₦airaland Forum

agaugust:
South Africa copied Finland to build Badger IFV, show proof that Denel piad for the hull design.

You are copy cats too

I don't understand why you purposefully turn this thread into a joke. Are you here for a serious debate or not? What you do is pathetic.
Denel is building the Badger using the Patria Finnish IFV chassis under license, with South African weapons and communication systems used. Even a 7 year old can find that information on the internet. You know that for a fact, but you just bring this topic down with such useless comments. Compare this thread to a year or so ago. Look at how slow it is now, because of non.sense like this. Just grow up.

agaugust:
Firstly your source is a mere blog of private opinion, secondly it says Denel suspects China but has no proof. How does suspicion become fact?

A-Darter missile is not yet in service anywhere, not yet exported, not yet sold anywhere, so how did China get a copy of it to reverse engineer, they traveled 10,000 km to South Africa and rob Denel factory at gun point ?

You cannot even think, full time fool

The Chinese also travelled 10 000km to steal various American military data at gun point? Interesting. Google what the Chinese have stolen from America.

...

Join in and become a South African Paratrooper for a day.
Really nice interactive video of SA elite troopers.

http://www.enca.com/features/the-jump/#_TheJump

https://images.enca.com/encadrupal/styles/600_383/s3/DSC_0394s.jpg

agaugust:
I am not going to repeat the whole episode of Nigerian navy lynx ASW heliopcters here again, I have posted it over ten times in one year. Andrewza, Patches, Saengine have all agreed thsy are military grade ASW helicopters, only you wants to be a lone ranger fool. Check it on SIPRI or google Lynx Mk.89 Nigerian navy. I don't get paid for time spent on nairaland.

White boy with Zulu brain.

Dont include me in your rubb.ish. I have never typed one little letter about Nigerian Lynx on this forum. Stop lying.

...

Maybe the current Seeker 400's in production are for the police or a private company, and not the SANDF . But basic logic would make one wonder why there has never ever been any other links between Seeker 400 and anyone else besides the SANDF....*thinking out loud*

And to make things worse the Denel statement says that the drones are "in production for OUR local customer". I wonder who Denel deals with on such a regular basis for them to be comfortable enough to say "our" in a report. I wonder :-)

So a South African defence publisher/writer states that these initial Seeker 400's wont be going to the SAAF first (from what he's heard), but to another branch of the SANDF. But SAAF aquisition of Seeker 400's still going ahead. Going to the Army first i guess? Will have to wait a bit and see.

agaugust:
You wanted to scam us to believe that the Marlin is going to be ready soon and give your SAAF BVR missile.

See, dude, DENEL cannot even afford the cost of developing the missile, they are begging for foreign cash partners to co-sponsor the project.

Your current test is merely like Nigeria test firing rockets at Epe site into the sea, we do that here too.

SAAF will have no BVR missile until maybe 2020.

The only person being scammed is you, by yourself. You are scamming yourself into believing you are as smart as you
think you are. Even before I posted the Defenceweb link I openly said unguided tests will start late this year or
early next year. A few days later I posted the link and article for everyone here to freely open, view and read for themselves.

All people with functioning fingers and eyes were free to open the link and read the whole article. Now I wanted to scam you?
This conversation is over. I have no time for small boys.

agaugust:
.
You are just testing a dumb rocket with zero guidance, and BTWN, your Marlin missle...I mean rocket looks ugly, even the one Nigeria is building in a workshop looks better !

You like insulting other people's prototypes, and I have told you that the day we see photo of your own prototypes, they will be more ugly....and also, that DENEL workshop looks like my secondary school laboratory in Lagos !
.

Yeah. Marlin is an "ugly" missile...um okay.

NO that is not the Denel Dynamics workshop. It's not even close to "the workshop". That is the Lapa area where braai's and events are held. Been there plenty times. Close to the main dining hall at the Irene campus. Not anywhere close to "the workshop"

www.nairaland.com/attachments/2746641_0000445253resizeddeneldynamicsmarlinbeyondvisualrangemissilekeith1022_jpeg_jpeg1a0be00dbfc69a32605fa2ea11d5e10f

agaugust:
[size=13pt]Bwahahaahaha Nonsense !

Did you read your own source at all?

It says you are testing unguided rocket, basic straight line shot rocket firing, not a missile. Marlin rocket booster only

Your source story says the guided Marlin missile itself will NOT be tested until November 2016.

