₦airaland Forum

@KunleOshob,
Its obvious you have an opinion which I respect but please respect that of mine and others too.
You do not have absolute knowledge so like I said earlier stop acting like you are an absolute judge.

You have suddenly stopped talking about the Hebrews 7 scriptures you brought up which showed that tithes came before the law, was observed during the law and after the law. Or should I say your favourite scripture you misinterpreted to discredit tithe got busted

You believe tithing is a law so that's the reason for your last response and that is your opinion, the scripture you misinterpreted was all in your eagerness to discredit tithe. Or has my previous post not shown it so?

The person I asked my initial question has confirmed all he needed was a confirmation of his initial post which you have done so its alright.
May we not all perish for lack of knowledge not only in tithing but in other areas, its a prayer we should pray often on our quest for perfection.
Thank you.

@KunleOshob,
You have a right to your opinion.
At least that scripture shows before the law there was tithe (Heb 7:6) and during the law was tithe (Heb 7:5) and also Heb 7:8 shows that tithe remains though to a different type of priest not made by the law. That's apart from what Jesus said in Matt 23:23 which is valid.
This is proven from the very scripture you are using to discredit tithe in the first place.

I will still mention that most good things are twisted. God created man for his pleasure yet the devil twisted that purpose but God sent His Son to bring us back to Himself.
Since you have said you don't believe in tithe, so be it. Lets leave the rest to God.
Afterall, God has said He would judge them in the  Jeremaiah 8 scripture you quoted so quit doing that on His behalf. On the last day He will seperate the wheat from the weeds. Oh, just be patient.

As per all those that have walked, I am sure you quoted your own version of Heb 7 to them. If that makes you happy, thats sure a shame.
Also for all those having issues with tithe, why don't you have issues with offerings too.
Offerings are also given to God and paid in the church. Unless you now claim you don't even give offerings because the pastor of your church is rich

kenny888:
Yea i have gone through all the individual contributions,i have been so blessed. But what i observed is that snowwy is confused,he is just busy mixing the whole thing.

You started this thread yet I am yet to see the major contribution you have made. You didn't answer my question but yet you say everything is mixed up.
Maybe you should see the way KunleOshob, your mentor, keeps quoting scriptures and once he sees his misinterpretation has been busted he runs to another not bearing any semblance to the topic, thats what i call mixing up.
Very typical, I am not surprised. You have gotten the responses you wanted to use to confirm your initial post anyway.

@KunleOshob,
you can see where interpretation plays a major role in God's word. I have read, re-read and this is the 'commandment' you are talking about :

@snowwy
I decided to post the hebrew passge i mentioned which makes it clear that tithing is not meant for christians.

Hebrews 7:5-19:

   5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

   6But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

   7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

   8And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

New International Version
In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living.

New Living Translation
The priests who collect tithes are men who die, so Melchizedek is greater than they are, because we are told that he lives on.[i][/i]


   9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

   10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

   11If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

   12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

   13For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

  14For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

   15And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

   16Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

   17For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

   18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

   19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hope you noticed the correlation between verse 5 and verse 18, it is the same "commandment" mentioned in verse 5 that was anulled in verse 18, but your pastor wouldn't show you these parts of the bible becos of their love for filthy lucre.

Please pay cognisance to verse 16. 'WHO IS MADE' not after the law of a carnal commandment.
The priests were made then after the tribe Moses spake of concerning priesthood which are Levites.

This scripture shows that Jesus is our priest not after the carnal law of only Levites being priests but after the power of an endless life.

Thats the reason for the emphasis in Vr 17 and 21 below:
(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

That is the commandment here relating to verse 18.
Do re-read and let the Lord inspire you and don't be quick to judge this matter.

@Zikkyy, you sure are a good advocate for ogajim's I guess we should let him respond to what he posted though.
However, thanks for your posts. You do not have issues with tithes but the preaching of it.
The word of God is enough proof of His word. He will see us through.
Nice to chat with you.

@kenny888
Since you know I have a question for you, please scroll to page 6 for it?
However, a lot of 'concerned' posters have responded on your behalf and we have had quite a conversation.
Do scroll through and if you still need to add something, you are free.

