It will be a dull and colourless presidency should PDP win the elections. ObJ's gameplan is to install lackeys that he can control right from his Ota farm after handing over. It is sad that only less than 10 wise men determine the future of Nigeria.

Zukie 4 eva,

I appreciate that Americans are richer because they give but do they necessarily give to the church. The American society boasts of charitable organisations that are well funded by private individuals. But do we have that here? How many Nigerians are willing to fund the projects of someone else?

It still boils down to the fact that excessive emphasis on prosperity has turned us to greedy people. Because how rich you are defines how well the church receives you, everyone is into the business of grabbing as much as possible. We are getting rich for ourselves only because we don't see churches support good causes financially.

I am a church boy but I have too many reservations with the church system in Nigeria. It is too egoistic and materialistic for comfort.

Mazaje,

Thanks for your view. You have hit the nail on the head. Many Nigerians have been deceived into looking for shortcuts to becoming rich. Pastors now argue they only need to sow to prosper. And like you said, Nigeria is poorer for it. I wonder why the God we are giving so much is not blessing us above atheists. The answer is: Because he is not partial. Prosperity has to do with solving human problems and meeting needs. Money is the reward for meeting specific needs. But how many pastors are saying this?

Rather they will organise porgrammes during working hours and convince members to attend. I was with pastor Sunday Adelaja, the Nigerian pastoring the largest church in Europe, recently. He said the major problem with Nigeria is the church. He added that the undue emphasis on prosperity in the church has promoted greed and raised a pool of lazy people who are only expecting miracles as against working for God. And I couldn't agree less with him. He should know because he is rich and still godly.

Thanks

It is not so much about whether prospeity is a biblical truth as our attitude to it. The rate we are now, it has become the mainstay of the church and the emphasis of pastors. One gets the feeling that the only reason why one should be a christain is to propser.

Why God is happy that we prosper, he expects us to be holy and pure. If we are sincere with ourselves, it has been preached to a nauseating state. That is why the only thing that counts is your financial worth. If you are poor or struggling, people now think there is sth wrong between you and God. let us face it, we have maginfied it to the extent that result is only measured in monetary terms.

I love to propser but I should love to serve God in righteousness the more. You can be rich and go to hell. The time to determine whether we are serious abt eternity is now or never. Thanks

This is victory for democracy. let us hope the all-mighty and all-knowing presidency does not have a different intepretration.

Osegwu,

I agree perfectly with you on the need for people to learn to protest. I was speaking lately with an equally distrubed pentecostal church leader in Nigeria on how to stop the drift. We explored many options but settled for people-revolt. According to him, people shoul start asking questions and calling their pastors to accountability.

Moreso, they should protest by walking out on any church where money is the main subject of attraction. I left him wondering if such a time would ever come. The fact is are people empowered enough to be that radical and daring?

We may need to look at this too

Well it is sad. But isn't there a way of regulating the nefarious activities of these men of God?

Many have cited the desperate quest to break away from poverty as a reason why many of them indulge in it. Then, can we say people are getting just what they deserve?

THE POISON CALLED PROSPERITY

I have observed with increasing alarm the overt emphasis placed on the message of propserity by Nigerian church leaders. As it is, it now appears all that christianity is all about is prosperity.

Now many Nigerians attend church not to serve God but to have their needs- mostly economic- met. Are you comfortable with the rate prosperity messages haev grown in Nigeria? Are there excesses and harms gone to the gospel?

Happy discussion

Hello guys,
I find this exchange of vituperations totally unnecessary. Why do we Christians like fighting ourselves? Why do we like proving we are right and better than others? I think it is nothing but a show of self.

I mean we are talking about a fallen general here and we go on arguing with ourselves when we should be praying for him and discussing what we learn from the whole saga.

Well, I am learning my lessons and so are Nigerian Pastors. Please find out what they have to say and learn from Haggard's fall from on grace in The Nation on Sunday(Page 50). Let's remember we are all in the same boat and as vulnerable as Haggard.

Thanks

WILL ELECTIONS HOLD IN 2007?

All the ingredients that should ensure elections hold next year have been missing. One, there is so much tension and uncertainty in the polity. The on-going voters' registration is a wobbling exercise. Nigerians are not only apathetic, the equipment are also inadequate and malfunctioning.

And the political parties apper not ready for elections. Less than six months to the polls, none of them has held its primaries, let alone declare their flagbearers. The few aspirants so far are hesistant as many of them have not started campaigning full throttle.

As things stand, will Nigeria hold elections next year? If yes, will the current confusion and apathy among Nigerians affect the conduct and outcome of the polls? Is this not a script by the presidency to elongate its tenure or install its lackey in political offices? What does this portend for our hard-earned democracy?

These are questions agitating my troubled mind and I really want to share the burden with everyone, with a view to charting the way forward.

