₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Malcolm-X]But they're the pioneers of their unique presidential system of government, just as the British are the pioneers of the parliamentary system of government. And that automatically makes America the benchmark.



How much do we generate now despite having everything we need at our disposal? If a city like Queensland in Australia can generate 10,000MW, money shouldn't be an issue - we've just got our priorities wrong. They money they loot annually at the federal level is enough to generate 10,000MW.



How does building infrastructures/roads, security, and providing electricity equate to social warfare? These are the basic things needed for investments and industralization - no sensible investor would risk investing in a country that lacks them. They're the priorities - and they should be at the top-of-the-agenda. These things will have ricochet effect on the economy and a direct impact on the people - they're not social welfare programmes.[/quote]No it does not make America the benchmark, can you PLEASE stop with that armgument, it is utterly ridiculous. There is too much money in American politics, to much lobbying and corporate interest, huge coporations can influence the views of larger chunks of the populaltion through superpacs, we do not even know how much FOREIGN money gets into their politics, congress is lobby central etc. So why on earth would you use a system so corrupt as the benchmark when there are may other examples to choose from? Or doesn't France have a president anymore? Or you couldn't see South east asian countries or northern, european countries to pick from? Why this fixation on trying to force a corrupt American system as a paragon of democracy to make this elusive point fo yours?

General estimates for power GENERATION (not to even talk of distribution and the rest) in the DEVELOPED world is $1billion per 1000MW. What was our last budget please and what percentage of it beyond debt servicing and the rest was put towards capital projects? Can you please also stop with that argument, it is ridiculous. Power is a capital intensive investment. Sometimes when people make such callous statements I don't think they realise how POOR Nigeria really is. Again, compare budget of Nigeria to budget of that Australia that has been investing in power for decades that you are talking about. You need to be smart on power, creating the enabling environment to make the business viable, and letting the private sector take over, which is what this government has been working towards and I agree with that approach. The things you type are just . . . . You will build road, you will build hospital, you will build schools, you will give power, all in two years and I am guessing many times over in each state so it can touch all Nigerians. And I keep asking you with which money? These sound like really poor campaigning from yesteryears and from bad politicians today that will tell you they will give you everything without explaining how.

I see government being involved in everything as a means of impro,ving society even after they have SHOWN us they are terrible at is as a sort of welfarist approamch. Or are we all just dying to go back to mthe days of NITEL?

pyguru banned Sky Blue for https://www.nairaland.com/1073707/governors-fashola-only-one-fit/3#12548770. Ban expires at Today at 02:29:25 AM.

Straight forward question, why was I banned? The ban expired after one hour but that's not the point. You might as well post the reason on this board because I do not check the emails linked to my nairaland account. My posts are still there for all to see, so I would like to know what was so out of line. . . .Thanks.

Ikengawo: you're a smart man. People have to understand that a lot of the things they hate about nigeria and it's politics must happen for a reason. I don't believe that the corrupt in nigeria are evil, they're almost all doing what they have to do because the system is broken.

police officers even take bribes because their salaries are unsure and pathetic for someone risking their life every day. Teachers are taking bribes but at the same time they're not getting paid. So when i see a Tinubu or an Obasanjo im going to assess them with the say multidimensional eye. Yes they're corrupt but why and what are it's implications? Obasanjo freed Nigeria from permanent northern rule, but he couldn't do it unless he played harder ball than them and this required being corrupt and evil.

Tinubu now has the biggest shot of making Nigeria a multiparty state, and by using corruption has help transform Lagos.
Through out nigeria's history you learn we actually have few evil men, but several men that have to do evil things to keep the few evil men in check.

our coup plotters were often outraqed by corruption. our first coup was done out of outrage against disunity and tribal tension, Ojukwu declared biafra to save his people, buhari overthrow a government to end corruption and mismanagement.


but most of these men failed because they tried to invent the rules of the game instead of using the rules to beat the game. Tinubu and Obasanjo use the rules to beat the game and I can't hate them for that.

I think you glorify certain Nigerians way too much for your own good. Obasanjo fought Northern domination? How absolutely LAUGHABLE. Was that not the man that gave us Yaradua or are you one of those people that think he is so amazing he had psychic powers that could see the future and tell Yaradua would die to leave us with Jonathan? I bet when he was also fighting for third term it was all with altruistic intentions of staving off Northern domination. Phuleassssse.

It is such vainglorious worshipping of such characters that keeps leading us down the wrong path. This is not a conspiracy movie, pointing out godfatherism as an inevitable ideal to aim for in a democracy does not make you sound street smart just so you know. What do you think this people are going to do when they need to fall out of relevance, quietly take the back seat because they are the chivalrous characters you paint? Next thing we will soon start hearing the 'Abacha was a saint and necessary evil' line.

