₦airaland Forum

Mr AntiChristian, Mr Lukuluku69
I have articulated the video for you here, what do you think?

The summary is this:
1. The Jews boast that they killed Isa the Son of Mary
2. Allah is saying that this is not true because
a. He was the one who caused it to be (if you like--through destiny) and as such, the Jews are only following the will of Allah (unknowingly)
b. Isa is with him Alive in Paradise.

The whole verse is to show that the Jews have no power to do other than what Allah has destined to be and that all their activities were preordained by Allah and not them.

This is consistent with:
Qur'an 3:55
Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ

and

Qur'an 19:33
There was peace on me the day I was born, and will be the day I die, and on the day I will be raised from the dead."


Of course, most of the scholars of Islam tries to misinterpret I shall cause thee to die, from Qur'an 3:55 as

1. O Jesus, I will take you to Myself
2. Lo! I am gathering thee
3. I will take thee
for the word mutawaffeeka (متوفيك) which means "cause to die"



This is the breakdown: that the Qur'an is NOT saying that Jesus did not die but the power of death and life is in the hands of Allah alone



Thanks!

honesttalk21:
@MightySparrow
Do you comprehend English?
Articulate his points, arguments and his conclusion so we can see how well they agree.

Is this difficult for you to understand or you don't want to analyse the folly in his argument as well as your own following of a faulty argument?

I have articulated the video for you!
Check!

MightySparrow:
Allah is the best of deceivers.

Even the Muslim scholars have learnt the art of deception from satan to the point that they are fully on autopilot!

honesttalk21:
Can you articulate the points David Wood made in this video?

The summary is this:
1. The Jews boast that they killed Isa the Son of Mary
2. Allah is saying that this is not true because
a. He was the one who caused it to be (if you like--through destiny) and as such, the Jews are only following the will of Allah (unknowingly)
b. Isa is with him Alive in Paradise.

The whole verse is to show that the Jews have no power to do other than what Allah has destined to be and that all their activities were preordained by Allah and not them.

This is consistent with:
Qur'an 3:55
Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ

and

Qur'an 19:33
There was peace on me the day I was born, and will be the day I die, and on the day I will be raised from the dead."


Of course, most of the scholars of Islam tries to misinterpret I shall cause thee to die, from Qur'an 3:55 as

1. O Jesus, I will take you to Myself
2. Lo! I am gathering thee
3. I will take thee
for the word mutawaffeeka (متوفيك) which means "cause to die"



This is the breakdown: that the Qur'an is NOT saying that Jesus did not die but the power of death and life is in the hands of Allah alone



Thanks!

honesttalk21:
Your wife's neck pain will be something else not directly related to the pregnancy. How about her back? Don't answet as that is your personal issue.

Whenever SirTee15 or SirTeee15 is able he may comment. I don't see any emergency. I don't know SirTee outside some discussions here in which he has shown commendable intelligence. He appears to know the medical sciences or at least anatomy.

Label where the ribs and backbone should be 😁. Alas he has been proven wrong!

As neck pain is not a proof of pregnancy so is back ache.


However, this still doesn't change the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE by any know mean that a fotus would be between the Ribcage and the Backbone. A fotus can only be between the backbone and the external stomach walls.

Even your latest attachment shows that. It is impossible to correct this mistake and lack of knowledge of Allah and His Apostle.

AuthorMan:
When guys like you try to make mockery of the Bible I wonder if your head has a brain at all.

Jesus ate and drank with a set of people. They knew him personally.
They were there when he was caught by the Jews. They forsook him but Peter followed him and the crowd from afar. So, he saw and heard all that happened. All he saw was documented.
When Jesus was on the cross, he spoke to one of the desciples who was at the foot of the cross with his mother. (John)
"Son watch over your mother, mother watch over your son"
The Bible says from that day the disciple took Mary home to take care of her.

All these things were documented by the disciples who saw these things.
But fooools like you have chosen to believe someone who had no dealing with Jesus. Some who came several hundreds of years after claiming one Angel appeared to him.

Common sense demands you to believe eye witnesses and not someone who came hundreds of years after the incident. Someone who could be under the influence of only God knows what

You and your likes lack common sense.

Don't mind them.

