₦airaland Forum

DappaD:
Up until now, Daniel 4:30 seems to be freaking you out as it completely ruled out the earlier claim of the Creatorship being ascribed primarily to Jesus.
Proverbs 8:30 calls Jesus a “master worker” because it was him whom God was talking to at Genesis 1:26.

More so, that’s the reason why 1Corinthians 8:6 explains God as being the source of creation and Jesus being the link/channel. Colossians 1:16 is trying to tell you that Jesus was the one THROUGH which all things were made(John 1:3), while Jehovah is the one FROM which all things were made. Romans 11:36

It’s the same with Nebuchadnezzar. He hired several workers to build his empire yet at the end of the day, only him took the full credit because he was the mastermind behind it. Daniel 4:30

Daniel 4.30 The king was saying: “Is this not Babylon the Great that I myself have built for the royal house by my own strength and might and for the glory of my majesty.
In this verse, we learn that the king built the city right? Now this is the very same way John tells us that Jesus Christ is creator
John 1.1-4
In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.*+ 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
What has come into existence 4 by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men.
If you believe Daniel 4.30 then you should also believe John1.1-4

MaxInDHouse:
TRINITY at WORK so there's no need disturbing him!
He's expressing his own PERSONAL opinion on Trinity therefore it's better to allow him do his thing!

Trinity is another topic for another day. Today we are discovering that Jesus Christ is Jehovah.
Next time we could look into Trinity.

DappaD:
Tcwork, if you’re feeling unwell and your distant uncle in his 80’s perhaps, sent his son to give you food & medicinal supplies, who would you owe your gratitude to? Surely you would appreciate the one your uncle used as a messenger but your indebtedness would be to your uncle alone .

That’s exactly the same case with John 3:16
Due to the undeserved kindness of Jehovah, he sent his Son to give his life as a ransom in exchange for ours so that we might be set free from slavery to sin and death in order for we to have everlasting life. Matthew 20:28, Romans 3:24
Surely, we appreciate what Jesus did as the “corresponding ransom”(1Timothy 2:6) but our wholehearted devotion, worship and gratitude MUST go to the One who initiated it in the first place—Jehovah God. Exodus 34:14, Ephesians 5:20

You obviously don't get the point. The bible especially the new testament gave gratitude and attributed creation to Christ.
I am not the one giving such position to Christ. It was the bible that gave him the recognition as creator and Saviour.
It was he that felt the pains for your sins
If you are feeling unwell and you uncle tells his son who is a doctor to treat you and your doctor cousin treats you at his own cost, who would you attribute the treatment to?

DappaD:
I only showed you a correlation to a similar claim Nebuchadnezzar also made and you’re saying it’s a different thing. Let us all agree it was only Nebuchadnezzar who built his empire by his power and strength and we’ll call it a day .

colossians 1.16 revelations 4.11

DappaD:
I only showed you a correlation to a similar claim Nebuchadnezzar also made and you’re saying it’s a different thing. Let us all agree it was only Nebuchadnezzar who built his empire by his power and strength and we’ll call it a day .

Its different because in the case of Christ, he was the only one that paid for our sins. At that moment, even the Father abandoned him.
He was also the one that created all things according to your bible.
He was not just a part of a team. He was the One

MaxInDHouse:
I think we need to use illustration to make this clearer!

I am a soldier, whatever i do with the uniform on its the entire army that will be held responsible not just me. WHY? Because i was given that uniform to represent the Nigerian Army everywhere i go!

Now do you still remember the End Sarz issue?

Buhari's name was all over the place whereas Buhari is not the one carrying guns o, because he is the commander in chief of all the Arm forces!

So where that angel is standing, it's believed that JEHOVAH is the one standing there, note that it was God's angel that's displaying himself in the thornbush {Exodus 3:2} but whose voice did Moses heard? Exodus 3:4

Brilliant illustration but still a personal believe not necessarily expressed in the bible

I guess the King James Version of the bible gives the best explanation to Exodus 6.3
Exodus 6.3 (KJV)
and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
This very easily clears it all up

DappaD:
Are you being serious right now? If you are, was King Nebuchadnezzar correct when he said:

“Is this not Babylon the Great that I myself have built for the royal house by my own strength and might and for the glory of my majesty?” Daniel 4:30

Please was it the king of Babylon that built the whole empire by himself or did he have hired slaves and workers to do that?
The Bible is clear that Jesus Christ was indeed the firstborn of God's creation and he was alongside God during creation as a “master worker” Proverbs 8:30 see also Genesis 1:26

But if we’re to attribute Creatorship to anybody, it goes to Jehovah alone. Nehemiah 9:6

Now we are saying different things all together. It was the bible that attributeday creator to Jesus Christ not me. And my point is Jesus Christ is that Jehovah the creator.
And please sir don't be taking it personal. You don't need to ask if I am serious just because you don't agree with me. I

