₦airaland Forum

gaskiyamagana:
You will see how he will twist, misinterpretate and draw irrelevant inferences from your explanation.

Please check my response to him out!

LOL!

The problem is that you despise the Truth whenever it says what you want to hear!

gaskiyamagana:
This another demonstration of being fake and Adulterated Islamic teacher, whose is unaware or ignorant of Islamic theology, yet bragging about knowing Islam more than the Muslims.

Have I ever claimed to know Islam more than Muslims?
No Sir!

The difference between us is that when I read the Qur'an or Hadith or Tafsir, I ask Questions BUT you don't ask Questions.

When I ask you these same Questions, you get angry and think it is pride.

According to Islamic theology, What is the meaning of the title Messiah!

The Jews know the meaning, this is why they rejected Jesus as the Messiah. The Christian's know who the Messiah is and that's why they can say Jesus is the Messiah.

Now, for you Muslims, what does the title Messiah mean?

Explore2xmore:
It is a well-known and recognised fact amongst the majority of the Muslim jurists (fuqaha) that suckling is not permitted after two (or 2 and a half) years, neither does it affect the rules of Hijab and marriage.

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) quite clearly mentioned this in one Hadith where he said: “…suckling is only valid if it takes place in the suckling period.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 2504 & Sahih Muslim, no. 1455). Providing this from the same line of hadith you refer strongly to.
The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) also said: “Suckling (radha’a) does not prohibit (i.e. marriage) except which penetrates the intestines (m: meaning which serves as a nourishment for the child) from the breasts, and it is prior to weaning.” (Recorded by Imam al-Tirmidhi in his Sunan, no. 1152)

I agree with you, but these were later modifications to the law of Suckling of adult men
.
1. It was a tradition carried out in the pre-Islamic times among the Arabs
2. During Mohammeds lifetime, he commanded it (Salim is an example)

Other modifications of the Islamic laws include the law of Mutah!
It used to be allowed during the time of the prophet up to the time of Uthman
Nowadays, you Sunni Muslims abrogated Mutah.

Such is the case with Breastfeeding of adults.


But my argument is NOT about the morality of the act or not. My argument is that Verses of Breastfeeding was revealed by Allah in the Qur'an But now it is no where to be found

Who deleted it from the Qur'an?

Explore2xmore:
You insist on hadith reports yet Abu Bakr burnt his own collection despite his closeness to the Prophet.

The prophet disliked and did not approve writing other than the Quran.

A lot of the hadith started getting collected a century after Prophet Muhammad had died. What is to be believed? the Prophet's rendition of what Allah revealed to him or what others who may over praise or mischievously say things that aren't true? More so considering the time lapse.

Abu Bakr did NOT burn his Qur'an.

It was Uthman that burned ALL variant Qur'an from EVERYONE who had his own codex.

I agree with you that Mohammed forbade Muslims from taking hadiths from him. Unfortunately, who are we to blame other than Muslims who decided to collect every hadith about Mohammed.

Of course this is both good and bad. Without your hadiths and other books, the Qur'an would have been completely confusing. The hadiths unfortunately has contradictions and its own confusion added to the Qur'an. It is not the fault of Christians o.

Are you a Qur'an only Muslim?

Explore2xmore:
Salim's case is exceptional.

Salim (in this Hadith) is Salim ibn Ma’qal…Abu Hudhayfa had adopted him in accordance with the customs of the Arabs. He (Salim) had been brought up and raised by Abu Hudhayfa and his wife as their own son. When the verse of the Qur’an “Call them (your adopted children) by (the names of) their (real) fathers….”Surah al-Ahzab, V: 5) was revealed, the ruling of adopting children was abrogated (in that one can no longer consider an adopted son to be one’s own). However, Salim continued to reside and enter the house of Sahla (the wife of Abu Hudhayfa) as he was a minor. When he grew old and came close to puberty, both Abu Hudhayfa and Sahla disliked the idea of him entering freely upon Sahla, but they found it difficult to mention this to him, given the fact that he had lived with them (and was brought up by them), hence they asked the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) regarding this. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to Sahla: “Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the dislike) which Abu Hudhayfa feels in his heart will disappear” hence she suckled him and it so happened (i.e. the dislike of Abu Hudhayfa disappeared)…” (al-Mufhim lima Ashkal min talkhis Kitab Muslim, 4/186, Dar Ibn Kathir print)

The above clearly illustrates that Salim was adopted by Abu Hudhayfa and his wife Sahla. He had lived with them and was raised and brought up by them since childhood. However, Islam does not recognize legal adoption and a adopted child is not considered a real child, hence after reaching puberty, the rules of Hijab are applicable. It became very difficult for Salim to live with his adoptive mother due to this rule, thus the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) advised Sahla to make Salim drink her breast-milk, whereby the rules of Hijab would be lifted.

It is narrated in the Tabaqat of Ibn Sa’d and elsewhere that Sahla would pour her breast-milk into a utensil each day for five continuous days and Salim would drink from it. He did not directly drink from the breast of Sahla, as it is not permitted to expose one’s awra in front of a non-Mahram adult let alone have him suckled.

Thus, the objection raised by some non-Muslims that this was an immoral act has no significance, for Sahla did not directly suckle Salim, as he had reached puberty. Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (Allah have mercy on him) has also mentioned this in his al-Isaba fi tamiz al-Sahaba. (See: Tabaqat Ibn Sa’d, 8/271 & al-Isaba, 4/337)

I agree with most of what you said as per the history with respect to breastfeeding of adults except for the method by which it is done.

