₦airaland Forum

MindHacker9009:
Judas helped Jesus to fulfill the mission his father sent him to fulfill and even though the Roman soldiers mocked him and cast lots for his garment and they were not repentant, yet Jesus forgave them, but Jesus could not forgive Judas and his own people and the teachers of the Law by just saying father forgive all his people for they know not what they are doing.

This is prove that the Jesus story we have today was invented by the Roman empire.

Did Judas asked for forgiveness b4 going out to hang himself?
Peter denied Jesus but he repented and was forgiven. He later became the head of the church.

There has to be repentance b4 forgiveness. Even the old testament U follow tells U that.

Besides, U have not replied me on my question in previous thread.
Who was the servant on Isaiah 49 who's meant to be light for the gentiles?

danvon:
It was his followers who wrote that 'heaven opened' as part of their propaganda

And nobody living at that time could call them out for lying against Jesus.
So the Jews during that period who refused to follow Jesus kept quiet while these propagandist kept expanding the legend of Jesus until they concluded he's God?

Let me ask U a question
Do U know how James the brother of Jesus died?

Uptownerd:
This is like knowing the root cause of a problem but dancing around it. It's like chasing rat when your house is on fire.

Who told U satan can die?
What do U understand by the word death?

I don't blame U, I blame prosperity and miracle chasing churches that fails to teach members the scriptures.

Now we seeing the effects on social media with children running around asking senseless question.

gohf:
The grammar makes sense, you are just forcing it not to.

I have already told you what "eimi" in Greek is, but didn't refute it but refuse it, trying to logical prove from one misunderstood indirecr sentence that Jesus is God while denying the many clear statements in the Bible that calls him the son of God and not God. Shows the nature at work within you, to reject the truth for the sake of your traditional understanding of things.


Would it make any difference to you if Jesus wasn't God and is just the son of God and is at the right hand of God, is that not sufficient for you but no, you must contradict God Himself and make Him a liar who hide that there were other gods beside him, who hide that his son is God as well yet claimed to be God alone.


The devil is author of confusion and the father of lies, but from God comes wisdom and understanding and revelation.

Ok do U now agree I AM is the name of God?

I have no problem with Jesus being the son of God. But if Jesus is not God, then it means the Father sent another being to be killed so He can forgive humanity- father sacrificed his son kind of arrangement.
That looks like human sacrifice to me and it's called paganism. God hates human sacrifice.

Jesus is not another being/existence sent to shed his blood for mankind. Instead, the father put his own divinity inside a prepared body for the work of atonement. He didn't send someone else.

gohf:
instead of merely asking why don't you answer

To answer you, yes God has a right hand and from scripture we understand that the hand of God is not like the hand of man. and yes I know what it means when the Holy Spirit reveals that Jesus is at the right hand of God.

Guy U are a baby when it comes to Christian theology.
You need to do lots of reading my friend.

How can U boldly say God has a right hand- whatever way U want to depict it when the bible clearly states God is a spirit and he's invisible?

Seriously U need to read more.

jaxxy:
even for yorubas they will make u sweat small b4 they give u their daughters. its just part of the normal process to get a wife but it will be settled there. Lol

What I just watched isn't normal Oga.
How can U call this normal? Is it when they start throwing blows that it becomes abnormal?

gohf:
so God that Jesus is seating at the right side of is actually inside Jesus? So Apostle John, Stephen, Paul and the rest were lying 🤥 when they said Jesus is seated at the right hand of God

Have U heard of the word anthropomorphism b4?

So U think of heaven is opened, U can make sense of what U see with your physical eyes?

So U think Father has a right hand, and Jesus is seated beside that right hand?
Seriously?

Do U know what it meant in Hebrew tradition when they say 'he's seated on the right hand' ?

gohf:
if you reject the truth no one else should be blamed

So I AM GOHF, means YAHWEH GOHF

God said in Exodus 3:14 I am who I am, eh yeh asah eh yeh, and he also said in verse 15, the God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob


When God revealed his name was in Exodus 6:3.


Who God is, and what the name of God is.


