₦airaland Forum

@Olaadegbu; Yahweh is not the father of no one. And Jesus being the way to Almighty has a time allotted to it; when Jesus started his ministry ending when another prophet [Muhammad [as]] arrived.

Jesus couldn't have been the general blanket in being the only way. Was he the way when Moses was the prophet?

Absolutely not. No one new anything about Jesus then. Those who were against Moses missed the way and so Pharaoh perished. He didn't perish under the ticket 'way' of Jesus, but Moses.

And there was no greater tyrant than Pharaoh. Even Hitler or Ariel Sharon were boys scout in comparison.

@Olaadegbu; « #196 on: Today at 01:38:03 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 01:32:38 PM
^^^^^^ The post before the one just above; He that is not telling the truth, let he be untruthful, still.

olaadegbu; whose side are you on in my last post; Jesus or Paul?

I am on the Lord's side and I believe the report of the Lord. Whose report do you believe?[/Quote]I dont know who is the Lord to you, since you are a Trinitarian. Further you may be calling Paul Lord, too.

Whose side am i on, between Prophet Jesus son of Mary and Paul? The side of my Prophet Jesus {AS}. Whatever is authentic from his mouth, I believe. Not just what somebody ascribes to him, which is not true.

@Olaadegbu; [Quote]"Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate [put to death] the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me.[/Quote]I dont mind if you embellish with the Bible. You can not embellish what is stated in the Quran. Put to death is Mayit or Maut. Show me in the verse where Mayit or Maut is written.

Terminates in the verse above is simply not allowing to continue on earth by lifting him up to safety away from his enemies. There is nothing to say that he will be put to death. This is why Surah Nisaa speaks about his not being killed or crucified.

How did you say he died in the Bible, again?
How did the Talmud say he died, again?

It is the Quran that says he did not die and he did not get crucified. Why not speak the truth when it comes to the Quran, instead of not?

^^^^^^ The post before the one just above; He that is not telling the truth, let he be untruthful, still.


olaadegbu; whose side are you on in my last post; Jesus or Paul?

@Olaadegbu; « #15 on: Today at 09:31:34 PM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta,

The evidence of Jesus Christ's resurrection has been exhaustively dealt with in the relevant thread. It is your right to believe whatever dogma you choose to believe but let me remind you of one of the evidences for Christ's resurrection that will be accepted in today's court of law.

The fact that Abraham Lincoln was born, became president, or was assassinated cannot be proven using scientific methods. To be scientific it must be repeatable (as in the testing of gravity). The proofs that Lincoln did exist and was a historical figure are:

* the written evidence,

* eyewitness testimony,

* physical evidence that remains to this day at the Ford Theatre, birth records and newspaper articles regarding his election.


All these facts are acceptable in a court of law as proof to a judge and jury. Garry T. Ansdell (D.D.) made a case out of this when he stated that "The resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead is evidential:



o the empty tomb still exists,

o His birth record is documented all the way back to Adam and Eve,

o the four Gospels record His death;

o the location, even the names of the political leaders who sentenced Him are historically recorded;

o there were more than five hundred eyewitnesses who saw Jesus after the resurrection, recorded by the New Testament writers;

o the very existence of the Christian faith, based on His death and resurrection;

o the cultural and political evidence at the time, including the Roman calender separating all of time into Before Christ (B.C.) and in the year of our Lord (A.D.)."
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-261358.0.html[/Quote]While I never said Jesus did not exist, your argument above, using the Lincoln elements support your belief, will not wash with me. People say the lifeless body of Lincoln, with the entry of a bullet from the gun. They tried to save him and a killer is also known. He was buried and remained so. There were statements from eyewitnesses, with real names.

The above are not the same with Jesus because some thought there was Simon of Cyrene. Another thought it was Jesus Bar Abba s, the very reason the Coptic has Pilate as a saint. The jews say that they stoned him. You said they hung him.