I think my question was clear.
1. I just read a chunk of Tabaqat of Ibn Sa’d and I find no such thing like Salim would drink milk for five continous days. Perhaps you can give me the link. I have the pdf of Tabaqat of Ibn Sa’d, nothing like that is there
As you said:
It is narrated in the Tabaqat of Ibn Sa’d and elsewhere that Sahla would pour her breast-milk into a utensil each day for five continuous days and Salim would drink from it.

2. We have established that the command of Breastfeeding adults was given by Allah. The problem is HOW is it done?
Salim's case is an example : all the Sahih hadiths showed that for Salim, it was the direct Suckling of a woman's breast. Aisha also commanded it for her sisters BUT the other wives of Mohammed did not like it.


Looking at the Sahih Hadiths again:
1. The verse of Breastfeeding was revealed

Sunan Ibn Majah 1944
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”


2. As of the time Mohammed passed away, the verse on Breastfeeding was being Recited

Sunan an-Nasa'i 3307: Book 26, Hadith 112
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
"One of the things that Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed" -(one of the narrators) Al-Harith said (in his narration): "One of the things that were revealed in the Qur'an"- "was that ten known breast-feedings make marriage prohibited, then that was abrogated and changed to five known breast-feedings. Then the Messenger of Allah passed away when this was something that was still being recited in the Qur'an."


3. Other wives of Mohammed refused to Breastfeed a man unless he is an infant. They claimed that they thought that the case of Salim was a concession. Do you think they expressed milk for babies?

Sunan Abi Dawud 2061
A’ishah wife of the Prophet(ﷺ) and Umm Salamah said “Abu Hudaifah bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah bin ‘Abd Shams adopted Salim as his son and married him to his niece Hind, daughter of Al Walid bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah. He (Salim) was the freed slave of a woman from the Ansar (the Helpers) as the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) adopted Zaid as his son. In pre Islamic days when anyone adopted a man as his son, the people called him by his name and he was given a share from his inheritance. Allaah, the Exalted, revealed about this matter Call them by (the name of) their fathers, that is juster in the sight of Allaah. And if ye know not their fathers, then (they are) your brethren in the faith and your clients. They were then called by their names of their fathers. A man, whose father was not known, remained under the protection of someone and considered brother in faith. Sahlah daughter of Suhail bin Amr Al Quraishi then came and said Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ), we used to consider Salim(our) son. He dwelled with me and Abu Hudhaifah in the same house, and he saw me in the short clothes, but Allaah the Exalted, has revealed about them what you know, then what is your opinion about him? The Prophet (ﷺ) said give him your breast feed. She gave him five breast feeds. He then became like her foster son. Hence, A’ishah(may Allaah be pleased with her) used to ask the daughters of her sisters and the daughters of her brethren to give him breast feed five times, whom A’ishah wanted to see and who wanted to visit her. Though he might be of age; he then visited her. But Umm Salamah and all other wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) refused to allow anyone to visit them on the basis of such breast feeding unless one was given breast feed during infancy. They told A’ishah by Allaah we do not know whether that was a special concession granted by the Prophet (ﷺ) to Salim exclusive of the people.


4. I am sure you know the meaning of SUCKLE HIM!?
It is different from give him milk to drink. This is the instruction of Prophet Mohammed.
Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to Sahla: “Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the dislike) which Abu Hudhayfa feels in his heart will disappear” hence she suckled him and it so happened (i.e. the dislike of Abu Hudhayfa disappeared)…

Explore2xmore:
An important point about Rida’ al-Kabir (breastfeeding adult males) is that in order for a strange man and a woman to get Mahram, a skin contact needs to be established first between them and that such a practice is Haram (unlawful) as a matter of fact.

Many early Islamic laws were like that my brother.

Like:
-The Law of Mutah allowed by Allah in the Qur'an.
-The Law of Divorce where Allah allowed pre-pubescent girls to be divorced.

Don't forget that through Mohammed Salim broke the rule of lawfulness as his mouth contacted the breast of (was it Aisha). Should we not follow the example of the prophet because of modernisation?


Can any Muslim claim that he knows better than Mohammed?

Explore2xmore:
What you highlighted in blue is in the Quran.

Call them by [the names of] their fathers; it is more just in the sight of Allah. But if you do not know their fathers - then they are [still] your brothers in religion and those entrusted to you. And there is no blame upon you for that in which you have erred but [only for] what your hearts intended. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
Surah Al-Ahzab verse 5

Confirm this verse is in the Quran. Never deleted!

Thank you for the observation .
The verse in blue indeed was not deleted

Qur'an 33:5
"Call them by [the names of] their fathers; it is more just in the sight of Allah. But if you do not know their fathers - then they are [still] your brothers in religion and those entrusted to you. And there is no blame upon you for that in which you have erred but [only for] what your hearts intended. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful."

The deleted verse is that of the command of BREASTFEEDING adult men 10 and then 5 times. This gives the context for Qur'an 33:5.

Several hadiths attest to the fact that the verse on breastfeeding adult 10 times was revealed by Allah. It was then abrogated to 5 times. Unfortunately, both the 10 and 5 times of breastfeeding command is found absent in the modern Qur'an


Thank you

Mr LegalWolf.

Why are you AFRAID of the truth?
Why!?


Is this hadith below Weak, FAKE or FABRICATED?

Sunan Abi Dawud 2061
A’ishah wife of the Prophet(ﷺ) and Umm Salamah said “Abu Hudaifah bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah bin ‘Abd Shams adopted Salim as his son and married him to his niece Hind, daughter of Al Walid bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah. He (Salim) was the freed slave of a woman from the Ansar (the Helpers) as the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) adopted Zaid as his son. In pre Islamic days when anyone adopted a man as his son, the people called him by his name and he was given a share from his inheritance. Allaah, the Exalted, revealed about this matter Call them by (the name of) their fathers, that is juster in the sight of Allaah. And if ye know not their fathers, then (they are) your brethren in the faith and your clients. They were then called by their names of their fathers. A man, whose father was not known, remained under the protection of someone and considered brother in faith....




