₦airaland Forum

frosbel2:
…"Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. "But the greatest among you shall be your servant. 12"Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.…" - Matthew 23:11

Matthew 20:26
Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,

Matthew 23:10
Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.

Mark 9:35
Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, "Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all."

Mark 10:43
Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,

Luke 22:26
But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.

Op, kindly shed light on these:



17 Obey your spiritual leaders and submit to them [continually recognizing their authority over you], for they are constantly keeping watch over your souls and guarding your spiritual welfare, as men who will have to render an account [of their trust]. [Do your part to] let them do this with gladness and not with sighing and groaning, for that would not be profitable to you [either].

7 Remember your leaders and superiors in authority [for it was they] who brought to you the Word of God. Observe attentively and consider their manner of living (the outcome of their well-spent lives) and imitate their faith ([h]their conviction that God exists and is the Creator and Ruler of all things, the Provider and Bestower of eternal salvation through Christ, and their [i]leaning of the entire human personality on God in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness).
Hebrews 13:17,7


12 Now also we beseech you, brethren, get to know those who labor among you [recognize them for what they are, acknowledge and appreciate and respect them all]—your leaders who are over you in the Lord and those who warn and kindly reprove and exhort you.
13 And hold them in very high and most affectionate esteem in [intelligent and sympathetic] appreciation of their work. Be at peace among yourselves.
1 Thessalonians 5:12,13

5solas:
Bring up any protestant teaching that is not consistent with scripture.

How does this challenge relate with my post?

Ubenedictus:
where were d protestant in d first 1600yrs of christianity

The tenor of the post I replied suggests to me that we weigh the impact based not on timing but Truths discovered, circulated and published!

tartar9:
if anything catholics have far more claim over xtianity.

That's not correct! Do you have proof?

sonmvayina:
The Jesus that was deified in 325 AD, belonged to a group called the Essenes...members of that group live out side of the city and rarely talk to other groups, In that same group.there are those called the Nazarenes, these group marry and talk with other groups like the Pharisees and Sadducee...They where the ones who thought the messiah was going to come from one of them. the followers..of Jesus where never called Christians, but Nazarenes...Jesus grew up in Egypt and must have learnt some of their philosophy from there, and when he did come back to Palestine..people where amazed at his eloquence and maybe magic also which he acquired from Egypt

1. Essenes were mystics, vegetarians, ascetics that had their economy based on labor in the fields. In contrast, Jesus was never a farmer, lived among the people, partook of the passover (and the lamb that was killed),etc Ministered publicly and lived among the people.
Conclusion: He was not a member of the sect of the Essenes!

2. Jesus did not grow up in Egypt! The period between Jesus birth and Herod's death which was spent in Egypt was roughly 3/4 years! As soon as Herod died, they left Egypt:
19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,
20 saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child’s life. 21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel
Matthew 2:19-21
I wonder how a young child of 3/4yrs learnt philosophy and magic! Besides Luke 2:42,51, showed that He was at Nazareth with them at the age of twelve thus refuting the lie that He learnt philosophy and magic in Egypt!!!

The other part not responded to are likewise erroneous!
Peter was one of the Apostles no more, no less!!!

20 and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, [size=13pt]Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone[/size];
Ephesians 2:20

Did Peter recognise the apostleship of Paul?

a) 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you
2 Peter 3:15

b) 9 and when James, Cephas (Peter), and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Galatians 2:9

Since you are just about taking off I invite you to read about late B. H. Clendennen. His testimony will challenge you to play your role in recovering the prodigal church, far better than a seminary would!

shyna01:
wonder where you've been?

I have always been around !

trustman:
[size=6pt][/size]


Like I said earlier, because of unlimited atonement, sin is removed as the basis for eternal condemnation.

That is not the Bible sir!
Revelations 21:8,27, 1 Corinth 6:9-11, Ephesians 5:5-7, 1 John 5:16 etc refutes your position

winner01:
Abiola sank a ship importing Bibles into Nigeria. As good as he might av seemed he was a fanatic and could have been the worst thing to happen to Nigeria if he had become president.