Happy discussion!

I have been bothered by the inability of the church to retain its youthful element too. I know of many relations who left the church. In my interactiosn with them, I found out that the church is too rigid on inconsequential things. This is not to say people are leaving because they find its spiritual emphasis far too suffocating. On the contrary, many of them leave basically on simple social issues.

I was part of the church too and found out in a bid to curtail excesses, it went to another extreme. It is a major problem anong Nigerian churches. There is no moderating balance, making them slant to many extremes.

In the case of Deeper Life, its policy of marriage has to be reviewed. Pple are practically teleguided to choose. This is wrong and unbiblical. Those who marry elseweher are looked down as "unspiritual". Again, the operations of the church must be modernised. I am not saying they should compromise but just refine their worship to meet with modern realities without failing God. Afterall, God remains relevant at all times.

I am surprised we are celebrating this illegality. You don't fight illegality through illegality. I think we got too consumed with getting rid of the man that we don't bother how it is done. That is the archilles heel of Nigeria. We don't bother about due process provided we win. I have no sympathy for Fayose but the man should be legally removed for God's sake.

As it is, we are setting a dangerous precedent for our nascent democracy. We are all losers for it.

It is difficult to see how this is possible. Look guys, let us not even mention military intervention. Let us not unwittingly give them reasons to take over. It is no longer fashionable and Nigeria has outgrown that.

How matter worse the democratic experience is, we are always better off. Let those toying with this idea jettison it. I suggest somebody is using this to test the water and know public mood towards it.

The question should be who is a bigger thief. Of course, that is Obasanjo. At least Atiku has the dignity of not telling us he is a thief. I am more at home with people who admit their wrongs than those who cover it up. Obasanjo has stolen more monies. The reason this is not obvious is because he is the incumbent. If he leaves, this nation will be shocked to know of an unprecedented looting, effectively coordinated by Obasanjo.

Thanks for this thread. This will at least give many critics the opportunity to tell us what they would do differently.

For me, I will go on a all-out against corruption that virus that has eaten deep into our national fabric. If that is eliminated, I have always believed Nigeria will work again.

Then, I want to invest heavily on education. Real wealth comes from investment in human development. Nigeria has more human than natural resources.If we only tap into it, this nation will become an heaven on earth.

Then, i will want at changing our grossly vandalised value system that dwells more on materalism and not character. If these are fixed, I will be too glad to hand over after a term.

Tayo (D)

I agree with you that the govt should not look away when cases of corruption are proven in the church. Sad as it is, the truth is many churches are involved in money laundering, misappropriation and corrupt practices. Were churches what they should be, we won't be talking about investigation in the first place.

Having said that, I think the onus is on churches to undergo internal cleansing. The fact is the society is aware of those scandals we so desperately want to hide. Instead of waiting for govt to do it for us, we should start the process of self-cleansing.

My worry is how many churches would subject themselves to correction and rebuke by higher authorities they subscribe to? If there can just get around to correct themselves, the coming hammer would not fall on them.

I rest my case

Tayuboy,

Why not spill the bean if it is genuine? The idea of calling you for referral is suspicious. Hope this is not another scam in the making?

Seun,

We share similar views. Nigeria, i believe, is the best place to live in Nigeria. I have enjoyed being a Nigerian. But the point is we are not comparing Nigeria with countries like US, UK and France. What about small countries like Ghana, Signapore, China and Bostwana? That is the point.

How much time will it take us? Don't misunderstand me, I believe in Nigeria but I get frustrated sometimes with Nigeria's backwardness. I know we don't deserve to be where we are.

Hello all,

I am pained that such needless rumours can be peddled in Nigeria. What do mongers stand to gain? Why would anyone want the bridge to collapse? Why creating unnecessary panic in the country? Let's get busy with changing the country rather than creating undue tension.

Seun,

I share your view most passionately. I have always believed that whatever one becomes has much more to do wit oneself than the govt. But that is if govt is alive to its minimum responsibilty. I agree Nigerians are working but most are not. More would have been had the system better than it is. The point is our system is not working and there is little you can accomplish is such a state. Even if you are dogged and enterprising, there is a limit to what you can become. That is my pain and the reason why i believe this country is not working.

Let others react.

Hello,

Does it mean a plot goes for N300,000? But it must be negotiable. I will be interested if it goes for N200,000K. My no is 08034309265. What is the location like? Is it very remote or accesible? let me have the answers to these.

A question ran through my mind that i want us to ponder on: Can you die for Nigeria? Put otherwise, is Nigeria worth dying for?

Fellow Nigerians, what do you think?

Neither of God has the final say. That rests with God and YOU. But if the question is who consent is more vital, i will say that of parents. Even the bible and our culture accentuate this. My pastor cannot, for any reason, overrule my choice of partner. The most he can do is to disagree and still join us. If not, one can always get joined elsewhere.