Then we can expect it to enter service in 2020 because the story says South Africa is still looking for foreign countries to become joint development partners.

You have no BVR missile and you will NOT have one soon....still many years away !

SAAF is stuck with 19 km range A-Darter missile, NAF F-7 jet has 22 km range, we are about the same level
.[/size]

Again I told you....do not waste my f*cken time. No one is forcing you to reply.

What do you mean "did I read my source at all?" Where did I say that Denel is testing a guided missile?
Where did I say it is a finished product? I am merely posting articles for those who want to read them.
If you feel you need to fight and argue over everything posted, then that it your f*cken problem, not mine.

In fact before that article was posted on Defenceweb, I had posted my own snippet a few days before.
I clearly say it is an unguided test. Now you come here rushing in, asking if I read my own source.
F*cken idi.ot. This is what a posted below.

"Marlin unguided flight tests to start late this year or earlier next year. Project funded by Denel and the South African Air Force. To give the SAAF a BVR capability of 100km. The relative quick speed of this project is due to certain sub-components coming off other missile projects such as Umkhonto and A-Darter.

Again cements South Africa's stance of prefering to develop projects which they deemed strategic in-house (or with a single trusted partner), rather than having to rely on foreign sources."

...

...

"WE FEAR NAUGHT BUT GOD" - South African Special Forces


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQm50m7F8aY

Pre-Deployment Training - SANDF


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFHgmNxWIBI

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40322:denel-dynamics-to-test-marlin-bvr-missile-technology-in-september&catid=7:Industry&Itemid=116

Just for a slightly longer version....

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/images/stories/INDUSTRY/Denel_Dynamics_Marlin_400x300_Guy_Martin.jpg

[b]"Denel Dynamics will conduct missile flight tests of its new Marlin missile system in September and November this year ahead of a first guided test flight in November 2016, where it will be demonstrated against a moving target.
...

The 80-100 kilometre range Marlin radar-guided air-to-air missile is being developed by Denel Dynamics under an Armscor/Department of Defence technology demonstrator contract. Denel Dynamics will be using a dual pulse rocket motor on the Marlin (this uses two fuel chambers and one exhaust nozzle) for extended range.
...

Marlin can also be configured into an all-weather surface-to-air missile. Common subsystems will be used for the different variants of the weapon, with some components derived from the A-Darter and Denel’s Umkhonto surface-to-air missile.
...

Although Marlin is fully funded by the Department of Defence via Armscor, Denel Dynamics is looking for an international partner to collaborate with during the future development programme. The company said it is currently talking to a few interested parties."[/b]

After burner...looks too nice

iblawi:
now let me tell u, I always go to North eastern Nigeria Bauchi precisely. I am not telling you what we read in papers or Web site. Boko haram have always being on bikes they use them a lot am not saying dey don't use tank. They use them them mainly when they want to attack the army by surprise. It took the army that long cos they had internal issues and the equipment they were using then where old and malfunction on battle field.

I hope u still remember how long it took SA police and army together to stop xenophobia attack.

Wait. So i can understand clearly. It took long for your army to destroy Boko Haram tanks, artillery etc etc because of malfunctioning equipment and internal issues. In this day and age, your army had to wait for imports before they took the enemy head on? Wow.

You're telling me post 2005 the mighty Nigerian army didnt have the capability to find and destroy all heavy enemy equipment within a few days? Where were your small teams of special forces armed with mobile anti tank capabilities to covertly seek and destroy heavy armour? They had to wait? Double wow.

agaugust:
....but your Gripen jet itself is a foreign imported product.....or you built the jet fighter ?

Marlin missile is still in dream stage until it enters service in 2020.

If you did not buy Gripen jet from Europe, how will you launch your missile?
.

You can do yourself a favour and not waste your time on me. There are plenty other people for you to quote if you want. It simply does not make sense to design and build your own jet during peace time. It would cost an extreme amount of money, tens of billions. Missiles and sub systems are strategic, and its best that they are developed in house.

Very simple example. If South Africa was to go to war with Sweden...will they come with a cargo ship and demand we give them back the Gripens they sold us? No. They will simply go to Germany and tell/ask them not to supply any Iris-T missiles. Leaving our Gripens naked. Hence the need for an in-house strategic asset such as A-Darter. Again, this is an example. Dont get a headache thinking about if war between SA/Sweden is even possible.

iblawi:
Our military still has better responsibility than your 40000 troops still fighter rhino poachers 4 years.