Eko Ile: When was the last time or any time Tinubu prevented fashola from doing all the things people all over Nigeria and the world are praising him for. Did Tinubu prevented fashola from building hospitals, roads, bridges, 15 water works, 17 skill acquisition centers, power projects, metro rail, water transportation, schools, best waste management and best emergency management agencies in west Africa? what exactly did Tinubu prevented him from doing other than picking the best man for the job to be the governor of Lagos state and lay good foundation for fashola to follow.?


You keep going on and on about Tinubu and godfatherism, but when. are you going to show us how Tinubu denied lagosians any thing?


Without tinubu, there won't be fashola as the governor of Lagos state and their won't be Lagos state under fasholas party talk less being the governor. Simply put, Tinubu fought OBJ for 8 years and defeated him by wrestling Lagos state away from pdp and he's still taking bullets for Lagos state and protecting Lagos state and whole region from worthless people like the pdp.

You can call tinubu what you want, its your prerogative, but he means more to lagosians than your godfather nonsense.

Let us say Tinubu was the only way through which Fashola could ever become governor of Lagos state for argument sake. There is a reason it is called a necessary EVIL. It is not something you hold as an ideal to aspire to, it is something you manage till something better comes along and that is how I see Tinubu. For some reason people get unecessarily emotional when anyone points out that such is not the ideal way a democratic process is meant to work (does ACN even have primaries?) when it is simply stating the obvious.

Ok, Tinubu got Fashola into power as governor, now lets assume Fashola become president, what role would Tinubu play in national affairs then? Isn't that a legitimate question? Ibori funded Yaradua into power and see how much power he wielded when Yaradua was alive, there were so many reports about him being the defacto ruler of the country. Sure that is a bit of an extreme case, but are these concerns not at all legitimate to you when people consider the current workings of things in Nigeria and what has been a history?

malcolmx1: You listed policies the average Nigerian don't really care about to buttress your point. Are those policies the most urgent priorities? Why can't the federal government develop the power programmes, rather than wait for the states? The last time I checked, the national grid is controlled by the federal government. The federal roads are dilapidated, yet you're talking about custom waivers and agriculture - like who gives a hoot about them? Would custom waivers and agriculture bring investments into the country, industralize the country, or have immediate impact on Nigerians? Don't highlight obscure elitist policies to buttress your points, it shows you have nothing solid to argue about. Talk about misplaced priorities!

What's the population of Akwa Ibom vis-a-vis its monthly allocation? Not taking anything away from Akpabio, but any mediocre would achieve the same success in a state like Akwa Ibom.

And America is the benchmark for Nigeria because we practise America's style of government/democracy!

America is not the only country that has a congress and president, having such a system does not automatically make you the paragon of the democratic ideals either so you can get rid of those unnecessary exlamation marks.

If you think that just pouring more money into power in the way of projects is the way to go then you are already losing the argument and I can only take solace in the fact that Fashola would probably not be so careless in approach, especially at a time when we are saying less government in such matters is better.
But out of interest how much money do you think Nigeria would need to spend to be able to generate say . . . 10,000MW which some people estimate is what would be needed to just about meet domestic (not industrial) demand? Compare that to how much we budget yearly as a nation please. How long do you think it takes to build a power plant?

The reason why I mentioned custom waivers and agriculture is because it showed the kind of CRITICAL THINKING I know Fashola would be able to understand, and no, those are not mindless nothings. But according to you, in a country known for inflated contracts, et al, you panacea to the ills of the nations is social welfare. You see what I mean? Again, how many world class hospitals and schools are you going to build in EACH state and how much do you think that is all going to cost? Meanwhile how would you be generating revenue to drive all these? When I say you might have a rather simplified view of what it takes to run Nigeria you will take it as an insult.

But please, if you want to garnish yourselves with different power projects being worked on now (which I didn't bother to post), you can get that information yourself, there has been a list floating about for sometime.

pyguru banned Sky Blue for https://www.nairaland.com/1073707/governors-fashola-only-one-fit/3#12548770. Ban expires at Today at 02:29:25 AM.


Firstly, pyguru why was I banned, what did I do on this thread that broke the rules or was so bad, indulge me please.

naijayankee: Let me also add more to what I said above, there is no transformation going on in Lagos or any part of Nigeria. If you want see what transformation is, maybe go to Malaysia and some other countries. The amount of money given to Lagos from the federal govt added to what the state generate is more than 4 times most cities going through transformation has. The problem is the inability to do without god fathers and say no to corruption. Nigeria needs mayors and reps appointed by the ordinary people without taking bribes. If all these aren't addressed, we would be where we are in the next 20yrs while other poor nations who are serious continue to develop and go through real transformation. There's no miracle to transformation, it takes dedication, hard work, honesty, jailing immediately without bail people who are found guilty of corruption for 20yrs minimum and cooperation of the citizens.

I might even argue that the one in bold is most important after leadership.