Islam with lies and hypocrisy : they are against Paul for not being a direct disciple of Jesus, yet Mohammed is so far away from. Jesus with not one single indirect connection, yet they believe him against every historical source that Jesus was niehter crucified nor killed.

Shameless people!

Qasim6:
God is like a father to us all in the sense that he provides and cares for us all. What we reject is the Christians understanding of Father-Son relationship of God and Jesus.

You too look at this :
Can a slave call his slave master Father?
Every Father knows his children AND no father will enslave ANY of his children.

Have you ever in history come across a CHILD of a Slave Owner who is also a SLAVE of his father?

Qasim6:
If Psalms 91 is something that have to do with Jesus in the slightest, how do you reconcile that with a crucified Jesus that prayed to God concerning the crucifixion in Gethsemane and also have it in mind that Jesus said in John 11:42 that God always hear him.

I guess it's only in Islam that Allah does EVERYTHING you Muslims ask in Prayer.
Do you think Mohammed prayed to Allah after he ate the poisoned Lamb?

In the Christian Faith:
God Hears Every Prayer
God Answers Every Prayer BUT only according to His overall Longterm Will and Purpose.

The purpose of Christ was to be the LAMB of God to take away the sin of the World and
It is a PAINFUL spiritual and physical Burden to carry!

This was why Jesus said:
Lk22:42
42 saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.”


Prayer is not about our WILL but God's WILL.

honesttalk21:
However you choose to see it is fine by me. I have asked you to get the views of SirTee15 which you pretend to ignore.
Did your wife ever complain of feeling any pain around her rib region when she was pregnant?

The picture may not suit the understanding you desire and this is fine. How much gynaecology do you know?

In the diagram attached prove your case by marking where the ribs and backbone are.

You can lie in denial and that indeed is what and who you are.

My wife complained of pain in her neck bones, therefore according to you, her pregnancy must have been in her neck!
SMH!
You know SIRTee15 hence you can call him by yourself : he is most likely busy.

It is a forgone case that the fotus in the womb is NOT between the the ribs and the backbone BUT Between the stomach external skin and the backbone.

Your diagram unfortunately disprove you, Allah and Mohammed sir!

Roycemadeit:
Belief in God leads to assumptions about one's identity. However, the term "God" is exclusive to Christianity as it is featured in Christian text even though it lacks Hebrew origin as it originates from the proto-Germanic word "Gudan," meaning to pour or invoke.

In the Tanakh, Exodus 6:3 states, "that God appeared to Abraham as El Shaddai, with the name Hashem not revealed." This raises questions about linguistic aspects, as the Hebrew deity Jehovah seemingly spoke German in translation, highlighting the complexities and manipulation involved in the would be word of God at the hands of men, to the extent that His name was changed.

Hashem/El Shaddai and God/Jehovah differ in culture, age, and representation, one being a noun and the other a verb with no roots in the culture to which the deity appeared. Yet, contemporary assumptions often equate Chief/Head Deity of numerous culture or religion to God without understanding their distinct meanings.

^{No Thanks to those who used political influence to spread their absurdity, undermining others' beliefs in order to manipulate, brainwash, and subjugate...}

Beliefs tie to cultural identities; mentioning Eledumare associates with Yoruba, while Odin aligns with German identity. The English lack a defined pantheon, making "God" more abstract, invoking rather than personifying.

[color=#9DA000]Cultures construct deities, shaping their creation beliefs and providing answers to existential questions. The deities become intertwined with a culture's origin, history, spirituality, tradition, and language.[/color]

Consider this: What would happen to a culture if it lost its deities? Think about the profound impact on history, tradition, and spirituality. For instance, imagine removing God from the Bible—how would that alter the history of the Israelites?

Hashem" is a Hebrew term that means "The Name." It is used as a substitute for the direct pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, the four-letter Hebrew name of God (YHWH), which is considered too sacred to be uttered. In Jewish tradition, using the term Hashem is a way to show reverence and avoid directly vocalizing the divine name.

The Jews use several terms to refer to YHWH so that they would Not accidentally "utter the name of the YHWH in vain"!

Other replacements include
Adonai= LORD,
Elohim = Generic for God

Qasim6:
Thanks for your concern, I prefer to follow Jesus teachings by following the will of the Father rather than the will of Paul.