The eh yeh, is from hayah, showing that He is creator, the one who spoke and it came to be

And that's why his name is also understood to mean the combination of the two hayah hayah


Jesus never said I am that I am, so because I say I am means I am God and you believe it, it is well with you smh

God told Moses' Tell the people of Israel I AM has sent U'
Yes God told Moses his name is I AM.
Both bible and Jewish scholars agreed I AM pronunciation in ancient Hebrew sounds very much like Yahweh.

When Jesus said before Abraham was, I AM. The grammatical structure of the sentence doesn't make any sense if I AM is not used nominally. Jesus used 'I AM' phrase as a noun and not a verb.

If Jesus simply wanted to express his pre existence or pre awareness he would have said I Was or Abraham knew me.
Exodus 13

13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”

14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.[c] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

AntiChristian:
You forgot you don bring am before?
Abeg shift jawe!

I didn't bring it
You said U would reject it even if it confirms trinity and I left it there....
Now that U yapping about Jewish scriptures again...I need to reset your brain by reminding U of reality in Jewish scriptures.

LordReed:
Direct your response to Steep not me.

No U are the one who said believing Jesus never had sexual urge is madness.

MindHacker9009:
You are the one whose delusions is beyond ordinary, since you are following an invented religion used to control slaves whose nation has been conquered.

Judaism is the original religion God gave the Jews and anyone from the rest of the world that wants to know Him. The people of Nineveh were not Jews but God sent a Jew to go and preach to them. Well you can continue your delusion by worshipping the character in the New Testament story book as your fake lord and saviour.

Judaism says:
Zechariah 8:23
This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'In those days, ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, "Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.

Isaiah 49:6
It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.

But your Jesus said:
Matthew 10:5-6
"These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: 'Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.

Matthew 15:24
He answered, 'I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.

Why are U quoting the old testament?
I thought u said the old testament is corrupted and the original Torah is lost.
So why are U quoting from the corrupt old testament to validate your religion

And besides, who is that servant in Isaiah 49?
That servant who is a light for the gentiles to salvation?
Who is he?

sonmvayina:
I tell you..

You see why God can not be a human being..

The Romans created a god in their image and likeness and gave it to mumu Africans. They did not even care to ask questions. They just believed..

Well some are waking up to the deceit....

U and mindhacker, your delusions are beyond ordinary. I don't know how someone in Africa will wake up and believe he's an African Jew.
Then start forcing yourselves to be part of a religion that don't want U.
U guys inferiority complex is nauseating.

At least Jesus said his gospel is for the whole world. The worst U can say is that he lied or the statement was invented, but the bible clearly said the gospel is for all humanity.

No Jewish rabbi ever said judiasm is for all humanity. None.
Yet U guys will go about insisting U follow a religion that doesn't care about your existence.

What a shame.

LordReed:
So basically he wasn't human? Yet you want to be like him? How will that work?

I think if you reason some of these religious teachings you'll see how utterly madness inducing they are.

So if he's not human how did he die?
Or you have joined the group who denied Jesus ever died?

It's ridiculous to think U need to be superhuman to have sexual control.
Paul the apostle never got married and encouraged others to do the same.
Jesus cousin, John the baptist was a celibate till death. In fact, he belonged to a group of judaism sect called Essenes who also embraced sexual purity, chastity and celibacy as a way of life.

Thousands of monks throughout history were known never to have any form of contact with women during their lifetime. Some never saw a woman with their eyes.

Only black Africans think U need spiritual deliverance to attain sexual discipline.

sonmvayina:
That is what they did with Jesus..

The Jewish Messiah is a man from the line of david through Solomon. He will be anointed king and deliver the Jewish people from their enemies around them.
He is not coming to die for sins as God has already given them the solution to the problem of sin see 2nd chronicles 7:14.
The Messiah will usher in a world wide era of peace. Isaiah actually said that "men will hammer their swords into ploughshares and learn of wars no more..."
That has not happened, when they realise that their Jesus did not meet that requirement, they created the idea of a second coming....

All to deceive....I saw through everything.

Mr Man stop the crap.
The ancient Jews believed in the divine messiah.
I can give U bible verse to support this if U want.
Start with Daniel 7.

gohf:
bible never said so

Timothy 3:16 in Greek does not have the word God in it, what is written is, mystery of godliness who was manifestated in the flesh and justified by the spirit and seen of angels...

