₦airaland Forum

Jones and Young taken off because of injuries.

elampiro:
There are three stats mainly:

1.*shots from outside the box
2. number of Passes per match
3. Dribbling

I told you you have to look at their over all seasons. Not one season.

However, whoscored had settled it all. I haven't time to go through this anymore.

Hahahahaha! Myth Busted! what overall seasons? You know this when you brought out isolated seasons and comparing Rooney`s 2011/12 season with RVP`s 2012/13 season. You deliberately avoided comparing the dribbling abilities of the two for the same 2011/12 season because you knew the stats won`t support you.

So, you have nothing to say to the key passes. Why would a hyena have more key passes than a midfielder or a number 10?

Shots taken from outside box has no major impact in goal striking efficiency because a significant proportion of such shots are wasted. There are so many midfielders that plays shots from outside the box with 90/95% of them not even going on target. Daron Gibson, Jonjo Shelvey, Coutinho etc comes to mind. How many of those shots results in goals?

elampiro:
1. Did tell a lie? RVP cannot run with the ball in his feet. That's why he's an hyena.

2. Free kicks add to goals na. The corners are mandated by coaches. However, we are talking about open play.

3. RVP has a low dribbling rate. Few touches of the ball and shoots close to the goal. How's not an hyena?

Do you know RVP once had 11 touches of the ball in 90 minutrs?

You call RVP a hyena because of the bold.

Now, in 2011/12 season when RVP was still at Arsenal as their top striker he had 1.1 successful dribble per match while Rooney who you said played from the midfield had 1 successful dribble per match. Meaning RVP as a top striker had more successful dribble than Rooney who played from the midfield as you always say. Who now has low dribbling skill and who is now the hyena?

Another interesting observation in that 2011/12 season was that RVP as the top striker for Arsenal created 2.4 key passes per game while Rooney whom you said played from the midfield or as a number 10 created 1.5 key passes which is lower than RVP. Who between the two was supposed to create more key passes? How can a hyena be creating more key passes than a supposed midfielder or number 10?

One more thing was that a supposed hyena had more assists than Rooney in that same year.

I know you'll come out with another twist as usual.

Happy birthday to SAF the greatest manager the EPL ever produced.

I can`t just understand this RVP is a 'hyena' of a thing. A hyena that has asissts and you said it`s because he stays in the box. He also said RVP`s level of hyena is higher than that of Chicharito and Inzaghi.

According to this logic, if RVP's hyena level is higher than that of Chicha and he`s able to have that much asissts. The question is `how many assists has Chicha in his playing career compared to RVP`s 2011/12 and 2012/13 seasons?` Just two seasons compared to entire playing career.

Using dribbling ability/skill as a characteristic features of who is not a hyena/poacher is really absurd.

I`ve already said it that he`ll use anything to discredit RVP purposely because of Rooney.

elampiro:
Who are you to say I shouldn't quote you? You have been insulting all these while and left you. Why won't someone in the box have Assists when everything falls on his feet for tap ins, rebounds and lay backs to team mates.

I am yet to see any stats which shows Van Persie won the league. He scored just 26 goals. In Arsenal he scored 30 and couldn't win the league for Arsenal. Suarez scored 31 goals and couldn't win the league for Liverpool. So how did 26 goals become a league winner while?


RVP was just an opportunists who rode on the solidity of United team to gain an EPL medal. If he didn't come we would have won the league with 100 points instead of 89 points because we had far less injuries than when we finished 89*points the previous seasons and De Gea and Welbeck had matured.

I`ve already proven that to you beyond reasonable doubt.
You must be a jester for saying we would`ve won the league with 100 points when your lord Rooney missed so many matches. Would he have been scoring while out with injuries or who would`ve scored in his place? I`m not surprised because you already said that Anderson gave us great results when he barely played 7 games in that season.

elampiro:
You're the one twisting it. I said RVP didn't win the league because we had a better results the previous season without him. He walked into a solid team ready to win the league baring injuries as DDG had matured, so with Welbeck.