By the way do you think Psalms 91 is a Prophecy about Jesus?

But Allah says he's not your Father!

So, how can you follow the will of the Father who has disowned you.

Qur'an 19:92
For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.

So, which Father do you refer to?

Psalms 91 is a hymn of David about ANYONE that who trust in the Lord for his protection: including me TenQ . I don't think it is only about Jesus!

honesttalk21:
Can you see the uterus in this picture? At full term the fetus occupies the most of the uterus. Do you see the ribs in white above it?
Do you know the where the lumbar vertebrae of the backbone extends to? Is the coccyx beneath this part of the backbone?

Call your friend SirTee15 to explain to you hopefully you may understand.
Does it not reach towards the base of the sternum?


And you didn't read this?

In that case one comes to the conclusion that the father of Mary was named 'Imran after that ancestor (in which case the Imran who is Moses father)

Even your picture of the 33weeks old fetus in the uterus is not between the ribs and the backbone.

It is a big goof by Allah sir!


How come it is Mohammed bailing Allah out with respect to Al-Imran?

honesttalk21:
You refer to what you highlighted of my comment in yellow from Ala Maududi. You notice I included in bracket what you disregard in it - Imran mentioned as father of Moses and Aaron in the Bible not u.

You still have no shame sir!
What is wrong is wrong and repeating falsehood wouldn't make it right

Even according to your diagram, the foetus is NOT between the backbone and the ribs but between the backbone and the external stomach wall sir!

Check your coloured diagram again!
Is the baby between the Rib Bones and the back Bone or between the back bone and the external stomach walls?

honesttalk21:
Do you not understand the reference to a common ground in Muhammad pbuh following the tenets of monotheism that Moses preached. Does the Quran exactly say Imran is the father of Moses?

The Allah of the Quran never knew there were two Imran: He spoke of only one. However, when issues of the problematic verses came out (that Moses and Aaron's Father is Imran), the prophet of Allah came to explain and even your Islamic scholars agreed with him.

Qasim6:
Why do you guys even care what Allah "a supposed making of Muhammad" have to say about Jesus crucifixion?

David Wood can keep trying.
As this part of the verse "and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it, they have no knowledge respecting it and only follow a conjecture" clearly indicates he was not crucified.

And it is even obvious that the writers of the Gospels have no clear knowledge of what happened and they followed nothing but conjecture as Allah clearly states in the Qur'an.

Why do I care?
According to you Muslims, Did Jesus die on the cross? Is your answer THE TRUTH

I care for the Salvation of people who sincerely Reject the Messiah who is to be their guarantee for Paradise for a man who is leading them to an unknown destination.

1. You do not know the purpose of the Messiah on the earth
2. All Muslims according to Allah will enter hell fire before Allah will remove them and leave the evil doers on their knees
3. Even the best of you Muslims cannot Guarantee paradise according to Mohammed as everything depends on the destiny of Allah
4. To reject the true God, you were presented with an alternative upgraded from the custodian of the Kaaba to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

I am to open your eyes to the TRUTH of God because, this TRUTH shall set you Free!

Expanse2020:
Where did de meet him is not the upper room again where see and touch him

And which Mary met her at the tomb..where did you read that one from🤣🤣🤣

Can you first explain
1. Why Allah deceived Mary the mother of Jesus with all his Apostles and the Disciples of Jesus?
2. Who was crucified instead of Jesus?
3. Did Jesus go to heaven in secret or in the presence of at least one person? Who was this person?

Where Mary Met Jesus and Which Mary
John 20:11,16:
"But Mary was standing outside the tomb, weeping. Then, while she was weeping, she bowed down and gazed into the tomb . … Jesus said to her, “Mary!” And turning, she said to him, “Rabboni!” (which means, Teacher)."
John 20:18: "Mary Magdalene went, announcing to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord, and these are the things that he said to me.”"


Where Jesus met His disciples After His resurrection
1. John 20:19: "Then, when it was late on the same day, on the first of the Sabbaths, and the doors were closed where the disciples were gathered, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst, and he said to them: “Peace to you.”"

