₦airaland Forum

blueAgent:
Well said.

The fruits of God's people are evident in their obedience to God's doctrine and not in walking about aimlessly like Nomads.

I love this, MaxInDHouse needs to learn this

Ken4Christ:
When people die, the spirit of the righteous people go to heaven and the soul of the lost goes to hell.

During the final judgment day, those who died will rise up the dead to face the final judgment. The souls in hell will be released and reunite with their bodies to face final judgment.

So when people die, they are judged, then they resurrecti and are judged a second time is that what you are saying?

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ it's obvious you are confused now try to go and sleep maybe when next you recover you can get back to me.

@ Matthew 7:15-20 Jesus was talking about PRODUCING the fruit of faith not eating fruits.

So go and take care of yourself it's not easy trying to argue blindly after seeing you have lost the debate!🤔

Ok, let's use your word producing fruits. Please can you point out the fruit because the one you mentioned is a scam.

MaxInDHouse:
The point is they must do things the way Jesus established it if not then i can't believe they are for Jesus!

If all missionaries are for Christ then the Muslims are also producing the fruit nah after all there are Muslim missionaries too.

So to make it real the group must follow the same pattern Jesus and his disciples did in the first century that's what the inhabitants of Antioch noticed! Act 11:26

So Jesus Christ and His church called and set apart men from among the church as missionaries
Just like Paul and Barnabas in the book of Acts so again, are all churches doing this eating the fruit?

MaxInDHouse:
Paul was a honest hearted and sincere Jewish scholar trained by Gamaliel a Pharisee highly respected for his honesty so Jesus knew Paul wasn't doing all that with wicked intentions that's why Jesus called him directly but still Jesus directed Paul to go and meet his ORGANIZED GROUP! Act 9:3-16🙂


This is what Jesus meant by FRUIT.

If anyone decides to do something not the way the founder of Christianity did it in his own time and handed it over to his disciples such a person can't succeed in making real disciples like Jesus did.

So instead of arguing over how to get the work done we BOW to what we read in the Bible regarding the way Jesus established the work!🙂

Please don't change topic.
You have admitted that any church that is involved in missionary work is actually producing that fruit so let's continue with that.
I have been preached to by members of so many churches that I can't count.
So that can't be the fruit unless you claim that everyone is eating that fruit.

So please do you insist that any church with a missionary department is eating the fruit or are you going to make another U-turn your 4th of the night

P

MaxInDHouse:
This is a LIE!
Jesus directed Paul to go and meet the disciples so they can welcome and teach him what to do by Jesus' ORGANIZED GROUP! Act 9:3-16
So Paul must rely on the Apostles for him to know what to preach and teach that's why he couldn't solve the problem that arose regarding doctrine but was sent along with Barnabas to the Apostles in Jerusalem! Act 15:2



Another lamba!
Mention the church you know that their members and leaders are preaching from house to house and door to door like Jesus and his Apostles did in the first century!

Paul's first meeting with Christ was individual so you are wrong.
Now, every church has its own missionary method and system. Yours is not better. Some preach in the market, some go from door to door not only JW. Some preach in buses, Some preach online. The commandment was to go into the world and preach that's all that matters.
Today the Catholics have hundreds of millions of members that's the fruit of preaching. They seem to be doing a better job than you.

Lastly, in the bible, people are called and set apat as missionaries please read the book of Acts.
Jesus Christ specially called 12, and then 70. He never instructed that the entire church be called as missionaries so where did you get your doctrines from.

I'm

MaxInDHouse:
This is where the FRUIT comes to play! Matthew 7:15-20

First of all if you think Jesus is teaching each individual then there is no reason why you should expect someone who also believe in Jesus and the Bible to ask you for anything after all everyone should ask Jesus waiting for him to teach them individually!

So let's go back to the GROUP setting.

The Apostles are the small GROUP Jesus handed over the teaching of his disciples to {Act 2:42} but how can we know if the GROUP is teaching heresy and not what Jesus taught?

Jesus answered: By their fruits!

What is the fruit expected of Christianity?

