angels when He said US, let such remember that in NO part of scripture are Angels described as partners in Creation! Besides, if that referred to Angels, at least the next verse should have been the subjects (Angels) carrying out the command! Lest another claim that was a royal plural, let such realise that if that is the case. what use was the soliloquism recorded?

Finally.
21 that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 17:21

No, it has not been corrupted.

ShaheedBinAliyu:
No be paul wrote acts? If it's true he saw Jesus. .there should be another chapter in bible written by another person to support his claim

'no be paul wrote acts'! It was Luke that did. Besides, Peter (and the other disciples) acknowledged and respected the Apostleship of Paul

11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
13 saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
14 And if this come to the governor’s ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.
Matthew 28:11-15

If He never rose, there would never have been a need for this conspiracy! The elders knew the tomb was empty hence they had to act fast to stop more people from believing on Him!
Besides, the disciples were broken, frightened and holed up in a room in Jerusalem for fear of their lives, hence it is ridiculous to assume 11 men in that condition will overcome a group of fully armed soldiers, roll away a very heavy stone and steal the Body!!!

malvisguy212:
I love this bro. God bless you more.

Amen! God bless you too.

OLAADEGBU:
What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
Matthew 28:19

It does not say names.


Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Isaiah 6:8

It does not say, "whom shall We send" neither did it say, 'will go for Me"


26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them

Genesis 1:26,27

Lest some one say He was referring to the Angels when He said US, let such remember that in NO part of scripture are Angels described as partners in Creation! Besides, if that referred to Angels, at least the next verse should have been the subjects (Angels) carrying out the command!

Finally.
21 that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 17:21

mubarakopeyemi:
In Matthew 5:22 Jesus said this
NIV
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

this means that anyone who calls someone a fool shall be in fire of hell.

Forward to Mathew 23:17 Jesus said this:
NIV
You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?

Jesus has said that anyone who calls someone a fool shall be in fire of hell. Well apparently he also called a group of people blind fools.

Jesus is in the danger of fire of hell. I didn't say it. Jesus himself said it. Over to u.

Note the following:
1. Angry with his brother due to a personal offence or hurt suffered,
2. Use of derogatory words (Raca) due to personal offence or hurt suffered,
3. Use of the word,''fool'' due to a personal offence or hurt suffered.

Now I am yet to see Jesus call ANYONE a fool because:
1. They falsely accused Him,
2. They slapped Him or used a reed on His head.
3. They called Him a possessed mad man (John 10:20) to His face
4 They made Him pay tribute money which He was free from
4. They nailed Him on the Cross

Inspite of these that were offences to His Person, He said, "Father forgive them"

Oh to be like Thee!!!

Now Jesus spoke only the Words given by the Father, and right from the OT, He identified who the fools were; why not in the NT?