₦airaland Forum

@Deepsight; « #38 on: Yesterday at 09:53:30 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Pastor AIO on Yesterday at 09:30:18 PM

If the core doctrines of christianity that you outlined are really core doctrines of christianity then that would mean that Jehovah's witnesses were not christians. They don't believe in trinity, or the oneness of Jesus with God.

In fact that would mean that those 'christians' before the doctrine of trinity was judged to be acceptable were not christians.

Excellent. Cardinally articulated.

Now take a moment and read again the above. Recognise that it simply shows that which i have tried to put across: namely that religious doctrines are dissimilar!

For the very reason that these very dotrines you have artiulated vary from sect to sect.

Now it is you and I that contend that Love is all that matters. Many contend that too. Nonetheless we must be sincere in acceding that the vast majority of the Christian world regard such elements as the trinity and redemption by the sacrifice on the cross to be absolutely central to Christian doctrine! Particularly redemption by the sacrifice on the cross! - Nor can you deny - even by a reading of the bible - that that dotrine is central to Christian thought. I needn't be tempted to produce the quote where you advised me that the redemption by cricifixion was a sacred rite completed before the founding of the world.

You therefore may not deny that that is a core christian teaching.

Pray, tell me where such a dotrine may be found in Judaism, Islam, Busshism or Hinduism? That is the point i seek to make.

Aside that, i very well understand and accept the obvious common threads of truth: such as the common adjuration towards human love and brotherhood.

Quote
Abeg now Deepsight, cool down for me. Sebi we be padi? No dey vex for me like that now.

Your repeated snub notwithstanding, I am the richer for interacting with you sir.[/Quote]I do hope that you at least feel that all the generations of humanity that passed before the cross would be considered doomed, if the crucifixion is all the only truth for salvation, forgiveness, redemption? Can The God Who set up such process by morally just to those people before the crucifixion, since there were sins recorded and acts of repentance and forgiveness were known even as early as the time of Adam [AS] and Eve? What role did the cross play in those generations or are all of them destined for hell? Why was Moses given victory over Firawn then, and what was the importance of the Taurah he was given? Id it just if the likes of Hitler who was a christian were to enter paradise for believing in the cross, while Gandhi ended up in hell without wasting a single innocent life versus Hitler with 6 millions only from the jews, not counting other?



@vescucci (m); « #39 on: Yesterday at 10:05:54 PM »
[Quote]First, I have to salute some posts. This thread is turning out to be really something.

Quote from: Deep Sight on Yesterday at 07:52:42 PM
Religion is a variegated quest for truth. However, given that it is colored by human tradition, culture, politics, warfare, and even economic considerations, Religion, and religious doctrines are diversified, notwithstanding that common themes do permeate the lot.

Religion, however, is to be distinguished from TRUTH.

Truth is constant. Religion is not.

To borrow Dulcet's method: +75. Mad_Max likes to say no religion has a monopoly on truth. Which is to stress the fact that you can't rest on your laurels because you're a Muslim, Christian or whatever. You are still kinda charged with the task of 'poke-nosing' into other faiths and ideas to get a full picture, or as close as you can get to a full picture. Where I am different is that I believe that whilst many religions contain truths, they're not necessarily truths descended from God. Anyone could've said love your neighbour as yourself or give to the needy or any of those cool stuff. I believe if we follow our moral compass, we know what's right and what's wrong. Some people are good even when they do wrong because they do it for the right reasons and some are evil when they do good cuz they do it for the wrong reasons. Only God knows about all that. We're to try our best.[/Quote]What is the constant Truth except Guidance from God Almighty through His messengers and the books of singular core guidance directing us to consciousness of The Almighty in worship?

if the messages were not essentially singular in its core, then every religion would have correct? the way to God could have been each person his/her own way, is it is just not one way alone starting from Adam and Eve, the earliest human.

no everything that glitters is gold. A true message/guidance from God is often hard to accept. but such a guidance has a direct connection with was the earlier generation was guided by. We see that all books say that God is One deserving all worship, obedience, reverence, etc. Only He should be feared in what He told us to abstain from because He dislikes it. Only He should be loved, the opposite of fear. We should love to hasten to please Him in all that He commands.

It is a test that will be rewarded if we obey God in even the littlest of His commandments.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ i did not make my last post with the thought that somebody is against Islam by wanting to know what Fitra means relative to the 5 pillars of Islam.

what i tried to do, and i hope that that my effort was some form of introduction to the connection that they have [fitra and the 5 pillars] was to answer the curious mind, even directing such a mind that the 6 articles of faith are part of Islam and Laa ila ha Ilallah is the most important and has over 70 levels to it.

There is the concept of false hope that humans exhibit when they are in disbelief.

A muslim who sells alcohol for example may say, 'after all i do not steal'. He forgets that he remains only muslim by name. but not a true believer by deeds.


imagine the person who is not even a muslim, say a multi godhead worshiper. He may say that he does good and that is enough and cant see why God will punish him, forgetting that on every level he disregards God's commandments, but follows his own desire.

The good he does though shall earn him benefits only on earth, without any reward of it in the day of Judgment for rejecting the Commandments of God.

@Tweety121; my Allah return you to Islam. Amin.

Allah says in the Criterion that 'and I did not create jinn and mankind [the two we know that are endowed with freewill], other than to worship Me. No feeding of Me do I ask of them'.