[quote author=Malcolm-X]Democracy/politics is about godfatherism and people with vested interests - and that's the way it's all over the world. If democracy was about credibility and openness, I don't think America would be a two-party state(with Democrats and Republicans), or the UK(with Labour and Conservatives). However, I can also argue that godfatherism/vested interest is the bane of those two "advanced" countries - and that's why their democracy has survived for that long.

Lagos is Nigeria! What impact do you really need to make in the Nigeria, other than provide good roads, security, electricity, amenities, and create people oriented policies?? Nigerians are survivors and hard-workers - they don't really need too much from the center. Governing a state as chaotic as Lagos, where it's difficult to see transformations - is more tedious than Nigeria.

Just give Nigerians good roads, electricity, and security - that's not something too difficult to do with the huge resources the country has![/quote]If America is the benchmark of democracy for you then you are already losing the argument.

Do you know that there are now a couple of better running train lines in the country with more apparently being developed? Are you abreast with all the advances we have made as a nation in building our agricultural base? What about custom waivers that have been put in place to encourage the importation of certain equipments that can be used to improve power supply and grow mechanised agriculture? How many people in Lagos have felt these changes? How many people on the street in Lagos know about this? Yet these are a couple of projects the federal government has been working on. But I bet you if you could pull off a working intracity train system (which is under development) in Lagos it would be felt by almost all Lagosians who would either use it or see it being used as evidence.

There is a HUGE difference between running Nigeria and running Lagos. It is not all about building roads and if I thought that was all Fashola was going to bring to the table then I would rather take Akpaibo thank you very much. You even went on a rant a post or two ago about how it would take more time to turn Lagos into this city of your dreams, how much more Nigeria if it was all about road building? What is the federal budget of Nigeria? Are you going to build roads in all states (not just lagos) at once so that people can see you are working? What money are you going to use to do it? Do you think the Nigerian government is that rich because we like to complain about corruption? It is mainly because we are NOT rich that corruption IS annoying. I think you might have a rather simplistic view of what it takes to run Nigeria (but that is only my opinion, no need to make it a thing).

You mention electricity, I would advise you to do some investigation into power programmes being developed by different state governments in the nation as a side thing, it might interest you.

[quote author=Malcolm-X]After carefully reading through the posts, my observation is that most of the posters against Fashola vis-a-vis Tinubu are either open tribalists, or closet tribalists. If the OP(who's an unrepentant tribalist) could summon the courage and drop everything he's notorious for on this forum, to give credit where it's due, I don't know why the rest of you can't do the same.

Fashola achieved everything he has done so far with Tinubu, and you can't talk about him, without mentioning Tinubu TBH. And if he's the best governor in the country right now(which he obviously is by far), then Tinubu also deserves some credit for mentoring him. As for those saying Lagos isn't Nigeria - you're right, Lagos isn't Nigeria because Lagos is more chaotic than Nigeria. If you can rule Lagos and make visible transformations, with initiatives that have received praises from the worst critics around the world - then Nigeria should be a walk-in-the-park. Lagos is Nigeria, period!!!

Akpabio has the luxury of a sparsely populated state with huge oil revenue. Enugu was the capital of the old Eastern region and it's sparsely populated as well. All Chime did was improve on what was already there, you don't need to be a magician to be able to do that. However, I think there are some worthy candidates up North we need to look at as well.

Take off your tribal glasses, and think critically for once!![/quote]

Sky Blue: Whatever makes you happy I guess, but try not to make it so easy on yourself even though it might be so easy and quite lazy for you to jump to such conclusions instead of trying to actually UNDERSTAND the reasons some might have.

Cast your mind back to years ago when Obasanjo was in power. Do you recall when the whole godfather thing was rife and ubiquitous in Nigerian politics? Do you recall Adedibu, a man who had no political office but wielded so much power in the way things were run that he was boasting about big men needing to come to his house to beg for ministerial positions. In that same era you had Igbenidion, Ibori, Odilli, Tinubu and co, or have you quickly forgotten? What about after Ibori left office during the Yaradua saga and he was even being interviewed by CNN because he was seen as the one calling the shots when the president could not be found, that didn't seem outrageous to you?

The irony is that godfatherism seems to be something being put to the background in the party that defined it years ago. So could it be that some people are so set on building on the democratic gains that any thought of having a person whose image and behaviour takes their mind back to a time when Donald Duke was the only reasonably performing governor by any indices and other states ravaged with political warfare seems retrogressive? Of course not, it has to be ethnically motivated since it is a view different from yours.

Let me also give you a hint on why some people find Buhari a difficult candidacy to swallow, he is an ex-military dictator and there is a certain school of thought that wonders whether we need to keep recycling leaders from our military pasts to move forward. Not everyone thinks like you, not everything has to be about ethnicity (although I would admit that there would be those for who that is the issue). You guys really freaking need to give it a rest already.

You guys should give it a rest with this 'anybody who does not agree with me is a tribalist' rant. Not everybody thinks like you. Why don't you face what are legitimate concerns? I have said on different occassions that if Fashola runs I might even campaign for him, but any hint of that Tinubu factor makes me uneasy, we should be growing past that era of godfatherism and all in connotes in the Nigerian context.