Is there a proof to this serious allegation? Were all men on board? If yes there must be some reference in history that proves this!

Without going too far, even Scripture confirms he wasnt! Bible reveals that he was based in Jerusalem even after the church was scattered due to the persecution that arose when Stephen was killed:

And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judæa and Samaria, except the apostles
Acts 8:1

And even if they had to go to visit certain places, they always," returned to Jerusalem, ..." Acts 8:25.

trustman:
I had given examples of display of grace from the Bible. The typical example being:
- The Good Samaritan Lk. 10:30-35

Could you give another?
The man that was attacked in that parable had no choice in accepting or rejecting the good samaritan and no offer was made, hence we cannot use this alone as an illustration! Otherwise, for Mark 16: 15,16 is a superfluous statement meaning the whole world is automatically saved!!!

I believe the prodigal son illustrates it better! A prodigal world is dead as long as it is severed from the Father and the only hope is to humble itself and, believing in the Father's mercy, take the only Way (Jesus is the Way) back to the Father! And when he gets to the Father's house, he doesnt remain in tattered clothes of sin; he exchanges the old for the new and that newness is visible to all! At that point, the thought of returning to the riotous life in the far country becomes repulsive even to him!!! That is Grace. But if he, on the day he was welcomed home begins to think," I can always return to the far country; the Father will always accept me back!" We will agree that something is wrong!

The emphasis in grace is on the giver. 
Grace as favour means an act of kindness.

Please substantiate that definition from scripture! Meanwhile the Gift must be received or rejected by the receiver! Else why the command to go into all the world with the Gospel of grace?

The Good Samaritan did not expect the man he helped to pay him back in some way for the favour he did him.

Indeed! May I remind you that this was a parable to illustrate , "love thy neighbour as thyself" hence there is a limit to which we can eke out Divine-human relationship principles!

The man helped in the story cannot reverse the grace extended to him.

He had no choice then hence this does not illustrate salvation through grace! Grace that brings salvation must be received by faith and repentance (Mark 1:15) to be effectual in the receiver. Afterwards, the receiver stands in the grace by faith 2 Corinth 1:24b; and must persevers in that faith to the end!

God's grace is TOTALLY dependent on Him - the Giver rather than the receiver. God's grace is totally based on His integrity.

But the Giver cannot force His Gift on the receiver?! The receiver needs to humble himself in true repentance and , by faith, receive the Gift! When this is done, he does not remain the same.

5solas:
Not "no problem" , take up the challenge.

Which?

5solas:
You are simply playing to the gallery and trying to whip up sentiments. What would have helped your cause is to bring up any of their teaching that is not consistent with scripture.
If you are a protestant, then I must say your post was spiteful and smirks of ingratitude to Luther.

No problem.

Another company may soon be going under thanks to litigation expenses and damages!

Thank God for the Reformers and their selfless effort to preserve the Truth but we must note the following:

1. Their efforts was to reform not the faith of Christ, but the Roman catholic church;

2. While they were instrumental in making public that which the RCC kept private, they did not author any book of the Bible;

3. It will be wrong to assume that their writings rank with All Scripture: Inspired by God!

4. Just like the christian literatures we have today, their writings indeed contain portions of truth from the Word and commentaries that was skewed in the direction of their personal convictions

5. As a result we can only hold to all that the Bible says and the interpretation thereof as the Spirit reveals and weigh same on the balance that it does not contradict any other passage, God's promises, power, pattern of dealing with men, and purpose.

6. For example, Luther was instrumental to the recovery of the Truth: Justification by faith; however, we will go into error if we follow this mistake he wrote:

Luther now proposed seven measures of “sharp mercy” that German princes could take against Jews: (1) burn their schools and synagogues; (2) transfer Jews to community settlements; (3) confiscate all Jewish literature, which was blasphemous; (4) prohibit rabbis to teach, on pain of death; (5) deny Jews safe-conduct, so as to prevent the spread of Judaism; (6) appropriate their wealth and use it to support converts and to prevent the lewd practice of usury; (7) assign Jews to manual labor as a form of penance...Luther now thought what he had accused Catholics of thinking in 1523: Jews were dogs. “We are at fault for not slaying them,” he fumed shortly before his death.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/1993/issue39/3938.html?start=2