None of the 12 disciples, minus 1 you said betrayed him, leaving 11 disciples stock around to see the end of their leader. The jews who at later time thought they made mistake wanted to be sure of his condition much, much later, the reason he never showed himself in the public after he got out of the coma, well enough to grasp the fact that he almost was killed, if not by the Protection of his Lord Who he had prayed to so much. Or are you arguing that Jesus prayers were rejected? It would have proven against his prophetic office if that happened. Was there a time or a prophet whose prayer was rejected, after he had been allowed to make such a prayer?

I wonder why anybody would want to anoint [rob/wipe/ massage] a dead body as the women wanted to do? To have an empty grave is to proof that the one supposed to have died, was not dead in the first place. Funny that he did not wake up in front of anyone, if he was really dead?

Most of what you said seem to be in the line of saying " Sweetnecta" eats cereal for breakfast, therefore he must be a man, instead of a woman! Women eat cereal for breakfast, too. The people who erroneously claim Jesus is dead may stick with their story, even after they privately realize it was not so. Some may never know that their position is false. The truth is always constant, however. No one who wrote about jesus's death in the bible or two [jewish and roman writers] out it was an eyewitness.

However, the Seer and Knower of all events and affairs says in the Quran that jesus [as] was not killed and was not crucified. He raised him up and those who believe otherwise are doing so by conjecture[s].


The existence of the Christian faith based on his death and resurrection is not a proof that he died and resurrected. The whole world could have been wrong, if God Almighty Alone is taking a different stand, humans as a whole will be wrong, for one who is with God is a majority. Head counts is irrelevant here. Majority are often wrong.

@Olaadegbu; « #190 on: Today at 05:16:42 PM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta,

Why don't you concentrate on reading your Qur'an and hadiths that tells you what Jesus was purported to be saying in Surah Maryam, Aya 33 (19:33):

"So peace is on me the[b] day I was born[/b], the day I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!"

Even the Jesus in your Qur'an confesses what most of you guys deny or are you saying he got it wrong?[/Quote]when Jesus said the above, in the Qur'an, was he already born and the day of is death and day of his rising up were still in the future? Yes.

Therefore the day of his death should have the I shall, just as his day of rising up [to life again]. Both were at the time of speech in his future,whereas his birth was already in his past, being alive in the cradle as a baby, defending his Moma [Maryam].

The Quran says Surah Nisaa that they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him. It was made to appear so to them. Yet, those who [[the jewish talmud says that he was stoned to death] jews and [the christian bible says he was hung on a tree] christians. which is which? Hence Quran has the Truth, the option that is neither. so follow the truth and don't be deluded.] say he was killed and [or] crucified made this erroneous claim without any proof, since it an event of illusion. For sure they did not kill him nor did they crucify him. Actually, he was protected from their evil intentions and therefore was raised up, away from them so that they could not harm him in reality.

The Bible, later supported the position of the Quran by saying 'after death, we rise [we is more that 1 when it comes to humanity; creation] and judgment day. Further, even in this rising up of humans, according to the Bible, there shall not be any physical body.


Unless if God creates a new body? We see that Jesus had an old body. That cant be 'rising up' as the Bible says. And we see that Jesus will fall into being part of creation. The other side is that the Bible says jesus was not created. which is which?


You cant have God dying.
You can have God raising another God. One will not be God if this is so.
You can have a created God. He will not be God if this is so.

We cant have God praying to another God.
If this is so, he will not be God.


Using wikipedia, we should ask which of the two is correct ' Jesus or Paul' about Rising up or resurrection, in the 'new testament'? please read the below and inform us the one that spoke the truth. Thank you, Olaadegbu.