And again, running Lagos is NOT the same as running Nigeria. Think about it carefully. Lagos is the smallest state with a high population. One set on making an impact can really make an impact that touches many people's lives. Nigeria is a big and diverse country, unless you engage in changes in the system, you can't touch everybody's lives at once in a short time the same was you can do in Lagos. Plus there is much more to the presidency than project delivery.

emiye: All this Tinubu this Tinubu that around Fashola is pure Bulll Shhitt.

Stop pretending, remove your ethnic veil, and stop hiding under tinubu.

Your ethnic sentiments is the ROOT CAUSE why you think Fashola is not fit to be president.

Whatever makes you happy I guess, but try not to make it so easy on yourself even though it might be so easy and quite lazy for you to jump to such conclusions instead of trying to actually UNDERSTAND the reasons some might have.

Cast your mind back to years ago when Obasanjo was in power. Do you recall when the whole godfather thing was rife and ubiquitous in Nigerian politics? Do you recall Adedibu, a man who had no political office but wielded so much power in the way things were run that he was boasting about big men needing to come to his house to beg for ministerial positions. In that same era you had Igbenidion, Ibori, Odilli, Tinubu and co, or have you quickly forgotten? What about after Ibori left office during the Yaradua saga and he was even being interviewed by CNN because he was seen as the one calling the shots when the president could not be found, that didn't seem outrageous to you?

The irony is that godfatherism seems to be something being put to the background in the party that defined it years ago. So could it be that some people are so set on building on the democratic gains that any thought of having a person whose image and behaviour takes their mind back to a time when Donald Duke was the only reasonably performing governor by any indices and other states ravaged with political warfare seems retrogressive? Of course not, it has to be ethnically motivated since it is a view different from yours.

Let me also give you a hint on why some people find Buhari a difficult candidacy to swallow, he is an ex-military dictator and there is a certain school of thought that wonders whether we need to keep recycling leaders from our military pasts to move forward. Not everyone thinks like you, not everything has to be about ethnicity (although I would admit that there would be those for who that is the issue). You guys really freaking need to give it a rest already.

Tosman12: helooooooooo, do u kno back in the 80/90s lagos almost become imposible to govern evn by the militry... Will u rather prefer the likes of jonah's cabinet rather dan tinubu?..... In nigeria today name one governor that has achive more dan fashola has done.... Do you have any idea what it means to restructure a populous resident area? Do u kno that lagos was once a lawless town,now it a town were law and order is maintain without militry effort?
If tinubi is the brainbox behind fashola abeg make we switch it with jonathan's brain box......
Ekoooo o no baje...

O boy, let us not overdo with the hero worship, go back an re read my post. It is natural to think of what a Fashola presidency would be like because out of all the poor governors we have, he stands out as ok. But just stating the obvious, which is that governing Lagos is NOT governing Nigeria and should never be equated to being the same thing. Being a good governor in Lagos does not mean you will be a good president of Nigeria, although I can understand why people would be tempted to think that way.

Prof Corruption: Ha ha ha ha

am I supposed to be surprised? Not a bit! You don't get it.

I don't discuss the nonsense of a presidential material or not that seems to be of interest to you. It's a fcking waste of time. I discuss manifestos, simple and clear. That Fasola is successful in Lagos does not suggest, even remotely, that he ll shine at national level. It has nothing to do with his ability. How many roads can he build in Nigeria within two years that will make us happy? How many Health centres etc? That's not our problem.Nigeria's problem is completely different from that of Lagos.

Our problem is the system of government we run in Nigeria. It makes states lazy, governors greedy and looters, the masses poor. If you put Bill Clinton, the acclaimed Mr Performer in Nigeria presidency, he will fail flatly except he begins by restructuring Nigeria to a workable federation. Nigeria problems do not demand competence, they demand men of uncommon courage that can forgo momentary sweetness of power, confront the conservative and clannish elite and return Nigeria to true federalism. If you are good but lack courage, you simply can't do the job. If you restructure Nigeria and then have folks like Fasola, all well and good.

Hear me loud and clear: I am saying if T.A Orji is campaigning on restructuring Nigeria but Fasola is mouthing road construction, electricity generation nonsense, T.A Orji simply becomes my candidate.


As regards your rantings on tribalism, here is my [b]love letter [/b]to you: who is fcking not a tribalist in Nigeria? Remember you did not attack Bashr8 for visiting toxic, wicked and satanic vituperation on Ikengawo for merely voicing his opinion but you chose to attack me for no other reason than responding to Bashr8 in cash and kind.

NEVER EVER thought I would ever be agreeing with you on anything but your post is right on point. That is why I still don't get the anger over Jonathan not reforming the Nigerian structure when he never ran on that platform. For the next election, any credible politician that can SIGN contractual agreement on delivering certain things within the first few weeks should seriously be considered. That is the reason why Atiku has been having my ears of late. People who want structural change should pursue candidates who are running on structural change or we are all just deceiving ourselves.