Was Luther saying this out of hatred? NO. Rather it was due to faulty understanding:

Yet rabbinic teaching was madness and blindness that blasphemed Christ, Mary, and the Holy Trinity. Luther could not “have any fellowship or patience with obstinate [Jewish] blasphemers and those who defame this dear Savior.” Blasphemy was a civil crime. To allow it to continue, Luther feared, meant Christians would share in the guilt for it.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/1993/issue39/3938.html?start=1


Any christian knows this is wrong. Even Paul who was stoned etc by these same Jews was passionate about their salvation to the point of wishing himself accursed for their sakes! Any believer who follows this teaching today and does not retrace his steps will die and go to hell as a criminal!

Conclusion? Let's weigh the contents of both schools of thought from a scriptural perspective!

We cannot write off all technology! Man was ordained to subdue the earth remember?

starlingslimnet:
If this is what you mean am in perfect harmony with it..

Only brother you should know the distinction between holiness and Righteousness. Though both are required as said by Christ.

Alright!

starlingslimnet:
If I get you right you are saying there is a need for Holiness

Yes! Why? It is the proof of our faith and the workings of Grace!

Bear with this:

Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many
Hebrews 12:14,15

But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.
Romans 6:22

ABDULADINO:
God preserves His elect, but He does not make them persevere in faith. Faith may be weak and even lost at times by the elect, yet God is faithful.His faith is the Basis of their preservation

Throw more light on the highlighted; you appear to be contradicting yourself there! Or are you saying He preserves them as long as they continue in the faith just as 2 Peter 1:10 exhorts them to?

..i have given you examples of Abraham, Lot, samson and Paul..Like someone earlier told you it is not by quoting chunk of scriptures. It is by understanding it. To say sin will take away eternal life is a satanic lie that is no where found in scriptures.

We must quote scriptures if we wont be deceived, sin brings separation from God, the Source of Life. That is why James 1:15 (another scripture ) was written to believers:
Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
James 1:15

Note the highlighted!

There is the definite possiblity of God's elect backsliding into sin and having their faith overthrown but not losing eternal life.

This is," a satanic lie that is no where found in scriptures." Now does this assure Ananias, Sapphira, Hymenaeus, Philetus, Judas Iscariot etc of eternal life? What then does such 'overcome'? Your statement encourages possessionof a form of godliness but denying the power thereof!
Was Paul then mistaken when he wrote thus:
18 For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.
19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things.
Philippians 3:18-20
Was he referring to sinners here?NO. he was referring to believers in Philippi who as it were, were following the statement you made!

What? Jesus Christ is coming for a church without spot or wrinkle and what are you advocating here?!!!

Still mixing Law and grace. The believer is urged to serve NOT to keep salvation, because it is a secure possession as a GIFT from God( 2 cor 5:14).

Very very strange!
Jude 21
21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

How do we keep ourselves in the love of God? By obeying His commandments John 15:10

Also see Hebrews 5:9
and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
He that claims to believe on Him as Lord but does not obey Him deceives himself!

To fall away is not to fall from salvation but from accurate bible doctrine. Faith in your faith is more profane( Romans 9:15-16)

Quite ridiculous statement that one! To fall according to that context is to fall away from grace wherein you were standing by faith!
.

Fallen from grace isn't talking about earning or maintaining your salvation through some conformity of the Law. Paul makes it clear in Galatians 5:4 that those who seek to be justified by the Law have "fallen from grace" and have been severed from Christ. You better trust God's promises and believe that Jesus died for all your sins, regardless of YOUR ABILITY to live up to the standards of the Law.

The righteous standard of the Law is fulfilled in those who believe and believing brings grace by which they walk in the Spirit. If they fail to do this, death follows!

13 For[b] if [/b]you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:13

The use of IF means that after believing we have a choice to make, (a condition to fulfill) each having its repercussion for either continuance in Life or death!