Colossians 2:9 doesn't call Jesus God, but said in him dwells the fullness of God something John wrote Jesus said when he said the Father is in him, and the word there is theotetos referring to God's divine nature in him.


Now if Jesus is God because he is full of God, are we the Holy Spirit because we are full of the Spirit?

It's like U don't get it.
Colossians 2.9 said 'for in Christ lies the fullness of Godhead deity in bodily form'
That means the divinity of God dwells inside Jesus.
WHAT MADE THE FATHER GOD- HIS DIVINITY ALSO DWELLS IN JESUS.

We don't have the holy spirit physically in us. What we have is the manifestation of the holy spirit in us- just like in the prophets of old.

But the divinity of the Father physically dwells in Jesus.
Do U get it now?

gohf:
The Greek eimi means I exist and can also be used to mean I was. So you are wrong

The same word I AM was the name given by God to Moses.
I AM in Hebrew means YAHWEH.
I AM is not a phrase U use carelessly amongst the 2nd ancient Jews...it's blasphemy.
But Jesus said I AM as a sentence on its own.
That's why they wanted they picked up stone to kill him.

sonmvayina:
It is a big insult against the creator of the universe...
This idea was first started by Philo of Alexandria. He was the one who put forward the idea of a logos. He thought that the logos was distinct from the creator but part of it.
Justin Martyre took the idea even further and added a third entity....which at the beginning was a feminine entity. And was often symbolized as a dove..
Then when Nicaea came round, the new established church ran with the idea and incorporated it in their creed.
It is all bull crap. God is one. Not three in one. He is the creator and can NEVER be part of creation. You can never be part of the soup you created and none of the ingredients in the soup can become like you....does not make any sense.
Meanwhile I have read the whole of Micah 5. All these rubbish you guys are arguing about is not even there...

If I bring evidence from Jewish scriptures itself showing the logos created the earth, would U accept?

AntiChristian:


AI has replaced Holy spirit! Jesus is God! Partial God! Fully God! Hermaphroditic man-God!

Whichever one you choose will never be logical to any sane individual.

You don't need Holy spirit to understand the Bible any longer just be Jewish! No wonder Jews have the largest number of Christians in the world lol. Even Jesus's people only use him for excursions and tourism.

Trinity has distinct roles. How does this make sense to you all? The father is in heaven! The son can come to earth and be born as a human! The father can send both the son and spirit around! Can the father come to the earth like the son did? Can the son/spirit send the father around like He does them?

Jesus is not All-knowing! Even the spirit too! Jesus had to get close to the fig tree to know it had no fruit.

Alhamdulillah!

Since U relying on Jewish interpretation of the scripture to debunk Christians...if I bring evidence from Jewish scriptures that confirms the trinity is true would U accept it?

atoliman:
This is what the Afghans wanted anyway. When the USA was fighting the Taliban, they were supporting The Taliban instead of the US. No school for women, now no windows. They should enjoy the Islamic state

Yet U would see Muslim women in the west supporting establishment of Islamic state.

Taliban leader bans windows overlooking places 'usually used by women'

Afghanistan's Taliban leader has ordered that new residential buildings are constructed without windows looking onto "places usually used by women" and said that existing windows with such views should be blocked to prevent "obscene acts".

The Taliban's supreme leader has issued an order banning the construction of windows in residential buildings that overlook areas used by Afghan women and saying that existing ones should be blocked.

According to a statement released late Saturday by the Taliban government spokesman, new buildings should not have windows through which it is possible to see "the courtyard, kitchen, neighbour's well and other places usually used by women".

"Seeing women working in kitchens, in courtyards or collecting water from wells can lead to obscene acts," according to the decree posted by government spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid on social media platform X.

Municipal authorities and other relevant departments would have to monitor construction sites to ensure it is not possible to see into neighbours' homes.

In the event that such windows exist, owners would be encouraged to build a wall or obstruct the view "to avoid nuisances caused to neighbours", the decree states.

Since the Taliban's return to power in August 2021, women have been progressively erased from public spaces, prompting the United Nations to denounce the "gender apartheid" the administration has established.

Taliban authorities have banned post-primary education for girls and women, restricted employment and blocked access to parks and other public places.