God planted a tree which is Jesus himself {John 15:1} so this tree started having branches {John 15:4-5} if any of the branches doesn't rely on the tree it can't bear fruit so it will be cut down spiritually speaking and it will wither. John 15:6

So what is the FRUIT?

Since Jesus is a preacher from house to house and door to door till his execution all his branches (Apostles) also remain preachers from house to house and door to door in turn all his fruits are also preachers from house to house and door to door. This is what the inhabitants of Antioch noticed before they began calling his disciples CHRISTIANS {Act 11:26} it's like seeing mango in the market of course you can't call it any other name than "MANGO" because it's only mango tree that can bear mango! Matthew 7:16-18

Now concerning the so called GROUPS you are talking about.
Are their members know globally for the work of preaching and teaching from house to house and door to door as Jesus commanded all his disciples? Matthew 28:19-20🙂

Your first paragraph is an intelligent point but it is your opinion not gospel teaching.
Jesus Christ appeared individually to Paul not to a community.
So what are the fruits of Christianity?
To follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.
You made a good point , Jesus Christ called sent men to teach the gospel. Today almost every church I know calls and sends out people to preach so that can't be the fruit because it would mean that everyone is following Jesus Christ.
The fruits are the doctrines of Christ written in scripture.

So if your point is that any church that has people doing missionary work is the choosen group, you are talking about almost every church

MaxInDHouse:
I told you already:
Jesus never taught a single individual for that assignment.
An individual can pray to God secretly for guidance on certain matters {Matthew 6:6} but when it comes to deciding on matters involving teaching Jesus' disciples it could only be as a group that is when Jesus will be there in spirit to guide them {Matthew 18:20} that is why Paul and Barnabas were sent to the Apostles (GROUP) in Jerusalem on matters involving doctrine that could be disputable {Act 15:2} so that it's what the GROUP concluded upon that's binding on all the disciples in the first century. Act 15:23-29
Jesus said whatever this GROUP bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever the GROUP loosen on earth will be loosened in heaven. Matthew 16:19
So can you now present the group that's teaching you just as you are seeing the way first century disciples of Christ were ORGANIZED and ORDERLY? 1Corinthans 14:40

You are just going round in circles.
No where is it written that Jesus can't teach an individual. He said, my spirit will teach you. His spirit does not sit people down to teach them as a group. It witnesses to individual hearts. I have always told you to depend on the bible and not on guesswork or human calculating.
You are claiming that because Jesus Christ taught 12 men as a group, it is impossible for Him to teach an individual. Neither Jesus Christ or His apostles made such false claims.

Lastly the Catholic church is also a group same with many other churches so you don't really have a point.

Now make your 3rd U-turn of the night, I am waiting

You are now making the claim that as long as it is a group that claims Jesus Christ taught them, you believe but some how, you don't believe any other group making the same claim.

EDGEof2MORO:
Hmm, I dey give you facts, you dey call am argument

It is well, enjoy the rest of your day

MaxInDHouse:
Just as the Apostles claimed Jesus taught them and i believe because the setting is well arranged so also the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses also claimed Jesus taught them and so far so good everything is well organized just as it was with the first century Apostles!🙂

so you believe anyone that told you Jesus Christ taught them but not me?
Listen to yourself,
so if you claim that Jesus taught you directly to go teaching others then i will take you for a liar.
But your white lords made the same claim and you swallowed it.

Let me continue to quote you

WHY?
Because that is what led to contradiction in the churches of Christendom as each individual wants to establish his own church claiming Jesus taught him directly

So even by your judgement, the actions of your white overlords led to contradiction on Christendom because they established a church claiming Jesus Christ taught them.

Now, I know you are going to make a mighty U-turn so let's have it.

If Jesus Christ can teach your white overlords, why do you think he can't teach me?