If you have been reading my posts, you will understand nothing there suggests saved by good works but saved evidenced by newness of life and good works and failure to continue therein indicates a loss of the faith by which we are saved, that works by love!

Then Moses would have been in hell then since he disobeyed God and couldn't enter the land of promise.

God's Word stands sure! Moses later sought God (Deut 3:23-27) and I believe his disobedience was forgiven but the earthly repercussion of his sin was to be sustained just like David repented after Nathan confronted him and was forgiven but the earthly repercussion of his sin was sustained!

Jesus never said he would blot out the names of those who fall... He said OVERCOME...we are overcomers and have been given authority to "overcome all the power of the enemy.

Indeed you missed the context:
Revelations 3:4,5
4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.

(At the time this was said those people were overcoming the defilement prevalent in that assembly)

5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels

Meaning overcoming and being victorious by faith is essential if our names will not be blotted out!

starlingslimnet:
They are called to repent from their ubelief that Jesus is Christ and believe in him and thus receive the Holy Spirit who is Salvation himself

Meaning we have a role to play in appropriating that Salvation thus provided and our preservation rests on the basis of faith!

work of Faith are as expressed from vs 3-9 are mainly the teachings of Christ and not the commandments note vs 8 "The knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ" for more understanding on God's righteousness see this thread www.nairaland.com/2551735/fundamentals-teachings-christ-every-christain

The sermon on the mount are also part of Christ's teachings too! And true grace enables us, by faith, to obey!

Exodus 32:33
33 The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book. Sin against the Son of man will be forgiven. God said if a wicked man( one who reject Christ and His teachings) turn from his work (unbelief) I will forgive that man.
To interpret a Scripture you must have understanding of all Scriptures.

Yes! Forgiveness is dependent on repentance or turning from sin and unbelief. Meaning after we have been forgiven and our names are in the Book, we cannot toy with sin and expect that our names will not be blotted out. And if after turning from unbelief he remains wicked in word and deed, then his faith is vain!

We cannot discuss Bible without quoting copiously therefrom else we fall into deception saying what we think is written!

starlingslimnet:
Mixing something up: Salvation And Backsliding; When you sin you are backsliding and that as the Scripture imply can be forgiven but denying Jesus is not the Christ cannot be forgiven because that is Sin against the Holy Spirit.

Can you back up your statements from the Word? Matthew 12:32 refutes your statement there:

Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Provided he repents. But let's get back to the point of the thread.

You lose your Salvation when you deny Jesus is the Christ and you gain Salvation by confessing Jesus is the Christ.

You get saved when you BELIEVE with the heart and confess. Now that faith gives you access to grace Romans 5:1-3, and grace empowers you to live a life pleasing to God.
Now when we have the profession without the evidence of the power of Grace in our lives then we are deceiving ourselves . That is when Christ is denied by our works as Titus 1:16'

PastorOluT:
How is it now that sin and the lifestyle has become the other of the day even among Christians, while we claim to have grace and live in the dispensation which covers our sins?

Yes it is true we live in the dispensation of grace and all our sins had been paid for and covered by Christ Jesus, but continuing in sin because of the dispensation we are in is total misconstrueing of grace and very graven.

Grace rather is the empowerment to live the supernatural life which is above sin, we don't continue to sin because we have grace, but rather we have grace which gives us the enablement not to continue in sin. Sin is supposed to be frowned at and rebuked by us all in this dispensation, even as the early Christians stood and spoke against it with great tenacity. Grace is supposed to make us live differently and not conform to the pattern of this world, but in as much as there is no difference in our lives in contrast with others, then we are yet to encounter Christ or grace.

We cannot continue in sin and expect His grace to speak for us because grace and sin do not mix, it is either you have grace (Christ) and live above sin or you continue in sin as a sign of graceless and Christ-less life.

Flee from sin if you want to live!

Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

1 Timothy 5:20

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein.

Romans 6:1-2

Stay blessed and remain rapturable

God bless you pastor!

ABDULADINO:
Lol, open your eyes. That scripture is not talking about conditional salvation based upon man using inherent ability to perform conditions for it. Typical arminianism.