Then I went further to to prove RVP didn't win the league, that we extended our lead between January and March winning 21 points in 8 matches even though RVP scored just one goal. Just imagine if we lost 5 of the matches RVP went dry. So he cannot be credited with winning the league.

I brought in Rooney to prove that he led the goals during that important period RVP had a drought. That doesn't mean he won all the matches. RVP too did not win all our matches prior to that period. I want to believe he didn't win us up to 30 points all season. I haven't done the calculations though. Yet we won the league with 89 points, same feet we achieved previously without him with better scoring form.

You placed so much importance on Rooney`s goals during RVP`s drought and i said even if Rooney didn`t score those goals there wouldn`t have been much difference because Man City also faltered during that time. We would`ve had 68 points while Man City would`ve been on 65 points.

Yes, we achieved the same feet as the previous season with better scoring form. But what about our defensive form? Did we also have a batter defensive form? You deliberately kept that away.How many goals were scored via penalty kicks to boost the goals in 2011/12 season?

elampiro:
What kind of analysis is this?

Was it only Rooney who scored during that period? What if we only maintained the 5 points lead or even did worse? Remember the argument is that RVP did not win the league. So when he didn't score, we won all virtually all out games? How many points there? 21 points we won when RVP scored one goal in 8 league games?

Twisting don start again o.
The argument was that RVP won the league for us in comparison with what Rooney as our leading scorer in the previous season would`ve offered us in 2012/13 season.

Otherwise, why did i highlighted when Rooney wasn`t available or not scoring?
Why were you bringing in Rooney`s argument? Why haven`t you made any argument for Giggs and others?
Why did you also brought up the issue of Rooney scoring during RVP`s drought?

How would we have done worst?

If we didn`t have RVP that season, we wouldn`t have been able to win the league.

Dadehmola:
I tire for the guy...

E be like say e dey purposely type all these nonsense just to annoy us..

The guy can cook up anything just to discredit any player to favour Rooney

elampiro:
OK.

We lost 5 points in three games between City and West Ham. If we didn't win previous fixtures when RVP didn't score, we would be second.

Secondly, my screen shot showed 8 Premier League matches, and 13 matches overall. When I did screen shot for Rooney matches I also included FA Cup and UCL. It's not a deceit. I was just trying to let everyone see the overall picture .

We wouldn`t have been in second. I have done the calculation for you to see that if we remove those games Rooney won for us during RVP`s drought we would still be at the top with 3 points lead because Man City lost 2 matches, drew 2 and won four. This will make Man Utd to have 68 points while Man City will have 65 points.

elampiro:
Do you pay attention to details at all? I said RVP scored 1 goal in about 8-9 league games and 13 matches overall in a period of about two months when we stretched out lead over City.

Why did you include Champions league and FA Cup matches? Were we talking about that? Did i include Rooney's Champions league and FA Cup matches? That is deceit.

Secondly, we dropped 8 points from our fixtures against City, Chelsea and West Ham.

This wasn't what you said earlier.

These are what you typed:

elampiro:
Tess1

I told you RVP scored 1 goal in 13 matches you said it's a lie. Now see the evidence.
Secondly, if Rooney had not led in goal scoring to extend our lead from 5 points in January to 15 points in March, Man City would have caught us easier than they did the previous City. Particularly when we lost to City and Chelsea in conservative fixtures, then drew against West Ham two weeks later. That's 8 points dropped, not to talk of the ones we could have dropped in previous matches.

Another quote from you:

We were only 5 points over City in January. In EPL 5 points lead in January is tantamount to being tied. We were 8 points above City the previous season in April and they recovered.
In 2011/13, if we didn't stretch the lead from 5 points in January to 15 points in March, City would have again recovered. This was the period of real stretch, not 1 points, 2 points, 5 points in December. Do you realize we lost 8 points in there consecutive matches, that's how our 5 points would have disappeared if Rooney had not helped with goals during the period RVP went dry.

You mentioned CONSECUTIVE.

The only game among these three fixtures was against Stoke. I had clarified earlier that we lost 8 points in four matches in row.