Now for those just joining the thread, let me summarize my point.
The purpose of the new testament was to lead men to Christ.
The purpose of the old testament was to lead men to Jehovah.
Now remember, no man comes to God except through Christ.
Hence the both the old and new testament where all about the same person, Christ or Jehovah

[quote author=DappaD post=97986606]It seems I’m late to the discussion. Are you saying that in Jesus’ case, the above claim wasn't CLEARLY shown? If so, what does John 16:27 have to say on the matter? Because from all indications, the real meaning of the last part of that verse is that he came as his Father's

John 16.27 (KJV)
27for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God
This is an excellent scripture that tells us where Christ came from but I would love you to throw more light so we can understand you point sir

Now do I believe that God uses representatives?
The answer is yes and each time he does it is clearly shown.
But I have stated enough trends where Jesus Christ was fulfilling prophecies ascribed to Jehovah in the old testament.
And where he took up titles ascribed to Jehovah in the old testament.

MaxInDHouse:
Well God's presence is represented by the angel, that's the point Sir!

Boss
Exodus 13.21-22 clearly states God went before them now you are saying it was not God but an angel just because another verse indicates an angel was present.
I think we should stick to what was said rather than add personal dimensions to the story

Honestly, I wouldn't want to employ someone like you in position of authority.
An evil girl is destroying your brothers business but you feel less concern and you call it minding your business
As for what would be her fate, it's up to your brother to decide and not you.
When you have your own business and you employ a manager what would you expect him to do in such situation?

MaxInDHouse:
The Bible says it was an angel not JEHOVAH himself, unless we agree that JEHOVAH is an angel!
Exodus 14:19

Then the angel of the true God+ who was going ahead of the camp of Israel departed and went to their rear, and the pillar of cloud that was in front of them moved to the rear and stood behind

This does not in anyhow proof that the Lord was not there. This verse does not indicate that God was not there with them neither does it go against 1 corinthians 10.1-4
I never doubted that an angel of the Lord was present our argument was about the Lords very presence

MaxInDHouse:
Before we proceed, do you now agree that JEHOVAH never left his place to come down in person to rescued Israelites from slavery in Egypt?

I thought we both read that the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; and in 1Corinthians 10:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ”

Maybe if you can explain how This isn't God physically leading Israel then I would understand

Sometimes, it's easy to forget that Chist is the creator, the Savior and would be the judge and the purpose of the scriptures, both the old and new testament is to witness him and lead men unto him.
We have but one Savior. The old testament is not leading us to a different God from Jesus Christ.
Remember the name Jesus Christ was never mentioned in the old testament despite the fact that he was the main character of the book.
This was because he was known by the name Jehovah.
He took up Jesus as his earthly name. Or don't you think that he had a name before coming to earth?

We learn from the bible that it was Christ that all the prophets bore witness of
Acts 10.43 (KJV)
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Every single prophet in the bible witnessed for Christ

MaxInDHouse:
That's exactly what is found written in our book (Bible) but that's not JEHOVAH Sir!
Each time JEHOVAH promises to come in person he always sent a human representative that's visible to humans and a mighty spirit being to be working hand in hand with the human representative. So both of them are JEHOVAH'S representatives not JEHOVAH himself!
Note what Satan told Jesus about the angel that supposed to be working hand in hand with Jesus just as it was with Moses! Luke 4:9-11

For clarification please read the Bible book of Exodus 14:19, so was it JEHOVAH that came down as a spirit being or one of his angels?

I am not sure I understand some of your sentences here.
But then let me ask a few questions to be sure
1 Who created the world
2. Who is the Lord of the Sabbath
3. Who is the Savior
4. Who shall judge the world
5. Who is the King of Israel or does Israel have 2 kings?
A pattern is clear here, everything attributed to Jehovah in the old testament is attributed to Jesus Christ in the new testament.
The new and old testament are not leading men to different people.

MaxInDHouse:
He used a representative "Moses" and it was written in the prophecies that another prophet like Moses will rise among the Israelites {Deuteronomy 18:15-18} Peter clearly identified Jesus as this coming prophet who will be like Moses {Act 3:22} because when JEHOVAH said he is coming to deliver the Israelites Moses served as God and Prophet at the same time {Exodus 7:1} just as Jesus also served as God and Prophet {John 1:1} when God promised to visit Israel again! Malachi 3:1

So Moses served the same purpose as Jesus if we're to go by your analogy, God promised to come to Egypt and Moses served as his rep, God also promised to visit Israel and Jesus served as his rep. I hope you can see the similarities!

Well you make a lot of sense but in the case of Israel, Jehovah did physically guide them to the promise land
Exodus 13.21-22
Now Jehovah was going ahead of them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way,+ and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel by day and by night.+ 22 The pillar of cloud would not move away from before the people during the day, nor the pillar of fire at night.

MaxInDHouse:
This is highly commendable!
That means you realize that all the titles Lord and God appeared the same way in Hebrew, it's the translators that applied upper and lower case to the titles!
So can we say Moses is Jehovah?
Because Jehovah promised to go down as god to deliver his people from Egypt {Exodus 3:8} but the person everyone saw was MOSES! Exodus 7:1

But the bible teaches us that Jehovah actually did come down and led his people out of Egypt, I am sure you know this.