MaxInDHouse:
Good question!
Jesus TAUGHT a GROUP of MEN and told them to teach his ORGANIZED GROUP of his disciples so if i found a GROUP of MEN and see what they are able to achieve {Matthew 7:16-18} with imperfect humans from all the nations throughout the earth {Matthew 28:19-20} surely i will accept such a GROUP as my own teachers too as Jesus never handed over the work of teaching to any single individual so if you claim that Jesus taught you directly to go teaching others then i will take you for a liar.
WHY?
Because that is what led to contradiction in the churches of Christendom as each individual wants to establish his own church claiming Jesus taught him directly!🙂

You started by saying good question but you did not attempt my question. I am not sure I even get your point.
My question is who taught the founders and leaders of your church. Do you understand it now?

MaxInDHouse:
Going by their FRUIT that's the one and only true Christian organization on earth today.
So let's talk about your true TEACHERS at least the ones who taught you!🙂

And what is the name of the organization?
You ask who taught me when everything I have ever discussed with you is in the bible. Don't Jesus Christ and His apostles make the best teachers?
Again you some how feel that I must present a teacher to you but you don't require the same from the white man council that controls your organization.
Have you ever asked them who their teachers are?
The JW council don't seem to have any known teachers and you are comfortable with that so why are you not comfortable when I don't present you a teacher.
Or is it because of skin color?

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
That's not the point we agreed to resolve with the Bible it's about how to DISTINGUISH BETWEEN TRUE and FALSE TEACHERS.
That's why i quoted Jesus who said it's by their fruits {Matthew 7:15-20} so after condemning an organization claiming they are false teachers i asked you to present the good teachers at least those who taught you the Bible!🙂

So let's do one thing at a time before moving on. Do we both agree that the JW is a false organization? We need to build on that before getting to deciding which organizations are not false.
I actually thought you agreed with me on that already. Please confirm.

EDGEof2MORO:
I am willing to bet that Trump knows who the best student in his class. It does not mean they are unknown.

You know who the best student in your class is. I don't. I can not then come to nairaland and declare that the best student in your class is unknown. And no it's not hating, it's using your head to think.

One more thing, being the best in a group, especially in school is a form of success. To be president is not the only type of success

Now we are arguing about nothing. My question is, we can all see Trump's successes and achievements from a thousand miles away. He has done so much for himself, and it takes knowledge, intelligence, and courage to get to that level, like him or hate him. If you respect success, you will respect Trump.
I am not sure you were the one complaining about his vocabulary. That's just being childish. Do you get my point now?

MaxInDHouse:
I asked you a question and you chickened out claiming you have agreed nah!

It was how to distinguish between TRUE teachers and FALSE teachers not just setting your own standard and judging without presenting your true teachers nah!

You use words you don't even understand. I already told you that we should use the standard of the bible and you agreed.
And using the standard of the bible, I asked you what happens to man after death, but you refused to answer. Or do you have a better standard than the bible? Lets hear

MaxInDHouse:
OK if that is what you call "agreement"

Or you want to continue to disagree?

EDGEof2MORO:
What if that best student in Trumps class does not want to be known? Trump himself probably knows who the person is and a few other classmates but that's about it.

Not everyone needs social media popularity or public recognition to feel complete. Some say that urge for public validation is a form of insecurity.

"If I am not smart in my class, maybe if I become loud and all over the place, people will admire me"

. We are not talking about being loud or not; we are talking about achievement. Trump has lived a life of continuous achievements. In real estate, his buildings define the skyline of many great cities. On TV, he had one of the most successful programs of all time. In politics, he has become by far the most remarkable of our century. The question is, do you respect success, or are you just a hater?

The best student in Trump's class is unknown which should tell you something

MaxInDHouse:
So in a nutshell you can IDENTIFY false prophets if i'm to go by what Jesus said false prophets will gather members who can't practice what Jesus and his Apostles taught. But it's OK now that you have concluded JW organization has false teachers can you now present the true teachers and explain what FRUIT they produced?🙂

At least now we both come to an agreement

Flangelo12:
A man that doesn't read is ignorant.

Vocabulary is a measure of your exposure to literature and interactions.

Trump's professor said he was the worst student he had ever met.

His obsession with Tariffs, the fact that he's only just stumbled on the word groceries , tells of his aptitude.

Grifter, certainly not gifted.

