₦airaland Forum

Barristter07:
Hello boss, I followed your discussion and I must commend your beautiful heart . Mind you, I will advise that you take a careful look at the statement below, it might correspond to your view . Note that some members might take things too far ON THEIR OWN, but Jehovah's witnesses still remember the below


" 5, 6. (a) As regards persons who have been disfellowshiped, what wrong attitude do Christian elders and congregation members need to avoid? (b) Illustrate this.

5 Congregational elders, as well as individual members of a congregation, therefore, ought to guard against developing an attitude approaching that which some Jewish rabbinical writers fomented toward Gentiles in viewing them as virtual enemies . It is right to hate the wrong committed by the disfellowshiped one, but it is not right to hate the person nor is it right to treat such ones in an inhumane way. "

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1974565

MaxInDHouse:
Well it's obvious you don't know what you're saying, but i'll help you out!

For a teacher to say "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me, now go out there and make all people my disciples" Matthew 28:18-19
It simply means if you're truly a disciple of that teacher there is nobody as in NOBODY on this planet who can TEACH you anything better! Isaiah 54:17
So my friend if they can't find any group of people performing better than JWs, it simply means JWs are the real followers of Christ who will be the light of the world and city situated on the mountain top! Matthew 5:13-16

May you have PEACE!
Every fanatic feels the same about his religion. Humans are the same. Religion doesn't change us.
You have spoken like a true fanatic would speak for any religion. 'Everyone is bad except me.'

ichuka:
dude go and read/study Romans13
Christ upheld all the laws in His time.
that's the only reason He was even qualified to dead for us.
you don't break an established law of a community because you want to preach the gospel. your preaching will only end in tears.

Kobojunkie:
I don't even know if John wrote those words as some of us like to beli
Yes, those words first recorded in the minds of men, eventually penned by men, and transliterated several times over last 2 milennia in the language of men, to be read, processed and comprehended by human minds - it is clear that there is no step that man was not involved in. But still we know that God still rules over the hearts of all men, and His Will is accomplished even in a world ruled by evil men. Something to ponder!

MaxInDHouse:
When i grasp the illustration of a lost sheep, i began searching for a better performing group than JWs. My intention was to find any religion with the same standard but where members won't be asked to go out with bags and preach.
Well i later discovered there's no religious group in the entire universe that's performing better than JWs.
I'm ready to prove this anytime, anywhere and before anybody!
You asked me a question "if you find something BETTER will you leave your (present) religion?"
Well that's exactly what i've been asking all religionists, perhaps i will find something better but instead they're just saying "leave JWs" for which one nah?
NO further response!

Kobojunkie:
I am definitely not the one who is confused here since I have maintained the same throughout even this conversation of ours.
Like I said, don't worry if you are unable to wrap your mind around what I have been saying so far...I am reminded of what Jesus Christ said. He said He came that those who are blind may see. In this particular instance, Jesus Christ was not referring to those who were literally blind but those who knew that what they had had were lies and hungered instead for the truth to be revealed to them. An interesting conversation ensued between Jesus Christ and the Pharisees even then, to which Jesus revealed that only those who know they are blind will see... Those who are comfortable with their lies, in that example, the Pharisees, believe they already see and so remain blind. ... Just something to think of.

MaxInDHouse:
I left Islam for Jehovah's Witnesses Sir!

sapphiere:
Makes sense to some extend

Kobojunkie:
I already explained myself several times on this to you and told you not worry about it. It took me time to properly process a lot of these myself and it wasn't until I disconnected from it all that God Himself showed up.

MaxInDHouse:
The sheep is a domestic animal that's always scared of loneliness, it always move with it's kind, it's solely dependent on a guide (shepherd) or a trained sheep, the sheep is selective while choosing playmates.
A lost sheep of the house of Israel means someone having such attitude towards worship, they're humble and willing to accept guidance when it comes to how they can worship God acceptably. So whenever they come in contact with any religionist they want to know if such a person is walking on a better path than them. If they find out that you know better than they do they will be ready to switch over to, they just want to be in the midst of fellow believers, without such gathering the sheep will feel lost!

Kobojunkie:
I see that you are still having a hard time wrapping your mind around this one. Just keep pondering these thing..it will eventually begin to form in your mind.