Eko Ile: Is Fashola asking you to vote for him to be your president?

Your Tinubu fixation is yours to consume and enjoy, but act like you have some common sense...

Thanks for your concern. Next!

Eko Ile: If the man is capable of doing what you admire him for with Tinubu in his life, I hope and pray that Tinubu remain in his life. Even sef, I thnk other leaders in Nigeria need Tinubu in their lives since his influence in Lagos is performing magic...

Governing Lagos is not the same as Governing Nigeria. If Tinubu is going to be in the background of the presidency of Nigeria then I am not interested, God forbid.

Easy to see why Delta State is yet to join the league of staes with comparatively progressive governments (for Nigerian standard). Hardly any talk about performance, proposed vision for way forward for the state, recods, NADA. Just who has big war chest and who is from whose party. Since when did parties in Nigeria start having ideals??

Ikengawo: I'm an igbo man, and I'm not against talk of an igbo presidency in the least way.
But I will say, if we must select from governors, the ONLY one fit to be president of the nation is Babatunde Fashola.

I say so because I don't believe he's the only governor that's performing and many can argue that others have out achieved him.
My main reason for saying what i'm saying is that Fashola is a modern thinker. He's the only governor that isn't playing 'catch up' with the rest of the world, but
also introducing ideas that are ahead of rest of the world's cities.

He's the poster child for dealing with urbanization world wide and every nation acknowledges this. The other 'good' governors are giving their states the things the rest of the
world has as a lower quality most of the time. Fashola is doing this and introducing new ideas, leading the path, and Nigeria will be nothing if it can't lead the world.

recently i saw on Channels TV that they're using recycled plastics to replace sewer covers. This is brilliant, and it's something nobody else has thought of. Using modern techniques and innovation to solve problems.
I respect Amaechi, Oshiomole, Sullivan, Obi, Lamido, Imoke, and Akpabio but i feel Fashola is the only innovator in this group and that's what Nigeria needs more than anything. He doesn't see himself as a 'nigerian governor' competing with nigerian governors, he's a international leader competing with the rest of the human race.



This is the mentality nigeria needs to head in a different direction. Igbos shouldn't be competing with Yoruba and Yoruba shouldn't be competeing with Hausa because we're all failing. Lets start competing with the Japanese, the Germans, the Turks the French and the Americans. Fashola represents a break away from 'village champion' mentality in Nigeria.

Agreed. That is ACTUALLY the reason I like Fashola, his innovative approach to some of the problems being faced by developing cities. Compared with some initiatives I have seen in countries like Indonesia, I won't rank Fashola as close to the top tier in this global innovative governance but AT LEAST he can attempt and he has shown DEEP THINKING behind some of his policies, working with tight financial contraints. Governing Nigerians is bad enough but Lagos is another thing. My only worry about him nationally is the Tinubu influence.

Lets see if Akpaibo can keep up pace of development in Akwa Ibom for another two years. I reserve my Amaechi commentary till end of the year when he said Port Harcourt would have twenty four hours power (he's made good headway in education and health though). The rest of the pack are neither here nor there. At least Fashola has maintained good pace since he got into office.

Non gubernatorial candidates that could be interesting that come to mind . . . . Nnaji. Would reserve commentary for Iweala till a year's time.

This is how it starts

[quote author=Kay-Dee]On Syria, what would you do differently from what is currently being done, if you wont be putting troops on the ground ?

I was listening for a solution in stark contrast to what the administration is already doing since Romney has been attacking Obama on this.
Ryan : *stammer* *stammer* *stammer* *stammer* blah blah, " we will not call Assad a reformer like Obama did" (BIG LIE) *stammer* *stammer* ; in the end nothing new. [/quote]So happy I am not the only one who picked up on that. At the end of all that the only thing he could come out with WAS a lie. Obama administration did not call Assad a reformer. People just fall too easily for that innocent looking face. That is why I was more disappointed with Ryan, he was looking so innocent and LYING through his teeth - your TYPICAL politician, he will kill you and smile while doing it. If only Ron Paul was running.

Nigerians really need to keep an eyes on the NASS. Comments like - 'we won't be your rubber stamp' are all well and good, AS LONG AS you don't block progress just because you don't want to be seen as being a rubber stamp. This is Nigerians we are talking about after all, egos and pride in that country know no bounds.

