₦airaland Forum

photoshoot:
The bolded...
Does it mean you don't eat it?

Of course I eat it. It's very tasty! The point I was trying to make is that yuckiness and evil are different things. If something grosses me out but it's not objectively harmful to anyone, all I need to ask for is that the people doing it should please try to not do it in my presence.

winner01:
What exactly do you mean by evidence, anything could serve as evidence my brother.

Somethinf like proof. Facta that support your beliefs

KingEbukasBlog:
Incest is sexual activity between family members or close relatives.

When I mean sexual activity , I mean consensual sexual activity just for the pleasure and not for procreation.

Rocreational incest is medically unadvicable due to the increased chance of genetically defective offspring, but since you're talking about, hmm, "safe incest", all I can say is that it's yucky and ewwy and gross, just like anal sex and the slaughter of chickens for food. Those 3 acts are in the same moral category in my view.

The objective was to protect your security and lives, not your feelings. For more information:
https://www.nairaland.com/1947119/let-us-more-tolerant-each

Millerz:
I've been a Christian since the day I was born. Maybe not fully devoted, but I spend quality time praying, fasting and reading the bible on my own. For the past 3yrs, i've experienced unimaginable pain, nothing has worked out for me, and my life seems to be going in circles. I've been praying to God, but havnt got results. Nothing appeals to me anymore. All I think about is suicide and I already got poison. My parents are the reason I haven't taken my life. They would be devastated cause I'm the last child.

You appear to have symptoms of depression. Pls see a psychiatrist. This is not an insult. They have treatments that will make you feel better.

Non-violent interactions.

This post is like asking "How can I trust my husband? He cheats on me and beats me daily but says he loves me. How can I trust him more?"

If I had my way, there would be no Islam section. It was created just to protect Nairaland members. I want different faiths to interact.

When I decided to post bold threads like "Why Faith Is Bad", "The Salvation Plan", and "Evidence For The Resurrection Of Jesus Christ", I knew there would be some negative consequences. However, it's not fair to say I'm using Nairaland to promote atheism on this basis, none of my these bold threads have been posted on the home page. These threads don't represent the official views of Nairaland Forum. I go out of my way to encourage the supermods to post pro-Christian topics on Sunday and pro-muslim topics on Friday because I think we need to make Nairaland members of every religion happy. Nairaland is not an atheist forum, it's a Nigerian forum and religious because we are religious.

But I felt a strong need to express myself boldly because I truly feel that the idea of believing in things by faith rather than by evidence is destroying Nigeria and humanity. This idea of "don't confuse me with the facts because my mind is already made up", is a very bad poison that is killing us all. Once you give lot of people the idea that it is virtuous to stubbornly cling to their beliefs by choice regardless of whether the evidence of those beliefs are strong or not, or whether they make sense or not, you end up with conflicts that simply cannot be resolved.

Take the problem of Israel in the Middle East. Setting up a Jewish state by seizing land in a location where they would be surrounded by hostile muslim countries was an incredibly dumb idea. Anyone with half a brain can see this. But if you had raised this obvious issue with the people who set up the Jewish state, they would have told you to shut up because that is the promised land. It doesn't matter if the land is in a desert and surrounded by enemies; it's the promised land. Many wars have been fought and many people have died because of this dumb idea. That's an example of the kind of damage that faith-based decision-making is doing to the world. It causes smart people to make terrible decisions.

Tellemall:
Are you evolving? Have you observed changes in yourself that shows signs of evolution? In the past 2000 years, have there been any changes, though minute, in the DNA or whatnot of humans?

All plants and animal species are constantly evolving, incliding humans, but individual plants and animals do not evolve. For proof of human evolution, have you noticed that Chinese people look different from Caucasians who also look different from Blacks and Red Indians and so on? Evolution explains that. Different groups of people were isolated from each other and evolved in different directions. Now that the world has become more connected, racism and language differences have helped to preserve the differences by discouraging inter-racial mating. How does the Adam and Eve story explain the differences. If Adam and Eve were Jewish, where did the Caucasians and Chinese and Blacks and American Indians and other distinct races come from? How could all that diversity have come from just 2 jews if there has been no evolution since then?