1. Is the hadith fake?
2. Was the verse on breastfeeding revealed by Allah in the Qur'an?
3. If it was revealed, who removed/deleted it from the modern Qur'an?

Explore2xmore:
The hadith you state originated from Aaisha was narrated by Muhammad ibn Ishaaq. His version says: The verse of stoning and breastfeeding of an adult ten times was revealed, and it was written on a leaf that was kept beneath a bed in my [‘Aa’ishah’s] house. When the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) fell sick, we were preoccupied with his situation, and a little animal of ours came in and ate it.

This was narrated by Imam Ahmad in al-Musnad (43/343), and Ibn Maajah in as-Sunan (no. 1944); the latter version says: When the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.

As you can see, this version does mention the odd phrase that is additional to what was narrated by the two great imams, Yahya ibn Sa‘eed al-Ansaari and Maalik ibn Anas (may Allah have mercy on them both). In this version of the hadith it says that a tame sheep – which is a sheep that people feed in their homes – came in and ate the page that contained the verse of stoning and the verse of breastfeeding an adult.

This difference was sufficient for the scholars of hadith to rule that the version narrated by Muhammad ibn Ishaaq was da‘eef (weak), and that it was to be rejected and regarded as odd. In their view, the odd hadith is any hadith in which a trustworthy narrator differed with that which was narrated by other trustworthy narrators who were more accurate than him in the narration or were greater in number.

Please correct me if I am wrong
1. Aisha narrated DIRECTLY most of her own hadiths as she live long after the death of Mohammed
2. I thought that Muhammad ibn Ishaq was an early Islamic historian and biographer, not a narrator of Hadiths. Hewrote the book "Sirat Rasul Allah"

Thank you

rolams:
I don't have time to waste.

All I need you to do is to ASK questions from your Quran and Hadiths. When you ask questions, you will find the truth.

Why are you AFRAID of the truth?
Why?


Is this hadith below FAKE?

Sunan Abi Dawud 2061
A’ishah wife of the Prophet(ﷺ) and Umm Salamah said “Abu Hudaifah bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah bin ‘Abd Shams adopted Salim as his son and married him to his niece Hind, daughter of Al Walid bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah. He (Salim) was the freed slave of a woman from the Ansar (the Helpers) as the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) adopted Zaid as his son. In pre Islamic days when anyone adopted a man as his son, the people called him by his name and he was given a share from his inheritance. Allaah, the Exalted, revealed about this matter Call them by (the name of) their fathers, that is juster in the sight of Allaah. And if ye know not their fathers, then (they are) your brethren in the faith and your clients. They were then called by their names of their fathers. A man, whose father was not known, remained under the protection of someone and considered brother in faith....




1. Is the hadith fake?
2. Was the verse on breastfeeding revealed by Allah in the Qur'an?
3. If it was revealed, who removed/deleted it from the modern Qur'an?

gaskiyamagana:
Well done.
Fake and Adulterated Islamic teacher in the Christian University of Islamic Studies. Keep on going in your vain efforts.

Is this hadith FAKE?

Sunan Abi Dawud 2061
A’ishah wife of the Prophet(ﷺ) and Umm Salamah said “Abu Hudaifah bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah bin ‘Abd Shams adopted Salim as his son and married him to his niece Hind, daughter of Al Walid bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah. He (Salim) was the freed slave of a woman from the Ansar (the Helpers) as the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) adopted Zaid as his son. In pre Islamic days when anyone adopted a man as his son, the people called him by his name and he was given a share from his inheritance. Allaah, the Exalted, revealed about this matter Call them by (the name of) their fathers, that is juster in the sight of Allaah. And if ye know not their fathers, then (they are) your brethren in the faith and your clients. They were then called by their names of their fathers. A man, whose father was not known, remained under the protection of someone and considered brother in faith....



Is the hadith fake?

Explore2xmore:
The thirty-third chapter of the Qur'an, al-Ahzab, is alleged to have contained 200 or nearly 300 verses, all of which except 73 are said to have been lost. The claim of 200 verses is attributed to Ummu 'l-mu'minin, 'A'ishah. "It has been narrated by Abu 'Ubayd in al-Fada'il and by Ibn al-Anbari and Ibn Mardawayh from Aishah that she said, 'The surah al-Ahzab was recited in the days of the Prophet two hundred verses, but when 'Uthman wrote the Qur'an, he was unable to find more than what is there at present." 1 Now there are only 73 verses in this surah.

Hudhayfah is said to claim that 70 verses of this chapter were lost.2 But Ubayy ibn Ka'b is made to say that this surah was equal to, or even bigger than the second chapter al-Baqarah.3 Also, 'Ikrimah (a tabi'i, disciple of the companions) has reportedly said the same.4 Now the chapter al-Baqarah contains 286 verses. It means accordingly that 213 or even more verses were lost, including the verse of stoning.

2. The ninth chapter, at-Tawbah: It is alleged that two-thirds or three-fourths of this surah has been lost. This report is attributed to Hudhayfah al-Yamani.5 Imam Malik ibn Anas was asked as to why there is no "Bismillah" in this surah. He said, "It was lost with its earlier parts, because it is confirmed that it was equal to surah al-Baqarah in length."6
But there are only 129 verses in this surah of the Qur'an.