I think your not being around muslims is like a lamb not being around the herd of sheep. Such a lamb will easily imitate the specie it hangs around. This is the very reason you easily capitulated with just a little push into Trinity, a religion that is no less than idolatry.

A muslim father should know that a muslim mother has right over him for bring her husband before any other group of mothers. The mother is naturally the one that raises the offspring[s]. it is better that she believes in One God [Islam] rather than let her beauty allures you.

I have the same experience. But we also see how the west is now accepting Islam, while people from Islamic background are being lost to disbelief.

Is your father still a muslim? I wish him well. And your mother to accept Islam before the certainty/reality. Amin.

@Dulcet17; « #18 on: Yesterday at 07:32:32 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Pastor AIO on Yesterday at 05:29:04 PM
Since I've been on Nairaland I have seen anyone mirror my standpoint so precisely and yet say it so differently.  I especially like the term Inaugural objective.

It was this question that I asked on the Islam section in different terms.  I asked how the practice of the 5 pillars can bring anyone to the state of Al-Fitra. Till today I have not received an answer.  If your religious practice does not bring you to that pure state then how can you claim to be practicing a pure religion.

I like to place the emphasis on Practice.  And sometimes our practice can be faulty and not lead to 'optimisation'.

Also when you say 'some religions carry out functions that detract rather than sustain the global objective' I am assuming that you are referring to religions as organisations, not in the ideology itself.[/Quote]Fitra is natural inclination based on original knowledge. Allah is the One Who impacted or gave that "Fitra'" on man and makes it a compulsory and testimony of human acceptance of His Godship, instead of associating anyone with Him [the trinity, idol worship, or leadership worship are clear examples] or rejection of His Presence or Existence [Agnostic or Atheism are example].

Allah says in the Quran that He took the souls of the children of Adam from his loin and says to them 'Am I not your Lord that you should worship, alone?" They all affirm that Allah is their Lord without any other. Allah then says that He took this oath from us so that we will have no excuse against Him.

Allah then made Adam our father a prophet, on himself, his wife and all his family on earth, teaching them to seek forgiveness when they transgress, as he and his mate sort forgiveness of their only sin. Allah turned to him and his mate in Mercy. Hence, he remained in the fitra, along with those who sort forgiveness unlike Cain who killed his brother and nowhere was he mentioned to turn to Allah for forgiveness. Satan also continues to pile up sins and engaged in mischief in leading humans to sinfulness, whereby many more dies on the errors without seeking forgiveness which is readily available from Allah.


As the religion of Islam is now complete on the last messenger with the five pillars, as you rightly said, the most important which is the most natural inclination of them is the first; There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah The Almighty, Alone.

If a person believes this at least from the age of puberty, this is the time of record beginning, such a person is a true muslim, remaining on the fitra of the oath that he swore/bore to Allah in his state of heavenly spirit/soul without the earthly body.

Such a person will have natural inert disposition to be conscious of Allah, and eager to obey Him. Hence part of that obedience is making the prescribed daily salah; action that Allah says will prevent a sincere worshiper from evil deeds and loving to do good deeds in reverence of Allah.

Charity brings in the heart of the giver the ability to detach from excessive love of worldly possession, knowing fully well that the return is to Allah.

Fasting helps the one who is observing it to feel the condition of those who are without, not by choice of fasting but by lack of not having.

Hajj is a way to meet other muslims not just from your immediate community, pointing out to the ujaj [hajji] that the community of believers extends and includes many colors and hues.

Allah of the above really in obedience to Allah, which is based on the Fitra established on mankind when the oath was witnessed.

The belief in God as the first in the five pillars have at least over 70 levels or branches. The least is removing harmful things from the pathway so that people do not get injured.

Yet there are 6 article of faith; Belief [in] Unseen God, The Angels, The pure revealed books, all messengers and prophets of God, Day of Judgment [Paradise and Hell] and divine decree [the good and the not so good].

When you observe the natural instinct of babies to imitate a praying muslim, you will know what is meant by Al Fitra being inert in mankind based on the oath already taken in our spiritual form.

@Dulcet17; Nowhere in Taurah of Moses or Injil of Jesus will you find God saying to the prophet, your religion is Judaism or Christianity. Allah says in the Quran that Islam is the religion He ordains on us all. He says that Abraham was neither a Jew nor Christian, but a Hanifan muslima, upright in his worship of One God, Allah.

www.islamicfinder.org/articles/article.php?id=1004&lang= - Cached

“Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) narrated that Allah’s Messenger (p.b.u.h.) said, ‘By Him in Whose Hand is the life of Muhammad, he amongst the community of Jews or Christians hears about me; but does not affirm his belief in that with which I have been sent (i.e., Islam) and dies in his state (of disbelief), he shall be but one of the denizens of Hell-Fire.’” (Muslim 1/ 284)



islamworld.net/true.html - Cached - Similar

   "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3)

   "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)

   "Abraham was not a Jew nor Christian; but an upright Muslim." (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:67)


The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim)

Thus, the final Prophet of Islam is reported to have said, "Any one who says: There is no god but Allah and dies holding that (belief) will enter paradise".(Reported by Abu Dharr and collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).

@Dulcet17; Goggle search hadith of Muhammad [as] that says anyone who hears about me, or Islam or Allah and does not begin to concern himself to know the truth, has leaned towards disbelief.

Quranic verse that says Islam is the only accepted way for mankind, chosen by Allah. Other ways [religions] are henceforth unacceptable.


