₦airaland Forum

KunleOshob,
Since no church that we know of is preaching the word according to 'your beliefs', kindly send us your own list.
At least since they are all 'fraudulent' you must have one that is at least good in 'your own eyes'.

Contd,  Then they taught that we are Gods pleasure and while we serve him in truth and holiness, our ways will prosper and the Lord will add other good things to us. However there are still critics as usual who never see the good of a thing. Living in holiness and prosperity occur side by side. Hence preachers who preach the entire word of God with respect to holiness, living in abundance and in the divine have done no wrong.

It's funny how some one will come up saying some churches preach the 'real word of God' while some don't.
Can God's word be fake?
Both 'types' of churches preach the word of God in the bible, so what is the problem.
You can never satisfy human beings as they must always find something to say.
In the early days when there were fewer churches, so many people were unwilling to identify with them as they had a word for depicting the church, 'as poor as a church rat'.
Preachers were very rigid on holiness and no one wanted to be involved with them. They said 'was that all there was to life?' That, churches were not practical. Youths fled churches like deeper life as they did not seem to know how to have fun while serving God. Everyone though that serving God led to living in penury.
I wouldn't be surprised if the OP would have criticised them then, even despised them.
Enter the influx of more churches with Pastors who knew that serving God did not mean that we should not live 'life'.

Pastor AIO:
While it was prompted by your post, I wasn't addressing just you but a general trend that I've noticed here on NL. You've stated quite explicitly . . .

. . . that your criteria for listening to what he has to say depends on the manner in which he lives his personal life. You can never know his personal life unless he invites you to his house which I doubt will ever happen, so you're basically saying that you won't listen to him - full stop. In fact you cannot listen to what most of the people here on this forum have to say, cos you do not know their personal lives. Which begs the question - What exactly is it that you are doing here since you are unwilling to listen to the co-forumites?

Pasor AIO,
In your haste to defend you must have glossed over the fact that I said I would 'listen' IF he was helping the poor (at least his posts before now would have shown one or two) and I will 'take his words with less than a pinch of salt' IF HE WAS not. Don't you get it?
Is it all the words of the forumites that you respond to or accept? Stop majoring on the minor here and nitpicking,
Let Nuclearboy speak for himself.

Anyway, from the abundance of the heart the 'mouth speaks' and posts will give a semblance of the personal life of the poster.

@Pastor AIO ,
Note the 'if'. I never said I knew, so look at my words well before makeing conclusions.

@nuclearboy ,
I throw back your criticism to you once again, if you are enjoying the comforts of life and the poor are suffering and you come forward to criticise the church because of this, then you are hypocrite. Simple!
Let your conscience (if you have one) respond to you.

Lol @ all,
See, there are lots of things going on in the Christianity which can be constructively criticised/adviced.

Anyone here claiming that the churches should not be beautified, air-conditioned etc because the poor are suffering would be the biggest hypocrite if he drives air-ocnditioned cars, lives in well-furnished or well-built houses with airconditioning and other comforts since he is also a member of the 'church'. Infact the time you spend online would have been spent caring for the poor.
No one ever said the poor will not be helped but the way you guys are going about it is so hypocritical.

@nuclearboy,
If you have decided to live in penury or lack all the comforts of life, and you criticise the church based on this then I will listen to you but anything other than that, I will take your words with less than a pinch of salt.

KunleOshob and other members of the church criticisers board,
I pray the Lord opens your eyes, really.

Scriptures were quoted and the best you guys can do is to ask how Joe came about that interpretation? Give yours now.

Kunle especially,
i have noticed that you can't hold your own for long. As soon as you are boxed into a corner, you start mumbling repititively like you think that your opinion overides that of others.
It's when your buddies come to assist you that you start latching unto their words to boost your claims.
You just did it again in this thread.

See your destructive criticisms of Christ's church will one day swallow you up.
Since there is no church good enough, why don't you tell us which church to attend now?

Go see your fellow 'brother' Chukwudi deny the bible on the thread of beautification of the pope.
See how your follies are finding you out one by one?
Most of your fellow church critics hate the bible, are atheist and all and they are the ones that are your 'friends'.
May God have mercy.


@ Post,
We have a duty to preach the word correct. However, if you are have a secular job or business, have built a house and bought cars, are you now in error because we are to preach the gospel? Cos afterall you are the church too, abi? Have you helped the poor with all your wordly goods like the time of Paul?
I can 'see' four fingers pointing back at you.