You are right about a man who doesn't read being ignorant. But unfortunately for you, you don't know that vocabulary is only the tiniest measure of a man's knowledge.
Do you know other great men whose professors complained about?
Albert Einstein
Thomas Edison
Winston Churchill
Isaac Newton
Charles Darwin
Leonardo da Vinci
Mahatma Gandhi
Louis Pasteur
Gregor Mendel
Steve Jobs
John D. Rockefeller Sr

You can see that Trump is in excellent company.
But then, can you tell me who the best student was in Trump's class? What did he end up achieving? What is he known for?

A mediocre student ends up becoming one of the biggest brands in real estate, the most prominent names in TV, and one of the most remarkable and recognizable leaders of the 21st century.

Honestly, I would rather be in Trump's shoes than in yours with all the vocabulary you know.

MaxInDHouse:
To avoid contradictions among his followers Jesus handed over the teaching of his group to a group of trusted men so that all his disciples can have the same line of thought {John 17:20-23 compare to 1Corinthans 1:10} and in the first century all his disciples everywhere submitted to the teachings of these few selected men {Act 2:42} this helped them to agree on doctrine as they will always send members to go and ask for what these selected men would say on every matter! Act 15:1-2

So let's focus on what Jesus said about how to distinguish between the true and false teachers ! Matthew 7:15-20

Are you ready?🙂

I know you always complain when I give 2 responses but don't worry it is for the best. I have spent a good number of years discussing with you so can call myself a bit of an expert in knowing the fruits of the JW.
Before meeting you, I deeply respected the organization. I had many close JW friends. I have been to their services severally.
I didn't agree with some of their teachings but I felt that on the average, the JW was a good a just organization that ultimately drew men closer to God.

Then I met you and I discovered it was much deeper and darker than I knew. The JW as an organization will at first present itself as an angel of light but it is very far from that.
The organization actually doesn't believe the word of God.
They only depend on what their leaders say. They will use the bible as a debating tool until it no longer favors them.
They actually teach hate yet they pretend not to hate. How do I know? I have seen how they treat ex member and anyone that disagrees with them. They even have fancy names for those that don't buy into their doctrines.
The entire organization is a shame and a sham.

No

MaxInDHouse:
To avoid contradictions among his followers Jesus handed over the teaching of his group to a group of trusted men so that all his disciples can have the same line of thought {John 17:20-23 compare to 1Corinthans 1:10} and in the first century all his disciples everywhere subjected to the teachings of these few selected men {Act 2:42} this helped them to agree on doctrine as they will always send members to go and ask for what these selected men would say on every matter! Act 15:1-2

So let's focus on what Jesus said about how to distinguish between the true and false teachers ! Matthew 7:15-20

Are you ready?🙂

Yes Jesus Christ handed over his ministry to his apostles and we know what the apostles and early disciples of Jesus Christ taught because it is recorded in the bible.
And yes from the verses you mentioned, I have from day one focused on your fruits and I see that they are poison.
How do I know? Because they are contrary to the word of God.
You are the very people we are warned against in Matthew 7:15-20

MaxInDHouse:
I use the Bible so how do you use the Bible?

Good i like where this is going. So we both agree that we should depend on the content of the bible band not guesswork or the opinion of a select white people.
So for example What does the bible teach about life after death?

MaxInDHouse:
How do you distinguish between a true and false teacher?

I use the bible. Now over to you, how do you distinguish?

Flangelo12:
The man has the vocabulary of a secondary school dropout.

You mean Tinubu right?
Any way, to me it is childish to judge a man by the big vocabulary he speaks. I used to do that when I was a kid but now I have grown to see how foolish I was.

MaxInDHouse:
Correction from someone who doesn't welcome anyone as teacher!

You got it all wrong. I love listening and learning but once I figure out that you are a false teacher, I can't accept your poison

Flangelo12:
Same they did with Nursing.

Trump no kuku go school.

You think everyone is Buhari or Tinubu

MaxInDHouse:
And are you the wise one who should correct everyone?

You have said it yourself. So do not be a foolish one that refuses correction.

Dtruthspeaker:
Don't be angry. Talking about the same thing is not saying that 2 things are not the same.