If a man lived in the time of Moses, but insisted to believe Noah and disbelieve Moses, such a man has disbelieved Noah as well. The correct way to believe Noah in the time of Moses, was through Moses [what Moses says about him in general and what he says is still relevant about Noah. it will make no sense if such a man saw Moses crossing the sea on foot, but decided to row a canoe instead as in the time of Noah].

Similarly, it is Muhammad's way that leads directly to Allah the Almighty, today instead of Moses or Jesus or any old time prophet [AS]. those who reject Muhammad today have in actuality rejected the prophet the claim to follow, except that they do not realize their error[s].


Could you define what direct prophet[hood] from God Almighty is? Use Moses or Jesus, or Noah or Abraham if you agree that each was a prophet. What book did each receive to preach? Or what did each preach? Were their teaching essential the same, rooted in the sole worship of God? After all Jesuss worshiped God Almighty and even cried to Him? Is there any god other than God?

@Dulcet17; [Quote]Sweetnecta good morning to you (I assume you are in Nigeria). Please note that I didnt say a Sufi mystic represents all Muslims, just like the Christian mystic does not represent all Christians.

Rather, the mystics of whatsoever pedigree from Eastern faiths to Western faiths all agree that religion is a cloak, a mask, a covering, a surface.

Im not a mystic but I agree, and this thread is asking: are they correct? If so, then why all the inter-religious conflict?

With due respect to your faith, I do not believe in the idea of a "last prophet", which tends to human worship and blind dogma because each prophet's way of life often generates a new religion or a new perspective on an old one. So if this new viewpoint is taken in isolation of all precedence and current exposure to wholesome truth, trouble will brew.[/Quote]You will have to believe that Jesus son of Mary was the last prophets among the children of Israel, Joseph being the first since Jacob was Israel himself. Was there a prophet from the children of Israel after Jesus? Of course not. This is also the case with Muhammad being the last of all the chains of prophets which began with the first man, Adam [as] and ending in truth with Muhammad [AS]. Has there been a prophet after him? Of course not. We can call the likes of Mormon's Joseph Smith a prophet in the same category because how many times shall the Bible be re-revealed? This is similar to those people call God, even if they are human prophet [Jesus in this case when he is called god the son] or Angel [Gabriel in this case when he is called the holy spirit] or even ordinary men who call themselves prophets [Church pastors in this case who mislabel themselves] or Cult leaders [Jim Jones, David Kuresh were called Gods by their followers. Even The Chicago based Nation of Islam called "Faraid" God].
By the way all real prophets, from Adam to Muhammad [AS] are brothers in their prophetic mission. They had a singular object from God Almighty Who sent them that they should proclaim His Oneness and the Only Deity Worthy of Worship. Allah says no messenger from Him will say to anyone that they should worship him instead of God Almighty Alone, The Sustainer, The Cherisher of all.




[Quote]As long as there is wickedness in the world, God will keep on raising prophets and teachers among men until love snuffs the life out of wickedness to fellow man and nature.

For all the true prophets who have ever been, there is something to learn from each of them. They are shining lights in the dead of the night.

They are there so that you wont make any mistakes they made, if they did, and so you can finish whatever good they started among men.[/Quote]Are prophets teachers? If so, all Christians should pay attention to part of job description of Prophet. It is human prophet who taught his community, and not voiceless holy spirit, especially when he was to hear and speak to human being. Ghost cant speak unless he manifests himself, just like how he spoke to Mary, he being in form of a man.
Could you tell me who was the prophet after Muhammad [as] and who is a prophet that you know walking on earth today? What does he bring from God Almighty and what book is his book?

We have to accept that a street like one mile away was only good to lead you when you were there sometimes10 or 20 minutes ago. That is similar to what a prophet of a past era is.

Moses was the light of 50 blocks ago. Jesus was the light of 20 blocks ago. Muhammad is the light of the longest block that you live in and it is the block that extends to the city limit. To say that the dimmed lights of 50 and 20 blocks in the past is as brilliant as the light of the lamp that you under its rays right now is not telling the truth, especially if they are made by the same Maker.

@dare2think; [Quote]@ sweetnecta
you talk about the prophet being the last messenger of the undiluted truth to the world. I know very little about islam and it's doctrines but lets say as i go home tonight something horrible happens to me and i happen to pass away, am i supposed to to be confined to dine with satan even having little knowledge about the "undiluted truth". Is it going to be my fault.[/Quote]Lets assume that just before you read my post, you never heard about Muhammad [as], Islam or Allah. You should at that time be what we call a Hanifan; a person who negates all form of worship that may make things or creations [man, etc] to be object of due worship. You are to ponder about nature and natural thing, thinking about Who makes them this orderly in their complexity, as they are no intelligent enough to come into being by themselves or organize themselves so perfectly.

However from the time you read my post, your priority should have changed from that very moment when you heard about Muhammad [as]. That should have been enough for you to switch gear to begin to ponder about who this man Muhammad [as] and what is his role in the lives of man, today.

A person who switched gear from that moment, throwing away every idolatry thoughts, if he dies before discovering who Muhammad is, he at least became a Hanifan. If not a full muslim from that point, he is no more a disbeliever for sure. On the day of the great meeting, he will be tested to see if he would have followed the messenger or not if he had known about him [as] om earth. if he passes his test, he will be admitted to Paradise. if he fails his test, he will be herded to hellfire because if he knew about the messenger while on earth he would have refused to follow him.