3. Then come the putetic surahs of al-Hafd and al-Khal' which were recorded by such famous companions as Ubayy ibn Ka'b and Abu Musa al-Ash'ari7 and which the caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab used to recite in his qunut.8 The surahs were as follows:

This English booklet is not the place to show the absurdity of the sentences in these alleged surahs. Some grammatical mistakes in them clearly show that the people who fabricated them did not know Arabic well. And these incorrect sentences have been attributed to such Arab companions as Hazrat Umar, Ubayy ibn Ka'b and Abu Musa al-Ash'ari!

Anyone interested to see the mistakes and absurdities of these supposed surahs, is advised to see my Arabic booklet Nazaratun Musta'jilah fi mas'alati Tahrifi 'l-Qur'an or better still, Shaykh Muhammad Jawad al-Balaghi's Ala'u 'r-Rahman fi Tafsiri 'l-Qur'an (vol. 1 [Beirut], pp. 23-24).

I am honoured to chat here with a scholar of Islam on this post as you said:
Anyone interested to see the mistakes and absurdities of these supposed surahs, is advised to see my Arabic booklet Nazaratun Musta'jilah fi mas'alati Tahrifi 'l-Qur'an


I think you are trying to say (if I get you correctly) that the Quran had been perfectly preserved from Mohammed with not a single verse lost.

If there is any discrepancy in knowledge, I think it was caused by Muslims themselves. Why? Because when we read your trusted Islamic literatures, many times they contradict your preferred standard Islamic Narrative

Example :
The Qur'an is the exact word of Allah which is perfectly preserved up to the diacritical marks

But we see as we read your books that
1. Up to 32 different Arabic Qur'an are in existence
2. There are some differences in your arabic Qur'an (a lot of differences have been pulled out from between Warsh and Hafs Qur'an)
3. Some of your hadiths say that some verses were lost as you've discussed above.
4. We note that the Quran of Abu Bakr and that of Uthman were not used to produce the modern Qur'an rather RECITATIONS that came much later were used.
5. Any hadith you don't like is made DAIF or FABRICATED.

These are the problems sir.

Explore2xmore:
The Qur'an does not in any place order that adulterers be stoned, rather their prescribed punishment is being whipped 100 times (24:2). The ulamaa', however, are unanimous in their opinion that the penalty for married men or women who commit adultery is to be stoned to death.
This discrepancy is explained by the hadith as due to the loss of this verse in the Qur'an to a hungry goat which ate the page upon which it was preserved. In point of fact, the Islamic legal tradition largely took form in Iraq, where there was a very large, old and well established school of Jewish halacha or religious law. The prescribed punishment for adultery in the halachah is stoning to death (based on Deuteronomy 23:23-24 and extended by the rabbis to include all cases of adultery) and it is likely that Islamic scholars working in the 8th and 9th century in Iraq were influenced by Jewish law to include this more strict punishment, which was not practiced by the believers of Muhammad's time and the first century of his movement. The hadith about the goat eating the verse from the Qur'an, then, is likely a fabrication (as are the vast majority of hadith, which cannot be reliably traced in most cases to before the beginning of the 8th century) and an excuse to include this punishment in the shari'ah even though it is not found in the Qur'an. As if to underline the point, many of the hadith that record Muhammad ordering stoning include the detail that the men being stoned were Jewish.

Okay!
We will have time to discuss about the verse on stoning. But I understand what you have said here.

Don't forget that my problem is not with the hadith

Sunan Ibn Majah 1944
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”

My aim was to show that
1. The Almighty Allah revealed verses on Breastfeeding adults
2. The verses are not found in the modern Qur'an
3. I have shown Evidences of this on this post that 1 and 2 is true

You have been more honourable than your peers here.

If 10 times breastfeeding was abrogated to 5 times breastfeeding : Who later abrogated the 5 times to zero?

Why would Aisha tell a lie on this?
I am sure you know that ALL hadiths by Aisha are taken very seriously : she is probably the only woman who narrated so much hadiths

Please note that the hadith

Sunan Ibn Majah 1944
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed1, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”

The hadith is rated by Muslim scholars as HASSAN and not DAIF nor MAWDU even though this is not my argument.

A Hadith being Hassan is not saying it is untrue, it is saying that it is GOOD enough to be trusted

Explore2xmore:
The hadith you state originated from Aaisha was narrated by Muhammad ibn Ishaaq. His version says: The verse of stoning and breastfeeding of an adult ten times was revealed, and it was written on a leaf that was kept beneath a bed in my [‘Aa’ishah’s] house. When the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) fell sick, we were preoccupied with his situation, and a little animal of ours came in and ate it.

This was narrated by Imam Ahmad in al-Musnad (43/343), and Ibn Maajah in as-Sunan (no. 1944); the latter version says: When the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.

As you can see, this version does mention the odd phrase that is additional to what was narrated by the two great imams, Yahya ibn Sa‘eed al-Ansaari and Maalik ibn Anas (may Allah have mercy on them both). In this version of the hadith it says that a tame sheep – which is a sheep that people feed in their homes – came in and ate the page that contained the verse of stoning and the verse of breastfeeding an adult.

This difference was sufficient for the scholars of hadith to rule that the version narrated by Muhammad ibn Ishaaq was da‘eef (weak), and that it was to be rejected and regarded as odd. In their view, the odd hadith is any hadith in which a trustworthy narrator differed with that which was narrated by other trustworthy narrators who were more accurate than him in the narration or were greater in number.

Thank you Sir.