LEADERSHIP of NASS always seems to be at loggerheads with the executive FOR POLITICAL POWER, INSTEAD of actually doing the freaking jobs. They made no mention of any such thing as sovereign national conference, but once the presidency mentioned it, they got angry and said why did he say it when it is NASSs job to do something of that sort. The LEADERSHIP of NASS needs to be watched, I don't think Nigerians have spread the blames for the woes of the country enough. We should focus on the executive yes, but what on earth are NASS and the judiciary doing? No one said being a citizen was easy but we need to rise to the challenge because we have a role to play in this democracy. I have very little confidence in the leadership of the national assembly (both houses), they play politics with every darn thing, it is nauseating.

thelastPope: Follow the trend online. There has been a lot of fact checking since the debate. Ryan was mostly correct. Biden was mostly wrong. But he was a better debater than Ryan. The laughing thing spoilt his dominance

Park your bias to the side for a moment, they BOTH did it:
http://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-slips-vice-presidents-debate-023354584--election.html

Don't let those big eyes and innocent face fool you.

thelastPope: romney didnt do it throughout the debate. Like I said, Biden was better in the debate. am just stating why Ryan won the CNN polls. You can check out the comments of Piers Morgan, who actually gave it to Biden. You are right to say he has helped the Obama downward spiral. But that is more with giving fire to the dems than winning undecideds. But it is a good start

And Romney interrupted Obama AND the guy chairing it THROUGHOUT the debate. The irony is, I actually liked Obama's approach to the debate. It seemed honest and open to a discussion. It wasn't about POINT SCORING. But Romney wasn't interested in that, he went into it with an agenda to score as many points as possible and Americans liked that. So Obama has now learnt that for the next one he should do the same. And sadly, Americans can't see that they will always remain the losers in all that point scoring, cheap politricking and cat fighting. I hate that part of the political process, and perhaps that is why I wouldn't easily fall into politics. I don't see everything as an opportunity to take shots, score points and be partisan, especially not at the expense of an HONEST discourse.

thelastPope: The reason Ryan won the CNN polls is because what many of you are praising actually put off most independent voters. Biden wanted to use laughter as disdain tactics to bully Ryan, but he did it continuously till it became offensive to many people. They saw it as unserious and condecending. Ryan was young and simple but very articulate. He was nervous too. But he had real appeal. Biden wanted to do the Romney thing but he fluffed it. Democrats loved it but independents didnt like it. The democrats have to be careful because the independents determine most elections. Most of the counters by Biden was also false. He said a a lot of false facts.

So did Ryan, and that was more disappointing. He looked all innocent and naive to the ways of American politics, but had no trouble spinning a few lies of his own with that innocent mien of his.

ayo jango: Biden showed ryan he started politics even bfor he was born.Ryan was subdued and looked scared he hardly looked biden in d face
Seemed his eyes were gonna pop out from their sockets n his body language ws so poor.Biden won confidence by laffin n givin faacts.

Ryan looked so rough from his Tie to his shirt and hair cut

That was the sole redeeming quality of Biden to be frank, that after Ryan would put out seemingly polished arguments, Biden would come back to deconstruct them based on evidence (for most but not all of the time). And let us be honest, none of us could fact check positions of either candidates as they carried on LIVE during the debate. And to be honest, I am not a fan of the current political process. I am not a fan of a process that encourages one liners and snappy retorts at the expense of an HONEST and perhaps UNREHEARSED debate. It is the reason why politicians are so hard to trust. And there is definitely too much money in American politics. Heck in the UK political parties are not even allowed to campaign on TV. But all you see in American politics is division, and shoddy campaigning that leaves voters still uninformed and puts sound argument and discourse in the background. You saw what happened when Obama seemed to try to bring a genuine discourse and debate to the process. He was deemed as failing because Americans want the glitz and chair throwing and dirt of it all, and YET also complain about how poor and dirty the process is. They have what they want without knowing it - and at the expense of their 'democracy'.

[flash=200,200]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3roG09O6T4[/flash]

violent: ^^

Lol. I'm betting Ryan felt he could pull off Romney's type victory with Biden. One thing about Old politicians is that you don't get to beat them easily in an argument. Just think about arguing with your old Uncle.

Obama is 51 yrs old, Romney is 65

Biden is 69 and Paul Ryan, 42.

Most of the time, you don't stand a chance when the person you are debating has the Old Uncle figure. Imagine what a debate with Ron Paul would have been like...neither Romney nor Obama could have lived to tell the tales of such hurricane!

Ahhh Ron Paul. The best president America never had. That is a man who actually HAS principles and would actually take America on a DIFFERENT course. Democracy in certain countries like Britain and America tend to throw up candidates that are TOO ALIKE in policies and proposed direction. It is a stain on the republican party that for ALL the times Ron Paul has come out he has been treated APPALINGLY by the party as the old crazy Uncle that talks rubbish. In all honesty, NO presidential aspirant has ever made MORE SENSE than Ron Paul, just listen to him speak. AND he has been CONSISTENT for the past like three of four decades. Ron Paul is a man I have great respect for.

One of the definite highlights:
Biden paraphrase - 'I love my friend Ryan here but I don't understand why he keeps on going on about stimulus being a bad thing, when he sent me two personal letters begging for some stimulus money for his constituency because he felt it would help grow their economy'

That was a real slap in the face I just couldn't stop laughing for like a whole minute as Ryan sat sheepishly in the corner. Men, that was bad. If Biden had done the debate for Obama perhaps Romney would still be trailing far behind.