2. John 20:26: "And after eight days, again his disciples were within, and Thomas was with them. Jesus arrived, though the doors had been closed, and he stood in their midst and said, “Peace to you.”"

3. John 21:1: "After this, Jesus manifested himself again to the disciples at the Sea of Tiberias. And he manifested himself in this way."

4. Acts 1:3: "He also presented himself alive to them, after his Passion, appearing to them throughout forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God with many elucidations."

5. Acts 1:9,12: "And when he had said these things, while they were watching, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him from their sight. … Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mountain, which is called Olivet, which is next to Jerusalem, within a Sabbath day’s journey."

Expanse2020:
Listen to Yourself
Some that doesn't know the context of the holy book we be telling about it..
SMH for both of you...
But I asked a question but you didn't answer it
When Jesus died and waked up no one saw it from the tomb till he reached the upper room and until he came out to them no one's know he is inside the upper room too....no be juju be that🤣🤣🤣

On the contrary. The Disciples buried Jesus and
Mary was the first to see Jesus after His resurrection at the grave before the other disciples.
But His disciples saw Him after His resurrection. They even touched Him and He taught them why it is important that the Messiah died and be resurected.

Unlike one man who claimed without an iota of evidence or witness that Jesus wasn't even killed nor was He crucified on the cross but it only appeared so.

Unfortunately, he could not explain
1. Why Allah deceived Mary the mother of Jesus with all his Apostles and the Disciples of Jesus?
2. Who was crucified instead of Jesus?
3. Did Jesus go to heaven in secret or in the presence of at least one person? Who was this person?

Expanse2020:
No you are just xerox copy of him🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Mr. Twister andTrister

Did you listen to his video?

He gave you a proper way to interpret your Quran for consistency with respect to Quran 4:157 and other verses in the Quran.
He was not even going against you but helping you out.

Did Jesus die on the Cross?

honesttalk21:
29 From here begins the second discourse. It was sent down in 9 A.H. on the occasion of the visit of the deputation from the Christian State of Najran, which lay between Hijaz and Yemen. It is said that it comprised 73 villages and towns and was capable of raising an army of more than one hundred thousand strong. The population was wholly Christian and was governed by the "Aqib," who was the head of the community, and the "Sayyid," who was in charge of the social and political affairs and the Bishop, who looked after the religious affairs of the people. The above-mentioned deputation was one of the many who visited the Holy Prophet after the conquest of Makkah, when the whole of Arabia came to realize that the future. of the country was now in his hands. This deputation from Najran to AI-Madinah consisted of 60 men and the three heads of the government. As they had no mind to go to war, the question before them was either to embrace Islam or to live as zimmi (proteges). On this occasion Allah sent down this discourse to the Holy Prophet to invite the members of the deputation to Islam.
30 `Imran was the name of the father of Moses and Aaron and has been mentioned as "Amram" in the Bible.(Imran mentioned as father of Moses and Aaron in the Bible not Quran). For context and relevance remember the earlier reference to the visit of the Najran Christians who believe in Moses also mentioned in the Quran but without any reference to the name of his father as lied about by Tenq.

31 The main cause of the misguidance of the Christians is that they consider Jesus to be the son of God and a partner in God-head, instead of His Servant and Messenger. Therefore this basic error is being corrected with a view to making them understand the true and real Islam. That is why the introduction to the discourse begins with the assertion that Adam and Noah and the Prophets from the family of Abraham and from the family of `Imran, were all human beings and none of them was "God. " Their only distinction was that Allah had chosen them for the preaching of His religion and reforming the World.
32 [b]If[/b] by the "woman of `Imran" is meant the "wife of `Imran", then this must be a different 'Imran from the one mentioned above in v. 33. In that case one comes to the conclusion that [b]the father of Mary was named 'Imran after that ancestor. But if by the "woman of `Imran" is meant a woman from the family of 'Imran, then it merely shows that Mary's mother was a descendant of `Imran. We possess no authentic knowledge of the basis on which
one opinion may be preferred to the other. Though according to some Christian traditions the name of Mary's father was Joachim, history does not say who the father of Mary was and to which family her mother belonged. But if the tradition that the mothers of Mary and Elisabeth, the mother of John, were cousins be taken as we, (Luke 1: 36), then the "woman of `Imran" will mean a woman from the family of `Imran. The Gospel of Luke (1:5) says that Elisabeth, the wife of Zacharias. "was of the daughters of Aaron", that is, 'Imran daughter or woman of `Imran; therefore it is clear that there is no anachronism of confounding Miriam, the sister of Aaron, with the virgin Mary. It is a common practice to call children by the names of their ancestors; so both the explanations are equally acceptable.

