₦airaland Forum

Janosky:
John 17:3 and John 3:16... Jesus was sent.. .
Jehovah the Saviour of Israel,Isaiah 43:11 made his son a saviour.
Jehovah made Othniel a saviour.
Bros, is Othniel Jehovah?

So you agree that there is more than 1 saviour even when the bible speaks of only one savior but you find it hard to believe Jesus Christ is a true God?

haddeylium:
Jehovah said he made Pharaoh a God (Ex 7:1).
Also, He also served as a God (Ex 4:16).

Begs the question; Was Moses made a false God or Did he serve as false God?

Moses was not made a God, he was made as a god.

Janosky:
Bros, you agreed Jesus Christ has a Father.
John 17:1-3. The Father is the true God, the Father is the Most High God..

Psalms 83:18 Jehovah is the Most High God.
Jesus Christ is NOT Jehovah.

Jesus having a father does not mean he name is not Jehovah. Pls explain your logic here

Janosky:
Did Jehovah receive power from whom?
Jehovah received authority from whom?

Isaiah 43.11
I—I am Jehovah,+ and besides me there is no savior.
Is Jesus Christ not the Savior?
John 17.3 Says there is one true God. Isaiah says one savior.
What does that tell you about Jesus Christ

Janosky:
The term "false God" is of your own creation.
Exodus 12:12, 1 Corinthians 8:5, Jehovah recognize there are gods (whether you capitalize it or not, Theo's is theo's, Elohim is elohim.
There is no upper case /Lower case dichotomy in greek or Hebrew.).
There is only one true God. He is not Jesus Christ.
John 17:3, Jesus said so.

You pointed me to John 17.3 telling me that there is just one true god. Now I asked you if Jesus Christ is a true God or a false God or maybe somewhere in the middle. Please educatel us

Janosky:
Did Jehovah receive power from whom?
Jehovah received authority from whom?

I need to understand your point sir are you saying Jesus Christ is a true God or a false god?

haddeylium:
compare that part to your KJV
So, Was Moses made as false God?

Oga don't call it my kjv. I have no version . I did not write any. But I am still not getting your point. Are you calling Moses a god?

Janosky:
John 10:34-36 & John 20:17, is Jesus a god ?

The true God is the Father of all, Ephesians 4:6.
"The one to whom every family in heaven and earth owes their name", Ephesians 3:14-15.
Bros, is that Jesus?

Does this make Jesus a false God?
Don't forget that all that the father has, he gave to his son.

Janosky:
According to your Bible, John 17:3 who was sent?
Was the true God sent ?
Who sent the true God?

Your point is that Jesus Christ is a false God?
You seem not to like to state your point clearly

haddeylium:
Exodus 7:1(ASV)
And Jehovah said unto Moses, See, I have made thee as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Seems you're using KJV currently.
Anywhere you see LORD (capital letters), it was substituted for JEHOVAH.
So, did Jehovah make Moses a false God?

Even in the version you quoted, Moses was made as God to pharaoh he was not made a God. But what's your point with this Moses god theory. And I read from the NKJV but funny many of you guys on this thread are not comfortable with kjv.

haddeylium:
Jehovah made Moses a God (Ex 7:1)
But, only Jehovah is referred to as the 'Only true God'(John 17:3)
Is Moses a False God?

The false God is obviously a notion of your own creation. But Yea it's a brilliant way of thinking.
And Jesus did not make Moses a God in Ex7.1 he made him like God big difference.

haddeylium:
When I said the original writings. I'm only making reference to the ancient copies and Bible manuscripts.

I would advice you to extend your research.
God preserve his word by using a class COYPIST or scribes (Ezra 7:6). So, they're numerous copies of the Hebrew and Greek' scriptures.
But that's not the discuss..

I'm only referencing the Proverb 8:30 that have been corrected in the newer version after scholars realized the error they made after comparing with the numerous older manuscript they found !

Check the picture I attached from Biblehub
what do you think of those numerous translation?