God says that He will not unjust to His creatures; man, jinn.

Ever person who reached the age of puberty will made to grow to the height of Adam and the age of Isa bin Maryam [as to both of them], to dwell in Paradise in peace and contentment or to dwell in Hellfire in unending punishment, if Allah The Almighty Wills it so, alone.

When he was a man amongst you, approved by God Who sent him.

Yet if you make him partner with God. such action is blind faith and it is idolatry.

@Lagosshia; « #166 on: Yesterday at 09:26:28 AM »
[Quote]would those who attempt to kill prophets and those who actually killed prophets be forgiven?what is their punishment?and if they will be forgiven on what basis?what is your view on forgiving or punishing them?do you pray for their forgiveness?do you endorse their actions?please answer each question.[/Quote]The former enemy of Islam who killed HAmza [ra] finally became Muslim, a companion of the prophet in the lifetime of the Messenger [As]. This same man [Washi] and Ali bin Abi Talib [ra] both killed an enemy of Islam in one of the later battles, in the lifetime of the Messenger. Those who are evildoers from the house of the prophets [Noah an Lut [as]] were punished in the lifetime of each prophet. When it came to prophet Muhammad [as], his uncle Abi Lahab and his wife were declared to be doom and died as indicated in the Quran in the lifetime of the noblest of all messengers[as].
we cant say that Aisha [ra] his wife who say him not only as a husband, but as a mate/husband and he died in her presence is the same as the doomed wives of Noah and Lut. She was not punished at all in the presence of the messenger [as], instead was supported by Allah when the slander slandered her with rumor of infidelity. I do not pray for the killers of prophets. No one of the following is the killer of any prophet [AS]]; Abi Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Aisha, Hafsa [ra]. Tell me which prophet any killed, if you know.



[Quote]your statement is equal to calling the sahabas "prophets" or chosen men.there is nowhere Allah chose the contemporaries of the Prophet Muhammad.if Allah chose the contemporaries of the Prophet Muhammad,then did He also do similarly for other prophets?then what happens to the sahaba of Issa who sold him and thus betrayed not only Prophet Jesus but the trust of Allah given to humanity in the form of a prophet.[/Quote]While my does not by any stretch of imagination amount to calling Sahaba [ra] prophet [as], Allah chose which soul that must live in a particular time, unless you do say we occur without Allah's firm design of when we arrive on earth. Further, some have argued that ahadith can be found where the messenger [as] said if there were not that no prophet will come after me, a companion would have been a prophet. I remember reading a piece from you where you said the messenger said Ali bin Abi Talib [ra] to me is like what Harun was to Musa{as]. Incidentally both were prophets.
The second blod is not known from the Quran. Allah did not say that a companion of Issa bin Maryam[as] betrayed him. If you know the verse in the Quran that indicates such an event, let me know. Maybe you have ahadith that you can share with me. Please do, since I am just a toddler in Islam.



[Quote]even yazeed could have fabricated a few hadiths to say that he was promised paradise.[/QUote]Are you saying that there is no good news of paradise to any companion of our beloved messenger [as]?



[Quote][b]the problem is you do not know the rank (maqam) of the Ahlul-Bayt.secondly you're trying to diminish what happened to them and the attrocities committed against them by viewing what happened as simply "disagreement".that is not the case.the members of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) who Allah has cleansed and chosen and especially the ones chosen divinely as "imams" (leaders of the ummah and successors of the Prophet) were murdered.the daughter of the Prophet herself was threatened that her house would be burnt down.when people informed umar that the daughter of Muhammad is inside,he said he doesnt care.Hussain,the grandson of the Prophet was beheaded.if you view all the attrocities and calamities that befell the Holy Household as mere "disagreements",then you really got to question your heart.something is missing somewhere.

to us Hassan and Hussain are of no less importance than Isaac and Ishmael.to us saying "Allahuma salli ala Muhammad wa Alli Muhammad kama sallaita ala Ibrahim wa Alli Ibrahim" is very important and has deep meanings.if you claim that the sahabas who were fallible men and far from being angelic or prophetic were chosen by Allah,then how much more the family of the Messenger of Allah?but your claim anyways is wrong.
[/b][/Quote]While i do not think that the shia has a leg up in love of the messenger and his believing household than others in Islam, there is no way you can read my mind and know where i lean in all my posts. No one has exclusivity based on what club or group they belong to. Prophets are [AS] while others at best [RA]. The Christians think that they truly love Jesus son of Mary as they exaggerate his praise. Yet it is the Muslims who give him his full measure of love and leadership that is due him [as].



[Quote]do you also find it impossible that the wives of Noah and Lot who are cursed in the Quran will end up in hell?do you find it impossible that the Prophet Muhammad's uncle and his wife will end up in hell according to the Quran?these are things we must look into objectively and not what we feel about them with our soft hearts.[/Quote]Tell me where any of the following is put in the category as above; Abi Bakr, Umar Khattab, Uthma Affan, Aisha bint Abi Bakr [Zaujat Muhammad [AS]], Hafsa bint Umar Khattab [Zaujat Muhammad [AS]].