Further proof that Jesus Christ is Jehovah
In the book of Genesis after the creation Jehovah rested on the 7th day.
Genesis 2

2And by the seventh day, God had completed the work that he had been doing,* and he began to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had been doing.*+ 3 And God went on to bless the seventh day and to declare it sacred, for on it God has been resting from all the work that he has created, all that he purposed to make.
4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah* God made earth and heaven.

Again, we are reminded in Exodus 20
“8 Remember the Sabbath day to keep it sacred.+ 9 You are to labor and do all your work for six days,+ 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. You must not do any work, neither you nor your son nor your daughter nor your slave man nor your slave girl nor your domestic animal nor your foreign resident who is inside your settlements.*+ 11 For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and he began to rest on the seventh day.+ That is why Jehovah blessed the Sabbath day and made it sacred.

Here we learn 2 things about Jehovah. 1. He was the one that created the world.
2. He made and declared the sabath.
Now over to the new testament
Luke 6.5 Then he said to them: “The Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath
The new testament teaches that I was Christ that created the heavens and the earth and he is the Lord of the sabath. Not his father but him.
Who is Jehovah

Let's compare again
10. Declare among the nations: “Jehovah has become King!+
The earth* is firmly established, it cannot be moved.*
He will judge* the peoples fairly.”+
11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be joyful;
Let the sea thunder and all that fills it;+
12 Let the fields and everything in them rejoice.+
At the same time let all the trees of the forest shout joyfully+
13 Before Jehovah, for he is coming,*
He is coming to judge the earth.
He will judge the inhabited earth* with righteousness+
And the peoples with his faithfulness

Now whow is coming to Judge is it Christ or his father?

Matthew 25:31-32
"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

John 5:22
For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,

Jehovah is coming to judge the world, who is Jehovah

Janosky:
1 Corinthians 15:24-27 says,
Please dump your gospel into the dustbin.

1 Corinthians 15: 34-27
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
This is a wonderful scripture but you want to explain the relevance to our discussion?
I am not sure you even read any of the above scriptures I quoted and I am finding hard to understand your message.
Please can you clearly state your point?

Compare these scriptures
“I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction” (Hosea 13:14).

“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” (1 Corinthians 15:20–22.)

The old testament and the new testament were both speaking of the very same person.

MaxInDHouse:
Would you appreciate if someone help you out with this riddles or you're satisfied with what you're saying? Act 8:30-31
Because the Bible clearly revealed that there was TWO Lords in the Bible book of Psalms 110:1, one said to the other "sit at my right hand" according to the Bible one of those two is JEHOVAH. You can confirm this as you crosscheck the preface of your copy of the Bible.
Anywhere you find the LORD in capital all through it stands for the divine name YHWH or JHVH.

So if one of those two is JEHOVAH, then who is the person asked to sit at Jehovah's right hand?
Let that be your own personal research but let me provide some scriptural texts as part of your research tools
Act 2: 34-36; Act 7:56; Romans 8:34

God bless you!

Psalms 110.1 This depends on the translation
KJV Acts2:34-36 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
The decision to mark the lords name in capital was a choice of translator. All letters appear in uppercase in Hebrew, they had no lowercase

Jesus Christ is obviously God just like his father.
My point is, he is Jehovah not his father. That was why I made this thread

Organsmuggler:
i think one is even pregnant, aru!

Who made it Aru, you?

Janosky:
1 kings18:39 and John 17:3,

When all the people saw it, they immediately fell facedown and said: “Jehovah is the true God! Jehovah is the true God!”
John 17:3, Jesus says his Father, Jehovah is the only True God.

Bros, your claim is FALSE.
Kpele

I do not need you to believe me, only believe the scriptures

Luke 24:25-27
King James Version
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
The entire Old testament was about Christ. But when he came the Jews did not recognize him fromantic the scriptures.
Let me give you an example
The Jews will look upon Jehovah who was pierced.

“And I [Jehovah] will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn” (Zechariah 12:10).
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. … For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.” (John 19:34, 36–37.)

While speaking to the unbelieving Jews Jesus said John 5:39
King James Version
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
He was referring to the old testament. The old testament basically teaches about Christ.

Let's compare some more scripture
Jehovah is the Savior.

“Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me” (Hosea 13:4).

“For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord” (Luke 2:11).

Janosky:
1 kings18:39 and John 17:3,

When all the people saw it, they immediately fell facedown and said: “Jehovah is the true God! Jehovah is the true God!”
John 17:3, Jesus says his Father, Jehovah is the only True God.

Bros, your claim is FALSE.
Kpele

I made no claim I only pointed you to the scriptures. Is Jesus Christ a false god. He is the true God. Jesus Christ created the world and everything in it doesn't that qualify him to be the true God?