Do you have any of the works of the copyist? If you do please send me references. I don't mind buying it

Janosky:
Bros, the holy Scriptures have spoken.
John 17:3 Jesus Christ is NOT the true God.
John 17:6,26 , you don't know Jesus Christ.
Or his Father.

So Jesus is a false God? Please what do you mean when you say True God?
Reading your scriptures and asking questions not just accepting what you have been taught could go a long way

Now you claim Jesus Christ did not create the world he was just a link, could you please explain the role of a link. Honestly I don't get that.
NOwen if you read all the scriptures I put up, you would have learnt that I did not only discuss Christ's role as creator but also as Savior of the world. And as king.
Jehovah was king of Israel remember? Who was the king of the Jews in the new testament?
Or maybe Israel had 2 kings, one for the old and one for the new?
Or better still let me ask you, who is the king of Israel, Jesus Christ or Jehovah?

I urge to read all my post so we don't remain at a stop.
When it comes to the creation, our disagreement is simple based on the way we interprete certain things.

DappaD:
The word ‘by’ is polysemic I don’t believe I have to teach you that. Go look up the Merriam-Webster’s dictionary.

Trust me I don't know the meaning of polysemic. You would do better if you explain your words. Not all of us are as educated and remember this is a forum it's not just about you and I

DappaD:
While you’re at it, you might want to look up the meaning of ‘BY’ in the Webster’s dictionary. The synonym for ‘by’ is ‘through’ and used as an operator word in the context of Colossians 1:16,17 indicates an agency through which something is achieved.

Hence, Colossians 1:17 would read
“God’s Son was before all else, and BY[THROUGH] him everything is held together.”—CEV

In fact, coming down to the rudimentary Greek words, δι means ‘through’ and με means ‘by’[remember the word is polysemic] but the former is what appears in Colossians 1:17 which means that on account of Jesus Christ, the other things(invisible and visible) came into existence. Period.

I see how crafty you’re being by ignoring 1Corinthians 8:6 but it’s fine. Guess that’s a hard nut to crack for you.

I have read all the verses you presented. And all add to the fact that Jesus Christ is the creator.
1cor8.6
yet (A)for us there is one God, the Father, (B)of whom are all things, and we for Him; and (C)one Lord Jesus Christ, (D)through whom are all things, and (E)through whom we live.
And this is supposed to be that powerful scripture that says Jesus Christ did not create the world.
Please sir when you bring up a scripture please explain it so we understand you better

DappaD:
The word ‘by’ is polysemic I don’t believe I have to teach you that. Go look up the Merriam-Webster’s dictionary.

What's your point.

And please stop quoting the words of the wicked Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4.30 as if it is the word of God.

It's just like saying all matter consist of matter. It means you and I and made from Christ
For by him were all things created.
When you say something was created by somebody, I am sure you know what it means. And I am using your favorite NKJV

DappaD:
Jesus Christ was only the LINK through which other things invisible and visible were created. 1Corinthians 8:6 indicates the true SOURCE of creation and it's not Jesus.

Link! Your bible reveals that all things consist of him.
Now I just checked the dictionary. The word consist means all things are made up of him. Sir thar isn't the definition of a link or just a link as you call it.
Sir if a kid asked you to explain what the Bible meant by "in him, all things consist." How would you explain this to a kid

DappaD:
The Julius Berger company were merely the craftsmen and contractors hired for the work. I am the one who built the house alone. Nobody assisted me. Period
Again, make your reference to Daniel 4:30 & 1Corinthians 8:6
You seem to be turning a blind eye to it. How clever of you.

My point is first the world's of the king of Babylon is not holy scripture second the bible was clear in telling us that Christ created the world. Without him was nothing made that was made.
Using the julius berger example, true it's a project of the federal government but it would read, constructed by julius berger. I am sure you know this

DappaD:
Go and read 1Corinthians 8:6 I’m not the one who put it in your Bible. That’s the only way you can really understand Colossians 1:16



You’re bringing another scenario here when Daniel 4:30 is still waiting for you.
Calm down and reason what you’re saying first. So if I’m discussing with one of my relatives and the said house comes up, would I say something like:
“The house I built at so-so-and-so area” or would I bring up the hired contractors into the discussion?