[Quote]that is not islamic at all to say that the followers must always be like the leaders.so what happens to the one that betrayed Jesus from among his own companions?[/Quote]Apart from the fact that my statement above is something of deep thinking, I believe there is a hadith towards that idea. I do not know any verse of the Quran that says that a companion of Issa bin Maryam [as] betrayed him. maybe you need to show me, since I am not dealing with the Bible in our brotherly conversation. Those who accepted Nuh [as] as their true leader went into the ship with him. Those who accepted Lut [as] as their leader were saved with him. The followers of Tyrannical Firawn perished with him.



[Quote]ameen!
you're welcome!!
wrong concept again!!![/Quote]from the sahaba of Muhammad [as] we had Ali who slept on his spot not fearing for his life in the hands of the makkans. from the same sahaba, we had Uthman who entered Makka and didnt make Umrah because others were not even allowed in. From the same Sahaba we had Umar who did not make his migration a secret, daring the makkans to go against him. from the same sahaba we had Abu Bakr who the prophet chose to be his companion during the greatest of the migrations.
in the companion of Jesus, using your statement, we have a betrayer. the bible says that peter denied him 3 times before dawn. no one of them was present at the alleged hanging.
Please tell me which set of companion is more  noble? Which is the more noble leader, since you are a muslim? Who did Allah complete Islam upon, stopping revelation on him and making him the only messenger to all mankind; Isaa bin Maryam or Muhammad bin Abdullah? Alhamdulillah. Thanks for your efforts.

finally, it is Islam that is not named after a person or a place. No one worships Islam or Muhammad [as], but all should worship God, Alone.

while mystic idea is not of sound Islam, to quantify Islam by it is absolutely the wrong understanding of Islam.

God mentions His Proper Name to us through that very religion of Islam.

He says to us that the earlier scriptures have been tampered with.

He says there will not be any more book of guidance from Him after the Quran. Hence He guarantees its purity till end of time.

By His choosing to end revelation on Muhammad [as], He made him the only messenger to the entire creation, being the last of those who say as leaders of communities that 'there is no deity to worship but the One Singular Deity; Allah', declaring that Jesus was a messenger [as] of the God [Allah], too, a leader of his community in his time. Allah therefore says that Islam has been chosen for mankind as the only way to Him, since over 1400 years ago. Allah says whosoever desires another way, it is such a person who have lost indeed, because whatever he/she chooses will be rejected.

The Quran identifies what the way is known as; Islam and the adherent is a muslim [not sunni, not shia, not sufi, etc].

Knowledge precedes worship. Guidance of Oneness of God precedes deviance. It is deviance from truth that leads to multiple God or godhead concepts.

A person who deviates from guidance cant say that he/she is obeying the leader he/she professes to follow. If a headmaster arrives at your school, you cant say that the former headmaster is going to be your headmaster just because you hear how wonderful he was in his time, even though there was no reason for you to reject the present headmaster, under whose authority you must have your education. This is the case with prophets, whose tenure came and ended; Moses before Jesus. Jesus before Muhammad. Muhammad the last of them, without ever having any new messenger after him.

A shiny apple may be rotten, similar to falsehood, disbelief. A gem in the rough may be unattractive to those whose hearts have been swayed by deceiver; satan. And I seek protection of God against the acursed satan.

Follow the guidance of the prophet of your time. No one followed Jesus in the time of Moses. No one who truly believed would have rejected Jesus for Moses when the son of Mary was preaching what his Lord revealed to him, which was what he was sent to do.

Why would a true believer no reject Muhammad [as] whose prophetic period we exist in, and not that of either Moses or Jesus [as]?

^^^^^^ Thanks lagosshia;

i read all that you wrote. may Allah open our eyes and give each one of us great idayah. Amin.

Allah has stated that the sin He will not forgive if one dies on it is Shirk, alone.

other sins are forgivable if Allah wills.

there is only one last prophet, just as there is Only One God the Judge Who chose the sahabah for the messenger [as].

there is a known fact that the messenger [as] gave the good news of paradise to many of his companions [as] while he was alive.

it is also known that he gave ten names of hypocrites to a specific trusted sahabah.

all of these 10 hypocrites died after the messenger [as] who instructed that each of the hypocrites will be known because this very trusted companion will not come to the funeral of any of them.

we also know that while Abu Bakr [ra] did not pray in the masjid of the hypocrite and did not take the zakat of that wealthy hypocrite, when he died, the trusted sahabah [ra] did not stay away from his funeral.

Umar, Uthman, Ali were all murdered. how can we say that the good news of paradise that the messenger [as] gave to these people [ra] except for Ali [ra] is wasted? Worse, that the statement of Allah in Taubah verse 100, is now incorrect? I read 101 and from my ability to reason, and your explanation, i did not find any of these people to be destined for hell fire because their 'disagreements' with Fatima and or Ali {ra}.

Allah is the Only Knower and he is the Only One that determines who will end up in Hell. I find it impossible to accept that the prophet [as] will be a husband of a woman who will end up in Hell and his closest companions are destined for hell, too, while Allah does not give us a clear indication of that in the Quran, as in the case of the earlier prophets who say the evil people from their family destroyed.

We in Islam say the awariyun of prophet isa bin Maryam [as] were believers. How is it that we say the closest companions of the last prophet [as] are 'hypocrites", considering that the leader deserves those he leads? and the followers deserve the leader that leads them? what are we saying of the prophet then, in this case?

May Allah forgive each of our shortcomings. Amin. For me i say Allah chose the best leader [as] for the best companions [ra]. Thanks for the dialogue.