There is some disagreement as to what constitutes resurrection, as different scriptures in the New Testament have been cited in different fashion.[citation needed] According to an account in the Book of Luke, after Christ's resurrection he said to his apostles, "handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Luke 24:39 In the Gospel of John Jesus tells Mary "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father." John 20:17 Such permission to touch or touch not can seem in conflict with a corporeal nature. However we find another possible take in Paul's teachings: ", our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel". 2 Timothy 1:10

@Olaadegbu; i know you will dock your head about the below. maybe. but i wanna read how real or not you are;

please let science confirm who was killed; Simon of Cyrene who carried the Cross to the place of hanging, in the mist of all the confusion;

or

Jesus son of the father [bar abba s];

or

or Jesus who was called the anointed?


What form of death took place;

Hanging in NT or Stoning in the Talmud [mishna and its commentary]?

now i know that you are being jahaliah. so salaama. [surah furqan; verse very close to the end. in case you wish to learn].

please ndipe, we dont need to read what a christian person says that contradicts the biblical account.

read the bible yourself. killing was not what jesus expected for himself.

If Jonathan is the name of the President of Nigeria, rathan than GEJ, Allah is the Name of God The Singularly Unique Lord.

Jewish Arabs and Christian call Him Allah, too.

laa bi shein nuka sib. fa lakaHamd. wa laka shukr.

shukrlIllah niahma kulun.

of sight,
of speech.
of feel.
of reasoning.
of smell.
of health.
and on and on. my tongue. my lips. my 32 teeth.
etc, etc.

@Thehomer; If he done what he did without the public knowing, regardless of how bad it is, no one will kno about his evil.

The moment it became a public information, some portion out of the 1.5 billions people will not take it lying dawn. If no one had reacted to it as people react to 'mama jokes', where s there a possible 'you have gone too far' or what can we expect next time from a worse person than the pastor?

the pastor is supposed to be a person of higher moral value, so tell me what a person with less morality may do?

YHWH is not a True Name. Did He ever say I am Yahweh, or YHWH?

I am Who I am is never going to pass for a proper Name. You must have agree on this. Kay may be your name, but Kay17 can't.

We already know that Jehovah is European make up, long after the fact.

Elah, Elo, etc are accented Allah.

Present any proof that Allah can't be what Adam knew God's Name to be.

@Olaadegbu; the bible said that
1]. simon of cyrene was grabbed, he may be the one hung for all we know.
2]. between 2 jesus[es], the son of the father was hung. please can you tell us what barabbas means? [bar is son of. abbas or abba is father].

3]. the talmud tells us that jesus was stoned to death.


between the christians and the jews, who died, if anyone and what matter of death did he experience?


the coptic christians made pilate a saint. you don't confirm sainthood on the man who sentenced your beloved to death, or what manner of love or reason is in play, if you do?

can a man who is not hung be said he died by hanging? how can the person who is not dead resurrect?

@Elyas; Tawakul Alallah. Islam does not allow such an offensive introduction,

[Quote]« #64 on: Today at 07:15:02 AM »

Quote
Quote
and 'this' generation had long passed away, yet the verse was unfulfilled.
@joagbaje; where are you?

Quote
^^^^^ Lol. i know he can't take it.
joagbaje left his dirty work for those that it fit.

There is nothing about jews there, but the disciples.

there were 12 of them and they are all dead and gone.

It was a Jewish prophecy. Titus destroyed the temple according to the prophecy and no stone was standing on the other because he grinder them to powder . But you should know that in prophecy there is law of double reference. For some prophecies there is a fulfilment in the now and a futuristic fulfilment.

Another issue here is what the Word "Generation" means here. The prophecy is accurate. We may not have absolute interpretation at the moment. So was he referring to Generstion of Men Or the present people within generational age Of 38 years. it's for us to find out. Bible prophecies are accurate.[/Quote]Give all kinda interpretation that you want. Reality is reality. The same you guys will call human a ghost so that you justify your desire to deny. The same you guys will call a human being with limited knowledge God so that you satisfy your lust to hang your guilt on him.