However, I am not particular about Aisha saying that a tame sheep ate the Qur'an: My argument was that the verse on breastfeeding was revealed by Allah in the Quran. The hadith I quoted is rated as Sahih by you Muslims

Sunan an-Nasa'i 3307: Book 26, Hadith 112
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
"One of the things that Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed" -(one of the narrators) Al-Harith said (in his narration): "One of the things that were revealed in the Qur'an"- "was that ten known breast-feedings make marriage prohibited, then that was abrogated and changed to five known breast-feedings. Then the Messenger of Allah passed away when this was something that was still being recited in the Qur'an."


The second hadith which showed that the verse of breastfeeding was revealed in the Quran is

Sunan Abi Dawud 2061
A’ishah wife of the Prophet(ﷺ) and Umm Salamah said “Abu Hudaifah bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah bin ‘Abd Shams adopted Salim as his son and married him to his niece Hind, daughter of Al Walid bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah. He (Salim) was the freed slave of a woman from the Ansar (the Helpers) as the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) adopted Zaid as his son. In pre Islamic days when anyone adopted a man as his son, the people called him by his name and he was given a share from his inheritance. Allaah, the Exalted, revealed about this matter Call them by (the name of) their fathers, that is juster in the sight of Allaah. And if ye know not their fathers, then (they are) your brethren in the faith and your clients. They were then called by their names of their fathers. A man, whose father was not known, remained under the protection of someone and considered brother in faith. Sahlah daughter of Suhail bin Amr Al Quraishi then came and said Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ), we used to consider Salim(our) son. He dwelled with me and Abu Hudhaifah in the same house, and he saw me in the short clothes, but Allaah the Exalted, has revealed about them what you know, then what is your opinion about him? The Prophet (ﷺ) said give him your breast feed. She gave him five breast feeds. He then became like her foster son. Hence, A’ishah(may Allaah be pleased with her) used to ask the daughters of her sisters and the daughters of her brethren to give him breast feed five times, whom A’ishah wanted to see and who wanted to visit her. Though he might be of age; he then visited her. But Umm Salamah and all other wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) refused to allow anyone to visit them on the basis of such breast feeding unless one was given breast feed during infancy. They told A’ishah by Allaah we do not know whether that was a special concession granted by the Prophet (ﷺ) to Salim exclusive of the people.


Note the verse yet undeleted from the Qur'an highlighted in YELLOW!

Another Hadith which showed that the verse of breastfeeding was revealed in the Qur'an is

Sunan an-Nasa'i 3224
Narrated 'Aishah:
It was narrated from 'Aishah the wife of the Prophet, and Umm Salamah the wife of the Prophet that Abu Hudhaifah bin 'Utbah bin Rabi'ah bin Abd Shams --who was one of those who had been present at Badr with the Messenger of Allah-- adopted Salim --who was the freed slave of an Ansari woman-- as the Messenger of Allah had adopted Zaid bin Harithah. Abu Hudhaifah bin 'Utbah married Salim to his brother's daughter Hind bint Al-Walid bin 'Utbah bin Rabi'ah. Hind bint Al-Walid bin 'Utbah was one of the first Muhajir women, and at that time she was one of the best single women of the Quraish. When Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed the following concerning Zaid bin Harithah: "Call them by (the names of) their fathers, that is more just with Allah. But if you know not their fathers' (names, call them) your brothers in Faith and Mawalikum (your freed slaves).' Each of them went back to being called after his father, and if a person's father was unknown, he was named after his former masters.






So, my friend, I appreciate your input : you can see that the three hadiths I've quoted here are all Sahih and they all show that the verse on Breastfeeding was revealed by Allah.

Thanks

gaskiyamagana:
Lost but found QUR'AN proclamater found in Nigeria's online Media, NairaLand. Wonder shall never end.

Please open your eyes to the truth and listen to your Conscience.

I haven't used the Bible for you. Just your Qur'an and Hadiths.

Read, IQRA BUT ask questions that you may understand what you read

gaskiyamagana:
Once again, Messiah of Q5:114-118 or which one you are talking about?

1. If you can tell me what the Messiah mean from the Qur'an, maybe!
2. I speak of the Messiah as spoken by the prophets of God like Moses, Isaiah, Daniel, Zachariah, Ezekiel, Micah, Hosea, Zechariah and Malachi
3. I speak of the Messiah who was and is and is to come.


It is amazing that You Muslims never discuss WHEN Allah and Jesus spoke the verse you acclaimed to him in Qur'an 5:114-118

4. When did Allah ask Jesus the Question?

gaskiyamagana:
Well done.
Fake and Adulterated Islamic teacher in the Christian University of Islamic Studies. Keep on going in your vain efforts.

I only show you things from your books!

Then I ask you Questions you wouldn't normally ask nor answer.

It's all for your good o!

gaskiyamagana:
Sorry to say that you are wasting your time to explain one thing or the other about his false and fallacy accusations about Islam. His brain, reasoning and mind have been hatredly programmed that without faith based brain -surgery, he will not listen let alone accepting your correction.

Too bad you couldn't answer any questions on this topic.

Sorry bro

Why not reach out to the Messiah for your Salvation!?

gaskiyamagana:
Course Code: CIS 666
Course Title: Lost But Christian KORAN
Course Objective: At the end of the teaching, students must have been thoroughly brain brainwashed and indoctrinated that QUR'AN possessed textbook quality of the Bible.
Lecturer: TenQ.

It is amazing how much a person can learn about Islam by simply asking Questions!

LOL!

A lost verse is found.

Is it true that one of the DELETED verse on breastfeeding adult men in the Qur'an is

Call them by (the name of) their fathers, that is juster in the sight of Allaah. And if ye know not their fathers, then (they are) your brethren in the faith and your clients.