This is another lie. I've already said it that those two games were far apart. We had Stoke, West Ham, Aston Villa and Arsenal within the two games. They were not consecutive matches and there was nothing like losing 8 points in three consecutive matches as you have wrongly said. Don't you know the meaning of consecutive?

elampiro:
Tess1

I told you [b]RVP scored 1 goal in 13 matches you said it's a lie. Now see the evidence.

Secondly, if Rooney had not led in goal scoring to extend our lead from 5 points in January to 15 points in March, Man City would have caught us easier than they did the previous City. Particularly when we lost to City and Chelsea in conservative fixtures, then drew against West Ham two weeks later. That's 8 points dropped, not to talk of the ones we could have dropped in previous matches. . [/b]

Can you people imagine this? We are talking about EPL matches, elampiro is lumping both FA Cup matches and Champions league into it. Is this a deliberate act to deceive or is it that he can't see properly. Please look at the attachment file very well. This guy should be using a Binocular.

What is conservative fixtures? If you meant to type consecutive fixtures, then you don't know the meaning of consecutive fixtures because these two fixtures had four fixtures within and West Ham is one is one of the games. This guy needs to go back to school.

We can now see who is really struggling. I am done.

elampiro:
I have since won this argument. You're struggling really. I answered your questions again and again.

Won what? That's very childish. Your answer would've given you F9 in a comprehension passage because you didn't answer the question.

We were only 5 points over City in January. In EPL 5 points lead in January is tantamount to being tied. We were 8 points above City the previous season in April and they recovered.
In 2011/13, if we didn't stretch the lead from 5 points in January to 15 points in March, City would have again recovered. This was the period of real stretch, not 1 points, 2 points, 5 points in December. Do you realize we lost 8 points in there consecutive matches, that's how our 5 points would have disappeared if Rooney had not helped with goals during the period RVP went dry.

Which one is Real stretch and which one is Fake stretch? Is there any thing like Real stretch? English Language na problem o. A stretch is a stretch. Those 1 point, 2 points and 5 points are called what? Fake stretch?

Man City wouldn't have been able to recover those points because they too were not in form. The lost two games, drew two and won four. Let's even remove the games that Rooney won for us during that period which was nine points. Four games were won without Rooney's goal being the deciding goal. That means we gained 12 points while Man City gained 14 points. This means that we would have had 68 points while Man City would've had 65 points before RVP started banging in the goals.

We lost 8 points in three consecutive matches? Meaning that we only drew one match out of three consecutive matches. I'll like to know those consecutive matches. Don't dodge this one again o.

elampiro:
You have answered this already. You already said we were 5 points ahead of City in January 2013. What you failed to understand is that were 15 points clear two months on from that time.

I didn't answer any question. I knew you won't answer the question because you know it will make nonsense of your argument and statement.

Man Utd was first moved on top of Man City on the 24th Nov. 2012 with one point after we won 3 - 1 against QPR at Old Trafford while Man City drew against Chelsea. From this date no other team topped Man Utd till the end of the season.

On the 1st Dec. 2012, Man Utd stretched/extended their lead against Man City by two points (three points lead) after Man Utd beat Reading 4 - 3 away. RVP scored in this particular match which responds to your statement that RVP was not involved in goalscoring when we stretched out lead over Man City.

On the 9th Dec. 2012, Man Utd went away to Etihad Stadium and defeated Man City 3 - 2. RVP also scored in this game and Man Utd extended their lead by three points (six points lead) at the top of the league. This also condemn your statement that RVP was not involved in goalscoring when we stretched out lead over Man City.

On March 16th when Rooney again scored a late goal to send us 15 points clear at the top of the league in a difficult game against Reading we didn't deserve to win after Everton beat City 2-0

And what was the importance of this match if we had drawn it when we were already twelve points ahead of Man City? And you already said Man City lost their corresponding fixture 2 - 0 to Everton.

At that point when Rooney came back, he was riding on the lead that RVP had made Man Utd established at the top of the table.

