₦airaland Forum

cococandy:
Sir please go to a hospital and have your womb checked out. thanks

A sir with a womb?

If every lady used on the cover page of The Rhapsody of Realities is Pastor Chris's wife, that means, the man get plenty wives o.

LordReed:
This doesn't answer the question. You told me that this is a work in progress to the point where mature Christians no longer sin. How many of such people do you know and are you one of them? I didn't ask what justification means.

The Work in progress is from when we got Born Again and as little kids grew up to understand what Justification means we just accept it and move over to the Righteousness of Christ.

Again, Every Believer who wears the Righteousness of Christ sins not.

tintingz:
Lol, yes it's God, so?

It's God who did what? Be clear.

MuttleyLaff:
I know. I just wanted it shared, that I am aware of the chemistry between you both and with others

That Chemistry is called 'The Holy Spirit'.

MuttleyLaff:
Words are potent weapons for all causes, good or bad. If the foot slips, one can always regain one's balance, but when the tongue slips, one can never recover one's own words.

I agree. That's why we must be careful with Words.

I'm sorry for calling you Gay. I know you are not Gay.

tintingz:
My argument is to point out the paradox of freewill and destiny.

So kindly answer my question.

It doesn't mater what your point is. Answer my question.

You can't jump mine and expect me to answer yours.

LordReed:
Let's get to something you didn't answer.

How many of these mature Christians do you know commit no sin? Are you one of them?

Yes. The righteousness of Christ which is imputed on me is perfect, wirhout any blemish.

When YHWH looks at me, He sees Christ, for He stands in my place. That is what Justification means.

LordReed:
Ok I will.

See? that is Free will. No one is forcing you to do it.

So long as you can perceive and have the ability to take actions you have Free Will, how you manage it is your business.

tintingz:
I don't believe in God but let me play along.

Before I was created did God knows my end and in details?

I know you don't believe in God, yet you want to talk abt what He can and cannot do.

First answer the questions asked you, then I will treat this.


Now that you reject and malign Him every chance you get, Did he choose that for you?

LordReed:
Wait so free will is not about sinning but about choosing the god?

Have you Chosen Him? Did someone aid you in rejecting Him?
That is Free Will.

LordReed:
I mean is it possible to live a good life without choosing the god?

I painted a picture for you earlier and I told you to try and see.
It's not just outwardly, but intentionally too. Try it.

LordReed:
Ok lemme see if I understand you correctly. I am free to choose any thing I want, I am choosing sin only because I like sin. If I recognise sin as sin then I wouldn't choose it. Am I right so far?

Now the god part is where I am lost again. Why did it require the sacrifice of Jesus to liberate me if I could just liberate myself?



How many mature Christians who do not sin do you know? Are you one of them?

Persecuted? By whom and for what reason? I do not know of any Christian being persecuted because they do not want to sin. I assume by persecution you mean actual harm not perceived ones.

We will have discussion only when you cross over, for, as long as you recover there, you can never understand. Don't bother.

How many mature Christians who do not sin do you know? Are you one of them?

Persecuted? By whom andk for what reason? I do not know of any Christian being persecuted because they do not want to sin. I assume by persecution you mean actual harm not perceived ones.[/quote]

LordReed t=79073603:
Ok lemme see if I understand you correctly. I am free to choose any thing I want, I am choosing sin only because I like sin. If I recognise sin as sin then I wouldn't choose it. Am I right so far?

Yes.

LordReed t=79073603:
Now the god part is where I am lost again. Why did it require the sacrifice of Jesus to liberate me if I could just liberate myself?

You have not been following. I told you that there are two Camps. The one you are right now, and the Camp of Jehovah.

The Fall flung you into the Camp you are right now(altho) with your Perception and Volition intact, your actions are controlled, and cannot help yourself. But, YHWH wants to help you.

But, YHWH is interested in you. Take up the rope is throwing to you and He will pull you out.

The Free Will is, you either take the rope or you remain there.

Listen , in spiritual and divine matters, the mind,
heart, and will of unreborn human beings are entirely unable to under

LordReed:
"The god" is the Christian god.