A recent law even prohibits women from singing or reciting poetry in public under the Taliban government's ultra-strict application of Islamic law. It also encourages them to "veil" their voices and bodies outside the home.

Some local radio and television stations have also stopped broadcasting female voices.

The Taliban administration claims that Islamic law "guarantees" the rights of Afghan men and women.

Now it official, islamic Taliban govt doesn't want women to see the world, they also do not want the world to see women.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20241229-taliban-leader-bans-windows-overlooking-women-s-areas

Civilisation and technology advancement started in mesopotamia and the Sumeria region- modern day Iraq and possibly Syria.
From there it spread to the levant region and Africa. It seem an independent civilisation also came up in china and influenced the surrounding territories.

For example, the writing system was developed by the Phoenicians who lived in the levant region, china also developed it's own writing system. All other forms of writing came out of these 2. The white man in Europe didn't develop any writing system but simply copied what was already invented.

The European civilisation wasn't that spectacular until the 17th century when they made some fundamental changes to how they govern themselves.

Prior, whatever the whites achieved was at par with either previous or contemporary civilization.

After the fall of the Byzantine empire, the islamic caliphate quickly surpassed anything Europe had achieved. The Muslims conquered Spain and Portugal, they introduced concept of public hygiene and sanitation, they established universities- something that was unknown to whites, and advanced science in areas of chemistry, medicine, physics and mathematics.

By the 13th century, the ottoman empire was the largest and most powerful empires in the western hemisphere.

However, by the 16th century things changed in Europe. The church and it's inordinate influence on everyday life was terminated. Free thinking was promoted and innovation independent of some archaic beliefs was encouraged.
Judeo-Christian values was deeply promoted leading to the concept of human rights and the idea that all citizens are equal irrespective of status. However, using bible to correct science was abolished, and schools were allowed to teach practical science based on nature and discovery leading to rapid expansion of knowledge and intelligence amongst the citizens.

Feudal and baron system of Govt was replaced by common and civil law. These brought about for the first time the concept of capitalism. People now realised if they work hard enough, they could be rich and no one was coming to steal their wealth.
Ideas flourished, people were motivated to fry new things. Some like Christopher Columbus believed if he could travel far, he would discover an alternate route to India and avoid the ottoman route which was riddled with heavy taxation. That thinking led to discovery of vast new land called America.

This inclusive economic principle flourished in Europe while the rest of the world got stuck with extractive economic system- you work hard but the ruler collects most of the gain.
In Europe, an intelligent person can come up with a disruptive innovation that could alter the dynamics of the society e.g industrial revolution. The rest of the world need to ask the king for permission for anything disruptive and if he says no, that's it.
It's only a matter of time the white man would be ahead the rest of the world- far far ahead and of course, the white man made sure the rest of the world got punished for their indolence.


White man's advancement has nothing to do with climate or some hybrid DNA. They simply created a system that allows innovation and independent thinking to flourish.

Something the black society is yet to understand in the 21st century.
Look at the Tinapa project by Donald duke in calabar, a game changer for tourism in Nigeria. Customs n greedy FG killed it because they were worried Tinapa resort will lead to loss of revenue into the federation account.
Tinapa that was meant to be African Dubai was killed because some clueless leaders couldn't envision beyond import duty as source of revenue for a country.

Black man's lack of development has nothing to do
with his climate or topography. Ancient Egypt had similar terrain but they flourished.
It has everything to do with our lack of foresight and lazy creative thinking.

We also too fetish in our thinking and has failed to separate our beliefs from our thinking faculty. It's ok to have a religious belief but it should never cloud our sense of logical thinking and analytical reasoning.

As we can see, the Asians are now gradually building a working system for themselves- a hybrid of indigenous capitalism and Asian cultural values stemmed out of Confucianism; and it's actually working out for them.

Building a successful civilization is not rocket science in the 21st century. The template is open for all to copy and replicate. All the black man needs is to develop a working system suited for his environment and culture.

Musty112:
If only he had known being in jail will save his life. Now, he has reached what he put forward

Russian prison is brutal. People rarely gets out without being maimed or having any disability.