As a matter of fact, Man City lost two games, drew two games and won four games gaining fourteen points out of available twenty four points during RVP's drought.

Van Persie was on a goals drought. He only scored 1 goal in our two nil win over Everton during that period. That's about two months
Van Persie went on about 9 league games scoring 1 goal (1 goal in about 13 matches overall).

This is another BIG FAT LIE.
RVP's goals drought was between 30th January and 8th April 2013 which was eight-match stretch, not 13 as you have lied. RVP scored five goals in the last seven games after the drought. Your god Rooney played in four of these games and scored ZERO goals. Was that how we would've won the league?

elampiro:
You clearly told us we were just 5 points above City in January which was easy to recover or regain. Then RVP went dry from that period. When RVP didn't score we didn't lose matches to drop to 2nd place, instead we started winning more to stretch the lead over them until we find ourselves in an unassailable lead position. So how did RVP win the league?

I don't think you realized that at some point we were 13-17 points above City before they recovered some points towards the end. I will need to week by week table adjustment to explain it better.

You can see how you confirmed my statement.

A simple question that just needs a simple sentence and you are writing an epistle. All these still doesn't answer the question.

Your statements

RVP didn't score when we extended our lead over City at the top of the league.

RVP was not involved in goalscoring when we stretched out lead over Man City

"At what point did Man Utd extend/stretch their lead over Man City in 2012/13 season?

Or better still, when did Man Utd go on top of Man City before extending their lead over them?

elampiro:
You just corroborated my stance that RVP didn't score when we extended our lead over City at the top of the league.

On 20th January our lead was cut to 5 points according to your analysis. When Rooney returned and started scoring we extended our lead to an unassailable situation over City. I am sure we were 15 points over City at some time - the time RVP went on a long goals drought.

This was what i highlighted in your first post which is the same with what you posted in you latest post.

RVP was not involved in goalscoring when we stretched out lead over Man City

I don't think you understand what you posted.

I wouldn't have responded to this your latest post because i already said i won't, knowing that you'll come up with another twist but i decided to because it's my son who is also a Man Utd fan who first saw and read this your response. He then came to me to ask me this simple comprehension question that "At what point did Man Utd extend/stretch their lead over Man City in 2012/13 season that RVP wasn't scoring? Was it at the time they added point(s) to their first lead at the top over Man City or after they had established and maintained the lead over Man City at the top for sometime?" I then asked for the reason for his questions. He then told me that i should come and read your response to my post.

After reading your post, i laughed and laughed and laughed. I am now asking you the same question;"At what point did Man Utd extend/stretch their lead over Man City in 2012/13 season?"

Answer the question the way you would've answer if you were answering a comprehension passage in WAEC examination and let fellow fans here give you a grade for your answer.

igbsam:
Rooney is done believe u me!

No need quoting statistics, debating and arguing over him. Dude is living his past glory.

Abeg make una no use rooney matter dey increase pages of this thread again.

Some of us have been seeing this since three years ago. He wasn`t supposed to be given the five years contract he got from Moyes.

dopeJemi:
[size=28pt]HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME

Love y'all so much, it's been a wonderful journey
Thanks . See y'all on Tuesday by God's grace[/size]

Happy birthday to you. Wish you many more prosperous years ahead.

elampiro:
RVP was not involved in goalscoring when we stretched out lead over Man City. It was Rooney who led in goal scoring in the run in to the title. So the argument that when we went on top we didn't come down again is null and void. See the chart below which showed RVP going on a long drought in the run in. He only returned to scoring form on the day we were crowned Champions.

The bold is another BIG FAT LIE. How did RVP not involve in goal scoring when we stretched out our lead over Man City? Please pay attention.

* On the 3rd Nov. 2012, Man Utd played Arsenal. Man Utd won 2 - 1 with RVP scoring the opening goal, Evra scored the second goal. Your gos Wayne Rooney even missed a penalty that would've made the score 2 - 0. This result put us at the top of the league for the first time in that season.

