₦airaland Forum

Explore2xmore:
Ibn Ishaq started collection of tales like his transmitter father and came into collection of Hadith.

However, Ibn Ishaq was ordered to get out of Medina for relating a false Hadith from a woman, Faṭima bint al-Mundhir, wife of Hisham ibn Urwa.

Following the revelation of verses 53:19 and 53:20 of Surah Al Najam, Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza (53:19) And Manat, the third, the other?” (53:20), Ibn Ishaq transmitted the false tale that after these verses 53:19 and 53:20 of Surah Al Najam the next two verses, “These are the exalted intermediaries cranes” and “Whose intercession is to be hoped for” were originally revealed by Satan, and as soon as these verses were revealed the whole council of Arab pagans and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) prostrated to the deities al-Laat , Manat and Uzzah and their conflicts on religion were peacefully dissolved but the Angel of revelation Gabriel’s timely Interventions made the Prophet of Islam aware that these verses were not from Allah as Satan had revealed them. Then Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) instantly changed his point of view.

In other words Ibn Ishaq gave an impression that Satan is more powerful than Allah (Nauzubillah), who made and revealed his verses more efficiently before Allah Who was still managing to reveal His verses through His Angel Gabriel and left behind the Satan.

Explore2xmore:
If these verses were recited kindly provide a copy of the Quran where they exist

Explore2xmore:
Ibn Ishaq was the son of Yasar’s third son Ishaq, who was a transmitter of akhbar (news) and also used to collect and recount tales of the past.

Ibn Ishaq started collection of tales like his transmitter father and came into collection of Hadith.

However, Ibn Ishaq was ordered to get out of Medina for relating a false Hadith from a woman, Faṭima bint al-Mundhir, wife of Hisham ibn Urwa.

Hence, the false Hadith transmitter Ibn Ishaq left Medina and settled in Baghdad, where he found employment with Abbasids, who were establishing their new Capital in Baghdad having overthrown the Umayyad Caliphate. (“Ibn Isḥaḳ - Encyclopedia of Islam” and “The Making of the Last Prophet”- University of South Carolina).

Under Abbasid’s hands Ibn Ishaq wrote the earliest biography of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) namely “Sirat ar Rasul Allah” in which he brought doubts in the verses of the Quran, pressed lies on Allah, and accused Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) of fabricating Allah’s words.

The false Hadith transmitter Ibn Ishaq transmitted “Qissa Gharaniq” (the story of intermediary cranes) with reference to the verses of Surah Al Najam Chapter 53 of the Quran, in which he accused Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) of not distinguishing the verses of Allah and the verses of Satan and that the Prophet (pbuh) purposely fabricated Allah’s words to compromise with Arab pagans on the matter of intercession (Persian Shafaat “شفاعت”) through their deities Lat, Manat and Uzzah.

Will Ibn Ishaq be the only false hadith transmitter?

I refer you to the Quran then you decide to quote from places that are not secure from manipulation.

Explore2xmore:
The first pillar of Islam is belief.
Belief in Allah, his prophets, their books, heaven, hell, destiny and predestination.

The books mentioned here are the Torah, Zabur, Injil and Quran. No mention of hadith.

Wilgrea7:
I'll leave it at that for now on this subject.

PLEASE NOTE: I am not saying a god does not or cannot exist. As an agnostic, I'm more than open to the idea in the presence of sufficient proof.

However, the arguments often put forward, like the ones stated above, do nothing to support the existence of a god, as they could be used to justify other things in place of this "god"

I hope theists who use these sort of arguments can learn from them. I'll also be making reference to this thread whenever arguments like these are used in the future.

MaxInDHouse, Aemmyjah, TenQ, and other people I've forgotten to mention, please take note of these. Criticisms and opinions are of course always welcome.