Everything in this world has a motive. God will judge that motive whether good or evil. Hebrews 4:12
So your conclusion that church building is wrong does not hold water.
That is why we should be careful what we say. Be quick to hear and slow to speak bro.
There are a lot of things that will be brought to light on the last day.
God will judge the intents of the heart, so be careful you do not weed out the crops with the weeds. Matthew 13:27-30

Peace!

chukwudi44:
@fredooo


First and foremost [b]I don't beleive in sola bible since it ha no biblical backing.Besides the compilation of the bible itself has no biblical basis .So what iam saying in essence is a thing does not necessary have to be iN the bible for it to be genuine.

The bible did not exist until it was created by the catholic hurch at the synod of hippo in 393 CE [/b]

Chukwudi,
To think you vehemently quote scriptures against some other issues like your life depends on it, so it was all for show?
You don't even believe in the bible? And yet you keep going on and on, whenever someone posts something that 'where is it in the bible?' Why are you acting like a hypocrite.
All because you have been boxed into a corner by beatification questions, which you cannot answer and which you are yet to show us a scriptural backing for, you deny the bible!?
I am not surprised anyway. Even the one that we show you in scriptures sef, you deny.

For your info, the 'bible' is a compilation of scriptures given by the inspiration of God. So I really do not understand what you are now saying.

Chei! and to think you are one of Kunleoshob's main 'men', 

@KunleOshob ,
Our discussion is ended. Since you cannot answer my questions, I wonder why you are commenting on my posts.
When we finish our discussion, then we can move on. Till then, please leave the floor open for Zikky.

Zikkyy:
The 'giving' is not the issue. The 'asking' is actually the problem.

So why condemn the 'giving' because of the 'asking'.

Zikkyy:
It's not 'new', that was the approach adopted by the church back in the days.

This was for a specific project. It does not equate to tithe.

'Contribution' was what was adopted by the church back then? You mean 'paying bills' as garyanold said.
And the contribution was not the same as giving to God?

The early church gave at the order of Paul. Paul 'asked' too. Everyone had the option to give or not.
If because you are 'asked' to give you refuse to 'give' then allow those that give whether they are asked or not to. Is that a crime?

@Zikky,
Please post scriptures for our enlightement of both of what you posted?

@free123,
Please understand the context in which I was posting.

garyarnold was asking if pastor/ministers had the authority to receive what 'Levites' of times of old received (which include tithes, freewill offerings etc), hence my response. It said they should live of what is given at the altar, WHAT IS GIVEN, whether tithe or offerings.
Your interpretation is your opnion.

Whatever you give to God should be with clean hearts and freewill in the first place and not due to compulsion so I still do not understand why giving a tithe of my income is an issue to you if i give with all my heart and gratitude to God for his supply in my life.

Also, I wonder why giving is even generating such an issue, however, it is preached. Is that all there is to living in Christ?
Please whatever anyone decides to do, let him do it with the Holy Spirit's conviction. Shikena!

KunleOshob:
@snowwy
No true church of christ preaches tithes the way it is twisted in our churches today. Christ asked his church to collect tithes so tithe collectorrs can't possibly be representing christ. That aside you are yet to provide one single shred of sound unmanipulated evidence that christians are meant to practise the biblical tithe talkless of the manipulative, abusive and fraudulent version being promoted today. The onus is on you to prove that christians ought to tithe as scripture doesn't support this. Rather christians tithe becos they are being manipulated and the false teaching is being shoved down their throats, I am merely challenging a false teaching.

There is nothing left to justify based on the bolded part of your post

KunleOshob:
@snowwy
Your questions are irrelevant becos it has already been established as a FACT beyond any iota of doubt that the type of tithing being preached and practised today is NOT biblical and that is a fraudulent manipulation of scripture to feed the greed it's promoters. You first need to justify why I as a christian should tolerate a fraud[mordern day tithe] being perpetuated in the name of God for me to respond to your rhetorics.

@KunleOshob
Yeah! Established fact by you with no evidence!  You are the what that has no doubt that tithing is a 'fraud' so why try to push your views down our throats? Enough scriptures have been highlighted on this, so there is nothing to justify therefore.

To think i thought you had substance. You are just making embarassingly obvious lame attempts here you know.
You say my questions backed with scripture are irrelevant, yet your own question is relevant?