Then explain why Jesus and the Apostles called men to repent and believe the Gospel. Also explain why Jesus said He that believes shall be saved and he that believes not shall be damned. Not forgetting the passage 2 Peter 1:10
So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen. Do these things, and you will never fall away.
The work there mentioned is a work of faith! else that faith is vain/dead!

The Holy Spirit's work in applying salvation through regeneration is effectual and sure, for without Him we can do nothing.

without our initial and persevering faith, He can do nothing in/for us as regards salvation:

Mark 6:5
And because of their unbelief, he couldn't do any miracles among them except to place his hands on a few sick people and heal them.

Likewise the miracle of the New Birth can only be revealed and preserved in us by Faith. Remember Jesus kept saying," thy faith has saved thee"

1 Peter 1:5
5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Both are needed if we will be preserved. The One is constant because God never changes, the other (highlighted red) must be renewed daily because man being a free moral agent will not be kept against his will.

Paul was the chief of sinners,God apprehended him and he never lost his salvation..his famous mantraa was " I can do ALL things through CHRIST WHO STRENGHTENS ME" ( phil 4:13).

Christ strengthens me while I cleave to Him by faith! Paul also said to some of his converts, "you are fallen from grace" and to others, "by faith you stand" and to another group, " let him that thinks he stands TAKE HEED lest he FALL" meaning he realised that we had a role of faith to play in all diligence!

As regards the OT saints, as far back as the time of Moses here is what God said:

Exodus 32:33
33 The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.

Meaning his name was there before it was blotted out!

Jesus voiced the same thing in Revelation 3:4,5 regarding those in Sardis who were living holy lives that He would not blot out their names:

4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.

5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

Implying that if they fail to continue that way, their names will be blotted out!!!

starlingslimnet:
Quoting Scripture is not the issue understanding them is but am not in the mood of explaining Scriptures tonight. Christ said whoever denies me before men I will deny before my Father and the Holy Angels and whoever acknowledges me before men I will acknowledge before my Father and His Holy angels. These are the words of Christ saying only one way will you loose your Salvation denying the Son of Man that you don't believe he is the Christ. If you believe it's by work and not by Faith so be it.

No problem. For record purposes:
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God but in works they deny Him...

ABDULADINO:
The elect cannot be lost nor separated from the purpose of God in salvation( John 6:38-39, Romans 8:28-39).

And what was the purpose of the command to give all diligence to make your calling and election sure in 2 Peter 1:10?

starlingslimnet:
As far as Salvation is concerned it's Verbal.You confess with your mouth not with your works so you deny with your mouth and not your work.

Do read the references quoted. When you've done so, decide whose words/Words supersedes. You can also see 2 Corinth 13:5 and 2 Peter 1: 9,5-8

starlingslimnet:
If that is it then I shall say in simple explanatory languages: One can loose salvation if he refute his belief in Christ.This alone is the only way you cab lose your salvation; Denying Jesus is the Christ.

And such denial is not necessarily verbal but can be seen in works! See Titus 1:16 and 2 Timothy 3:5

trustman:
A true understanding of grace should elicit a great appreciation of God, and awe and reverence for Him. Not the opposite.

Very correct.

God gave Christ as a sin-offering to the world. 
Is there going to be a time when God will say something like  'I'm tired of mankind. I'm withdrawing my gift'?

God never changes but man does. God will never withdraw His Gift but man can withdraw from faith! The prodigal son left the father's house of his own accord and as long as he was away, he was counted dead!

If God did so much for the man when he was 'dead' will He do any less for the believer in Christ?

As long as that believer cleaves to Him with purpose of heart!

Our focus therefore should be on God's viewpoint. Grace is ALL about what God did. Man only responds to it and contributes nothing to it.

Rather we should be balanced in our outlook. True we cannot add to Christ's finished work of redemption, however we must RECEIVE and REMAIN therein BY FAITH and continue in the latter else such faith is dead!

Can man 'unrespond' to his initial response to salvation and then become 'unsaved'?