If Jesus told people what he said in Mark 13, he was speaking to and about the generation that listened to his 'Gospel', and not you or any generation of jews or any nation after that 'generation of his disciples'. Twist it and turn it all you want, however the below Biblical verses are evidence of my statement. Now argue against them. It should not be very difficult for you, since you even argue against Jesus.



Let us examine the following bogus prophecies from the Bible:

Let us look at Romans 13:11-13 "And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in the orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immortality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy."

Paul and his followers all died and are now desolved into soil from bacteria and the judgment day still didn't come yet!! The judgment day was supposed to come during the lifetime of Paul and his followers. That's why he was telling them to be prepared for the hour was coming soon.


Let us look at Hebrews 10:35-38 "So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to preserve so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. For in just A VERY LITTLE WHILE [Jesus' return and Judgment day], 'He who is coming will come and will not delay. But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him.'"

What does "A VERY LITTLE WHILE" really mean to Mr. Paul? Again, he and his followers died and they never saw the day of judgment on earth!!.


1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

[Quote]« #60 on: Yesterday at 11:17:27 PM »

^Failed the question. The word "generation" has several meanings. You are just running with one of them.

Here are other meanings:
Quote from: Webster's Dictionary of American English 1828 edition
Generation. n
4. Genealogy; a series of children or descendants from the same stock.
5. A family; a race.
6. Progeny; offspring.
Example: Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam.

So you see the prophecy refers to the nation of Israel; the "family" or "race" of Jews; the "progeny" or "offspring" of Abraham through Isaac.

Quote from: aletheia on April 04, 2011, 03:26 PM
So long as there remains alive one Jew in this world, then it shows the truth and power of Jesus' words and the impotence of Allah. So long as in Jerusalem, there is still a Jewish presence, so long does it stand as a testimony to Islam and all who disbelieve that Jesus is Messiah and God. For indeed, heaven and earth shall not pass away until, all that is written is fulfilled.

The Jews (physical descendants of Abraham) and the Christians (spiritual descendants of Abraham) have not passed away despite your efforts. . .and so it is proven that Allah is a false god.[/Quote]If Jesus was addressing other people that his disciple, we may say that you have something in what you cooked up, above.

Unfortunately, Jesus made his '12 followers' believed he was going to be back while all of them or at least some or one of them remained on earth. Many a christian writers explained that the disciples believed this 'end of time' by his return to them, that they acquired little or nothing of worldly things. and they waited until they perished waiting.

other generations in the past have predicted he was returning in their times, with disastrous result because he has not returned. some are even proposing that the world is ending sometimes in May, and they have cleverly ruled out the return of Jesus, altogether.

if christians who are not in the habit of circumcision are laying claims to Abraham, i wonder what happened to the sign of covenant? Paul probably canceled that, too?


we in Islam have the most right to Ibrahim and each of the messengers and prophets [as] of God Almighty, over and above any right that Jews and or Christians can ever claim. but thats another show entirely.

If there is no sunnah and or hadith [saying] that we can attribute to the messenger [as], can anyone tell how do i get into the bathroom, from the Quran? Or does Usisky enter the bathroom, without any procedure, etc?

Allah says in the Quran that the messenger should say, if you love Allah [oh believers] follow the messenger. . . .

Allah further says " take what the messenger gives you, and rejects what he forbids you".

Could you explain anything from the above to us, in light of Quran alone, since you are saying there is no sunnah or hadith? Even Allah has His Own Sunnah.