Qasim6:
Do you find it unjust that God does not want to throw into hell Jews and Christians that are genuinely following ways He himself sent guidance for?

So what's the relevance of Muhammed and the book he brought, if I can continue to follow the old ways and still be saved?

If the old ways are still relevant, what then is the usefulness of Muhammed?

Qasim6:
The injeel was meant to make lawful for them some of the things that were previously unlawful, either some things they made unlawful for themselves or some things God made unlawful previously like not keeping the Sabbath. And to provide more commentary on the laws of the Torah. So the injeel was just an extension of the Torah.

Well, It is not just Black and white, there are gray areas in between. The fact is there are still Jews and Christians till today and God indeed sent down scriptures to that effect.. so if there are Jews and Unitarian Christians till today that are following their religion because that is the way they truly find convincing then I believe they are the ones their truth will benefit as described Q5:117-119

Q5:119
God will say, “Today, the truthful will benefit from their truthfulness. They will have Gardens with flowing rivers, where they will abide forever. God is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. That is the supreme triumph!”




If anyone intentionally want to reject the message of Islam despite knowing that prophet Muhammad is a true prophet of God by choosing to be Jew, Christian or whatever then they should be ready to face the consequences, They are the real Kuffar. God can not be deceived.

So in effect U saying it's ok according to the Quran for Jews and Christians to continue using the gospel and Torah respectively if they reject Muhammed as a prophet.

What we seeing here is U don't even need to follow the Quran to believe in Allah.
Just say 'I believe in monotheism' and pick any scriptures to suits your fancy and U good to go.

Believing in Muhammed or Quran is not compulsory to worship Allah.
Muhammed is the one that imposed himself on believers as a must.

Reading the Quran, it's very clear Allah has no problem with believers rejecting prophets if they dont like the prophet.

The Jews rejected Jesus and his injeel, and Allah approved such ridiculous decision.
In the Quran, Allah told the Jews to continue using the Torah for guidance- a book that was corrected and modified by the injeel.

Common sense should tell us Jews are to judge by the latest book brought to them which is the injeel BUT almighty Allah told the rabbi to use the defective Torah to judge!!!!

Why would U think the Jews would take the Quran serious when Allah already allowed them to denigrate the works of Prophet ISA?

And why should I as a Christian abandon the gospel for Quran, when Allah supported the Jews who abandoned the injeel for the Torah.
Worst of all, I would become Unitarian Christian and continue using my gospel for guidance.

Don't let any one lie to U...U don't need Muhammed to be a believer.
U dont even need the Quran to be a Muslim according to their own definition of 'muslim'.

Just pick any of the previous book and believe in one God and U have done well in the sight of Allah.
Believing in Muhammed or the Quran is not a must.

That's the confusion in the so called final universal religion.


Let me call more Muslims to come and defend this confusion.
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Qasim6:
In as much as prophets came with messages that supersede the previous revelation. The core message of their revelations which is the most important is always believe in God and all your worship should be directed to God and they (the prophets) are just messengers and servants of God. This message was never abrogated and will never be abrogated.

Duet 6:4
Hear, O Israel, The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the ONLY TRUE God, and Jesus Christ, whom YOU HAVE SENT.

Q 21:25
We never sent a messenger before you ˹O Prophet˺ without revealing to him: “There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Me, so worship Me ˹alone˺.

For Jews that live after Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad, the most important thing is do they still hold to the most basic tenet 'Believe in one God and directing all their worship to God' and do they remain Jew base on the fact that that is the only way they find convincing and not that they reject the message of the last 2 prophets out of pride and arrogance or worldly gains.

For Christians the most important thing is believing in one true God and Jesus as the messanger of God and are they Christians because that is the way they truly find convincing and they are not just following man-made doctrines and not that they reject the message of the last prophet out of arrogance or because of worldly gains. You can check Qur'an 5:117 till the end of the chapter for context.



Q2:62
Indeed, the believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabians—whoever ˹truly˺ believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve.

Q5:48
We have revealed to you this Book with the truth, as a confirmation of previous Scriptures and a supreme authority on them. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their desires over the truth that has come to you. To each of you We have ordained a code of law and a way of life. If Allah had willed, He would have made you one community, but His Will is to test you with what He has given ˹each of˺ you. So compete with one another in doing good. To Allah you will all return, then He will inform you ˹of the truth˺ regarding your differences.