If men evolved from underwater life forms, as one of the more extreme evolution theories goes, why is it that only man decided to evolve? Why have all other creatures decided to remain catatonic in that regard?

Life started in water. Some plants and animals came to land and evolved into the diverse species we see today including us. Some stayed in water and continued to diversify and adapt there too.

If there are billions of planets and then earth happens to have the right constituents for life as seen on earth, why does it seem that there are no other planets capable of hosting life, even with the extent of space exploration we've got so far?

Space exploration is at its infancy. We don't know whether there's life on other planets, because they are too far away.

jahstech:
You 24 hours in a day, that's how it has being for ages, no going back no going forward, let me guess, it is just there?

The earth rotates around it's axis at the perfect degree from the Sun, 0.001 degree closer and we all burn. 0.001 degree farther and we all freeze to death, and I guess you think is by chance as well!!

1) The distance between the earth and the sun is not measured in degrees, its measured in kilometers. 2) There are 100 to 200 billion planets in our Galaxy. The fact that one of them happens to have the right conditions for life isn't a big surprise. 3) The conditions on earth have varied a lot over time. There have been ice ages and hot periods, periods when the level of oxygen was much higher than it is now, supporting giant insects, and now, global warming. Life persists not because the conditions on earth have always been perfect for life but because life can adapt to the changes in the environment by evolving.

UyiIredia:
Even though we have testimonies of people who have seen an afterlife in near death experiences.

Those are probably just hallucinations. When the brain is deprived of oxygen, it starts misfiring. We know the experiences are not real because they are not consistent with each other. People's "afterlife" experiences tend to match the religions they have been exposed to, and we know that the religions can't all be true.

mrsefan:
can all this fools tell me if they have seen air before ? Then why believe its air

Because they can feel it as it moves around? Because Scientists have collected it and conducted experiments to find out what it's made up of?

if there is not God then where is the rain air coming from even fire which scientist created them?

Rain comes from water vapor in the air, which rises to form clouds in the sky. When the temperature falls, the water vapor turns into liquid and falls. When you take a cold bottle of coke out of the freezer, the bottle soon starts dripping with water. This is the same principle at work.

Fire is a result of combustion. When a fuel is heated to a sufficiently high temperature in the presence of air, it combines with oxygen and this chemical reaction releases a lot of energy in the form of heat and light, which you call fire. The fire dies when it runs out of fuel or oxygen.

KingEbukasBlog:
If God does answer your prayers, you are obviously living in sin.

How can you say that? So all the amputees in the world are living in sin which is why their limbs have not grown back? What a cruel excuse.

neihzar:
As an atheist, what is your own concept of life after death?

The most rational answer is that it will be quite similar to life before birth. Just as we didn't exist before birth, we'll stop existing after death. Is that depressing? Maybe. So should we choose to believe in life after death? No, because choosing to believe something doesn't make it true.

herzern:
Because you chose not to believe him.......

You shouldn't choose to believe anything. You should believe things if you are convinced by evidence and reason that they are true and correct.

Sorry about this.

PastorAIO:
Could you please show us where he went wrong? Thank you.

MizB, please answer this question. It's a very good question.

Seun:
If your answer is 'yes,' what are some of the ways in which you feel that an Islamic country would be better for your life than a secular country?

Eitsei, Lagusta, Demmzy15, I'd be glad if you can answer this. Thanks.

Interesting. It must have something to do with caching.

**** Plan for them before getting new ones.

RobinHez:
I had the privilege of reading Foxe's book of Matyrs. And everything on the persecution of Christians till recent times were documented there (the disciples included)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxe's_Book_of_Martyrs

[s]Also, Josephus, an historian at that time talked about the disciples and their "belief in a risen christ", how they were being killed.... Even by Nero who set fire on Rome and blamed it on the sect.[/s]

Remember, we're talking about the persecution of the 11 disciples of Jesus who may have known that he didn't actually rise bodily. This is the part of Foxe's Book Of Matyrs that is relevant to this: www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/fox101.htm According to him, only John was not martyred.