Please dont come here and make sh*t up.

iblawi:
U ppl keep forgetting fighting insurgents is different from full time warfare when u are all out to destroy. Boko harams are Nigerians and it is difficult to identify them. Not even in the north east where most ppl are farmers and they build their houses in the middle of their farms where boko haram can quickly get to with their motorcycles and run into bushes. Their is a lot u don't know.

For many weeks/months/years did Boko Haram drive around in MARKED tanks and armoured vehicles? What took Nigeria so long to atleast ensure that such heavy vehicles are destroyed? You were still waiting for new equipment to arrive from Russia? Any 2nd rate army must have the immediate capability to destroy heavy armour even within 24 hour notice....not wait for equipment to arrive from overseas.

The BH ploys on motorbikes came later on.

Marlin unguided flight tests to start late this year or earlier next year. Project funded by Denel and the South African Air Force. To give the SAAF a BVR capability of 100km. The relative quick speed of this project is due to certain sub-components coming off other missile projects such as Umkhonto and A-Darter.

Again cements South Africa's stance of prefering to develop projects which they deemed strategic in-house (or with a single trusted partner), rather than having to rely on foreign sources.

agaugust:
There is no place where DENEL publishes what you say I should google, why don't you post the data yourself to back your wild claims?

Rifles and MRAP is what I said, one single MRAP costs more than twenty Ingwe missiles, yes MRAP sales is DENELs biggest profit maker.

It means you didnt even check. It means you are just here for attention, and not an honest debate. Denel is required by law to release its financial results. Showing revenue, turnover, profits etc for all their business units. PDF's are free to download on its website.

agaugust:
That 28% contribution from rifles and MRAP could be the most profitable in terms of cost price and selling price, thats is what is called profit margin. The high end stuff maybe less profitable, especially when sold in very few numbers.

Most of DENEL profits come from rifles and MRAP....unless you can prove otherwise....but you cannot
.

My second last paragraph tells you to read Denel's financial report. Just google it on the net and read. My appetite for games is very limited. Like i told Henry...if you want to play games then have fun.

If you believe that selling 2000 rifles, has a higher profit margin over selling 100 missiles (given the higher cost of R & D and overheads in missile manufacture) then let this be the last few seconds i waste on you.

Frigate and strike craft out yesterday...pic belonging to Doug

agaugust:
DENEL's biggest profit source is not anything high end equipment. Most of DENEL profits come from tens of thousands of rifles and bullets, then MRAP.

Stop fooling yourself. How many countries on earth use high end South African weapons when your price is as expensive as those from Europe? Nations will rather buy from Aamerica, Europe, Russia since the price is same as DENEL products.

Again I say, stop fooling yourself.

I'll give you just 1 chance to reply like a gentleman. If you start making things up out of desperation, and start pulling figures without sources i will stop. There are plenty other people for you to argue with here.

This is what you said....

"DENEL's biggest profit source is not anything high end equipment. Most of DENEL profits come from tens of thousands of rifles and bullets, then MRAP"


This link posted just yesterday on Defenceweb shows that Denel Land Systems, which makes rifles and MRAP's contributes 28% to total Denel revenue....

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-40248/

[b]"Denel Land Systems' (DLS) billing as a consolidated, project-based, systems designer and integrator of combat turrets, artillery and infantry systems, small arms and armoured vehicles is upheld by a recent maintenance, repair and overhaul contract for 1,900 police assault rifles and the sale of 1,000 SS-77 machine guns

These, along with other DLS work including the new infantry fighting vehicle for the SA Army, saw the Lyttelton, Centurion headquartered business division contribute 28% of Denel's revenue in the 2014/15 financial year. DLS has, according to the latest Denel annual report, for the 2014/15 financial year, completed maintenance, repair and overhaul of 1,500 SA Police Service R5 assault rifles with 400 still awaiting refurbishment in the year under review.

Other work DLS' 630 employees were involved in during the year under review included bringing industrialisation and production on phase two of the new infantry fighting vehicle - the Badger - ahead of schedule and a renewal of interest in the new generation Casspir (NG2000) particularly from African countries"[/b]


Okay. From your own list we have covered rifles and MRAP's which are manufactured at Denel Land System, and we sit at 28% revenue. What is left? Bullets. Okay...those are manufactured at Pretoria Metal Pressings (PMP), which is part of Denel. You're saying PMP contributes a minimum of 22% of revenue selling bullets (22 + 28 = 50)?