Moreover, it does not make any difference whatsoever, in the line of argument adopted here to explain the miraculous birth of Jesus, whether 'Imran was really the name of Mary's father or has been called so in the ancestral sense.


See the vertebrae of the backbone and as the uterus grows into the stomach it is prominently protected with other internal organs by the ribs

1. The highlight in Yellow was from your scholars not me!
2. Even according to your diagram, the foetus is NOT between the backbone and the ribs but between the backbone and the external stomach wall sir!

Check your coloured diagram again!

Expanse2020:
But according to the bible non of the 12desciple was not their they all forsook him, how did they now know they nail him and killed him🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
According to the bible when they went to his tomb after 3days they didn't see him there but they later find him in the upper room where they meeting...
For the record in bible nobody saw him from his tomb till he enter the building and until he came out from the upper room where they saw him...
Abeg did Jesus use abracadabra enter the building nii🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That place no clear 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣



And what exactly you mean crucify because there are three ways they show us crucifixion either the hand when apart, or the hand is fold or he his hang
Please which one should we believe
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
TenQ

Like I said, this is not about any argument.

Is David Wood correct in his interpretation of Quran 4:157 or not.


Better still, what is still your understanding of Quran 4:157 after listening to David Wood?

Thanks

I stumbled on this video by Dr David Wood: He is educating you Muslims on the proper interpretation of your Quran on Jesus death and resurrection (which your scholars mistranslated to suit their narrative).

Most Muslims are convinced that Quran 4:157 denies the crucifixion of Jesus. But have they been misinterpreting the Quran all along? Do other Quran verses suggest that Jesus did die? And can other Quran verses provide a different understanding of 4:157?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMe9tCCs2h8


I plead with you to watch the video and decide if his interpretation makes sense in resolving the Islamic problem of denying the historically supported death of Christ.


Question :
Do you STILL think that Quran 4:157 mean THAT was neither crucified nor killed
OR
That Jesus even though killed was taken up to Allah in heaven therefore the Jews are wrong about their boast that they succeeded in killing him.

This is not to argue anything with you o!

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honesttalk21:
You refer to Tafsir explaination of the Quran 86:6-7 which reads:

At-Tariq 86:6

خُلِقَ مِن مَّآءٍ دَافِقٍ

English - Sahih International

He was created from a fluid, ejected


At-Tariq 86:7

يَخْرُجُ مِنۢ بَيْنِ ٱلصُّلْبِ وَٱلتَّرَآئِبِ

Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs.

Does 86:7 Tell you a fluid is what is ejected?

A fluid is not what is ejected but the baby that was previously housed in the womb.

I was checking to find the comma in arabic:
The Arabic phrase of Quran 86:6 translates word by word into English as "Created from water gushing."

Lets assume that the gushing water according to Allah is the SEMEN or SPERM,
Is a baby created from the sperm or through the fusing of the sperm with an ovum?

Can you see how easily it is to catch the fabricated twist and turns of Muslims in helping resolve the problems created by Allah and his prophet?

Admit that Allah thought that babies are planted as seeds inside a woman and the seed grows to become a baby! This is the most likely prevailing scientific thoughts in the 6th century: so not surprising!

Are you confirming that the supposedly clear words of Allah is not clear that your scholars would have to differ with themselves and you with them to make sense of the Quran?


Do babies proceed between the Backbone and the Ribs?
Is the place between not supposed to be occupied by your lungs?

honesttalk21:
Your Bible says Judah by marriage.

You forgot that you quoted this below for me as an evidence to support your claim!?

honesttalk21:
@Tenq the Gish gallop specialist spotting lies at will here and there. Have you seen this?