Kunle, argue with respect and fairly now. You are the one that always says twisted, fraudulent, charlatans and a host of other unbefitting names against the church and giving to the church.
This your battle on tithes is gradually turning you into something else. Kai! Are you this bitter? The bible says he that believes in Christ, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. All I see relating to you is criticism, name-calling and bitterness against anything relating to Christ's church.

If you are short of words to say, you do not need to respond, but saying that the FACTS I have presented are not relevant is laughable
Cheers!

@ KunleOshob, the artful dodger,
All the question I asked before you asked yours, did you answer them?
Typical of you as always. When you see you have lost, you try another ploy.
The gates of hell will not prevail agaisnt the church ok.
Stop straining at a gnat.

@Claus,
You have a point! However, not everyone can be like Paul.
There are true men of God who do not burden their members. Infact a great number now work alongside the work of the ministry and do not partake in the offerings and tithes.
God always creates things good but the devil will always find a way to abuse it.
It is the generalisation by the anti-tithe crew that I am against.
Anyone that goes into the ministry all because financial gain will be judged by God.

May we all come into the unity of the faith and unto a perfect man,

Eph 4:13:
King James Bible
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

@KunleOshob,

All I can say is CHECKMATE!
You have been floored, hence you cannot seem to answer my questions.
I can therefore see that there is no more need to answer you.


@garyarnold,
1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live[ of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Paul derived this from the old testament law (which you guys said has been done away with). AT least, I do not find where Jesus said this during his life on earth.
I, therefore, find it strange that you keep arguing over this over and over again. You have contradicted yourself a lot of times on this forum. You said:

'When I contribute to the church, I know that I am doing my part to help pay the bills. I am not giving it to God.'

then you say:

'Again, I am not against someone giving a tenth of their income to the church. I am all for it.'

Are you now saying that 'contribution' is a new way to give to the church? If you see 'contribution' as not giving to God, then I do not understand you. Is your statement 'Again, I am not against someone giving a tenth of their income to the church' giving to God and not 'contributing'?

Paul had right to ask the people to feed him but he did not but at least he had a right too as a minister of the gospel. He also said they should set aside offerings on the first day of the week as the Lord has prospered us, please is there anywhere God said this as explicitly as Paul did elsewhere in the bible?
What do you have to say about that? No one is saying anything yet you all claim to be following Paul.

It wasn't that we didn't have the right to
ask you to feed us, but we wanted to show you,
firsthand, how you should work for your living"
(2.Thes.3:7-9).

[b]1 Corinthians 16:2 (New International Version)[/b]2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

[b]On your issue with fake pastors:
The sons of Eli were taking the best of the offerings of the people in the old testament but did God tell the people to stop giving? NO!
He dealt with the sons of Eli instead.
Stop fighting God's battle for Him so you do not get in the way.[/b]I think this topic is so overflogged anyways.
There is a lot involved in our quest for perfection, please let us focus on weighthier matters.
Peace!

garyarnold:
I don't feel "justified" by my giving. It is strictly a heart issue. I give because I want to give.

I have both family and friends who cannot afford to give a tenth of their income, and some of them have been made to feel less than worthy by their pastors. One of my godsons who is married and have 4 children cannot give a full tenth of his income and still support his family. His pastor told him since he doesn't tithe, his family cannot be a member of that church. But they can continue to come as visitors.

Others have felt guilty when they couldn't give a tenth. They have been made to feel as though they are robbing God. That is just plain wrong.

The Biblical tithe had NOTHING to do with giving. It had NOTHING to do with the heart. Those who are able should be generous givers. Those who are not able should not be condemned.

Again, I am not against someone giving a tenth of their income to the church. I am all for it. But I don't confuse that with the Biblical tithe.

Now we reach a landing. Anything can and will be abused you know? That is even the reason why Paul did not want to 'live' by the altar as the people could misconstrue it.
You come across as seeing even offerings as a sin meanwhile Paul said in

1 Corinthians 9:13:
Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?
Do you know he was speaking based on the law? because he refused to partake in this does not make it wrong.

"For you well know that you ought to follow our
example: you never saw us loafing; we never
accepted food from anyone without buying it; we
worked hard day and night for the money we needed
to live on, in order that we would not be a burden to
any of you. It wasn't that we didn't have the right to
ask you to feed us, but we wanted to show you,
firsthand, how you should work for your living"
(2.Thes.3:7-9 ).


1 Corinthians 16:2 (New International Version)
2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

Some other translations say in proportion with your income. Another version says as the Lord has prospered you, no one seems to see this. He could as well have said as you wish to give.

