₦airaland Forum

naijadeyhia:
Was the Holy spirit present there? If Yes where is the proof?

Did the Holy Spirit lay hands on Ananias and his wife and kill them? If Yes where is your proof?

If there was a cctv camera there at the time what would it have captured? A man dying by himself or a man strangled by a spirit?

Can your evidence hold up in a court of Law?

Did Peter touch them or did he only say words? Did Peters words contain words like die, death, kill, terminate? Etc

What if an autopsy had been done and discovered that Ananias and Sapphira died from shock and cardiac arrest?

Why not answer the questions yourself, since you think they are relevant to our discussion? Answer them and make your point(s), if you can.

It's wrong to say that Ananias and Sapphira didn't have parents, siblings, friends and kids because the bible doesn't mention them. I've included the rest of the biblical text in my original post so Nairaland members can judge the plausibility of my retelling of the story by themselves.

Mrlemuel:
Financial Responsibilty = Accepted, But They Were Nt Forced Or Asked To Sell It, But Still They Decided Not To Share It = Accepted. Lying To The Holy-spirit And Making A Mockery Of Him Is Not What Can Be Accepted.

Should people be killed for lying to Pastor Adeboye, Bishop Oyedepo, or Pastor Chris? That's essentially what the unfortunate couple did. Cruel.

naijadeyhia:
So the bible mentioned that Ananias and wife had children? Please show me where it was written.

I just added a footnote that explains why that is a safe assumption unless the bible said they were newlyweds or that Sapphira was barren.

So Peter used the holy spirit to kill Ananias? Also show me where it was written that it happened as you said it did.
... What if an autopsy had been done and discovered that Ananias and Sapphira died from shock and cardiac arrest?

That is how I understand the passage. Regardless of how you interpret the passage, it's clear that their death was a (cruel) divine punishment.

Pastor Adeboye's recent fatwa on "whoever introduces tribalism to RCCG", which is confusing because their list of leaders shows that tribalism has already been introduced to the church, reminded me of my concerns about the morality of the Ananias and Sapphira tale.

According to Acts 4:32 - Acts 5:11, "there were no needy persons among [the Christians]. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need." This was obviously not a sustainable way to do things because eventually, all the rich people in the church would have been reduced to poverty.

Anyway, "a man named Ananias, with the consent of his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property; with his wife’s knowledge, he kept back some of the proceeds, and brought only a part and laid it at the apostles’ feet" Now there's a lot to like about this couple. First, that they were willing to lose their property to help the needy in the church. Secondly, that they consulted with each other at every step of the way, and acted as one.

But this couple retained a sense of financial responsibility, so they decided to be keep some of the proceeds of the sale for themselves, to take care of their kids *, etc. However, God (or someone who knew what happened), told Peter what they had done, and Peter shamed them before the church by revealing their secret. So they cried, repented, were forgiven, and brought the rest of the money to the apostles that evening.

Haha. Just kidding. Peter, the guy who denied Jesus three times and was forgiven, had them killed by the power of the Holy Spirit of God, who is love. First he killed Ananias, and somehow nobody told his wife about his death. Then he killed Sapphira for backing up her husband.

Imagine the sorrow of the parents who brought up Ananias and Sapphira and instilled in them the values that made them successful enough to own property and pious enough to embrace Christianity. Imagine the inconsolable wailing of their kids * who would now have to rely on the charity of the same church that killed both of their parents, in order to survive. Consider the eternal burning in hell that awaited the couple.

How can anyone read this story and not be horrified by it? How can you open your mouth and say "God is love" after reading this chilling tale?

* It's reasonable to assume that they had kids unless they were just married or infertile, since there were no contraceptives in those days.

Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?” “Yes,” she said, “that is the price.”

Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”

At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

People should not be killed for lying about how much they sold their property. People should not be killed for talking about tribalism. Okay?

tegabetty:
My dear, be bold enough to walk out of that marriage. Before he instills his belief in your son.

His belief is part of what made him the person that the OP chose to marry, so it can't be that bad. Besides, the 1 Corinthians 7:13 says she must not divorce him: "if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him."

darkhorizon:
Haha i have caught oga seun reading. Oya u sef contribute your 2 cents

She should know that the reason her husband wins every argument is because he's right. It's easier to win arguments when you're right.

macof:
The man shall be rewarded in heaven for trusting God with the life of his wife. God is more important than a mere human life that he created, it is he that gives and he that takes

You don't have the right to waste a life that does not belong to you. If you want to waste your own life and orphan your children, go for it.