U guys are setting a dangerous precedence with your justification of Jewish rejection of the injeel.

The injeel was sent to the Jews and actually corrected the Torah. But Jews continue to use an out of date book for guidance and Allah is saying he's ok with it.

Not only did Allah approved a defective book for guidance and judgement; Allah also undermined the authority of one his prophet by accepting the idea of people rejecting prophets sent to them.

That's what it looks like when he tells Jews to judge by the Torah and not the injeel. Allah embraced the decision of Jews to reject the injeel rather than reprimanding them.

Why then do U think Jews will embrace the Quran when they were not punished for rejecting the injeel?
Instead they got the nod from Allah to continue judging with the tawrat.

And Why do U think Christians won't jump on that loop hole created by Allah and also reject Muhammed and hold onto the gospel?

If the issue is all scripture sent by Allah talked about oneness of God, then all I need to do is become a Unitarian Christian and continue with my gospel. I have no business with the Quran.

haekymbahd:
You saw in that verse that those who came to pro. muhammad (S.A.W) for judgement were Jews and not Christians meaning they claim not and never to believe in any other book apart from Torah...

Allah was referring to those set of Jews who came to Muhammad for judgement and claiming they believe only in Torah...

But according to Quran the people of the scripture (Jews) must judge with both Torah and Injeel and Quran by merging its teachings..


"Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people."
(QS. Al-Maaida 5: Verse 68)

Are U guys for real!!!
So if I don't believe in Quran, Allah would tell me to judge by injeel or tell any Jews to judge by the Torah!!!

So are U saying Allah is ok if I reject the Quran and choose to have guidance from the gospel.

Are U saying Allah felt it was ok for the Jews to reject the injeel and continue to use the tawrat for guidance?


What U guys don't understand is your argument undermines the authority of Prophet ISA who was sent to the Jews.

Besides Allah said rabbi and Jewish scholars should judge by the tawrat!!!! He didn't mention the injeel.

Allah already corrected the Torah with new laws in the injeel. Yet he told rabbi and Jewish scholars to judge with a defective Torah!!!

If Jews reject the injeel, should Allah also join them in rejecting the injeel!!!

This is serious confusion.

3.50. ‘And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Tawraat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me’”

Indeed, We revealed the Torah, containing guidance and light, by which the prophets, who submitted themselves to Allah, made judgments for Jews. So too did the rabbis and scholars judge according to Allah’s Book, with which they were entrusted and of which they were made keepers. [/b]So do not fear the people; fear Me! Nor trade my revelations for a fleeting gain. And those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed are ˹truly˺ the disbelievers.
5.44



Btw people of the scriptures is not just the Jews. Stop lying.
Christian, Sabeans and Jews were all called people of the scripture in your Qur'an.

haekymbahd:
The Quran simply didnt tell Jews to choose Torah over Gospel but they have to believe both else their faith isn't complete... In Islam we can't believe in a prophet and disbelieve in another prophet from God we have to believe in all...


"Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people."
(QS. Al-Maaida 5: Verse 68)

Mathew 5
17. “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

It's like U guys don't get it.
The injeel corrected the Torah for the Jews after Jesus era. The injeel is the better book for judgement.

3.50. ‘And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Tawraat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me’”


Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his Tafseer (2/44):

Tawraat and Injeel: The Tawraat is the Book that Allah revealed to Moosa ibn ‘Imraan, and the Injeel is the Book that Allah revealed to ‘Eesa (peace be upon them both). ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) followed them both. End quote.

He also (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

“confirming the Tawraat (Torah) that had come before him” means, following it, not going against what was in it, except in a few matters where he explained to the Children of Israel that concerning which they differed, as Allah tells us that the Messiah (peace be upon him) said to the Children of Israel: “and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you”.

Hence the sounder view among the scholars is that the Injeel abrogated some of the rulings of the Tawraat. End quote.

Tafseer Ibn Katheer (3/126)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/116826


But Allah kept telling the Jews to judge by the Torah and not the injeel.