And if I just want to live a good life without choosing the god?

You have already done so Volitionally. That is the Free Will we've been talking about here.

tintingz:
God has already made decisions for everyone if he's all-knowing and has the book of destiny.

You mean God decided that you'd be a thief? Yet he says Thou shall not steal?

See reasoning.

tintingz:
God has already made decisions for everyone if he's all-knowing and has the book of destiny.

Yeah? He also made the decision that you shd turn against Him and fight His ways?

LordReed:
I shunned what? The challenge to try to live a sinless life?

That is the thing. You don't 'try', you just accept it.

The non-Christians 'try' to live a sinless life. You can't. Immediately you chose the other Camp, you forfeited your rights to live for God.

LordReed:
So I don't need the god? I can do it by myself?

What do you mean by 'the god?'

LordReed:
The question is not one of duration but of ability. Is a slave able to free himself? If he can then what does he need with an external agency?

The slave can only free himself to the extend that he makes use of his perception and Volition.

If you use your Perception to turn to God, He leads you out of where you choose to keep yourself, but if not, you remain there as you are looking for absolution from yourself.

LordReed:
It hard to grasp because you seem to be outlining a one thing and at same time saying the thing doesn't exist.

You are failing to acknowledge that they are two Camps here with varied approaches to things.

The first Camp is YHWH's: He created every one with Perception which enables them to react to their environment. He gave everyone volition and the Will Power to Will their actions.

Then the Camp of the Fallen: In this Camp, altho, one has his/her Perceptions and Volition's, their actions are controlled.

Thus, Choosing which Camp to belong determines what happens further. Whether or not you choose God, you'd still have your Perceptions and Volition.(Which is what makes you different from an animal)

Although, you are in the dark, He is point the beam of light on you saying, "follow me and come out". It's your choice to say 'Why did you allow me choose sin in the first place', or come out of it

LordReed:
In one part I am free and can do as I please then in another part I am a slave and I need liberation.
[quote author=LordReed post=79071181]You say I am exercising free will then you say I am a slave to sin.

Yes. You use your Free Will to put yourself into slavery.

Like I said, whether or not you choose God, you still have perception and Volition.

You dey put food for your nose? Shey you know the difference between your nose and your mouth?

LordReed:
I am not understanding how I am a slave to sin and still have free will. Will my slavery to sin not compel me to commit sin?

You are a slave to sin becos, although you have the perception and Volition to know that where you are wreaks with the stench of rot, and can get up and walk away, you choose to remain there yet complain of the stench.

Have you heard of 'Mental slavery?'

Na you kip ya sef dia.

LordReed:
And in addition if you are liberated from sin how are you still committing sin?

That's why I asked you if while you were a baby you pooed on yourself.

No baby is born and gets up and begin to run. The same with being born in the Spirit. We keep slipping Until we mature. Mature Christians know the consequences of sin and sins not. (deliberately)

LordReed:
Is it that this liberation is not real and is just a metaphor for something else or it is a real liberation that you have not yet experienced?

How did you know that Christians still sin after liberation? I mean mature Christians, not baby Christians.

If we continue sinning, then there wouldn't be persecution against us, have you thought of that?

Do you know that what engenders persecution is our shunning the norm?

LordReed:
No that is not the question. The question remains am I a slave to sin to which your bible says yes I am so then if i am a slave how do i have free will?

You are a slave as long as YOU CHOOSE TO REMAIN THERE.

The key has been handed over to you.

MuttleyLaff:
I will now, especially since that you've specifically requested I do.

Mind you TV01 and you seem to be singing for the same hymn sheet, which explains why he endorsed all your comments on this thread, definitely so because that is what he thinks and believe

Yes, and that is to be expected since both of us are Anti-homosexuality and bases our antagony on the same Scriptures.

He quotes the same Scriptures i quote, it'll be strange for us to have divergent views after doing so.

It seems we repeat yourselves becos we have the same views.


Sincerely, I secretly wish I am as good with words as TV01 is.