^^^^^ many places in the Quran.

the most famous is chapter 112.

another is chapter The Merciful.

another is chapter The Sovereign.

many verses from Chapter Hashr.


Verse 255 of chapter 2.

there are still many more, including the first 4 verses of chapter 1 [surah fatiha]


read the Quran for your own benefit.

@LAgosshia;Thanks for your insight.

did you notice that Allah says in the bold [100], that garden has been prepared for them?

if almost all the sahabahs are excluded by just a sin or two after the passing of the messenger [as], which of the sahabah will enter paradise, thereafter;

more hardly to believe, which people after that generation [ra to the true mujahiruun and the ansar] will enter paradise, when no one is a masoom except the prophets [as] who Allah protected for their work as bringer of His Messages?

show me a shia or a sunni that is sinless, if there is any? i will love to read about his or her life, including all published on public materials.

@Shiamuslim; can you for sure that the below verses, especially 100 does not inure [exclude] the early immigrants, especially the companion of the Messenger, when the Messenger [as] migrated? please give me something to understand; a verse that abrogated this, or a hadith will be sufficient. thanks. may Allah plant our feet on the sirathal mustaquim, as our soul is being extracted. Amin.


Surah Taubah.

100. And the first and foremost emigrants and helpers and those who followed them with good. Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Allah and for them, He has prepared gardens under which rivers flow. This is the great success.

101. And some villagers around you are hypocrites and some of the dwellers of Madina too, hypocrisy has become their habit. You know them not. We know them. We will soon torment them twice. Then they will be resumed to a great torment.

102 And there are some others who acknowledge their sins and mixed up a good deed with another evil. It is near that Allah may accept their repentance. No doubt Allah is Forgiving. Merciful.

^^^^^ if their permanent residence is 'the heaven' what logic is their to have the names in 'guestbook' of that very heaven?
did jesus come to his position through 'cross', 'guestbook', etc as you ae recommending for others? did noah experience the same cross and guestbook?

the worst kind of offering is the offering of the life of a man. yet animal offering, the blood and the flesh, neither The Merciful needs to show Mercy and Forgiveness, except sincere repentance and obedience to Him afterward, incuding in worship.

thanks lagosshia/shiamuslim.

@Trex73; Islam says the Proper Name of One God Who creates all creatures is Allah. It is pronounced Elah in Syriac. Similar sounds with accented variants in other semitic languages.

The way to obey Allah chosen by Allah for mankind is Islam. Quran; chapter 5 records Allah saying that He perfects it on the last Messenger from Him.

Chapter 3 of the Quran and many chapters say that all prphets, including Jesus are muslims. Check out chapters 2, 3, Surah Maryam, The Prophets, among others to know the truth.

Jesus worshiped his God Elah in the Bible. this will shed more light on the issue for you.

The Creator, Who has no beginning and Who has no end.

He was before time, before beginning.

Every thing is creature to Him Who created all of them.

He initials and brings everything to being.

He is 1, without family, partner, etc. Unique.

He created you before you were created.

He made you testify to His Lordship, being the Only One to worship.

He sent prophetic entity of your kind to you with guidance to give you the blue print of how to succeed in the quest of His worship.

If you succeed He will show His Mercy and Appreciation by making you inherit paradise.

If you fail, the punishment in hell is the just justice. But while alive, one can repent and start on the path of success. The Gos is always ready to forgive those those with sincere repentance.

The singular purpose of the creation of man is to worship the Creator, alone. Submitting your will to His Will [Command].

there are rules for worshiping God; the rule for each of worship is from God. alone. you cant make it up. if you do, you have not worshiped at all.

Allah says to the Messenger about his after midnight prayer, to not do it all night, part of the night, 50% a little less or a little more. we the followers of the prophet [as] are told that it is 1/3 of the night. the at one so that you could make your morning prayer in the same wake up period. in addition, we are given 5 daily prayers, at prescribed times. in between, you have your time to do things of life, including afternoon nap.

and fasting is prescribed between before dawn and after sunset, in the month of ramadhan.

the other fast, if obligatory will not be 1 full month long. while it is permissible to fast, there is no permissibility to fast all year round, or months without a break. when you are not even capable to fast in ramadhan, you can repat what you miss, before the next ramadhan.

islam is easy. it permits marriage and forbids extremist in all its form while recommending moderation and middle course, alone. Allah does not make religion of Islam, the way to worship Him a burden on mankind. but a means of direct connection to Him, staying in remembrance, often returning to Him.

prescribed charity has its ruling, too.

@Lagosshia: Salaamualaykum wa Rahmatullah.

Please help me with these issues;

1]. If the Bani Israil [Jew] have been muslims, could the palestinians who are majority muslims could the two parties have been at war, all these while?

a. could the jews have started out the way they did to establish another nation, alongside their brothers in faith?
b. could each have been so intolerant about the other?

2. has any muslim nation or people invaded another muslim nation so that they can establish a new nation?

3. issues of Sharia; what is the sharia on muslim killing anyone or muslim just because they are foreigner who happens to be loved by the opponent? use the condition of the bahrain as your example if you will.

4. was Ali bin AbiTalib [ra] a shia?

5. which one[s] of his children was/were shia, the exact sect of islam that you say is the true islam?

6. show me an ayah of the Quran that says shia islam is the right guidance.

7. show me a hadith of the prophet that says shia islam is the right guidance.