Eleazar (Mt 1:15) had two children, the one Mathan (Mt 1:15), and the other Jotham. Joseph is descended from Mathan and Mary from Jotham. Eleazar’s son Mathan begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Joseph. And Eleazar’s son Jotham begot Zadoq, and Zadoq begot Mary by his wife Dina, who is the sister of Elisabeth, the wife of Zechariah. For this reason it is written that the Angel said to Mary, «Behold, Elisabeth your relative has conceived» (Lk 1:36) — that is, the sister of your mother. Now Mary from her father’s side was from the tribe of Judah, but from her mother’s side, from the tribe of Levi. Then the (tribes) were intermingled after the return from the Babylonian captivity through divine providence, so that our Saviour might be seen as being from both of them, in order that, through his kingship, the kingship of Judah might become ineffective, and through his priesthood, the (same would apply to the) priesthood of Levi.

Now you see Levi and this is related to Aaron isn't it?

QED

See your life!

Did you or did you not claim that "Mary from her father’s side was from the tribe of Judah..."

honesttalk21:
The Quran was revealed to Muhammad pbuh and he spread the Quran and teaching to all around him orally at the time with different verses written at different times.

Good !
Then the Quran is a Hadith from Muhammad!

honesttalk21:
I never say Allah wrote anything. Allah revealed the Quran; the recitation, to Prophet Muhammad pbuh through Jibril. Al - Imran in the Quran refers to the father of Mary who bore Jesus not Imram the father of Moses.



I asked:



Unable to answer? Caught in your lie!
I await you rebuttal with a Quran verse that names the father of Moses.

Moses is mentioned by name in the Quran 136 times. These references cover different aspects of Moses’ life, including his birth, upbringing, mission as a prophet, confrontation with Pharaoh, and leading the Israelites however his father’s name is not explicitly mentioned in the Quran.
While the Quran provides extensive details about Moses’ family background, his mother, sister, and other relatives are mentioned, but his father’s name is not specified in connection to him.

The lieing Tenq is guided by Tafsir regardless of the type and is unable to correlate correctly with the Quran verses referred to. A pitiful case of confusion.

You cannot educate the one who fails to appreciate his/her personal lack of knowledge.

Are you saying that Allah never wrote the Quran upon the tablet in heaven? Is it a lie then that the Quran descended from the heavens to the earth in small stages through Jibril?


Please, Are you saying that the CHAPTER 3 of the Quran is named After Al-Imran the Father of Mary and not Al-Imran the Father of Moses, Aaron and Miriam?

Why then do scholars like Al-Maududi say (He even gave the historical background of why the verse was revealed). Is Al-Maududi lying?

Tafsir Quran 3.33-37 Maududi - Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an
.....`Imran was the name of the father of Moses and Aaron and has been mentioned as "Amram" in the Bible....


Secondly, I will like to ask you a question from Quran 3.33:
Quran 3.33
Indeed, Allah chose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of 'Imran over the worlds -

It is understandable why Allah chose Adam (to populate the world with men and prophets)
It is understandable why Allah chose Noah (to repopulate the world with men and prophets)
It is understandable why Allah chose Abraham (to populate the world with men and prophets)
From the Bible, the Family of Imran is to produces preists and prophets in israel
Now, from the Quran, why did Allah choose the Family of Imran (the father of Mary) above the world seeing that he produced only one Prophet (Isa/Jesus) and no other?


Is it true that:
The Quran through Allah aka Mohammed mentioned only one Al-Imran (which is actually true) forgetting that there are TWO Al-Imran (One the Father of Moses, Aaron and Miriam while the other is claimed as damage control to be the Father of Mary the Mother of Jesus).

Is it true that:
The Quran through Allah aka Mohammed did not distinguish nor resolve the confusion in the identity of these to Al-Imran?

honesttalk21:
I cannot imagine this level of stupidity. It has been pointed out that there are limitations to hadith and exegesis which sometimes portray contrary to the Quran.

Indeed the fluid emerges from the man as semen but Quran 86:7 is further stating how the new born developed and is delivered into the world from.

Your fixation on exegesis of the likes of Tabari and others disables you from rational thinking. You must be the type that feels when going to a cold room that will normally be cold fails to respond to warnings when there has been an accident and there is a severe fire probably from equipment malfunction.

Please do away with the tafsirs and respond.