Did you know that in the Old Testament, God announced that no longer will a man have to teach His neighbour about God...instead, He God will teach His people about Himself and He will write His commandment on their hearts. Then when Jesus Christ arrived, He affirmed this by stating unequivocally that He and He alone is the only Teacher to all those who follow Him..warning His followers never to set themselves up as Teachers, Masters or Authorities over any of His sheep. And when Jesus Christ was ready to leave the world, He handed the baton over to the Spirit of God saying He, the Spirit of Truth( that lived in Him) would continue His work and in His stead, still as the one and only in the lives of those who belong to Him, Jesus Christ. Something to think about.

Kobojunkie:
I know it is hard to wrap one's mind around these things...but if you continue to question it all, I think you are headed in the right direction as far as finding God Himself throughgh all of muck.

Another interesting thing to note, God said,"cursed is any man who puts his trust in another man....". Basically anyone who trusts in the words of men is cursed.. But those who put there trust(obviously 100% of it in God alone), is not cursed at all.

MaxInDHouse:
You're right!
He sent us out as FISHERS OF MEN {Matthew 4:19} but he sent us out in search for the lost sheep of the house of Israel {Matthew 10:6} this means it's not all kinds of people that's worthy of our message {Matthew 7:6} that's why we use discernment to know if you're asking with sincerity or just trying to argue {Titus 3:9} if we notice that you're sincere in your quest we must not leave but stay to answer all your questions {Matthew 10:13} in that case we won't need to start going from house to house when we've found an interested person {Luke 10:7} that's the time to answer all your questions with mild temper and deep respect {1Peter 3:15} but once we can discern that you're just trying to criticize we quickly take our leave! Matthew 10:14

Thanks Sir!

Kobojunkie:
I remember that I already told you before now that I am not suspicious of man. God is True...His word is Truth. Every other is a lie.

Did you know that in both the old and new Covenants, there exists statutes that stipulate that there needs to be an account from 2 of 3 witnesses to corroborate the words/claims of men? Of course, it does no establish the claim as Truth but simply allows it to become admissible in God's court. That statute however did not apply at all to the messages of God as delivered to the people through in the Old Testament, and it certainly did not apply to Jesus Christ or the Spirit of God. Just something to know is all...

divinecode101:
Will.you Sharap there and stop spewing rvbbish

MaxInDHouse:
You're right!
He sent us out as FISHERS OF MEN {Matthew 4:19} but he sent us out in search for the lost sheep of the house of Israel {Matthew 10:6} this means it's not all kinds of people that's worthy of our message {Matthew 7:6} that's why we use discernment to know if you're asking with sincerity or just trying to argue {Titus 3:9} if we notice that you're sincere in your quest we must not leave but stay to answer all your questions {Matthew 10:13} in that case we won't need to start going from house to house when we've found an interested person {Luke 10:7} that's the time to answer all your questions with mild temper and deep respect {1Peter 3:15} but once we can discern that you're just trying to criticize we quickly take our leave! Matthew 10:14

Thanks Sir!

Kobojunkie:
I don't believe in scripture?.. I instead believe in the word of God(the very words out of God's mouth) that is recorded in Scripture.

Let me try this....Scripture contains the words of men, opinions of men, and also the word of God. Now of all of that, the only Truth stored in scripture is the word of God(words spoken by God Himself) for only God's word can be verified...the men whose words and opinions are also written of in scripture are long dead and unable to verify the claims made of them.

Marvellously2Me:
Proverbs 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.. No broken anus, all was just to gain undeserved emotional sympathy and publicity

Modified

According to the medical report there was no evidence of sexual abuse, the child only malaria

MaxInDHouse:
That's what most of you don't know!

Our God differ from yours, otherwise there won't be all these endless arguments. So since you know now go out there and FISH for worshipers while we go out to do our own business as well.
There is freedom of speech expression and worship today, the judgment is in God's hands! Revelations 22:11

MaxInDHouse:
Well keep applying it the best way you know Sir while JWs apply it the best way we know , i hope you know that our own God differs from yours so it's not the same spirit that's interpreting the word, no wahala!

Kobojunkie:
I don't in believe His Prophets... I instead believe in the words out of God's own mouth.

MaxInDHouse:
Should i conclude that this is your PRACTICAL APPLICATION of those two Bible verses or you're just trying to carry emotions along with laid down principles?

Well let me quench your spiritual thirst!