But how is it that they come to you for judgement while they have the Torah, in which is the judgement of Allah? Then they turn away, [even] after that; but those are not [in fact] believers.
Quran 5.43
Indeed, [b]We revealed the Torah, containing guidance and light, by which the prophets, who submitted themselves to Allah, made judgments for Jews. So too did the rabbis and scholars judge according to Allah’s Book, with which they were entrusted and of which they were made keepers. [/b]So do not fear the people; fear Me! Nor trade my revelations for a fleeting gain. And those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed are ˹truly˺ the disbelievers.
5.44

Allah told Jewish scholars and rabbi to judge based on the Torah!!! When Jesus already brought modified laws with his injeel!!!

Why are Jewish rabbi and scholars not judging by the injeel brought by Jesus for the Jews.

That's the confusion!!!!

AntiChristian:
This is outrageously false. Do you have evidence for these two paragraphs?

So are U saying Muslims during the time of David can choose to ignore the zabur and choose only the Torah for guidance.
Or Muslims during the time of Abraham can choose to ignore him and follow only Noah?
Is that what U saying ?

AntiChristian:
There's nothing cerebral or intellectual in all these!
Your answer is in the context and settings of your premises. There are Jewish communities then who did not receive the message of Jesus!

So injeel is not for all the Jews. I thought Jesus was a prophet sent to the Jews, even if he didn't reach some some communities what about his book, the injeel? That one too didn't reach all Jewish communities too?

Didn't your Qur'an say Jesus was sent to the children of Israel, where did it give exception for some Jewish communities?

3.49. And will make him [‘Eesa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): ‘I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, a figure like that of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah’s Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allah’s Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe.

AntiChristian:
The settings you quoted was for a judgement regarding stoning the adulter. The Jews knew the verse of stoning in their Torah but hid it. So they wanted the (Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam) to ratify another law which they chose for them. The Prophet exposed them and used their law for them. And the law was to stone Adulterers to death. This law is the same in the Torah and Islam.

So there's no law on adultery in the injeel? I thought Jesus adjucated over an adultery case in the injeel?
So the Jews couldn't use the adultery law in the injeel?

AntiChristian:
Jesus was sent to the children of Israel of his time and his message never reached all of them. So it's clear not all Jews will believe in Jesus.

99% of all Jews do not believe in Jesus. With such significant number who exactly did Jesus preached to among the Jews. Who among the Jews accepted him if he couldn't reach over 99% of Jewish community.
What is the relevance of a Muslim prophet sent by Allah if he couldn't pass his message across to 99% of his people?

AntiChristian:
In the same chapter Allah says what means:
Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 68:
Say (O Muhammad SAW) "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! You have nothing (as regards guidance) till you act according to the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), and what has (now) been sent down to you from your Lord (the Quran)." Verily, that which has been sent down to you (Muhammad SAW) from your Lord increases in many of them their obstinate rebellion and disbelief. So be not sorrowful over the people who disbelieve.

Stop the cap bro. Your scholars calls U a liar.
Jews b4 Muhammed were meant to follow the injeel because it abrogated some laws in the Torah.
The injeel modified the Torah.

3.50. ‘And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Tawraat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me’”


Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his Tafseer (2/44):

Tawraat and Injeel: The Tawraat is the Book that Allah revealed to Moosa ibn ‘Imraan, and the Injeel is the Book that Allah revealed to ‘Eesa (peace be upon them both). ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) followed them both. End quote.

He also (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

“confirming the Tawraat (Torah) that had come before him” means, following it, not going against what was in it, except in a few matters where he explained to the Children of Israel that concerning which they differed, as Allah tells us that the Messiah (peace be upon him) said to the Children of Israel: “and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you”.

Hence the sounder view among the scholars is that the Injeel abrogated some of the rulings of the Tawraat. End quote.

Tafseer Ibn Katheer (3/126)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/116826

Now if the injeel brought by Jesus abrogated some laws in the Torah, what book are Jews after Jesus meant to follow to ensure proper guidance from Allah? Injeel or Torah

haekymbahd:
Mathew 5
17. “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
19. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Then why did Allah tell the Jews to use the Torah for guidance and not the injeel.
Why did Allah give the injeel to Jesus if it was book not meant to be followed.
During the time of Jesus, which book were the Jews meant to follow - Torah or injeel.