@Oritameta: « #24 on: Today at 01:12:45 AM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta:

Its one thing to want to defend the actions of your fellow muslims but I'm not the kind of person you'd want to play the words game with. I didn't come up with the word "stiff-necked" of my own will. Its in the Bible, the same one you (muslims) say has been extensively falsified. Now, Ismael is the first born no doubt but you erroneously mention Ismael being the only son of Abraham and that his descendants are the Palestinians? Do you realize that from what you've just confessed, you've categorically broken off the false link you Muslims had hitherto had to Abraham. So who built the alleged Kabba if Ismael's descendants have always been living in Israel. Do you guys not claim that Abraham built it? *I'm spending more time laughing at your (Muslims) ignorance than I do writing this piece*[/Quote]I do not intend to trow jab for jab with you. however, a first child is always the only child before another child is born. in the case of Ismail [as], it is for 13 years, according to even the belief of the christians and jews on the matter. Palestinians are children of Ibrahim [as] by two reasons, either by Islam and or by being Arabs. No one says that Palestinians are the only children of Ibrahim, through Ismail. It is clear that Ismail was the father of the Arabs which included all Makkans at least the Quraishi where Hashimite clan rose from. Please think like today's man, instead of yesterday's where the idea that Ibrahim must be a jew, when the jew was merely a tribe from the 12 nations of the children of Jacob. which must come first; Ismail or part of his descendants, the palestinians [philistines]?



[Quote]Yes the Israelite were stiff-necked and the Bible shows us how they paid each time they went against God's will. The destruction of the first and second temple and the sending to exiles on several occasions and the last of such which was the siege of Jerusalem in AD 70 in the Jew-Roman war was as a result of their stiff-neckedness. Their stiff-neckedness wasn't against neighboring kingdoms, it was actually because they joined their neigbours in idol worship. It was for this that God punished them but guess what, he made a vow with them, an everlasting vow, because it's through them that salvation was to come to the world. Salvation through the Lord Jesus.[/Quote]from exodus till the time israel was torn to Israel and Judea nations, tell which neighbor they didn't kill; Jebusites, Hetittittes, or people of Jericho? Almighty will never support an evil people, it is that very reason that the prayer of Ibrahim [as] was answered on Muhammad [as] being the last messenger with uncorrupted Book. You actually dont know the Legacy of God. The Almighty is not unjust, hence He will not support forever a people that killed, disrespect and or disobey and reject His Messengers and Prophets [AS].
It would be act of injustice that God will bring about the type of salvation that you say is through jesus, because the people who died before jesus would have been cheated, if that was true. The Almighty is not unjust to His creatures, the reason that you need to open your mind and know that what you advocate of salvation is a farce.



[Quote]The Hittites and the likes you made mentioned were drove out of the land as God commanded the Israelite because God had promised Abraham to give the land to Isaac and his children. It should as well interest you that Abraham bought a piece of land from this same Hittites during his life time.[/Quote]Imagine if those Hittites were believers of what Moses brought, could they have been "driven off" since you didnt want to say that they were killed, which was what actually happened? Isaac is not the only child of Ibrahim. He had a brother older who was circumcised at the same time Ibrahim was being circumcised. Isaac came much later. Further, what happened to the children of the twin brother of Israel? Did you forget Esau? Your bible or you are playing unfair at every opportunity you have to tell any story.



[Quote]Next time, before you start writing about Israelis acquiring land through conquest, try reading the brief history of your own country Nigeria. read about how OYO Ile ruled and how it lost its kingdom even to the extent of relocating from the porch King Palace in OYO Ile to the present day Alaafin's residence. Better yet, read about the conquest of the Caliphates. Yes, The four Caliphates that ruled after the death of Muhammed and read about how they conquered lands and spread religion. Where was the Crusade fought? In Mecca or in Europe? Was the Caliphate and his army teleported to Europe? They fought wars, conquered lands and established kingdoms. Also, have you ever sat yourself down to reason how come a mosque sits on the Temple Mount? A Place that had housed two separate temples built by the Children of Israel to worship God. Did the Mosque disappear from Saudi Arabia to the Temple Mount? Was it not built after one of the Caliphates conquered and ruled over Jerusalem? Pointing at the details of wars fought, won and lost by the Israelite as a yard stick in our modern age is simple being hypocritical of sensible reasoning and common sense.[/Quote]First verse of Surah Isra [Children of Israel] will educate you, plenty. Please pick up the Quran and read.