Imagine how the world will be if we're not killing any wrongdoer but ostracizing them in our society, the world agreed to build prison yards for a reason, it's to keep criminals is a dungeon away from law abiding citizens so that they will not infect our children with their evil mindsets and secondly to make them realise that their attitude makes them like lepers. In ancient Israel lepers are to leave the premises of the clean people so as not to infect them. Spiritually speaking unrepentant wrongdoers are just like those lepers they're not to be found anywhere close to clean people.

God set this standard and it was part of God's law. Jesus specifically chose Paul as the Apostle that will interpret what the laws of the former covenant means in Christianity. That's why Paul wrote lots and lots of letters to so many people from different races, cultures and background on how to practice Christianity without throwing away their cultures that doesn't contradict God's standard.

You have been misinformed completely about the proceedings for disfellowshiping a former member of the Christian congregation. There are two decisions to be taken depending on the attitude of the wrongdoer.

We all vowed to live by Christian standards but due to imperfection we make mistakes so all we need then is to be readjusted back to order. In such a case the wrongdoer is called upon by the elders of the Christian congregation to know what he thinks about his misconduct {2Samuel 12:1} note how Nathan rebuked King David, he presented his own wrongdoings before him and asked him to judge, unknowingly David ruled against himself {2Samuel 12:2-6} immediately Nathan declared to David saying "you are the criminal". Please take note of what David said next "I have sinned against Jehovah" {2Samuel 12:13} according to God's law David supposed to be stoned to death for snatching another man's wife [1] and for killing an innocent soul [2]

So what was JEHOVAH'S judgment?

Note that JEHOVAH first told David what he has concluded to do,
[1] The baby born through that means will die despite how David cherish having children he submitted to God's judicial decision.
[2] Another man will do the same thing to David (not secretly the way David did) but in the face of all Israel.
[3] David's children will kill themselves!

David didn't protest saying NO! his humble response is "I have sinned against Jehovah". So instantly JEHOVAH said "you've been forgiven" but the sinner (David) will not go unpunished!

That's exactly what is happening amongst JWs today! If any of us goes contrary to laid down principles of the organization such a person will be called upon to know how he/she feels towards the wrongdoing, are you ready to admit your wrongdoing? If so then appropriate measures will be taken to help you while you're under reproof secretly (just as JEHOVAH secretly reproved David) but if you want to justify your wrongdoing then it means you're no more willing to live by your vows so JWs will declare to all members "A or B is no more one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES" of course he/she knows what that means before then! 1Corinthians 5:12-13; 2John 9-11

Kobojunkie:
But I don't know of any dubious men in these...all I know is that - God is True and man a liar.

Now realize tha God Himself responds when you approach Him according to His truth. This is no religion like many have out there.. No indeed, God Himself shows up when you obey His very word as instructed.

Kobojunkie:
I understand how you have a hard time wrapping your mind around this but God Himself said it through His prophets, and Jesus Christ repeated the very same..that He and He alone will be the only Teacher to those who are His followers...they live in obedience to His commandments, worshipping Him in truth and in spirit.

Those who have men as their teachers..well...

achorladey:
Let me key this SCRIPTURE below with the above you expressed.

2 Thessalonians 5: 13.

For your part, brothers, do not give up in doing good. 14 But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked and stop associating with him, so that he may become ashamed. 15 And yet do not consider him an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.


The instruction given was to stop ASSOCIATING but not to consider that person as an ENEMY.

How does God wants us to treat ENEMIES as captured in the Matthew 5:44 you cited? Pray for them do good to them that was what Jesus said.

Since that's the way we should treat a person considered as ENEMY how much more someone Paul said DO NOT CONSIDER THEM AS AN ENEMY

How did Paul himself said we should treat ENEMIES

Romans 12: 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.

How should we then treat someone that is to be ADMONISHED continuously as a brother?

Kobojunkie:
You don't put your trust in men...but in God. Cursed is anyone who puts his trust in man...rememeber? Instead you trust God that even though His words were passed through the mouths of prophets(men) to us in the old testament, and eventually through Jesus Christ Himself, penned down by human hands and handled in a human world, God remains God and the power that is His word retains its truthiness through it all.... I.e. God is God all by Himself!

achorladey:
I am still wondering the essence of Max point about you being BIASED.

Take your time to find out more about their disfellowshipping and disassociation palaver.

Kobojunkie:
I didn't refuse to answer your questions. I made it clear that the Truth of God is found in the very words of Jesus Christ Himself...Not that of another. That you are having a difficult time wrapping your mind around that is no fault of mine.