As a muslim, would you prefer to live in an Islamic country governed by Islamic laws and principles, rather than a secular country which defends the rights of women, muslims, christians, atheists, lesbians, gays, scantily clad babes, drinkers, and all minorities, and treats them equally?

If your answer is 'yes,' what are some of the ways in which you feel that an Islamic country would be better for your life than a secular country?

malvisguy212:
So they were beaten, persecuted and killed for a deliberate lie ? What will they achieve for this lie ? One fact still stand, the TOMB WAS EMPTY, were would the body go ? What explanation will you give concerning the empty tomb ? to say the disciples stole his body is laughable. 11 people would not just give their life for something they know is a lie. Chose among this 3
1.Are they lying ?.
2.they hallucinated ?
3.They actually saw the risen christ ?

Chose among the 3, I have question for you. Thank you.

Okay, let's do this. We could spend ages indulging in endless speculations that have nothing to do with reality, so let's not do that. Let's anchor our speculations in reality by discussing only the things we have evidence for.

You seem to believe that the 11 disciples were all beaten, persecuted and killed for insisting that Jesus rose from the dead. That they all had a chance to save their lives by confessing that Jesus did not rise from the dead, but they all refused to do that, and for this reason they were all killed. Show me the evidence for that.

(Rilwayne001, thanks for your insightful comments on the Matthew story.)

malvisguy212:
address my first post, will the disciples ready to die for something that is lie?

There are so many possible answers to that question:
1) People often risk their lives for lies. Someone who lied for a long time might rather risk death than allow the truth to destroy his life's work.
2) When death came, they may not have been given the option of telling the truth in exchange for their lives. They may have had no choice.
3) It is possible that a third party was responsible for the missing body and the disciples only saw Jesus in visions rather than bodily. Then over time the stories of their spiritual (imaginary) encounters with Jesus might have been spiced up dramatically by people trying to prove that Jesus rose physically from the dead. In this case, if they were in fact martyred, they would have chosen to die for what they thought was the truth but was only in their minds. In the time of Paul there were Christians called "gnostics" who believed that the resurrection was only spiritual.

Please let us stick to the topic or we will be banned. Rule 1 says, "don't derail threads by posting off topic." Thank you.

I guess nobody wants to shed more light on the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ, which is what this thread about. Not atheism.

shumuel:
Don't mind him jare, he is now belleFOOLed thats why he his speaking nonsense ****

When he built NL with the last money on him ''Less than N1000; around N500 or so'' God was good, now that he had made his money, the same God is now unreal, sigh... this is why God don't pick calls.

I was an atheist for years before I started Nairaland. I acknowledge the grace of the real people (not gods) who helped me and keep helping me. I stand on the shoulders of many wonderful people. We all do.

shumuel:
Na waaa oooo is this not the same person i first heard of his site ''Nairaland'' in the church from a hand written testimony, at LFC lagare, Ile-ife, Osun-state ?

LFC Lawhat? Testimowhat? Bro, I don't think Jesus ever asked anyone to lie for him.

I just pray and hope you don't take Nairaland down with you when the pestilence that await you finally comes

No pestilence has struck down Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and the many other successful unbelievers in the world, so don't hold your breath. The closest thing to a pestilence in my life actually started when I was a very sincere and devout Christian.

I'm pleased that nobody has disputed my actual arguments. I guess I am right.

It seems that the organizers have gotten a new sponsor. Good for them. I wonder why the contest is called "Miss Nairaland" though.

ritababe:
seun just a question.
are you using Nairaland to turn people away from Christ? because all I see now is that you are trying to destroy the Christian faith.
are you an Antichrist?

To be honest, I'm putting my views out there because i believe they are true, and also because I want to start meeting people of like mind.

thesicilian:
Christianity is free for you all to mock, so go ahead.