[Quote]Now to the verses from Quran. After reading the above do you really still seriously think we should dive into that? really, do you think you can walk the work with me?

One last note, I'm deeply sorry if I sounded rude or disrespectful in anyway in the above post. Sincerely I am but that wont stop me from taking you head on though should you want us to kick ourselves in the balls and see who's gonna hurt the most. Grin[/Quote]No groin kicking. You may die by the first blow. Please approach the Quranic verse. I am waiting.

Generation disciple.

Jesus, according to the bible was talking to them.

Thank God that some people do think. No one but his generation did Jesus address.

Usisky and the rashid kalifah concept; they are probably equal to nigerian chrislam.

the #s 2 to 4 of why we were created above, from him or them, cant be supported by Quran or Hadith. this is from the late kalifah, different from what we find in Quran, and the Hadith of the messenger [as].

Are there any muslims among the jinns? yes there are. for example all the jinns created with 240,000 prophets [as] are made to be muslims. they are suppressed from being means of disobedience of God, the reasons islam take the prophets to be sinless.

[Quote]« #71 on: Today at 11:00:47 AM »

I wonder why Allah is not called Brahman in India.[/Quote]Why Allah is called Allah by Muslim Indians, in Mumbai, the Hindus in the same country call Him Brahman, as long as He is not the Deity that they represent by any statue.


Why Allah not Brahman to the Muslim Indians is because they are not Hindus by religion.

However, if there is an original Name that all the people of the Indo-pakistanian subconyinent calls The Unrepresented by statue Creator, the muslims when speaking their language among themselves may say it to mean Allah of Islam. it will be similar to Olodumare that i will mention to another yoruba muslim, or the Chineke that an igbo muslim will say to another muslim.

Deep Sight has explained just as much as anyone could about Allah being Olodumare or Yahweh, Chineke, Ubangiji, etc to those who speak the language.

and 'this' generation had long passed away, yet the verse was unfulfilled.

@joagbaje; where are you?

^^^^^ Lol. i know he can't take it.


joagbaje left his dirty work for those that it fit.

There is nothing about jews there, but the disciples.


there were 12 of them and they are all dead and gone.


you have to do better than provide such a weak excuse for an obvious gaffe; i mean failed prophesy. if you insist that it is the jew, then i will say that the message that was 'originally' to the jew is to kept, still to the jew [only].

@Thehomer; « #66 on: Yesterday at 11:12:21 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:52:28 PM
@Thehomer; what did the Olodumare worshipers called themselves, if sango worshipers were known as onisangos?

you can't leave a mere statement on the table without any support, and expect us not to ask you to provide any supporting proof.


It is a fact that Olodumare is not a new word or idea among the yorubas. tell us who the earliest yorubas took Olodumare for. did the worship Him directly without going through any lesser god? if they worshiped Him directly, what were they called, since sango worshipers were onisangos?

if they worshiped Him through lesser god or gods, give us the name or names of the lesser god/s, while you let us know in addition if Olodumare was the Supreme God by their concept, and what did they call themselves?

They called themselves Yorubas.[/Quote]if the yorubas addressed Olodumare directly without the lesser gods, they have imitated Ibrahim [as]. those yorubas are hanifans, another word for Muslims. you didn't know that or did you? muslims are called many names, including, hanifan, subirun, sadiqun, ghafirun, etc [consult the Quran] including muminu.

@Thehomer; what did the Olodumare worshipers called themselves, if sango worshipers were known as onisangos?

you can't leave a mere statement on the table without any support, and expect us not to ask you to provide any supporting proof.


It is a fact that Olodumare is not a new word or idea among the yorubas. tell us who the earliest yorubas took Olodumare for. did the worship Him directly without going through any lesser god? if they worshiped Him directly, what were they called, since sango worshipers were onisangos?

if they worshiped Him through lesser god or gods, give us the name or names of the lesser god/s, while you let us know in addition if Olodumare was the Supreme God by their concept, and what did they call themselves?