* On the 17th Nov. 2012, we were back at second after losing away to Norwich by 1 - 0. Man City was back at the top.

* On the 24th Nov. 2012, Man Utd played QPR at old Trafford and won by 3 - 1 with Evans, Fletcher and Chicha scoring. Rooney and RVP didn't score. We were back at the top leading Man City by two points at the end of this date.

* On the 28th Nov. 2012, Man Utd won played against West Ham and won 1 - 0 with the only goal by RVP. Your god Rooney didn't score. We were still at the top but by one point.

* On the 1st Dec. 2012, Man Utd went away and beat Reading 4 - 3 with two goals from Rooney, one from Anderson and the final goal from RVP. We were still at the top with an extended three points over Man City.

* On the 9th Dec. 2012, Man Utd went away to Etihad Stadium and defeated Man City 3 - 2 with two goals from Rooney and the winning goal by RVP in added time. We all remember this match very well. After this match, we extended our lead by six points over Man City.

* On the 15th Dec. 2012, Man Utd played Sunderland at Old Trafford and won 3 - 1 with goals from RVP, Cleverley and Rooney. We still maintained our six points lead over Man City.

* On the 23rd Dec. 2012, Man Utd went away to Swansea and drew 1 - 1 with the goal by Evra. Our lead at the top was reduced to four points. Rooney played

* On the 26th Dec. 2012, Man Utd played Newcastle at Old Trafford and won 4 - 3 with goals from Evans, Evra, RVP and Chicha. We extended our lead at the top to seven points. Rooney not available

*On the 29th Dec. 2012, Man Utd played West Brom at Old Trafford and won 2 - 0 with an own goal by WBA player and the second by RVP. We still maintained our seven points lead at the top. Rooney not available

* On the 1st Jan. 2013, Man Utd went away to Wigan and won 4 - 0 with a brace from both Chicha and RVP. Seven points lead still maintained. Rooney not available

* On the 13th Jan. 2913, Man Utd played Liverpool at Old Trafford and won 2 - 1 with goals by RVP and Vidic. Seven poits lead still maintained. Rooney not available

* On the 20th Jan. 2013, Man Utd went away to play Tottenham and drew 1 - 1 with a goal by RVP. Our lead was cut to five points. Rooney not available

So how was RVP not involved in the goal scoring when we stretched our lead over Man City? I have been able to show to everybody that RVP got heavily and actively involved in taking us to the top of the league and making sure we were there for a long time even when Rooney was missing. Rooney came back to maintain what RVP was able to do for about thirteen games. If we didn't have RVP in those games Rooney was not available, what would've happened? Your guess is as good as mine.

RVP didn't score in only five games after his last goal in that my analysis but scored in five of the the last five games of the season.

RVP scored only 26 goals. His 30 goals at Arsenal only got Arsenal to struggle into top 4. Suarez scored 30 goals with great goals from solo effort sef, yet Liverpool couldn't win the league. RVP is just an opportunist hyena who cope individual stats at the expense of the team.

Rooney is the greatest OPPORTUNIST who saw the naivety/stupidity and MAGA in both David Moyes and Ed Woodward to increase his pay when his performance was already nosediving.

I mentioned Anderson because he and Cleverly started thee league and we were beating everything that came our way from preseason up till they injured together with Jones, Evans, Smalling who set up a formidable defence and midfield with quick feet. We beat Barca, Man City, Tottenham 3-0, Arsenal 8-2, Bolton 5-0, Chelsea 3-1. Injuries ruined the party as defenders and midfielders became injured. Carrick and Fletcher became a defender in some matches, Rooney a midfielder in some. Despite this we finished 89 points while scoring a whopping 89 goals.

So you didn't know that Anderson played only 690 mins before you said that Anderson gave RESULTS in that season.

I know you'll still come out with another twist but no more comment from me.

elampiro:
All these do not make sense.

Did Van Persie make us to score more goals? No.

Did Van Persie made us to win more points? No.

Did Van Persie made us to win more matches? NO.