Is it true that one of the DELETED verse on breastfeeding adult men in the Qur'an is

Call them by (the name of) their fathers, that is juster in the sight of Allaah. And if ye know not their fathers, then (they are) your brethren in the faith and your clients.


What is the context of the revealed Qur'an 33:5

No wonder, the Qur'an of Abu Bakr and the Qur'an of Uthman disappeared and totally vanished only to be replaced with a Narration


EVIDENCE :

Sunan Abi Dawud 2061
A’ishah wife of the Prophet(ﷺ) and Umm Salamah said “Abu Hudaifah bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah bin ‘Abd Shams adopted Salim as his son and married him to his niece Hind, daughter of Al Walid bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah. He (Salim) was the freed slave of a woman from the Ansar (the Helpers) as the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) adopted Zaid as his son. In pre Islamic days when anyone adopted a man as his son, the people called him by his name and he was given a share from his inheritance. Allaah, the Exalted, revealed about this matter Call them by (the name of) their fathers, that is juster in the sight of Allaah. And if ye know not their fathers, then (they are) your brethren in the faith and your clients. They were then called by their names of their fathers. A man, whose father was not known, remained under the protection of someone and considered brother in faith. Sahlah daughter of Suhail bin Amr Al Quraishi then came and said Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ), we used to consider Salim(our) son. He dwelled with me and Abu Hudhaifah in the same house, and he saw me in the short clothes, but Allaah the Exalted, has revealed about them what you know, then what is your opinion about him? The Prophet (ﷺ) said give him your breast feed. She gave him five breast feeds. He then became like her foster son. Hence, A’ishah(may Allaah be pleased with her) used to ask the daughters of her sisters and the daughters of her brethren to give him breast feed five times, whom A’ishah wanted to see and who wanted to visit her. Though he might be of age; he then visited her. But Umm Salamah and all other wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) refused to allow anyone to visit them on the basis of such breast feeding unless one was given breast feed during infancy. They told A’ishah by Allaah we do not know whether that was a special concession granted by the Prophet (ﷺ) to Salim exclusive of the people.

Here above is a much detailed and clearer hadith that explains the command of breastfeeding.

Note the verse undeleted from the Qur'an highlighted in YELLOW!


Is the Hadith above a Fabrication?

Please tell me that the Hadith above is untrustworthy!



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First, I must appreciate and commend you for being the first Muslim who attempted to resolve the difficult problem as a result of this post, thus, I will attempt to go through it with you one point after the other.

Explore2xmore:
Hanbal ibn Ishaaq said: I heard Abu ‘Abdullah say: The narration of Ibn Ishaaq cannot be used as proof.
‘Abdullah ibn Ahmad said: He – i.e., Ahmad ibn Hanbal – did not use his reports as evidence when discussing what is Sunnah.
Ayyoob ibn Ishaaq said: I asked Ahmad ibn Hanbal: O Abu ‘Abdullah, if Ibn Ishaaq is the only narrator of the hadith, will you accept it? He said: No, by Allah, for I have seen him putting together the words of many narrators in a single hadith, and not separating the narration of one person from that of another.
The commentators on the Musnad of Imam Ahmad said (about the given hadith narration):
Its isnaad is da‘eef because the only one who narrated it was Muhammad ibn Ishaaq, and its text contains something odd.

1. Your first argument was about the Reliability of Ibn Ishaaq in the Isnad of the hadith or Qur'an.

I don't think I related any hadith with respect to narratives by Ibn Ishaaq. The hadeeths I narrated were by Aisha and Umm Fadl with Aisha being the majority.

I am open to correction in case I have misunderstood you.

Explore2xmore:
Note that many narrations show that there was no "breastfeeding" of adults, but the mother milk was milked and then consumed by an adult from a vessel.

2. Your second argument was that it wasn't the actual breastfeeding BUT the milk from a a woman was given to the man to drink five times.

Unfortunately, I have gone through hadiths from Muslim, Bukhari, Sunan an-Nasa'i, Sunan Abi Dawud, Jami` at-Tirmidhi and I find no such hadith.

What I find was that the Wives of Mohammed did NOT like the practice and they protested to Aisha (of course they didn't have a say in the matter).

My argument was that Prophet Mohammed did NOT mean that the woman should express breast milk for the man BUT that the man should be suckled by the woman.
In Sunan an-Nasa'i 3321 and Sunan an-Nasa'i 3324 Salim was breastfed as a man according to the instruction of Mohammed. (The other wives of Mohammed told Aisha that they wouldn't carry out the disgusting order as they thought it was a concession given to Salim)


The question you want to ask is WHY would the prophet of Allah grant such a concession to Salim?

Sunan an-Nasa'i 3319
Zainab bint Abi Salamah said:
"I heard 'Aisha, the wife of the Prophet say: 'Sahlah bint Suhail came to the Messenger of Allah and said: 'O Messenger of Allah, I see (displeasure) in the face of Abu Hudhaifah when Salim enters upon me.' The Messenger of Allah said: 'Breast-feed him.' She said: 'He has a beard.' He said: 'Breast-feed him, and that will take away (the displeasure) in the face of Abu Hudhaifah.' She said: 'By Allah, I never saw that on the face of Abu Hudhaifah after that.'"

I believe that Mohammed is the Best example for Muslims to follow : if he meant direct breastfeeding of an adult man, should you ordinary Muslims change the order?

Explore2xmore:
Imaam Muslim narrated that Umm Salamah, the wife the Prophet used to say that all the wives of the Prophet disclaimed the idea of letting someone enter upon them through this kind of breastfeeding, and they said to ‘Aa’isha, “By Allah, we do not find this but a concession given by the Prophet only for Saalim, and no one is to enter upon us or see us through such breastfeeding.”