Paul intended that they should be systematic in their giving, and that they should give from principle, and not merely under the impulse of feeling.


That is why we need to discern and be slow to speak. It's well. Remain blessed

garyarnold:
When I contribute to the church, I know that I am doing my part to help pay the bills. I am not giving it to God.
I find it quite offensive that pastors have appointed themselves to be the receiver of what belongs to God. After all, the pastor says the tithe belongs to God. Then he self-appoints himself to receive the tithe!!!

God never gave any pastor or church permission to receive his tithe or his gifts. God commanded His tithe be taken to the Levites, FOREVER, in Numbers 18.

Since the tithe belongs to God, if your pastor accepts it isn't he stealing it from God?

I don't keep all my money. I give far more than a mere tenth of my income.

@garyarnold,
Bravo then. Since you give more than a 'mere' tenth, I believe you feel justified. So let those that can pay the 'mere' tenth pay, ok.
And in church we give offerings to God but it seems you just contribute so at least I see where you are coming from now, and this is aside 'contributing to the bills' which is also giving to God's work. Seems your heart is not even right with offerings.
No one needs to come here and start saying what or what not they give in the church. The heart is what matters.
Weldone and may God bless us.

@KunleOshob,
You have tactfully dodged response to my last post. Stop jumping around like a grasshopper.
Maybe when you answer my questions and quit dodging the facts I have presented, I will be obliged to answer you.
But as is typical of your nature, since you have no answers to my questions, you deviate to another area.
I know you. 
Answer me first then lets see where it leads from there. Kapish?!


@garyarnold, The Money and Finance Minister,
I bet you do not give offerings too in church as the offerings are also meant to be for God. If then you give offerings, does that mean you are sinning, since it is not to the Levites too?
In instances in the new testament, Jesus told the rich to sell their goods and give to the poor. The early Christians sold their property and brought it to the feet of the Apostles. A wrong heart led to the death of Ananias and Saphira and you come here and are foaming because of tithe.
Have you done a quarter of what the early Christians did?
Look, all this your literature on tithing will get you nowhere.
Keep all your money to yourself since that makes you happy as its people like you that will grumble/murmur when it comes to parting with anything that belongs to you. We give and do it cheerfully ok. I wonder why you feel so pained.
Give rest to your soul brother.

@KunleOshob ,
I have read the whole passage in context and still cannot see where it was abolished. I only see the mention of tithe there as an analogy to explain the priesthood of Melchizedek and Christ as agaisnt that of the Levites. I think you are the one taking this out of context.

As per the law you said, there are a lot of laws that was given to the people then which are still in effect today so please I need you to know that Christ took the curse of the law on Himself, but you keep coming up like we should not follow God's laws at all.

The difference between the law then and now is that the people obeyed out of fear/duty but we obey the law of God out of love. 1 John 2:4, 1 John 3:4, Romans 8:2-4, Romans 7:7

Romans 7:22-25 (New International Version)

22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[a] a slave to the law of sin.

We are not condemned by the law because we are under grace as the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4


Also, if you say that Jesus was talking to the Pharisees then, are you invalidating the meaning of His words? Do you think Jesus said this just for the fun of it?
The Pharisees were hypocrites who were more concerned with ceremonial show of good works, so anyone that is a hypocrite today is just like a pharisee.Are you saying that the weightier matters of justice, mercy and faithfulness do not apply to us too?
Why did He add that tithe should not be neglected?

When Jesus was saying unless a man is born again to the Pharisee in John 3:1-3, are you saying He also was not referring to us?
I think you should stop confusing yourself, all in your bid to discredit tithe.

The people laid their 100% at the feet of the Apostles and even Ananias and Saphira died due to their error of lying against the Holy Spirit. That seemed like a hard punishment for someone who was giving isn't it? They were not under the law where they?

Since you are following only the apostles, have you given 100% of all your earthly goods to the poor (since you are their advocate).
Why bicker all because someone tithes?
Do you know that even though I tithe, it does not invalidate my having to help the poor and orphans (who will always be with us), give offerings, care for family and all with a joyful heart and in faith by God's grace?
If you are truly a giver, you will not have issues with someone paying tithe. That is the simple truth.

Anyway, I can see how you are straining at a gnat.
If you have issues with the way tithe is preached, then you can start another thread but saying tithe is unbiblical is so wrong.