To be honest this whole Bakassi issue can be resurrected on a technicality. If the national assembly didn't approve something as important as cedding of Nigerian territory then Nigerian did not approve it. The Nationaly Assembly is there for a reason. And technically speaking, going by that line of thought, we haven't cedded anything.

mapet: Let me go straight to some key issues

1. You're entitled to your opinions, so no biggie
2. I'm tempted to believe that the crux of this thread is lost on you. First off, thank God that a non Osun, a non ACN member and the head of the Senate committe on education gave the verdict after an assessment. I am not too certain how many of such has been given by the same body. So if you point out that the best reform you saw were some few things, all well and good. I would have thought an understanding of Chukwumerije's statement bothering on translation of policies into strategy and action is the laudable effort. Besides, it is not compulsory that all the 18point be implemented in 1day or 1 year. what is important is that a sustainable foundation is laid and continually built upon.
3. With regards to the students in Ukraine, except you're on a journey in self deceit, then it should not be lost on you that the state government had done something noble and responsible with the situation all involved found themselves. First who's fault was it to enrol students on medical program when they were not ready to put in place the requisite teaching hospital and get it accredited. So you expect the state government to now leave the huge problem of Osun State medical students being in limbo and then be discussing some useless bond?
4. Please insult me as you wish, but if you care to check, the OP came into this thread with facts. Even Funkymallan that was challenged to do same did. Yet you expect us to gobble some unverified statements that they should have accessed grants from international bodies. Even at that, humour me a little; what is the correllation of "Research Grants" with the government's cost of running a state University. Is that what research grants used for to you
5. If you're still battling with how the state could have funded the 18 action point in the policy, i'll tell you that the summit itself had charged a sub-committee with the task of fund-raising strategies. I keep saying it that we take the easiest route of general critisism without critically looking at contents and workings of institution,yet we end up talking from an uninformed view

You have been unable to actually tackle the ISSUES raised, and the part in bold SAYS A LOT.
I will try and pick off the points one by one. Points 1 and 2 require no response, Chukwumerije is free to say what he wants, it won't be the first time a politician is praising another politician in Nigeria but unless he can specifically tell us what he is praising I hold his praise in little regard (afterall didn't Odilli win best governor awards in this same Nigeria?).

Now point 3. Social policies generally tend to be noble, and yes people should try to be noble, governments should also try to be noble. However, you have a situation where you are sending students abroad, with no commitment or obligation for them to come back and contribute to the state that helped them, thereby adding to the BRAIN DRAIN in the country and you expect me to praise blindly? You see no problem with that? He could not help the students through an agreement with another state in Nigeria get into a teaching hospital there? You speak about being 'noble and responsible'. Well, it might have been noble but it was definitely IRRESPONSIBLE.

Point 4. Research grants are ONE of the ways Universities of repute generally source funds. It helps Universities FOCUS on the actual purposes of a University which Nigerians falsely believe to be just teaching (clue, the main purpose of Universities are RESEARCH that add to society, teaching is even secondary in some cases - this is the way it should be). This is the reason why our Universities remain backward, they add very little to the society apart from graduates that have learnt to cram. The job of Government should not be to run a University neither should Osun's because quite frankly speaking, they cannot afford it. What the government could have done was to keep contirbuting funds WHILE working with the University in Osun as well as with International bodies to see what they could attract with regards to investments in the University. This is NOT unheard of.

Point 5. The very last sentence is not worth responding to but I will tackle the earlier. The part in bold tells me you know how silly it sounded for government to be mouthing all these social programs while cutting the very little income secondary and tertiary institutions make from fees and expecting quality to increase at the same time (so I wonder who really is being deceitful here). If the government is able to source the funds without taking significantly away from other areas like infrastructure, health, etc, then FINE. Although I would BET YOU that following this path is NOT sustainable (are they going to be doing fundraiser and bake sale every semester to barely keep the University running?). It's funny how you would want to give me a lecture on how and how not to critique initiatives when you are unable to provide these 'facts' you keep going on about that ADDRESS the REAL ISSUES raised.

The defence you keep coming back to is 'well Chukwumerije must have seen something different'. WHAT DID HE SEE? If you can't answer that question and let us see what he sees but just expect us to trust he saw something anyway then go look for somebody else. I have no reason to wish Osun state bad, if he does well he does well, and yes it is subjective (in some cases), and this is my subjective view backed by issues raised. Try to ADDRESS the issues or admit that the government is willing to proceed with these issues remaining untackled. Keep seeing sending students abroad to learn in and develop Ukraine as achievement, that is your prerogative.

mapet: Oga Sky Blue....

Please check my reactions in the bolded underlined part.

I will simply address the main differring views.