According to Muslims, every Prophet sent to mankind came with a revelation that supersede the previous revelations brought by past prophets.
This mean believers must accept the final revelation sent to them until another revelation comes from Allah's messenger.

At least, this is the argument presented by Muhammed to the Jews and Christians when asked why they should follow him.


Muhammed argued since he was the final messenger of Allah, all believers of Allah must abandon their previous books and embrace the Quran.

However, when this argument is scrutinized and critically examined in the Quran itself, it becomes problematic and falls apart.

According to Muslims, Jesus was a messenger of Allah sent to the Jews with a revelation called the injil. This meant Jews during the time of Jesus were meant to follow the injil. Jews after the era of Jesus prior to revelation of Quran were also expected to follow the injil.


Then in the footsteps of the prophets, We sent Jesus, son of Mary, confirming the Torah revealed before him. And We gave him the Gospel containing guidance and light and confirming what was revealed in the Torah—a guide and a lesson to the God-fearing.
Quran 5.46

This shows the injeel supersede the torah for guidance and since Jesus was sent to the Jews, they were expected to be dependent on the INJEEL FOR GUIDANCE- NOT THE TORAH prior to Muhammed appearing on stage.

However, what we find in the Quran is Allah telling the Jews to use the torah for guidance. Allah confirmed in the Quran that the Jews should judge by the Torah- a book that should have been superseded by the Injeel.

But how is it that they come to you for judgement while they have the Torah, in which is the judgement of Allah? Then they turn away, [even] after that; but those are not [in fact] believers.
Quran 5.43
Indeed, We revealed the Torah, containing guidance and light, by which the prophets, who submitted themselves to Allah, made judgments for Jews. So too did the rabbis and scholars judge according to Allah’s Book, with which they were entrusted and of which they were made keepers. So do not fear the people; fear Me! Nor trade my revelations for a fleeting gain. And those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed are ˹truly˺ the disbelievers.
5.44

Now if we harmonise the above Quranic verses, what we deduce is the ff:
The Quran says Jesus was a legitimate prophet to the Jews and he brought the injeel for guidance.
Yet same Quran orders the Jews to retain their dependence on the Torah and not the injeel.
Therefore the Quran contradict itself in denying the supremacy of the injeel over the Torah.

That the Jews rejected Jesus as a prophet or Messiah should not be a reason why Allah would tell them to continue to use the Torah. If the Jews erred by rejecting injeel, should Allah approve such action for the Jews?

The Quran shouldnt validate such error but actually correct them by referring them back to the injeel for guidance.
Otherwise Allah would be seen as approving disobedience of his word and undermining the authority of one of the mighty prophets sent to the Jews.

This presents Allah as either a forgetful God or confused deity who seem contradict his own words or doesnt have adequate insight into his commandments OR takes his commandment with levity.

Muslims are welcomed to defend their Allah and present their case. Pls understand the argument b4 rushing to type. This is a highly cerebral and intellectual theological insight.


The question is this: WHY DID ALLAH TELL THE JEWS TO USE THE TORAH FOR GUIDANCE AND NOT THE INJEEL WHEN THE INJEEL WAS SENT TO THE JEWS AND WAS A REVELATION AFTER THE TORAH?

People would work if the wage is good. Good wages is a strong motivation for labour, that's one of the attractive tenet of western capitalism.
However, western capitalist in recent times have noticed from 'Asian style capitalism' that it's possible to pay shitty wages, but still get people to work without any impact on profit.

It's unlikely the locals tolerate such unproductive behaviour- they would rather stay at home and go on benefit.
Thus, the solution is to flung open the borders and allow for mass migration since such action depress labour wages- law of demand and supply. This is the nonsense Trudeau is trying to do in Canada.
Canada that was previously known for high wages now have hundreds lining up for 15 dollars/hour job.

Let's not even talk about the pressure on resources and public services such mass migration brings.

Mass migration has little or no benefit. It makes no economic or cultural sense. It creates far more problem than anything it's meant to solve.


The biggest complaint in UK right now is that your take home barely gets U to your street- that's because salaries in UK are very depressing, this has led to increase in number of poor people.
That scenario is coming to Canada soon....