Finally,
Only the wives of Mohammed refused to breastfeed adults BUT Aisha commanded her sisters to do so.

Sunan Abi Dawud 2061
A’ishah wife of the Prophet(ﷺ) and Umm Salamah said “Abu Hudaifah bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah bin ‘Abd Shams adopted Salim as his son and married him to his niece Hind, daughter of Al Walid bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah. He (Salim) was the freed slave of a woman from the Ansar (the Helpers) as the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) adopted Zaid as his son. In pre Islamic days when anyone adopted a man as his son, the people called him by his name and he was given a share from his inheritance. Allaah, the Exalted, revealed about this matter Call them by (the name of) their fathers, that is juster in the sight of Allaah. And if ye know not their fathers, then (they are) your brethren in the faith and your clients. They were then called by their names of their fathers. A man, whose father was not known, remained under the protection of someone and considered brother in faith. Sahlah daughter of Suhail bin Amr Al Quraishi then came and said Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ), we used to consider Salim(our) son. He dwelled with me and Abu Hudhaifah in the same house, and he saw me in the short clothes, but Allaah the Exalted, has revealed about them what you know, then what is your opinion about him? The Prophet (ﷺ) said give him your breast feed. She gave him five breast feeds. He then became like her foster son. Hence, A’ishah(may Allaah be pleased with her) used to ask the daughters of her sisters and the daughters of her brethren to give him breast feed five times, whom A’ishah wanted to see and who wanted to visit her. Though he might be of age; he then visited her. But Umm Salamah and all other wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) refused to allow anyone to visit them on the basis of such breast feeding unless one was given breast feed during infancy. They told A’ishah by Allaah we do not know whether that was a special concession granted by the Prophet (ﷺ) to Salim exclusive of the people.

Here above is a much detailed and clearer hadith that explains the command of breastfeeding.

Note the verse deleted from the Qur'an highlighted in YELLOW!





Once again, I appreciate your honesty!

rolams:
I am telling you!

But the evidence is staring you glaringly on your face!
SMH!

Why did you chicken out!?

TenQ:
EVIDENCES

Who Deleted the verse of Adult Breastfeeding in the Quran?

Here you will see the reason why Muslims are reluctant to use the Quran of Mohammed or the Quran of Abu Bakr or the Quran of Uthman or their copies as the basis for the modern Quran: rather, they ignored all these to use a RECITATION of Hafs who lived 150 years after Mohammed and according to muslims a renown liar!

Note: All Quoted hadiths are Sahih (AUTHENTIC)

Facts:
1. The Almighty Allah revealed in the Quran verses where a Woman can Breastfeed a grown up man TEN and later FIVE times so that the man can become part of her family.

Sunan an-Nasa'i 3307: Book 26, Hadith 112
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
"One of the things that Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed" -(one of the narrators) Al-Harith said (in his narration): "One of the things that were revealed in the Qur'an"- "was that ten known breast-feedings make marriage prohibited, then that was abrogated and changed to five known breast-feedings. Then the Messenger of Allah passed away when this was something that was still being recited in the Qur'an."

Allah himself revealed the verse of breastfeeding in the Original Quran

2. Breastfeeding an adult less than FIVE times does not prevent marriage between the adult man and the woman who breastfeeds the man.

Sunan Ibn Majah 1940: Book 9, Hadith 96
It was narrated that Umm Fadl said:
that the Messenger of Allah said: “Breastfeeding once or twice, or suckling once or twice, does not make (marriage) unlawful.”

Meaning that Vanessa7 can lawfully suckle her husband's friend as long as it is not up to 5 or 10 times

3. The Verses of TEN or FIVE Breastfeeding was FRAUDULENTLY reported to be later abrogated (as it was a shameful practice as Islam expanded outside Arabia) but it wasn't truly abrogated by Allah.
Sunan Ibn Majah 1942: Book 9, Hadith 98
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“Once of the things that Allah revealed in the the Qur'an and then abrogated was that nothing makes marriage prohibited except ten breastfeedings or five well-known (breastfeedings).”

How do we know that the Verse wasn't Abrogated by Mohammed or Allah?

Sunan Ibn Majah 1944: Book 9, Hadith 100
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”

You will note that the Verses were NOT abrogated as at the time of the Death of Mohammed. The Question we want to ask Muslims is who abrogated this verse?

4. The Law of Breastfeeding Applies to Adult Males and not strictly Babies
Sunan Ibn Majah 1943: Book 9, Hadith 99
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“Sahlah bint Suhail came to the Prophet and said: 'O Messenger of Allah, I see signs of displeasure on the face of Abu Hudhaifah when Salim enters upon me.” The Prophet said: “Breastfeed him.” She said: “How can I breastfeed him when he is a grown man? The Messenger of Allah smiled and said: “I know that he is a grown man.” So she did that, then she came to the Prophet and said: “I have never seen any signs of displeasure on the face of Abu Hudhayfah after that.” And he was present at (the battle of) Badr.

Again before you.

Tell me this is untrue!

EVIDENCES

Who Deleted the verse of Adult Breastfeeding in the Quran?

Here you will see the reason why Muslims are reluctant to use the Quran of Mohammed or the Quran of Abu Bakr or the Quran of Uthman or their copies as the basis for the modern Quran: rather, they ignored all these to use a RECITATION of Hafs who lived 150 years after Mohammed and according to muslims a renown liar!

Note: All Quoted hadiths are Sahih (AUTHENTIC)

Facts:
1. The Almighty Allah revealed in the Quran verses where a Woman can Breastfeed a grown up man TEN and later FIVE times so that the man can become part of her family.