KunleOshob:
@snowwy
My position on tithes is based on sound untwisted biblical facts, try justing your position on tithes without twisting scriptures and adjusting it to suit the greedy desires of the promoters of these mordern day version of tithing which is different from the biblical one that was not even directed to christians. I reteriate that the mordern day tithes being preached today is a monumental fraud and is NOT the will of God for christians as it was arrived at by twisting and adding to God's word.

@KunleOshob ,
All I can say is that neither you nor any of your anti-tithe crew has given me a scripture that proves that tithe is unbiblical, abolished or done away with.

Your favourite Hebrews 7 argument talks about the law changed regarding who is authorised to be a priest and nothing more.

Therefore, I will say your claims are baseless.

If in the new testament, Jesus said it in Matthew 23:23 and Paul confirmed that tithe was received by a priest made not according to a carnal law (Hebres 7:7-8, 16, 28), I think you should therefore understand that there is nothing wrong with paying tithe.
I think I am done here.

For all those calling Christian's fools, I think you should mind Christ's words in Matt. 5:22.
Also note that that wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. That is the reason why so many of you just do not understand.
Your rationalising divine things will never enlighten you as Proverbs 11:24-25 says:

'24 One person gives freely, yet gains even more;
   another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty.

25 A generous person will prosper;
   whoever refreshes others will be refreshed.'

'24 There is one who scatters, yet increases more;
      And there is one who withholds more than is right,
      But it leads to poverty. '

If you think giving your tithes and offerings is giving to your Pastor to make him wealthy then it shows how warped your thinking is.
Keep talking, it will get you nowhere as your approaches are just so wrong.

@Kunle Oshob (the self-acclaimed tithe-fighter),
focus and fulfill your purpose in life. This your 'ministry' is not edifying in any way and I know that deep in your heart you know it. Than spewing all this on Nairaland, try and meet this MOGs one-on-one and tell them the way you feel. As i tell you, you are talking based on feelings and nothing more.
You have come to 'idolise' these men to the extent that you must mention them in a large number of your post.
Try and get a life as this bitterness will do you only harm.
Peace.

Guys,
Is all this necessary? Why dabble into unnecessary 'genealogies' all because of tithe or not tithing or calculating tithing.
All I will say is that everything is to be done in faith. Give, tithe in faith; eat in faith; love your neighbour with faith as the bible says that if you give your body to be burned without love, it is a waste. So the motive is important as God searches the heart.
Tithing is not legalistic, or compulsory. It has to be done in faith.
Hence, I think we should settle this as it looks that this will lead us nowhere.
Peace!

@Nsiman,
Animal sacrifice was abolished as it was usually used for atonement of sin, Christ has saved us by dying on the cross. Heb 10:5-12.
Worshipping God only in Jerusalem was done away with. John 4:20-24
I am yet to see where Christ said tithe is also abolished by His death.

It is great you give cheerful. His word and the Holy Spirit is there to direct you on right or wrong.
And know that we live by faith as it is impossible to please God without faith. Tithing is by faith too as under the liberty of Christ.

There are other 'weightier matters' as Christ said so do all these and do not neglect tithe. It was Christ word's in Matthew 23:23.
Anyone who says it is to the pharisees should also tell me that he is not obliged to practice the other weightier matters of the law or be born again as Christ was speaking to a Pharisee when he said that too. John 3: 1 -6. (note: Jesus said this even before the crucifixion)

Zikky,
Christ revealed the full meanings behind the laws of God by preaching the gospel in order to bring the knowledge of salvation through the obedience of the commandments, not only by the letter, but in the spirit of the law. Christ fulfilled the law by bringing it to its full meaning and intent. He magnified the laws and commandments of God, and made clear the spiritual aspects of the law.

He 10:5-12 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;"

1 John 2:3-5 (New King James Version)
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

Nsiman:
@ snowwy, we have two testaments in the bible, the old consist of the laws and the prophets, the new consist of the life time of christ on earth and the messages leading to salvation. Tho during his ministry on earth he observed the jewish tradition of worship by paying tax, tithe and participating in observing the passover feast but when He was on the cross he made a last statement "it is finished". Mr. Snowwy, pls what was finished?

@Nsiman, it means the work and the will of the Father, He came to do on earth, is complete. John 4:34; John 12:24-27
And this work includes the work of redemption, reconciling man back to God, saving us from Satan's hold, the curse of the law, making us sons of the Father etc.

Do you have a different meaning of 'It is finished'? See tithe is done by faith (grace) and you are not under any obligation to, so if you do not want to stop trying to discredit it.