Logic says United would surely have done better without Van Peter. You mentioned we threw away leads in 2011/2012, did we not also lost matches in 2012/2013.

2011/2012 United won 28, drew 5, lost 5. POINTS 89. Scored 89 goals. GD +56

2012/2013 United won 28, drew 5, lost 5. Points 89. Scored 86 goals. GD +43



2011/2012, we had our worst injury crisis in the club with half of the team injured. De Gea was new and committing blunders, Welbeck was a new striker. We could easily have finished with 100 points. We would never have lost against Blackburn at Old Trafford if SAF did not punish Rooney. The fear factor was removed from a depleted team and Blackburn believed they could get a result. Also SAF resting Scholes at Newcastle when he was the most regular midfielder.

Fact remains that RVP made us win the league title. Yes, we lost matches in 2012/13 season but the moment we got to the top of the league we never came down till the end of the season. Unlike the previous season when we were at the top with 8 points gap only to squander the lead and lose the title.
100 points or what did you type? When we even had a very good team we didn`t garner 100 points.
What is the guaranttee that if Rooney was in the Blackburn match we would`ve won when he couldn`t even score to give us a draw against Wigan that had lost all its previous matches to us since their last promotion not to even talk of winning?
Do you even remember that it was this same Rooney that Maloney evaded before shooting to score the only goal?

It`s now SAF resting Scholes, not Anderson giving us great results with 690mins again. How would we have won the league in the following season when this same Scholes wasn`t there again?

elampiro:
You're are supporting my stance. RVP did better at Arsenal but they never reached 89 points, I doubt if they ever reached 80 points sef.

2011/2012
We scored more goals than 2012/2013
We had a far more superior goals difference.
We reached 89 points in both seasons
We had same number of wins - 28
We had same number of draws - 5

All these are stories. We had superior goals difference that couldn't win us the league but lost it on goal difference. What is the essence of such superior goals difference? Or do they award trophy/award for superior goals difference. The fact remains that SAF bought RVP because he didn't want to ever lose the trophy on goals difference again and RVP ensured we won by points. He ensured we won it with games left.

This we achieved with a high injury to the team in 2011/2012. We had a new goalkeeper. We had a new striker playing his first full season in EPL - Welbeck. Yet we did had better results.

So without RVP we achieved better results in 2011/2012. RVP and Kagawa actually came to distort our free attacking movement from the deep which gave us better goals margin in games, not yeye slim victories the hyena introduced. Valencia - Nani - Rooney - Welbeck - Chicharito - Anderson gave us great results in 2011/12 despite the injuries and we finished with 89 points with a whopping +56 goals difference, scoring 89 goals.

RVP and Kagawa distorted our free attacking movement from the deep and we won the league. I'll always love those kind of player in my team provided i'll always win the league with such distortion.

If Rooney had given us those yeye slim victories against Chelsea, Newcastle, Wigan and others to win the league by points but not losing it by superior goals difference to Man City, SAF wouldn't have gone to buy RVP.

We were able to get that 89 points in 2011/12 season because SAF gave us a surprise January gift by bringing a certain Paul Scholes out of retirement to come and rescue the season for us when all things were not going well. This gave us a good chance to even compete for the title to the level of losing it by superior goals difference. Otherwise, we wouldn't amass the 89 points that you are even stressing and comparing with 2012/13 season. I could remember one of his goal against Norwich City that we won 2 - 1.

You also said we would've won the league without RVP because players like Welbeck, Chicha, Anderson were there but you failed to realize that Paul Scholes who influenced our game the previous season became a bit part of the team in the following season because of injuries and his bad tackles.

Were Rooney and co not there when we were leading Man City at a certain point in the season by 8 points only to lose to a Wigan team in relegation zone, threw away a 3 -1, 4 - 2 lead to draw with Everton at Old Trafford and went ahead to lose the three points we had over Man City to Man City at Etihad by 1 - 0. Are these the same players you expected us to rely on to win the league for us in 2012/13 season? Abeg!