Have you ever seen the marble board of a complete project? It would always read constructed by julius berger not constructed by federal government

haddeylium:
Seems you're a KJV loyalist.
I don't think it's needed to bring to your attention that the Bible is not originally written in English. KJV is just one out of many Translations available.

No Bible is 100% accurate in his translation.
Some engaged in biased translation and dubiously insert verses. Error crept in some.
Some older Translations have limited access to the original writings.

Today, There are more than 6000 known manuscripts in part or whole which scholars or individuals can compare alongside to detect errors and eliminate them.

I would recommend you always go back to the original writings to solidify your studying and teaching and change your teaching to what God really teaching and not to the error imperfect translator made.

First I have so far quoted from 4 different versions including your prefered version.
Secondly no one has the original writings of the bible. Unless you know where they are secretly kept. The original copies of the apostles writings no longer exist talk less of the older records from the old testament. Unless you are talking of the dead Sea scrolls. And that isn't really the bible
Next it's of no use advising me to go back to the original writings since I can only read english.

Hence this world and everything in it including you was constructed or better still created by Christ. Without him was nothing made that was made.
Same way his father sent him to save the world, that was the very same way he created it.

[quote author=DappaD post=97993433]1Corinthians 8:6

“Yet for us there is a. one God, the Father, FROM whom are all things and for whom we exist, AND b. one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH whom are all things and through whom we exist.”

Need I explain more about the differences between a and b or can you draw your own conclusions now?

[

Col1.16 For (A)by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or (B)dominions or [a]principalities or [b]powers. All things were created (C)through Him and for Him.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 (H)In Him was life, and (I)the life was the light of men
Even reading your preferred version of the creation still name Christ as the creator.
Now let's see if we all are understanding the same Grammer here.
Let's crate a scenario. Imagine you want to build your house. But then you have someone who is an architects and builder. Let's say a julius berger. So julius berger does everything for you. Ever material consist or came from julius berger.
True it's your house but who built it.
It would read constructed julius berger. Not so?

MaxInDHouse:
Continue your message, your fellow brethren are following. Thanks for your time Sir!

Smart move bro. But honestly I would have loved your brilliant contributions.

haddeylium:
Check the NKJV
That older dubious translation has been corrected

Lol. No problem but just for notes, the new king James was first published in 1979. The Christian world prior to it must have been in darkness. That is, if it's the authentic translation. Or what do you think? Meaning the correct translation of the bible is just 40 years old while Christianity as we know it is over 2000 years.Hmmm

I am still waiting for you to tell me the bible version to switch to sir

DappaD:
Compare the highlighted to 1Corinthians 8:6 PLEASE.

But I have and I don't see the link you are trying to create. Please educate me.
John came to represent God, while Jesus was with God and all things came into existence through him.

DappaD:
Drop your KJV and make use of other sound translations already.

That's so unfair.. I have made reference to 3 different bible versions. I did not write any neither did you. But just for asking which version would you prefer I use. Let's use your own version from now on?

DappaD:
Compare the highlighted to 1Corinthians 8:6 PLEASE.

1 Corinthians 8.6 6 There came a man who was sent as a representative of God; his name was John. How does it compare

DappaD:
Up until now, Daniel 4:30 seems to be freaking you out as it completely ruled out the earlier claim of the Creatorship being ascribed primarily to Jesus.
Proverbs 8:30 calls Jesus a “master worker” because it was him whom God was talking to at Genesis 1:26.

More so, that’s the reason why 1Corinthians 8:6 explains God as being the source of creation and Jesus being the link/channel. Colossians 1:16 is trying to tell you that Jesus was the one THROUGH which all things were made(John 1:3), while Jehovah is the one FROM which all things were made. Romans 11:36

It’s the same with Nebuchadnezzar. He hired several workers to build his empire yet at the end of the day, only him took the full credit because he was the mastermind behind it. Daniel 4:30

Proverbs 8.30 says no such thing in my own bible and as for Genesis 1.26 again you are speculating. Your bible did not teach you that it was Jesus Christ being referred to
How you came about that is a total mystery