And that is I specifically asked
whether Genesis 6:3 and John 1:4 "yes, they are the same" or *no, they are not the same." which I believe it is easier to say than all of these grammar you are saying.

So, please is Genesis 6:3 and John 1:4 the same or *no, they are not the same?

I see you are just hear to waste your time. Someone tells you,
There is zero link between the two, and this means that the two are not in any way talking about the same thing, but you still can't see the answer to your question. Some people need help. If you were a computer, you would be Pentium 1

Dtruthspeaker:
Let's sort out the entanglement since you want to pretend as if you do not see that they are the same.

So, first do you say that Genesis 6:3 and John 1:4 are not the same?

Please answer, specifically whether yes, they are the same or no, they are not the same.

Then, I would know what to do

Oga can't you read?
In my last post, I said There is zero link between the two.
This means that the two are not in anyway talking about the same thing.
So why are you asking the same question again and again.
I even went ahead to copy and paste the verses to show you that they are not even close.
Now can you please provide answers for all the questions I asked?

blueAgent:
https://www.nairaland.com/5667107/why-there-resurrection


https://www.nairaland.com/5704487/what-goes-heaven-hell-it

I only read the first and I agree

blueAgent:
Resurrection is defined as the raising of dead back to life .
The resurrection of the dead is paramount and central to Christ teachings and God's plan for Man's salvation.
When Adam and Eve sinned against God, they brought death upon humanity( for the wages of sin is death) Christ by his death has earned us eternal life which necessicitate or require the resurrection.
IMPORTANTANCE OF THE RESSURECTION.
1. It is the hope of the saints and believers.
Paul taught the early christains that our faith and believe in Christ would be in vain if there was no hope of resurrection. This raises a valid question if the saints are in Heaven as soon as they die why do we then hope for the resurrection.
The truth is that  there is no reward in death, the dead in Christ are asleep they are not in Heaven or conscious or alive in any way but are totally asleep just as the Bible says. Psalm104:29,psalm146:4,Eccl9:5-6,Job14:12.

In Paul's words if our hope in this life is only in Christ without the hope of resurrection which only Christ can give then we are of all men most miserable 1cor15:29-end,Acts 2:26.


2.The reward for believers: Christ promised to raise those who believe in him on the last day, so resurrection is the reward of the believers john6:40.

3.A point of physical transformation:God would not permit us to enter Heaven with our tinted and weak bodies (human nature).
God has promised the saints that they will receive incorruptible body and nature at the resurrection.the resurrected saints will be like Christ. David look forth to this day as he wrote in Psalms 17:15,1cor 15:1-end.

4. A point of punishment for the unbeliever's: People have been erroneously taught that the soul and spirits of the unjust is cast into Hell, this is unbibilcal.If the soul or spirit of the dead is what is punished in Hell then there would have not be need for the resurrection of the unjust, the Bible is clear  on this subject, the just and unjust will be resurrected judged and rewarded according to their works.
The unjust body will be cast into the lake of  fire the whole body will be destroyed or killed the 2nd time the Bible calls this the second death.Jesus taught his disciples on this.Rev20:12,john5:28, Dan 12:2,Nahum 1:9-10.


5.Resurrection is a sign of Christ victory over sin and death.

6.Resurrection is part of God's plan for salvation of man this was made manifest through Christ's death and resurrection,1Corinthians15:23-26,Luke20:35-38,John6:54.

7.Resurrection is a consequences of Man's fall that brought death and Christ sacrifice that brought eternal life, hence the  resurrection 1cor25:22, 2cor15:42.

8.Resurrection is a mark or seal to distinguish the just and the unjust,
The Bible states that their will be two resurrection. The first  resurrection which is the resurrection of the just and the second which occurs 1000yrs after the first and is called the resurrection of the unjust. Rev20:4-7,Rev20:12-15, john5:28-29.

In Conclusion.
As we have seen and learnt the resurrection is central to God's plan for  man's redemption, without the resurrection our faith is in vain  and as Apostle Paul puts it  we are of all men most miserable.
Thank God for his wonderful plan and Jesus who made it possible through his death and victory.
To God be all glory and honour.

Thank you for reading.

I agree