If we fail to watch and examine ourselves, give all diligence to make our calling and election sure, keeping in mind the Gospel, our faith will be vain!
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Peter 1:8,9

The implication of the highlighted is that such a one reverts back to the state he was when his eyes were blinded by the god of this world! Do read the whole chapter to understand the context.

Some pertinent questions:
1. When a person becomes 'born again' does anything happen to him to change his spiritual status?
2. Is that change in status 'real' ?
3. If real, is that change temporary or permanent ?
4. When a Christian sins does his initial spiritual status change? If yes, to what? Can he be restored?
5. Can a person be saved more than once? So if anything can make a believer 'unsaved' (since it is the unsaved that will end up in hell) doesn't he have to be 'saved' again to be right with God?
6. What is the equation of salvation - faith alone in Christ alone or faith in Christ plus some additional things ( living a sin-free life or not renouncing Christ)? In other words does man add to Christ's work to make it complete or effectual?

1.The Life is revealed in such a person and he is illuminated all by his faith in Christ.

2. The Newness of Life is made possible by his faith in God's provision. As long as the faith by which he has access to that Grace is intact and increases more and more, he is sure. If otherwise, he may become a reprobate claiming a salvation by faith but denying the power thereof, having a name that he lives but is dead! Revelation 3:1-5

3. That depends on the believer. The Provision is permanent, but man having accessed same by faith must continue in the faith lest he be cut off.
Hence the repeated exhortation to stand fast, hold fast, take heed, resist the enemy etc all needed if a man will continue in that state and increase therein!

4. From James 1:15, we see that sin brings forth death! How many sins did Ananias commit before he was struck? Now don't say they were not truly saved as Peter's rebuke makes it clear that he yielded to temptation!

5. If Jesus' continual command to the churches in Revelations 2 & 3 to repent, and 1 John 2:1,2 is anything to go by, it is clear that when a believer sins, such is expected to repent and take every necessary step to avoid a repetition! Repentance goes together with sorrow, burden and concern:
See how Paul described it in 2 Corinth 7:10-11
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

(The highlighted forecloses any trite, God forgive me" and life goes on. Besides, we deceive ourselves when we 'repent' with a mindset of,'God knows I am weak and this will happen again)

11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

6. Equation of salvation: God's Provision x (1,0)____=(Salvation, Damnation)
a) 1= saving faith (backed with repentance)
b) 0=mental assent with no appreciation of moral destitution & need of Saviour

Equation of Preservation: God's Power x (1,0)=(Secured, Cut off)
a) 1=active faith(backed by watchfulness, giving all diligence,resisting temptation, denying the flesh, endeavour to grow in Grace)
b) 0=passive hope (I have no role to play, God saved me and must keep me anyhow)

I have used '1' because we dont add to God's provision when we manifest these; rather we being free moral agents indicate our willingness to receive and continue in His Provision.

If man can do anything to add to God's work in saving him then salvation is not a GIFT of grace;

As a free moral agent, we must show our willingness to receive and continue therein day by day. (Jesus emphasized bearing the cross and following Him daily)

it is not 'unearned' or 'unmerited favour' and not dependent on the bounty and free heartedness of God. If man can do anything to add to or complete his salvation then it's not a FAVOUR! It's payment (at least in part) for the 'work' he did. He earned it in part. Therefore the glory belongs to both God and himself. But that would be blasphemous.

When you say grace is a Favour can you expantiate:

1. Do you mean its a permission or a Power?
2. Is it only a writing off of old debts with an invite to freely incur new ones or that and an empowerment to ensure that debt will be an exception that evokes concern, not a norm?
3. Establish your description of grace as favour from the Bible.
4. If possible give types from the OT and/or parables in the NT that illustrate your definition of Grace.

Adding man's work to the process of salvation is irreconcilable with the truth of the Word of God. That is why the scripture emphatically declares that:
"For BY GRACE you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the GIFT of God, NOT A RESULT OF WORKS, so that no one may boast". Ephesians 2:8&9

"he saved us, NOT BECAUSE OF WORKS done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy" Titus 2:5a

And after He saved us what was to be the result?
Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are God’s handiwork, [b]created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.[/b]

Meaning we are not saved by goodworks but after we are saved, good works must follow else our saving faith is vain. Besides the use of the word 'created' (not redeemed) shows that This Life in Christ was God original design for Adam and his before he fell. This answers the question of what was predestinated: not people but character!