Posted by: ogajim 

Snowwy Dude!

What you fail to understand is that God MANDATES Christians to help those around us Christian or not, I am not coming from the perspective of how it is spent, I am of the opinion it is not required, mandated or even encouraged. Can you count how many time Jesus Christ reiterated the need for us to love one another, honor thy father and thy mother, mercy, forgiveness, etc? Yet he only happened to mention tithe once in passing and you guys latch on to it?
The only motivation "Churches" have for preaching it is GREED, they have built this "magnificent edifice" and now need to tax their members to maintain and support operations when our Lord and savior DOESN'T live in Temples built with human hands.

Acts 7:48-49 (King James Version)

48Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

49Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Why was Stephen martyred?

Ogajim,
Just to respond to your question to me, what do you term 'in passing'? The same bible says we would be judged for every idle word. Please I don't want to assume you are saying that word is idle. . Jesus said it in case you are forgetting.

Before Jesus death he spoke to the pharises in Matt 23:23 which you say we latch on to.
Yet Jesus spoke to one of the pharises in John 3:1-17 about being born again while as you said 'still under the law' in your quote below:

Posted by: ogajim 

Snowwy, DUDE!

The malachi 3 that's been used over and over to fleece the flock has been reviewed thoroughly here on NL and found to be a fraudulent application in most of today's Churches as it was specifically directed at the Levites who took care of everything from Temple maintenance to administration for the Israelites.
When Malachi don't do the job, you guys retort to Abram's tithe to Melchizedek, etc enough already. God doesn't live in MAN MADE TEMPLES (remember that dude!)

The law was still in effect when Jesus made the comments in Matthew 23:23 and I wonder why you continue with it after he already fulfilled the LAW.

Unless you are telling us not to abide by John 3:1-17 too which Jesus admonished the pharisee since 'The law was still in effect' then
Do you see the way you are tangling yourslef more in a web of assumptions.
There are a lot of things Jesus said during His ministry on earth, please DO NOT MAKE LIGHT OF ANYTHING HE SAID!

We are meant to be more like Jesus and follow His teachings. What is so wrong therefore in people who honour their God with a tenth of their income then?
Your statement 'The only motivation "Churches" have for preaching it is GREED' is very wrong my dear. You don't have absolute knowledge of the church except you have turned yourself to God.
No one is forced to pay tithe. We all have a choice as God has given us to. You have a choice to follow God or not.
But the Way of Life is through Jesus and that you know. Thank God.

@nuclearboy,
why can you not do that i.e. stick bangers up people noses and set them off? Because you are a christian or the law could catch up with you?
All because people do not share your views or you are so angered by the church?
I gave some scriptures in my other post so I do not understand why you say I have no scriptural backing to what I said. Thanks you have showed us the helps you have been doing but don't assume its only you that help others. People pay tithe and still go all out to assist the needy. So whats up?
1. The tax example was an analogy. Tax is "ceasar's" and we all pay it except you say you don't. Mark 12:14-17
2. Pls check my previous post for the scripture verses I gave
3. You have been interpreting scriptures like I have so how have I decided on behalf of God. Please nuclear boy.
4. I gave the issue of the poor/needy as is seen in our world today just as you have seen the way the church/pastor's are flambouyant in lifestyle.
So what is the difference between what you are saying and what I am saying. You believe pastor's misuse tithes. Hello!
I said because some poor people misuse alms, does it mean we should still not assist the poor? Common!

You have just misinterpreted me.
Well its ok you know, God will lead us.

Let the reader consider this and pay his tithe to those who own it - according to God, the poor etc (who cannot pay you back themselves), then see if you will not find that reward that has eluded you till date. Paying to business pastors is the robbery Malachi 3 speaks of!

Hmmmmn! So we should still pay tithe after all your posts above?
And your interpretation of Malachi 3? So you are doing what you accused me of in your number 3 above. Typical!

@Enigma
Thanks. You have dissected my post earlier and given me some words of advice. Lets leave it as it is.
Cheers.