Think long and hard about your answer. While thinking. Keep in mind there is still Denel Dynamics, Denel Aviation, Denel Aerostructures who must still add their share to a total of 100% revenue. Read the Denel financial report and see who the highest contributor was.

Now please tell us...when you said most revenue comes from rifles, bullets then MRAP's were you just making that up? I don't understand...who does it benefit by you just making up your own figures and fact? It's quite sad really.

lionel4power:
Allegations of Bribery

Bhim SPH: A 155 mm self-propelled howitzer variant of the
Arjun has been prototyped by fitting the South African Denel
T6 turret, which comes with the G5 howitzer to the Arjun
chassis. This project has been delayed as Denel has become
embroiled in a corruption scandal in India, and hence the
Indian Ministry of Defence has suspended the Bhim.

India cleared Denel of all allegations of corruption and de-blacklisted it, after their own 9 year long investigation.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/10923/India_Clears_Denel_Of_Corruption_Charges__De_Blacklists_Company#.VcxyvqO6LFo

mzilakazi:
DENEL MAKES IT TO THE TOP 100.



http://defensecontractormarketing.com/defense-news-top-100-global-companies-2015/

2015 Defense News Top 100

1. Lockheed Martin (U.S.) Website
Grade: 83%
2. Boeing (U.S.) Website Grade:
85%
3. BAE Systems (U.K.) Website
Grade: 59%
4. Raytheon (U.S.) Website Grade:
45%
5. General
Dynamics (U.S.) Website Grade:
51%
6. Northrop
Grumman (U.S.) Website Grade:
67%
7. Airbus
Group (Netherlands) Website
Grade: 67%
8. United
Technologies (U.S.) Website
Grade: 66%
9. Finmeccanica (Italy) Website
Grade: 59%
10. L-3
Communications (U.S.) Website
Grade: 49%
11. Almaz-Antey (Russia) Website Grade:
38%
12. Thales (France) Website Grade:
71%
13. Huntington
Ingalls (U.S.) Website Grade:
59%
14. United Aircraft Corp
(Russia) Website Grade: 60%
15. Rolls-Royce (U.K.) Website
Grade: 66%
16. Honeywell (U.S.) Website
Grade: 60%
17. Textron (U.S.) Website Grade:
78%
18. AECOM (U.S.) Website Grade:
86%
19. Booz Allen
Hamilton (U.S.) Website Grade:
82%
20. Safran (France) Website Grade:
67%
21. DCNS (France) Website Grade:
54%
22. GE (U.S.) Website Grade: 78%
23. Russian
Helicopters (Russia) Website
Grade: 38%
24. Leidos (U.S.) Website Grade:
81%
25. Babcock
International (U.K.) Website Grade:
38%
26. United Engine
Building (Russia) Website Grade:
34%
27. Bechtel (U.S.) Website Grade:
68%
28. Rheinmetall (Germany) Website
Grade: 51%
29. Elbit Systems (Israel) Website
Grade: 36%
30. Saab (Sweden) Website Grade:
65%
31. Tactical Missiles (Russia) Website
Grade: 32%
32. Israel Aerospace Industries (Israel)
Website Grade: 39%
33. Orbital ATK (U.S.) Website
Grade: 50%
34. SAIC (U.S.) Website Grade: 71%
35. Exelis (U.S.) Website Grade:
50%
36. Mitsubishi Heavy
Industries (Japan) Website
Grade: 42%
37. CACI
International (U.S.) Website
Grade: 60%
38. Hindustan
Aeronautics (India) Website Grade:
52%
39. Harris (U.S.) Website Grade:
60%
40. Hewlett-
Packard (U.S.) Website Grade:
89%
41. Rockwell Collins (U.S.) Website
Grade: 58%
42. CSC (U.S.) Website Grade: 69%
43. Serco (U.K.) Website Grade:
47%
44. ST
Engineering (Singapore) Website
Grade: 40%
45. Rafael Advanced Defense
Systems (Israel) Website Grade:
34%
46. Kawasaki Heavy
Industries (Japan) Website Grade:
57%
47. Cobham (U.K.) Website
Grade: NA
48. Oshkosh (U.S.) Website Grade:
51%
49. General Atomics (U.S.) Website
Grade: 51%
50. Aerojet
Rocketdyne (U.S.) Website
Grade: 62%
51. DynCorp (U.S.) Website Grade:
83%
52. UralVagonZavod (Russia) Website
Grade: 54%
53. Hanwha (South Korea) Website
Grade: 54%
54. Engility (U.S.) Website Grade:
53%
55. Embraer (Brazil) Website Grade:
59%
56. Fincantieri (Italy) Website Grade:
47%
57. Nexter (France) Website Grade:
52%
58. Dassault
Aviation (France) Website
Grade: 76%
59. LIG Nex1 (South Korea) Website
Grade: 34%
60. Fluor (U.S.) Website Grade: 60%
61. Korea Aerospace Industries (South
Korea) Website Grade: 22%
62. Aselsan (Turkey) Website
Grade: 59%
63. Accenture (Ireland) Website
Grade: 69%
64. Mantech (U.S.) Website Grade:
48%
65. QinetiQ (U.K.) Website Grade:
81%
66. NEC (Japan) Website Grade:
64%
67. GKN Aerospace (U.K.) Website
Grade: 62%
68. Ultra Electronics (U.K.) Website
Grade: 51%
69. RTI Sistema (Russia) Website
Grade: 48%
70. Krauss-Maffei
Wegmann (Germany) Website
Grade: 22%
71. Kongsberg (Norway) Website
Grade: 55%
72. Ana Holdings (Japan) Website Grade:
31%
73. Samsung Techwin (South
Korea) Website Grade: 59%
74. PAE (U.S.) Website Grade: 57%
75. Meggitt (U.K.) Website Grade:
48%
76. Bharat
Electronics (India) Website
Grade: 35%
77. Mitsubishi
Electric (Japan) Website Grade:
66%
78. Turkish Aerospace
Industries (Turkey) Website Grade:
57%
79. Moog (U.S.) Website Grade:
50%
80. AAR (U.S.) Website Grade: 63%
81. Cubic (U.S.) Website Grade:
46%
82. CAE (Canada) Website Grade:
56%
83. Alion Science and
Technology (U.S.) Website
Grade: 41%
84. Curtiss-Wright (U.S.) Website
Grade: 46%
85. Chemring (U.K.) Website Grade:
44%
86. RUAG (Switzerland) Website Grade:
40%
87. Ball Aerospace &
Technologies (U.S.) Website
Grade: 56%
88. Indra (Spain) Website Grade:
64%
89. Wyle (U.S.) Website Grade: 51%
90. Diehl Defence
Group (Germany) Website Grade: 75%
91. IHI (Japan) Website Grade: 41%
92. UkrOboronProm (Ukraine) Website
Grade: 35%
93. Battelle (U.S.) Website Grade:
60%
94. Patria (Finland) Website Grade:
44%
95. Day &
Zimmermann (U.S.) Website
Grade: 53%
96. ViaSat (U.S.) Website Grade:
24%
97. Nammo (Norway) Website Grade:
47%
98. Fujitsu (Japan) Website Grade:
77%
99. Israel Military
Industries (Israel) Website Grade:
43%
100. Denel (South Africa) Website
Grade: 41%