Cybertroll:
TenQ
AdvanceDNA
MaxInTheHouse
Preciousee17
Maynman
DTruthSpeaker

rolams:

rolams:
Quote the verse na!

gaskiyamagana:
Poor reader with poor mind, poor understanding and poor interpretation, as poor defense of his and other hell bound Christians according to Q5:114-118.

gaskiyamagana:
Not me, it is other people who have time to explain to you what your beliefs, thinking and reasoning have been ROBOTICALY programed against. May be you forgot that I have said this many times. Mine is to hit you mildly or wildly with my fact-car , without apology, when you cross my faith road .

rolams:
Quote the verse na!

rolams:
Mr TenQ,
If I don't respond to all these filth you have been post here all these while, it is just because I have never and will never take you serious because the bad motive you have on these posts. But let me just tell you to stop quoting the Quran out of context. Below is the translation of the verse you quoted

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Q18 vs 86
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, “O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness.”
AMATUL RAHMAN OMAR
(18:86) So that when he reached (the land of) the setting of the sun, (the western most part of his empire,) he found it (- the sun) disappearing (as if) in a vast muddy pool of murky water (- the Black Sea), and close to it he found a certain people. We said, `Dhul-Qarnain! you may either punish (them) or treat them with kindness. (They being at your disposal.)´ see the file I attached here too

My fellow Muslim brother has explained but you failed to admit.

To your no 1 question: the setting of the rising and the setting of the sun here is used as a geographical location or map. Little understanding should have help you here.

Now Question 2: you should know that the man in question (Dhul-Qarnain) is a conqueror and those people he found at the extreme are at his liberty, they can't run away as there is an ocean there (somewhere around Cyprus). Allah given him the chance to decide on what to do. Is there anything special in that? If truly you are a good researcher and someone who really wants to learn, you should have gotten the details from tafsir ibn Kathir.

Just yourself a, try and go to a far sloppy distance close to the ocean and see if it won't look like the sun set in there.

rolams:
On Q24 vs 43: little understanding of Arabic would have rescue you from this error. My fellow brother has rightly answered you here. The metaphor here is clear, can't you use metaphor while making a statement? Allah is using the term for description. This word may mean frozen clouds which have been referred to as mountains in the heavens metaphorically. At the same time, it may also mean the mountains of the earth which stand high in the heavens and whose snow-capped peaks cause condensation in the clouds which results in hailstorms. See the translation attached here for better understanding. There are lots of tafsir you can read.

Is it compulsory for a whole sentence to be expressed metaphorically? No

rolams:
The satanic verse in the Quran: how can satan get close to prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) when the satan himself has confirmed that he can't near the believers. Allah has said in the Quran 15 vs 42 that satan has no authority over His servants. There are several verses of the Quran to disproof this. Read the reply here https://www.islamonline.net/en/alleged-satanic-verse/%3famp.

On the other issues raised, my lovely Muslim brother has answered you.
I really don't have time for all these but I just want to say this little.

rolams:
To proof this has been so difficult for you. Just quote the verse pls!

rolams:
Hmmm! I pray you see the light soon goodbye.

Truthday:
..

It's because Jesus is a murderer 😂😂😂😂🤣😹😅😧😂😂😂😂😂

rolams:
Yes. May Allah accept all our acts of ibadah.

Explore2xmore:
1. This verse doesn’t state the sun goes into a body of water, there are no implications of this at all.
If I tell you I found the sun setting in my basket ball net. Then what would you understand?
Will you fuss saying no science says .....
Or if I say the Sun is rising from behind the hills what will you understand?
If you do that i will put you with fools because this has nothing to do with science here but with how I personally saw the sun.

It looked like it was fading into that but not literally.

Explore2xmore:
2. Do you not see that Allah drives clouds? Then He brings them together, then He makes them into a mass, and you see the rain emerge from within it. And He sends down from the sky, mountains [of clouds] within which is hail, and He strikes with it whom He wills and averts it from whom He wills. The flash of its lightening almost takes away the eyesight

The preposition on the translation you have used is misplaced

Hence the confusion.
Mountains of clouds ..is used as a figure of speech used in similar fashion as “metaphor” in English language

Explore2xmore:
3. No.
https://www.al-islam.org/quran-and-hadith-sayyid-saeed-akhtar-rizvi/addenda-satanic-suggestion

Explore2xmore:
5. What Quran says on breastfeeding is here:
Al-Baqarah 2:233
Mothers may nurse [i.e., breastfeed] their children two complete years for whoever wishes to complete the nursing [period]. Upon the father is their [i.e., the mothers'] provision and their clothing according to what is acceptable. No person is charged with more than his capacity. No mother should be harmed through her child, and no father through his child. And upon the [father's] heir is [a duty] like that [of the father]. And if they both desire weaning through mutual consent from both of them and consultation, there is no blame upon either of them. And if you wish to have your children nursed by a substitute, there is no blame upon you as long as you give payment according to what is acceptable. And fear Allāh and know that Allāh is Seeing of what you do.