Why not talk to your pastors at Dunamis Abuja? They just might mention it on Sunday if you inform them.

Sorry. You should see a counselor urgently please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLJZaPMoZG4

I'm glad that most Christians are wise enough to ignore the parts of the bible that are simply not practical. Lukewarm Christians are the best.

Tenkobos:
God is love

Numbers 15:32-36: "While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses." That's not love.

Jesus is the truth.

Matt 16:28: "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." False!
John 16:23: "Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name." This is also clearly not true.

If a pastor wanted to stage a resurrection, he would gather as many witnesses as possible. He would ask someone to film it too. This is murder.

DemonInSiege:
miracle do exists,

in my area a pastor prayed for an amputee(boy) who had an accident, he grew another hand

If that actually happened it would have made the news, but I'll need you to provide the name of the pastor, church and amputee for investigation.

what killed their mother?

Would you support the idea of making the teaching of hatred and intolerance and violence illegal under Nigerian law regardless of the religion or sect of the teacher? And making it obligatory for those who witness such teachings to report them to the authorities?

AyaSunday:
A self created eternal babe? Oh! I see, you do believe in a god then Seun. You are not an atheist. To an atheist, the self created being or babe has to have a maker. Simple.

It's a joke, but a self-created babe is just as likely as the God of Abraham.

winner01:
Seun you know in your heart of hearts that christ did not teach violence. You should be more concerned about hundreds of lives lost to islam on a daily basis.

Accepted. The Jesus of Mark, Luke and Matthew was a pacifist.

naijadeyhia:
Families who go to church on sundays and also stay up on fridays do so based on their choice!

Christians who don't go to church on Sunday are usually pressured by other churchgoers, so it's not really a free choice. The Bible says not to forsake the assembly of the brethren also. However, going to church is not entirely bad. Praise worship with aggressive dancing is good for those who want to lose weight. Practical sermons e.g. the ones Pastor Bimbo Odukoya used to give are useful too.

Pastors do not choose spouses for anyone...

It happens in some churches. In others, pastors don't choose for you but they can refuse to conduct the marriage if your partner is not a member of the church, because they don't want to lose your tithes membership. The Bible doesn't say a man MUST find a wife by himself by the way.

Again I say that you have no moral foundation which is why you say masturbation and homosexuality is perfectly alright afterall homosexuality is also sexual attraction. If a man approaches you for sex seun would you consent to it? Especially if nobody sees you? Pls answer this.

Are you a repressed homosexual? It's typical for repressed homosexuals to see homosexuality everywhere even if no one said anything about it. I didn't say anything about homosexuality. I have no interest in it.

But yes, masturbation is normal. Ask any doctor. Also, it's normal to be moved by the sight of an attractive person. You are not committing adultery in your heart by responding to what you see. That's what I am saying.

The issue of witchcraft is based on the individual and location and not a general christian view that witches should be punished.

If you teach people that witches exist and could be responsible for their problems in life, it is inevitable that some people will be falsely accused of witchcraft and mistreated. False beliefs cause people to make bad decisions. An atheist could never think someone is a witch not to mention harming the person because he knows that there are no witches.

Families spend their Sundays in church instead of resting and enjoying each others' company. They also lose their sleep on Fridays.

Young men and women pick marital partners according to "God's will" as revealed by pastors whose main motivation is not their happiness.

Teens are made to feel crippling guilt over sexual attraction and masturbation, which are perfectly normal and healthy according to doctors.

Little children are tortured, and left to starve to death because their parents were told that they are witches, whereas witches do not exist.

So there's a strong case for anti-theism. People should not feel ashamed to be identified as "anti-theists" or even "militant atheists". The term "militant atheism" is misleading though. Richard Dawkins is no more militant than Pastor Adeboye or Eunice Elisha. He doesn't bear arms.

KingEbukaNaija:
The 2016 atheists ... would inflict harm on the religious if they had that discretion like the atheist leaders.

Lying for Jesus.

"Suffering" seems rather ambiguous here . Can you actually explain what you mean by suffering?

Poor people are asked to pay 10% of their income to their rich pastors. That's immoral. Those who can't afford to pay it are made to believe that they are robbing God and therefore bad things will happen to them. That's wicked. Others are forced or brainwashed to dress in black sacks that cover their entire bodies except their eyes while in public, even though they live in hot deserts. The sick are accused of not having faith etc.

Sveen:
What would you do to a religious extremist whom have murdered dozens of people if you get hold on one?