"who saved us and called us to a holy calling, NOT BECAUSE OF OUR WORKS but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began," 2 Timothy 1:9

But the same epistle is garnished with warnings, commandments and exhortations for the minister who had been saved, likewise 1 Timothy!

Salvation is by faith ALONE in Christ ALONE. Man's 'works' (however they are classified) play no part in it from start to finish. 
Acts 13:39 "Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses."

He who believes but bears no fruit is cut off and burnt! We are saved by faith but," ...faith worketh by love": the Fruit of the Spirit and evidence that we truly believed and were born of the Spirit! Continuance in such faith to the end is the only guarantee of security!

Indeed He bore many crosses before the final one at calvary; Each day began with, "not My will but Thine be done"; And to those who will follow Him; He says,"take thy cross and follow Me!

Let us then with earnestness; live for Him while denying self; This being proof that we are His disciples; Following faithfully the Master's steps!

Many describe grace as unmerited favour but I am yet to find this definition impliedly or expressedly stated in the Bible!(IF YOU HAVE PLS SHOW US)

I fear this definition of grace being unmerited favour laid the foundation of people seeing it as God's ticket enabling us travel the broad way and enter through the strait gate!


To others, Grace is forgiveness of sins nothing more! Yes it includes but is not limited to forgiveness

If that was the case then why was Jesus being a task master when after forgiving the woman caught in adultery He told her to go and sin no more? Were His Words not Spirit and Life by which the woman was to be empowered for victory after forgiveness?

Why didnt He say," daughter, I know you are weak;any time you commit adultery just remind the Father of today and ask Him for forgiveness!!!


Grace is illustrated in:

1. God strengthening our hands such that we are enabled to break a bow of steel; Psalm 18:34
2. Enabling us to walk on water while we set our minds on Him (faith)
3. God Dwelling in us and walking in us
4. God working in us that which is well pleasing in His sight
5. Grace is God asking Moses to divide the red sea by stretching out his rod and when Moses complies God sent forth a blast to do the dividing
etc
6. Grace is God transforming a raving terrorist-like Saul and making him an apostle whose heart was so saturated with love that he wished God would banish him to hell if only that will lead to the salvation of his main persecutors - the Jews!

What then is Grace? Grace transcends forgiveness to an entitlement to partake of the Divine nature (2 Peter 1:3,4)

Grace is God's power working in us that which is well pleasing in His sight through our faith enabling us to live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world. It is defined as the Spirit quickening us such that, inspite of human frailty, we are empowered to live in holiness!

Romans 8:11

3 according as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2Peter 1:3,4

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Romans 8:11

The quickening here is not resurrection or healing but the work of the Spirit Who also mortifies the carnal nature vs 13.

While we are not saved by works but faith, Grace that comes in through faith manifests itself by works hence the Epistles commence with the revelation of salvation and ends with practical works of faith expected from those who profess faith lest they be deceived!


Besides, unlike the I-serve-you-you-bless-me mindset prevalent today, true service to God is only possible by His Grace tantamount to His Power and he that serves by this Provision does not pray or approach God with an air of entitlement but retains humility!

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear
Hebrews 12:28





Now let's consider facts about Grace.

Facts about Grace:
1. Grace can be received in vain by the receiver; 2 Corinth 6:1

2. Frustrated by the receiver; Galatians 2:21

3. Fallen from by he that once received it? Galatians 5:4

4. Turned to lasciviousness and an occasion to serve the flesh if careful heed is not taken; Jude 4

5. Grace works in tandem with our wills and willingness? Meaning grace will only enable to the degree to which we want to go 1 Corinth 15:10

6. Grace only becomes effectual in our lives when we believe on Him Romans 5:2 hence the need to hold fast and continue in the faith.

7. Actions that contradict the grace received by faith we possess are evidences that we are no longer in the faith 2 Corinth 13:5 no matter what affirmations, emotions and feelings we experience.