Unless you refer to what we trashed out on the claims to breastfeed men.

You do know Muhammad pbuh was mocked by the pagans as writing poetry.

gaskiyamagana:
Which hell?
Which fire?
I have said it sometimes ago and still repeating and reminding you and other Christians , dead, alive and unborn, that wasted in advance are your faith, deeds and doctrine as Jesus will disown you and hand you over to Allah to punish you for attributing many falsehood to him against ALLAH and Islam,Q5:14-18

Explore2xmore:
Jazakallahu bro. May he find some use. Interestingly he follows with more or repeated questions for reasons best known to him

Explore2xmore:
No you have not answered any of my questions.

1. Write out the exact verse or verses you allege were deleted.

2. Provide names of adult males breastfed with evidence. (Naming Salim alone is unacceptable)

You initially claimed a verse and I referred you to it with exact location.
You provided text for this verse.

Another which you lay claim of is entirely from hadith which is most questionable.

The normal practice forbidding marital relations between those who suckled from the same breast is clear.
Q4:23
Prohibited to you [for marriage] are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your father's sisters, your mother's sisters, your brother's daughters, your sister's daughters, your [milk] mothers who nursed you, your sisters through nursing, your wives' mothers, and your step-daughters under your guardianship [born] of your wives unto whom you have gone in. But if you have not gone in unto them, there is no sin upon you. And [also prohibited are] the wives of your sons who are from your [own] loins, and that you take [in marriage] two sisters simultaneously, except for what has already occurred. Indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.

As mischief makers are unable to corrupt the Quran they look to fabricated hadith as a way to achieve this

Answer my questions please or withdraw your claim.

gaskiyamagana:
....Falsified, altered and quoted out of content and context by unbelieving non muslims.

rolams:
Messiah mean the ANOINTED. By the way, what does this has to do with all these filth you are writing here and there?

gaskiyamagana:
Islamic theology l am referring you to is about one of your trivial questions that where did Allah and Jesus engage in Q5:114-118.
Go and read Chapters 5 and 19 of the Qur'an for understanding of Messiah in Islam.

rolams:
Pls stop responding to this person! He is not a seeker of knowledge or truth. He is only looking for a Muslim whom he can waste his/her time. No matter how hard you proof him wrong, he won't concur. Who knows, He may be Izang, korede or one of their boys. They always copy one of their members who claimed to have knowledge about Islam.

Bro. I can tell you that they have a published book on this lies they carry all around.

It was reported that they both gift one former pastor millions of naira and other valuables to denounce Islam and return to Christianity.

Explore2xmore:
Noted.
However you write about loopholes which bemuses me.

Quran 3:7 states:
(interpretation of the meaning of what Allah says):
“It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) the Book (this Qur’aan). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkaam (commandments), Al-Faraa’id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudood (laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allaah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord.” And none receive admonition except men of understanding”

What is meant here is that the Quran contains verses that are very clear and verses that are not entirely clear. The entirely clear verses (muhkam) are those which are clear and concerning which there is no confusion; this applies to most of the verses of the Qur’aan.
These verses are the “foundations of the Book”. As for the verses which are not entirely clear (mutashaabih) these are verses which may not be clear to some people, in exclusion to others. The scholars know them but the ignorant do not, and there are some which only Allaah knows.

Those who follow the truth refer the verses which are not entirely clear to the verses which are entirely clear, whereas those who follow deviation follow the verses which are not entirely clear, and they use the verses which are not entirely clear to contradict the verses which are entirely clear, for the purpose of creating confusion, distorting and misleading.

You make reference to the Prophet pbuh falling into the Satan's trap. This is very far from the truth so I refer you to:

https://www.al-islam.org/quran-and-hadith-sayyid-saeed-akhtar-rizvi/addenda-satanic-suggestion

And in conclusion do enjoy:


https://youtube.com/shorts/p6HgP7E1rPQ?feature=share

honesttalk21:
The pages which were compiled during the time of Caliph Abu Bakr were known as a mushaf. This word literally means a manuscript that is bound between two covers as a single volume. After Abu Bakr, this mushaf was transferred to Caliph Umar and stayed with him during his lifetime; later being transferred to his daughter Hafsa. As a matter of fact, this was not the first time the Revelation had been recorded. Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon, had himself done the same thing when he was alive. But, the difference between the two undertakings is that during the Prophet’s lifetime the Revelation had been written on sheets of various materials, whereas it was written and compiled between two covers during the period of Caliph Abu Bakr.