Anderson gave us great results in 2011/12? Do we have two players bearing Anderson at Utd at that time? Or is it the same Anderson that played only 690 mins throughout the season that you are talking about? How did a player who didn't start more that 8 games give us great results in the whole season? I need to know the Anderson you're talking about if he's different from this one.

This is disgraceful! I hope this isn`t the beginning of the regular syndrome.
Only time will tell.

elampiro:
Na wao! *RVP worshippers. So RVP goals won 9 matches and you said he won us the league?

If checked RVP's goals for Arsenal and how they influenced their results you would realize you're just an RVP worshipper. Also try Suarez at Liverpool. RVP is an opportunists who walked into a team that always going to win the league haven lost it in added time of the last match of previous season, even with better performance.

Shago! I hear you o, Rooney`s worshipper. Better performance that wasn`t better than making us second on the league. That is your own definition of better. Arsenal have been playing better football since God knows, what has it won them? SMH.

SIRcumalot:
We've been lucky to know one manager for more than twenty years, but I don't see this attacking football style as our philosophy infact I see a lot of similarity between jose and SAF.

Attacking philosophy is "Arsenals way" Wenger's Arsenal used to play better football than we. Could ever hope for and for awhile rivaled Barcelona for "most fun team to watch"
(No wonder they swap players back and forth)
Wenger lived and mostly died playing that way.
Man utd on the other hand are very pragmatic(which is the one word that describes Jose best)
We adapt to whatever play style get us the WIN you just have to watch an Old gunners VS utd game to see what I mean.
I hope you understand that the time it takes for us to establish this said blueprint we're slowly on our way to becoming Liverpool.

Man Utd`s way is attacking football and that`s why you hear the fans shout "attack! attack!! attack!!!". Man Utd under SAF use wing play, midfield play with quick transition of the ball to attack teams until they score. We do keep possession but not as excessive as now and not as much as Arsenal. That`s the reason why SAF always go for traditional wingers. It is always all action packed.

Arsenal on the other hand is more of possession football but not as much as Barca.

SIRcumalot:
We couldn't counter successfully because Norwich ceded control and gave us possession our lack of inventiveness in the final third killed us in all three games

I think all the shuffling of the team is too accomodate rooney do you all think Giggs have the balls to bench rooney ?

When I mentioned that we can't attack or defend I meant this team.
We deluded ourselves into believing we had a strong defense when our conservative approach covered our lapses, in must win games when we actually go gung ho (at least as can be expected by these team) we leaked goals at the back.

I really don't want to start defending LVG like I said earlier the man has is fault but maybe their is some method to the madness.

We couldn`t counter successfully because of our slow build up play. There were times should have but the players prefer to still move the ball around which gives Norwich players time to regroup and this isn`t happening for the first time.

If he`s not ready to bench Rooney, why not play him behind Martial instead. Martial is our only reliable source of goal upfront

What do you expect of a defence that doesn`t have a proper DM? Schneiderlin was on the bench in the last two games that we lost. Was it that he`s not fit? If he`s not fit against Bournemouth, what about against Norwich?

During the Bournemouth game, Fellaini was a likely source of levelling the match, he removed him and brought in Powell who did nothing throughout his 16 mins plus on the pitch.

Too many wrong decisions by him.

Have we ever thought of the reasons why players are turning against Mourinho? It happened at Madrid and now Chelsea.

The way he handled Eva issue is very immature to me. Choosing to blame a physio that went to attend to a player that`s down on the pitch. Blaming everybody when things weren`t going well with the team.

One day he`ll just blame Ed for buying the wrong player for him.

I don`t even like his personality. He shouldn`t come and cause disunity among the players.

MrLouisVanGaal:
That explains the outrageous formations, tactics and substitutions where Herrera and Schneiderlin sit on the bench and flops like Rooney come back from injury and jump in. LVG nor sabi..He is not even good at the slow build up play. I am glad you agree Giggs will want to go for the kill, you score 4, i score 6 or 7...atleast teams will know they will not have time to settle before united come on the counter. These days when we counter defenders can go eat, hang out and return to continue the match. Awful build up play.