8. Grace goes beyond forgiveness of sins to empowerment to live victorious lives Titus 2:11-13 and that if this aspect of grace is missing, we may profess grace but we deceive ourselves and turn God's grace into lasciviousness !

9. Sequel to (8.), if we have no earnest hunger and thirst after righteousness and purity, and only rejoice in the forgiveness aspect of grace then we have a form of godliness while denying the power thereof: a recipe for becoming reprobates in the long run like the Church in Sardis Revelation 3:1-5!

10. He that truly received grace will hunger for more John 1:16; absence of this means the person has reverted back to what he was before encountering grace 2 Peter 1:9-11

11. Grace is provided as a free Gift never to be withdrawn; however each individual must access this grace by faith and since faith is not permanent till we get to Heaven, we must take heed and be watchful lest we draw back or fall from faith!

trustman:
1. Unlimited atonement removes sin as the basis for eternal condemnation. 

Faith in Christ becomes the key issue. 
Faith is a non-meritorious expression. 

2. A person who expresses faith in Christ is saved, regenerated, in union with Christ, in dwelt by the Spirit, given spiritual gifts, sealed, etc. 

All these are acts of God's grace. 

3. Can the saved then cancel out what God has accomplished?
Can sin or failure (e.g. Failure to continue to have faith) on the part of the saved be great enough to cancel God's grace? 
Or, will God reverse His grace provisions for the saved due to failure on the part of the saved?

4. Grace is all about UNMERITED FAVOUR. 
Grace has been defined as: "A favor done without expectation of return; absolute freeness of the lovingkindness of God to men finding its only motive in the bounty and free heartedness of the Giver; unearned and unmerited favor" (The Lexical Aid to the New Testament). 

5. God's grace is a favour done without the expectation of return. 
- The Good Samaritan Lk. 10:30-35
- The Ten Lepers Lk. 17:12-18

6. God's grace is an expression of his unfailing love; Is. 54:10a, Ps. 89:2, 1 Cor. 13:8. 

7. God's grace is solely on the basis of His integrity expressed in his bounty and freeheartedness - Lk. 11:13. 

8. God's grace is not dependent on man's MERIT - Romans 5:8

9. God's grace is TOTALLY dependent on Him - the Giver rather than the receiver. Man, on this side of eternity, will always be imperfect. Only God is perfect. God is not impressed by man's works - Isa. 64:6; God is only impressed with His own work. 

10. If man does ANYTHING to remain saved the he (man) 'earned' it. That would cancel out grace - Romans 11:6. Adding anything to grace nullifies grace. 

11. God's grace is unconditional; therefore it is not dependent on man but on God. God is unchanging and so His grace continues undiminished. God's grace does not swing like a pendulum. 

What God starts in grace, He continues in grace!

But do you realise that:
1. Grace can be received in vain by the receiver; 2 Corinth 6:1

2. Frustrated by the receiver; Galatians 2:21

3. Fallen from by he that once received it? Galatians 5:4

4. Turned to lasciviousness and an occasion to serve the flesh if careful heed is not taken; Jude 4

5. Grace works in tandem with our wills and willingness? 1 Corinth 15:10

6. Grace only becomes effectual in our lives when we believe on Him Romans 5:2 hence the need to hold fast and continue in the faith.

7. Actions that contradict the grace received by faith we possess are evidences that we are no longer in the faith 2 Corinth 13:5

8. Grace goes beyond forgiveness of sins to empowerment to live victorious lives Titus 2:11-13 and that if this aspect of grace is missing, we may profess grace but we deceive ourselves!

9. Sequel to (8.), if we have no earnest hunger and thirst after righteousness and purity, and only rejoice in the forgiveness aspect of grace then we have a form of godliness while denying the power thereof: a recipe for becoming reprobates!

paulGrundy:
Then why is JESUS not in upper case but MOHAMMED is?

Why do muslims have a special section and are protected from e-bashing, but christains are not?

Nigga get your facts right!

Alright, perhaps Mods also know that Jesus was more than a prophet!