If vadexcool is yoruba [i think he is], i as a yoruba muslim says Olodumare to him, he knows that i am talking about Allah. so where is your rational, for saying Allah is not Olodumare? when a yoruba muslim family names the new born Olorunfemi, does it mean the same Olorunfemi of the new born of the christian family across the street?


my Olodumare is different from that of animist, and that of christian is completely different. Should i drop the name as a yoruba because an animist uses the same name? are you arguing that yorubas do not believe in a One God Who creates, and He being Invisible, since He is not being represented by a figurine, while the youbas believed that somebody actually descended from heaven?

@Gbenga bonetalk and oritameta etc;
gbenga didnt quite realize afghanis have gone through war experiences. similar behavior to those who went through war [eg nigerian civil war; the veterans were wild after the war]. there are two factors that lead people to bad behaviors; ignorance of what is good and blatant disregard to goodiness while choosing to do bad things.

Read the Quran, with its strict rulings, a knowledgeable muslim or a muslim who does not let his basic emotion [id] clouds his Islam will not be riled up to the point that he/she kills.

Oritameta refuses to acknowledge that the ancient israelites are the forefathers of the present jews, who are still stiffnecked. but more importantly, even back then, they kill people for Yahweh sake; those who didnt worship like them not for violating their books was the reason they destroyed Jericho, the Hittattites, etc. Just imagine if anyone had violated the jewish books back then. the jews of today are no different; they kill, pillage, rape palestinians specifically because they are not jews.

if Abraham was the father of the jews, the reason they have the right in palestine, so does the palestinian, for the same reason. Before israel, there was isaac. and before isaac, there was ishael the first and the only son of Abraham.

i want oritameta to point to a verse in the Quran that supports the killing in Afghanistan, and maybe he will also point to a verse that support crusade or inquisition, etc. the crusade according to former president bush is a thing relevant today.


of course my statement is no way in support or providing excuse for this bad behavior.

@Tweety121; shall i hear/read from you soon, now that you have my email, set up for our conversation?

check my earlier post.

@Thehomer; whats the average muslim thinking?
is it a poor thinking because it disagrees with yours? you do know that there s only one truth; it is unchanging will lies switches a lot.

neither you nor the pastor will be able to give us the names of those yorubas who worshiped Olodumare alone before christianty or islam or judaism arrived there [i dont know a yoruba jew, but there are some igbo jews, so replace Olodumare with Chineke and my statement is still valid]. or will either or both of you argue that the pre christianity, pre islam, pre judaism knew of Olodumare [pastor already stated it], but with that knowledge they left Him alone unworshiped, neither directly nor through the lesser gods they assume to be His representative on earth, bringing them closer to Him while acting as the intermediary because they often feel that they are rather too inferior to approach Him, directly. this is the same idea that the christians and many others carry on, today while they call themselves His children.

but the muslims who say that they are His slave, instead of installing patrons or partners approach Him and talk to Him, One on one.

can thehomer or his 'mentor' pastoeaio tell us when was the first 'lesser god' invented/installed on earth, and why it came about [the reason or the process it was manifested]?

if either one of you know, can you share with us if you think the yorubas kinda copy this idea to formulate their lesser gods?

in either case, was it not a fact that The Singularly Unique Creator [God/Olodumare, Chineke, etc] was already known?

will you share with us who believe in a Creator [the people with lesser gods believe in a Creator, too] if Adam was not a believer in a Creator that created him? or are you saying that Creator concept came about long after Adam?

i am asking you a chicken or the egg question. which is first to be known; One God the Creator, or the many lesser gods concept, before One God? Adam must have worshiped through one of the two the first time he worshiped. the One Who created him and warmed him against nearing a particular tree is One God.

tell us your version of events. we in Islam know our version, the truth.