LordReed:
You asked;

' Is a non Christian free to make choices to sin or not sin?
And I answered;
To live a sinless life? Try it and see.
The non-Christian has the knowledge that stealing is wrong, he wishes he can restrain himself from it, but cannot, becos a power is in him making sure he steals. He gave himself to that power, that is a Choice which comes with Free Will.

[quote author=LordReed post=79070809]I interpreted that to mean I would be unable to live such a life, how was I wrong?

But you are told what to do in other for you not to live that life. Why not take it?

You are wrong becos when you are told what to do, you shunned it.

LordReed:
And the question still remains unresolved if a person is a slave to sin then he is not free is he?

Only, this kind of slavery he is the one holding the key.

If he decides to open the door, he walks free or stay bound.

LordReed:
It does matter how he became a slave, a slave is a slave.

No, in this case a slave is not always a slave.

If they was no propitiation/justification, then a slave wld ve always been a slave.

LordReed:
So how does a non Christian have free will if he cannot exercise it?

But you are already exercising yours. Here you are an atheist. Did your parents choose it for you? Oh, you have blasphemed the Lord and His Word here in this forum, but no one forced you or restrained you. Isn't that exercising your Free Will?

You can also choose to celebrate God, but this cannot happen without being liberated first.

LordReed:
How is it free will if he requires a liberation in order to exercise the ability to be sin free?

Did you read what you typed? Before he didn't have a choice to depart from Sin.

He requires liberation before he can be sin free, because, he belonged to another Master (Sin) in the past. That Master (Sin and satan) didn't give him any room to choose another, but he is liberated from them, and left to choose either to return to his old master or stay with the new.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

LordReed:
But you just said I can't exercise it and malvisguy212 says we are slaves. Are we slaves or not?

I said you can't exercise your Freedom?

Pls direct me there.

And Malvisguy said when a man is addicted to sin ? he is a SLAVE to sin , which Jesus came to set us FREE

Where did he say we are slaves?

MuttleyLaff:
Thanks for your understanding and patience.

My apologies in advance, because the coming post is long ooo. You don't expect me to let TV01 get away with murder eh

So far, I can't see the murder TV01 has committed. But if you insist, it then behooves on you to present the facts (Scripturally o).

MuttleyLaff:
Thanks for your understanding and patience.

My apologies in advance, because the coming post is long ooo. You don't expect me to let TV01 get away with murder eh

Direct TV01's responses to him and mind to mine differently.

LordReed:
How am I free if I am a slave?

How are you a slave if you have the Freedom to choose either to stay or go?

LordReed:
Is a non Christian free to make choices to sin or not sin?

To live a sinless life? Try it and see. lol.

Besides, a non-Christian does not even identify sin as such. It takes the Word of God to reveal to you that thinking sex in your mind is called Lust=Sin.

It takes the Bible for you to know that no matter what happened, you must forgive if someone hurts you badly. Without the Spirit of God in you, you wouldn't forgive. You may not revenge, but wld definitely not forgive him. (depending on what he did).

Another thing. A non-Christian can hold back from doing wrong for fear of the Law of the land, which ranges from the civic authority or his village gods, or to protect his reputation (If he has one), but in his heart, commits those sins because he has not identified them as sin.

Sin is not only when it is acted upon.

If you offend me and I bare you a grudge. I lock you up in my mind and harbour malicious intends against you. I project negative energies towards you by wishing you misfortunes. When I hear any bad news about you, I secretly celebrate. My dear, that is as good as killing you. If I have my way and can get away with it, I'd do it.

But, The Lord has freed us from that power and has given us a Spirit that lets us let go and pray for the well-being of that individual and wish he realizes his wrong doing and repent.

This is why we Christians no longer practice 'An Eye for an Eye'. We forgive.



Just try it and see if you can do it on your own.

LordReed:
No I don't get it. What you are describing is self control not freedom. Like I asked does a free man go to the prison compound to partake of the prison fare? The word the bible uses is freedom not self control, everybody has the ability to exercise self control (in varying degrees of course) so how are you different from the rest of us? And I am not talking about acknowledging sin, that's kind of irrelevant.

Now I know your problem. When it comes to Sin, everyone is free to go in and out.