@nuclearboy,
It's ok. Please do not cry.
The major issue I have deduced form the thread is the lifestyle of the church as well as the way tithe is preached.
Thanks that has answered most of my questions.
But don't forget that taxes are paid  and most of the time embezzled by those in power but it does not make tax wrong. Jesus paid tax too.
Many 'professional' beggars too build houses from alms, some use the money for rituals/diabolic means which may harm the giver.
Does that make giving alms bad still?
Many people pose as sick meanwhile have other plans for the money you give them, yet should that mean we should not help the poor?
So you see where I have issues. Lets weight things using God's scriptures always.
I pray God directs us all to always do whats right.
Nice to meet you.

Thanks Enigma.
We are all confronted with biblical truths when we study the bible daily since we are not perfect.
Cheers and remain in Christ.

@Enigma
Thanks.  So my quote 'which is what he should part with first from his earnings to honour God' is a false doctrine?
Since God is first in our lives, should we not put Him first in all we do? Or 'the friend' that wanted to pay tithe, since we assume the friend pays his tithe, was that not what he was to pay first before using the 90%?

'Honor the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops; then your barns will be filled to overflowing, and your vats will brim over' - Prov 3:9


You are entitled to your opinions really.
As per boldening the latter part is that not true?
Those people know themselves already.
Like I said Enigma, lets leave the questions I asked to the poster ok.
I am yet to hear from him.

@ Enigma
I basically asked questions on this thread, didn't I? As I was trying to understand your logic.
I quoted scriptures so where did I say anything of my logic.
Don't jump into conclusions, be patient, go through my posts.
There is a mindset here which I am trying to understand how it was arrived at. Simple.

You quoted "Tithing" is NOT required of Christians let alone by God" - Just give me scriptures to educate me.

Oh and please show me the false doctrine I spread in this thread 'in quote pls'?
Afterall I am willing to take correction.

@Ogajim,
Easy boy!
If you found Malachi 3 fraudulent to you then thats your conclusion not mine ok.
If the law was still in effect before Jesus death then are you rendering all Jesus works/words on earth invalid?! So what scriptures do you follow? Only Acts to Revelation? At least I get why you have a problem with tithes. Thanks for the clarification.

@Enigma,
I am not sure I posted anything will happen to me if I do not pay tithes. Please quote me.
What will happen to you if you do not pray for the next 3 months or you do not help the needy? So please I don't understand the relevance of your question.

Anyways,
My first post was directed to kenny888 who seems to have gone AWOL.
Typically, he must have left us to engage in these debates while refraining from saying too much himself.

Proverbs 17:27 He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.
2 Tim 2:23 23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
May God direct us in every step of the way in life.
Cheers all.

@ogajim,
Do state where it was i twisted scriptures.
Jesus died and paid our debts. So are you now saying tithes are debts?
Are you also saying what Jesus said before He was crucified should not be followed? Sorry I do not understand you.
Can you please enlighten me on other things Jesus preached before his death that Christians are not following today?
Matt. 23:23 said practice tithe and also the more important matters of justice, mercy and faithfulness (Is Matt 25:31-45 not also captured in this - having mercy). So how does having mercy disturb paying tithes.
I didn't say tithing is a way to bribe God, where did you get that from? Have you read my posts?
Let's study our bibles and understand it based on God's inspiration and not what seems convenient for us or according to our human logic.

1 Corinthians 3:19 - "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS"

Peace.

@KunleOshob
So are you saying that tithing is not required of christians by God or you have issues with the twisted version its being preached today to deceive believers?
If tithing is scriptural then practice it.
There are lots of things that have been twisted and abused in the world today, however, you have the duty to practice it the way the scripture preaches it. So are you practising tithing the way Deuteronomy 14:22-29 says you should then?
Going by that scripture, Have you set aside a tenth of your produce (what do you produce pls?) and eaten it in his presence (that is a place- since He is talking about distance -'if the place is too distant'). And who are the Levites mentioned that you should not neglect?

@  ajokeakin
Its the All -Knowing God that will be the judge right? Right!