So are you now saying that paying tax is a form of worship or his paying tax is in line with the jewish tradition?
So now his death nullified paying tax too? Do you pay tax? If you do are you sayin you are under the law not grace?

@Nsiman,
The weekly offerings continues as well as tithing and helping the poor as tehy will always be around us.
We are the church so I think we should stop acting like the church is different from us.
Whatever you decide to give to God is between you and Him, so no hassles.
Too bad since you have decided to 'condemn' tithe.
It is God's word so I think you should be careful of what you condemn. If you do not practise it, do not condemn it.

@Nsiman
Tithe is just one of the ways of giving. We give offerings, we give to the poor and help our neighbours.
We give sacrifice of praise and worship too so really there are a lot of ways to give to God.

@Zikkyy,
Hmmmmn, the letter killeth indeed. That is your opinion, it is Godly wisdom that can expound His word.

For all who keep saying that we are no longer under the law, hence all the commandments are done away with, this excerp from a message blessed me and it may aid your understanding better too if you allow God:

The law of God is important to Christians. Not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, has disappeared. Every jot and tittle must be fulfilled. The law is as relevant today as it was on the day God engraved it into the tablets of stone. Therefore, says Jesus,

(Mt 5:17-19) "DO NOT THINK THAT I CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore BREAKS ONE OF the least of THESE commandments, and teaches men so, shall be CALLED LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

By grace we are forgiven when we break the law. But grace brings more than the forgiveness and redemption we looked at this morning. It also brings obedience and holiness. One of the purposes of grace is to enable us to obey the law.

Let me put it this way: if you do not keep the law you have not received grace. You may have had an emotional or psychological or even a religious experience that you call grace; but it is not grace that you have received if it does not make you keep the law.

What is grace? It is that marvellous free gift of God which delivers a man from the curse of the law and enables him to keep the law. Grace is that which brings me to love God and keep His commandments. "If you love me," says Christ, "you will obey what I command" (John 14:15).

We must never separate these two things. Grace and holiness belong together. Forgiveness and obedience go hand-in-hand.

A sign on the freeway reads, SPEED LIMIT 70. You glance at your speedometer. It registers 75. A car passes you going at least 80. A huge semi follows, sucking you toward the center line. But what about the law, that 70 miles-per-hour sign?

Laws are lifeless words on statute books. They restrain only if power backs them up. Who of us hasn't let up on the gas pedal when a police car appeared in the rearview mirror? That's police power. But can you think of a time when a law or a policeman instilled within you a love for driving 70?
The same is true with God's commands. Fear of punishment or getting caught may check our actions. But it takes a stronger force than that to make us want to obey. That power comes from a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. That power comes from grace,

Anyone understand Hebrews 7:8?

@garyarnold,
The law stated, as being done away with, was the law of perfection through the Levitical priesthood not the 'law' of tithe.
And the law of honour your father and mother still exist, so are you saying that is also done away with?

We are still to keep God's commands even though we are under grace. Romans 5:20.
However, all is to be done with faith.

If Jesus said that tithe should not be neglected but we should focus on weighthier matters of the law which are justice, mercy and faith, are you now saying that after Christ's death, we should not tithe, have mercy or faith?
Are you saying that all Christ said before his death was under the 'law'? So how do you live to be like Christ?
Do not tell me he was speaking to the scribes/pharisees because when he was saying unless a man is born again he will not see the Kingdom of God, he was speaking to a Pharisee too.
We live under God's grace hence we should do all things through faith as the just lives by faith. SIMPLE!


You see where you people keep shifting the goal posts? If you do not believe in it, then leave it but stop saying things you do not understand.

Sorry Kunle,
You deftly tried to dodge my question and your response is vague.  I think you should really thread carefully when interpreting scriptures as I can see how good you misinterprete passages. Verse 12 bears no relevance to what you just posted.

KunleOshob:
The scripture makes it clear that tithing is not relevant to the priesthood of christ as he is not from the tribe of the levitical priest who are the only ones permitted to collect God's tithe. Going by verse 12 of that passage, it implied even Jesus was not qualified to collect tithes how much less the charlatans claiming to represent him today.

6 This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.
So what are you saying here since Melchizedek still took tithes from Abraham and Jesus is a Priest Forever in the order of Mechizedek?

However, if that is your interpretation, all well and good. 


Someone with better understanding should please explain verse 8:
8 In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living.