What a group to be part of. Denel has really done a good job.

Henry120:
I like your sincerity. With just a couple more sincere South-Africans like you've now currently shown, perhaps Africa could still be a better place. The only problem i now have with you is your consistent nagging.


We can now call it a day on this topic (with you), so i can face patches689 or JLN115.

Ok cool. No stress.

mzilakazi:
PEOPLE, @MR HENRY FAILS TO UNDERSTAND THAT AMERICA ALONE HAS OVER 100 DEFENCE COMPANIES, UK, ITALY, SPAIN AND OTHERS HAVE HAVE OVER HUNDREDS OF DEFENCE MANUFACTURING COMPANIES. SOUTH AFRICA ALSO HAS OVER 100 DEFENCE COMPANIES.

OF ALL OF THIS COMPANIES IN THE WORLD, DENEL CAME 100. THAT'S THE BIGGEST ACHIEMENT.

He understands perfectly. He's being a troll.

Henry120:
You are a nagging woman!


How was i defeated, 85% of all South-African defence exports are MRAPs. FACT!

You came last in the Defence companies ranking, another FACT!

Henry. Henry-o. You are not a stup.id person. Keep playing your games. Have fun with yourself.

Fine...your fact is correct. I agree with you. Im not arguing. Now that i've agreed with you. Can you please tell me, within the numerous defence companies in South Africa there is one called Denel Pty (Ltd). Does that company also make most of its revenue selling MRAP's? Yes or No?