Did Uthman not request and borrow this Mushaf from Hafsah when standardizing the Mushaf in the Qureysh language?
Were the Mushaf not compiled on instruction of Abu Bakr?
Uthman did not 'rewrite' the Quran but saw to the unification of the compilation in only the Qureysh arabic.
I had previously informed that the Mushaf of Uthman was at Topkapı Palace in Turkey and the Museum of Turkish-Islamic Arts in Istanbul.

honesttalk21:
1. You obviously know the difference between Quran and Mushaf

2. Abu Bakr took on the monumental task of compiling all the seven harfs (modes of recitation) of the Quran.

Abu Bakr formed a delegation under the leadership of Zaid ibn Thabit, one of the leading scribes.

Abu Bakr constituted a delegation of 12 people which included Uthman ibn Affan, Ali ibn Abi Talib, Talha ibn Ubaydullah, Abdullah ibn Masood, Ubayy ibn Kab, Khalid ibn al-Walid, Hudhaifah and Saleem.
The copies of the Quran was recited to 33,000 companions at a general meeting.
There was no objection to the Quran read from the compiled Mushaf. Then this was sent to Umar ibn al-Khattab and was passed on to Hazrat Hafsah, the daughter of Umar and a wife of Prophet Muhammad.

honesttalk21:
A hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari states that the caliph Abu Bakr commanded Zayd ibn Thabit to compile the written Quran, relying upon both textual fragments and the memories of those who had memorized it.

honesttalk21:
Caliph Abu Bakr collected the Qur'an and wrote it in pamphlets and books in all its seven letters (the seven i.e. ways in which the Qur'an was revealed and which conform to the seven dialects of the Arabs at that time).

honesttalk21:
The prevalent view among people is that the one who collected the Qur'an was 'Othman, but they are wrong. 'Uthman compelled people to read [the Qur'an] in a uniform way on the basis of a selection which he agreed upon with the Muhajirun (Emigrants) and Ansar (Helpers) who were present at the time. He did this because he feared the outbreak of sedition as a result of the dispute between the people of Iraq and Syria regarding the "styles" (harfs) of the readings. Before this, several versions of the text existed, based on the seven harfs in which the Qur'an was revealed .

beautifulsoul12:
Good morning everyone. I have to create this account to post this.
I can't even sleep at night lately.

I'm so tired and I need help right now. I have been doing this all by myself for so long now, without much complain but now, I need help.
Before I got married to my husband, I didn't know he had a seasonal mental health challenge, but not violent.

......
What do I do?

gaskiyamagana:
....Falsified, altered and quoted out of content and context by unbelieving non muslims.

Explore2xmore:
You cannot allege something to be deleted if it is not properly identified. We have gone through hadith being a secondary source which may be unreliable.
Allah says he will protect the Quran not hadith. which the Prophet was not in support of its documentation.

You are quite obsessed with a fixation of a missing Quran of Abu Bakr. Is it different from others? Please explain how.

This Quran that has a sustainable link of being passed down through the following Caliph then to his daughter and was used by Uthman the Caliph after to produce Quran in Qureysh dialect.

Unlike now most people knew the Quran by heart.

Your 'sahih hadith' is a statement saying so. More evidence of proof is required so tell us the deleted texts and name other males other than Salim which is an exceptional case.

You are bantering not much other than hearsay unless you can bring on anyother proof.

gaskiyamagana:
-Truth from who?
-What are the sources of your truth?
- Bible of Jeremiah 8:8 quality?
-Fake and fabricated Hadiths?
-Lost but found QUR'AN?
-Islamic misguidance motivated web sites?
-Misinterpreted, misconception, misunderstood and misrepresented Islamic matter?
- Anti Islam Robotical reasoning?

Explore2xmore:
1. Write out the exact verse or verses you allege were deleted.

Explore2xmore:
2. Provide names of adult males breastfed with evidence.

Explore2xmore:
Abu Bakr did not burn his Quran but handed it over to Umar who handed it down to his daughter who was a wife of the prophet.

What he burnt were his collection of hadith and reason for this has been stated.