Lock him up so he can't murder any more people for the rest of his life. Deconvert him. Give him the chance to deconvert other extremists.

4kings:
The grave was filled up with sand. I don't think there would be a way to get out even if he wanted to.

I believe they would have noticed him struggling to escape at some point, and they would have made a conscious decision to continue.

KingEbukaNaija:
An aggressive atheist does these www.nairaland.com/3176513/atheist-murderers-past-present-murderous/

Bleep those communists, though that's the past and doesn't apply to 2016 atheists. Let's go back to the main topic.

I think there's a strong case to be made for anti-theism. Religious people are really suffering under the yoke of beliefs that are not true.

Anti-theists ... believe that “obvious fallacies in religion and belief should be aggressively addressed in some form or another.”

An aggressive muslim murders infidels. An aggressive christian murders abortion doctors. An aggressive atheist makes youtube videos.

Most of the religious practices of Islam come from the Hadiths. I don't know any muslim that practices on the basis of only what's in the Quran.

Slimshady11:
jst got a few questions,wat hapnd to all d homo erectus and others dat yielded d formation of d homo sapiens,Y can't we see dem in d caves or forests or even zoo,wat caused there extinction

The most likely reason is that we caused their extinction. We competed directly with them and they lost because we were more fit to survive. This article explains what probably happened based on the information we have: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-13874671

tempem:
But do you know that some scientists who supports evolution disagree with this. They said life can't come from non living material..

The way science works is that, if you make a claim, such as "life can't come from nonliving material", it is your responsibility to prove it.

lordnicklaus:
This seems like mutation and alteration of genetic instruction to me.

Creationists have tried to draw a distinction between what they call "microevolution" and "macroevolution". They accept that a wolf/dog can evolve into a different type of wolf/dog, but assert that a wolf/dog can't evolve into a coyote or a fox, since those are different species. This is contrary to the view of scientists, that evolution leads to the formation of new species gradually over time, as the changes accumulate.

If creationists were right, you would expect there to be a sharp dividing line between species. Animals within the same species would be able to mate with each other and produce viable offspring, while animals that are not in the same species would be 0% compatible. You would expect the sperm of one species to not be able to penetrate the eggs of a different species not to mention fertilizing it, not to mention carrying the mixed embryo to maturity and giving birth to it. Not to mention having it grow up to be a healthy animal with intermediate features.

But the reality is that the separation between species is fuzzy, which is consistent with evolution. Species that separated from each other very recently, such as dogs and dingoes and wolves, can mate freely with each other and produce viable offspring that can also mate with each other. Species that have been separated for longer periods, such as leopards and lions, can mate with each other, but their offspring are only partially fertile. Those that have been separated even longer, such as lions and tigers, or donkeys and horses can mate with each other and give birth to healthy offspring, but their offspring are mostly infertile. Some species can mate with each other but the embryos will be aborted. This fuzziness exactly what you would expect if evolution is true and species are formed by the slow accumulation of genetic differences.

If God created tigers and lions, donkeys and horses, wolves and jackals, etc as distinct species, why are they able to mate and make babies?

It always makes sense to have sex!^TM

What a stupid murder cover-up story. So the pastor made no effort to get out when he started suffocating? I don't buy it. They murdered him.

mnairaland:
Seun, this is the first time, I have asked to learn something from you. Surely, it this request is within your power to grant. If you are so busy do kindly give me a link to what you mean. Although I have never found myself in that situation but no knowledge is lost. I am ever willing to learn.

It's hard to describe it in detail; I'd have to discuss it with examples, I think.

cloudgoddess:
I understand your point Seun, but I personally think the word describes something really central to the human experience, that can & should totally exist without religion. Giving the word up to religion imo would just reaffirm the false perception that religion is the only means by which people can experience deep & profound enlightenment, compassion, wisdom, etc.

Sam Harris, an author & neuroscientist I'm a fan of, writes often on spirituality without religion & why he likes to keep the word. He wrote a short blog post about it in case you're curious. https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/a-plea-for-spirituality

I think this is the one thing that Sam Harris is wrong about, just as Richard Dawkins was wrong about rebranding atheists as "brights". A word means what people think it means. Words only change in meaning when a large number of people start using them differently for some reason. Atheists who are into "spirituality" just don't have those numbers. As someone noted earlier, the word is rooted in the word "spirit" which is something that does not exist as far as we know. Using the word "spirituality" to describe awe, compassion, wisdom, actually perpetuates the notion that those intellectual/emotional things are "spiritual" in the sense that most people understand the word, which isn't your goal.