What is the exact name of this fluid from the Taraib?

honesttalk21:
Does the verse with verse say the fluid mentioned in Quran 86:6 is what emerges from 86:7? That the verses follow each other does not mean the latter is exactly the continuation of the former.

Yes after ejaculation and fertilization there's a pregnancy and the result of this; the baby (babies), emerge from the womb.

Where is the womb of a woman normally located in relation to the ribs and backbone with particular reference to time of gestation?

I am not yet asking you for how a baby is formed. I ask about Quran 86:6-7

What is this specific Fluid emanating from the Taraib.
I can see that you seem to be wiser than your scholars who say"

Tafsir Quran 86:6-7 Ibn Kathir
...Then Allah says,
(He is created from a water gushing forth.) meaning, the sexual fluid that comes out bursting forth from the man and the woman. Thus, the child is produced from both of them by the permission of Allah. Due to this Allah says,
(Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) meaning, the backbone (or loins) of the man and the ribs of the woman, which is referring to her chest. Shabib bin Bishr reported from `Ikrimah who narrated from Ibn `Abbas that he said,
(Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) "The backbone of the man and the ribs of the woman. It (the fluid) is yellow and fine in texture. The child will not be born except from both of them (i.e., their sexual fluids).'' Concerning Allah's statement, .....

Tafsir Quran 86:6 Jalal - Al-Jalalayn
the response is: He was created from a gushing fluid, gushing forth from the man and the woman into the womb,

Tafsir Quran86.6-7 Asrar - Kashf Al-Asrar
He was created of gushing water, emerging from between the loins and the chest.
When the human individual was created, he was created from water thrown and spilled, a water that came forth from the back of the man and from the bones within the woman's breast .....

AGAIN:
What is the NAME of this specific Fluid emanating from the Taraib.

honesttalk21:
But Jesus is a descendant of Mary and as he has no human father; who are about literally both his father and mother?

Mary being of the tribe of Judah going by the patriarchy severely emphasised in the bible does not remove the contribution of another tribe. Is it a lie that the Israeli descendants inter- married across the tribes?

Particular so as the spiritual faith of Mary's mother led to her birth who in turn was righteous and gave birth to Jesus.

3 generations of righteous persons on one family line of lineage. Is that in itself not a tremendous sign for one who reasons?

Is Mary from the Tribe of Judah or not?

honesttalk21:
Your level of stupidity is really alarming. You believe because Moses is reported to have spoken face to face with God and Jacob wrestled with God in your bible these statements are to be literally understood to be so? Sorry indeed your claimed following of the Bible in Christianity is defective.

The Quran was revealed to Muhammad pbuh and he spread the Quran and teaching to all around him orally at the time with different verses written at different times.

I believe the Quran as a revelation from Allah through Muhammad pbuh

Coming to the end of one argument and preparing to repeat another?

Make useful use of your time and follow your Bible advice

Is it untrue that Mohammed told you that Allah through Gabriel dictated to him verses..... and you Muslims believed Mohammed?


Please answer this!

honesttalk21:
In this verse, the Quran is using the language and the vocabulary that the Arab could understand. The Quran is not telling us a scientific fact. It is just telling what Dhul-Qarnayn saw with his eyes. His perception/feeling of what was happening.

Consider in comparison the phenomenon of the sun appearing to set into the mountains is an optical illusion caused by the Earth’s rotation and the position of the observer in relation to the landscape.

When the sun is close to the horizon, its light passes through a greater thickness of the Earth’s atmosphere, which scatters shorter wavelengths (blue and green light) and allows longer wavelengths (red and orange light) to reach our eyes. This scattering effect causes the sun to appear larger and gives it a reddish-orange hue, creating a visually striking scene when it seemingly sets behind a mountain range

Our visual perception can be influenced by several factors. The relative scale of the mountains compared to the sun can create an illusion that the sun is setting directly behind them . Additionally, atmospheric conditions such as haze or cloud cover can further enhance this effect by diffusing and refracting sunlight, adding to the impression that the sun is descending into or behind the mountains.

Dhul Qarnayn saw the sun setting in a muddy spring. That’s how he sees it and that’s how it appeared to him (perception not actual).
The verse in question does not imply that the sun actually sets in murky waters. It is a figurative expression used to describe the experience of the people mentioned in the story. It is important to interpret the Quranic verses in their proper context and consider the figurative language used.