Freedom comes with making Choices right? But what if you don't have the wherewithal to make the choice?

And what if what keeps you from making the choice is taken away? You become Free to do as you choose right?

This freedom does not imprison you in always doing right because you are free. You are left to do as you choose. That is freedom.

Sir, the reason sin is sin to the Believers is that power to stay away from it is given to them, but if they Willing go back to it, the scenario you painted then comes into play.

A free man who goes to the prison to eat prison food is a like a sinner who although free, return back to his old ways. (Altho, our God will forgive wen we return)

Check this out.

2 Peter 2:21-22 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Sir, it takes SELF-CONTROL (which is a Spirit of Free Will), to stay out of prison.

Jayslicky:
Does he even celebrates his own birthday?

Happy birthday to him, he is one few pastors who have not let material things become a treasure in their hearts.

Oh, but what if he dies and gets to heaven to only discover that God actually created everything on earth for human beings to enjoy and not for satan and his agents?

What will he do after subjecting a whole lot of his followers to poverty and retrogression?

Some of his followers may even be complaining and murmuring in the place of prayer thinking God does not answer their prayers, not knowing they have been led to believe wrongly?

Listen Bros, God is not against Worldly possessions, What He is against is turning our attentions, and focus from Him to the Things He has given to us.

1 Corinthians 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
If everything on earth belongs to God, who are they intended for? Satan and his agents?

Deuteronomy 10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

Wld God wish his enemies to enjoy the earth and not His Children?

Haggai 2:8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.

So YHWH created Gold and silver? For what purpose?

Deeper Life says wearing Gold and silver is a sin. What it means here is that God created something sinful?

I believe Using Gold to make idols for worship is what YHWH is against, not wearing it.


1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours.

All things are mine? What things?

Happy Birthday to Papa Kumuyi. Deeper Life formed my Love for the in-depth study of the Word of God. But, I don't subscribe to everything he teaches.

MuttleyLaff:
Hold on to your knickers Shepherd00 and please stop this your usual nonsense of jumping the gun.

I thought patience is a virtue, from a believer's biblical point of view. Please exercise some sense of self control and stop badgering me. Body nobi wood and I for one, listens to my body.

I already have to a modest degree addressed the misinformation and misunderstanding kkins25, you and others have in my soon to be uploaded reply to TV01 latest, so please rein in yours and openmine snapping at my heels.

All that you raised in your post, are virtually all addressed in my upcoming post sitting on my Mac. Please chill. I've warned you to stop drinking strong coffee nau, didn't I.

I am sorry that I missed last night's midnight deadline, but I will rather miss it than uploading a sub standard and unworthy rebuttal. My apologies to all again

PS: I love you bro, nwanne Shepherd00, and I am not avoiding you nor refusing to respond to your comments on this thread. You will soon find out my strategy for not yet immediately responding to yours first before seeing what TV01 had to stay

Okay then. But, I'd rather you pick out our different posts point by point directing them to us, than jumbling everyone's post in one longgggggg response. That makes it cumbersome to react to one's.

React to mine, and do so to TV01's. If we say the same thing, just point us to the one you responded to.

Your long posts are dizzying.

LordReed:
I never say I am free of my bodily functions, you say you are free from sin. How are you free if you still sin? Does a free man go to prison compound to eat prison food?

You didn't get the point did you? When we were like you, sin was okay and free. But now there's resistance inside of me whenever i think of sinning.

Oh God!!!!!!!, I want to have sex, My body is screaming with desire. But i'm not married. The Holy Spirit reminds me that I am His dwelling place and joining my body in fornication griefs Him. So does lying, cheating, stealing, pride, anger, fear, malice, murder in intentions, unforgiveness, etc.

I think of the devastation these causes to my natural partner if I were married, and tell myself to back off, and I do.

The Power to know I can do it, but refrains from doing it, is what i'm talking about.


Before, even if I know it's wrong, I couldn't Back off.
Get it?

christ1stlove:
I have Christ... I have all I need...My Lord, king, n Savior...My sin was great... Your LOVE was Greater...Good loving Father...Thank you for mercy,Favor n GRACE

Amen.