@KunleOshob
You have proven beyond your resoning please.
If you assume that God who vehemently commanded this in Malachi 3 and Jesus who said tithing should not be left undone in Matthew 23:23 is now a man-made commandment then thats your resoning.
Also please confirm to me that Jesus was talking about tithe in Matt 15:5. You still have 90% left to help your parents don't you?
Let us seek God purpose for our lives and also his direction and wisdom in all we do in life.
We should seek to be perfect in our words, actions and thoughts.
There are other weightier aspects we need to dwell on.
Cheers!

@Poster, I have a question for you. How come your friend's tithe, which is what he should part with first from his earnings to honour God, is what he now wants to use to assist a friend? So you mean he spent the 90% on his budget and just has his tithe left for you to advise him on what to use it for - whether to give it to God or take your advice? He actually planned to give the 10% as tithe and because his friend asked for assistance, he would rather use the 10% for his friend rather than touch the 90% he budgeted for himself?  How does that sound to you?
Or this is just another avenue to ridicle the body of Christ alongside some others?
If he had to pay may be his school fees or some very pressing need of his, you will not ofcourse table it here saying
'Assisting a friend or pay school fees'. I guess you will know the answer to that.
This tithe thing has generated a lot of issues here especially for people who do not understand what it's all about or have just made up their minds to persecute the body of Christ because of this.
Just tell him to let God lead him. If you seek for answers in His word you will get it.
As per all those spending all their time and energy ridiculing pastors, whether fake or real, I must say you are really jobless.
Most of them never even spend time on means to win souls but anything on tithe/offering, they are on it like hawks.
Just consider that we will give account of every idle word. We should edify the body of Christ not tear it to shreds.
Remember, whether perfect or imperfect, it's Christ's bride.

Kunle_A,
THANK YOU!
U are a great man.

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Wow, thanks a bunch Kunle-A.

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@poster
Just study the book of Revelation in the new testament and May God give you the insight.

Also view the below:

Luke 16:
22 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.

23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,

28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'


1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


John 5:28-29

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.




Remain in Christ.

@dancewith
Thanks for the clarification . We are talking about getting your british passport in Nigeria not USA.
At least we now know that in other countries, the required documentation is not as bulky as that asked in Nigeria.
However do note in the link I sent that some of the documents are essential and some desired so I guess its just a thing they will have to use their discretion for at the end of the day. There was a guy I met at the BHC who had his documents up to his parents plane tickets with him but they kept delaying him. I think he had entered one f the EU contries illegally before so they were giving him a hard time. He was talking about lawyers then.
Your information is most appreciated though.

@dancewith
Hi,
Actually the list of everything required is handed to you at the Deputy High Commision Lagos office and that is even before verifying the birth certificate.
toks87 said she has been in Nigeria since she was 4 years old so thats the reason why i gave her the info based on the Naija context.
As per your friend getting his with only birth certificate, that was what I was told too many years ago but thats not the case now.
Maybe you can clarify when and where he got his before you assume.
I guess you should take it easy on the 'doubt' here. I am talking from experience but you are talking from hearsay.
Thanks.

@toks87
Kindly view their website - http://ukinnigeria.fco.gov.uk/content/en/article/passport-fta-adult-uk
It basically gives you the requirements needed.

@toks87
Hi,
Just saw this post.
If you were born before January 1, 1983 in the UK, you are automatically a british citizen.
However, if you were born after (in the UK) and one of your parents is a british citizen then same applies.
You can go to the British High Commission in Lagos for enquiries but the load of paper-work you will need will be quite a lot.
I applied in 2006 (i was born before the 1983 deadline) and got my passport over a year after. Still shocked it came that easy though as I still didn't have everything complete. It was favour!
You will be required to present your original birth certificates, all your school documents, all pictures as long as you remember, your parents marriage certificates, passports they used to travel then, you and your mums medical records in the hospital of birth (i had to get that by post from UK), your dad's work documents in the UK or certificate if he was a student, their ID cards and a host more. I just pray your parents keep records.
I was on my own too but i had to do lots of pestering of my only surviving parent as after a while I was told not to bother due to the documentation.
Hope this was helpful.

Hello ABC4LYF,
This would greatly assist you in understanding Christ's love:

http://www.higherpraisetube.com/video/919/Christian-Videos-Lifehouse-Everything-Skit