8. which is better; the masajid haraam and al nawawi and aqsa or the way the shia masajid?

thank you sir.

all of the above do not diminish the lofty status of the Quran. it has amount to nothing. islam will enter the heart that is pure and purposeful.

pure water does not. dry land does not.

you hardly find such an ideal situation. further the most mundane can induce fear. that may just be the source disaster, just like a swimmer will perish in the water, whereas the same water is not the waterloo of a person who hardly swim.

^^^^^ A lady who 'uncovers' that what are not showing are below the neck to above the knees, have disobeyed Allah. the below tells us just in the best and direct manner of the truth about it. some people have argued 'in vain' that there is no prescribed punishment for it. but do we ignore that nudity goes against the command of Allah and think it has no consequence?


in surah azhab [33] ayay [59, we read the following; O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

further verses that address men and women alike;
“O children of Adam, We have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best garment is the garment of righteousness. These are some of God's signs, that they may take heed.” [Qur'an 7:26]

"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do." [Qur'an 24:30]


hadith about modesty,obviously including your clothing; Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: ‘Faith consists of more than seventy branches. And haya (modesty) is a part of faith.’” [Sahih Bukhari]

@ladej; « #19 on: Today at 02:26:44 AM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 02:06:44 AM
could any of you give me the purpose of your life?

why are you here?

i need proof. something that is logical [sensible].
i feel my purpose is to help people. it could be in relation to careers, love, a kind word, a shoulder to cry on, or plainly listen.[/Quote]the bold is neither a clear singular purpose nor anything noble about the purpose of your being here. your answer does not logically or sensibly answer the question. you say feel and could to indicate uncertainty in addition to being of too many purpose along with the illogical quality of your answer. i didnt say purposes and i want something that a logical person can relate to when he/she hears or reads it, put him/herself or somebody else into the logic of the statement. everyone of us have this singular purpose with any exception. your listed 'purposes' are at best byproducts of the singular purpose.



@thehomer; « #20 on: Today at 07:12:48 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 12:51:06 AM
let see if lightening is striking people left and right of you, in an open field. when they are dropping like flies, will you not fear that the next jolt may just be coming for you?

No I won't. The appropriate thing to do in such a situation is to avoid being the highest point on the ground.[/Quote]true if your brain didnt freeze. Further the thought that your body may still get hit, if the wet floor runs the current to where you are laying or you are now surrounded will scare you which itself may induce fear in normal mind.



[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 12:51:06 AM
and lightening may actually herald the good news of hope for a believer; it say just bring the needed rain shower, while for others it blinds their eyes and deafens their ears. suddenly they have fear in their hearts.

And yet others, it may send them to their desired great beyond or just plain fry them.[/Quote]is there at least a fear in the heart of the person who may be fried here? considering when the frying is just about to begin. . . .

[Quote]ok then, what of if a woman chooses not to cover her face, mouth, nose and ears in public, but cover from her neck to just below the knee cap. Will Allah or u be ok with that?[/Quote]a person who covers for the wrong reason is not pleasing Allah. he/she is a hypocrite. no one loves hypocrisy. no one.

so, about my saying that i am okay with someone pleasing Allah means that i am happy that it is for the correct reason.

remember that i am nobody, nothing. Only Allah matters. and i said earlier that i will not force anybody to cover even though i will remind the person enough so that it cant be denied that i reminded. pleasing Allah is a choice, obedience to Him.

could any of you give me the purpose of your life?

why are you here?

i need proof. something that is logical [sensible].

^^^^^^ if thehomer didnt understand what i meant because of the way i used the too many proposition, i wonder if he will know fear when it reaches him? or will he not fall into doing things, out of not knowing that may bring him the condition that the fear that will come out of it will be too much to ignore?

let see if lightening is striking people left and right of you, in an open field. when they are dropping like flies, will you not fear that the next jolt may just be coming for you?

and lightening may actually herald the good news of hope for a believer; it say just bring the needed rain shower, while for others it blinds their eyes and deafens their ears. suddenly they have fear in their hearts.

@yommyuk; « #7 on: Today at 07:46:43 AM »
[Quote]Quote
For sure Abraham was not a jew [by blood or religion

i will ignore the religion part.

Referring to the bible which is the "ABSOLUTE WORD OF GOD" -- Romans 9:4-5 states THE JEWS ---
"They are the people of Israel, chosen to be God's adopted children. God revealed his glory to them. He made covenants with them and gave them his law(thru MOSES/MUSA), He gave them the privilege of worshiping him and recieving his wonderful promises. "ABRAHAM", Isaac, and Jacob are their ANCESTORS, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise. (Amen)

There are also historical facts that in Jewish tradition, Jewish ancestry is traced to the Biblical patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the second millennium BCE,

We can also trace Abraham ancestory back to Noah's son -- SHEM - Genesis 11 (8 or 9 generation from Noah)[/Quote]If a single word or sentence can be quoted from the Bible to contain an opinion of other[s] than God, the idea you put forward about the absoluteness of the Bible, as in the bold above definitely dies. How about the roman verse about? Even the Genesis 11 as well since we do not read God talking in the manner of either verse. The Arabs can trace his lineage to the very same Abraham, as long as you dont forget Ishmael the first and must be only son even for a time. Covenant was sealed by circumcision. It was Ishmael that got circumcised the very same day as Papa Abraham. I hope you are getting this to your heart? And israelites is more dynamic than Jews. Jew is a tribe or nation from the 12 Tribes or nations of israelites. A benjamite is not a person from the tribe of judah and or a Levite.
for instance all of us are children of Adam, and them an offspring of Noah. those of us who claim to be monotheist say that Abraham is our father in faith. It is this very reason that we are circumcised and Ibrahim [AS] from the Quran says to God; I have settled part of my family in a barren land. He continued to supplicate God Almighty to bless the place and today we know that Makka is blessed, nothing less than Jerusalem. The jews have a joke; they say that in their journey of 40 years, if only they had gone in the direction of Makka [even though they were there], they would be owner of the Petrodollar today.