The best reform in all I saw was in the primary school sector which I pointed out - so it was irrelevant going into that. I stand my ground on there being little improvement in quality of education with the outcomes posted in secondary and tertiary institutions. Apart from manufacturing in Osun, what do they actually bring to the educational process of secondary and tertiary institutions? I am also of the view that one solidly maintained and improved campus makes more sense than seven poorly equiped village sites.

With regards to sending students to Ukraine, we need to fundamentally look at the purpose of education and the purpose of a University. If it can's contribute to society then it is worthless. Now, the students being sent off to Ukraine all expenses paid, are they under any obligation to return to the state to contribute to it meanigfully? If not then what on earth does the state gain, considering it is the state paying for this? Chinese students are helped by their government, study abroad AND return to China to add to development of that growing economy.

With regards to budget and whether the state can afford it, I find it a HUGE contradiction that you could postulate about the need for fiscal responsibility by 'plugging loopholes', and then challenge me to prove the state can afford it these social reforms. I really have to restrain myself so it does not seem like I am insulting you, but that is a tad silly. Like most states in Nigeria, Osun struggles with infrastrucure and insecurity among other vices. Money that is spent on schemes with lesser societal impact like sending students to Ukraine and a few others I did not bother to mention, is money that could have been spent on OTHER THINGS. No Nigerian state is in the position of having more money than it needs, hence the need for minimal WASTE.

I will pick the only main point raised in your last flurry of sentences. Bodies like the UN and international research bodies and NGOS normally have processes through which institutions can apply for grants. I know that such is possible because I have looked into the issue before (won't elaborate unless necessary). A lot of Universities in the west make most of their money from research grants.

klas: That is the problem that the national assembly is having with the operation of excess crude account. You will notice that national assembly turned blind eye to the operation of that account when OBJ introduced it without the backing of the law because then, it was truly excess. The revenue was far higher than the budgeted expenditure and since the constitution does not make express provision for savings (all monies in federation account must be shared (read spent)), the only means of circumventing that was to under-declare revenue.

Now this has been bastardized. Budgeted expenditure are deliberately made to be more than gross revenue yet govt wants to create the impression of saving by still under-declaring revenue and call it excess and at the same time borrow with interest to finance the deficit gap.

Recourse are made to excess crude fund even when oil price was not below the benchmark as had happened many times in the early life of this administration. The executive both at federal and states love this arrangement because it is a sort of extra-budgetary expenditure and still go ahead to borrow to finance the approved budget.

And it sounds like a loop hole the house and senate can close with effective legislature. So why cry for the sake of it and try to whip up uneccessary sentiment when it is in their powers and THEIR JOB to address the issue? I don't like the idea of under declaring revenue only to borrow and cover a fictitious gap when we can be SAVING the money. And the idea of the federal government automatically sharing money to the states is also highly questionable and unsound, BUT UNDERSTANDABLE considering the history of expensive budgets, money spent and nothing seen that has over time become synonymous with the modus operandi of the federal government.

klas: The tragedy is in fighting without a cause. You asked what are the legislators going to do with the 'extra' money. There is no extra money .

The budget is a deficit budget. Higher expenditure than the projected revenue which is to be financed by borrowing. What the legislators are asking for is that the deficit gap be reduced by increasing the benchmark by $5/barrel instead of transferring the artificial excess to excess crude account which will be spent without recourse to the national assembly and at the same time borrowing to finance the approved budget.

CBN and finance ministry have been speaking grammar on the advantages of saving and borrowing at the same time as opposed to the assembly stand of reduced saving and reduced borrowing. Afterall na person wey chop bellyful dey save excess.

Sound argument and sound logic. But what happens if oil prices don't hold above the $80 benchmark they are asking for? Will that not greatly hamper implementation since we would have to start running around for funding in such eventuality, or do we just assume we automatically move money from the excess crude account to finance the shortfall? Which state governor will agree to that?

asha 80: what you are forgetting is he psyche of the these children.they do not give a danm about doing the right things as the situation as it is favours them and their businesses.believe me i have mixed with some of them and do not give a rat ass about doing the right thing.

below are examples of your rich or politicians kids


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdq2KlQvyN4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHQcnSqFb7Y

CAN YOU IMAGINE? I genuinely felt DISGUSTED at those videos. People were actually run into by these silly stunts. That is one thing I dislike about Abuja. It takes the whole elitist thing to another level. These social ills are a ticking time bomb, and when they fully erupt in Nigeria, it WILL turn into a whole other thing. When the "have nots" who keep getting this opulence shoved in their faces decide to take on the "haves". . . .

May I be so bold as to propose that this man does not fully understand the nuances involved in running a state like Osun. If the state is finding it difficult to pay students bursary (a practise which I believe state governments should review and fine tune), then why even consider adding twenty something more local governments a priority? Where would all the money come from?

These things just DON'T add up, and I think he might be writing a bit too many populist cheques his budget can't support. Given the certain similarities with Ekiti state, I really believe a Fayemi type character would have been much more suited to running Osun. Things have to balance up.