Ibn Kathir says: Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun,) means, he followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun's setting, which is the west of the earth. As for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is something impossible [/color] , and the tales told by storytellers that he traveled so far to the west that the sun set behind him are not true at all. Most of these stories come from the myths of the People of the Book and the fabrications and lies of their heretics


وَجَدَهَا تَغۡرُبُ فِى عَيۡنٍ حَمِئَةٍ۬
(he found it setting in a spring of Hami'ah) meaning, he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something which everyone who goes to the coast can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed. Hami'ah is, according to one of the two views, derived from the word Hama'ah, which means mud.

Ala Maududi also says:

“The setting place of the sun” does not mean the place of the setting of the sun. According to Ibn Kathir, it means that he marched to the west conquering one country after the other till he reached the last boundary of the land, beyond which there was ocean.

“He found it setting in a muddy spring”: If Zul Qarnain was Cyrus, then that place would be the western limit of Asia Minor and the black waters would be the Aegean Sea. This interpretation is supported by the use of the word ain instead of bahr in the Quran.

The phrase “وَجَدَهَا تَغۡرُبُ فِى عَيۡنٍ حَمِئَةٍ۬” is from the Arabic language and can be translated to English as “He found it setting in a spring of dark mud” or “He found it setting in a murky spring.” The phrase is often used in the context of describing the sunset, where “it” refers to the sun and “spring of dark mud” or “murky spring” refers to the horizon or the place where the sun appears to set.

In Arabic poetry and literature, this phrase is used to depict the beauty of nature and the vivid imagery of a sunset. It conveys a sense of tranquility and paints a picture of the sun descending into a serene, yet mysterious, setting. The use of descriptive language in Arabic poetry is known for its rich symbolism and evocative imagery, and this phrase is a prime example of that.

One thing I love about Islam is that conjured explanations to defend the Qur'an or Mohammed easily crumbles with TRUTHFUL answers to questions from the Qur'an itself.

Qur'an 18:86
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."


The Almighty Islamic argument of Perception
If Dhulqanain appear to see the sun setting in some murky waters, [color=red]did he also appear to see a people there?

Why are you dodging this questions
Can you tell me how the woman's menstrual flow proceed from her rib bone (Taraib)?

Or

Can you tell me how the woman's arousal flow proceed from her rib bone (Taraib)?

honesttalk21:
Is it a lie that the Quran was passed down orally and used for prayers in congregations from the early followers of prophet Muhammad till date?

Is it a lie that stringent scrutiny is made to ensure the Quran is properly and correctly recited? Though there is scrutiny with the hadith is it the same level as the Quran?

A prayer is not valid without the recitation of Surah Fatiha of the Quran which hadith omitted invalidates the prayer? Tell me.

The question was:

From whose mouth did you Muslims get the quran?
Was it from Mohammed or Allah?

I did not ask either for chains of narration or the preservation of the Qur'an : that is for another day.

Is it untrue that Mohammed told you that Allah through Gabriel dictated to him verses..... and you Muslims believed Mohammed?


Please answer this!

honesttalk21:
Realistically speaking because you have a father then there becomes zero regards to your maternal origin?

There are matrilineal and patrynal ancestry with the case of Jesus who has no earthly father who's ancestry will be used unless you agree with slander that Mary (God forbid) had premarital affairs which resulted in a child?

Why will God implicitly lie about Jesus's paternal ancestry when he has no earthly father. Oh this Biblical god and Tenq are one of a lieing kind.

The question here is not about Jesus but Mary.
According to you, if her father is from the Tribe of Judah, what tribe does Mary belong to?

honesttalk21:
You have been informed that what emerges from the between the ribs of the woman and her backbone is the baby housed in her womb during gestation?

Why do you hold on to misconceptions when the facts have been made clear? Where is the womb of a woman located during the gestatio period?

Is the Baby a fluid gushing forth!?



You will note that up till now, you have not been able to give the Biological name of the fluid from the rib bones (Taraib) of the woman (I've heard Mensural flow, follicular fluid, Arousal fluid and now baby)

What is the exact name of this light yellow fluid?