However, my parents' objection is more weighty and deserving of thought. They have the right to either agree or not. But even if they do disagree, the idea thing is to work on them and wait until they change their minds. Those who went ahead without this always bite their fingers.

So, if it about consent, my parents have the right to. But no pastor has the final say on who anyone marries. It amounts to overstretched powers for any pastor to expect anyone to marry whoever he deems fit. If he has to do that, then he has failed as a pastor to tutor his flock on how to take the most important issue in life. Members should be left to their convictions. Sikena!

I hand over the baton.

Dear Friends,

Just yesterday, I got chatting with some friends on Nigeria. And the recurring question is :Why is Nigeria not working? For months now, that same question has been agitating my mind. Why is Nigeria not growing like other nations? Why are successful policies failing in Nigeria? Why is the same IMF prescriptions that transformed neighboring Ghana unable to transform Nigeria?

I think we should look at why our nation is not working.

Happy discussion!-+

Well, the aim of the proposed probe is to ensure that cases of money laundering and embezzlements reported in churches can be investigated for prosecution. Many say the church cannot live above the society and its laws. But the other side say churches cannot be probed using worthy standards. But don't we think this scandal would have been avoided had church transactons and operations be above board and beyond suspicion.

I think we really need to thrash this out before it gets out of hands

NUC BANS LASU CAMPUSES

The National University Commission last Friday ordered the Lagos State University to close down all, except three, of his study centres across Lagos. The ones left untouched are Ojo, Epe and Lekki campuses.

The closure, according to NUC, is borne out of the dwindling quality offered at the campuses, in view of the university's failure to upgrade facilities and employ more lecturers.

Now, what do you think? Is NUC right? Has LASU bitten more than it can chew? Do the school deserve the clampdown? What becomes of students in the campuses?

SHOULD EFCC PROBE CHURCHES?
Dear Friends,

Lately, there has been clamour for EFCC to probe the activities of churches in Nigeria. Oa expected, tempers have been running high, with arguments for and against.

Just yesterday, the General Overseer of Foursquares Gospel Church, Rev.(Dr) Wilson Badejo, said the move is not most welcome.

Should the EFFC be allowed to beam its searchlights on churches, considering the sensitive nature of religion in Nigeria? What would this portend for the church? Will this move sanitise the churhces? Are there cases of corruption and money laundering in churches?

Fellow discussants, let us do justice to this volatile and crucial issue.

Well, I guess almost everybody misunderstood the initiator. I beg to diagree that making 2.1 is not a big deal. It sure is. But I also admit that success in life is more than good grades but at least it is the a good start to have one.

I found that Nigerians are used to getting things through the backdoors. It 's one of the reasons why we are backward. That those who have lesser grades are richer or working in better companies does not say it is ok. I know employers look out for more than good grades but neither do they consider applicants with poor grades.

If you have a 2.1. be sure there is more lands to conquer. If not, don't despair. Move on to prove you are still a success. Like someone said what counts is the real you, not what you have in life.

Thanks

Friends,

I am of the view that the best approach is to remain lovely regardless of how we are treated. This is the recommendation of God. The current alarming trend is praying against one's enemy is not from God. Why claim to be Christians if we cannot follow the bible?

Yes, it is if God demads it.

Hello Friends,

I appreciate the revival of a vital subject that the modern church has unfortunately relegated to the background. I admit that salvation is by grace and no human effort is enough to qualify him for redemption.

But salvation is predicated on genuine repentance, made of course freely. The fact that one is saved does not necessarily blot one's ugly pasts. The past must be revisited to make the new status indeed believable. I agree some restitution are unnecessary and simply playing to the gallery but some are just inevitable. tHAT one is saved does not mean one had no past and must break away from it completely.

Personally, i found it laughable that some members of a reputable holiness church confessed that they passed their WAEC with fraud and approached the council for due penalties. That is simply unnecessary. There are some aspects of one's past that cannot be redeemed, how matter hard you try.

Recently, a friend told me a lady abdicated her OND certificate because she gained the admission fraudlently. I realised she was just trying to impress God to receive forgiveness. She did not put her poor parents into consideration.

I have had to restitute my sins too. I gained admission with a fake result. Years after, God convicted me and I approached the registrar to confess. He advised i quickly opt out of the HND programme. I did, though it was painful. But that did not alter what I did. I just knew God would want to apply brake and refuse to tread that path. You all know what? Those who stayed put were disgraced. MANY who escaped are retarded in life. But God honoured my foolishness and promoted me incredibly.

So, the bottomline is being sure God wants you to do it. And being sorry enough about your past to feel no shame with exposing it., AS long as the past remains unconfessed, in any form, it maintains a grip on one. And the result is that movement become tortous and herculean. But there is no need to impress God or please people. I hope I have been helpful.