Sunan an-Nasa'i 3307: Book 26, Hadith 112
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
"One of the things that Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed" -(one of the narrators) Al-Harith said (in his narration): "One of the things that were revealed in the Qur'an"- "was that ten known breast-feedings make marriage prohibited, then that was abrogated and changed to five known breast-feedings. Then the Messenger of Allah passed away when this was something that was still being recited in the Qur'an."

Allah himself revealed the verse of breastfeeding in the Original Quran

2. Breastfeeding an adult less than FIVE times does not prevent marriage between the adult man and the woman who breastfeeds the man.

Sunan Ibn Majah 1940: Book 9, Hadith 96
It was narrated that Umm Fadl said:
that the Messenger of Allah said: “Breastfeeding once or twice, or suckling once or twice, does not make (marriage) unlawful.”

Meaning that Vanessa7 can lawfully suckle her husband's friend as long as it is not up to 5 or 10 times

3. The Verses of TEN or FIVE Breastfeeding was FRAUDULENTLY reported to be later abrogated (as it was a shameful practice as Islam expanded outside Arabia) but it wasn't truly abrogated by Allah.
Sunan Ibn Majah 1942: Book 9, Hadith 98
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“Once of the things that Allah revealed in the the Qur'an and then abrogated was that nothing makes marriage prohibited except ten breastfeedings or five well-known (breastfeedings).”

How do we know that the Verse wasn't Abrogated by Mohammed or Allah?

Sunan Ibn Majah 1944: Book 9, Hadith 100
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”

You will note that the Verses were NOT abrogated as at the time of the Death of Mohammed. The Question we want to ask Muslims is who abrogated this verse?

4. The Law of Breastfeeding Applies to Adult Males and not strictly Babies
Sunan Ibn Majah 1943: Book 9, Hadith 99
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“Sahlah bint Suhail came to the Prophet and said: 'O Messenger of Allah, I see signs of displeasure on the face of Abu Hudhaifah when Salim enters upon me.” The Prophet said: “Breastfeed him.” She said: “How can I breastfeed him when he is a grown man? The Messenger of Allah smiled and said: “I know that he is a grown man.” So she did that, then she came to the Prophet and said: “I have never seen any signs of displeasure on the face of Abu Hudhayfah after that.” And he was present at (the battle of) Badr.

ANTIlSLAM:
Bobo shey you won't answer that simplest question on earth abi?

They don't have an answer because the evidence cannot be refuted by the best of them.

They are all chanting
"I wish it would be a lie!" (Awusubilaii)

STRI1:
Wallohi I was just laughing out lot. Sincerely. He used an entire oare to make claim and reply himself. Kai. It is well oo

Me make a claim and reply myself?

How?

The claim were made from your Islamic literatures. And it proves that the Qur'an of Abu Bakr and the Qur'an of Uthman were suppressed.

If not, where are they?

STRI1:
Wallohi I was just laughing out lot. Sincerely. He used an entire oare to make claim and reply himself. Kai. It is well oo

And the whole Muslim Ummah was asked a simple question which non could answer without looking STUPID!

You have been Deceived by the greatest 419 in history : the stake is your Soul.

I invite you to ask Questions about the Messiah : He came for the purpose of your salvation.

Once a person enter the Fire of Hell, there is no coming out o! Unfortunately, Allah has promised you Hell Fire. Will you not take the Messiah seriously?

ANTIlSLAM:
They are very useless people, I don't know why the question is so difficult for them to answer

They know that there exist no sensible answer to the questions.
Their answers will definitely prove that their standard Islamic narratives are fraudulent

preciousee17:
The moment you realize your religion is all about SEX DRINKABLES (ALCOHOL) AND WORLDLY ENJOYMENTS , the better for you.

How can you day that Paradise is all about sex with virgins and alcohols flowing everywhere... Let's not forget the rivers flowing with milk and honey literally...
The ladies are really missing out on this paradise oo (well they may find dildos or something cos there's no male virgin for them)

Just take a Bible, replace every statement with a logically -opposite version. There it is, you have the Qur'an!

Brother TenQ I like this vawulence
Abeg reply this comment and mention all those Muslamic comrades again, maybe they didn't really see the other mentions

Ive called them both as individuals and as a group but they wouldnt explain the nor answer the question..

Who deleted the verse of breastfeeding of adult men from the Quran of Allah?

The truth of the answer is nauseating to them hence their show of silence.

If the Quran is perfectly preserved, how is their own literatures showing us evidence that the Quran was re-written at a later time?


How else does satan tempt men?
Is it not with pleasure and sex?
Here is Islam for you!

MightySparrow:
I hate to hate Muslims, but when the likes of Antichristian, who does not know his religion begin to criticize the Holy Bible. I have to expose, encourage to expose and to uncover the can of worms in Islam.


I wish all Muslims a good knowledge of Christ and His saving power.

It is not them o!
It is the spirit of Islam.

I try my best to separate the two. Muslims and the spirit of Islam working in them are two different entities.

Love the Muslims!
Hate the Spirit of Islam!!

MightySparrow:
Horsebands ( horse power) in Al -jaanah.


Good jumaat to our friends in Sexlam.

It is amazing when Muslims cannot see that they are being tempted with the mundane as satan usually does!

ANTIlSLAM:
Did you have problem with that? Or you will kuku name just one soul he killed with the sword so that I can give you 50 people your paedophile messenger sent to their early graves before he himself was executed like a mosque rat

Instead of answering basic simple questions, they are looking for ways not to answer it.

They could not answer the Question:
Who deleted the verse of breastfeeding of adult men from the Quran of Allah?

gaskiyamagana:
The same Jesus in Q5: 114 -118?

Did Mohammed copy the Bible verses too?