[Quote]Quote
they did not even hang around when the 'master' was being arrested.
Come bro, what's up
John 21 spoke of the "Restoration of Peter", the first appointed shepherd by "Christ" himself". These are the obvious areas where Islam and Christianity differ. Your lot preach by Jihad, sword, and Blood, but We preach PEACE be unto u.[/Quote]The same peter that paul said i will tell him to his face? I guess thats part of the absolute word of God, too? Tell me if peace be unto u is what the christians are spreading in Afghanistan and iraq for a start, the reason so many have died in these places? Whats As sSalaamualaykum wa Rahmatullah of the muslims, if you spread peace of the christianity by the bombs od shock and awe?



[QuoteQuote
i will say that their sudden ability to suffer as in above verses if not sign hypocrisy
Wrong. It is their boldness at the aftermath that enhanced the growth of Christainity. They witnessed the ASCENSION and Angels came down to confirm it.[quote][/Quote]No wonder jesus said he will say to them when they approach him saying that they cast out demons in his name, that he does not know them. He is talking to the christians, including the people he addressed as people of little faith seeking a sign. he was not talking about the muslims since we do not seek to do anything in his name, anyhow.



[Quote]Acts 4:13
“The members of the council were amazed when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, for they could see that they were ordinary men with no special training in the Scriptures. They also recognised them as the men who had been with Jesus.[/Quote]Didnt Jesus teach them the laws of the old prophets [Torah] at least which i am thinking you call "scripture" above. considering that he said no one should abolish even a jot from it? This verse actually is an argument against their sincerity with Jesus who they all run away from in his hour of need. No wonder they needed to be corrected by the ghost at pentecost.



[Quote]LISTEN TO THIS BRO – WONDERFUL
Acts 4:19
“Do you think God wants us to obey you rather than him? We cannot stop telling about everything we have SEEN AND HEARD. – AMEN[/Quote]The acts, etc are proof[s] that the Bible could not possibly be absolutely the Word of God, especially the construct of Acts 4;19.



[Quote]Quote
the first bold is by itself an evidence against them who would not even suffer along with jesus who has been their master all along! i will say that their sudden ability to suffer as in above verses if not sign hypocrisy, it has to be just punishment for their lack of true faith, may it was the reason jesus called them 'ye of little faith' and has predicted that on the day of judgment he will say to them 'i never knew ye'. people could actually be punished for evil right here on earth while people may say that they are suffering for their faith.

therefore the above makes no sense
I will back to give u more info[/Quote]considering that the master who was sent by God would have known those who truly suffered, they blew their chance as they ran away. for them and you after this chance that was lost turn around to call them people of gallantry is actually showing you do not know what gallantry means. When jesus was whipped, that was gallantry. when peter ran away, and or denied him, that was the opposite of gallantry.

^^^^^^ if the covering is from the heart in obedience to Allah The Almighty, i am ok with it.

it may bw your desire that they should strip naked, abasing themselves to the level of shameless beasts. that is only your desire.

those who obey God will find satisfying good in the act of obedience.

they sure fair better than an almost nudist colony in the concrete jungle. no wonder it is a jungle in the heart of the city.

no one is shy or bashful anymore,

@Thehomer; you are free to deny and or define the reason and or ethics of morality.

it is a common knowledge that if there is a law against anything, anyone who goes against the law has committed an offense that merits the punishment for the crime. do you not fear or get concern or fear your society coming down hard on you, punishing you for the offense, if you dare to disregard the rule of law?

let use an example of the lady pastor out of england who the britishers say is involved in modern day slavery. she is being sent to prison for something that will not even be notice on the rader in ekot epene, nigeria.

how about a christian man marrying more than 1 wife in germany and not keeping it under wrap?

how about a german question holocaust, publicly?

there are many more examples that will get you punished because this society or that has a law against it.

just imagine a person calling himself osama bin laden infront of the us capitol. that will get him punished for pulling such a simple prank.

people fear the repercussion, is the reason for not committing offense in the society.

if there is no law against indecency or nudity, some people are ready to be naked or put on the barest minimum and arrive at the cross road of the world that is the other name for times square.

if humans are concerned so much that they refrain from committing offense against the country that they are, only the most vile of conscience of persons will say, there is no God that will take account of my action, hence i do not fear Him, or God is Only Love and never should i fear Him though we hear of hellfire. what do you think hellfire is meant for; recreation place like St tropaz?

What is the purpose of your being here on earth? This is the question that you need to seek its answer as it is important to your hereafter.

i'm happy that Job [as] feared and love God.

didnt Jesus follow the same patter of fear and love of God?

didnt Moses?

If they didnt fear Him, would Moses not after stopped himself from going back, again and again to Pharaoh, the tyrant?

my man, dont be a tyrant against your own soul.