And that`s exactly why Leicester is at the top of the table, scored 37 goals and conceded 24 goal with "If you score me, i score more" football. They`ve only kept three clean sheets.

SIRcumalot:
I don't want to start defending LVG.

Since the wolfsburg UCL game we've not played the slow building up game we're know for (our average possession in all these games will suggest otherwise)
and we've lost all those games.
If giggs learned anything from SAF, na to win at any cost. Our team can only either defend or attack can't do both.

It`s still the same slow build-up play. Against Norwich, we had about 70% possession with about 150 backward passes. If there wasn`t slow build-up play, why couldn`t the team counter attack successfuly while Norwich did on regular basis? We had only 11 shots with 2 on target while Norwich had 6 with 4 on target.

Why did he put Herrera on the bench when he knew he`ll still bring him on as a sub? Schneidelin was also on the bench with to protection for the back four and playing Fellaini and Carrick together when there are other options.

He also moved Martial to the right when he`s supposed to be leading our attack. When is the guy going to get used to playing as our top striker? When is there going to be a good understanding between him playing as a striker and other players playing around him? Shuffling him now and then isn`t going to help him and the team.

Was there no times when defended and attacked well during the same season under SAF? What about the period when Van Da Saar had the longest time of consecutive clean sheets?

SIRcumalot:
Forgive me for misinterpreting that giggs quote.

Pep,for all the crap I say about is one of a kind, in his autobiography he already had Rijkaard job but he said he would wait a year to test his foot balling style in the lower league before handling the first team who does that ?

Maybe better than Moyes,but not LVG. Giggs should leave utd for awhile gain some experience as long as he is in this assistant Manager role the next Coach go dey watch him back.
His action in our last game won't make any manager comfortable at all.

So you mean Giggs will be playing this docile and slow possession build up that is killing out attacking instinct? He`ll also be playing players out of positions! Will be benching important players and making regular wrong substitutions?

I don`t think so. Giggs is a product of pure attacking football.

Our team is now a victim of the counter-attacking football we do to other teams in the past.

Leyqute:
Your opinion is deadly. Giggsy handled the team after Moyes left and there wasn't much difference. We shouldn't be too quick to thrust him into the spot. He needs some coaching experience first, not an assistant coaching one.

Deadly? So you expected him to win all the four matches after Moyes` sack when all morales were down.
Where has LVG`s experience gotten us? I believe he should be ready now.

SIRcumalot:
@tess1
I doubt Moyes would've admit to not being capable I would appreciate a link.

How is our youth team performing ? are they dominate the youth league or just treading water if the next manager is too Mirror Pep's rise.
Trust me Giggs handling the club now isn't good for anybody or else LVG will already get the axe.

I didn`t say Moyes said so but Giggs.

We don`t have the kind of youth set up as they have in Spain where a B team can also patticipate in the lower division. Pep only coached the B team for a year in the fourth division before being appointed the Manager of Barca. What kind of experience would he have gained there? If he wasn`t appointed the then, he would`ve still been the youth manager and wouldn`t have had the chance to prove what he can do.

Just like i said earlier, it is of my opinion that Giggs and Butt wouldn`t have been worst that Moyes and LVG if given the opportunity now.

I`ll prefer us taking that gamble on Giggs. He can`t be worst than Moyes and LVG. He knows the way we`ve played for so long (attacking football). He must have learnt some things from SAF over the years.
When Moyes was sacked, he was honest enough to say he wasn`t ready to take up the role of the manager of the team and that he still needs some other things to learn.
We also have Nicky Butt who has been the youth coach for like three years now. Nicky butt is also a Man Utd bred. Combination of the two isn`t going to be worst than what we have right now.

The only fear i had for Giggs before was how to handle transfers. Now i believe he should be experienced in that after paticipating in 2/3 tranfer windows.

This team only needs players being played in their proper position and buying/promoting more players to make the team large again to take care of injuries.

This slow build up possession is part of the problem of the team. Players need to move the ball quicker and faster than we do right now.

It`s my opinion.