This thread is not mockery. I'm just observing that the evidence for the belief that Jesus rose from the dead seems to be very weak.

iliyande:
what of the soldiers that testified even though they were not Jesus followers?

They didn't testify about the resurrection. This thread is focused on that.

theoneJabulani:
Don't expect them to see the flaws of their belief, its completely pointless.

Tnx, but I think most Nairaland members are smart enough to see the flaws. They may not acknowledge them, but they will see them.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is probably the most important event in Christianity. Apostle Paul said, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith" (I Cor 15:14). He also said, "if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins". Did it really happen, though? Let's look at the evidence.

1. The Empty Tomb And The Men In White

Mark, which was the first gospel to be written, describes the incident in chapter 16:

When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body. 2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb 3 and they asked each other, “Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?”

4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. 5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.

6 “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.’”

8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.

Is it reasonable to accept this as evidence that Jesus rose from the dead? Let's see.

Jesus was the T B Joshua of his time. He came from a humble background, was loved by the masses because of his miracle ministry, and was hated by the religious establishment which didn't accept him as a true man of God and felt that his teachings were unscriptural.

Now lets imagine that T. B Joshua died, and then 3 days later the 3 women who were closest to him when he was alive in his ministry came to you with this story: That they went to T B Joshua's grave to pray and lay flowers, but when they got there, they saw that the grave had been opened, the body missing and a young guy in a white suit was sitting there. And the guy told them that T B Joshua had risen from the dead.

Would it be reasonable to believe that T B Joshua had risen from the dead on the basis of this testimony? Wouldn't you be suspicious that T B Joshua's body had been stolen by his top pastors to make it appear that he had risen? That the man in white was just an accomplice of the thieves? That maybe the women were hallucinating due to their grief, or simply lying to hype their hero and crush?

Luke's Gospel, written about 10 years later, describes the same incident thus:

They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ” 8 Then they remembered his words.

9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others.

Notice how the story has been altered to solve the issues with the first one, and spiced up?

Imagine if, in the hypothetical case of TB Joshua's alleged resurrection, the women who told you about his empty grave came back 10 years later to tell the same story. But this time, instead of a young man in a white suit who was sitting by the grave when they arrived, they claim that there was no one at T B joshua's grave initially and then suddenly, two men in glowing suits as bright as the sun (implying angels) appeared before them and gave them a scriptural lesson. Would those changes make the story more believable to you, or less so?

2. Appearing To His Closest Followers

According to Mark's Gospel,

When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.
****
12 Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country.
****
14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

In short, Jesus' closest followers claimed that he appeared to them at various times after his body went missing. Jesus closest followers had everything to lose by his death, and everything to gain by getting people to believe the resurrection story. They had sold all their posessions and left their families and professions to join Jesus' ministry. With his death, that ministry was finished, but the ressurection story brought it back to life. Knowing about this serious conflict of interest, it reasonable to accept their testimony as evidence that the resurrection actually happened?

If TB Joshua died and the top pastors in his church said he appeared to them, would you believe it for one moment?

3. His Appearance To 500 Believers

According to 1 Corinthians 15:6,

[Jesus] appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep."

This would seem like the least weak evidence for the resurrection, due to the sheer number of potential witnesses, until you start to wonder why none of the Gospels mentioned it. Not even imaginative Luke of the robes as white as lightening. Why would all the Gospel writers have choosen to leave out what would have been their strongest evidence? 500 witnesses! Because it didn't happen? Because it was too early to tell such a big lie and get away with it? I don't know.

And even if we want to at issume that it happened, we must not forget that it would be quite easy for any illusionist to stage the appearance of Jesus to people who strongly want to believe that he is still alive. Benny Hinn tells a story about Jesus appearing during one of his crusades, and people believe it.

Conclusion:
The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus is a bunch of testimonies attributed to people who had every reason to lie during a period when people were far more superstitious and gullible than we are today because they didn't have science. It's not sufficient to convince an objective modern person that a 3 day old corpse whose brain and heart would have decayed considerably actually came back to life, held meetings in person with various people, and then ascended into outer space. Or ... What do you think?